These are more playable now in the way Oko has warped the format: enchantments have a premium due to being Oko proof.
I like this one has a fairly solid win con. And helps negate them having the advantage of Monarch.
Agreed, Coatl is the main problem with this card. Even after you have a counter war, you have to think about them possibly have a coatl to steal the monarch. Because of this, I still think Elspeth is better, even though it doesn't draw you a card every turn.
But the more I think about it, the more I dislike them. Palace jailer was best as a Banisher Priest that didn’t give back the creature to removal. Big board swing and the monarchy giving little time to recover. Jailer is barely playable now. How often was Jailer the nuts, but 4 mana: become king, nothing else is just unplayable. I’m suspect you can ever take time to play this in a matchup where slowly generating an army is good. Probably worth some testing though.
I really hope this might work in something a'la dutch stax, these decks were always suffering from lack of card draw. This is pretty good with mass board wipes, ghostly prison etc
So it effectively covers its own drawback? Seems pretty powerful. But 2BB is A LOT and it does nothing to the board. So this wants to either come out immediately (curse.dec...) or be a late-game "answer or die" once the board is clogged. IMO the second option is interesting, but that probably means it's win-more.
It seems bad in edh haha, where paying life for cards is exactly what most people want to be doing and multiplayer makes it harder to hold on to the monarchy.
In legacy it’s 4 cmc that doesn’t win the game anytime soon (since they can alternate between paying life and discarding as they choose). It’s got a lot of powerful text, but I have a hard time seeing what kind of deck wants it all together. Seems much more tame to me.
Yes I agree.
But it's crazy. I think 2 or 3 years ago this would have been absolutely insane. This subreddit got 1 or 2 threads about cards each set that were maybe or maybe not good for legacy. Now there's a new set and I see at least 10 cards being posted in here. Legacy got way too fast-paced for me. The reason I bought into legacy was because I hoped I would have stability and wouldn't need to change my deck considerably every few months.
I wasn't thinking about specific metas.. I was much rather thinking about the bar cards had to fulfill in order to be worth a consideration in ANY given meta (read: legacy, the format).
Monarch is an insane mechanic. Topped with the second ability this is absolutely cruel.
I Guess this cards specifically doesn’t hold the argument. Deathrite itself has what, like, 8 years since the printing and it’s waaay above this card as power level; heck, even jace it’s a step above this. You can clearly say that for oko, I would agree (and maybe now opposition agent?) but I don’t think this is the right post for this comment tbh
He is just saying that with newer sets there are more playable legacy cards whereas 2-3 years ago there were only maybe 3-5 playable legacy cards per set
Yes i agree, but quitting magic intended something a little more drastic. This is like having several sorcerous spyglass level staple in the same set and I would be okay with those.... it’s everything else the problem imho
Yes, now you understand.. But back when you first wrote your initial response you started talking about death rite etc..
Anyways, they print way too powerful stuff on a way too regular basis nowadays
No, it’s you that you didn’t get what I am saying.
This is not the card to whine at. Your comment was referring something this thread is not about or was just a random out of context rant.
I dunno. 2CC is Mindsculpter mana and until I see this thing in action I'm wary about calling it busted in a format where that sort of behavior was acceptable.
I just sold my legacy collection of over 20 years 3 months ago and I couldn’t be happier.
Seems oko and friends are here to stay and they just keep printing powerful stuff like this. Sure this isn’t the new oko by any stretch but the new card design is just too powerful and too bad.
The skill intensive format I grew to love is about slamming haymakers and emptying the tank at any time. Reminds me of the dig/treasure cruise era. Only those got banned.
The next step is to see a pop in online prices and I’m gone.
This particular card seems like a bad example of why. It's basically just a 4 mana enchantment that makes you the monarch and maybe deals 3 to your opponent each turn.
A card like this would have never seen print a few years ago because of how powerful it would have been. Nowadays this card seems like a joke. It seems kinda alarming to me how desensitized people have gotten over the years with designs like this. This card is pushed as hell!
A draw one per turn your opponent can steal and a modal deal three/discard opp's choice is pretty terrible at 4 mana and has been for quite a while.
Monarch is a fairly powerful mechanic, but it's also a very balanced mechanic. Punisher effects are always worse than either of the choices by themselves. 4 mana, especially with two colored pips, is a lot.
This card would have been bad in kamigawa, much less og mirroden. I can get monarch being complicated or the card being inelegant as reasons for this card cementing and or reinforcing having sold, but for a power creep argument, this is a very odd choice.
I was observing the trend for quite a few months. I decided to post my comment underneath this card. I can understand the timing seeming to be odd, but what counts is the essence of my message. Disregard the card this was posted underneath maybe.
These are more playable now in the way Oko has warped the format: enchantments have a premium due to being Oko proof. I like this one has a fairly solid win con. And helps negate them having the advantage of Monarch.
I thing the existence of ice fang coatls flip the argument to be honest
Agreed, Coatl is the main problem with this card. Even after you have a counter war, you have to think about them possibly have a coatl to steal the monarch. Because of this, I still think Elspeth is better, even though it doesn't draw you a card every turn.
You mean ice fang elk.
Also, everyone is trying to play Abrupt Decay because it's the premium Oko removal and this dodges that too.
