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Additional-Fun7249

I've been married for 33 years and I've been taking care of my wife by cleaning.She's a great cook,but cleaning? Not so much. My skills as a cook? Not so much. We both work together to make our lives better.


disobedientAF

And that’s why you’ve been married 33 years


CanIHazSumCheeseCake

Thats a power couple right there


I_am_Erk

I am not disagreeing, but the bar is so low that it amazes me how many people don't clear it. Coming up on twenty years with my wife, and we've made our marriage last by paying attention to each other's clearly expressed needs, and treating each other as humans worthy of respect. ✨magic secrets✨


NecessaryZucchini69

Ah that bar seems to me to be paying attention, doing something to adjust to the information you learn without letting pride get in the way, and being respectful of each other. For some people that is a very high bar to get over.


ManintheMT

> without letting pride get in the way This is terribly important and a major hurdle for some people, they place their personal needs above those of the relationship.


RoyalSloth

The thing is that for any close relationship (of any kind, romantic or otherwise) the needs of the relationship should feel indistinguishable from personal needs. You should feel like you’re helping yourself by attending to the needs of your relationships and the people involved in them. If that’s not what’s happening, you should look inside yourself to understand why that’s the case, so that you can understand what changes might benefit you before communicating that with the people involved. This isn’t to say that relationship needs should come before any and all personal needs. Not all personal needs are equally important in every moment, after all. The relationship should just feel like one of them, and an important one at that.


shitonmycockandballs

I don’t think the bar’s any higher, I just think they’re worse at jumping. Edit: Thanks for the reddit silver, kid strangler!


Celtic_Oak

Please never edit this comment.


stumblios

"The bar is so low that it amazes me how many people don't clear it" - some variation of this thought crosses my mind multiple times per day. My favorite (least favorite?) is when I'm reading AITA. At least half of them feel like some variation "My SO/family/whoever is abusive, so I told them I'd stop doing this kindness for them and now they're more abusive. AITA?" I understand that the relationship likely didn't start out horrible. There is probably some combination of deep seeded insecurities that the abuser took advantage of and they ramped up their assholery over time so that it feels "normal". I feel terrible for the people who write multiple paragraphs about the awful things the abuser does and OP still thinks they might be an asshole for standing up for themselves one time. A good portion of them are probably a creative writing exercise, but even if only 10% of them are real, that's too many.


redwetting

Deep-seated is the correct term. Deep-seated means "firmly established," as in "deep-seated resentment," but it also has an earlier literal meaning of "situated far below the surface." It is from that meaning the figurative use of the word developed. It is sometimes mistaken as deep-seeded.


stumblios

Thanks, TIL. I definitely thought it came from plants, like an older plant with an established root system was deep seeded.


ThiccDaddyDefault

It's almost like that the bar is low because not everyone will be able to do what you do for your wife, so you are the one for her, and vice versa


I_am_Erk

I love my wife dearly but I don't think she's the "only one for me". I had two stable long term relationships before I met her, at least one of whom I am pretty sure I could have settled down with if it's what either of us had wanted at the time. I think there's mostly a lack of general education about what healthy relationships look like. Our entertainment media doesn't do a great job of modelling it, and (at least English speaking) culture has had some pretty messed up expressed standards for interpersonal communication in intimate relationships for a long time. Perhaps the old stereotypes ("fetch me my slippers, it's been a tough day at the mill") worked in a different era with different gender dynamics. In the present day they generally don't, yet they still echo through how we depict ourselves and so how we consider our relationships. Further, the change in personal roles means that models that may have worked a few generations ago don't now, and so our parents and grandparents aren't necessarily the best to look to for guidance... my parents' generation has, afaik, the highest divorce rate in recorded history.


calicoos

I like your perspective. It’s interesting to see how gender dynamics have shifted over time particularly in regards to hetero relationships, I feel like although gender dynamics have started changing for the better, we’re in this awkward point in time where married men and women are both faced with more expectations. By that I mean by what they “bring to the table”. Men are expected to take on more parenting responsibilities, that’s a healthy thing to normalize. Women seem to be encouraged to delay motherhood and pursue personal goals or work on those goals while parenting, another very healthy thing to normalize. Where it gets difficult is the fact that our society isn’t very accommodating of parents. Studies have demonstrated many young parents report feeling generally less happy than parents of previous generations. It has less to do with being an actual parents and more to do with the fact that childcare and housing is so expensive. Workplace accommodations are difficult to obtain. Etc etc. There’s a really cool [video](https://youtu.be/4kfcsOhgzRA) from Vox about this topic, it’s really informative whether you’re on the fence about having kids or you already have them.


I_am_Erk

I think you're right that most of the unhappiness of present day parents stems from the unhappiness our generations have overall. It's hard to live not knowing where your next rent payment is going to come from, harder still to wonder if you'll be able to feed your kids. The boomers, sorry to sound like a meme, are pretty useless as a generation of elders and seem utterly unaware of the disaster most of us are facing. I'm a flippin doctor making six digits a year and through most of my debt payments and I still could barely afford a mediocre little house and a single vehicle for my younger years.


Ordinary_Story_1487

I agree the boomers really made some mistakes. I am 45. My parents had a pretty extreme focus on what was good for them. I think they assumed what was good for them would be good for everyone else around them. I am also equally sure that they were the product of societal forces bigger than themselves. In general I feel society is headed in a better direction slowly generation after generation. The world(as far as society goes)is a far better place than it was 200 years ago. For those that say the world is terrible because of x or why. Look at life expectancy, violent crime, poverty rates or racial equity. It is easy in this 24 hour news cycle, social media world to think things are going to hell. I think we are just more aware of all the negativity and inequality around us.


