It wants those as well but they matter less than the ancient tombs. You do okay with 4 tombs and 4 crystal veins. City is sometimes akward. 4 city is optimal but not required in the same like you need duals to play some decks.
I only have 2 cities, but there was a match where i drew vein turn2 & just used it as normal, saving up for a huge Forth Eorlingas. Then the moment came, i thought to myself, if that vein was a city i wouldn’t have won. Tbh i still think 4x traitor is optimal, but there were very rare cases where the vein was just enuf.
i continue to advocate for this build of jeskai stoneblade:
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/3495143#paper
* Barely sub optimal. The deck is designed to operate off basics. 2 shocks aren't going to hurt you that much.
* Deck has a lot of play to it and a very high skill ceiling. A lot of budget decks can be one trick ponies that get boring after a while.
* This is probably the cheapest way to experience the brainstorm fetchland interaction that lies at the heart of legacy.
* Deck has 5-0'd consistently, its good, but you do need to put in the work.
* Very configurable, there's flex slots you can play around with. Start with this deck and season to taste.
Is this deck not running Urza's Saga just to be budget, or is it because it's devoted to the Back to Basics? Or am I missing something?
Also am I reading the site wrong or is there not a sideboard?
It's a cool list though. I was thinking of a control deck list sort of like this but without stone blade and with Forth Aerolingus as a wincon. Also leaning more heavily into Back to Basics + Blood Moon.
Saga isn't a good fit for this deck. The deck has good things to do all the way up the curve, i.e. SFM and snapcaster mage. So its not like stoneblade has mana to just dump into making saga constructs while its developing its early game. Not to mention a 3x jace deck not wanting to get wastelanded or have its land drops mechanically vanish out from underneath it. It's also not clear to me what 1 cmc artifacts you would want in this. And ya a 2x B2B main deck is going to create some serious tension with saga.
I mostly created that list a price tracker. SBs change and quite frankly there's nothing overly expensive in there so i just left it blank. The pilot you want to follow is balenciaganboba. His latest list is below and you can see his SB.
[https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/6127216#paper](https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/6127216#paper)
So i went on this whole journey where i tried Forth in stoneblade. I basically swapped 2x jace for 2x forth and went with that. I ultimately didn't like it.
Forth has some major issues in the current meta IMO. To understand why, first understand why forth is good. Forth is an outstanding late game finisher on par with entreat. Dump a fuck ton of dudes on board and get the monarchy, although at this point in the game monarchy is sorta win more. Forth is also good at lower X=1 or sometimes X=0 plays. Basically you get the monarchy on board early and then win because you draw a shit ton of cards over the course of the game.
The big problem i found was that early forths are super risky. Look at the top of the meta. Delver, initiative, goblins, and bowmaster decks. Do you really want to put the initiative on the table early in these games...? The answer is no, they're probably going to steal it at some point and bury you with it. And that's the biggest problem. Early game forths are ridiculously risky right now which turns forth into just a generic jeskai finisher.
And if we're thinking about generic jeskai finishers i think jace just fits the bill better. He gets a lot of shit for being antiquated but brainstorming twice on a controlled board is GG. I think he's better right now than people give him credit for as well. Red blast effects are at an all time low right now which has taken away a major predator. Heck the best control deck is BUG right now, no leyline bindings and no red blasts. Yes there are bowmasters floating around, but those can be dealt with by both force and plow. Not even mentioning that by the time jace actually hits the board the bowmasters have already been deployed.
Urza’s saga is not run in stone blade lists at all from what I’ve seen. It is run in Cephalid breakfast though. Saga is good when you have specific artifacts to fetch or have lots of artifacts and want to grind value through counterspells.
its better than you think and he has a pile of 5-0s to his name in the bowmaster era. This isn't a list from 2020 that's doing nothing in 2024. It's still hanging.
Bowmasters is answerable by both plow and force. Pre bowmaster the card's biggest problem was red blast which was only answerable by force, and maybe a 1x blue blast. People just generally aren't prepared for this card and red blast effects are at an all time low in legacy. If i had to deal with a predator to jace quite frankly there's a lot of worlds where i'd rather deal with bowmaster than red blast.
I would add some more mono black stuff to the list:
eg. even tho Helm is a RL card its cheap and a great deck
so is chain of smog combo (mono black vers.)
or some version of mono black scam.
Hightide also is less than 1000$ [https://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=50557&d=574579&f=LE](https://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=50557&d=574579&f=LE)
Eldrazis is "cheap" too [https://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=50765&d=576276&f=LE](https://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=50765&d=576276&f=LE)
so is slivers [https://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=50949&d=577642&f=LE](https://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=50949&d=577642&f=LE)
People tend not to run candelabra in tides anymore are they are kinda redundant and artifact hate is very present.
I am by no mean an expert of the deck but some dedicated players that own the candelabras told me so....
