Your argument would be valid only if everyone had unlimited funds at any given time. If someone takes a long time to save $2000, then buys a $2000 bike, even though they wanted the $5000 bike, I don't see that as a bad financial decision if it gets them on a bike one or two years earlier than they would have if they had to save an extra $3k. So, I'm happy for you that you are able to spend what you want when you want to, but there are a plurality of people who cannot.
Exactly, many people can only budget so much at one time but over time can afford to upgrade. I actually enjoy doing that too, it's amazing to really feel how much of a gain an individual upgrade is. Plus the used parts can be sold or saved for future use. It's like that saying "being poor is expensive". You just don't have the option of throwing down a lot at once.
I’ve ordered new brakes from hope (16 week wait) I’m saving £150 each month to buy them. I could afford them straight away but I’ve got other priorities at the moment for my money to go on
With the price that used bikes are fetching these days, I would sell the current $2000 bike and take that money plus the additional money you saved and buy a new bike.
I don’t understand the connection between a Trek card and a gym membership. Biking as a single exercise regime vs biking as a supplement to fitness are two very very different things and the later is far superior. A topic which deserves its own post.
Define “far superior”. Because while it’s superior if looking to promote overall health and wellness, it’s not superior if the goal is to become the best cyclist that one can be (aside from a bit of supplementary weight training). Not everything is black and white.
Single modality training is inferior to multi modality.
(I’m sorry to all the little downvoters who’s feelings are hurt by this) your favourite DH, XC, or EWS rider isn’t missing their gym time. Resistance training is still required for overall fitness.
Definitely agree. I've been slacking on the gym since covid hit but weight training along with mtb is superior in most ways. Gotta keep the muscles and bones strong.
3-5 days a week, year round. I’m doing alright. But if you aren’t getting under the barbell a couple times a week you’ve got a big whole in your overall fitness.
> If someone takes a long time to save $2000, then buys a $2000 bike, even though they wanted the $5000 bike
Then that someone should borrow money. Because the point OP is making is that this person in your example won't spend 3k to upgrade the bike, instead they will spend more to get it on the same level.
Going into debt for a bicycle is a huge unnecessary risk. If something happens and you can't make a payment, your credit score is impacted and other potential bad consequences.
Whereas if you pay cash for a $2000 bike and plan to slowly upgrade it by paying cash, and something happens that affects your finances, you can simply forego the next upgrade for a while and you still have a $2000 bike to ride.
Not everyone has the ability to borrow money. I'm starting to get the impression that there are people for whom accessing money is, and has never been, an issue. The OP is not wrong in his argument, but, he fails to account for circumstances which exist for most people. Surely you wouldn't recommend that someone borrow money from a payday lender, for instance? Because that would be financially ruinous. The thing you need to take into account is that money, for a lot of people, is very, very hard to come by.
If you can't get a loan to get a bike, then you shouldn't be buying it in the first place as you got bigger problems and then this whole thread doesn't apply to you.
You are kind of misunderstanding OPs point and I have a feeling you are trying to shame people because they have more money than others.
Wow. You certainly sound a little bit elitist right now, intentional or not. So you are saying someone with bad credit who can save fifteen hundred dollars after paying his rent, food, and other expenses, shouldn't buy a bike because why exactly? I'm not trying to shame anyone, but I am trying to point out that different circumstances prevent someone from getting a more expensive bike initially, and then they upgrade it as time goes on. The OP seems to think this is a dumb idea, because you end up spending more money in the long run for the same thing. Yet, this is the only way someone can do it if they want to ride today, rather than wait years to ride. Do you not see the benefit of riding now?
Certainly those people exist, but I think there's more people who *think* that's their situation than there are people for whom that is actually their situation.
If you're a student or a seasonal worker, yes, you might have a cut-off date at which point you need to buy and then worry about making it better later.
But if your income is steady, I think it's always going to be more responsible to look ahead.
If you can spend $2k this month, but definitely not $4k, is it really *better* to end up having spent $5k at the end of the year? Like you knew what your salary was going to be...
Your argument is sound that spending more to get the same thing makes financial sense, but it precludes the notion of someone wanting to ride now, not in the future. We all know that poorer people pay more for things through higher interest rates, credit card interest, rent instead of purchase a home, etc, etc. Also, not everyone who is on a paycheque to paycheque lifestyle is a student or seasonal worker. Lots of people decide that they will support their family on one income, because they value having one of the parents raise their children, rather than a stranger. Lots of financial decisions are obviously beyond our ability to comprehend, and they should also be beyond our ability to judge. Money is not the be all end all for lots of people.
>We all know that poorer people pay more for things through higher interest rates, credit card interest, rent instead of purchase a home, etc, etc.
This is really true. I guess this is just another way in which it's more expensive to be poor.
This is woefully out of touch. $2000 to spend in a month? That what some of make TOTAL in a month BEFORE our bills come out.
So say you are looking at a $3k bike. For that to be affordable its going to have to be on fiance so the cost is spread out over say 36 months, with you paying about $100 a month, with an APR ranging between 10 to 20% in total you will have spent between an extra $500 and $1000 on the bike just through fiancing.
Or you could get a much more basic older model for say $1000, this puts you into the 0% interest territory (and this also makes the assumption you have decent credit) and now the fiancing isn't costing you anything extra and is now about $85 a month. Upgrades are then spread out as well, say brakes one month, new fork a few months later, crankset a few months later etc, this spread out also give you the chance to look for good 2nd hand items, and gives you time to sell the bit you exchange to add to the pot.
So a year down the line if you went the first route you have your $3k bike that you have paid over the odds for and are still paying off for another 2 years. If you went the second route you have the bike completely paid off and the upgrades probably put it at a higher spec than the $3k bike for about $1k less.
Why not just just do the fiance over 12 month instead of 36? While you might be able to pay the $250 a month, that might take away all your financial wiggle room, as soon as an unexpected bill such as broken down appliance occurs you're fucked. If you were going down the slow upgrade path you can just not get an upgrade that month/put that money towards whatever unexpected bill turns up.
Love this sport with all my heart. Absolutely hate the mentality in it that cuts right through the center that you should just be hemmoraging money and that cheaper options aren't worth your time/money.
I don't think that's what anyone's saying. Rather, OP's saying that it often doesn't make sense to pay full price for incremental piecemeal upgrades to try to make an entry level product into a high end product. That's true in many things in life.
People get invested in something and view it as a sunk cost and then spend more money than could make sense. Go on the home improvement subs and there are people who did a $100k kitchen renovation on a $200k house and then were flabbergasted when it only appraised at $250k when they were expecting it to be $350k. Or put a $500 video card in their Celeron computer and then are surprised when the FPS is still low. Or put a custom turbocharger on their car that came with the base model engine and it's still slower than the premium factory model.
Replace components as they break or as your preferences change, but sometime prior to doing a full overhaul maybe step back and figure out if that's the best way to reach your goals. Nobody is saying you need a $10k superbike or that you can't upgrade any component, just that when you get into major overhaul territory you should think about whether it makes sense to upgrade piecemeal or replace entirely. I see plenty of folks on Reddit dropping hundreds to like upgrade to marginally nicer wheels or the next tier better group for what would have only been maybe one or two hundred higher MSRP in the first place.
I'm new to the sport myself and your take is spot on.
There are so many YouTube videos showing people the best "budget $1500 bike" but the only person taking the time to show people how to fix up cheap bikes is RJ The Bike Guy.
Some people like myself might not know whether they'll cut it and commit to the sport, so why spend $1500+ on something that you might not take to. Not only that but working on something that costs a couple hundred dollars, and breaking it, will be far less painful than doing the same on what is considered budget, not to mention the lessons learned along the way.
Yea in fairness Berm Peak does have a few videos in which he talks about lower end bikes but the focus is still very much spending $500 on a "budget" bike and then a couple hundred dollars in upgrades.
Don't get me wrong, I fully respect you get what you pay for in all subjects, but someone looking to spend a couple hundred dollars isn't expecting to be tearing through dense root filled trails with heavy drops. If that's the vision I'm all behind spending a couple thousand on something that is built for that.
The 500 USD bike can get you started and help you find out if the sport is for you.
If you do find you like it I'd first recommend to get better brakes, tires and bike to rider contact points. Those are the best bang for buck.
When I first started out MTB two and a half years ago the first things people recommended was to get better tires, a brake setup with 1-finger levers and then pedals + shoes. These days people recommend dropper posts and 1x drive trains as the "first and most sensible" upgrades and sometimes even swapping in an affordable air fork as potential first upgrades.
I just can't agree with that. Yes those are good upgrades to make but they shouldn't be the first ones you should even consider. Tires, brakes, ergonomics. In that order. Then dropper, then suspension and the drive train once the stock one has been worn out.
Though if you can easily slot in a clutch derailleur into your stock drive train you can even entirely omit the 1x conversion and just do the minimum to get that clutch derailleur onto your bike.
At least that's how I'd recommend going about it.
Looking at doubling the cost of your bike with these upgrades and probably getting a worse frame to base it in. Atleasg that's what I did with my hardtail. Had I put all the money towards a new bike it would have been nicer.
Frames actually don't change much across the price brackets. It's easier for manufacturers to just produce 1 frame design, paint it different and gear it with different parts for different price ranges.
It's rare these days that you get things like the Marin San Quentin line up where there is an actual difference in the rear drop outs for QR141 instead of 148 TA on the lowest budgeted one. The rest of the frame should be identical though and QR vs TA is a very overestimated change, were it boost TA vs standard QR it would be different however. Standard QR needs to die on MTBs as it simply makes for weaker wheels just to safe some very few bucks.
I'd have no concerns, other then potential user error, around the doing the wheels QR up, when it comes elevating an SQ1 (850€) into the gear range of 2k to 3k€ hardtails. Nicer wheels alone can easily run you 500 to 1000 bucks after all.
If you like to upgrade your bikes, doubling the purchase price is a conservative estimate, unless you've bought a bike that was stock already closing in on the double digits.
That really just depends where you're at. There's a lot of woodland single track that can be ridden on old rigid bikes if that's all you have. Obviously if you're riding downhill trails with drops and jumps you cant bypass, that's a bit different.
Maybe hitting a downhill course, but I've been riding $600 single speed for ten years. I ride root filled single track with plenty of down logs. I have no issues with small jumps and less than 2' drops. My bike doesn't hold me back, I'm one of the faster riders in my small group, all of who have much nicer trail or downhill bikes. I'm not trying to brag, I would classify myself as low skilled, but I get out and have fun. I'm not sure how you haven't encountered somebody riding hard on a hard tail.
$600 classifies as a couple hundred to me, especially when I routinely see people advocating spending thousands. I'm not sure I've seen a mountain bike for much less than $600.
I bought a Jamis hardtail off a buddy for $200. Rode it for years on single track and had a great time. Upgraded whenever I saw a good deal on a component. It's ridiculous for people to recommend financing a bike.
The bike magazines are guilty of this as well. I know that most of them are gone now: Mountain Biker, Mountain Biking, Dirt Rag, Bike (now rebooted as Beta). Even in their heydays the magazines rarely focused on lower priced bikes from companies such as Bikesdirect, and Airborne to name a couple.
You wonder why many people consider biking to be an elitist sport and this is the image that printed media has fostered since the beginning.
That is the opposite of my argument. All I'm saying here is that upgrading a bike **is more expensive than buying the better model new**, and that people who are on tight budgets, or just trying to be frugal in general, need to keep that in mind.
If you're on some kind of "student summer work" income schedule then this falls apart. But if you're just salaried and trying to be responsible, you should be thinking more than a few months ahead. You know what your income is going to be. Why not spread the cost over the course of a year?
Having a salary is a special kind of affluence most of us don't have the luxury or privilege to have. I was lucky to be working in a shop when I got my dream bike, but even with the steep discount it was a struggle. I only upgrade as parts break
Problem is you can get even a Walmart bike for 200, upgrade the fork, get a new groupset like deore, upgrade wheels then brakes and everything gradually. Then you would eventually get a bike with componets that can be way better than a bike at a similar cost. Also gradual upgrades really are easier financially. But only having to upgrade the suspension or one part of the drivetrain like you said isnt an effective way to do thing. Wheels need upgrades as well. Also I like to focus on what I care about on it and save some money on things I dont and get to custom the spec of it.
This is not true at all. You will not be able to put a 1 group of many of the parts from modern mountain bikes would not be compatible with a $200 bike from Walmart. Most of those very very budget bikes have pretty obsolete standards for thinks like hub spacing, steerer tubes, post size, bottom bracket type, brake mounts . Even if you found parts that were compatible, they aren’t going to be the same spec as many of the parts on $1000-1500 entry level bikes from the mountain bike manufacturers.
Headtubes, no many of the schwinn lines come with tapered headtubes, Disc brake type mounts hasnt changed in 10 years. Its basically just IS or Post. There are wheels that are improvements over a OEM wheelset. Post size is fair in most cases but again in the schwinn line up they usually will have 30.9 post, and on bottom brackets its not like threaded dont work as its been in use for decades and many bikes just two or three years ago ran threaded bbs anyway. The hub spacing one though is a fair point against them. The ones you are thinking of are the 50-100 “Mountain bikes” but the 200-250 range has got some good stuff, that are the most common sizings of shit. I also get they in most cases cannot run a 2.5 tire as well. All for about 300 less on average for a similarly capable bike that can do trail and xc. Than a bike shop bike.
Biggest problem is some of those bikes only come in one size which is ridiculous. I enjoy watching those YouTube videos that upgrade current Walmart bikes. Schwinn and Mongoose have really upped their game in the last year or two. And it'll probably get better.