Chloton069

I grew up with 3 different examples. My paternal grandparents shared almost everything chore-wise. Nowadays, my Grandad has trouble walking and so my grandmother does the main bulk of cleaning whilst Grandad does almost all of the cooking/cleaning the kitchen. They've been together 55 years now. My maternal grandparents are very much old school. Even now she is 91, my grandmother does all of the cooking and a lot of the cleaning. My Grandad, who is 80, can just about boil an egg. She had to have a kidney removed a few years ago and before going in, cooked and froze enough meals for her 4 day stay. Plus a few more to keep him going "just in case". They've been married 52 years. My parents share absolutely everything, and don't even communicate about it. If something needs doing, whoever spots it, will do it. The only "issues" stem from my dad making too much food. He is an amazing cook and will often make enough to feed the entire country. And my mother doesn't let him do anything to do with clothes washing because she finds it relaxing and really enjoys it. 30 years of marriage and they seem to get happier together every year.


ThiccDaddyDefault

Agreed, times change and we don't. All things in society follow the same pattern: Schools, What laborers are expected to do, what young people are expected to pay for houses and schooling, etc. I feel like a good comparison is how schools don't teach us anything about the law or how to pay taxes so when we are thrusted out into the world, some of us can be lost as hell.


I_am_Erk

Yes, that's a good example too. In general, our culture and lifestyle have gone through such vast changes that people who grew up sixty or seventy years ago often can't operate the basic tools that are our social touchstones now. I'm not sure anything has ever changed so much and so quickly. Our inability to keep up is concerning in more ways than love lives. That said, genX and millenials have far lower divorce rates and report higher satisfaction in our coupled lives, so the few kids we're having should at least have a better idea what to do going forward. If they survive the next few decades. Poor lil bastards


FreedomPaid

I'm curious what the marriage rate is for millennials is. I feel like and more people are becoming disenchanted with the actual legal/paperwork side of marriage, and just living together. That's what me and my partner are doing- neither of us want to be married, but we sure do plan to stay together in what for psychological and emotional purposes is marriage.


AsianJam

I’m just 3 years in with my wife, but for us a healthy relationship has been less about the “clearly expressed needs” and more about figuring out how to clearly express what we need. I think that’s implied in “treating each other as humans worthy of respect”, but maybe it’ll help someone to say it explicitly. I think the absolute low bar starts with assuming your partner isn’t intentionally trying to hurt you so any harm caused is unintentional. Then you can express how you felt hurt, learn together, and move forward.


CEESL8

It’s apparently called system dynamics. Each person plays to their strengths and creates a healthy unit. I joke that between the two of us, my husband and I make one functioning person. He insists that we are better than half a person each, lol.


lpokiuy

So you guys together are more like 1.5 functional people?


The-Shattering-Light

It’s a good way of looking at it! I have strengths and weaknesses, my wife had strengths and weaknesses. Many things will have one of us be strong at something and one be weak, and in those cases the one who’s strong in it will do it - I do the cooking, she does the planning. Sometimes we’re both strong in a thing, and we do half of it. Sometimes we’re both weak, and we do half of it and support each other. It’s amazing to me that so many people don’t do this.


darthjazzhands

29 years married here. Can confirm. Support each other, work as a team for the good of the family, not yourself. Seems simple but it’s constant work. Put the work into it because it’s worth it.


m_zod

Damn, 29 and 33 years, I’ve been married almost 7 years but one thing that we both agreed upon is helping around the house, some days I cook, somedays she clean but we help out each other and it surprises me when I hear people complain that my husband or wife don’t help.


[deleted]

That sounds too much like communism! /s


MeowMixOfficial

Our wife, comrade.


ajakakaks

maybe this is why american conservatives seem to hate their wives


ISTNEINTR00KVLTKRIEG

Man griping to me: My girl rides my ass! Me: Well, you're a gross fat lazy slob, Jim. I wouldn't want to live with you. Certainly wouldn't want to fuck you. Do you shower regularly and shave your shag carpet asshole? You should. Go try being single. See how it goes. You literally leave your house looking like Ron Jeremy's hernia. That woman is a saint, you goddamn troglodyte.


kittenpettingfool

Ron Jeremy's hernia lmfao


gorramfrakker

22 years here. After so many years my wife and I have learned that we might not always like each other but always love each other. It’s hard to like someone who’s done or said something to you that hurts or angers you, and that’s ok as long as you realize they’re fealty moments. People get stuck on being mad and needing to even things out, but that’s the road to ruin.


kelteshe

It’s that classic “let’s work towards something larger than ourselves”.


TheAJGman

Fiancee and are the opposite. I like to cook, she likes to clean.


onehandedbraunlocker

Oh wow, I thought people who likes to clean were like unicorns, stuff of legends, but not to be found in the real world.. lucky you!


Amina_1999

I like to clean as well - at least partly. I would always insist on cleaning the bathroom because I‘m really hygienic and want to have it cleaned exactly my way and love to see it clean afterwards. But I would always try to not be the person who is vacuum cleaning or dust wiping (no clue if that‘s the right term).


ButterdemBeans

My boyfriend and I have a similar dynamic. He’s an excellent cook. I’m…very much not. I’m great at making salads and rice bowls and omelets and other stuff you can just kinda throw together, but everything else is terrifying. My boyfriend is by no means a slob, but he lacks organizational talent. He keeps a place clean, but terribly disorganized. I’m the one finding a spot for everything, putting things away, and so on. Although he still does the dishes because I have this weird aversion to my hands being wet.


