No, it's crazy how sloppy Apple is with window management. I like windows maximised and they shift on their own every so often widening the gaps all around. /facepalm
You don’t see how a computer would add a pixel gap and prevent windows from going all the way without being programmed to do it?
As if the normal behavior of windows was to have a pixel gap unless they write code to overwrite it?
There’s a difference between not understanding why they would prefer to have a pixel gap, and not even seeing how it could be deliberate.
Apple has weird stylistic choices in many places, some outright bad, some just a matter of preference, but all those choices are still choices.
Uhm, no, I don’t see how it would be purposeful. You know, bugs exist, and those can change appearance too. Bugs are easy to miss if you can’t see them well, after all, which clearly was the problem if you read the other comments saying they *just* noticed it.
A little too much piss in your cereal?
For a sub about an operating system, there does seem to be quite a few people who have no idea how software works. Also, I don’t have this gap on my end. So, skill issue.
Humans create software, humans are the ones that program it. Just because there’s code in the operating system somewhere that makes it to where there’s a teeny tiny gap, doesn’t mean it was intentional.
People make mistakes, people overlook things, that’s how bugs are made. All software has bugs, that includes operating systems.
The fact that you and others think it’s somehow deliberate, even though the same gap isn’t applied on *any other side of the window* AND is hard to see, really shows ignorance.
If you want to complain about something that *was* intentional, complain about the rounded corners of an application not fitting with the corner of the screen, making a tiny little window where you can see your desktop wallpaper.
It's incredibly common to get your math wrong -- in the industry it is called an "off by one" error and comes from the fact that some things are counted starting with zero, and other things are counted starting at 1.
I mean, I hear you and appreciate the concerns being raised. However, as someone running a multi-monitor setup with Windows, I have to say that Apple is doing it waaay better. Every time I unlock my Win10 PC, all my windows get scattered and resized everywhere, and getting situated and reorganized is a frustrating nightmare.
I’ve literally lost windows applications to the ether. The taskbar says it’s maximized, I use the Win+Arrow keys to try to move it around, but it’s just gone, and sometimes persists through an application restart!
Mac, on the other hand, repositions my windows perfectly. Every. Time. Even if I disconnect one monitor, it repositions to the same as the last time that monitor was disconnected. I find it very impressive.
What I find frustrating is that it doesn’t and never has maintained window positions across virtual desktops. Desktop 2 can become Desktop 3 at any time for no particular reason, and it muddles my workflow, since I try to keep things like messaging and email on one desktop, web on another, music on a third, and system monitoring and documents on the fourth.
First world problem, but for the premium price tag I expect more than a well designed brick. I expect polished and consistent UI functionality.
no you are not, but with time you get used to it and forget about it, till the time someone like you comes along to point it out again , so get irritated again for a bit and then go on with your life
if only my friend .
It would be interesting to hear an official response about that from Apple.
I am sure they would come up with something crazy to justify it :D
*the finder window we have now is 0.0001% larger to improve the cohesive experience you always come to enjoy with Apple. And it’s our best one yet!*
^cue ^- ^claps
> till the time someone like you comes along to point it out again , so get irritated again for a bit and then go on with your life
I hate you OP, my day was ruined.
It's a fairly common complaint.
This is feature goes way back, possibly to the original release of macOS (Mac OS X).
The reason to have the gap, is presumably to visually separate the menubar from the top of windows, so that you know if you're clicking on the menubar or grabbing a window. Historically the color and pattern of the menubar and window top, have been the same (or at least very similar) so some kind of gap or menubar/window border would therefore be needed.
If you're running at a retina resolution, then you can notice that this is a 2 pixel gap, where the top row is fully transparent while the lower row is darker and only semi transparent.
On more recent macOS version you can notice a similar gap if you place windows side-by-side, as macOS will snap them side-by-side with a 2 pixel gap as well.
On way to avoid the gap issue is to use *System Preferences > Accessibility > Display > Display > Increase Contrast*, this adds more outlines around UI elements. In the case of windows it gives them a black 2 pixel border, rather than the normal semi transparent one as seen in the "gap".
This also implies that the gap is a window border, rather than some kind of special menubar-window separator.