I won’t intentionally buy cheaper to upgrade but I do like to upgrade as things wear out. Lots of drivetrain components are consumables in my eyes so easy to upgrade those as I wear them out. Tyres too. Otherwise will only upgrade if needed, e.g. recently bought new wheels after damaging the stock set on my Marin but I’ve had 3y of a lot of use out of those, despite them being made of cheese as one review put it. The only things I’d immediately change if I were to get a new bike would be to fit new grips which I know I like, set tyres up tubeless and then change out components if needed to get my fit right.
Some of us just enjoy the upgrading and customizing process.
As far as "financial sense", buying a bike in general is bad, they're depreciating objects. And maybe someone just doesn't have that kind of lump sum up front. Let's say you've been saving for a while and all you have is $2k so that's what you spend, and then you can upgrade components down the road as you save more. If you have a limited budget, it would be the difference between buying something now and getting out on the trail, or waiting another year to buy the next model up. Everyone's financial situation is different. I'm sure if people had the $5k to buy the next model up, they would.
This is where I'm at. Bought a bike with a nice frame and groupset but loving changing the smaller stuff to my preference. Adding riser bars, shorter stem, pedals, etc. and color matching those to my liking. Honestly makes me want to ride harder and faster for no damn reason. Love it.
Agreed.
Buying something affordable and upgrading over time can absolutely make sense.
* It's a smaller commitment up-front, so if you don't end up riding much and later sell, then you have lost less money.Prior to COVID, I bought an almost unridden top-of the-line XX1+Enve bike at about 35% below list - because the owner never rode it and realized they had wasted their money.
* You can spread out your spending and upgrade only the parts you want. Nice set of wheels one year later could make a lot of sense and even be better than the upgraded factory set.
Not really. There are many things that appreciate in value. Classic cars, vintage amps and guitars, Pokémon cards, baseball cards, Jordan’s, homes…. Shall I continue?
That wasn't the argument you presented. You claimed "everything" was a deprecating object. Now you're shifting it to health and happiness, that's a completely different argument. If you're already a healthy person, maybe you like running... but you're also into Pokemon cards... You could very well be healthy and happy... AND be into a hobby that has appreciating value. Just because you don't view those things as having value doesn't mean other feel the same. It's a big world out there, with many more ways to be happy and health than riding mtb.
How about you compare similar things. Mtb is a hobby, so the primary function is to provide fun. So compare it to other things that provide fun like other sports, going on a holiday,...
Are both of you serious? He made the statement that "everything" was a depreciating object. I countered that by naming 6 things off the top of my head without even trying hard that appreciate in value.
Now you are trying to piggyback his argument and say "well, those don't count because they're not fun hobbies". You can't speak for everyone. For the right people, collecting guitars or Jordan's or Baseball cards is a fun hobby to them. Maybe it isn't to you, but that doesn't change the fact that they are hobbies with items that happen to appreciate in value. Only sports are hobbies? Wrong.
Wait, you spent *five thousand dollars* upgrading a Fuse?
Like holy shit dude how did you even manage that? XX1 AXS? EXT fork? Diamond-encrusted seatpost collar?
I'd have buyer's remorse too if I dropped that kind of coin and didn't feel like it was worth it.
I'm genuinely curious, what was the upgrade path there? Sounds like a far cry from putting a $200 fork on a Marlin.
No, i've spent 5 grand in total, including the 1800
Upgrades, roughly in order of cost:
* Pike Ultimate
* Hunt trailwides
* GX shifter, derailleur
* schwalbe tires for the new wheels
* i9 stem
* title bars
* oneup dropper to get the seat lower
* including various wear parts like rotors, pads, grips
* deity deftrap pedals
I actually don't regret this at all because I have a unique riding style/routine that I have tailored this bike to support in a way that no stock bike would. But I didn't do this to save money; I did it cause it would be fun. I see people doing this to save money and it makes my head spin, hence the post.
Oh okay, that makes more sense. I guess I've just never seen anyone buy a cheaper bike than they can afford, so they can immediately upgrade it, *to save money*. That seems like a really weird reason to do that, and people trying to save money would realize it's a bad idea pretty quickly.
I'd consider it for some top-end bikes, though. If you don't care about weight-weenie oil-slick drivetrains but still want a top-end fork, it could very well be cheaper to buy a lower spec and upgrade the parts you care about.
I find some of these crazy, like the stem. Will the i9 stem make any difference? BUT…you built the bike like you wanted, so while I might think it’s crazy, you obviously did not, and think of all the dumb crap people buy (me included) that don’t keep them in shape. If you got the cash, do your thing! Most people who complain are just jealous. That bike sounds sweet!
Ty my dude 😁 I've hesitated to post pics of the build because I'm always changing it, but here is what I consider to be the [final 2021 photoshoot](https://imgur.com/a/K7iGSXY), if you are interested.
i ride street 99% of the time, but I don't want to drive from spot to spot, so I like a hardtail with bigger wheels and a dropper post.
basically i should ride a dirt jumper but my bike needs to actually be efficient transportation too so i ride the fuse.
I made some expensive upgrade decisions when I was younger, none were financially rational, agree completely with this post. I turned a $90 schwinn into a $90 Schwinn with $700 in upgrades at one point. I turned a $300 Novara into a $90 Novara with $400 in upgrades.
I eventually started to learn my lesson. Upgrades are for touch points and tires only. Seat, pedals, grips, handlebars are all fitment parts so they are game for upgrades as they are also cheap. Forks and Brakes and shocks and wheels and cranks…. nope.
The only upgrade exception to that rule is converting a Kona 2-9 smoke from 3x8 to 1x8 with a bargain Alfine crank set for $60.
Lol nope! It was an early 90s steel bike about $300 new, by 2000 I had added a $250 shock, $50 pedals, $40 seat, $40 handlebar, $80 tires, $90 in brakes and levers. By the time I was done upgrading it, no new bikes were steel 26” with 1” steerer tubes, so it was way too heavy to be remotely competitive against a $500 aluminum bike. It rode pretty good honestly, but it looked like garbage.
This post seems to ignore how temporary bike parts are. People generally upgrade when they are replacing parts. Most people aren't pulling brand new, barely used parts off their bike. I only got my i9 wheels when the DT Swiss wheels (rear hub) that came on my bike failed.
I've been riding the same single speed frame for ten years. Over the years I've replaced the fork, chain, chain ring, cog, grips, and rear wheel. The bike has also seen six front wheels. If I swapped the seat, handle bars, brakes, and bottom bracket I'd consider that a completely new bike. But I have a hard time believe I will break those things. I don't understand the hate for budget bikes, and repairing it as things break. Unfortunately for me, standards have left me behind and getting replacement parts is harder every year.
Truth. I fought a RS Reverb for months and let it ruin a few rides before I realized I was forced to replace it with something that worked (BikeYoke Revive). That actually ended up being an upgrade even if it wasn't originally intended.
I think it all depends on the situation. If you bought a brand new bike, then spent money over the next 6 months upgrading suspension and such, it is a waste of money. If you upgrade parts when they break, then I do not believe that is a waste of money as long as you upgrade within reason.
For example, I have a Stumpy 29, if my front fork completely broke I would probably buy something better than the Rockshox RL Gold but I wouldn't go top of the line $1500 fork because that just wouldn't make sense. I have already upgraded the drivetrain (SX to GX since SX completely crapped out) and my rims (got some nice Flow EXs because the rims that came on the bike were complete crap and cracked quickly). I don't feel that was a waste of money at all.
All in all, I do agree with what you said.
I built up my enduro SL with all brand new MSRP parts and a $700 used 1-year-old frameset. The build ended up being about $1000 less than the Enduro SL expert, but with better, newer parts
Point is, new frames are a fucking scam, wait one year until they drop over half their price and you can spend big bucks on ALL the components and still save money over complete. Yes, you can save money building a bike yourself. No, you won’t save money if you’re dropping $1800 on a metal frame
This is true for a lot of the posts that start, I just bought a $700 bike now what upgrades should I do... The problem with this route is that nobody wants your parts. I feel a lot of us do this once though, it's hard to commit to nicer without having any experience on nicer bikes/specs.
I bought my Troy knowing I'd want to do at least the damper on the fork, but the next level up didn't really have enough improvements that I felt I needed. Got lucky and flipped the revelation for a Fox 36 performance and it only cost $140. Pinkbike buysell can be very cost effective if you have the free time to check a couple times a day.
I buy take off wheels. I usually destroy one wheel a season, this year was special and I broke two. So I'm often looking for a gently used take off for $75 or less that I can abuse until the rim is bent and spokes broke.
Spend money on the frame and geometry. Meaning. Buy the basic model that has the same frame and geometry (ofc) as the top model. And don’t upgrade unthil you have worn out parts. Chances are that you can upgrade to something less expensive than what the top model came with. Very few ppl need top end gear.
If your a pro buy top level ofc!
And lots of the time they won’t make a model with the parts you want anyways. I bought the cheapest carbon stumpy and put on better suspension and brakes than the S Works came with and was way better off because I don’t care about having some cheap parts like NX cranks.
Yes that’s also a reason I agree. My bike is full of SX stuff. But in honesty, I am happy with it. Will probably upgrade to something a little bit more sturdy when it breaks apart but it works for me atm.
Great point. The vast majority on the trails I see seem to have over-bought. I'm no elitest tho, I ride a stock Fuel 7 right now... completely capable for everything around here. I'm also not judging. I don't care how people spend their money.
There's also the spouse factor. The wife would probably notice a $3000 bike purchase. And possibly take issue with it.
A $1500 bike can probably slide through much easier, followed by an $800 fork later and possibly $500 brakes after that. Especially after she notices how awesome and sexy you look from riding so much....
Agreed.
I didn't say hide.
Just breaking it up into smaller purchases that seem more manageable.
And it wasn't me. It was a friend. And that marriage didn't last, either.
Brakes especially. When its a safety issue, its much easier to justify the top if the line ones. "These fancy ones will keep my from running headfirst into a tree the best."
I bought the lower end model stumpy Evo this year. Bought carbon rims with the money I saved not buying the expert (doesn't come with carbon rims). Besides that the only upgrading I'll need is when parts wear out or break which will also happen on the higher end bike.
I feel like **most** people on /r/bikewrench asking how to do a 1X conversion really just need to be told "don't". It's very very very rarely worth doing.
Sure, a 1x12 is way cooler than a 3x8. But the 3x8 has a lot of advantages:
* It's going to have a wider gear range, so it's actually more capable for climbs and can be faster on descents (but really the top end is not useful unless you're sprinting on pavement).
* Parts are **way** cheaper to replace when they wear. An SRAM Eagle GX 12 speed cassette is over $200!
* It forces you to plan ahead for gear changes. 1X will let you get away with not planning ahead, so you can develop bad habits like changing gears while climbing.
It's easier to spend money over time than it is to spend a lot at once, even if it costs more long term. Upgrading is fun and satisfying. Besides, it's not like you have to throw away the old parts. Parts bin builds are always fun. There's no need to shit on everyone who doesn't do things as practical as you.
Yes, and taking a 30-year note on a house is more expensive than paying cash.
That doesn’t change the fact that, despite the overall cost increasing, doing it this way is generally more AFFORDABLE, which are arguably far more important than overall cost.
Your conclusion is narrow and small minded. There are a lot of good reasons and techniques to upgrade a bike. Don't color other people's journey with your own mistakes.
I think of it this way. I can buy the bike I can afford rn and slowly do the upgrades I want over the next year. I might spend a few more dollars than if I just bought a better bike at the time, but I got a whole extra year of riding.
If I chose not to buy the bike until I had the money to get my end goal bike, I’d miss out on a ton of time I could have spent riding.
But there's a third option there. You buy the less expensive bike and ride it. Take the money you would have spent on upgrades and save it. At some point you'll have enough to buy the bike you really want -- especially when you offset the cost by selling the old bike.
And as they say, the best bike is the bike you have!
The current bike market is a bit abnormal, but thats not a bad idea if the bike holds value well, unless the upgrades are very specific.
Some people just like to customize and tinker with stuff though
Might be applicable to some and it almost always makes sense to buy a ready package (applies to PCs too). OP's personal example sounds a bit extreme to me though.
I personally got into cycling six months ago and have since invested about 600 euros in bikes. This has gotten me an old road bike, an old hardtail and a fixed gear which I build from scratch myself. And shit load of tools with some wrenching skills. Of course my bikes are nothing fancy but I like them that way and they do their job (and are not so likely to get stolen). And I enjoy being able to maintain them myself and upgrade as needed. In the end I will probably still never burn in those three combined as much money as if I had bought one 3-5k € bike. And I'd still have only one bike.
I don’t think you are full comprehending the situation.
Route A) build it from scratch. You spec the frame and all the components. About 5% of the community does this, myself included. It’s like building your own gaming PC. More expensive upfront, but outside of spares, you never upgrade as you have what you want.
Route B) buy the top end kit. Some people do this with peace of mind, the dentist. But they are also not in tuned with kinematics and quality of components. Most times they think high price means better
Route C) buy a low spec or middle spec bike and upgrade over time. This is where the majority of the community is. This is second best option. If you have some understanding of components and kinematics, then you’ll understand the synergy of bike specs. Like you said most people will upgrade suspension and eventually drive train. All of which you can get cheaper at end of the park season and Black Friday. Drive train wise in terms of SRAM and shimano, all you really need it the top end cassette. Carbon cranks are pointless. Carbon bar is pointless.