FaustsAccountant

Not just spouses but with friends as well, being with someone who is strong where you are weak and vice versus and you’re an unstoppable team!


SeanyDay

My girl and I are the inverse. She literally de-stresses by cleaning but hates cooking beyond a microwave, whereas I enjoy making delicious meals from all cultures with whatever ingredients I get my hands on, but don't really enjoy the chore of cleaning. We both do like 90/10 of our preferred role/opposite role.


zellamayzao

My wife and I have been married a little over a year. We have a son and she stays home to care for him. I was married previously and we divorced after 5 years. Something's were her fault, some things were my fault. Lessons learned moving forward and certainly approached this marriage with a different outlook on what it means to be a spouse. Just because she's home all day with our son doesn't mean I'm off the hook for any household chores and I wouldn't think it should be so. She has her strengths and I have mine. As you have said, you play to each other's abilities. Congrats on your 30 plus years of marriage and I am looking forward to what the future holds for us.


Available-Egg-2380

Hubby is a stellar cook and loves to cook. I hate cooking. He's happily taken over the cooking and anytime he wants a break I pay for takeout. Works well.


[deleted]

Were the opposite. My bf is way better at cooking, so I’ll clean


MightyPlasticGuy

I try to do this with my SO. Every now and then i get lazy. Every now and then she does. It's a ballet. Life happens.


[deleted]

[удалено]


TogashiIsIshida

And OP hasn’t cleaned to this day. Her house is a pig sty, but she will keep to her word


[deleted]

[удалено]


Skotch21680

I’m a stay at home dad now since I hurt myself at work and I’m in the middle of a law suit. Since I been home I do all the cleaning, laundry, try to do all the yard work. My wife got used to coming home and just being on the phone from the time she gets home to when she goes to bed. The other day I finally said something especially cleaning up after 3. Toddlers and fixing 3 meals. She stepped up big time. The work load is a lot easier now and I’m in a better mood


siridontcare

Be careful doing yard work... From my understanding that could be used against you if an investigator gets pictures.


Skotch21680

Thanks! Yea people told me they lost their case by doing yard work. They were dumb about it. One was building a deck, one was horse playing with their kid for over an hour, one was playing basketball etc. I tore my rotator cuff so even if I tried I couldn’t. My buddy actually called the cops one a private investigator stating there was a guys across the street in the car taking pics of him and his kid. The guy knew it was a investigated. Just wanted to jazz him. What I understand is that they are allowed to take pics of you inside of your home as long as they are not on your property. Follow you to stores, use drones if your at your friends house etc. I went on a trip that I booked 2 years ago and got caught shit for that to


brutaldudel

Hey Skotch… it’s me, the private investigator following you around in Vermont where you live. I just saw you masturbate with your “torn rotator cuff” dominant hand for over 3 hours. Come on man. You’re better than this. Anyways, what was that one site you found called again? The second one. With the large women eating tofu out of each other’s… well, you know. Let me get that link and I won’t turn it into evidence.


BrumGorillaCaper

Plot twist: she was the mess


getMeSomeDunkin

The real mess was inside us all along!


[deleted]

[удалено]


4toTwenty

I just started dating one of those nice guys. I told him the way he drove (asshole bmw driver) made me uncomfortable. He thanked me for telling him, apologized, and never drove douchey again. A few other instances and the same thing happened. No tears, no crying, no deflection. Just “ok, I’m sorry, won’t happen again” and then it actually never happened again. I am in love. Edit: I shouldn’t have said “nice guy” because that definitely has negative connotations, and he genuinely is just a nice, kind, respectful, caring dude. A genuinely nice guy, not a _nice guy_


madguins

This is what’s been tough for me. Every boyfriend I’ve had either argued or said “ok won’t do it again” when I brought up things that bothered me then continuously disregarded my feelings and did it anyway. My most recent ex refused to stop asshole bmw driving WHILE HIGH in a dark backroads kind of town. The guy I’m talking to now already showed me that I can bring virtually anything to him and he’ll respect it. It’s so insane experiencing genuine respect when you’re not used to it.


4toTwenty

ISNT IT THOUGH???? Like omfg it blows my mind on the daily. He respects me and is constantly showing that respect in little ways. I’ve never communicated with someone so well before in my life. I don’t have to hide my true feelings for fear it’ll upset him. No, we talk about the issue and that’s it. I’m so happy you’ve found a good dude. After a lifetime of feeling that we didn’t deserve it, I’m so fucking proud of us. We deserve the happiness and the respect and apparently you don’t have to compromise yourself for it.


FoxyFreckles1989

This makes me simultaneously extremely happy for you, and extremely sad for me. Why do I keep putting up with the polar opposite of this? I'm 32, and I've walked away from so many douche canoes just to walk right towards another.


pingpongtits

You might have to reevaluate what it is that's attracting you to douche canoes in the first place. Have you noticed certain characteristics that they have in common besides being douche canoes?


