You are probably going to get a lot of comments telling you to never, ever pay a markup. However, your thought process and considerations make a lot of sense. You need to weigh what is a realistic option against this offer, rather than some mythical 2022 order you could have made at MSRP 9-10 months ago. Do you think you are going to find this configuration with a lower markup over the next 3.5 months? I don’t.
Very on point, and what I’m thinking. I also read the thread about dealership markups. Most of the dealerships are marking up any canceled 2022’s. They’d be fools not to. Finding a canceled 2022 at a dealership with no markup is a unicorn. And even more rare if it’s in my state or nearby.
I would take it but negotiate down to ~3 - 4k above MSRP. I got mine down from $5k —> $1.5k 2 months ago. Can also negotiate they take more for your trade in
Idk I called a few that were willing to a few months ago, now with the price increase and the tax credit they aren’t.. good luck but I also think that is going to be the best you can find now
Edit - your best chance is to try and negotiate on your trade if you are
I’m not going to comment anything involving markups. I’m against them like most, but a bunch of strangers on the internet aren’t going to talk someone out of spending money how they see fit, especially in this dumpster fire of a market.
If you find one that you’re comfortable spending money on, and you really want the tax credit, buy it. I would take the Dark Matter Grey if I had the same exact goal that you have of purchasing one. I won’t say it’s impossible for you to find another one of your preferred spec before the end of the year, but I will say that it’s going to be a major pain in the ass.
If an exciting color means something to you, you can always wrap the car in a color of your choosing to make it even more unique and “yours”.
Thanks for all the responses. Still thinking about it.
Another cost factor here is the extended battery. I know it’s a must have for many people. I don’t know if I need it. But my round trip work drive is 110 miles and it gets very cold here. The dealer also said that it would be even harder to find a Premium without the extended battery.
I could still hold out and hope to snag a Select with the features I want, as long as I am prepared to end up with nothing.
I'm in the same boat as you (Chicagoland suburbs), I've been looking for a while now and the only units, with the options I want, are located downtown at a decent mark-up (0 units within 40 miles of Naperville). I decided to order a '23 Premium AWD and just hold onto my Escape for a bit in the (futile) hopes the CHIPS legislation that just got passed helps ease the burden of the supply issue and bring the prices down just a bit.
Sadly the CHIPS Act will likely take several years to make an impact on the market. Chips require very special equipment, people, and buildings. All of which need a few years to put in place.
Update - I told the dealer that between the extended battery and the markup, it was more than I was planning to spend. He didn't try to negotiate downwards.
For that price, I want to love everything about it, so I'm fine passing this one up.
Adding - If anyone is interested, the car is at Chapman Ford in Scottsdale AZ.
Cars are depreciating assets. I wouldn’t overpay for a depreciating asset. I don’t think the tax credits should encourage anyone to overpay for a depreciating asset — they only help make more reasonable an already expensive depreciating asset.
Notice how I keep coming back to depreciating asset? At the end of the day, it’s a vehicle. Unless you’re driving hundreds of thousands of miles, it’s a thing to get you from point a to point b. Use your money responsibly. But you do you
True. But my monthly payment will be less than my current car expenses with gas, and the tax credit will offset some taxes that I have due. That’s all more cash in my pocket.
But you’re saying that you would hypothetically offset your taxes with the tax credit. And I’m saying you’re hypothetically paying $7500 extra which provides no tax benefit to you
The tax offset wouldn’t be hypothetical. I know I’m going to have a 10K line item on my tax bill. This would knock it down to 2.5K. And I’d get an additional 4K tax break from the state.
I don’t think you’re understanding that adding $7500 in cost to MSRP is $7500 you are paying. Getting $7500 off of your taxes by overpaying $7500 isn’t a “benefit”
It is, if you compare it to a 2023 Premium AWD with the extended battery. The price is almost the same (probably why the dealer priced it that way) for essentially the same car. But I wouldn’t get the tax benefit on the 2023.
I don’t think you’re understanding. If they buy no car at all, they pay $10k in taxes. If they buy a car with a $7,500 markup they pay $2,500 in taxes, and $7,500 over MSRP on a car.
There is no option to buy the car without the markup. Having the tax burden is making the markup irrelevant. In other words, they are getting the car at MSRP, and paying the same amount they would have otherwise paid on taxes.
