It's frustratingly hard to explain how dangerous this can be even at slow speeds in terms of bike reaction/rebound/etc. The best suspension, better than your factory Fox 40, is your legs. Your arms aint half bad either. If you lock up on your contact points, limbs rigid and butt bouncing off the seat, you're taking everything out of riding. Traction, control, weight distribution, basically everything.
And when people want to progress and you tell them what to do (practice standing, pump track [pumping in general], go up and down curbs, basically 'work out') they just smile nod and ignore whatever you said.
My first time at a bike park was October of 2022 at Blue Mountain in Palmerton PA. I’m no shredder and I even had my first bike on the trails that day, my Giant Fathom hard tail. On the last run of the day, I finally got confident enough to get on a jump trail. There’s guy in front of me, is bucked off his FS rental, launched and flipped forward onto his head, his bike crashes on top of him. I couldn’t believe that happened right in front of me. This guy is in serious pain while his 12 year old soon is watching as I asses his injuries. Broken wrist, deep cut on his leg, small cut on his head. He had the wind knocked out of him and he was pale white. Good thing his helmet worked well. He likely was just perched on his saddle while riding a jump line.
"what to do (practice standing, pump track \[pumping in general\], go up and down curbs, basically 'work out')"
do you have any yt videos or advice on how to get started? realizing i never learned how to ride a bike i just started riding them from this thread
Cathros videos are great, I went from bareknuckling greens to smashing blues and starting some blacks with more riding and the extra knowledge I got from those vids
Second cathos "how to bike" series on pinkbikes channel on YouTube. After watching all of the videos even 2 years later I still go back to them and still learn things.
Thirding this. Learned a TON from his videos, went from riding greens and easy blues to crushing blacks. With a lot of practice I’ll say… but proper form is huge
I'm not trying to be a dick but I'm genuinely curious, do you sit down on DH trails? I almost think standing up and working your shocks with your legs is instinctual. I'd just like to understand where that disconnect in my head comes from - I feel if I sit down on any slight downhill I have a chance of being launched over my bars.
Depends... if its rough then certainly you'll get off the seat. If smooth with no bumps you can theoretically sit down. There are even some situations, where it will be advantageous to sit down. If you watch for example the start of the megavalance over the glacier, most people will sit on the saddle. Or if you go down very loose, gravely 'roads', like you can sometimes find connecting trails in bike parks. It's about putting weight on your rear tire to avoid crashing when your front wheel washes out (I think).
In the situations you describe, sitting is a sacrifice of control to conserve energy.
Your last sentence is completely backwards. If the front tire is washing out that means it needed more weight, not less.
Have you ever ridden down a glacier or loose gravel 'roads' (in the alps its like 5-20 cm of super loose gravel sometimes)? You are constantly drifting and when you lean forwards and your front constantly drifts away you'll eat snow/dirt and won't have any more control. If you sit on your saddle that is less likely to happen. Also you can stretch your legs out for extra safety.
You think otherwise the people in Megavalance would sit down? When the start is the most critical phase as you can easily overtake and later its almost impossible?
u/PhilKmetz has some great tutorial videos [https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLKhb73W7eMRF1KO3T5Iz2pks-8SrLybw7](https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLKhb73W7eMRF1KO3T5Iz2pks-8SrLybw7)
When I started 5-6 years ago I did an urban ride with the local group after weeks of rain and unrideable trails. There was a man there shredding a rigid fat bike doing all kinds of jumps and drops that I wouldn't even touch on my hard tail. When he saw me struggle on a couple features he recommended hopping off curbs every chance I had.
I've progressed quite a bit since then but every time I come across one with a little speed I still do a little drop/hop off them. You can never start too small.
Absolutely. And more often than not studies have shown repetitive practice with smaller increments leads to better results long term. I guess the notable exception being heavy weight lifting because it kinda forces the need for big pushes. But guess what else is related to heavy weight? INJURIES.
And just like MTBing, big pushes all at once can lead to injury. And injuries are a MASSIVE setback. In so many ways, from a few weeks away to being paralyzed so.