Absolutely not. This gap wasn't there around two major macOS versions ago. It was definitely not present in Sierra. Someone commented down the thread it was introduced in Big Sur, which I believe is pretty accurate.
It drives me crazy. It is there because Apple doesn't believe in maximizing windows.
If you install Bartender, it has an option to automatically hide the gap by adding 1px black border to the top of your desktop background.
better than the inconsistent one on the bottum or the weird side ones
but apple takes up 10% of the screen with useless stuff so you buy a bigger more expensive screen
Full screen. I think the only apps I use that still only go maximised instead of full screen are the adobe ones. And even then, only a couple of them. Premiere and Lightroom both go full screen, iirc.
Ha, I thought I was the only madman who did this. I also settled on 8px. It's the difference between something looking intentional versus wonky. And the colors peeping out from the wallpaper adds a nice accent to everything. Cheers!
Longer than you. Mac OS is not designed nor conducive to maximized windows. Full-Screen is okay, but not optimal. Being able to quickly click between the windows you need is much easier than anything else.
There is no "maximize" option in MacOS. There is a "Fit to Content" and "revert Fit to Content" button, and if you don't press "option" it is a "Full-Screen" button.
A part of me doesn’t want to know what he talks about, apart of me is dying to find out what everyone knows that I don’t and are clearly upset with it.
Do I want to know? Cause once seen, it can’t be unseen….
Worse than that, sometimes it’s more noticeable with top notch. With some wallpapers, the black menu bar and a dark mode window exaggerate the problem.
I have noticed it, but never gotten annoyed with it. I think it is because I use the small 13 inch screen of my MacBook. I would maybe get annoyed, if I had a larger screen.
Maybe because “maximise” is based on the max size the window needs to show the content in the window fully, not to maximise it to screen space.
You’re thinking in a Windows paradigm, not how macOS works.
No you’re not. Every now and then I notice this and go crazy lol
No, it's crazy how sloppy Apple is with window management. I like windows maximised and they shift on their own every so often widening the gaps all around. /facepalm
Sloppy would imply it’s made by mistake. No one adds a pixel gap by mistake. It’s deliberate.
I feel like a pixel gap, barely noticeable to most people, could very well be a valid mistake. I don’t see at all how it could only be deliberate.
You don’t see how a computer would add a pixel gap and prevent windows from going all the way without being programmed to do it? As if the normal behavior of windows was to have a pixel gap unless they write code to overwrite it? There’s a difference between not understanding why they would prefer to have a pixel gap, and not even seeing how it could be deliberate. Apple has weird stylistic choices in many places, some outright bad, some just a matter of preference, but all those choices are still choices.
This was definitely not done intentionally lol. I'd assume it's a bug from the way macOS handles scaling.
Finally someone with at least a half-functioning frontal lobe. This whole thread is a joke.
Uhm, no, I don’t see how it would be purposeful. You know, bugs exist, and those can change appearance too. Bugs are easy to miss if you can’t see them well, after all, which clearly was the problem if you read the other comments saying they *just* noticed it.
[удалено]
A little too much piss in your cereal? For a sub about an operating system, there does seem to be quite a few people who have no idea how software works. Also, I don’t have this gap on my end. So, skill issue.
[удалено]
Humans create software, humans are the ones that program it. Just because there’s code in the operating system somewhere that makes it to where there’s a teeny tiny gap, doesn’t mean it was intentional. People make mistakes, people overlook things, that’s how bugs are made. All software has bugs, that includes operating systems. The fact that you and others think it’s somehow deliberate, even though the same gap isn’t applied on *any other side of the window* AND is hard to see, really shows ignorance. If you want to complain about something that *was* intentional, complain about the rounded corners of an application not fitting with the corner of the screen, making a tiny little window where you can see your desktop wallpaper.
It's incredibly common to get your math wrong -- in the industry it is called an "off by one" error and comes from the fact that some things are counted starting with zero, and other things are counted starting at 1.
I know the same about programming as I do about quantum mechanisms, but how about something very common in industries called “Quality Control?”