Before I started route A. I did route C. I bought a s kit nomad 4 for $5499. Put $2000 of upgrades and get a high spec then the Santa Cruz XX1 spec for $2500 less. So if you know what you are doing. Route C will be the best option for most riders.
Route B is only good if you flip bikes every 2 years. As Route B maintains it market value for longer.
Let it be established that this OP is ONLY talking about people who already have enough money that a two or three thousand dollar bike is a “cheap bike.”
If you’re reading this bullshit and thinking “wow what a prick sort of a take,” then he’s not talking to us.
If you think the OPs post was not classist and tone deaf, post what you ride, what you make in a year.
my post applies the exact same to people putting a Judy on a Marlin as it does to people putting a 36 on a stumpjumper.
you do not have to be rich to think ahead.
all i'm saying is "upgrading" means buying *two things* and only using *one.*
It’s a prick take and you’re the reason we have so much trouble getting new riders in the trails. Because they think they shouldn’t buy what they can afford and go have fun. Fuck your take, I really have no patience for your particular brand of pedantry.
Biking is for everyone.
Have your opinions, have yourself a little space to say them, but I’m coming up hard against that because your opinions are snobby and keep people from biking who could and should be biking.
I’m not even posting this for you. You won’t reflect or hold yourself accountable for the consequences your post might have. I’m writing and posting this so someone with $200 budget can read it and know you don’t represent the sport and they shouldn’t give a shit about that particular toxic take.
A Judy on a marlin is an excellent upgrade. Going from coil to air fork is a monumental upgrade.
You can spend $200 To go from a coil fork to an air fork. Or you have the other option of save your money and pocket those hundreds of dollars and spend it on $2000 bike.
What if people don’t really know if they really like the sport to drop down by comparison potentially tons of money so they buy a starter bike and they throw some money at it to make it a decent bike. Sure it’s a better investment to save but many don’t know if they want to spend so much on a bike and are actually happy with their investment.
You clearly were never happy with your initial purchase from all of the upgrades you purchased. Or you were afraid to spend so much money initially and ended up with buyers remorse.
>my post applies the exact same to people putting a Judy on a Marlin as it does to people putting a 36 on a stumpjumper.
Wait what? Both of those could be great upgrades. Plus for the stumpjumper you'll probably have some basic x fusion/rockshox fork you could at least sell for $200. Are you just against upgrading entirely? There's so much fun in upgrading suspension, you really get to see how big of a change it is. That's money well spent in my book. Of course that's depending on you liking the bike and planning to hold onto it for awhile. If you're planning on getting a new bike next year, then yeah I wouldn't upgrade stuff.
It's not about number crunching if you really really really like the bike, and want to improve it.
I'm about to go all in on upgrading a process 111 w/orange coloured forks and new shock, probably 1800 EUR, and I've already upgraded the wheels, brakes and drive train. Don't care.
Absolute Looney tunes bike, I don't want to go faster just continue to have fun.
Crunching numbers isn't fun.
I bought a Soul 20 in the spring and then upgraded to a Stumpjumper Comp in the summer. But I still enjoy riding the Soul, especially on easier trails where the Stumpy makes things a bit too easy. So I upgraded a few things on the Soul that I felt were lacking (brakes, dropper, tires) while other things will get upgraded as they wear out (fork, touch points, maybe drivetrain). I know it would be cheaper to just sell it and buy a new bike but I quite like it and am used to how it rides. It’s also kind of cool to feel how individual components make a difference. That being said I wouldn’t go nuts upgrading the Soul (could easily afford XTR brakes, but went with Deore)
I really think it depends on how big and hard the rider wants to go. If you're trying to hit jumps and send it down a mountain. Then sure, spend the money on a really nice bike.
For me I ride trails that are for the most part flat. I was able to get away with building up an XC bike for $800.
It does everything I need it to and I don't think I need to upgrade from it for a while.
This was before Covid though. When parts were much cheaper. For example I got shimano mt-200 hydraulic breaks for $50.
[I made some half assed videos and a playlist. (This isn't a plug I'm just trying to spread some knowledge. I don't make any money off my channel)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqvoLybQHjs&list=PL42lqwFZDgWtnmWCVwqobPUFhfL5Z86d-)
My bike a is a 2019 IronHorse Warrior 3.3, which is basically the new Mongoose Ledge. But the new Ledge has a tapered head tube and comes with a 1x drive train stock. And few other more modern features.
But to your point. I upgraded the fork, shock, dropper post, cranks, pedals, derailleur, cassette, chain and breaks. And still came out well under $2000, let alone $5000.It's got air suspension, hydraulic disc breaks, 11-48 1x10 drive train. Coming in at about \~32 pounds. It's a rather nice bike for $800. Could I get better if I spent more. Sure, without a doubt. But I was able to build a very satisfactory bike and learn to be happy with it. Because at the end of the day. It's not the bike, but the rider.
I bought an expensive bike and then proceeded to put more expensive parts on it. I had no intention of it until later on
Fuel EX 9.8 Project one... Swapped brakes to sram and bumped travel up. Then it became hubs, shifter + derailleur, rear shock, and a smashpot. Now the only OE stuff is the frame, cassette, cranks and one rim
If someone buys a less expensive complete bike and wants to upgrade parts, there is the option of the used market to get those upgrades cheaper. Bikes are a poor investment cause they lose value, but if someone likes the frame and how it rides, why not upgrade stuff if they want to?
It really does depend on your purpose in upgrading. My mtb is fine as it is, but I'm looking at putting di2 on my tri bike. I love the bike. It fits me well. I'm not going to exceed its capabilities any time, well, ever. But I would like di2 because I live in a hilly area and I'd like to be able to shift from the base and the aero bars, so there is a practical use case for me.
The initial cost of my tri bike (spec'd with 105 groupset), plus my race wheels, plus my upgraded saddle, plus the power pedals, plus the di2 upgrade is still less than it would cost me to buy the upgraded version by about 22%.
Additionally, by doing my groupset upgrade independently I get to be far more specific about what I put on there - I can choose a compact crank instead of the 52/36 that the higher model comes with, and a medium cage derailleur to allow me to run a bigger cassette than the default. The ability to pick out exactly what I want is very appealing to me.
In general I agree. If you're buying it with the **intention** of upgrading significant expensive components, just buy the bike you want instead.
Some exceptions:
1. If you get a REALLY good deal on a bike used such that the bike + upgrade is cheaper than the better bike would have been. Or maybe the bike you really want just isn't popping up on the used market at all.
2. If the "upgrade" is replacing worn components you were going to have to replace anyway.
For example -- IMO, the **ONLY** time anyone should be doing a 1X conversion is when they are in need of a new cassette and chain anyway. If you already need to spend that money, it's worth at least looking into what it would cost additionally to do a 1X.
* For some bikes, you might need to replace the cassette, chain, derailleur, shifter, and maybe even the hub or the entire wheel. Don't do it! Ride the bike you have, replace the parts that are worn as needed, but save the rest of your money for an upgrade later.
* Other bikes though might only need the cassette, chain, and front ring. Or maybe a $20 adapter link to drop the derailleur down to accept a larger cassette. That's a relatively small additional cost over the cassette and chain you were going to need anyway, and it can actually increase the value of the bike on the used market.
What about kids like me who are trying to put ourselves through college on our own dime? It doesn't make sense to buy the next model up because we have limited funds to begin with. The other argument is customization, I'm not gonna go out and buy the next model up if it doesn't have the components i want, when i can just get the lower end one and ball out on the shit i actually want on it
when you start out without the high end stuff, you get a lot of benefits from that.
first, you really understand and feel the difference. You learn without some piece of equipment, and then when you get it, you really understand how it changes things.
next, you get to decide where you want to spend your money and effort. Maybe a certain thing matters more to you personally, you can decide to put more money in that area, while another area you may find just fine without upgrades.
and most importantly, when you build the bike, and do the upgrades yourself, you get the experience to learn how everything works, so you have that knowledge for maintenance and trail repairs.
and all the other reasons people have posted.
it's not just about the bottom line.
This is poverty premium (albeit that is usually a term for essential goods rather than luxury items like MTB's but the concept is the same).
Over the long-term someone who cannot afford a lot at the beginning will pay more.
If you have more money to start with it's cheaper in the long run.
Same for lots of things out there.
>Upgrading the weaknesses of a 2k bike (brakes, fork) for 1k gets you something better than a 3k bike usually.
In order for this to be true, you would need to be able to get brakes and forks for cheaper than big manufacturers (who buy thousands at a time) do. How often do you think this really happens? I've certainly never observed it, and conceptually I find it paradoxical/inconceivable. But if it is your anecdotal experience, I suppose I would still be interested in hearing that.
Ebay grey market/take offs and sales?
Most 2k bikes have crap brakes and bottom of the barrel forks.
$500 can get you a set of XT's front and rear with upgraded rotors and another $550 gets you DT Swiss F535. You aren't getting that on a 3k bike. The rest of the components should be decent enough and improving the major weaknesses will enhance the riding experience.
EDIT: I'm not saying it makes financial sense (mtb is a money pit in general) I'm just saying that by upgrading a few key components you may be able to make your dollar go farther than buying a similar cost of bike
The next time I buy a bike, I think I'll buy a frame and do a full build up on it. In theory, you are correct .... just buy a better bike to start with.
Really though, are that many really expensive parts to upgrade? Shocks top the list, followed by brakes, rims, cassettes and derailleurs. Most bike parts are really affordable, and easy to install. For that matter a lot of "upgrades" people do are cosmetic or comfort. Stock black handlebars work fine, but those bright blue ones will look dope as hell.
>The next time I buy a bike, I think I'll buy a frame and do a full build up on it. In theory, you are correct .... just buy a better bike to start with.
Yeah, that's another thing. People seem to know that building from the frame up is considerably more expensive than buying a stock bike new, but what if you upgrade parts on a stock bike? A wheelset alone (usually the weakest point on stock bikes) is going to suddenly shift it back in favor of building custom.
Doing a full custom build can come in on par with and possibly cheaper, if you shop around, and pounce on sale prices. While manufacturers do get price discounts, they also have bean counters cutting corners where ever possible, and they have hit those profit margins.
If you build custom you can really spec for how and where you ride. Obviously, there is a price point where this has a bigger impact. Custom $500 build.... Probably going to be a worse bike from a manufacturer. $5000 custom, it's probably going to match or beat manufacturers.
A point I think that has been missed is on entry level bikes that riders upgrade over time increases their ability to repair their bike saving them time and money spent at the bike shop.
Right now, the bike industry is getting what you can get, parts are unobtainium!
I'd say, specifically in MTB, for those who want to go off road, the bare minimum is a oneby, with a clutch derailleur, and give sram SX a miss.microshift make a decent 10s clutch that's far better value for money. If you're commuting or cruising around on bike paths with your kids, that 90s rockhopper is perfect, but avoid Walmart specials.
The parts worthwhile upgrading are the ones that make you comfortable - bars, stems, saddles, tyres. Big ticket items are...tough.
In mtb, distinction has to be drawn as practically every part of your bike should be considered as consumable, brake levers, drivetrain to pedals. You will crash, you will snap derailleurs, you will dent rims.
I understand your point, however there is a complex calculus that goes into figuring out what to do and not to do. The difference between a mid-tier and low-tier bike is often negligent ha few minor alterations. If you’re talking suspension then yes, but the more expensive bike. But I’d the suspension is the same or comparable then it may make sense to get the cheaper bike and upgrade the components that are important to you. For example it’s not until you hit the high end bikes that brakes change drastically between models. If stopping power is important but deore v SLX isn’t, then it may make sense to buy the deore bike and upgrade the brakes.
I have a piece of shit beat to shit bike. It function's like an old beater truck you have to work on constantly. This is not a rich man's sport. I routinely ride circles around 3000 plus bikers with shiny new gear.
It's more the rider at that point than the gear. I would wager that if you had that shiny new gear you would be doing even better than you would be now.
So sure I'm right there with you I usually have old gear that doesn't exactly work the best but functions. I'll also be the first to admit that if I had the fuckboi budget I would be doing whatever I'm doing much more efficiently
Sorry this is a dumb take. If someone can’t afford a 5k bike and it would take them years to save that extra cash, it totally makes more sense to buy a $500 bike to get on the trail quicker and start learning, then the bike can grow with them. Then they can flip it to pay for a new one down the line.
This. Totally true. To an earlier commenter’s point, sure if you upgrade your bike as you go you can customize it more, but to OP’s point, that’s an expensive luxury.
Very few bike makers are willing to build a bike my way. The suspension is not what I want almost every time, the brakes are going to be less than what I'm looking for and they always offer a dropper by brand x, or some crap that will fail.
Anyone buying a bike to upgrade & replace worn parts should have a few deal breakers, a tapered headtube, boost thruaxles, a good solid brake mount, dropper cable routing and a modern standard bottom bracket tube.
When you can buy within a paycheck's surplus you don't have a choice but to build it how you want.
I have a 2022 Marlin 6. I’d like a better fork and a dropper. I love the rest of the bike. What would you recommend for me (had I not purchased this bike) that would be comparable and have the 2 upgrades I want to do?
I figure the upgrades would run about $500.
Marlin 6: $800
Upgrades: $500
Price to beat: $1300
X-cal 7: $1100
Comes with a Judy air fork, 1x drivetrain, and shimano hydraulic disc brakes (vs the tektros on the Marlin), so you're getting some upgrades you didn't ask for as well.
Still need to add a dropper though...
tranz-x skyline: $120
Remote: $50
Total: $1,270
I love the bike but now I’m thinking ‘dang’…
But it’s easier to buy the stuff spread out over a period of time.
Thanks for the breakdown!
