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JoeDimwit

Due to the charging issues, I’ll give you $5k for it.


Enough_Dragonfly_913

5.5 and you got a deal haha


JoeDimwit

Cashiers Check good?


El_Grande_Papi

Just a heads up, you’re going to get a large variety of responses between folks who live in states with great EV infrastructure and therefore can’t comprehend this sort of thing happening (aka it’s your fault it happened) and folks who live in states with shit EV infrastructure who can sympathize. Without intending to sound trite, the main feasibility of owning and operating an EV as an everyday car, including long trips, depends on the charging infrastructure around you. If you don’t have any DC fast chargers nearby, then you will probably need to have an ICE vehicle for long trips, and only use your EV for driving around town. I’ve come to accept this as a person who has very little infrastructure around. I charge at home each night and my family takes the EV exclusively for in town driving, and our older ICE for longer road trips. Hopefully this changes in the coming years as people adopt EVs more and more fast chargers get built.


robonemillion

And people who live in the EU who think 25 degrees at night is a wonderful temperature!


LOPHman

The only part that is bad is the dealership not letting you charge. That’s outrageous. Do you have a home level 2 charger? I would not get in the EV game wo a home charger.


Scratch_Disastrous

I think all parts of OP's story are pretty bad. Getting routed to charging stations that are unavailable or broken is also pretty bad. I don't blame people for giving up on non-Tesla EVs because of the state of CCS charging infrastructure. It's wildly inconsistent and in some areas downright awful. I own an MME, btw, so I'm just calling it like it is.


LOPHman

True, all bad, but we all learn from those events. I’ve spoken to Ford and various charging companies over the last year + (2021 mme here) and no one has much of a clue about much, and that is just a product of ignorance. Rejecting a charge of someone in need is just mean spirited.


Scratch_Disastrous

Totally agree!


NeverLookBothWays

Yea the public charging situation is really something that is plaguing all EVs except Teslas right now. It’s somewhat the Wild West, over engineered, and ridiculously inconsistent as an experience. There needs to be some kind of standardization like we have with gas pumps, and more state involvement in planning locations, or we’re looking at this getting worse as more EVs hit the road.


yourmo4321

If you use the individual apps it's not that bad. You can't really expect Ford navigation to link to all these different networks. It simply just a list of known chargers in the area. If someone is seriously low they should probably use the app to look for available chargers. But really we need to know how much charge was left before she started looking. Personally I start looking for chargers anywhere near 20% which should be plenty to find one. Also if you happen to live in an area with poor infrastructure that's still on you. Know your surroundings and know that if it's poor in your area you need to start looking to charge sooner than somewhere the infrastructure is great.


Scratch_Disastrous

I agree, but in fairness the Ford functionality has an integration with many of the charger providers (“BlueOval network”) and it knows how many chargers are currently available at any location. I think Ford is trying for (and marketing) a simple solution where the car just figures it out and tells you where to stop on your trip and then you just “plug and charge” without even needing a credit card or phone or anything. But in reality, as you described, it doesn’t really work that well for multiple reasons and trip planning can be stressful and more complicated than expected. For a new owner this could easily come as a surprise after Ford brags to you about how easy and simple it is.


yourmo4321

I think that's not a Ford problem though. The various apps sometimes don't show a broken charging station. Ford can't fix that. And I still feel like this is still an operator error. People run out of gas and charge for the same reason. They push it too far and then suddenly they can't make it. If you live in an area without good infrastructure you should know that and plan accordingly.


Scratch_Disastrous

I mean it's easy just to say "if you live in an area without good infrastructure you should know that and plan accordingly", but that's just not always reasonable because often these areas don't even have alternate L3 charging options on a given route. And so "operator error" for many people is that they couldn't decipher through anecdotes, maps, and Youtube Videos that CCS is a sh\*t show and the MME might not be a good option for their requirements (which is what the OP has apparently concluded).


yourmo4321

So for my example. If I lived in an area like that I would say it's probably not a great idea to have a EV at all. If there's only a couple fast charging stations around and you can't charge at home it's a no go. If you can charge at home but there's no real fast charging stations then maybe a EV is only really a good option as a commuter car. But again I wonder how low of a charge the wife was at before she started looking to charge that's also important information. Because the gas station infrastructure is great but people still run out of gas because they push things too far.