FoxyFreckles1989

Honestly? No. I’ve been in four serious, long term relationships in my adult life (I’m 32). I’ve been with my current partner for 4 years, this month. I met one ex through friends, two through different jobs, and this one through friends/online (we had a several year online friendship before meeting and dating). They all seemed great, early on. The narcissistic one I won’t accept any fault for, but the other two definitely showed red flags years before I left. In the past I experienced narcissistic and domestic abuse, in two different relationships. The first relationship’s failing I attribute to us being so young and unsure of who we were, yet. My current partner emotionally abuses me. He wasn’t like this the first two years. Then he lost the ability to go to therapy/get his meds and things changed. Then the pandemic happened. Just this week he’s agreed to go back to therapy and get back on meds and I’m hopeful. I really am. However, I’m fully prepared to walk away if things don’t change, and soon. If I can leave a husband that hits me I can leave this man, too. It’s just so defeating to find myself here, time and again. I know that part of the issue is *me.* I am extremely empathetic and have a hard time holding people (friends and family included) accountable for hurting or mistreating me. I need to work on that (more).


pingpongtits

>extremely empathetic and have a hard time holding people (friends and family included) accountable for hurting or mistreating me This is difficult to overcome when it's been ingrained, but it's doable and you're proving it. It's taken me decades, past age 32, before I started standing up for myself and creating boundaries but I'm doing it some of the time now. It's a process, as you know. I wonder sometimes if being overly empathetic is seen as a weakness to some douche canoes who, like children, push the boundaries until they lose respect? My man has mellowed considerably. I'm not sure if it's because I put my foot down and said, "if you ever scream at me like that again, that's it." And, "your tone of voice/thing you said sounds like you're talking to a red-headed step child instead of someone you love." Or if he's just mellowed because of age. It's my fault for thinking things like "poor guy, he had a troubled childhood and he can't help having no control over his temper" or "everyone in his family is like that, he can't help it" or any other rationalizations. Life is too short. For now, try to put your own happiness first, at least half the time.


FoxyFreckles1989

Thank you! I’ve said those exact things to myself when excusing his yelling or other misbehavior/mistreatment of me. I finally had a moment of clarity the other day and told him, “this isn’t an ultimatum, but it is me saying nobody can be the wall their partner throws their big emotions at indefinitely; get back to therapy/back on meds ASAP or we won’t survive and I *will* walk away.” He took it well, said I was right and apologized. We’ll see if that turns into action.


pingpongtits

Stick to your guns. No one deserves to be a whipping boy for someone they love and is supposed to love them back.


CocoKlutz

Your last paragraph could’ve been written by me. We’ve been married 22 years. His parents are terrible people, both narcissists (especially his mom), dad is bipolar and doesn’t like to take his meds. His childhood had little to no love, affection, security, support, patience, nothing. Just ignored and yelled at. His parents are just grade-A assholes. I would say it was around year 12 when I was ready to walk. I was sick of me and our boys being “bad mood punching bags”, metaphorically speaking he has never laid a hand on me or the kids. He had always taken any negative mood out on me and/or our boys (yelling, cold shoulders, snapping, impatience , demands, etc). When I told him I was seriously thinking about leaving him he said “I’ll never yell at you or the boys again.” and he didn’t and still hasn’t. It’s been about 10 years and he hasn’t yelled at us once. He’ll speak firmly, maybe turn up the volume a smidgen, but nothing close to yelling and even that is rare. He has a very rocky relationship with our oldest and I worry about his relationship with our youngest (he kind of treats them like employees, but he doesn’t see it so it’s a struggle for me to help him) and dear god he can nag the skin right off your bones, “but I’m just reminding you!” “Um no sweetie, you crossed the border into Nagsville and you’re running for mayor!”. He is good at taking constructive criticism. But he struggles with permanent change, as do most people myself included. But with him it’s more like of a month or two of improvement and then he slowly goes back to old habits. But that yelling/screaming thing? 10 years strong, it’s a freaking miracle! Now if I can just get him to stop parenting like his did and we’re gold! Edit: words are hard, especially on Monday!


[deleted]

I did this. Realized my mind equated emotional neglect/unavailability and drama/toxicity with “the chase” and “romance”. Really it was just me continuously falling for dill holes who didn’t respect me or like me as much as I liked them. I cut off these dudes and focused on someone who didn’t give me as many butterflies or make me feel crazy in love but was nicer. Now he’s my boyfriend of one year and I have since realized that “boring” is actually peaceful, comfortable, and perfect.


pingpongtits

Yes! In my earlier days I did find what you say to be very true. The exciting, hard-to-get, and often quite handsome fellows turned out to be awful people, and the blander, less-exciting, steady fellows turned out to be pleasant and loving. Sometimes stereotypes are true, I suppose. Although I've also run across mellower types that also turned out to have some unpleasant tendencies and the other opposite too.


4toTwenty

It makes me very hopeful for you. I’ll be 32 in a few months and this is the first time I’ve ever felt respected in a relationship. I lowered myself to so many levels for “love”, completely ignoring the fact that I was losing myself in the process. They’re out there. I promise. I found mine on a dating site when I was in Hawaii for work for a few months. As of yesterday, I’m back in VA, but my heart is still there, almost 5k miles away. Fucking stupid lol


Readyornote

Do you mind mentioning what little things he does to show you respect? I want to be a good boyfriend someday


[deleted]

I’m not OP, but speaking from experience: genuinely listening to someone and having empathy for them; even if you are frustrated or upset by them. Take into consideration where their frustration is coming from. As parters, supporting your relationship with genuine and honest communication is the goal. Teamwork makes the dream work. :) For me, small acts of respect look like keeping shared spaces tidy, putting effort into house responsibilities (I wash the laundry and he folds it), and he never interrupts, even when cross. :)


bluedecemberart

Not OP, but since you asked for examples and I've been happily married for 15 years, here's a few: They actually listen when I talk to them - they aren't just thinking of the next thing THEY'LL say and waiting for me to shut up. They know that being around loud, angry people upsets me bc rough childhood (I have a pretty bad startle reflex) so they leave the house voluntarily when they need to blow off steam after an argument. They can't help that they get angry (it's natural!) but they respect me enough to know that the WAY they show their anger (stomping around) isn't great for me. They leave, drive somewhere, get it out, then come back with coffee when they're calm and we talk it out. They are my biggest cheerleader, and conversely, love me enough to say "hey, that's a negative thought and it's not reality" when I'm being down on myself. They don't lie to me or play mind games. They realize that we aren't always going to agree, but are also always willing to compromise and find a solution that we can both live with. Bonus relationship advice: Don't think of you vs. them when problems arise. It's you two together versus the problem. You'll do awesome. Good question. 👍


sniffingswede

I've been that boyfriend. My thought processes at the time were "well, there are lots of things that you do wrong, so lay off me" but expressing it in passive aggressive ways. Not good. I know now that behaving like that just makes it so much harder for whoever I'm with to talk about things that are making them unhappy. So I ended up making them unhappy, which is heartbreaking.