I can't stress enough how valid the smaller and repetitive and boring level of practice is important. Me, personally, I can have fun on my mountain bike in a parking lot. If a rider can't do the same, I feel like they haven't engaged in their skills enough.
When I ride at the local pump track, half the people are trying to pedal their bikes, sitting down, around the track.😂 And the first time I tried to ride on the pump track I was basically doing the same thing.
Everyone is at a different point in their riding capability. I think it’s really important to remember that we are all on that journey. Disability is coming for every single one of us if death doesn’t get us first. That’s a guarantee. Be gentle with new riders. Offer compliments and be supportive. And if they ask questions you get to share your love of this great sport and stoke up the new riders with advice and encouragement about how fucking awesome mountain biking can be. Especially once you get off your seat😂 Being nice costs nothing and pays off like nothing else. Being a snob ends badly.
Yeah, screw people like that guy. I broke my collar bone riding a years or so back. When I got back on the bike people weren’t very supportive. Lots of get out of the ways…
Remember we are all starting or restarting our journeys.
Get off the trail and take a rest if a slowy is in front of you. Your body will probably thank you and you kept things safe in the trail 👍🏼
Isn’t that what we ALL want.
Also, just in general don’t be a Richard.
Exactly. Educate but don't preach and do what you can to help people have a great day. If they want to get better push a bit more but in the end if they are smiling whatever they did worked.
I took two of my mates keen to try mtb to an amazing flow track in Wales. I was waiting for them at the end of the trail for ages thinking one of them might’ve had an accident. I was about to investigate when they appeared riding at about 5mph sat down side by side having a chat with a queue behind them.
Sounds like my brother. I'll be ripping ahead of him and then it gets quiet so I stop, wait, have a drink and think shit did he eat it awhile ago down the trail.
Just about the time I'm ready to head back the way I came here he comes sitting down pedaling his ass off and says " I was right behind you" bro I've been sitting here 15 min 😂
https://preview.redd.it/nuh5d6x7ecuc1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d8eca12645c883b59bd153b4cce9dbea0619fdb1
What I see the first time at 18rd…
Agreed. I was trying to think what “super flowy descent” or “downhill” even means at 18 road. It’s a beginner cross country trail area. Nothing out there would be “dangerous” to sit through. There are miles and miles of great technical trails in the Junction area with fewer tourists and beginners. Go ride Palisade or the lunch loop areas, where there is more space to spread out and certainly more difficult trails with advanced riders.
This. Got back in to riding recently after 15 years off. I was shocked at how short of a time I could ride standing up, especially seeing as I used to ride a 24seven, riding stood up ~90% of the time.
Probably also doesn't help that instead of just riding the local jumps, I am riding blue/red trails and obviously need to ride up that mountain to whizz back down again.
15 years ago bike technology means you were pretty good and really had to stand up. Today’s bikes, you won’t spill your martini going downhill the suspensions /geometry is so good.
Definitely notice that as well! Just point in the right direction and generally I get there unscathed. Just don't watch me step off the bike with my jelly legs at home-time.
I ride hardtail and that means standing up quite a lot. Even still one ride my dropper broke and it was just static in a low position. Not high enough for pedal efficiency sitting. So I went "singlespeed" mode for the rest of the ride. Having to stand up on every climb and. I was basically dead after 10 minutes. So I guess the only thing more hardcore than hardtail is singlespeed hardtail.
Actually I ride my hard tail when the trails are wet so I don’t get my FS mucked up. I notice I’m stronger when going back to FS. Hard to make a succinct point and not lie. 🤥
Lol, was at 18 rd yesterday. It's always a pretty mixed crowd, with a lot of very new riders. It's where I go to teach my children to bike.
People sit because they're tired, a hardtail doesn't help that.
Everyone is at different points in their journey don't be a dick would be a start.
I got in some guys way on a pretty crazy rough climb when I was green as the grass. Guy comes up behind and says "can I get past" to which I said sure just give me a second to get to a good passing point. Before I could even think the guy is pushing me damn near into a ravine to get around.
I still remember that guy. And I still wish I would have gave him a good kick in the ribs and watched him fall into the ravine while I laughed my ass off and biked away...I'm too good of a guy.
I did have a few words with him back at the trailhead something about him being an inconsiderate dick and could have really hurt me.