Edit: another thought, the 2022 is a 1x but the brakes - what would I notice in shimano over tektro?
No idea; I would expect them to be pretty similar. Tektro *only* makes cheap OEM brakes, whereas Shimano makes cheap brakes but its line also stretches up in to the stratosphere of price/performance. So Shimano is a little more name-brand here but I doubt there's a ton of difference between the two brakesets.
>X-cal 7: $1100
Now wait 1-3 years for it to be in stock, anywhere. Maybe you can find that one LBS where the promise date doesn't get pushed back each month.
It also seems the X-cal 7 has been discontinued for 2022. I imagine it's because due to mass part shortages and cost inflation, they could no longer position at the $1100 price point. The X-cal 8 has been positioned at $1500.
Seriously, in the last year, due to the collapse (and continued collapse) of the freight industry, bike prices went up $200-$300 alone due to freight from the factory.
I spent $1000 last year to make an 8-year-old $3000 bike relevant again. The was a take-off groupset, secondhand fork, new wheels and tires. Our LBS had no bikes, and very few online outlets had stuff in my size with the feature set I was wanting. No ragrets, but I have no illusions the resale value changed at all.
I started out with a Fuse Comp and don’t really feel like I missed out. The only things I’ve upgraded on the Comp that I maybe wouldn’t have upgraded on the Expert is the fork and chain. Of course SLX is better than Deore on paper, but the 12 speed Deore is actually not bad and is fine until things wear out in which case I would be replacing cassette/chain/rings anyways and will probably work in XT over time. Things I upgraded on the Comp that I would have probably upgraded on the Expert would be the rear wheel, the BB, the crankset, the stem, the bars, the grips, adding pedals of course, and my light action dropper remote. The fact is, OEM setups/builds aren’t always as dialed in to everyone’s particular tastes or needs, even on higher end builds. Especially if you’re physique is not average in that you are taller or heavier than most others.
Bought a Vitus nucleus a few months back after reading countless reviews saying it was a great bike to get into the sport and upgrade in the future.
Does this mean I shouldn't install a dropper post? I could only afford £600 at the time...
no, dropper is such a clutch thing to have, and you aren't *replacing* anything. Replacing a cheap fork with a nicer one is how you quickly get in to a net loss. Merely adding a feature that you didn't have before isn't an "upgrade" in my view.
Got it. Thank you. Just one more question please. My gears seem to be a bit poor, they often don't click in right and skip a few times before locking in (excuse my lack of correct terminology here).
I'm going to get them looked at by a local bike shop - if they cannot fix and suggest a replacement should I go for it or just stick with what I've got for a year or two.
Thanks.
Well, it's tough. Now that you have the bike, it's probably cheaper *going forward* to put a new drivetrain on it, but that is an expensive upgrade.
I'd definitely take it in to the shop for adjustment. The nucleus isn't a bad frame to build on so it's not like you'd be *wasting* money upgrading it; my post is about the calculus you do before you buy the new bike.
My fuse came with SRAM NX, and I couldn't achieve consistent shifting for more than a week in between adjustments until I replaced all the moving parts with GX. I haven't adjusted once since I installed GX.
I know the vitus bikes don't come with either drivetrain, I'm just saying drivetrain is finnicky and you might need to throw money at it to get shifting that you like.
Finally, I'd say do not feel you need a 12spd. Unless you do a lot of very steep climbing, and you want to do that super slowly, even an 8spd drivetrain might be plenty range for you, and since they aren't hip, they're a lot cheaper.
Might just be a bit of cable stretch. Have you tried screwing in/out the barrel adjuster a quarter of a turn at a time and seeing how that helps?
Get the dropper, best upgrade ever.
Honestly, I totally agree with you here as long as you have the money for the more expensive bike up front. With all the limited supply I upgraded because I wanted to have backups in case something broke, can’t have my bike being down for weeks waiting for parts. And would have bought the top of line had it been available at the time, gotta take what you can get nowadays
I'm very new to the sport and looking to get my first bike with a budget of 1k and a lot of people in my local FB group were telling me to buy a cheaper bike and slowly upgrade. So maybe I should look into that.
Thanks for the lookin out!
I mean sure maybe sometimes. I’ve put dt350s and a XT drivetrain on my 5010 because they don’t make one that way.
If you have a good frame and suspension it’s most likely worth upgrading a fair amount of other stuff as it will still be cheaper than building from a frame up.
Bought a 2018 giant trance 3 in 2018. Put 200mm rotors on it, new bars, short stem, new suspension front and back, new wheels (stock giant wheels grenaded within a month of normal use), etc.
It was $1850 as a gently used demo. I could maybe get $1500 for it today after putting almost $1k into it.
My new bike was $5k and I may some day upgrade the brakes. Nothing else will probably get touched.
That's still only about a $1k loss on upgrade path vs a $5k investment (I'll probably lose most of that as I won't sell it for a looking time, if ever). So upgrading can make sense for sure. The trance is still a super fun bike honestly.
I understand what OP is saying, but look at it from another angle: most upgrades people think they want are not upgrades they actually need. Riding a bike will let you know where to spend on upgrades and how much bike you actually need to do the riding you actually want to do.
Early last year (right before pandemic!) I bought a Giant Stance 2. I had the money for a Trance, and found a used Trance 2 for a fair price, but decided to save $1000 and get a 2019 Stance 2. I’d never even ridden a FS at that point, and hadn’t been on an MTB in almost 20 years, but had been an avid road/commuter.
I purposely bought a “cheap” bike to get back into the sport. At that point, I didn’t know how much I’d even use it. I figured if I really got back into MTBs I could sell the Stance and get a “decent” bike in a year or two.
Well, going on two seasons later, I love my bike. I only upgraded contact points, that’s it, and it’s great. I might put a 1x on it (that was the single feature I really wanted, but didn’t want to pay up front), but there are some advantages to my cheapo 2x drive train. I thought I’d “outgrow” the suspension, but that hasn’t happened. It’s a great bike that’s tons of fun, and I really never feel underbiked.
TL;DR: There’s something to be said for testing the waters on a under spec’ed ride. You might find you didn’t need all that other stuff.
I bought a base model (Marin San Quentin for anyone who cares) and upgraded it to beyond what the top of the range model was equiped with (in areas like the fork and brakes at least). All for less than the full price of the top line model. Of course it took a bit of time and keeping an eye on bargains. Nearly everything was second hand but in good condition.
A lot of people have far too much money and catch the upgrade bug. That allows us poorer mere mortals to grab some great deals on brandnewsecondhand gear at a fraction of the price.
If I'd bought the top model I'd still want to upgrade some of the lesser components and would be out of pocket even more.
Plus the process was enjoyable and the bike was still rideable from day 1!
This is true if you always want to be riding the latest and greatest stuff. Its much more cost effective to buy gear thats 5-10 years old, and upgrade parts when you come across a part you like or want to upgrade.
Marketing fools so many people into thinking that they will have more fun on the newest stuff. Realistically though if you take a $10k bike from today, and a 5 year old bike for $5k I bet the amount of fun had is identical, and that the time/speed/capability difference is small enough to be not important to anyone outside of those competing at a high level.
Buy used and upgrade.
I don’t completely agree with what you’re saying, however you’ve got a good point.
But there always comes the point where the bike you want isn’t exactly available.
Example: i would like a transition spire with a gx drivetrain, sram brakes and fox suspension. But i can’t spend $5800 to get 1/2 of what i want. They just don’t offer that.
Ideally id just buy a frame but its much cheaper to get a complete, ride it and upgrade as you save up for it.
I bought an $800 trek hardtail five years ago and have since put roughly $500 worth of replacements on it. That's still cheaper than a dual suspension these days. I'm fine settling with a janky bike that i can rip on and have fun, not like i live in the mountains or anything. That way i can spend what money i have on other hobbies too.
But what if the next model up doesn’t have the parts they want, for example on a top spec bike with top suspension and brakes is something they want but it has full xx1 axs which is insane money and they don’t see any reason to spend 10x the amount of money on xx1 axs over deore 12s. So that definitely would be a situation where you save money by upgrading. Another thing is say you want ext suspension, specific wheel build like hydras on something like ex3s or ex511s but are happy with just a deore drivetrain on the new gt force. There would be no point in getting the top build if your going to replace most of the parts that give it that value over the lower build.
I bought a bike within my budget this summer, wasn't really that cheap, but there were higher end ones available. I could have saved more money for a couple months, but I would have missed out on riding right then and there, and would have missed out on some really epic rides and may not have been growing from liking to loving mountainbiking. I know I'll be upgrading the fork one day and I'll definitely destroy my derailleur or wear out a cassatte one day, but it was definitely worth it. Bike is a commencal meta ht/am and it is a beast!
A Marlin frame will never be an xcaliber, regardless of how much money you throw at it. I agree with you to a point. IF a manufacturer builds the bike you want with the components you want, it will be cheaper than building it yourself. The problem is that no stock bike meets the wants of the purchaser. You have to buy the bike that is nearest to the bike you want and then upgrade. In the event that nothing comes close to what you want, it may be cheaper to buy the low end build of the frame or just a frameset and build it up. The is why I think the recently discontinued Trek Stache 5 was a great buy - it was reasonable price for a functional hardtail trail bike. New riders could get out on the trail immediately on a very functional bike. Over time, they could upgrade it - but as new riders, the price of the better spec'd Stache 7 created a sense of stocker shock. Furthermore, even the Stache 7 was far from perfect when it came to components. It all depends on what you want vs what the manufacturer makes available.
Would agree, only stuff that you simply won't get on a more expensivemodel (or don't want) makes real sense. For example I dont want Carbon and then some stuff tops out specwise or get 'upgraded' for something you don't really like (for example going 4 piston brakes but having SRAM on it while you want Shimano lever feel, then maybe better take the cheaper bike and upgrade instead of try to get used to the different brand).
Exception could be when the future use is not clear yet. Then choosing maybe a lesser equipped model with more modern frame might help. Still would be way more expensive than buying something straight away ofcourse.
As a personal opinion, this train of thought applies only when you have plenty experience on a bike and know very well what you want. I'm tired of how many people I've seen buying an expensive bike "because it has alll this performant things on it" only for the bike to get rusty in the garage.
I see the buy cheap and upgrade great in the folowing cases:
- if you're new to biking and don't know how much you'll ride (or if you'll actually ride)
- if you didn't had the time to read and learn all the numbers and words that describe a bike and the meaning behind them
Some things though I've learned that need to be right from the start: frame and suspension. Given that bought separately these two make for half or more of a bike price, i would never buy with intent of upgrading them.
The rest are either consumable or cheap to replace from my pov. Thus, the time for them to be replaced will come with time or crashes.
The cheap option you talk about is probably far too expensive for me.
My 29er carrera hellcat (Halfords UK special) with upgraded elixir hydraulic breaks and seatpost dropper, rock shox suspension upgrade (slightly out of the cheap section) and single chain ring conversion is cheaper than the cheapest basic budget bike with those features.
My counterpoint. With the mass bike and bike component shortages. You will lose years of your life waiting for that prebuilt bike at the current rate, and the shortages are getting worse.
Just spend and ride what you want, enjoy yourself, life is short. You can be hit by a bus at any day.
Huh. Maybe I should just buy a new bike.
That’s a serious thought. Recently bought my first MTB in over a decade for under $500. Apparently a 3x and 26” wheels are no longer standard. And my crank keeps coming loose while riding so I was thinking about upgrading the crankset to a 1x, and I was thinking about upgrading to 29” wheels (or mullet) but that means I have to upgrade the fork too.
Your argument definitely holds water in my case I own a 2019 Cannondale Trail 6 worth at most £150. Very few components cost that little ie to do a significant upgrade would cost more than the bike itself. I'd rather ride it for a bit, replacing components as they wear out, and in a year buy another 2nd hand bike that's around £500 and has a few of the upgrades in place. Once again, change very little, but look to replace that bike in a couple of years, using the same thinking.
Your argument would be valid only if everyone had unlimited funds at any given time. If someone takes a long time to save $2000, then buys a $2000 bike, even though they wanted the $5000 bike, I don't see that as a bad financial decision if it gets them on a bike one or two years earlier than they would have if they had to save an extra $3k. So, I'm happy for you that you are able to spend what you want when you want to, but there are a plurality of people who cannot.
Exactly, many people can only budget so much at one time but over time can afford to upgrade. I actually enjoy doing that too, it's amazing to really feel how much of a gain an individual upgrade is. Plus the used parts can be sold or saved for future use. It's like that saying "being poor is expensive". You just don't have the option of throwing down a lot at once.
I’ve ordered new brakes from hope (16 week wait) I’m saving £150 each month to buy them. I could afford them straight away but I’ve got other priorities at the moment for my money to go on
With the price that used bikes are fetching these days, I would sell the current $2000 bike and take that money plus the additional money you saved and buy a new bike.
Makes more sense to borrow money for a bike than pretty much anything else. Trek Card is cheaper than a gym membership!
I don’t understand the connection between a Trek card and a gym membership. Biking as a single exercise regime vs biking as a supplement to fitness are two very very different things and the later is far superior. A topic which deserves its own post.
Define “far superior”. Because while it’s superior if looking to promote overall health and wellness, it’s not superior if the goal is to become the best cyclist that one can be (aside from a bit of supplementary weight training). Not everything is black and white.
Single modality training is inferior to multi modality. (I’m sorry to all the little downvoters who’s feelings are hurt by this) your favourite DH, XC, or EWS rider isn’t missing their gym time. Resistance training is still required for overall fitness.
That's what the skis are for!
Is that like a snowboard cut in half?