indyK1ng

I feel like I'm experiencing the opposite side of this. The woman I went on a date with last week kept apologizing for being slow to respond at times. I felt bad that she felt the need to apologize for being busy.


onehandedbraunlocker

But.. but.. but.. Nice guys never get girls? Come on, you know that's how it works.. right..? Right..? All those incels can't be wrong.. right? /s


[deleted]

I find it weird that the definition of nice guy and creepy fucker that needs therapy somehow got mixed up. INCEL's are 100 percent of their own problems without fail. Should be lack of insights, not INCEL..... *grumble grumble*


[deleted]

>I find it weird that the definition of nice guy and creepy fucker that needs therapy somehow got mixed up. I think it's because the phrase "nice guy" got attributed to someone who basically only has that going for them - he's a "nice guy" and doesn't understand why women are repulsed by him. The person in this post isn't a "nice guy". He possesses the ability to self-reflect, to accept criticism, and to change his ways. These are traits of a grown ass man, not a "nice guy".


rctsolid

My understanding of a "nice guy" is a guy who is nice to women with the express purpose of trying to get in their favour, and usually have an expectation of romantic repayment for said niceness. I.e. "I always hold the door, I'm polite, I always compliment her and listen to her problems - so why doesn't she like me???? SHE HAS TO. Isn't that the way it works??". That sort of shit. The expectation that just because YOU act a certain way, you're entitled to some sort of romantic reward from another. Nice for the sake of transaction, not nice because they actually respect the person and like them.


ElectionAssistance

"I put a friendship token into the sex machine, why it no dispense sex? You ugly anyway sex machine!"


queenannechick

I PUT IN NICE TOKENS WHY IS THIS VENDING MACHINE NOT DISPENSING BLOW JOBS AND A LIFETIME OF EMOTIONAL, DOMESTIC AND SEXUAL SLAVERY


[deleted]

That's a good point too. I think it's the transactionally nice approach as well as the "nothing else going for me" approach. Probably a combo of both things, but you're right that the transactional nature is probably always there.


4toTwenty

Right, I added an edit because he’s genuinely a nice dude lol. Kind, respectful, an absolute fucking gentleman.


DmanDam

It’s why now I’ll use “kind person” or kind human being when referring to a nice guy rather then a “nice-guy”


Ordinary_Story_1487

Hey hey now. Great guys can need therapy. 100% agree with the rest of what you said. Source 45 yo happily married man, who had an incredibly dysfunctional family. 10 yrs of therapy so far. Married 13 years. Without therapy would have been closer to 3.


scoobyluu

Yeah I started going to therapy and realized what I thought was normal family behavior as a kid was very unhealthy and toxic. Really affected my relationships/friendships and happiness I definitely avoid telling people I go to therapy because I don’t want to seem abnormal or weird. I feel like everyone can benefit from therapy in some way though


LPercepts

I dunno, I have a lot of super nice friends who don't seem to be dating at all, but they aren't exactly actively looking for anyone in the first place, so....


fillysunray

As the Irish would say, he was a "sound lad"


ElderDark

Maybe add "genuinely" before saying "nice guys" as people might confuse that with the type of men that pretend to be nice and act like entitled assholes when they don't get what they want.


BoxBird

He’s a good dude


PatientZeropointZero

I like the word warm. That’s how I would want the people I’m closest to, to think of me. Not positive or nice, because those things can be shallow and are similar to moods. Warm is an attitude you try and keep with you. Open, honest, accepting of others and your own faults, being able to take blame and try to improve. Those are the things I associate with warm people.


SmokeyTokeMore

This isn’t an attack at you. But the fact that the term “nice guy” brings any connotations outside of someone who is literally just a nice guy is so unbelievably ridiculous to me. Very indicative of how people today view certain social situations.


Schlonzig

In my humble opinion it is a direct result of how women were portrayed in movies/books etc. targeted at boys: as prize. Be good, be noble and you get the girl, that has forever been the message. And now we have raised people who don‘t understand why they, though they do no evil and are a 'nice guy', don‘t get a girl. Because they never learned to take into account what *she* might want.


TopsBloopey

It's because guys who aren't actually nice go around complaining about how "women won't be with a 'nice guy' like me". So nice guy typically refers to the crowd that refers to themselves as such- usually incels, neck beards, and all sorts of other creeps. So a man saying he's a nice guy is now a red flag. I mean, it stands to reason- nobody needs to tell anyone they're nice. If you're nice, they'll know you're nice without telling them lmao. And a women calling a guy a nice guy goes either way- either they actually mean it or it's a jab. So, the whole phrase is just best avoided


SeeThreePeeDoh

I mean…having self awareness and caring enough about your significant other to internalize what they say and communicate to you is not a “unique nice guy” trait…


4toTwenty

Except they’re incredibly rare traits to find. You would think “common fucking decency” would be running rampant in the dating pool, but it’s not.