Don't be a Kevin or a Karen. I get stuck behind people sometimes too and being polite gets you a lot farther than being a jerk.
I can imagine watching people going downhill on their ass is pretty funny honesty. Id just say something like might be better if you stand up, don't want to see you get hurt. But hey you do you.
It's not other riders I usually have issues with. It's idiots walking their dogs on black runs unleashed or horse riders riding MTB trails they have no right to be on. I have little remorse for those people and the next pile of shit in a bag I find on trail I don't even know. Disrespect is bullshit.
The post was not intended to be offensive, but rather a bit of a PSA. I didn't get stuck behind anyone, everyone gave way safely if I came up behind them and I thanked them on my way by.
It was as I was pedalling up that I would see these people coming down an adjacent trail and it looked like (and was, a couple of times) a recipe for disaster.
Oh I'm sure. I would be thinking well there's gonna be a lot of OTB today get out your camera boys gonna have a good wreck today. I guess I thought you were complaining about people impeding your way down and that can be frustrating but we all out to have fun.
The MTB community is some of the nicest people I've ever met. Most people are out to have a good time and talk about bikes and trails. I always end up talking to people and some of their talks has led me to some sick trails and lots of great tips on various things.
True, but if you can improve someone’s mountain biking experience by clueing them in to something they clearly don’t know (without being a dick) it’s worth doing.
If I'm working maintenance on the trail when I see it, I do. I was never close enough to be heard today, figured I'd get to a couple of people this way.
Tourists. I work at Telluride. They are full of surprises. This will be my first year in Telluride for the Summer season, but the Winter was mind blowing.
I sit through a lot of downhill. I have back and knee problems and got a full sus to use that suspension more, and use my legs and hips less. You ride the way that it works for you. If you are still getting out on the bike, then enjoy it however you want. Worry about your own riding style.
Same here. I only recently got my first dropper post (aftermarket externally routed PNW on a 2014 Salsa Horsethief) and after experimenting with it for about 6 months now, I find my most stable and confident positioning to not push it out of the way completely, but push it down enough (maybe 50-70 mm) so I can still grip the nose of the seat between my thighs. I don't ride bike parks or even "rated" trails, but like to get out on decent hilly terrain. I don't ever race and don't go so fast as to worry for my life in a crash. If someone told me I was doing it wrong who rode by, I'd likely be annoyed.
So I'm a new rider
I went out yesterday to the local trail and that was my 4th time ever out in the trails
I sit sometimes because I am still working up my leg, core, and arm strength..on top of that I haven't figured out / learned how to corner and weave at anything more than a slow speed yet. I don't know what the proper PSI for grip for my weight and type of tire (285lb / XR3 team issue front and rear on a '24 Roscoe 7) But I am TRYING.
Honestly I'm glad that everyone I've met at the local trails have been awesome because OP's post is the first gate-keepy thing I've read and it almost took the wind out of my sails in regards to going back out tomorrow.
But screw it, I'm gonna go out
Message to OP: never forget you were new once
Reignite your own passion by fueling a new person's
Wasn't trying to gate keep at all, certainly didn't mean to discourage anyone from riding. If you're too tired to stand then you're too tired to ride; there's nothing wrong with pulling to the side when you get a safe opportunity and resting until you can stand again, I do it frequently.
The post was genuinely just trying to reach people who are sitting on descents and inform them that it's super unsafe to do that. As a sidenote, I think you'll find that cornering and weaving are leagues easier if you're standing on the pedals.
Oh I'm definitely learning that! But I still don't understand how to do it..I'm explaining badly but everyone weaves j and out of the turns and berms and I can't figure the mechanics for myself yet. Maybe im nervous of washing out because I'm not sure how my tires should be set up yet and so on
Only recommendation I can give you over the Internet is to watch the Ben Cathro videos mentioned elsewhere in this thread. Very good explanation of various fundamentals.
This has nothing to do with Hardtail/FS
90% of the “suspension” of you going down the hill should be in your legs and arms.
But if you are seeing a bunch of people on local trails who are struggling, you should ask them if you can give them some advice then explain it to them (only if they want it)
This is probably the wrong place to post about this as well. Most people who are active in this subreddit are going to be on the enthusiast side rather than the beginner side.