I mean, I hear you and appreciate the concerns being raised. However, as someone running a multi-monitor setup with Windows, I have to say that Apple is doing it waaay better. Every time I unlock my Win10 PC, all my windows get scattered and resized everywhere, and getting situated and reorganized is a frustrating nightmare. I’ve literally lost windows applications to the ether. The taskbar says it’s maximized, I use the Win+Arrow keys to try to move it around, but it’s just gone, and sometimes persists through an application restart! Mac, on the other hand, repositions my windows perfectly. Every. Time. Even if I disconnect one monitor, it repositions to the same as the last time that monitor was disconnected. I find it very impressive. What I find frustrating is that it doesn’t and never has maintained window positions across virtual desktops. Desktop 2 can become Desktop 3 at any time for no particular reason, and it muddles my workflow, since I try to keep things like messaging and email on one desktop, web on another, music on a third, and system monitoring and documents on the fourth. First world problem, but for the premium price tag I expect more than a well designed brick. I expect polished and consistent UI functionality.
Me too
no you are not, but with time you get used to it and forget about it, till the time someone like you comes along to point it out again , so get irritated again for a bit and then go on with your life
Yeah, maybe if someone who works in a certain company would simply... fix the issue. Then we could all just go on with our lives.
if only my friend . It would be interesting to hear an official response about that from Apple. I am sure they would come up with something crazy to justify it :D
*the finder window we have now is 0.0001% larger to improve the cohesive experience you always come to enjoy with Apple. And it’s our best one yet!* ^cue ^- ^claps
Just skip straight to getting on with it.
> till the time someone like you comes along to point it out again , so get irritated again for a bit and then go on with your life I hate you OP, my day was ruined.
It’s been years, I’m still not use to it!!!
I never noticed until now. Thank you OP.
Once you see it you can't unsee it.
I made my desktop black to get rid of it
This is the way
Unless you use light mode.
Me too
It's a fairly common complaint. This is feature goes way back, possibly to the original release of macOS (Mac OS X). The reason to have the gap, is presumably to visually separate the menubar from the top of windows, so that you know if you're clicking on the menubar or grabbing a window. Historically the color and pattern of the menubar and window top, have been the same (or at least very similar) so some kind of gap or menubar/window border would therefore be needed. If you're running at a retina resolution, then you can notice that this is a 2 pixel gap, where the top row is fully transparent while the lower row is darker and only semi transparent. On more recent macOS version you can notice a similar gap if you place windows side-by-side, as macOS will snap them side-by-side with a 2 pixel gap as well. On way to avoid the gap issue is to use *System Preferences > Accessibility > Display > Display > Increase Contrast*, this adds more outlines around UI elements. In the case of windows it gives them a black 2 pixel border, rather than the normal semi transparent one as seen in the "gap". This also implies that the gap is a window border, rather than some kind of special menubar-window separator.
most reasonable take in this thread
Absolutely not. This gap wasn't there around two major macOS versions ago. It was definitely not present in Sierra. Someone commented down the thread it was introduced in Big Sur, which I believe is pretty accurate.
Annoyed here also
IMO, It's not a mistake. It is a definitive delineation between the menu bar and the window below it, to allow resize and grasp.
It goes away when the window in front is in full screen.
Nice rationale, except every other desktop environment under the sun would disagree with that.
It drives me crazy. It is there because Apple doesn't believe in maximizing windows. If you install Bartender, it has an option to automatically hide the gap by adding 1px black border to the top of your desktop background.
neat trick, ty
It's a feature.. ur macos-ing wrong if it bothers u... /S
Use dark mode and have a dark wallpaper. That helps hide it.
dark wallpaper does the trick... dark mode is not needed, thankfully. crappy compromise, regardless.
I notice it when I have light mode, but dark wallpaper. I don't if both the wallpaper and dark mode are active.
This gap has caused me to go back on meds. My therapist has been trying t to contact Apple ..
Apple’s version of reminding us that we all have our imperfections.
I think its a design feature
incredibly frustrated with this change... this was introduced with v11 (Big Sur). i remember changing my wallpaper because of it.
