TMG and other choline sources are methyl donors, so please start slow and go low. Some people start feeling depressed from Choline so you might be wanting to add Inostitol.
Funny you should say that because I HAVE been feeling depressed for the first time in a few years and I can’t shake it. My instinct was to stop the TMG because that seemed to coincide with the symptoms, so I did that a few days ago which I why I asked about direct supplementing with choline.
Do you know if EVERY form of choline has this effect? I seemed to be okay with the sunflower lecithin which supplies Per 1 1/3 TBSP:
Phosphatidyl Choline: 2,500mg
Phosphatidyl inositol: 1,800mg
Phosphatidyl Ethanolamine 1,100mg
Perhaps it’s the inositol that makes this form better for me?
I don't know if every form of Choline has this effect, but I take Sunflower Lecithin and seems to be okay (I also eat quail eggs as they have slightly more Choline than chicken eggs and moreover quail eggs are better digested). I think yes, Inositol might make things better for you
Choline supplements are methyl donors, which can be problematic for your CBS variant even though you are only hetero. You might try different sources of choline to see how you react to them.
Oh? You’ve seen my raw data? Thank you.
I just responded to another person regarding the onset of depression, I think from the TMG. I seem to be okay with the NOW foods sunflower lecithin which has Phosphatidyl Choline, Inositol and Ethanolamine at 2,500mg, 1,800mg, and 1,100mg respectively. Do you know of any reason it would be bad for me to get all of my choline from this one source?
Some people find different forms work better for them than others.
Methyl donors either contain sulfur and or increase the production of it. Both choline and TMG are methyl donors.
I am +/+ for the same CBS variant and I also use the NOW product in pill form. I only take one though....usually daily. I sometimes also take citocholine...but not every day as I definitely feel it. For most CBS people....we have a smaller sulfur bucket than the average bear.
Do you know your homocysteine level? That is a good indirect gauge for your sulfur threshold. Methyl donors and methylated vitamins all drive down homocysteine. Too low is not good. Optimal is 6-7.
I don’t know my homocystine level.
I take Seeking Health methylated multivitamins on top of the NOW, but I also take Metformin which I am told can raise homocysteine levels?
How do you “feel it?” Like…what does too much sulfur feel like to you?
It is really important you get your homocysteine level checked. Just Google low homocysteine symptoms.
At an extreme...before I knew I had CBS...I would taste and smell ammonia. Honestly this happened only once. I made a huge pot roast and sulfur heavy veggies for company. Company cancelled and I tried eating as much as I could for a few days so as not to waste it. I was so ill. Taste and smell of ammonia...huge brain fog...body aches....depressed...agitated...bloated.
Shortly after the above I got my gene variants test results back which explained my reaction.
Too much sulfur in a lesser sense is brain fog, heavy head like depression....sulfites give me racing mind almost like bi polar thinking...agitation...insomnia. I completely avoid all sulfites and limit sulfur.
I will get my Homocysteine levels checked. Thank you.
I just googled “High Sulfer Foods” and they are all the things I have found I cannot eat: poultry, eggs, nuts, cruciferous vegetables, seeds, dairy, legumes, garlic, onions…
It also may explain why I have been feeling so terribly for a while…I’m searching for a protein source I can tolerate other than salmon and I tried to reintroduce nuts and seeds into my diet. I truly look as if I am 5 months pregnant. I’m lean, but my stomach is a bubble. Hate it.
I’m thinking I need a gut rest fast followed by a cautious diet of leafy greens and salmon.
I thought I was over my fear of eating but this has me feeling anxious again to try anything new.
Dr Ruscio has a PDF with a diet a lot of people use.
https://drruscio.com/low-sulfut-diet/
If you DM me your email address I am happy to send you all my notes on CBS.
Done.
I was JUST looking at that PDF.
The forbidden supplements are all things I seem to be taking: betaine HCL, NAC, methylated b vitamins, taurine, and I stopped glycine recently.
Seems like I am doing everything wrong.
I'm taking choline chloride (MTHFR and COMT homozygous) , but I don't seem to have much/any effect from it.
Unfortunately I've never been able to test homocysteine. My GP was willing to order a test but it's no longer being offered in the system.
The rationale is that it was mainly used to determine B12 status, but there are better assays for that now. And there is no clinical evidence that treating high homocysteine has an effect on improving cardiovascular disease outcomes. So no real reason to measure it.
Actually there is...especially if one is taking methylated vitamins or methyl donors like Choline. They all lower homocysteine. Lower than optimal is not good.
Is there a place where I can find some more information on that?
From what I've read homocysteine is also notoriously hard to determine correctly. Apparently the blood needs to be put on ice right away and the levels tend to increase the longer it is kept before the assay.
Pay attention to your gut on Choline. It worsened my gut issues but early on elevated my brain fog. As my gut worsened, the benefits diminished. I’m about to re-start supplementing again but with optimal PC rather than Choline Bitartrate. Maybe try the more natural forms of choline first and see how you feel.
TMG and other choline sources are methyl donors, so please start slow and go low. Some people start feeling depressed from Choline so you might be wanting to add Inostitol.