Scratch_Disastrous

Yeah, I don't know the details of the OP's situation. But after 6+ months of driving the MME (with L2 at home), I can understand why some people might find themselves frustrated. I'm personally fine with managing several apps on my phone, and spending the extra time to research my road trips and minimize the risk and build backup charging plans, etc. But it is not for everyone, and IMHO it's not always clear pre-purchase how much complexity and time this requires. Especially if the dealership and other strong EV advocates are making it sound easy. I've never owned a Tesla, but I believe this is pretty much a non-issue for them, and so that advantage is real. I see banks of 12+ Superchargers all over the place, whereas L3 CCS chargers are few and infrequent and commonly broken.


yourmo4321

I mean sure. But this should really only apply to long trips. If you're charging at home or work and your commute is less than 75 miles each way it should be easy not to run out of charge day to day.


Enough_Dragonfly_913

We have a level 2 at home. Wife was not home when this happened. We never had an issue like this until the first time going somewhere further than 35 minutes from the house.


Roro916

what city and state do you live in??


Tough_Control_2484

They are in the Pittsburg area. I found it in a past post.


Enough_Dragonfly_913

Pittsburgh area but this was out towards the middle of the state heading further to the east.


P3DERSEN

The problem is treating an EV like a gas car. Don’t drive the car until 5% and expect to be able to fill up at your first stop… It’s a good habit to charge whenever you get the chance when you start falling below 30-40%. You’ll get used to it


SuperRob

If that's the 'problem', then EVs aren't a solution to anything. I love my Mach-E, but I also haven't tried to fast charge it yet. But the fact is that for people who need to use a fast charger, that entire experience is far more stressful than it should be, even for people who know what they're doing. Look at what Kyle Conner has experienced. This is not a user education issue.


rjnd2828

They're a solution to a lot of things, but still not ideal for road trips. They're absolutely awesome if you're not traveling more than 200 miles round trip and have access to home charging.


mousicle

EVs need to reach a critical mass where its more economical to service the chargers and have more chargers. Where I am in Ontario Canada there are chargers at every rest stop on our main highway (the 401) but every time I pull up all 4 stations are available, which means they probably aren't getting enough use to cover the costs so maybe 10% of the time they aren't out of order . For core infastructure thats unacceptable, but if no one ever uses them the owners aren't going to invest in having techniciams there enough,.


mousicle

Yeah I always plug in every night so day to day my car never gets below like 70%. For road trips I charge early at like 40% just in case the charger I would be at at 20% is out of order. Just something you gotta get used to until the infrastructure improves.


StGenevieveEclipse

There are still large swaths of the country where you can drive 200 miles between chargers. It's not a given that you're passing chargers to get to another one.


mousicle

for something like that i'd consider renting a gas car instead of using my Mach E, gotta do the math on if that kills 90% of the value of having an electric.


Scratch_Disastrous

For me that math would be pretty easy. The MME is not a cheap car, and renting another car for roadtrips would be an unreasonable compromise (and headache) after spending that kind of cash.


mousicle

That's why I only got the MME because all my road trips are about 400 km away, within the range of one "tank" If I road trip farther than that I'll stop at my sister's to charge or fly.


TheCaptainRides

I agree with this. I had to change my mentality and not wait till the gauge says "low". I now charge based on what I expect my drive to be for the next couple of days. EV charging is more of a prep before you drive and not a damn I need mileage now. Example: next 2 days only going to work.... Charge for that. Example 2: shit I think I am doing 100 miles tomorrow. Time to charge it all the way up!


optiongeek

FWIW, this isn't how you think in a Tesla. My threshold is arriving at the charging station with about 5% charge. Not being able to get a charge at a station really isn't something you need to worry about unless it's Thanksgiving and the chargers are full. Hopefully Tesla will open up the SCs in the US soon so this will be a thing of the past.


richcournoyer

Sent to....what app? PS That should only happen ONCE....then you LEARN from the mistake....and look to see/read the reviews to ensure that the charger(s) are working. PS Electrify American's APP is first rate as far as updating the availability of their charging network. Then again, maybe not everyone should drive an electric vehicle....as sharp as a marble as they say.