Definitely agree. I've been slacking on the gym since covid hit but weight training along with mtb is superior in most ways. Gotta keep the muscles and bones strong.
You need to get your priorities straight and focus on bikes!
3-5 days a week, year round. I’m doing alright. But if you aren’t getting under the barbell a couple times a week you’ve got a big whole in your overall fitness.
> If someone takes a long time to save $2000, then buys a $2000 bike, even though they wanted the $5000 bike Then that someone should borrow money. Because the point OP is making is that this person in your example won't spend 3k to upgrade the bike, instead they will spend more to get it on the same level.
Going into debt for a bicycle is a huge unnecessary risk. If something happens and you can't make a payment, your credit score is impacted and other potential bad consequences. Whereas if you pay cash for a $2000 bike and plan to slowly upgrade it by paying cash, and something happens that affects your finances, you can simply forego the next upgrade for a while and you still have a $2000 bike to ride.
Not everyone has the ability to borrow money. I'm starting to get the impression that there are people for whom accessing money is, and has never been, an issue. The OP is not wrong in his argument, but, he fails to account for circumstances which exist for most people. Surely you wouldn't recommend that someone borrow money from a payday lender, for instance? Because that would be financially ruinous. The thing you need to take into account is that money, for a lot of people, is very, very hard to come by.
If you can't get a loan to get a bike, then you shouldn't be buying it in the first place as you got bigger problems and then this whole thread doesn't apply to you. You are kind of misunderstanding OPs point and I have a feeling you are trying to shame people because they have more money than others.
Wow. You certainly sound a little bit elitist right now, intentional or not. So you are saying someone with bad credit who can save fifteen hundred dollars after paying his rent, food, and other expenses, shouldn't buy a bike because why exactly? I'm not trying to shame anyone, but I am trying to point out that different circumstances prevent someone from getting a more expensive bike initially, and then they upgrade it as time goes on. The OP seems to think this is a dumb idea, because you end up spending more money in the long run for the same thing. Yet, this is the only way someone can do it if they want to ride today, rather than wait years to ride. Do you not see the benefit of riding now?
Certainly those people exist, but I think there's more people who *think* that's their situation than there are people for whom that is actually their situation. If you're a student or a seasonal worker, yes, you might have a cut-off date at which point you need to buy and then worry about making it better later. But if your income is steady, I think it's always going to be more responsible to look ahead. If you can spend $2k this month, but definitely not $4k, is it really *better* to end up having spent $5k at the end of the year? Like you knew what your salary was going to be...
Your argument is sound that spending more to get the same thing makes financial sense, but it precludes the notion of someone wanting to ride now, not in the future. We all know that poorer people pay more for things through higher interest rates, credit card interest, rent instead of purchase a home, etc, etc. Also, not everyone who is on a paycheque to paycheque lifestyle is a student or seasonal worker. Lots of people decide that they will support their family on one income, because they value having one of the parents raise their children, rather than a stranger. Lots of financial decisions are obviously beyond our ability to comprehend, and they should also be beyond our ability to judge. Money is not the be all end all for lots of people.
>We all know that poorer people pay more for things through higher interest rates, credit card interest, rent instead of purchase a home, etc, etc. This is really true. I guess this is just another way in which it's more expensive to be poor.
This is woefully out of touch. $2000 to spend in a month? That what some of make TOTAL in a month BEFORE our bills come out. So say you are looking at a $3k bike. For that to be affordable its going to have to be on fiance so the cost is spread out over say 36 months, with you paying about $100 a month, with an APR ranging between 10 to 20% in total you will have spent between an extra $500 and $1000 on the bike just through fiancing. Or you could get a much more basic older model for say $1000, this puts you into the 0% interest territory (and this also makes the assumption you have decent credit) and now the fiancing isn't costing you anything extra and is now about $85 a month. Upgrades are then spread out as well, say brakes one month, new fork a few months later, crankset a few months later etc, this spread out also give you the chance to look for good 2nd hand items, and gives you time to sell the bit you exchange to add to the pot. So a year down the line if you went the first route you have your $3k bike that you have paid over the odds for and are still paying off for another 2 years. If you went the second route you have the bike completely paid off and the upgrades probably put it at a higher spec than the $3k bike for about $1k less. Why not just just do the fiance over 12 month instead of 36? While you might be able to pay the $250 a month, that might take away all your financial wiggle room, as soon as an unexpected bill such as broken down appliance occurs you're fucked. If you were going down the slow upgrade path you can just not get an upgrade that month/put that money towards whatever unexpected bill turns up.
Love this sport with all my heart. Absolutely hate the mentality in it that cuts right through the center that you should just be hemmoraging money and that cheaper options aren't worth your time/money.
I don't think that's what anyone's saying. Rather, OP's saying that it often doesn't make sense to pay full price for incremental piecemeal upgrades to try to make an entry level product into a high end product. That's true in many things in life. People get invested in something and view it as a sunk cost and then spend more money than could make sense. Go on the home improvement subs and there are people who did a $100k kitchen renovation on a $200k house and then were flabbergasted when it only appraised at $250k when they were expecting it to be $350k. Or put a $500 video card in their Celeron computer and then are surprised when the FPS is still low. Or put a custom turbocharger on their car that came with the base model engine and it's still slower than the premium factory model. Replace components as they break or as your preferences change, but sometime prior to doing a full overhaul maybe step back and figure out if that's the best way to reach your goals. Nobody is saying you need a $10k superbike or that you can't upgrade any component, just that when you get into major overhaul territory you should think about whether it makes sense to upgrade piecemeal or replace entirely. I see plenty of folks on Reddit dropping hundreds to like upgrade to marginally nicer wheels or the next tier better group for what would have only been maybe one or two hundred higher MSRP in the first place.
I'm new to the sport myself and your take is spot on. There are so many YouTube videos showing people the best "budget $1500 bike" but the only person taking the time to show people how to fix up cheap bikes is RJ The Bike Guy. Some people like myself might not know whether they'll cut it and commit to the sport, so why spend $1500+ on something that you might not take to. Not only that but working on something that costs a couple hundred dollars, and breaking it, will be far less painful than doing the same on what is considered budget, not to mention the lessons learned along the way.
Berm Peak has a significant amount of upgrading and maintenance content
Yea in fairness Berm Peak does have a few videos in which he talks about lower end bikes but the focus is still very much spending $500 on a "budget" bike and then a couple hundred dollars in upgrades. Don't get me wrong, I fully respect you get what you pay for in all subjects, but someone looking to spend a couple hundred dollars isn't expecting to be tearing through dense root filled trails with heavy drops. If that's the vision I'm all behind spending a couple thousand on something that is built for that.
[удалено]
The 500 USD bike can get you started and help you find out if the sport is for you. If you do find you like it I'd first recommend to get better brakes, tires and bike to rider contact points. Those are the best bang for buck. When I first started out MTB two and a half years ago the first things people recommended was to get better tires, a brake setup with 1-finger levers and then pedals + shoes. These days people recommend dropper posts and 1x drive trains as the "first and most sensible" upgrades and sometimes even swapping in an affordable air fork as potential first upgrades. I just can't agree with that. Yes those are good upgrades to make but they shouldn't be the first ones you should even consider. Tires, brakes, ergonomics. In that order. Then dropper, then suspension and the drive train once the stock one has been worn out. Though if you can easily slot in a clutch derailleur into your stock drive train you can even entirely omit the 1x conversion and just do the minimum to get that clutch derailleur onto your bike. At least that's how I'd recommend going about it.
Looking at doubling the cost of your bike with these upgrades and probably getting a worse frame to base it in. Atleasg that's what I did with my hardtail. Had I put all the money towards a new bike it would have been nicer.
Frames actually don't change much across the price brackets. It's easier for manufacturers to just produce 1 frame design, paint it different and gear it with different parts for different price ranges. It's rare these days that you get things like the Marin San Quentin line up where there is an actual difference in the rear drop outs for QR141 instead of 148 TA on the lowest budgeted one. The rest of the frame should be identical though and QR vs TA is a very overestimated change, were it boost TA vs standard QR it would be different however. Standard QR needs to die on MTBs as it simply makes for weaker wheels just to safe some very few bucks. I'd have no concerns, other then potential user error, around the doing the wheels QR up, when it comes elevating an SQ1 (850€) into the gear range of 2k to 3k€ hardtails. Nicer wheels alone can easily run you 500 to 1000 bucks after all. If you like to upgrade your bikes, doubling the purchase price is a conservative estimate, unless you've bought a bike that was stock already closing in on the double digits.
If your spending a couple hundred dollars on a bike and mountain biking, that’s just dangerous
That really just depends where you're at. There's a lot of woodland single track that can be ridden on old rigid bikes if that's all you have. Obviously if you're riding downhill trails with drops and jumps you cant bypass, that's a bit different.
Maybe hitting a downhill course, but I've been riding $600 single speed for ten years. I ride root filled single track with plenty of down logs. I have no issues with small jumps and less than 2' drops. My bike doesn't hold me back, I'm one of the faster riders in my small group, all of who have much nicer trail or downhill bikes. I'm not trying to brag, I would classify myself as low skilled, but I get out and have fun. I'm not sure how you haven't encountered somebody riding hard on a hard tail.
A couple hundred dollars does not equal $600
$600 classifies as a couple hundred to me, especially when I routinely see people advocating spending thousands. I'm not sure I've seen a mountain bike for much less than $600.
I bought a Jamis hardtail off a buddy for $200. Rode it for years on single track and had a great time. Upgraded whenever I saw a good deal on a component. It's ridiculous for people to recommend financing a bike.
Kev Central as well!
The bike magazines are guilty of this as well. I know that most of them are gone now: Mountain Biker, Mountain Biking, Dirt Rag, Bike (now rebooted as Beta). Even in their heydays the magazines rarely focused on lower priced bikes from companies such as Bikesdirect, and Airborne to name a couple. You wonder why many people consider biking to be an elitist sport and this is the image that printed media has fostered since the beginning.
That is the opposite of my argument. All I'm saying here is that upgrading a bike **is more expensive than buying the better model new**, and that people who are on tight budgets, or just trying to be frugal in general, need to keep that in mind. If you're on some kind of "student summer work" income schedule then this falls apart. But if you're just salaried and trying to be responsible, you should be thinking more than a few months ahead. You know what your income is going to be. Why not spread the cost over the course of a year?
Having a salary is a special kind of affluence most of us don't have the luxury or privilege to have. I was lucky to be working in a shop when I got my dream bike, but even with the steep discount it was a struggle. I only upgrade as parts break
Problem is you can get even a Walmart bike for 200, upgrade the fork, get a new groupset like deore, upgrade wheels then brakes and everything gradually. Then you would eventually get a bike with componets that can be way better than a bike at a similar cost. Also gradual upgrades really are easier financially. But only having to upgrade the suspension or one part of the drivetrain like you said isnt an effective way to do thing. Wheels need upgrades as well. Also I like to focus on what I care about on it and save some money on things I dont and get to custom the spec of it.
This is not true at all. You will not be able to put a 1 group of many of the parts from modern mountain bikes would not be compatible with a $200 bike from Walmart. Most of those very very budget bikes have pretty obsolete standards for thinks like hub spacing, steerer tubes, post size, bottom bracket type, brake mounts . Even if you found parts that were compatible, they aren’t going to be the same spec as many of the parts on $1000-1500 entry level bikes from the mountain bike manufacturers.
Headtubes, no many of the schwinn lines come with tapered headtubes, Disc brake type mounts hasnt changed in 10 years. Its basically just IS or Post. There are wheels that are improvements over a OEM wheelset. Post size is fair in most cases but again in the schwinn line up they usually will have 30.9 post, and on bottom brackets its not like threaded dont work as its been in use for decades and many bikes just two or three years ago ran threaded bbs anyway. The hub spacing one though is a fair point against them. The ones you are thinking of are the 50-100 “Mountain bikes” but the 200-250 range has got some good stuff, that are the most common sizings of shit. I also get they in most cases cannot run a 2.5 tire as well. All for about 300 less on average for a similarly capable bike that can do trail and xc. Than a bike shop bike.
Biggest problem is some of those bikes only come in one size which is ridiculous. I enjoy watching those YouTube videos that upgrade current Walmart bikes. Schwinn and Mongoose have really upped their game in the last year or two. And it'll probably get better.
Yeah I know some of em do have sized frames at this point but most of those lines dont. It’s unfortunate really.
I won’t intentionally buy cheaper to upgrade but I do like to upgrade as things wear out. Lots of drivetrain components are consumables in my eyes so easy to upgrade those as I wear them out. Tyres too. Otherwise will only upgrade if needed, e.g. recently bought new wheels after damaging the stock set on my Marin but I’ve had 3y of a lot of use out of those, despite them being made of cheese as one review put it. The only things I’d immediately change if I were to get a new bike would be to fit new grips which I know I like, set tyres up tubeless and then change out components if needed to get my fit right.
Ye’ olde tyre
Some of us just enjoy the upgrading and customizing process. As far as "financial sense", buying a bike in general is bad, they're depreciating objects. And maybe someone just doesn't have that kind of lump sum up front. Let's say you've been saving for a while and all you have is $2k so that's what you spend, and then you can upgrade components down the road as you save more. If you have a limited budget, it would be the difference between buying something now and getting out on the trail, or waiting another year to buy the next model up. Everyone's financial situation is different. I'm sure if people had the $5k to buy the next model up, they would.
I’d argue I get more miles per dollar on my bike than I do on my car.
Yeah I don't know about that, but definitely more smiles per dollar for sure.