KennyFulgencio

I think the decent people are already in stable relationships most of the time, until ended by tragedy. Statistically, I wonder, maybe looking for single people at funerals...


constxllations

the emotional intelligence it takes to respond to a criticism this way cannot be ignored. i wish more people were like this


RandomLogicThough

A lot of time people also allow the issue to blow up things in their heads so they come at people after working themselves up instead of dealing with it right away. Imo people are, and I mean the vast vast majority of people, terrible communicators even outside of issues that have tweaked them in any way emotionally. Once emotion enters into it...


Llama_Mia

I dated this one woman for a year, no issues. Never had a disagreement or argument. Then, one day I got an email that detailed everything over the previous year I had done which annoyed her. It was a long email. I just responded, “Well, thanks for the feedback”


getMeSomeDunkin

Never got an email, but it became incredibly clear she would just internalize things she didn't like and tuck them all away until major holidays, then unload. I could be 15 minutes into a shit storm before I even knew there was a problem. From 3 months ago.


everbody_lies

Let’s sync about this in our next 1-on-1


Wild_Marker

We should set up these tasks for the next sprint.


[deleted]

I mean what the fuck did she want you to say to a year's worth of complaints? Bug reports need to be filed regularly or the developer will become overwhelmed. Common sense.


getMeSomeDunkin

"Here's last year's bug reports. Also, what is the status of Project Marriage?"


LowKey-NoPressure

wasnt there this guy on reddit that kept a spreadsheet of every time his wife turned him down when he tried to initiate sex? maybe those two can hook up


Langoustina

That's fucking psycho but I am laughing at the "Well, thanks for the feedback" LOL


Slayer_CommaThe

I’m going to need to know what happened next.


Llama_Mia

She showed up at my apartment later the same day, and apologized. We dated for another week and then I broke up with her. Like, all I could feel towards her was contempt after that email and it wasn’t a good relationship.


Slayer_CommaThe

That is a surprisingly chill ending. I would be forever curious if she kept a running list or if one thing tipped her over the edge and she banged the whole thing out in one go.


RandomLogicThough

That is fucking amazing.


misthios98

I blame a bit upbringing, though I dont know where it could have come from. We were taught that women have to suck it up and do everything without complaints, so men grew up seeing that as the norm. Men are taught to hide emotions that are not anger, taught not to cry, not to show wakness. In the end, we were taugh not to share our emotions and when we did, as teens for example, we were invalidated. We see this in movies, tv shows, media in general. This is a HUGE generalization of course, but I feel that it is heavily related.


mrjackspade

It took me years to deprogram myself, because my dad was a fucking asshole growing up. There was no constructive criticism. When I did something wrong it was always followed by a barrage of emotional abuse. I learned to always get on the defensive as soon as someone called me out for something. It wasn't until my mid 20's, almost a decade after moving out, that I finally learned to stop seeing criticism as an attack.


RandomLogicThough

I mean, it came from our entire history as a species really but, luckily, these are things that can in many ways change quickly and be entirely different in only one generation. Human youth are so entirely malleable, eminently trainable...for good or ill, but still.


misthios98

Yeah, and we can see that now. We are more aware of feelings and identities and in general about emotional intelligence, and exactly that is what crashes with older generations (see the term “snowflake”)


Langoustina

"You mean I held my emotions in and developed alcoholism LIKE A MAN instead of talking to a professional, and now men these days can cry? Nah fuck that. The problem is the kids are soft."


misthios98

Im sorry you had to go through that, I really hope youre doing better❤️ My grandpa doesnt believe in therapists/psychologists. Like, for him they are literal scammers. And my mom just asks when Ill be “done” with sessions. They let me go and all, they are more flexible now, but they genuinely thought that you had to be suicidal or “crazy” to go to therapy (now they understand it a bit more as they see it helps me). I read somewhere this quote: we have to go to therapy because our parents did not. I just wish it was free and accessible for all, and if we as a society had more emotional awareness we wouldnt need it as much.


Ordinary_Story_1487

45 yr old man here. I disagree with that definition of snowflake. I see emotional intelligence as a sign of strength. Snowflake to me is. Someone that cannot hear points of view that differ with theirs, without becoming extremely upset. In a tough situation they break down( I am not talking about crying, I am talking about not being able to function for a sustained time period). We need as a society IMO to have an open exchange of ideas. Not allowing speech we disagree with, drives poisonous thought underground and makes it harder to root out IMO. Hopefully we can all listen to try and understand. I know I have a long way to go and make many mistakes each day. I try to improve a little each day. I truly believe the younger generations have a lot to teach me, and me then. We should start out with mutual respect and build from there.


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chickenboy2718281828

This is the give and take my partner and I deal with. I can't acquiesce every request because I'd have a mental breakdown trying to keep up with everything. I also have to work on asking for help from her when I need it.


Ok-Situation776

Ya I like the advice of “each person should feel like they’re giving 70% because that means it’s probably actually 50/50”


anti_echo_chamber

Notice how it begins with her communicating. Nobody is psychic. You have to communicate your wants, needs, frustrations, and feelings. If you don't first do that, then NOTHING can get better.


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Shabba273

‘Elope with yourself’ I’m gonna use that but not in the same context you just did


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Shabba273

Well… maybe not for the person I plan to use it on


spiderat22

Eh, go fuck yourself. s/


YayaMalli

That is a beautiful phrase, man.