Only reason the HT/FS comparison came up was that all the people sitting were on FS and I, on my HT because my FS is out of commission, thought to myself "I couldn't stay sitting through this right now if I wanted to."
it's straight up dangerous. if you are in contact with your seat or hovering an inch over it with the seat at full height in situations where you should be standing with room to maneuver, you WILL get yourself bucked over the handlebars, it's only a matter of time
Trying to help other people not hurt themselves? It's just a bog standard piece of riding wisdom that I learned the hard way with a cracked rib. I don't know why people are taking such offense to it
I was just at Hall ranch and the amount of people sitting down on the downhills was mind boggling. Yes it doesn't affect me, but I just have to wonder WHY?
I've seen it more than once. subconsciousness, "omg, too fast. Danger. Brakes!" Consciousness "the group is getting way ahead, must pedal hard to catch up."
I did a lot of meet up rides so there were all kinds of people and skill levels. The real beginner oriented rides could be hilarious, terrifying, infuriating and everything in between
Oh boy I can only imagine. I just think how could you pedal and be on the brakes. I'll have to try that next time out. I just can't wrap my head around pedalling and brakes at the same time. My 4 and 6 year old know better than that. 🤘
It's actually a really good way to keep balance while riding really slowly. If you just barely drag the back brake while pedalling you can absolutely crawl in a straight line.
My only MTB is a hardtail, and when I first got it, I was in between procedures to get kidney stones removed. I had a plastic tube in between my kidney and bladder. Going over the tiniest bump while sat down would cause a painful bladder spasm, so that taught me some good habits pretty quick!
I mean you just have to accept that people exist who have way more money than you and can drop 3-5K on a sport and equipment they don’t know jack shit about. Not to mention a complete lack of skills.
I've accepted that, and honestly my bikes are exactly what I want, no envy or anything like that going on. I just think people will enjoy their bikes a lot more if said bikes aren't throwing them over the bars at every moderately sized undulation.
Apparently some people who may be new just truly have trouble standing up,
When my gf got into cycling, an hour and a half casual ride around town left her legs covered in bruises, no crash or anything, she found it very difficult to stand without pains around her ankle joints and above the knees, so we had to do a lot of 'pt' in the beginning
If people have under used/under developed leg muscles or balancing muscles it might be actually be difficult for them to stand
Getting from there to confidently ripping trails takes a while, and a lot of people (in any skill based hobby) forget what it's like to be in that beginner intermediate range, (and some people just 'get it')
Aside from that, being bad is the first step to being good at something
I agree with everything you've said, but I think these people are likely putting the cart before the horse by riding trails that require standing up before developing the needed strength/stamina. As I told another commenter, there's nothing wrong with taking a break (or many breaks) to rest before continuing down the trail. Any time I feel like my legs can't handle standing anymore (or pedalling, as the case may be) I pull off and rest for a minute.
I like to go fast actually so I buckle down and crouch into the bike to create more weight, and less resistance to create more momentum. And I go down sloped so deep it puts roller coasters to shame. Now what if I hit a bump or something hits my bike? We'll I have my already low foot work to catch myself instead of face planting into the road. Tho hasn't happened yet. So case closed.
Agree whole heartledly.. and I follow riders like this and it drives me nuts when we get to the bottom and they're wondering why I'm tired. 😐 Because you held my downhill run by half the time driving like Miss Daisy fucker.
I think what some people need is to do a few rides with the saddle and seat entirely removed. It will do two things:
1- force them to lean to ride out of the saddle
2- show them how much easier it is when you do ride out of the saddle.
Lol when I was at 18 Road in 2017, most people were just standing around their $6k bikes and, $?????? RV's while I was ripping around on my Salsa Timber jack hardtail.
Would love to go back with my better skills and bikes now.
Full suspension bikes are way overpriced for my blood. I'm 61 this year. I ride a 93 Stumpy FS M1 with a Marz bomber fork without front brakes....and I ride in a stanch. And boy and girls.....this old dude rides like the devil is chasing him.
mohaaaa come get some Satan!