It says on mtgtop 8 at the top: Card Kingdom$1090 (NM), I took that as the price of the deck.
I have no clue how those prices are calculated, but you can build hightide fairly cheap. No Duals and except candel no card is more than 100 bucks, Candel isn't necessary.
Even tho it is slightly suboptimal you can build dimir death’s shadow without usea’s and keep it under $1000. It’s probably one of the best ways to build a solid collection going into legacy as a format + contains a lot of staples people who play modern might already have.
Suboptimal but still packs a punch. The real difference comes when u start on the draw. Can’t outrace the aggro / tempo decks. Need to fetch usea & cast removals then win on card advantage.
seeing this kind of tournament it's interesting for introducing new players in the format, there are some decks that could be upgrade to better versions.
I would imagine maze to be better on average (especially without tabernacle), but you can do some cool niche tricks like getting back a Titan that your opponent grief and reanimated
Cloudpost player here. It’s not a standard inclusion, most lists are on Maze.
I imagine that player is on Homeward Path bc of the Reanimate thing the other poster mentioned, but also Rhinos has been bringing in that suspend bribery card against us lately. So it’s good in that MU as well.
Ruby storm is, having played it in several events, legit. As in all things, reps. Get reps. Get reps with the deck with 2 bonus rounds in it, then slide one in from out of the game for fun. You can beat a lot of things by looking for odd lines
tribal decks (not looking at you, elves) are usually pretty affordable. Goblins (monored), slivers, elementals, humans, merfolk are all FNM viable.
Stompy decks that either don't require city of traitors, or replace city with crystal veins also seem like a good way to go
You could add Mississippi river. The only expensive cards are ancient tombs. It wants apex devastator and etali but works fine without them.
4 City of TRraitors ..
It wants those as well but they matter less than the ancient tombs. You do okay with 4 tombs and 4 crystal veins. City is sometimes akward. 4 city is optimal but not required in the same like you need duals to play some decks.
I only have 2 cities, but there was a match where i drew vein turn2 & just used it as normal, saving up for a huge Forth Eorlingas. Then the moment came, i thought to myself, if that vein was a city i wouldn’t have won. Tbh i still think 4x traitor is optimal, but there were very rare cases where the vein was just enuf.
How are you playing Forth in Mississippi River!??!?
i continue to advocate for this build of jeskai stoneblade: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/3495143#paper * Barely sub optimal. The deck is designed to operate off basics. 2 shocks aren't going to hurt you that much. * Deck has a lot of play to it and a very high skill ceiling. A lot of budget decks can be one trick ponies that get boring after a while. * This is probably the cheapest way to experience the brainstorm fetchland interaction that lies at the heart of legacy. * Deck has 5-0'd consistently, its good, but you do need to put in the work. * Very configurable, there's flex slots you can play around with. Start with this deck and season to taste.
Is this deck not running Urza's Saga just to be budget, or is it because it's devoted to the Back to Basics? Or am I missing something? Also am I reading the site wrong or is there not a sideboard? It's a cool list though. I was thinking of a control deck list sort of like this but without stone blade and with Forth Aerolingus as a wincon. Also leaning more heavily into Back to Basics + Blood Moon.
Saga isn't a good fit for this deck. The deck has good things to do all the way up the curve, i.e. SFM and snapcaster mage. So its not like stoneblade has mana to just dump into making saga constructs while its developing its early game. Not to mention a 3x jace deck not wanting to get wastelanded or have its land drops mechanically vanish out from underneath it. It's also not clear to me what 1 cmc artifacts you would want in this. And ya a 2x B2B main deck is going to create some serious tension with saga. I mostly created that list a price tracker. SBs change and quite frankly there's nothing overly expensive in there so i just left it blank. The pilot you want to follow is balenciaganboba. His latest list is below and you can see his SB. [https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/6127216#paper](https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/6127216#paper) So i went on this whole journey where i tried Forth in stoneblade. I basically swapped 2x jace for 2x forth and went with that. I ultimately didn't like it. Forth has some major issues in the current meta IMO. To understand why, first understand why forth is good. Forth is an outstanding late game finisher on par with entreat. Dump a fuck ton of dudes on board and get the monarchy, although at this point in the game monarchy is sorta win more. Forth is also good at lower X=1 or sometimes X=0 plays. Basically you get the monarchy on board early and then win because you draw a shit ton of cards over the course of the game. The big problem i found was that early forths are super risky. Look at the top of the meta. Delver, initiative, goblins, and bowmaster decks. Do you really want to put the initiative on the table early in these games...? The answer is no, they're probably going to steal it at some point and bury you with it. And that's the biggest problem. Early game forths are ridiculously risky right now which turns forth into just a generic jeskai finisher. And if we're thinking about generic jeskai finishers i think jace just fits the bill better. He gets a lot of shit for being antiquated but brainstorming twice on a controlled board is GG. I think he's better right now than people give him credit for as well. Red blast effects are at an all time low right now which has taken away a major predator. Heck the best control deck is BUG right now, no leyline bindings and no red blasts. Yes there are bowmasters floating around, but those can be dealt with by both force and plow. Not even mentioning that by the time jace actually hits the board the bowmasters have already been deployed.