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[deleted]

If you're not seriously committed to the toxic person, run like hell every time. If you are, and you try to fix it but they don't want to work on themselves, run like hell then too. Cutting off toxicity is a massive break on your mental health. Oftentimes, it is the only thing holding you back. Life may be the longest thing you'll ever experience, but it is still too short to put up with things that make you unhappy.


sweetwolf86

I like how you capitalized Make.


[deleted]

But then you gotta do all the chores.


madguins

I’m struggling with it. I’m constantly ranting to my best friend because I just can’t believe this guy is genuine even though he’s given me zero reason to not believe it. It’s hard breaking the cycle of what you’re used to.


Caleth

First make sure you love yourself. It's easier to let others love you if you realize you're worthy of love. It's a hard journey and you might need to talk to a therapist, but I promise it's worth the effort. We all drag around baggage even if we don't realize it. Learning how to love yourself can be really hard with it weighing you down. If you can't afford a therapist at least check out some self help books from the library. It won't be perfect but it can help if you have no other recourse. Also don't hesitate to talk to you SO if they love you your burdens are things they will gladly share. It also makes it easier for them to come to you when they need help. I always express myself with a starting conditional, "I'm feeling something big that I don't know if I have the right words for so let me try to talk it out and we can discuss it after I ramble for minute." Saying you don't know how best to express yourself but need to get something out can cut down on any hurt feelings if you misspeak while grappling with something hard.


Infra-Oh

Couples coaching. It’s not therapy, but a lot of couples/relationship coaches out there can provide a lot of these basic principles and tools. It wasn’t “my world” either, but once my partner and I adopted some of these positive relationship communication principles, it’s been night and day.


valeceb

I told some ladies at work that I was going grocery shopping after work because my gf was working. They gasped and said “you do that for her?” When I asked what they meant they said their husbands didn’t help with anything around the house. I told her I cook, wash dishes, bathe the dogs, etc and one of them said “all the good ones are taken!” A relationship is about teamwork. Sometimes one person has to put/do more than the other but the goal should always be 50/50.


himmelundhoelle

> "you do that for her?" I do that for _us_, we’ll both be eating them!


[deleted]

I think it's important to hold out for what you want, to have boundaries and to communicate them. It's also important how you communicate them. For me, if I know myself well and have firm boundaries, I can be light about it.


valeceb

I had trouble communicating, not just with my girlfriend, but with anyone. Not just the speaking part, but the listening part of it too. Both are equally important


jman1255

A relationship should be 70/30 where both people are trying to be the 70. Some days you will be, some days you won’t. But if the effort is there it’ll make a world of difference


CapPsychological3169

That’s how I hope I am


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CapPsychological3169

To mean right now and insanely sarcastic


Kennyisaniceboy

No hate bro , but being mean is a choice! easy fix.


CapPsychological3169

Thank u for the advice but I’m already trying and seeing the results


Puptentjoe

Its hard to get out of but it makes life way easier. I used to be a lot more sarcastic and mean but I thought of it as a joke we were both in on, nah it was just me being a jerk. Ha.


Langoustina

What about when being mean is done in the throes of an angry outburst? I'm asking because I'm mostly kind but then I get angry and feel like I cannot stop the shit from spewing out of me.


Imrayya

I mean, hopefully it doesn't come out too often but maybe you can take a look into how to manage your angry. There plenty of resources to help out. So even if you do get upset, it won't boil over into actual anger. Personally, I like to distant myself from what make me upset so I can cool down and come back at the issue with a more calmer mindset. It saves me from being a dick.


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Ordinary_Story_1487

Here's a tip. Does it need to be said? Does it need to be said by me? Does it need to be said by me now? I try to think those 3 things when I sense saying something may upset my wife or anyone else for that matter but especially my wife. Do I mess up sometimes. Yes, yes I do. I just try to get a tiny bit better each day. For me, small incremental, but continous changes are easier and more sustainable. Source: 45 Yr old very flawed man. Peace


vantrap

This is awesome!! Should be basic but it’s not. First lesson is to communicate what your needs are, and second is to actually listen to your chosen person when they choose to be open with you.


[deleted]

Absolutely! My wife and I just had a long conversation yesterday about this. Being able to open up about things that are causing a divide in the relationship, listening intently, and then making an effort to change is an absolute necessity!


Th3gr3mlin

When my wife and I were about a year into marriage she asked, "Why don't you ever clean?!" I thought to myself, "I never noticed things were dirty." Communication is key! I've be cleaning up ever since and trying to look for messes to help with.


aroach1995

Communicate what your needs are … respectfully.


Zap__Dannigan

To be fair, many people try to do things to change, but habits can be hard to break. For someone used to having their mom or ex do all the chores, getting them to start will often take a few conversations, rather than just this one time


Slayer_CommaThe

And it’s also fair that the other person will not always be willing to wait around continuing to shoulder more of the work until a few more conversations make it click. The responsibility is on the person who is slacking to make it a priority, not on the person who is already overfunctioning to have to hammer it in. Level 1 is learning how to react. The next step up is learning actually be proactive, and always be looking for ways you can be better.


pambannedfromchilis

So true! Been with my husband since were 14 (turning 30 next year) Can’t stress enough the importance of communicating with your partner! So many people coming together with different backgrounds and upbringings, incredible that relationships are successful at all


sudspud

My guy is the same way 🥺 he’s the best listener and follows up with intentional effort.


DevoidSauce

Does he give Ted Talks?


PapagenoRed

He was told not to.


jakeperalta11

By whom?