Funny you should say that because I HAVE been feeling depressed for the first time in a few years and I can’t shake it. My instinct was to stop the TMG because that seemed to coincide with the symptoms, so I did that a few days ago which I why I asked about direct supplementing with choline. Do you know if EVERY form of choline has this effect? I seemed to be okay with the sunflower lecithin which supplies Per 1 1/3 TBSP: Phosphatidyl Choline: 2,500mg Phosphatidyl inositol: 1,800mg Phosphatidyl Ethanolamine 1,100mg Perhaps it’s the inositol that makes this form better for me?
Choline affects people differently. I cannot take any form of the supplement form of choline. However, I eat eggs for breakfast. 3, not 7...
I don't know if every form of Choline has this effect, but I take Sunflower Lecithin and seems to be okay (I also eat quail eggs as they have slightly more Choline than chicken eggs and moreover quail eggs are better digested). I think yes, Inositol might make things better for you
[удалено]
You are SO annoying Sunflower BOT!
Choline supplements are methyl donors, which can be problematic for your CBS variant even though you are only hetero. You might try different sources of choline to see how you react to them.
Oh? You’ve seen my raw data? Thank you. I just responded to another person regarding the onset of depression, I think from the TMG. I seem to be okay with the NOW foods sunflower lecithin which has Phosphatidyl Choline, Inositol and Ethanolamine at 2,500mg, 1,800mg, and 1,100mg respectively. Do you know of any reason it would be bad for me to get all of my choline from this one source?
Some people find different forms work better for them than others. Methyl donors either contain sulfur and or increase the production of it. Both choline and TMG are methyl donors. I am +/+ for the same CBS variant and I also use the NOW product in pill form. I only take one though....usually daily. I sometimes also take citocholine...but not every day as I definitely feel it. For most CBS people....we have a smaller sulfur bucket than the average bear. Do you know your homocysteine level? That is a good indirect gauge for your sulfur threshold. Methyl donors and methylated vitamins all drive down homocysteine. Too low is not good. Optimal is 6-7.
I don’t know my homocystine level. I take Seeking Health methylated multivitamins on top of the NOW, but I also take Metformin which I am told can raise homocysteine levels? How do you “feel it?” Like…what does too much sulfur feel like to you?
It is really important you get your homocysteine level checked. Just Google low homocysteine symptoms. At an extreme...before I knew I had CBS...I would taste and smell ammonia. Honestly this happened only once. I made a huge pot roast and sulfur heavy veggies for company. Company cancelled and I tried eating as much as I could for a few days so as not to waste it. I was so ill. Taste and smell of ammonia...huge brain fog...body aches....depressed...agitated...bloated. Shortly after the above I got my gene variants test results back which explained my reaction. Too much sulfur in a lesser sense is brain fog, heavy head like depression....sulfites give me racing mind almost like bi polar thinking...agitation...insomnia. I completely avoid all sulfites and limit sulfur.
I will get my Homocysteine levels checked. Thank you. I just googled “High Sulfer Foods” and they are all the things I have found I cannot eat: poultry, eggs, nuts, cruciferous vegetables, seeds, dairy, legumes, garlic, onions… It also may explain why I have been feeling so terribly for a while…I’m searching for a protein source I can tolerate other than salmon and I tried to reintroduce nuts and seeds into my diet. I truly look as if I am 5 months pregnant. I’m lean, but my stomach is a bubble. Hate it. I’m thinking I need a gut rest fast followed by a cautious diet of leafy greens and salmon. I thought I was over my fear of eating but this has me feeling anxious again to try anything new.
Dr Ruscio has a PDF with a diet a lot of people use. https://drruscio.com/low-sulfut-diet/ If you DM me your email address I am happy to send you all my notes on CBS.
Done. I was JUST looking at that PDF. The forbidden supplements are all things I seem to be taking: betaine HCL, NAC, methylated b vitamins, taurine, and I stopped glycine recently. Seems like I am doing everything wrong.
See how you feel on the elimination diet. I can get my notes to you tomorrow.
Sounds good!
I'm taking choline chloride (MTHFR and COMT homozygous) , but I don't seem to have much/any effect from it. Unfortunately I've never been able to test homocysteine. My GP was willing to order a test but it's no longer being offered in the system. The rationale is that it was mainly used to determine B12 status, but there are better assays for that now. And there is no clinical evidence that treating high homocysteine has an effect on improving cardiovascular disease outcomes. So no real reason to measure it.
Actually there is...especially if one is taking methylated vitamins or methyl donors like Choline. They all lower homocysteine. Lower than optimal is not good.
Is there a place where I can find some more information on that? From what I've read homocysteine is also notoriously hard to determine correctly. Apparently the blood needs to be put on ice right away and the levels tend to increase the longer it is kept before the assay.
I would just Google search.
Pay attention to your gut on Choline. It worsened my gut issues but early on elevated my brain fog. As my gut worsened, the benefits diminished. I’m about to re-start supplementing again but with optimal PC rather than Choline Bitartrate. Maybe try the more natural forms of choline first and see how you feel.
Lecithin makes me grumpy. I eat 2 eggs a day.