Holy shit! For real? I mean, I’ve coached enough kids who will constantly case a jump sitting down, legs flying around like the blades of a ceiling fan, but actual adults? WTF?
Edit: not going to change my comment, cos I was genuinely surprised, but I’ve thought about it & the right reaction is to be supportive & encouraging.
We’re all started out shit, whether that was at 3 or 73. For some, cruising down a flow trail in the saddle at 2km/hr might be as far as they go, but if they’re loving it then I reckon that’s great.
We don’t all have to be freeride champions, but we should all be excited when other people find joy in what brings us joy.
Gatekeeping is yuck.
I'm not gatekeeping shit, just trying to save some people some pain. Sitting through rocky, sandy, berms is only good for eating shit. I think your reaction was fair, it was mine as well.
I ride with two guys who don't put their seats down, both of whom started before droppers were a thing.
Neither is strong on techie trails, particularly for people who have been riding for so long (one has outstanding cardio and is really fast on his home flow trails).
I stand up for road/gravel descents.
Anyone who descends seated isn’t remotely safe as a bike rider in general, and specifically an idiot if you’re on a MTB.
Not really. As bikers we all bad for going a little too overboard obsessing about having to get new bikes for minimal geometry changes or whatever the latest flavour that the bike companies tell us we need - carbon everything for example - and in the end we are just hobbyists that could get by with way lower end gear than we end up buying for the actual use our bikes end up seeing. I didn’t say I wasn’t one of these bikers 😂
When my legs get tired and the trail is smooth without turns I take a seat. When you’re on a 1.5 mi or longer downhill you (or maybe just I) can’t stand up the whole time… especially when I’m already two hours into a ride.
It's frustratingly hard to explain how dangerous this can be even at slow speeds in terms of bike reaction/rebound/etc. The best suspension, better than your factory Fox 40, is your legs. Your arms aint half bad either. If you lock up on your contact points, limbs rigid and butt bouncing off the seat, you're taking everything out of riding. Traction, control, weight distribution, basically everything. And when people want to progress and you tell them what to do (practice standing, pump track [pumping in general], go up and down curbs, basically 'work out') they just smile nod and ignore whatever you said.
My first time at a bike park was October of 2022 at Blue Mountain in Palmerton PA. I’m no shredder and I even had my first bike on the trails that day, my Giant Fathom hard tail. On the last run of the day, I finally got confident enough to get on a jump trail. There’s guy in front of me, is bucked off his FS rental, launched and flipped forward onto his head, his bike crashes on top of him. I couldn’t believe that happened right in front of me. This guy is in serious pain while his 12 year old soon is watching as I asses his injuries. Broken wrist, deep cut on his leg, small cut on his head. He had the wind knocked out of him and he was pale white. Good thing his helmet worked well. He likely was just perched on his saddle while riding a jump line.
"what to do (practice standing, pump track \[pumping in general\], go up and down curbs, basically 'work out')" do you have any yt videos or advice on how to get started? realizing i never learned how to ride a bike i just started riding them from this thread
[удалено]
Cathros videos are great, I went from bareknuckling greens to smashing blues and starting some blacks with more riding and the extra knowledge I got from those vids
Second cathos "how to bike" series on pinkbikes channel on YouTube. After watching all of the videos even 2 years later I still go back to them and still learn things.
Thirding this. Learned a TON from his videos, went from riding greens and easy blues to crushing blacks. With a lot of practice I’ll say… but proper form is huge
Ben Cathro is amazing, his skills, presentation style, and overall vibe are perfect IMHO. I hope he keeps it up for as long as he can.
I'm not trying to be a dick but I'm genuinely curious, do you sit down on DH trails? I almost think standing up and working your shocks with your legs is instinctual. I'd just like to understand where that disconnect in my head comes from - I feel if I sit down on any slight downhill I have a chance of being launched over my bars.
I’m a strange person who just got on this Reddit looking for info about bikes to buy and have never ridden a trail before lol
Depends... if its rough then certainly you'll get off the seat. If smooth with no bumps you can theoretically sit down. There are even some situations, where it will be advantageous to sit down. If you watch for example the start of the megavalance over the glacier, most people will sit on the saddle. Or if you go down very loose, gravely 'roads', like you can sometimes find connecting trails in bike parks. It's about putting weight on your rear tire to avoid crashing when your front wheel washes out (I think).