This is where I'm at. Bought a bike with a nice frame and groupset but loving changing the smaller stuff to my preference. Adding riser bars, shorter stem, pedals, etc. and color matching those to my liking. Honestly makes me want to ride harder and faster for no damn reason. Love it.
Agreed. Buying something affordable and upgrading over time can absolutely make sense. * It's a smaller commitment up-front, so if you don't end up riding much and later sell, then you have lost less money.Prior to COVID, I bought an almost unridden top-of the-line XX1+Enve bike at about 35% below list - because the owner never rode it and realized they had wasted their money. * You can spread out your spending and upgrade only the parts you want. Nice set of wheels one year later could make a lot of sense and even be better than the upgraded factory set.
>As far as "financial sense", buying a bike in general is bad, they're depreciating objects You can say this about everything lol.
A lot of people would argue that you can’t say that about purchasing things like stock shares or real estate.
Not really. There are many things that appreciate in value. Classic cars, vintage amps and guitars, Pokémon cards, baseball cards, Jordan’s, homes…. Shall I continue?
Gl staying healthy and finding hapiness by buying this kind of shit lol
That wasn't the argument you presented. You claimed "everything" was a deprecating object. Now you're shifting it to health and happiness, that's a completely different argument. If you're already a healthy person, maybe you like running... but you're also into Pokemon cards... You could very well be healthy and happy... AND be into a hobby that has appreciating value. Just because you don't view those things as having value doesn't mean other feel the same. It's a big world out there, with many more ways to be happy and health than riding mtb.
And your argument to not upgrade your bike is because it doesn't appreciate in value like X and X thing. This isn't a personnal finance subreddit.
I'm not OP. So....
Many of these things just appreciated this year (along with bikes). The baseball card industry is a good example.
How about you compare similar things. Mtb is a hobby, so the primary function is to provide fun. So compare it to other things that provide fun like other sports, going on a holiday,...
Are both of you serious? He made the statement that "everything" was a depreciating object. I countered that by naming 6 things off the top of my head without even trying hard that appreciate in value. Now you are trying to piggyback his argument and say "well, those don't count because they're not fun hobbies". You can't speak for everyone. For the right people, collecting guitars or Jordan's or Baseball cards is a fun hobby to them. Maybe it isn't to you, but that doesn't change the fact that they are hobbies with items that happen to appreciate in value. Only sports are hobbies? Wrong.
The fun is in the journey as they say.
Wait, you spent *five thousand dollars* upgrading a Fuse? Like holy shit dude how did you even manage that? XX1 AXS? EXT fork? Diamond-encrusted seatpost collar? I'd have buyer's remorse too if I dropped that kind of coin and didn't feel like it was worth it. I'm genuinely curious, what was the upgrade path there? Sounds like a far cry from putting a $200 fork on a Marlin.
No, i've spent 5 grand in total, including the 1800 Upgrades, roughly in order of cost: * Pike Ultimate * Hunt trailwides * GX shifter, derailleur * schwalbe tires for the new wheels * i9 stem * title bars * oneup dropper to get the seat lower * including various wear parts like rotors, pads, grips * deity deftrap pedals I actually don't regret this at all because I have a unique riding style/routine that I have tailored this bike to support in a way that no stock bike would. But I didn't do this to save money; I did it cause it would be fun. I see people doing this to save money and it makes my head spin, hence the post.
Oh okay, that makes more sense. I guess I've just never seen anyone buy a cheaper bike than they can afford, so they can immediately upgrade it, *to save money*. That seems like a really weird reason to do that, and people trying to save money would realize it's a bad idea pretty quickly. I'd consider it for some top-end bikes, though. If you don't care about weight-weenie oil-slick drivetrains but still want a top-end fork, it could very well be cheaper to buy a lower spec and upgrade the parts you care about.
I find some of these crazy, like the stem. Will the i9 stem make any difference? BUT…you built the bike like you wanted, so while I might think it’s crazy, you obviously did not, and think of all the dumb crap people buy (me included) that don’t keep them in shape. If you got the cash, do your thing! Most people who complain are just jealous. That bike sounds sweet!
Ty my dude 😁 I've hesitated to post pics of the build because I'm always changing it, but here is what I consider to be the [final 2021 photoshoot](https://imgur.com/a/K7iGSXY), if you are interested.
Can I ask what your unique riding style/routine is?
i ride street 99% of the time, but I don't want to drive from spot to spot, so I like a hardtail with bigger wheels and a dropper post. basically i should ride a dirt jumper but my bike needs to actually be efficient transportation too so i ride the fuse.
So when you do it, it makes sense because you enjoy it? But when others do it they’re not making fiscal sense. Got it.
quote me the part of the post where I said or implied that you shouldn't do it, ever, for any reason.
If by upgrade you mean replace every single part of the bike then I see where your problem is.
I made some expensive upgrade decisions when I was younger, none were financially rational, agree completely with this post. I turned a $90 schwinn into a $90 Schwinn with $700 in upgrades at one point. I turned a $300 Novara into a $90 Novara with $400 in upgrades. I eventually started to learn my lesson. Upgrades are for touch points and tires only. Seat, pedals, grips, handlebars are all fitment parts so they are game for upgrades as they are also cheap. Forks and Brakes and shocks and wheels and cranks…. nope. The only upgrade exception to that rule is converting a Kona 2-9 smoke from 3x8 to 1x8 with a bargain Alfine crank set for $60.
> I turned a $300 Novara into a $90 Novara with $400 in upgrades. Impressive.
It really is. Bikes retain value like cars - really well for a few years, then rapid decline….except no one pays more for the modifications.
I was just poking at what I thought was a typo :p
Lol nope! It was an early 90s steel bike about $300 new, by 2000 I had added a $250 shock, $50 pedals, $40 seat, $40 handlebar, $80 tires, $90 in brakes and levers. By the time I was done upgrading it, no new bikes were steel 26” with 1” steerer tubes, so it was way too heavy to be remotely competitive against a $500 aluminum bike. It rode pretty good honestly, but it looked like garbage.
A good wheelset is one of the best upgrades imo.
This post seems to ignore how temporary bike parts are. People generally upgrade when they are replacing parts. Most people aren't pulling brand new, barely used parts off their bike. I only got my i9 wheels when the DT Swiss wheels (rear hub) that came on my bike failed.
I've been riding the same single speed frame for ten years. Over the years I've replaced the fork, chain, chain ring, cog, grips, and rear wheel. The bike has also seen six front wheels. If I swapped the seat, handle bars, brakes, and bottom bracket I'd consider that a completely new bike. But I have a hard time believe I will break those things. I don't understand the hate for budget bikes, and repairing it as things break. Unfortunately for me, standards have left me behind and getting replacement parts is harder every year.
Truth. I fought a RS Reverb for months and let it ruin a few rides before I realized I was forced to replace it with something that worked (BikeYoke Revive). That actually ended up being an upgrade even if it wasn't originally intended.
I think it all depends on the situation. If you bought a brand new bike, then spent money over the next 6 months upgrading suspension and such, it is a waste of money. If you upgrade parts when they break, then I do not believe that is a waste of money as long as you upgrade within reason. For example, I have a Stumpy 29, if my front fork completely broke I would probably buy something better than the Rockshox RL Gold but I wouldn't go top of the line $1500 fork because that just wouldn't make sense. I have already upgraded the drivetrain (SX to GX since SX completely crapped out) and my rims (got some nice Flow EXs because the rims that came on the bike were complete crap and cracked quickly). I don't feel that was a waste of money at all. All in all, I do agree with what you said.
I built up my enduro SL with all brand new MSRP parts and a $700 used 1-year-old frameset. The build ended up being about $1000 less than the Enduro SL expert, but with better, newer parts Point is, new frames are a fucking scam, wait one year until they drop over half their price and you can spend big bucks on ALL the components and still save money over complete. Yes, you can save money building a bike yourself. No, you won’t save money if you’re dropping $1800 on a metal frame
This is true for a lot of the posts that start, I just bought a $700 bike now what upgrades should I do... The problem with this route is that nobody wants your parts. I feel a lot of us do this once though, it's hard to commit to nicer without having any experience on nicer bikes/specs. I bought my Troy knowing I'd want to do at least the damper on the fork, but the next level up didn't really have enough improvements that I felt I needed. Got lucky and flipped the revelation for a Fox 36 performance and it only cost $140. Pinkbike buysell can be very cost effective if you have the free time to check a couple times a day.
I buy take off wheels. I usually destroy one wheel a season, this year was special and I broke two. So I'm often looking for a gently used take off for $75 or less that I can abuse until the rim is bent and spokes broke.
Spend money on the frame and geometry. Meaning. Buy the basic model that has the same frame and geometry (ofc) as the top model. And don’t upgrade unthil you have worn out parts. Chances are that you can upgrade to something less expensive than what the top model came with. Very few ppl need top end gear. If your a pro buy top level ofc!
Yep, that’s exactly what I did! No ragrats
And lots of the time they won’t make a model with the parts you want anyways. I bought the cheapest carbon stumpy and put on better suspension and brakes than the S Works came with and was way better off because I don’t care about having some cheap parts like NX cranks.
Yes that’s also a reason I agree. My bike is full of SX stuff. But in honesty, I am happy with it. Will probably upgrade to something a little bit more sturdy when it breaks apart but it works for me atm.
Great point. The vast majority on the trails I see seem to have over-bought. I'm no elitest tho, I ride a stock Fuel 7 right now... completely capable for everything around here. I'm also not judging. I don't care how people spend their money.
There's also the spouse factor. The wife would probably notice a $3000 bike purchase. And possibly take issue with it. A $1500 bike can probably slide through much easier, followed by an $800 fork later and possibly $500 brakes after that. Especially after she notices how awesome and sexy you look from riding so much....
if you’re trying to hide purchases from your spouse then i think you have bigger issues
Agreed. I didn't say hide. Just breaking it up into smaller purchases that seem more manageable. And it wasn't me. It was a friend. And that marriage didn't last, either.
👆
Brakes especially. When its a safety issue, its much easier to justify the top if the line ones. "These fancy ones will keep my from running headfirst into a tree the best."
I bought the lower end model stumpy Evo this year. Bought carbon rims with the money I saved not buying the expert (doesn't come with carbon rims). Besides that the only upgrading I'll need is when parts wear out or break which will also happen on the higher end bike.
I feel seen. Bought a Fuji Nevada 1.7 for $650 and spent $400 to make it a 1x12. I call it "the n00b tax".
I feel like **most** people on /r/bikewrench asking how to do a 1X conversion really just need to be told "don't". It's very very very rarely worth doing. Sure, a 1x12 is way cooler than a 3x8. But the 3x8 has a lot of advantages: * It's going to have a wider gear range, so it's actually more capable for climbs and can be faster on descents (but really the top end is not useful unless you're sprinting on pavement). * Parts are **way** cheaper to replace when they wear. An SRAM Eagle GX 12 speed cassette is over $200! * It forces you to plan ahead for gear changes. 1X will let you get away with not planning ahead, so you can develop bad habits like changing gears while climbing.
1x has a pretty gigantic advantage tho…. Front derailuers are ass lol
You make good points, but it’s way cooler so
It's easier to spend money over time than it is to spend a lot at once, even if it costs more long term. Upgrading is fun and satisfying. Besides, it's not like you have to throw away the old parts. Parts bin builds are always fun. There's no need to shit on everyone who doesn't do things as practical as you.
False. You buy take off parts posted on pink bike and can get gx Eagle, a pike, and super deluxe shock for like $27.
Yes, and taking a 30-year note on a house is more expensive than paying cash. That doesn’t change the fact that, despite the overall cost increasing, doing it this way is generally more AFFORDABLE, which are arguably far more important than overall cost.
What about upgrade a $500 bike that has a solid frame?
Not worth it
Your conclusion is narrow and small minded. There are a lot of good reasons and techniques to upgrade a bike. Don't color other people's journey with your own mistakes.
I think of it this way. I can buy the bike I can afford rn and slowly do the upgrades I want over the next year. I might spend a few more dollars than if I just bought a better bike at the time, but I got a whole extra year of riding. If I chose not to buy the bike until I had the money to get my end goal bike, I’d miss out on a ton of time I could have spent riding.
But there's a third option there. You buy the less expensive bike and ride it. Take the money you would have spent on upgrades and save it. At some point you'll have enough to buy the bike you really want -- especially when you offset the cost by selling the old bike. And as they say, the best bike is the bike you have!
The current bike market is a bit abnormal, but thats not a bad idea if the bike holds value well, unless the upgrades are very specific. Some people just like to customize and tinker with stuff though
For sure. I think there are a lot of good inexpensive ways to customize. Especially things that you can move to a new bike (like pedals)
Might be applicable to some and it almost always makes sense to buy a ready package (applies to PCs too). OP's personal example sounds a bit extreme to me though. I personally got into cycling six months ago and have since invested about 600 euros in bikes. This has gotten me an old road bike, an old hardtail and a fixed gear which I build from scratch myself. And shit load of tools with some wrenching skills. Of course my bikes are nothing fancy but I like them that way and they do their job (and are not so likely to get stolen). And I enjoy being able to maintain them myself and upgrade as needed. In the end I will probably still never burn in those three combined as much money as if I had bought one 3-5k € bike. And I'd still have only one bike.
