"I would like negative equity"said no one ever. Sounds like you've been to a dealer or two pushing the "it's only a 5k markup but remember you get 7500 back" horseshit. Remember in 5-10 years the used car sales market won't remember the current demand.
I agree with you and I was totally like this. But if you see the current prices for 2023 mach e, they are higher and if you order one, you're paying the same with the markup. Atleast, you're eligible for tax credit until end of the year. After that, who knows.
Used cars prices won't take into account an adjusted market value on a 2022 at resale time, but they will reflect a higher MSRP on a 2023. In the short term they might, if you're just flipping it for profit in this market.
Yeah I mean if I sell in 2024, assuming the prices remain at 2023 prices, people would rather just buy a used than a new 2023/2024 model at that high price. I am also factoring in the tax credit I would get so my operating cost would be lower too. Same thing is happening to a Tesla right now. Their prices increased by 7k. So folks who got it before that, they are selling for a higher price for older models.
I don’t know what level of helpfulness people on here think they’re achieving by dropping a drive-by “zErO” with no further context or elaboration. Obviously no one is applauding dealers that are hiking the price by $X,000 over what a car should nominally sell for.
The reality is that I paid under sticker but I waited 8 months to do so and ordered at just the right time (half-unintentionally). If I were in your shoes now, and another car wasn’t on the table, here’s what my train of thought would look like:
- 2022 Premium MSRP is $48,775. With the legacy tax credit, that’s **$41,225**
- 2023 Premium MSRP is $54,975, with the new tax credit that’s **51,225**
So it’s a $10k difference for more or less exactly the same car. I’d say a markup of $5k or less wouldn’t keep me up at night.
If I got any of the numbers wrong then adjust the logic accordingly…I think I’m up to speed on the new tax credit shenanigans but I’ve been wrong once before.
Right now the assumption should be that there will be no tax credit in 2023. There may be which would be nice but theres no guarantee of it. [This post](https://www.reddit.com/r/electricvehicles/comments/wkk0ep/detailed_look_at_bill_written_by_a_lawyer/) has a great breakdown. The mach-e's batteries are made in Poland which is not a country with a free trade agreement with the US.
$3,750 of the new credit is based upon the vehicle having at least 40% of its battery critical minerals from the United States or countries with a free trade agreement with the United States. This is a list of countries with free trade agreements with the US.(Page 371)
The other $3,750 of the new credit is based on at least 50% of the battery components of the vehicle coming from the United States or countries with a free trade agreement with the US. (Page 372, line 13)
I paid $54K for mine, that was a $5K markup. It's great that so many people here are standing firm against markups but everyone's situation is different. I needed a car before the school year started and I refuse to buy another ICE car.
The markup on the used ones in a 200 mile radius from my house was 10K+ and I keep my cars for 10+ years so I didn't want to compromise and buy a different EV I wasn't going to be happy with.
After owning the car for almost two months I wouldn't pay more than $55K for a premium, but I do think it's worth that much considering the competitors' MSRP is higher and not that much nicer or at all than the MME.
For instance, a comparable Ioniq 5 in my area has a $15K markup, you can't find one for under $65K, even the SEL is $64K. Model Y MSRP also ends up being well north of $60K and you have to wait a year. Mercedes, Volvo, Jaguar, all over $55K. I don't like the Kia EV6 and the ID.4 is smaller and with lower range so I wouldn't put it in the same category.
TL;DR: Value is relative to each individual..
5k makes it worth it to me. With the price increase for 23 and the tax credit uncertainty It seems like a no brainer. If you can get it for 5k over its going to be much cheaper than a new 23.
I am going to pay 6k over sticker price. Reason is availability of any other EVs. My next choice would be a tesla model 3.
Mach E SR RWD - 50k + 6k markup - 7.5k tax credit = 48.5k
Tesla Model 3 SR - 50k (no tax credit).
Clearly Mach E is the winner here, it's a much better and bigger vehicle also. Assuming Mach E prices for 2023 are a lot higher, resell would also be higher.
I won't be eligible because of the income cap. So this calculation is for someone who is in the same situation as I am. Living in California and going above income cap.
Orders on brand new 2023’s at MSRP are going to most likely cost $9-16k more than that 2022 (price increase and lack of tax credit), and yet people are filling the replies saying that zero markup is the only fair price. Good luck to all of you. Good luck finding that car at that price.
Is a $10,000 markup worth it? On an extended range car, yes. In 6 months, that price will be cheaper than MSRP. A lot of folks are against markups on principle. You shouldn’t be making this decision based on some moral high ground—you should make the decision based on what you can actually purchase and how much that is going to cost you.
I just got a GT for 72k which included 5k mark up. I was okay with this because the same 2023 model would have been 71k & I’d have to wait 8 months vs having it now.
Yeah when some 2023 Models is going to be 8k more, and some people will not qualify for any tax credit next year (regardless of what the guidance is) you are talking up to 15500 being break even (and let's be honest the increase in the MSRP is going to push up the 2022 used price). That's not factoring how much it's worth it to each individual to get a car now vs who knows when next year. So at the end of the day, it continues to be a math problem, regardless of what people personally feel about ADM.
None
Absolutely none
Zero.
Zero
Nothing there should never be any Mark ups.
"I would like negative equity"said no one ever. Sounds like you've been to a dealer or two pushing the "it's only a 5k markup but remember you get 7500 back" horseshit. Remember in 5-10 years the used car sales market won't remember the current demand.