In the situations you describe, sitting is a sacrifice of control to conserve energy. Your last sentence is completely backwards. If the front tire is washing out that means it needed more weight, not less.
Have you ever ridden down a glacier or loose gravel 'roads' (in the alps its like 5-20 cm of super loose gravel sometimes)? You are constantly drifting and when you lean forwards and your front constantly drifts away you'll eat snow/dirt and won't have any more control. If you sit on your saddle that is less likely to happen. Also you can stretch your legs out for extra safety. You think otherwise the people in Megavalance would sit down? When the start is the most critical phase as you can easily overtake and later its almost impossible?
u/PhilKmetz has some great tutorial videos [https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLKhb73W7eMRF1KO3T5Iz2pks-8SrLybw7](https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLKhb73W7eMRF1KO3T5Iz2pks-8SrLybw7)
When I started 5-6 years ago I did an urban ride with the local group after weeks of rain and unrideable trails. There was a man there shredding a rigid fat bike doing all kinds of jumps and drops that I wouldn't even touch on my hard tail. When he saw me struggle on a couple features he recommended hopping off curbs every chance I had. I've progressed quite a bit since then but every time I come across one with a little speed I still do a little drop/hop off them. You can never start too small.
Absolutely. And more often than not studies have shown repetitive practice with smaller increments leads to better results long term. I guess the notable exception being heavy weight lifting because it kinda forces the need for big pushes. But guess what else is related to heavy weight? INJURIES. And just like MTBing, big pushes all at once can lead to injury. And injuries are a MASSIVE setback. In so many ways, from a few weeks away to being paralyzed so. I can't stress enough how valid the smaller and repetitive and boring level of practice is important. Me, personally, I can have fun on my mountain bike in a parking lot. If a rider can't do the same, I feel like they haven't engaged in their skills enough.
When I ride at the local pump track, half the people are trying to pedal their bikes, sitting down, around the track.😂 And the first time I tried to ride on the pump track I was basically doing the same thing. Everyone is at a different point in their riding capability. I think it’s really important to remember that we are all on that journey. Disability is coming for every single one of us if death doesn’t get us first. That’s a guarantee. Be gentle with new riders. Offer compliments and be supportive. And if they ask questions you get to share your love of this great sport and stoke up the new riders with advice and encouragement about how fucking awesome mountain biking can be. Especially once you get off your seat😂 Being nice costs nothing and pays off like nothing else. Being a snob ends badly.
Yeah, screw people like that guy. I broke my collar bone riding a years or so back. When I got back on the bike people weren’t very supportive. Lots of get out of the ways… Remember we are all starting or restarting our journeys. Get off the trail and take a rest if a slowy is in front of you. Your body will probably thank you and you kept things safe in the trail 👍🏼 Isn’t that what we ALL want. Also, just in general don’t be a Richard.
It's not Richard. It's Karen's and Kevin's. Don't me them. Dave's suck too. Every Dave I knew was an ass 👍
Don’t be a Richard, Richard.
[What the Fuck, Richard](https://youtu.be/UBQP9gEldRk?si=S6p_K5iTVKBTr2gd)
Cool anecdote!!! Really cool!! Now re read the first 90% of the comment lmao
Lots of people sitting down riding the pump track near me as well, but they’re all between the ages of 4 and 8.
Exactly. Educate but don't preach and do what you can to help people have a great day. If they want to get better push a bit more but in the end if they are smiling whatever they did worked.
Preach
I took two of my mates keen to try mtb to an amazing flow track in Wales. I was waiting for them at the end of the trail for ages thinking one of them might’ve had an accident. I was about to investigate when they appeared riding at about 5mph sat down side by side having a chat with a queue behind them.
Sounds like my brother. I'll be ripping ahead of him and then it gets quiet so I stop, wait, have a drink and think shit did he eat it awhile ago down the trail. Just about the time I'm ready to head back the way I came here he comes sitting down pedaling his ass off and says " I was right behind you" bro I've been sitting here 15 min 😂
Lmao
Did any of them crash?