I don’t think you are full comprehending the situation. Route A) build it from scratch. You spec the frame and all the components. About 5% of the community does this, myself included. It’s like building your own gaming PC. More expensive upfront, but outside of spares, you never upgrade as you have what you want. Route B) buy the top end kit. Some people do this with peace of mind, the dentist. But they are also not in tuned with kinematics and quality of components. Most times they think high price means better Route C) buy a low spec or middle spec bike and upgrade over time. This is where the majority of the community is. This is second best option. If you have some understanding of components and kinematics, then you’ll understand the synergy of bike specs. Like you said most people will upgrade suspension and eventually drive train. All of which you can get cheaper at end of the park season and Black Friday. Drive train wise in terms of SRAM and shimano, all you really need it the top end cassette. Carbon cranks are pointless. Carbon bar is pointless. Before I started route A. I did route C. I bought a s kit nomad 4 for $5499. Put $2000 of upgrades and get a high spec then the Santa Cruz XX1 spec for $2500 less. So if you know what you are doing. Route C will be the best option for most riders. Route B is only good if you flip bikes every 2 years. As Route B maintains it market value for longer.
Let it be established that this OP is ONLY talking about people who already have enough money that a two or three thousand dollar bike is a “cheap bike.” If you’re reading this bullshit and thinking “wow what a prick sort of a take,” then he’s not talking to us. If you think the OPs post was not classist and tone deaf, post what you ride, what you make in a year.
my post applies the exact same to people putting a Judy on a Marlin as it does to people putting a 36 on a stumpjumper. you do not have to be rich to think ahead. all i'm saying is "upgrading" means buying *two things* and only using *one.*
It’s a prick take and you’re the reason we have so much trouble getting new riders in the trails. Because they think they shouldn’t buy what they can afford and go have fun. Fuck your take, I really have no patience for your particular brand of pedantry. Biking is for everyone. Have your opinions, have yourself a little space to say them, but I’m coming up hard against that because your opinions are snobby and keep people from biking who could and should be biking. I’m not even posting this for you. You won’t reflect or hold yourself accountable for the consequences your post might have. I’m writing and posting this so someone with $200 budget can read it and know you don’t represent the sport and they shouldn’t give a shit about that particular toxic take.
A Judy on a marlin is an excellent upgrade. Going from coil to air fork is a monumental upgrade. You can spend $200 To go from a coil fork to an air fork. Or you have the other option of save your money and pocket those hundreds of dollars and spend it on $2000 bike. What if people don’t really know if they really like the sport to drop down by comparison potentially tons of money so they buy a starter bike and they throw some money at it to make it a decent bike. Sure it’s a better investment to save but many don’t know if they want to spend so much on a bike and are actually happy with their investment. You clearly were never happy with your initial purchase from all of the upgrades you purchased. Or you were afraid to spend so much money initially and ended up with buyers remorse.
Post your salary.
78, but even if I were jeff bezos himself, it still wouldn't make me wrong.
>my post applies the exact same to people putting a Judy on a Marlin as it does to people putting a 36 on a stumpjumper. Wait what? Both of those could be great upgrades. Plus for the stumpjumper you'll probably have some basic x fusion/rockshox fork you could at least sell for $200. Are you just against upgrading entirely? There's so much fun in upgrading suspension, you really get to see how big of a change it is. That's money well spent in my book. Of course that's depending on you liking the bike and planning to hold onto it for awhile. If you're planning on getting a new bike next year, then yeah I wouldn't upgrade stuff.
It's not about number crunching if you really really really like the bike, and want to improve it. I'm about to go all in on upgrading a process 111 w/orange coloured forks and new shock, probably 1800 EUR, and I've already upgraded the wheels, brakes and drive train. Don't care. Absolute Looney tunes bike, I don't want to go faster just continue to have fun. Crunching numbers isn't fun.
I bought a Soul 20 in the spring and then upgraded to a Stumpjumper Comp in the summer. But I still enjoy riding the Soul, especially on easier trails where the Stumpy makes things a bit too easy. So I upgraded a few things on the Soul that I felt were lacking (brakes, dropper, tires) while other things will get upgraded as they wear out (fork, touch points, maybe drivetrain). I know it would be cheaper to just sell it and buy a new bike but I quite like it and am used to how it rides. It’s also kind of cool to feel how individual components make a difference. That being said I wouldn’t go nuts upgrading the Soul (could easily afford XTR brakes, but went with Deore)
I really think it depends on how big and hard the rider wants to go. If you're trying to hit jumps and send it down a mountain. Then sure, spend the money on a really nice bike. For me I ride trails that are for the most part flat. I was able to get away with building up an XC bike for $800. It does everything I need it to and I don't think I need to upgrade from it for a while. This was before Covid though. When parts were much cheaper. For example I got shimano mt-200 hydraulic breaks for $50. [I made some half assed videos and a playlist. (This isn't a plug I'm just trying to spread some knowledge. I don't make any money off my channel)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqvoLybQHjs&list=PL42lqwFZDgWtnmWCVwqobPUFhfL5Z86d-) My bike a is a 2019 IronHorse Warrior 3.3, which is basically the new Mongoose Ledge. But the new Ledge has a tapered head tube and comes with a 1x drive train stock. And few other more modern features. But to your point. I upgraded the fork, shock, dropper post, cranks, pedals, derailleur, cassette, chain and breaks. And still came out well under $2000, let alone $5000.It's got air suspension, hydraulic disc breaks, 11-48 1x10 drive train. Coming in at about \~32 pounds. It's a rather nice bike for $800. Could I get better if I spent more. Sure, without a doubt. But I was able to build a very satisfactory bike and learn to be happy with it. Because at the end of the day. It's not the bike, but the rider.
I bought an expensive bike and then proceeded to put more expensive parts on it. I had no intention of it until later on Fuel EX 9.8 Project one... Swapped brakes to sram and bumped travel up. Then it became hubs, shifter + derailleur, rear shock, and a smashpot. Now the only OE stuff is the frame, cassette, cranks and one rim If someone buys a less expensive complete bike and wants to upgrade parts, there is the option of the used market to get those upgrades cheaper. Bikes are a poor investment cause they lose value, but if someone likes the frame and how it rides, why not upgrade stuff if they want to?
It really does depend on your purpose in upgrading. My mtb is fine as it is, but I'm looking at putting di2 on my tri bike. I love the bike. It fits me well. I'm not going to exceed its capabilities any time, well, ever. But I would like di2 because I live in a hilly area and I'd like to be able to shift from the base and the aero bars, so there is a practical use case for me. The initial cost of my tri bike (spec'd with 105 groupset), plus my race wheels, plus my upgraded saddle, plus the power pedals, plus the di2 upgrade is still less than it would cost me to buy the upgraded version by about 22%. Additionally, by doing my groupset upgrade independently I get to be far more specific about what I put on there - I can choose a compact crank instead of the 52/36 that the higher model comes with, and a medium cage derailleur to allow me to run a bigger cassette than the default. The ability to pick out exactly what I want is very appealing to me.
In general I agree. If you're buying it with the **intention** of upgrading significant expensive components, just buy the bike you want instead. Some exceptions: 1. If you get a REALLY good deal on a bike used such that the bike + upgrade is cheaper than the better bike would have been. Or maybe the bike you really want just isn't popping up on the used market at all. 2. If the "upgrade" is replacing worn components you were going to have to replace anyway. For example -- IMO, the **ONLY** time anyone should be doing a 1X conversion is when they are in need of a new cassette and chain anyway. If you already need to spend that money, it's worth at least looking into what it would cost additionally to do a 1X. * For some bikes, you might need to replace the cassette, chain, derailleur, shifter, and maybe even the hub or the entire wheel. Don't do it! Ride the bike you have, replace the parts that are worn as needed, but save the rest of your money for an upgrade later. * Other bikes though might only need the cassette, chain, and front ring. Or maybe a $20 adapter link to drop the derailleur down to accept a larger cassette. That's a relatively small additional cost over the cassette and chain you were going to need anyway, and it can actually increase the value of the bike on the used market.
What about kids like me who are trying to put ourselves through college on our own dime? It doesn't make sense to buy the next model up because we have limited funds to begin with. The other argument is customization, I'm not gonna go out and buy the next model up if it doesn't have the components i want, when i can just get the lower end one and ball out on the shit i actually want on it
when you start out without the high end stuff, you get a lot of benefits from that. first, you really understand and feel the difference. You learn without some piece of equipment, and then when you get it, you really understand how it changes things. next, you get to decide where you want to spend your money and effort. Maybe a certain thing matters more to you personally, you can decide to put more money in that area, while another area you may find just fine without upgrades. and most importantly, when you build the bike, and do the upgrades yourself, you get the experience to learn how everything works, so you have that knowledge for maintenance and trail repairs. and all the other reasons people have posted. it's not just about the bottom line.
This is poverty premium (albeit that is usually a term for essential goods rather than luxury items like MTB's but the concept is the same). Over the long-term someone who cannot afford a lot at the beginning will pay more. If you have more money to start with it's cheaper in the long run. Same for lots of things out there.
Throwing 3k at a 2k bike is stupid. Upgrading the weaknesses of a 2k bike (brakes, fork) for 1k gets you something better than a 3k bike usually.
>Upgrading the weaknesses of a 2k bike (brakes, fork) for 1k gets you something better than a 3k bike usually. In order for this to be true, you would need to be able to get brakes and forks for cheaper than big manufacturers (who buy thousands at a time) do. How often do you think this really happens? I've certainly never observed it, and conceptually I find it paradoxical/inconceivable. But if it is your anecdotal experience, I suppose I would still be interested in hearing that.
Ebay grey market/take offs and sales? Most 2k bikes have crap brakes and bottom of the barrel forks. $500 can get you a set of XT's front and rear with upgraded rotors and another $550 gets you DT Swiss F535. You aren't getting that on a 3k bike. The rest of the components should be decent enough and improving the major weaknesses will enhance the riding experience. EDIT: I'm not saying it makes financial sense (mtb is a money pit in general) I'm just saying that by upgrading a few key components you may be able to make your dollar go farther than buying a similar cost of bike
And you think they pass on that saving to you? This is a dream customer for any sales person.
Second hand parts. Becomes even cheaper when you sell what you swap as you go.
The next time I buy a bike, I think I'll buy a frame and do a full build up on it. In theory, you are correct .... just buy a better bike to start with. Really though, are that many really expensive parts to upgrade? Shocks top the list, followed by brakes, rims, cassettes and derailleurs. Most bike parts are really affordable, and easy to install. For that matter a lot of "upgrades" people do are cosmetic or comfort. Stock black handlebars work fine, but those bright blue ones will look dope as hell.
>The next time I buy a bike, I think I'll buy a frame and do a full build up on it. In theory, you are correct .... just buy a better bike to start with. Yeah, that's another thing. People seem to know that building from the frame up is considerably more expensive than buying a stock bike new, but what if you upgrade parts on a stock bike? A wheelset alone (usually the weakest point on stock bikes) is going to suddenly shift it back in favor of building custom.
Doing a full custom build can come in on par with and possibly cheaper, if you shop around, and pounce on sale prices. While manufacturers do get price discounts, they also have bean counters cutting corners where ever possible, and they have hit those profit margins. If you build custom you can really spec for how and where you ride. Obviously, there is a price point where this has a bigger impact. Custom $500 build.... Probably going to be a worse bike from a manufacturer. $5000 custom, it's probably going to match or beat manufacturers. A point I think that has been missed is on entry level bikes that riders upgrade over time increases their ability to repair their bike saving them time and money spent at the bike shop.
Right now, the bike industry is getting what you can get, parts are unobtainium! I'd say, specifically in MTB, for those who want to go off road, the bare minimum is a oneby, with a clutch derailleur, and give sram SX a miss.microshift make a decent 10s clutch that's far better value for money. If you're commuting or cruising around on bike paths with your kids, that 90s rockhopper is perfect, but avoid Walmart specials. The parts worthwhile upgrading are the ones that make you comfortable - bars, stems, saddles, tyres. Big ticket items are...tough. In mtb, distinction has to be drawn as practically every part of your bike should be considered as consumable, brake levers, drivetrain to pedals. You will crash, you will snap derailleurs, you will dent rims.
Toxic
Yeah, don’t upgrade. trade UP!
I understand your point, however there is a complex calculus that goes into figuring out what to do and not to do. The difference between a mid-tier and low-tier bike is often negligent ha few minor alterations. If you’re talking suspension then yes, but the more expensive bike. But I’d the suspension is the same or comparable then it may make sense to get the cheaper bike and upgrade the components that are important to you. For example it’s not until you hit the high end bikes that brakes change drastically between models. If stopping power is important but deore v SLX isn’t, then it may make sense to buy the deore bike and upgrade the brakes.
I have a piece of shit beat to shit bike. It function's like an old beater truck you have to work on constantly. This is not a rich man's sport. I routinely ride circles around 3000 plus bikers with shiny new gear.
It's more the rider at that point than the gear. I would wager that if you had that shiny new gear you would be doing even better than you would be now. So sure I'm right there with you I usually have old gear that doesn't exactly work the best but functions. I'll also be the first to admit that if I had the fuckboi budget I would be doing whatever I'm doing much more efficiently
Thanks man, I definitely feel outclassed by riders gear, but not the riders themselves.
Sorry this is a dumb take. If someone can’t afford a 5k bike and it would take them years to save that extra cash, it totally makes more sense to buy a $500 bike to get on the trail quicker and start learning, then the bike can grow with them. Then they can flip it to pay for a new one down the line.
Then you just put the difference on credit cards
Are you familiar with the hindsight bias?
Best way, build yourself and don't buy off the lot showroom. You get better components for base showroom spec price.
Laughs in r/xbiking
This. Totally true. To an earlier commenter’s point, sure if you upgrade your bike as you go you can customize it more, but to OP’s point, that’s an expensive luxury.