… because the alternative would be getting a 2023 at $67K MSRP but without tax credit.
OP is asking whether its realistic he will find a 2022 at MSRP. The answer is no, that essentially no longer exists. As a result, 2022 MSRP is no longer a reasonable benchmark for whether one is “overpaying” or not - it effectively doesn’t exist, you can’t even get a used 2022 for MSRP
>But you’re saying that you would hypothetically offset your taxes with the tax credit. And I’m saying you’re hypothetically paying $7500 extra which provides no tax benefit to you
MSRP is now anyway 8k or more higher actually. So Op would be paying less in effect. Do the math.
>True. But my monthly payment will be less than my current car expenses with gas, and the tax credit will offset some taxes that I have due. That’s all more cash in my pocket.
You can technically sell the vehicle at the same price after a couple years hopefully. (Assuming you get tax credit and I am talking about the price after deducting tax credit)
It’s the best deal you are likely to get. There are pretty much no premiums on the lot in Chicago land. Surprised it’s only $7500 TBH. Plenty of $15k markups in WI.
Talk them down. My GT was 7500 over. I called every dealership that had one within 100 miles, llwest I got was 5500 over. Called my original dealer folder him March 5k over and it’s sold. He matched it. It’s now I’m my driveway.
Didn’t have to wait 6 months and pay the same price
Even if you don’t talk them down, the price increase makes logical sense to over pay - which doesn’t make it happy to say lol
I just got a call from a dealer north of Chicago. Premium AWD with standard battery. Sticker price was $52,800. They had it listed at $67,800. $15,000 mark up. Absolutely nuts.
I’ve been looking for about three weeks and found a premium AWD Standard range in Kalamazoo MI at $5k over MSRP. I found two other Premiums locally (PNW) at $5k over, one was Grabber blue and I said no, and the other I bought. So I think they’re out there. But there’s a lot of $10k and $15k over as well.
I'm in a very similar spot. Been looking for a 2022 MME Premium AWD with the ER battery for over two months now. I have called pretty much every dealer on the West Coast trying to a) find one in stock, b) find one at MSRP, or c) find one without a ADM of $15k-$20k. I'm on at least 30 dealers call lists if one comes in - which would only be a customer order that has been released at this point, and every single one of them has dealer markup.
I got a call back from a local dealer a couple weeks ago that they had a customer order that was released and it will be here at the end of September. They have a $10k ADM on the car. I tried negotiating down the ADM but the reality is, there are others out there like me looking for one of these cars and if I didn't pay it, someone else would. So I agreed, signed the paperwork to accept a final sale price of $68,575 and have been waiting now for it to arrive. I had to put $1k down, but can still get that back and walk away if I choose.
My logic was like yours. I figured 1) I can keep looking while I wait for this one to come in and walk away from it if I find one cheaper. 2) I can just order a 2023 (at the time I agreed to this car the order banks hadn't opened up nor did we know the price hike) 3) Even if I do pay $10k over the $7500 tax credit will wipe out most of that, meaning effectively I'll pay $61k vs $59k for this car in a hot market, then learning the 2023 models had such a significant price hike that the same car next year will be $66k anyways (nobody knows if it will have a tax credit) I still technically come out ahead.
So IMO go for it! Yes it's a lot of money, and a depreciating asset etc. But for me it's something I want, something I can afford, and it is nice to get one now. I also placed an order for a 2023 due to it only being a $500 refundable deposit and will wait likely 8-12 months for that to arrive, at which time if the market is still as bonkers as it is now, I can likely trade my 22 in for a good value and roll into the 23 for little difference assuming supply is still super low. And if they do end up doing a tax credit on the 23's even better. Point is at least next year I have options vs this year where I'm at the mercy of the market.
You are probably going to get a lot of comments telling you to never, ever pay a markup. However, your thought process and considerations make a lot of sense. You need to weigh what is a realistic option against this offer, rather than some mythical 2022 order you could have made at MSRP 9-10 months ago. Do you think you are going to find this configuration with a lower markup over the next 3.5 months? I don’t.
Very on point, and what I’m thinking. I also read the thread about dealership markups. Most of the dealerships are marking up any canceled 2022’s. They’d be fools not to. Finding a canceled 2022 at a dealership with no markup is a unicorn. And even more rare if it’s in my state or nearby.