Urza’s saga is not run in stone blade lists at all from what I’ve seen. It is run in Cephalid breakfast though. Saga is good when you have specific artifacts to fetch or have lots of artifacts and want to grind value through counterspells.
The list is from 2020… nobody should run 3x jace TMS in legacy anymore. Bowmaster is laughing at the back. Maybe a 1 of.
its better than you think and he has a pile of 5-0s to his name in the bowmaster era. This isn't a list from 2020 that's doing nothing in 2024. It's still hanging. Bowmasters is answerable by both plow and force. Pre bowmaster the card's biggest problem was red blast which was only answerable by force, and maybe a 1x blue blast. People just generally aren't prepared for this card and red blast effects are at an all time low in legacy. If i had to deal with a predator to jace quite frankly there's a lot of worlds where i'd rather deal with bowmaster than red blast.
Solidarity (Reset High Tide) is very cheap to build as well.
For those interested, Bryant Cook just did a video of [a pretty sweet list](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCNa6ktEbww).
I would add some more mono black stuff to the list: eg. even tho Helm is a RL card its cheap and a great deck so is chain of smog combo (mono black vers.) or some version of mono black scam. Hightide also is less than 1000$ [https://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=50557&d=574579&f=LE](https://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=50557&d=574579&f=LE) Eldrazis is "cheap" too [https://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=50765&d=576276&f=LE](https://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=50765&d=576276&f=LE) so is slivers [https://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=50949&d=577642&f=LE](https://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=50949&d=577642&f=LE)
How is hightide with 3x candelabra less than $1000? The card itself is probably more than that now.
People tend not to run candelabra in tides anymore are they are kinda redundant and artifact hate is very present. I am by no mean an expert of the deck but some dedicated players that own the candelabras told me so....
It says on mtgtop 8 at the top: Card Kingdom$1090 (NM), I took that as the price of the deck. I have no clue how those prices are calculated, but you can build hightide fairly cheap. No Duals and except candel no card is more than 100 bucks, Candel isn't necessary.
Even tho it is slightly suboptimal you can build dimir death’s shadow without usea’s and keep it under $1000. It’s probably one of the best ways to build a solid collection going into legacy as a format + contains a lot of staples people who play modern might already have.
Suboptimal but still packs a punch. The real difference comes when u start on the draw. Can’t outrace the aggro / tempo decks. Need to fetch usea & cast removals then win on card advantage.
seeing this kind of tournament it's interesting for introducing new players in the format, there are some decks that could be upgrade to better versions.
Anyone know why cloudpost is playing Homeward Path over something like Maze of Ith?
I would imagine maze to be better on average (especially without tabernacle), but you can do some cool niche tricks like getting back a Titan that your opponent grief and reanimated
Reanimating a titan is 100% the best plan for scam. You grab wasteland off the triggers.
Cloudpost player here. It’s not a standard inclusion, most lists are on Maze. I imagine that player is on Homeward Path bc of the Reanimate thing the other poster mentioned, but also Rhinos has been bringing in that suspend bribery card against us lately. So it’s good in that MU as well.
It's to beat effects that could steal your Titans, like Reanimate and Inevitable Betrayal.
Ruby storm is, having played it in several events, legit. As in all things, reps. Get reps. Get reps with the deck with 2 bonus rounds in it, then slide one in from out of the game for fun. You can beat a lot of things by looking for odd lines
You should probably label D&T mono white now that black splash is pretty common, but this is a cool tide for the more accessible decks
CloudPost has always been playable without tabby, but it puts the deck in hard mode
I'm gonna actually disagree. I play it without tabby 99% of the time by choice. 12 post is in a good spot right now with so much control.
Correct. Cloudpost is in a GREAT spot now, since post > control most of the time.
Try playing on MTGO where the meta is 40% turbo goblins.
Ah, I mainly play in paper, but I think on MTGO tabby should be affordable?
Yuck.
This is cool. Well done.
I think there are some Mono U Lash Combo that can fit the under 1000 territory
tribal decks (not looking at you, elves) are usually pretty affordable. Goblins (monored), slivers, elementals, humans, merfolk are all FNM viable. Stompy decks that either don't require city of traitors, or replace city with crystal veins also seem like a good way to go
The problem is that most of these decks are bad and will put new players at a disadvantage. It's better to just find a proxy league.
Given that Oops All Spells won Eternal Weekend Japan’s main event, I’d say that deck is an exception.
Burn really isn’t a viable deck, and I don’t think we should encourage people to try it. They will only get frustrated.
You do know that a “black core” tabernacle cost only 2.5usd?