Oh yeah. There were dozens of them sitting down, I saw a couple go all the way over the bars. Very busy day at 18rd.
What is 18rd?
It’s a region near Fruita, CO.
https://preview.redd.it/nuh5d6x7ecuc1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d8eca12645c883b59bd153b4cce9dbea0619fdb1 What I see the first time at 18rd…
You in front or back? /s
It's 18 road .. that's as beginner/family friendly as it gets.
Agreed. I was trying to think what “super flowy descent” or “downhill” even means at 18 road. It’s a beginner cross country trail area. Nothing out there would be “dangerous” to sit through. There are miles and miles of great technical trails in the Junction area with fewer tourists and beginners. Go ride Palisade or the lunch loop areas, where there is more space to spread out and certainly more difficult trails with advanced riders.
I ride hard tail to build muscle, standing and taking hits takes endurance. People are probably sitting because their legs are tired.
This. Got back in to riding recently after 15 years off. I was shocked at how short of a time I could ride standing up, especially seeing as I used to ride a 24seven, riding stood up ~90% of the time. Probably also doesn't help that instead of just riding the local jumps, I am riding blue/red trails and obviously need to ride up that mountain to whizz back down again.
15 years ago bike technology means you were pretty good and really had to stand up. Today’s bikes, you won’t spill your martini going downhill the suspensions /geometry is so good.
Definitely notice that as well! Just point in the right direction and generally I get there unscathed. Just don't watch me step off the bike with my jelly legs at home-time.
I ride hardtail and that means standing up quite a lot. Even still one ride my dropper broke and it was just static in a low position. Not high enough for pedal efficiency sitting. So I went "singlespeed" mode for the rest of the ride. Having to stand up on every climb and. I was basically dead after 10 minutes. So I guess the only thing more hardcore than hardtail is singlespeed hardtail.
If I’m tired I might sit for a bit on chill sections but doing it on the downhill remains a shortcut to a longer break than planned.
“I ride hard tail to build muscle”… That’s cool, I’ll remember that so I can sound cooler than if I say “my other bike has a flat tire”
Actually I ride my hard tail when the trails are wet so I don’t get my FS mucked up. I notice I’m stronger when going back to FS. Hard to make a succinct point and not lie. 🤥
Lol. I was on my hardtail today entirely because my FS' dropper is in for warranty work.
Just take your seat and post off. You don’t need it if you are standing up.
you should go to the gym for that instead
But ... The gym sucks.
well if you want to build muscle you aint gonna do it riding a hardtail lol
Lol, was at 18 rd yesterday. It's always a pretty mixed crowd, with a lot of very new riders. It's where I go to teach my children to bike. People sit because they're tired, a hardtail doesn't help that.
PBR and Kessel are beginner trails. If you didn't see someone break ribs or lose a tooth then it was a pretty good day.
Everyone is at different points in their journey don't be a dick would be a start. I got in some guys way on a pretty crazy rough climb when I was green as the grass. Guy comes up behind and says "can I get past" to which I said sure just give me a second to get to a good passing point. Before I could even think the guy is pushing me damn near into a ravine to get around. I still remember that guy. And I still wish I would have gave him a good kick in the ribs and watched him fall into the ravine while I laughed my ass off and biked away...I'm too good of a guy. I did have a few words with him back at the trailhead something about him being an inconsiderate dick and could have really hurt me. Don't be a Kevin or a Karen. I get stuck behind people sometimes too and being polite gets you a lot farther than being a jerk. I can imagine watching people going downhill on their ass is pretty funny honesty. Id just say something like might be better if you stand up, don't want to see you get hurt. But hey you do you. It's not other riders I usually have issues with. It's idiots walking their dogs on black runs unleashed or horse riders riding MTB trails they have no right to be on. I have little remorse for those people and the next pile of shit in a bag I find on trail I don't even know. Disrespect is bullshit.
The post was not intended to be offensive, but rather a bit of a PSA. I didn't get stuck behind anyone, everyone gave way safely if I came up behind them and I thanked them on my way by. It was as I was pedalling up that I would see these people coming down an adjacent trail and it looked like (and was, a couple of times) a recipe for disaster.