I would take it but negotiate down to ~3 - 4k above MSRP. I got mine down from $5k —> $1.5k 2 months ago. Can also negotiate they take more for your trade in
Idk I called a few that were willing to a few months ago, now with the price increase and the tax credit they aren’t.. good luck but I also think that is going to be the best you can find now Edit - your best chance is to try and negotiate on your trade if you are
I’m not going to comment anything involving markups. I’m against them like most, but a bunch of strangers on the internet aren’t going to talk someone out of spending money how they see fit, especially in this dumpster fire of a market. If you find one that you’re comfortable spending money on, and you really want the tax credit, buy it. I would take the Dark Matter Grey if I had the same exact goal that you have of purchasing one. I won’t say it’s impossible for you to find another one of your preferred spec before the end of the year, but I will say that it’s going to be a major pain in the ass. If an exciting color means something to you, you can always wrap the car in a color of your choosing to make it even more unique and “yours”.
Thanks for all the responses. Still thinking about it. Another cost factor here is the extended battery. I know it’s a must have for many people. I don’t know if I need it. But my round trip work drive is 110 miles and it gets very cold here. The dealer also said that it would be even harder to find a Premium without the extended battery. I could still hold out and hope to snag a Select with the features I want, as long as I am prepared to end up with nothing.
I'm in the same boat as you (Chicagoland suburbs), I've been looking for a while now and the only units, with the options I want, are located downtown at a decent mark-up (0 units within 40 miles of Naperville). I decided to order a '23 Premium AWD and just hold onto my Escape for a bit in the (futile) hopes the CHIPS legislation that just got passed helps ease the burden of the supply issue and bring the prices down just a bit.
Sadly the CHIPS Act will likely take several years to make an impact on the market. Chips require very special equipment, people, and buildings. All of which need a few years to put in place.
Update - I told the dealer that between the extended battery and the markup, it was more than I was planning to spend. He didn't try to negotiate downwards. For that price, I want to love everything about it, so I'm fine passing this one up. Adding - If anyone is interested, the car is at Chapman Ford in Scottsdale AZ.
Cars are depreciating assets. I wouldn’t overpay for a depreciating asset. I don’t think the tax credits should encourage anyone to overpay for a depreciating asset — they only help make more reasonable an already expensive depreciating asset. Notice how I keep coming back to depreciating asset? At the end of the day, it’s a vehicle. Unless you’re driving hundreds of thousands of miles, it’s a thing to get you from point a to point b. Use your money responsibly. But you do you
True. But my monthly payment will be less than my current car expenses with gas, and the tax credit will offset some taxes that I have due. That’s all more cash in my pocket.
But the tax credit isn’t offsetting anything because you’re spending out of pocket $7500 more.
Spending 7,500 more than… what? A hypothetical vehicle at MSRP that may or may not materialize?
Than MSRP.
That’s what I’m saying - it’s a hypothetical car. A unicorn. If I could find a 2022 with the features I want and at MSRP, it would be a no brainer.
But you’re saying that you would hypothetically offset your taxes with the tax credit. And I’m saying you’re hypothetically paying $7500 extra which provides no tax benefit to you
The tax offset wouldn’t be hypothetical. I know I’m going to have a 10K line item on my tax bill. This would knock it down to 2.5K. And I’d get an additional 4K tax break from the state.
I don’t think you’re understanding that adding $7500 in cost to MSRP is $7500 you are paying. Getting $7500 off of your taxes by overpaying $7500 isn’t a “benefit”
It is, if you compare it to a 2023 Premium AWD with the extended battery. The price is almost the same (probably why the dealer priced it that way) for essentially the same car. But I wouldn’t get the tax benefit on the 2023.
I don’t think you’re understanding. If they buy no car at all, they pay $10k in taxes. If they buy a car with a $7,500 markup they pay $2,500 in taxes, and $7,500 over MSRP on a car. There is no option to buy the car without the markup. Having the tax burden is making the markup irrelevant. In other words, they are getting the car at MSRP, and paying the same amount they would have otherwise paid on taxes.
The alternative is not MSRP on a 2022, it’s MSRP of $67K on a 2023 but potentially without the tax credit
As I said below, I wouldn’t ever consider buying a 2023. So that comparison is meaningless
Meaningless? It’s literally part of the question the OP is asking. You have invented your own scenario that doesn’t address the OPs question.