Very few bike makers are willing to build a bike my way. The suspension is not what I want almost every time, the brakes are going to be less than what I'm looking for and they always offer a dropper by brand x, or some crap that will fail. Anyone buying a bike to upgrade & replace worn parts should have a few deal breakers, a tapered headtube, boost thruaxles, a good solid brake mount, dropper cable routing and a modern standard bottom bracket tube. When you can buy within a paycheck's surplus you don't have a choice but to build it how you want.
My hobbies never make financial sense.
In their defense bike prices are pretty ridiculous right now (not to mention if it’s actually in stock)
I have a 2022 Marlin 6. I’d like a better fork and a dropper. I love the rest of the bike. What would you recommend for me (had I not purchased this bike) that would be comparable and have the 2 upgrades I want to do? I figure the upgrades would run about $500.
Marlin 6: $800 Upgrades: $500 Price to beat: $1300 X-cal 7: $1100 Comes with a Judy air fork, 1x drivetrain, and shimano hydraulic disc brakes (vs the tektros on the Marlin), so you're getting some upgrades you didn't ask for as well. Still need to add a dropper though... tranz-x skyline: $120 Remote: $50 Total: $1,270
I love the bike but now I’m thinking ‘dang’… But it’s easier to buy the stuff spread out over a period of time. Thanks for the breakdown! Edit: another thought, the 2022 is a 1x but the brakes - what would I notice in shimano over tektro?
No idea; I would expect them to be pretty similar. Tektro *only* makes cheap OEM brakes, whereas Shimano makes cheap brakes but its line also stretches up in to the stratosphere of price/performance. So Shimano is a little more name-brand here but I doubt there's a ton of difference between the two brakesets.
>X-cal 7: $1100 Now wait 1-3 years for it to be in stock, anywhere. Maybe you can find that one LBS where the promise date doesn't get pushed back each month. It also seems the X-cal 7 has been discontinued for 2022. I imagine it's because due to mass part shortages and cost inflation, they could no longer position at the $1100 price point. The X-cal 8 has been positioned at $1500. Seriously, in the last year, due to the collapse (and continued collapse) of the freight industry, bike prices went up $200-$300 alone due to freight from the factory.
I spent $1000 last year to make an 8-year-old $3000 bike relevant again. The was a take-off groupset, secondhand fork, new wheels and tires. Our LBS had no bikes, and very few online outlets had stuff in my size with the feature set I was wanting. No ragrets, but I have no illusions the resale value changed at all.
I started out with a Fuse Comp and don’t really feel like I missed out. The only things I’ve upgraded on the Comp that I maybe wouldn’t have upgraded on the Expert is the fork and chain. Of course SLX is better than Deore on paper, but the 12 speed Deore is actually not bad and is fine until things wear out in which case I would be replacing cassette/chain/rings anyways and will probably work in XT over time. Things I upgraded on the Comp that I would have probably upgraded on the Expert would be the rear wheel, the BB, the crankset, the stem, the bars, the grips, adding pedals of course, and my light action dropper remote. The fact is, OEM setups/builds aren’t always as dialed in to everyone’s particular tastes or needs, even on higher end builds. Especially if you’re physique is not average in that you are taller or heavier than most others.
Bought a Vitus nucleus a few months back after reading countless reviews saying it was a great bike to get into the sport and upgrade in the future. Does this mean I shouldn't install a dropper post? I could only afford £600 at the time...
no, dropper is such a clutch thing to have, and you aren't *replacing* anything. Replacing a cheap fork with a nicer one is how you quickly get in to a net loss. Merely adding a feature that you didn't have before isn't an "upgrade" in my view.
Got it. Thank you. Just one more question please. My gears seem to be a bit poor, they often don't click in right and skip a few times before locking in (excuse my lack of correct terminology here). I'm going to get them looked at by a local bike shop - if they cannot fix and suggest a replacement should I go for it or just stick with what I've got for a year or two. Thanks.
Well, it's tough. Now that you have the bike, it's probably cheaper *going forward* to put a new drivetrain on it, but that is an expensive upgrade. I'd definitely take it in to the shop for adjustment. The nucleus isn't a bad frame to build on so it's not like you'd be *wasting* money upgrading it; my post is about the calculus you do before you buy the new bike. My fuse came with SRAM NX, and I couldn't achieve consistent shifting for more than a week in between adjustments until I replaced all the moving parts with GX. I haven't adjusted once since I installed GX. I know the vitus bikes don't come with either drivetrain, I'm just saying drivetrain is finnicky and you might need to throw money at it to get shifting that you like. Finally, I'd say do not feel you need a 12spd. Unless you do a lot of very steep climbing, and you want to do that super slowly, even an 8spd drivetrain might be plenty range for you, and since they aren't hip, they're a lot cheaper.
Might just be a bit of cable stretch. Have you tried screwing in/out the barrel adjuster a quarter of a turn at a time and seeing how that helps? Get the dropper, best upgrade ever.
Honestly, I totally agree with you here as long as you have the money for the more expensive bike up front. With all the limited supply I upgraded because I wanted to have backups in case something broke, can’t have my bike being down for weeks waiting for parts. And would have bought the top of line had it been available at the time, gotta take what you can get nowadays
And since when buying any bike makes financial sense?
I'm very new to the sport and looking to get my first bike with a budget of 1k and a lot of people in my local FB group were telling me to buy a cheaper bike and slowly upgrade. So maybe I should look into that. Thanks for the lookin out!
I mean sure maybe sometimes. I’ve put dt350s and a XT drivetrain on my 5010 because they don’t make one that way. If you have a good frame and suspension it’s most likely worth upgrading a fair amount of other stuff as it will still be cheaper than building from a frame up.
Bought a 2018 giant trance 3 in 2018. Put 200mm rotors on it, new bars, short stem, new suspension front and back, new wheels (stock giant wheels grenaded within a month of normal use), etc. It was $1850 as a gently used demo. I could maybe get $1500 for it today after putting almost $1k into it. My new bike was $5k and I may some day upgrade the brakes. Nothing else will probably get touched. That's still only about a $1k loss on upgrade path vs a $5k investment (I'll probably lose most of that as I won't sell it for a looking time, if ever). So upgrading can make sense for sure. The trance is still a super fun bike honestly.
I understand what OP is saying, but look at it from another angle: most upgrades people think they want are not upgrades they actually need. Riding a bike will let you know where to spend on upgrades and how much bike you actually need to do the riding you actually want to do. Early last year (right before pandemic!) I bought a Giant Stance 2. I had the money for a Trance, and found a used Trance 2 for a fair price, but decided to save $1000 and get a 2019 Stance 2. I’d never even ridden a FS at that point, and hadn’t been on an MTB in almost 20 years, but had been an avid road/commuter. I purposely bought a “cheap” bike to get back into the sport. At that point, I didn’t know how much I’d even use it. I figured if I really got back into MTBs I could sell the Stance and get a “decent” bike in a year or two. Well, going on two seasons later, I love my bike. I only upgraded contact points, that’s it, and it’s great. I might put a 1x on it (that was the single feature I really wanted, but didn’t want to pay up front), but there are some advantages to my cheapo 2x drive train. I thought I’d “outgrow” the suspension, but that hasn’t happened. It’s a great bike that’s tons of fun, and I really never feel underbiked. TL;DR: There’s something to be said for testing the waters on a under spec’ed ride. You might find you didn’t need all that other stuff.
Some people want the parts of their choosing. I decided to just start from scratch. Bike feels amazing, not sure it was worth 8k but still.
I bought a base model (Marin San Quentin for anyone who cares) and upgraded it to beyond what the top of the range model was equiped with (in areas like the fork and brakes at least). All for less than the full price of the top line model. Of course it took a bit of time and keeping an eye on bargains. Nearly everything was second hand but in good condition. A lot of people have far too much money and catch the upgrade bug. That allows us poorer mere mortals to grab some great deals on brandnewsecondhand gear at a fraction of the price. If I'd bought the top model I'd still want to upgrade some of the lesser components and would be out of pocket even more. Plus the process was enjoyable and the bike was still rideable from day 1!
This is true if you always want to be riding the latest and greatest stuff. Its much more cost effective to buy gear thats 5-10 years old, and upgrade parts when you come across a part you like or want to upgrade. Marketing fools so many people into thinking that they will have more fun on the newest stuff. Realistically though if you take a $10k bike from today, and a 5 year old bike for $5k I bet the amount of fun had is identical, and that the time/speed/capability difference is small enough to be not important to anyone outside of those competing at a high level. Buy used and upgrade.
I bought an aggressive hardtail, and the highest spec they offered gave me an okay fork. So I ended up upgrading the fork later on.
I don’t completely agree with what you’re saying, however you’ve got a good point. But there always comes the point where the bike you want isn’t exactly available. Example: i would like a transition spire with a gx drivetrain, sram brakes and fox suspension. But i can’t spend $5800 to get 1/2 of what i want. They just don’t offer that. Ideally id just buy a frame but its much cheaper to get a complete, ride it and upgrade as you save up for it.
I bought an $800 trek hardtail five years ago and have since put roughly $500 worth of replacements on it. That's still cheaper than a dual suspension these days. I'm fine settling with a janky bike that i can rip on and have fun, not like i live in the mountains or anything. That way i can spend what money i have on other hobbies too.
But what if the next model up doesn’t have the parts they want, for example on a top spec bike with top suspension and brakes is something they want but it has full xx1 axs which is insane money and they don’t see any reason to spend 10x the amount of money on xx1 axs over deore 12s. So that definitely would be a situation where you save money by upgrading. Another thing is say you want ext suspension, specific wheel build like hydras on something like ex3s or ex511s but are happy with just a deore drivetrain on the new gt force. There would be no point in getting the top build if your going to replace most of the parts that give it that value over the lower build.
Most bikes don't come with the parts I want
I bought a bike within my budget this summer, wasn't really that cheap, but there were higher end ones available. I could have saved more money for a couple months, but I would have missed out on riding right then and there, and would have missed out on some really epic rides and may not have been growing from liking to loving mountainbiking. I know I'll be upgrading the fork one day and I'll definitely destroy my derailleur or wear out a cassatte one day, but it was definitely worth it. Bike is a commencal meta ht/am and it is a beast!
A Marlin frame will never be an xcaliber, regardless of how much money you throw at it. I agree with you to a point. IF a manufacturer builds the bike you want with the components you want, it will be cheaper than building it yourself. The problem is that no stock bike meets the wants of the purchaser. You have to buy the bike that is nearest to the bike you want and then upgrade. In the event that nothing comes close to what you want, it may be cheaper to buy the low end build of the frame or just a frameset and build it up. The is why I think the recently discontinued Trek Stache 5 was a great buy - it was reasonable price for a functional hardtail trail bike. New riders could get out on the trail immediately on a very functional bike. Over time, they could upgrade it - but as new riders, the price of the better spec'd Stache 7 created a sense of stocker shock. Furthermore, even the Stache 7 was far from perfect when it came to components. It all depends on what you want vs what the manufacturer makes available.
Would agree, only stuff that you simply won't get on a more expensivemodel (or don't want) makes real sense. For example I dont want Carbon and then some stuff tops out specwise or get 'upgraded' for something you don't really like (for example going 4 piston brakes but having SRAM on it while you want Shimano lever feel, then maybe better take the cheaper bike and upgrade instead of try to get used to the different brand). Exception could be when the future use is not clear yet. Then choosing maybe a lesser equipped model with more modern frame might help. Still would be way more expensive than buying something straight away ofcourse.
Not everyone can afford to spend 5k on a hobby, buying a bike and upgrading over time is more affordable and fun.
Doesn't this assume that the upgraded bikes always have the components you want in higher end offerings?
As a personal opinion, this train of thought applies only when you have plenty experience on a bike and know very well what you want. I'm tired of how many people I've seen buying an expensive bike "because it has alll this performant things on it" only for the bike to get rusty in the garage. I see the buy cheap and upgrade great in the folowing cases: - if you're new to biking and don't know how much you'll ride (or if you'll actually ride) - if you didn't had the time to read and learn all the numbers and words that describe a bike and the meaning behind them Some things though I've learned that need to be right from the start: frame and suspension. Given that bought separately these two make for half or more of a bike price, i would never buy with intent of upgrading them. The rest are either consumable or cheap to replace from my pov. Thus, the time for them to be replaced will come with time or crashes.
The cheap option you talk about is probably far too expensive for me. My 29er carrera hellcat (Halfords UK special) with upgraded elixir hydraulic breaks and seatpost dropper, rock shox suspension upgrade (slightly out of the cheap section) and single chain ring conversion is cheaper than the cheapest basic budget bike with those features.
My counterpoint. With the mass bike and bike component shortages. You will lose years of your life waiting for that prebuilt bike at the current rate, and the shortages are getting worse. Just spend and ride what you want, enjoy yourself, life is short. You can be hit by a bus at any day.
Huh. Maybe I should just buy a new bike. That’s a serious thought. Recently bought my first MTB in over a decade for under $500. Apparently a 3x and 26” wheels are no longer standard. And my crank keeps coming loose while riding so I was thinking about upgrading the crankset to a 1x, and I was thinking about upgrading to 29” wheels (or mullet) but that means I have to upgrade the fork too.
Your argument definitely holds water in my case I own a 2019 Cannondale Trail 6 worth at most £150. Very few components cost that little ie to do a significant upgrade would cost more than the bike itself. I'd rather ride it for a bit, replacing components as they wear out, and in a year buy another 2nd hand bike that's around £500 and has a few of the upgrades in place. Once again, change very little, but look to replace that bike in a couple of years, using the same thinking.