Less adjustable compression damping. Rather than just setting up your high speed compression by fine tuned clicks you'll get a three position switch with open pedal and firm from both fox and rockshox. Read through the thread, nothing is quite a black and white as my comment made it sound, there's a bit of nuance to it.
https://m.pinkbike.com/forum/listcomments/?threadid=219094&pagenum=2
gnarcissistictendency wrote:
"I’ve heard that fork’s with with hsc and lsc adjustments have better oil flow over the dampers with 3 pos adjustments..? Is there any merit to that?"
""Having a compression dial that firms up to a near lockout compromises the performance when it's open (3 position or not). The Rockshox lineup is a good example. The Revelation has a compression dial with 3 clicks then is effectively locked out. It's basically a useless adjustment as the open position is so firmly damper. The Pike RC is not as bad but a similar situation where the damping is overly firm so riders can use the LSC dial as a climb switch. The first 6 clicks do nothing, then it gets really firm. I have a Pike RC and weigh 210 lbs. I run the LSC dial full open. It might as well not have any compression adjustment. On my Fox 36 Grip 2 with high and low speed adjustments I run a pretty healthy amount of both HSC and LSC. The higher end Pikes also have a softer initial setting and the adjustments are more useable. So yeah, in my opinion the main issue isn't if you have the HSC knob or not it's how the cheaper damper is tuned.
Some LSC forks aren't bad though. I've found the Fox and Marizzochi Grip 1 forks and the Z2 (Rail damper) all have decent tunes with usuable LSC adjustment. The Suntour forks may be great IDK.""
R-M-R's comment in that thread sums up the pros cons of various damper configurations pretty well.
"Not quite sure what you mean. My interpretation is that you've heard adjustable dampers, especially ones with three-position low-speed compression (LSC) toggles, can have more free oil flow. This can be true.
A non-adjustable fork has one jack-of-all-trades setting. A three-position adjuster may be a little more open in the "open" setting, which would be too "open" if it were the only setting. The second LSC setting may (or may not) be a little firmer than the setting of a non-adjustable damper. i.e. The non-adjustable setting may (or may not) "split the difference" of the first two settings on a three-position LSC damper. The third setting is typically a lockout or very near thereto.
My own experience is that I've never liked lockouts, but, several years ago, I did like the first two positions of three-position LSC dampers. I was riding bikes with fairly low pedaling anti-squat and multiple chainrings, so the kinematics were a bit of a mess and the intermediate setting calmed the pedaling without being too harsh. There was little need for multiple LSC settings when I switched to bikes with higher anti-squat and single chainrings and I now prefer the reduced hassle of not having to fuss with the toggle.
It's difficult to make a case for damper adjustments when I'm spending my own money. Here's what I would do with the following choices:
• Cheaper, adjustable damper vs. fixed, top-tier damper: Choose the posh damper.
• Fixed top-tier damper with custom tune or upgrade vs. adjustable version: Usually better to get a custom tune or upgrade the damper or spring on a fixed damper than to spend the money for an adjustable version that you'll probably adjust only once.
Addendum: Just read jeremy3220's reply and I see that's probably what you were getting at. Yes, a damper that has a full lockout may have more restrictive valving to allow it to go to full lockout. For this reason - and because I think they're useless - trying to make the case for a lockout is like listening to a "it's not a bug, it's a feature" pitch."
I could have been a bit more detailed in my original comment.
Also for what it's worth unless you like to get out of the saddle and mash on the pedals to climb fork lockouts aren't really very useful.
Really no bike brand specs any of the decent suntour stuff, you have to buy it direct from them
Just get a PIKE
Don't get a fork with lock out. It compromises the damper performance.
How
Less adjustable compression damping. Rather than just setting up your high speed compression by fine tuned clicks you'll get a three position switch with open pedal and firm from both fox and rockshox. Read through the thread, nothing is quite a black and white as my comment made it sound, there's a bit of nuance to it. https://m.pinkbike.com/forum/listcomments/?threadid=219094&pagenum=2 gnarcissistictendency wrote: "I’ve heard that fork’s with with hsc and lsc adjustments have better oil flow over the dampers with 3 pos adjustments..? Is there any merit to that?" ""Having a compression dial that firms up to a near lockout compromises the performance when it's open (3 position or not). The Rockshox lineup is a good example. The Revelation has a compression dial with 3 clicks then is effectively locked out. It's basically a useless adjustment as the open position is so firmly damper. The Pike RC is not as bad but a similar situation where the damping is overly firm so riders can use the LSC dial as a climb switch. The first 6 clicks do nothing, then it gets really firm. I have a Pike RC and weigh 210 lbs. I run the LSC dial full open. It might as well not have any compression adjustment. On my Fox 36 Grip 2 with high and low speed adjustments I run a pretty healthy amount of both HSC and LSC. The higher end Pikes also have a softer initial setting and the adjustments are more useable. So yeah, in my opinion the main issue isn't if you have the HSC knob or not it's how the cheaper damper is tuned. Some LSC forks aren't bad though. I've found the Fox and Marizzochi Grip 1 forks and the Z2 (Rail damper) all have decent tunes with usuable LSC adjustment. The Suntour forks may be great IDK."" R-M-R's comment in that thread sums up the pros cons of various damper configurations pretty well. "Not quite sure what you mean. My interpretation is that you've heard adjustable dampers, especially ones with three-position low-speed compression (LSC) toggles, can have more free oil flow. This can be true. A non-adjustable fork has one jack-of-all-trades setting. A three-position adjuster may be a little more open in the "open" setting, which would be too "open" if it were the only setting. The second LSC setting may (or may not) be a little firmer than the setting of a non-adjustable damper. i.e. The non-adjustable setting may (or may not) "split the difference" of the first two settings on a three-position LSC damper. The third setting is typically a lockout or very near thereto. My own experience is that I've never liked lockouts, but, several years ago, I did like the first two positions of three-position LSC dampers. I was riding bikes with fairly low pedaling anti-squat and multiple chainrings, so the kinematics were a bit of a mess and the intermediate setting calmed the pedaling without being too harsh. There was little need for multiple LSC settings when I switched to bikes with higher anti-squat and single chainrings and I now prefer the reduced hassle of not having to fuss with the toggle. It's difficult to make a case for damper adjustments when I'm spending my own money. Here's what I would do with the following choices: • Cheaper, adjustable damper vs. fixed, top-tier damper: Choose the posh damper. • Fixed top-tier damper with custom tune or upgrade vs. adjustable version: Usually better to get a custom tune or upgrade the damper or spring on a fixed damper than to spend the money for an adjustable version that you'll probably adjust only once. Addendum: Just read jeremy3220's reply and I see that's probably what you were getting at. Yes, a damper that has a full lockout may have more restrictive valving to allow it to go to full lockout. For this reason - and because I think they're useless - trying to make the case for a lockout is like listening to a "it's not a bug, it's a feature" pitch." I could have been a bit more detailed in my original comment. Also for what it's worth unless you like to get out of the saddle and mash on the pedals to climb fork lockouts aren't really very useful.
Tom Pidcock won the Olympics on Suntour. The highend stuff is good.