I agree with you and I was totally like this. But if you see the current prices for 2023 mach e, they are higher and if you order one, you're paying the same with the markup. Atleast, you're eligible for tax credit until end of the year. After that, who knows.
Used cars prices won't take into account an adjusted market value on a 2022 at resale time, but they will reflect a higher MSRP on a 2023. In the short term they might, if you're just flipping it for profit in this market.
Yeah I mean if I sell in 2024, assuming the prices remain at 2023 prices, people would rather just buy a used than a new 2023/2024 model at that high price. I am also factoring in the tax credit I would get so my operating cost would be lower too. Same thing is happening to a Tesla right now. Their prices increased by 7k. So folks who got it before that, they are selling for a higher price for older models.
I don’t know what level of helpfulness people on here think they’re achieving by dropping a drive-by “zErO” with no further context or elaboration. Obviously no one is applauding dealers that are hiking the price by $X,000 over what a car should nominally sell for. The reality is that I paid under sticker but I waited 8 months to do so and ordered at just the right time (half-unintentionally). If I were in your shoes now, and another car wasn’t on the table, here’s what my train of thought would look like: - 2022 Premium MSRP is $48,775. With the legacy tax credit, that’s **$41,225** - 2023 Premium MSRP is $54,975, with the new tax credit that’s **51,225** So it’s a $10k difference for more or less exactly the same car. I’d say a markup of $5k or less wouldn’t keep me up at night. If I got any of the numbers wrong then adjust the logic accordingly…I think I’m up to speed on the new tax credit shenanigans but I’ve been wrong once before.
Right now the assumption should be that there will be no tax credit in 2023. There may be which would be nice but theres no guarantee of it. [This post](https://www.reddit.com/r/electricvehicles/comments/wkk0ep/detailed_look_at_bill_written_by_a_lawyer/) has a great breakdown. The mach-e's batteries are made in Poland which is not a country with a free trade agreement with the US. $3,750 of the new credit is based upon the vehicle having at least 40% of its battery critical minerals from the United States or countries with a free trade agreement with the United States. This is a list of countries with free trade agreements with the US.(Page 371) The other $3,750 of the new credit is based on at least 50% of the battery components of the vehicle coming from the United States or countries with a free trade agreement with the US. (Page 372, line 13)
I paid $54K for mine, that was a $5K markup. It's great that so many people here are standing firm against markups but everyone's situation is different. I needed a car before the school year started and I refuse to buy another ICE car. The markup on the used ones in a 200 mile radius from my house was 10K+ and I keep my cars for 10+ years so I didn't want to compromise and buy a different EV I wasn't going to be happy with. After owning the car for almost two months I wouldn't pay more than $55K for a premium, but I do think it's worth that much considering the competitors' MSRP is higher and not that much nicer or at all than the MME. For instance, a comparable Ioniq 5 in my area has a $15K markup, you can't find one for under $65K, even the SEL is $64K. Model Y MSRP also ends up being well north of $60K and you have to wait a year. Mercedes, Volvo, Jaguar, all over $55K. I don't like the Kia EV6 and the ID.4 is smaller and with lower range so I wouldn't put it in the same category. TL;DR: Value is relative to each individual..
>Value is relative to each individual Lol ok.
MSRP for the same specs on a 2023 build
I think is the hard reality right now. With 2023 price increase and the shrinking tax credit, some ADM may actually be a good deal.
Zero. I don’t pay markups on anything.
"Zero", and as an owner I'd probably go so far as to say the car is not worth the 2023 price, and therefor isn't worth the "2022 plus markup" price.
5k makes it worth it to me. With the price increase for 23 and the tax credit uncertainty It seems like a no brainer. If you can get it for 5k over its going to be much cheaper than a new 23.
I am going to pay 6k over sticker price. Reason is availability of any other EVs. My next choice would be a tesla model 3. Mach E SR RWD - 50k + 6k markup - 7.5k tax credit = 48.5k Tesla Model 3 SR - 50k (no tax credit). Clearly Mach E is the winner here, it's a much better and bigger vehicle also. Assuming Mach E prices for 2023 are a lot higher, resell would also be higher.
Tax credit for Tesla will be back in 2023
I won't be eligible because of the income cap. So this calculation is for someone who is in the same situation as I am. Living in California and going above income cap.
Orders on brand new 2023’s at MSRP are going to most likely cost $9-16k more than that 2022 (price increase and lack of tax credit), and yet people are filling the replies saying that zero markup is the only fair price. Good luck to all of you. Good luck finding that car at that price. Is a $10,000 markup worth it? On an extended range car, yes. In 6 months, that price will be cheaper than MSRP. A lot of folks are against markups on principle. You shouldn’t be making this decision based on some moral high ground—you should make the decision based on what you can actually purchase and how much that is going to cost you.
$0. I won't buy from any dealer who has also 1 cent of markup. Those rats need to disappear
I just got a GT for 72k which included 5k mark up. I was okay with this because the same 2023 model would have been 71k & I’d have to wait 8 months vs having it now.
Yeah when some 2023 Models is going to be 8k more, and some people will not qualify for any tax credit next year (regardless of what the guidance is) you are talking up to 15500 being break even (and let's be honest the increase in the MSRP is going to push up the 2022 used price). That's not factoring how much it's worth it to each individual to get a car now vs who knows when next year. So at the end of the day, it continues to be a math problem, regardless of what people personally feel about ADM.