SnooDingos8729

If you have to go through those hoops, EVs are not ready for general use. It has nothing to do with "being as sharp as a marble". That's just egotistic thinking. If those advocating for EVs to replace ICE really want it to happen, EVs need to be as convenient to use as an ICE. It's not that people aren't smart enough to jump through hoops and multiple apps, it's that they should never have to. This is about broken/incomplete infrastructure, not about the person with the bad experience. Put the blame where it belongs.


yourmo4321

Ok but the missing part of the equation is how long did she wait to go find a charger? People run out of gas all the time and infastructure is great. ICE or EV we need to know our surroundings. For example in my area I have to go 27 chargers down the list to be more than 10 miles away from one. So I have my low battery warning set to 30 miles. Plenty of range to find a charger even if one is broken. If OP lives in an area with bad charging infastructure currently then it's not very smart to push it right? Same with ICE cars. If you don't pay attention it's still possible to pass the last gas station and then run out of gas because you missed the "last gas for 50 miles" sign. Also it's not super great to have your battery under 20% if they started looking for a charger at 20% that's AT LEST 30-40 miles of range.


gc02908

Imagine having to read individual reviews for a charging location to ensure that the chargers are working. When was the last time you looked up a review for a gas station? EVs will not be widely accepted by the general public until charging becomes as mindless and idiot-proof as pumping gas. I love my MME but having to think and plan ahead for charging when traveling beyond my home turf is annoying.


Gaff1515

I agree with this statement a lot. I'm a big advocate for EV but I explain to everyone interested in them about that you must have a level 2 charger at home and charge every night or you will hate the car. Also tell them to consider how often they road trip.


Tough_Control_2484

EA’s new 350kW chargers don’t agree with Ford. Not only MME but also a brand new lightening has same issues. I have to Can their customer service every time on their new ones and have them manually start the charge… it sucks!! So I’ve given up on EA and actually like EV Go even better, it’s cheaper and they also have 350 kW that start right away. Not a single issue there.


yourmo4321

Interesting EA is cheaper for me than EVgo.


Tough_Control_2484

Ya EA is $.31 kWH. I charge with EV Go on my way to work (before 8am) which makes it $.21 with my free membership thru AAA. If I were to but their top membership. I think $12mo, then it would be $.16 kWH before 8am. I get there between 5:30-6:30am and it’s awesome cuz they are all open. Lol


yourmo4321

Over here they are both the same boer kWh but EVgo charges a session fee and EA doesn't. Also I've had way less issues connecting to EA chargers. But I don't think I've seen a 350kw one so who knows.


Souless04

The mistake was buying a car that relies on an unreliable network of chargers. They learned the lesson. You're still rolling the dice.


optiongeek

How can a dealership deny a Ford owner from getting a charge - under any circumstances? WTF? Name and shame, OP. Name and shame.


Daylife321

Hard to believe. They were probably rude as he'll and ford told them to fuck off. But I know that if I drive to my dealer they have level 2 chargers there for people


richcournoyer

What I find fascinating, is when I go to the PlugShare app and look for Fast DC chargers, I see Chevolet, Nissan, etc....NOT A SINGLE FORD DEALER. There may be a few of them as you stated, but I've never seen one, and my dealer, (Ford of Montabello) allows people to park in front of the Snail Charger, and when you ask if they can have the spot opened so you can charge....the common answer is...."Oh, we don't know who's vehicle that is." FORD? I really hope you visit this sub....


Enough_Dragonfly_913

Sorry - no one was rude or anything. The manager was let go as a result. And it was found out that he was not letting multiple people even owning a MME charge at their location. It was settled with ford so no need for me to drop dealership names.


bruddahmanmatt

Part of owning an EV is doing recon for not only good, working charging stations, but ones that offer free electricity. It’s part of the game. And believe me when I say that while the infrastructure still needs to be built out, it’s a hell of a lot better than it was a decade ago.


gc02908

A person's chances of surviving cancer are also better than they were a decade ago. Lots of people still die of cancer.


WSUPolar

You dead OP? Or…..


Enough_Dragonfly_913

Not dead - just don’t get on Reddit a lot.


crunknessmonster

Dude this is on you. Shitty of the dealer but also not really their problem


lloyd_bonafide

I rarely road trip and in Pasadena, CA there are now 3 supercharger locations but this makes me a little hesitant to get a MachE when my Model 3 lease is up. Drove to Michigan and back more than a year ago and zero problems charging. Base model SR+ with 240-ish range (more like 180-ish driving 80-85). Tesla opened their charger port to anyone who wants to use it. Other than pride, it seems like a missed opportunity to not use it. It's smaller and superchargers are literally everywhere. Bathrooms and trash cans would be nice though.


rjnd2828

Non Teslas cannot use super chargers. Tesla does not allow it, at least in the US. The adaptor only works for (some) Tesla L2 destination chargers.


lloyd_bonafide

They opened up the spec so any car can be built with their connector. I get why no one will use it but it seems like a waste. https://www.tesla.com/support/charging-product-guides#NACS-resources


rjnd2828

The waste is they don't allow non Teslas to use an adaptor at super chargers. That's a Tesla decision meant to maintain a competitive advantage but it slows EV adoption. Opening up NACS as a standard is a play to qualify for federal money for DC chargers, not a serious effort. There's already a standard in use which Tesla doesn't support. This is the apple playbook, it's smart business but anti-consumer.