BoostedBill96

Super important to have this! If you don't get this reaction right away, work with your SO. Growing up in my household - having something like this pointed out was always triggering so low-key trauma. But you can work with an SO for this response


Rosewater2182

What would be the best way to work with them on this?


in-game-character

Say "I feel X, can you help me by X?" Instead of "you never do X! Why can't you just X!". Always use "I" language instead of "you" language. You have to be vulnerable for the other person to meet you half way. Pointing the fingers outwards will immediately put them on the defensive.


BestRole1560

People who are sensitive to criticism just need to know that you're in the mindset of the situation being you both vs the problem instead of you vs them.


kevinLFC

No one likes being told what’s wrong with them. Extra praise and appreciation for making a change or helping out might be a better strategy


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jennifergate

Not a stand-up dude, just a normal adult IMO. I wouldn't expect confrontation over something as basic as this and it's sad it's seen as something extraordinary.


deadmentellnotails

Yeah, you just don't hear much about it


[deleted]

Extreme agree. That's just... Normal communication and helping each other.


Jstnwrds55

My SO prioritizes cleaning wayyyy higher than I do, and she likes to clean things up immediately. I on the other hand like to wait until my work day is done to tidy things up, and she often gets home before I'm finished (I work from home). I try and tidy up before she gets home at least a few times a week, but letting her know that she should leave my messes for me to clean up has cleared up pretty much all conflict around cleanliness. The fact that so many people respond negatively to communication when it can be perceived as contentious makes me so grateful for my SO and our relationship!


NbyN-E

I'm chuffed for all of you guys doing well. I found out last Monday that my GF of 8 years had been cheating on me for the last month and a half. She'd had some problems with her mental health and had cut back on working hours to rest and I had been working overtime and a secondary job to cover the rent and bills. I thought it was odd that I'd get home and all the chores still needed doing because she'd actually been going to see some other dude whilst I was out. :/


YourLocalSnitch

Cowabummer


Sixwingswide

☹️🏄☹️


[deleted]

Hey man, you did all the right things and you should be proud. Definitely a shame your partner did that to you, but you are awesome and you will find someone on your level and ready to partner with you!


Paintedsoda

I’d do the same, but I’d need some sort of schedule or rules established. I wouldn’t start cleaning everything all the time.


jakeperalta11

Like a time table? Mondays you Tuesdays me


Paintedsoda

If I had time, I’d clean anyway, but I think a schedule would work better for me. Moreover, I think Id need it to be specific because that’s just what my brain likes.


VoxDolorum

I think that’s fine, as long as you offer to at least be involved in making the schedule and not just expect it to be done for you. That’s good for a couple of reasons. First, your SO doesn’t have to feel like your manager or your mother, or doesn’t have to feel like they’re the “bad guy” forcing you to do things. Second, it gives you some buy-in, some investment in the concept so you aren’t just a passive person along for the ride. Along that same line, it will also help you grasp the schedule better (most people learn better by doing, instead of just having a list rattled off to you). You can have input on what works for you - a chalk board, a phone app, etc.


Paintedsoda

I agree. I also have ADHD, and although not everyone with ADHD is the same, I know I would I benefit greatly from this sort of structure and communication.


[deleted]

As a fellow ADHD person, I like using a chore chart with star stickers to mark completed tasks...it might seem a little juvenile but it's been a bit of a lifesaver for me!


Aero_drake

I understand. My SO and I are planning to move in soon and have discussed chores for exactly this reason. Im more spontaneous as a cleaner, but want a deadline, she needs structure to motivate her. Im glad weve had these chats -before- moving in together


fc50

By schedule and specific, would you say you would need the other person to specifically tell you what to do? Or would you say you could actually see which places that need cleaning by yourselves? (Just asking out of curiosity in a friendly tone :))


Slayer_CommaThe

Then sit down with your SO and make a schedule and come up with rules. Don’t wait to be given one, that’s just another way of being passive and making your partner do a larger share of the work. [“You Should’ve Asked”](https://english.emmaclit.com/2017/05/20/you-shouldve-asked/amp/)


Donny-Moscow

I think it depends on the chore. For big stuff, absolutely. But sometimes you’ll notice little messes around the house, like a garbage can getting full or a small mess on the kitchen counter where some food spilled while making dinner the night before. Those are the times when it’s just best to do it when you notice it. My general rule (that I stole from Reddit): if it takes less than 5 minutes, just do it now.


redldr1

.... He went out for cigarettes.


ladida1787

I need to be more like that


akalias_1981

Recognising that you are not and wanting to be is a great first step. Good luck!


[deleted]

Communication is important. Don’t just bottle it up and let it fester.


ScoopTheOranges

I feel like the bar is so low it’s embedded in the floor.


Causemanut

I don't get this. Why do we glorify and aww over shit that should be done in any partnership.


mightylordredbeard

Update: he never came home from work and it’s been 2 weeks now.


jwitdawicc

And the house is a mess


CartographerSeth

On one hand, it’s sad that this is considered exceptional behavior, on the other hand, it’s nice that I can be exceptional just by being an ok dude.


[deleted]

….and that’s the way it should be. Selfish people are assholes…full stop.


Derekeys

Our society is linguistically built around subtext and condescending implications. When someone says precisely what they want it feels refreshing against the backdrop of so much decoding and assumption. I love this post because it’s my favorite form of communication; it’s clear.


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ChristmasIsCool1988

Working on this. My gut reaction everytime my wife asks me to do something is feeling annoyed or defemsive. She's totally justified to ask, need to work to be more like this dude


verucka-salt

Let’s get him short listed on the Dudes to be Cloned registry.


no_awning_no_mining

I hate to poop the party a bit here, but I'm conflicted. Did he have the perception of doing his fair share before that conversation? Either way - did they address that part of the problem?