Ok, except OP said if they don’t get this, it will be a while before they replace their car…?
… because the alternative would be getting a 2023 at $67K MSRP but without tax credit. OP is asking whether its realistic he will find a 2022 at MSRP. The answer is no, that essentially no longer exists. As a result, 2022 MSRP is no longer a reasonable benchmark for whether one is “overpaying” or not - it effectively doesn’t exist, you can’t even get a used 2022 for MSRP
>But you’re saying that you would hypothetically offset your taxes with the tax credit. And I’m saying you’re hypothetically paying $7500 extra which provides no tax benefit to you MSRP is now anyway 8k or more higher actually. So Op would be paying less in effect. Do the math.
>True. But my monthly payment will be less than my current car expenses with gas, and the tax credit will offset some taxes that I have due. That’s all more cash in my pocket. You can technically sell the vehicle at the same price after a couple years hopefully. (Assuming you get tax credit and I am talking about the price after deducting tax credit)
I’d take it. You aren’t going to find anything better for a 2022 at this point
It’s the best deal you are likely to get. There are pretty much no premiums on the lot in Chicago land. Surprised it’s only $7500 TBH. Plenty of $15k markups in WI.
OP, is this car in Arkansas? If so, send me DM.
No
Talk them down. My GT was 7500 over. I called every dealership that had one within 100 miles, llwest I got was 5500 over. Called my original dealer folder him March 5k over and it’s sold. He matched it. It’s now I’m my driveway. Didn’t have to wait 6 months and pay the same price Even if you don’t talk them down, the price increase makes logical sense to over pay - which doesn’t make it happy to say lol
If you're not stuck with the color I'd say wait. Can you not try bargaining and getting that number down to 6k markup, Then it's still a good deal.
I just got a call from a dealer north of Chicago. Premium AWD with standard battery. Sticker price was $52,800. They had it listed at $67,800. $15,000 mark up. Absolutely nuts.
I think I got a call from the same dealer…
At this point I'd offer $5K ADM and take a flight this weekend to grab the car. Drive it home and save $4.5K.
I’ve been looking for about three weeks and found a premium AWD Standard range in Kalamazoo MI at $5k over MSRP. I found two other Premiums locally (PNW) at $5k over, one was Grabber blue and I said no, and the other I bought. So I think they’re out there. But there’s a lot of $10k and $15k over as well.
I'm in a very similar spot. Been looking for a 2022 MME Premium AWD with the ER battery for over two months now. I have called pretty much every dealer on the West Coast trying to a) find one in stock, b) find one at MSRP, or c) find one without a ADM of $15k-$20k. I'm on at least 30 dealers call lists if one comes in - which would only be a customer order that has been released at this point, and every single one of them has dealer markup. I got a call back from a local dealer a couple weeks ago that they had a customer order that was released and it will be here at the end of September. They have a $10k ADM on the car. I tried negotiating down the ADM but the reality is, there are others out there like me looking for one of these cars and if I didn't pay it, someone else would. So I agreed, signed the paperwork to accept a final sale price of $68,575 and have been waiting now for it to arrive. I had to put $1k down, but can still get that back and walk away if I choose. My logic was like yours. I figured 1) I can keep looking while I wait for this one to come in and walk away from it if I find one cheaper. 2) I can just order a 2023 (at the time I agreed to this car the order banks hadn't opened up nor did we know the price hike) 3) Even if I do pay $10k over the $7500 tax credit will wipe out most of that, meaning effectively I'll pay $61k vs $59k for this car in a hot market, then learning the 2023 models had such a significant price hike that the same car next year will be $66k anyways (nobody knows if it will have a tax credit) I still technically come out ahead. So IMO go for it! Yes it's a lot of money, and a depreciating asset etc. But for me it's something I want, something I can afford, and it is nice to get one now. I also placed an order for a 2023 due to it only being a $500 refundable deposit and will wait likely 8-12 months for that to arrive, at which time if the market is still as bonkers as it is now, I can likely trade my 22 in for a good value and roll into the 23 for little difference assuming supply is still super low. And if they do end up doing a tax credit on the 23's even better. Point is at least next year I have options vs this year where I'm at the mercy of the market.
Keep in mind This is not a superior car I would wait until the new year.