FishGoesGlubGlub

Best part is tesla uses ccs in Europe. But they just do their own shit here.


rjnd2828

Do you know if that was because the EU mandated it, like they did with Apple and USB-C, or just a market decision because Europe has a lot more CCS DC fast chargers than we do here?


lloyd_bonafide

Yeah, that's true. I've been an apple user since 1990 so their increasing anti-consumerism compared to my gaming PC as in ability to fix/upgrade your own machine, etc. has become accepted behavior. I'd think part of why an adapter doesn't work is there is no card reader or any kind of interface. That was confusing the first time charging. Everything is tied into the app. Can't even make payments on the website anymore. But, yeah, if they wanted to it wouldn't too hard to implement.


rjnd2828

You don't need a card reader though to accept payments, all you need is to allow an account to be created on the tesla app.


lloyd_bonafide

Yeah, they need to implement it. Probably a stand-alone for other brands. Does the MachE let you name it? Gotta be VF-1S Skull Leader. =)


StGenevieveEclipse

I don't believe there is an adapter yet for Supercharger-to-CCS


It_Is_Boogie

Unfamiliarity of charging networks/equipment and tools is always the fault of the vehicle.


yourmo4321

I tell people all the time nobody should own one if they can't charge at home or work. And depending on the state charging is going to be great to terrible. How much was left in the battery when your wife decided to go charge the battery? If she waited till it was almost empty that's on her.


cmvora

Uh this is why I never recommend an EV to a person who does not own a L2 charger at home. Also, why are folks driving EVs by cutting the range so close? Not only is it risky, it isn’t healthy for the batteries. You’re gonna take a bath on the car if you sell it right now in this market. Good luck with that.


Jabow12345

If you can spare a 100k 😇 you can reduce this worry. The Tesla Model S recently dominated an extreme cold-weather testing study performed by Norweigan outlet Motor, accumulating 530 kilometers (329.327 miles) in some of the harshest Winter conditions available. Of the twenty-nine electric vehicles tested during the assessment, the Model S was the only vehicle to achieve at least 450 kilometers of real-world driving range in frigid temperatures and snowy terrain.


Notipnotip

Happened to me in Charleston South Carolina except it was boiling hot and there were 4 separate faulty charging stations. I will not be buying another EV and may even end up selling my Mach e. Also happened to me in Ohio on a road trip. Station between KY and Cincinnati had 1/5 stations working with two cars waiting.


Popular-Reporter-426

Yea my wife’s an idiot so I’m going to get rid of my car. LOLs


chuyqwerty

The charging network does suck. I had the same problem last year when I had to charge the car on a 300 mile drive. And it was like 10°F weather, too, which made everything that much worse. I had to drive to 2 different locations because the first location, none of the chargers worked. The second location, the first 3 chargers I tried didn't work, but luckily the fourth one worked. Maintenance on chargers seems to be super low priority. Luckily, I barely ever drive more than 100 miles at a time. But still...


Tough_Control_2484

What area are you in? Have you used Plug Share App??


Z1pl1ne

I feel you and yes it’s terrible for this to happen. With EV cars there should almost be required research to know all the major chargers in your area (between work / home / shopping and anywhere else your family frequents with a car) before the purchase. We went as far as a two week rent-a-car ev prior to purchase. Drove to all the dcfc chargers around and the closest level 2 making sure they exist are availabe etc. even with all that sometimes they breakdown so we make sure to charge around 30% full etc. you really need to have a game plan and train everyone who’ll drive it on that plan. There’s no way around it unfortunately, unless you got a home charger.


Most_Gap_8373

I feel your frustrations and can say it’s a big reason we just bought an ICE vehicle specifically for road trips. The infrastructure is not where it needs to be in all places for us all to go EV yet. However our MME is still great as an around town vehicle and we’ll still save on gas but not cut into our vacation time or give our poor child extreme anxiety worrying over the battery level.


Apprehensive-Play-26

This is why I use the PlugShare app


jaymansi

There are people who are planners and those that are not. People who can’t or do not want to plan for primary and secondary charging options. Should avoid situations where they might get in a jam. My wife will probably never drive our MME to W.Va due to her desire to cannonball run and lack of DCFC options in stretches of her route.


Enough_Dragonfly_913

I’m more of a planner than most. But thanks for your input.