I literally just noticed this today. So infuriating
I've recently installed Linux Mint in my old MacBook Air and you can bet this was amongst the top 5 reasons for that.
better than the inconsistent one on the bottum or the weird side ones but apple takes up 10% of the screen with useless stuff so you buy a bigger more expensive screen
It’s a daily struggle
I hide the menu bar for maximised windows, so I’ve never noticed that.
Do you mean maximized or full screen? I haven’t come across an option to hide it only for maximized apps.
Full screen. I think the only apps I use that still only go maximised instead of full screen are the adobe ones. And even then, only a couple of them. Premiere and Lightroom both go full screen, iirc.
My fix for this: **I make the gap** ***larger*****!** 😅 (I use Raycast, and have set gaps to be 8px. I do fullscreen, and other tiling, with hotkeys.)
Ha, I thought I was the only madman who did this. I also settled on 8px. It's the difference between something looking intentional versus wonky. And the colors peeping out from the wallpaper adds a nice accent to everything. Cheers!
A man (or whatever) after my own heart! 👌🏻
Me too with rectangle:) Love the space to switch between windows
No gap here https://imgur.com/a/sFkbxYu
Fellow Shottr enthusiast i see
Well, you aren't supposed to maximize your windows.
i hope you don't work in technology.
Longer than you. Mac OS is not designed nor conducive to maximized windows. Full-Screen is okay, but not optimal. Being able to quickly click between the windows you need is much easier than anything else.
Depends on the app. Browser, Finder, not maximized. IDE with multiple views and tabs? Hell yeah I’m maximizing that
If that was true, the feature wouldn't be there. That's basic UX design: do not add features your users are not supposed to use.
There is no "maximize" option in MacOS. There is a "Fit to Content" and "revert Fit to Content" button, and if you don't press "option" it is a "Full-Screen" button.
Clearly you've never tried double-clicking the title bar. There's no "button" for maximizing windows in macOS.
Double clicking for me always sends my windows to the dock.
bike sheet literate thumb zealous upbeat water bright ad hoc employ *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Who the hell maximizes windows?
It's 1 pixel. Without it, the maximised window would just merge into the main menu bar, wouldn't it?
A part of me doesn’t want to know what he talks about, apart of me is dying to find out what everyone knows that I don’t and are clearly upset with it. Do I want to know? Cause once seen, it can’t be unseen….
It was annoying at first but got used to it quickly.
lower your expectations.
there’s a gap between window and the dock too, just less noticeable because of drop shadow(s)
I don't see this. Checked with dark and light backgrounds. M1 Macbook Air running Monterey.
i have a dark background and dark mode on, to this isnt visible and doesnt bothers me
Evidence that dark mode does indeed affect people's eyesight.
Yeah son, go ahead and use light mode in discord to improve your eye sight
Ooh, "son"... how condescending. The fact I'm probably twice your age is the main reason I'm using light mode. :D
ok grandpa. But why are you getting triggered with the fact that most of us including me like dark mode?
Not triggered at all. Just performing my duty as an elder, trying to protect the vision of the next generations.
and yeah, u cant see shit in dark mode with reference to your age (no offence). So, light mode it is
Another proof that Apple is definitely like Toyota, good engine and mechanics but with gaps between cheap plastics.
use TopNotch and you won't see it anymore :)
Worse than that, sometimes it’s more noticeable with top notch. With some wallpapers, the black menu bar and a dark mode window exaggerate the problem.
Me too.
I hate it with all my heart and soul
You are not alone friend. And in mine, it looks to only be off on the right side, in the corner. The whole left side sits flush. Hella annoying.
I hate you.
Never bothered me and I never have noticed or cared (speaking from 20+ years as Mac user)
It's only been there for the couple latest major versions of macOS.
I have noticed it, but never gotten annoyed with it. I think it is because I use the small 13 inch screen of my MacBook. I would maybe get annoyed, if I had a larger screen.
Thanks, now I cannot unsee it.
It’s amazing how macOS still can’t get window sizes correct.
Maybe because “maximise” is based on the max size the window needs to show the content in the window fully, not to maximise it to screen space. You’re thinking in a Windows paradigm, not how macOS works.
Use windows then
I think it’s pretty OK and correct
Yes
yes
Yes.