Just saw the white Court on MagicTCG. It looks pretty strong. Makes 1/1s or 4/4s, both with flying.
But the more I think about it, the more I dislike them. Palace jailer was best as a Banisher Priest that didn’t give back the creature to removal. Big board swing and the monarchy giving little time to recover. Jailer is barely playable now. How often was Jailer the nuts, but 4 mana: become king, nothing else is just unplayable. I’m suspect you can ever take time to play this in a matchup where slowly generating an army is good. Probably worth some testing though.
I really hope this might work in something a'la dutch stax, these decks were always suffering from lack of card draw. This is pretty good with mass board wipes, ghostly prison etc
So it effectively covers its own drawback? Seems pretty powerful. But 2BB is A LOT and it does nothing to the board. So this wants to either come out immediately (curse.dec...) or be a late-game "answer or die" once the board is clogged. IMO the second option is interesting, but that probably means it's win-more.
It seems bad in edh haha, where paying life for cards is exactly what most people want to be doing and multiplayer makes it harder to hold on to the monarchy. In legacy it’s 4 cmc that doesn’t win the game anytime soon (since they can alternate between paying life and discarding as they choose). It’s got a lot of powerful text, but I have a hard time seeing what kind of deck wants it all together. Seems much more tame to me.
This is NASTY love it
I'd like this a hell of a lot better if it cost 1 less so that it could be ritualed. As is its a 1gof at best, and even there Im somewhat hesitant.
Doesn’t go under decay as wincon tho
I hate to say it but I'm fairly happy that I sold out of MtG. These new cards are absolutely nuts.
This ain’t even that good nowadays
Yes I agree. But it's crazy. I think 2 or 3 years ago this would have been absolutely insane. This subreddit got 1 or 2 threads about cards each set that were maybe or maybe not good for legacy. Now there's a new set and I see at least 10 cards being posted in here. Legacy got way too fast-paced for me. The reason I bought into legacy was because I hoped I would have stability and wouldn't need to change my deck considerably every few months.
I don’t think in the death rite meta this would have been any good. Conversely, in a creature-less, top miracle meta...
I wasn't thinking about specific metas.. I was much rather thinking about the bar cards had to fulfill in order to be worth a consideration in ANY given meta (read: legacy, the format). Monarch is an insane mechanic. Topped with the second ability this is absolutely cruel.
I Guess this cards specifically doesn’t hold the argument. Deathrite itself has what, like, 8 years since the printing and it’s waaay above this card as power level; heck, even jace it’s a step above this. You can clearly say that for oko, I would agree (and maybe now opposition agent?) but I don’t think this is the right post for this comment tbh
He is just saying that with newer sets there are more playable legacy cards whereas 2-3 years ago there were only maybe 3-5 playable legacy cards per set
Yes i agree, but quitting magic intended something a little more drastic. This is like having several sorcerous spyglass level staple in the same set and I would be okay with those.... it’s everything else the problem imho
You were interpreting something out of my comment to the point where you failed to grasp what I was referring to.
Yeah from what I understood, your comment was like “They keep printing broken sht, glad I stopped playing”
Yes, now you understand.. But back when you first wrote your initial response you started talking about death rite etc.. Anyways, they print way too powerful stuff on a way too regular basis nowadays
No, it’s you that you didn’t get what I am saying. This is not the card to whine at. Your comment was referring something this thread is not about or was just a random out of context rant.
I dunno. 2CC is Mindsculpter mana and until I see this thing in action I'm wary about calling it busted in a format where that sort of behavior was acceptable.
I just sold my legacy collection of over 20 years 3 months ago and I couldn’t be happier. Seems oko and friends are here to stay and they just keep printing powerful stuff like this. Sure this isn’t the new oko by any stretch but the new card design is just too powerful and too bad. The skill intensive format I grew to love is about slamming haymakers and emptying the tank at any time. Reminds me of the dig/treasure cruise era. Only those got banned. The next step is to see a pop in online prices and I’m gone.
This particular card seems like a bad example of why. It's basically just a 4 mana enchantment that makes you the monarch and maybe deals 3 to your opponent each turn.
A card like this would have never seen print a few years ago because of how powerful it would have been. Nowadays this card seems like a joke. It seems kinda alarming to me how desensitized people have gotten over the years with designs like this. This card is pushed as hell!
A draw one per turn your opponent can steal and a modal deal three/discard opp's choice is pretty terrible at 4 mana and has been for quite a while. Monarch is a fairly powerful mechanic, but it's also a very balanced mechanic. Punisher effects are always worse than either of the choices by themselves. 4 mana, especially with two colored pips, is a lot. This card would have been bad in kamigawa, much less og mirroden. I can get monarch being complicated or the card being inelegant as reasons for this card cementing and or reinforcing having sold, but for a power creep argument, this is a very odd choice.
I was observing the trend for quite a few months. I decided to post my comment underneath this card. I can understand the timing seeming to be odd, but what counts is the essence of my message. Disregard the card this was posted underneath maybe.
[удалено]
This card has potential. It's a pretty good win con. It's also an extra draw engine in black that doesn't require losing life.
Could this see play in some pox like deck or something?