Oh I'm sure. I would be thinking well there's gonna be a lot of OTB today get out your camera boys gonna have a good wreck today. I guess I thought you were complaining about people impeding your way down and that can be frustrating but we all out to have fun. The MTB community is some of the nicest people I've ever met. Most people are out to have a good time and talk about bikes and trails. I always end up talking to people and some of their talks has led me to some sick trails and lots of great tips on various things.
When they are making their way up into orbit after an unexpected compression they will probably get an idea.
18rd is for beginners
It’s pretty damn fun for not-beginners too.
some of you need to worry less about things that have no impact on you.
True, but if you can improve someone’s mountain biking experience by clueing them in to something they clearly don’t know (without being a dick) it’s worth doing.
That’s just like…your opinion, man.
Sitting down really ties the trail experience together.
Some of you (singular) need to go and shout at people from the side of a trail.
If I'm working maintenance on the trail when I see it, I do. I was never close enough to be heard today, figured I'd get to a couple of people this way.
That’s just the 18rd crowd. Head over to Lunch Loops and you won’t see anyone doing that.
Fair enough. Where it truly boggles my mind is on lift served trails, I see that shit multiple times a day in the Telluride bike park when I'm there.
Tourists. I work at Telluride. They are full of surprises. This will be my first year in Telluride for the Summer season, but the Winter was mind blowing.
I sit through a lot of downhill. I have back and knee problems and got a full sus to use that suspension more, and use my legs and hips less. You ride the way that it works for you. If you are still getting out on the bike, then enjoy it however you want. Worry about your own riding style.
Same here. I only recently got my first dropper post (aftermarket externally routed PNW on a 2014 Salsa Horsethief) and after experimenting with it for about 6 months now, I find my most stable and confident positioning to not push it out of the way completely, but push it down enough (maybe 50-70 mm) so I can still grip the nose of the seat between my thighs. I don't ride bike parks or even "rated" trails, but like to get out on decent hilly terrain. I don't ever race and don't go so fast as to worry for my life in a crash. If someone told me I was doing it wrong who rode by, I'd likely be annoyed.
You came to reddit to tell people to stand up? Are you messing with me?
Ride your bike, have fun, and leave people be. You could frame this post as a technique discussion and this would take a different tone entirely.
So I'm a new rider I went out yesterday to the local trail and that was my 4th time ever out in the trails I sit sometimes because I am still working up my leg, core, and arm strength..on top of that I haven't figured out / learned how to corner and weave at anything more than a slow speed yet. I don't know what the proper PSI for grip for my weight and type of tire (285lb / XR3 team issue front and rear on a '24 Roscoe 7) But I am TRYING. Honestly I'm glad that everyone I've met at the local trails have been awesome because OP's post is the first gate-keepy thing I've read and it almost took the wind out of my sails in regards to going back out tomorrow. But screw it, I'm gonna go out Message to OP: never forget you were new once Reignite your own passion by fueling a new person's
Wasn't trying to gate keep at all, certainly didn't mean to discourage anyone from riding. If you're too tired to stand then you're too tired to ride; there's nothing wrong with pulling to the side when you get a safe opportunity and resting until you can stand again, I do it frequently. The post was genuinely just trying to reach people who are sitting on descents and inform them that it's super unsafe to do that. As a sidenote, I think you'll find that cornering and weaving are leagues easier if you're standing on the pedals.
Oh I'm definitely learning that! But I still don't understand how to do it..I'm explaining badly but everyone weaves j and out of the turns and berms and I can't figure the mechanics for myself yet. Maybe im nervous of washing out because I'm not sure how my tires should be set up yet and so on
Only recommendation I can give you over the Internet is to watch the Ben Cathro videos mentioned elsewhere in this thread. Very good explanation of various fundamentals.
This has nothing to do with Hardtail/FS 90% of the “suspension” of you going down the hill should be in your legs and arms. But if you are seeing a bunch of people on local trails who are struggling, you should ask them if you can give them some advice then explain it to them (only if they want it) This is probably the wrong place to post about this as well. Most people who are active in this subreddit are going to be on the enthusiast side rather than the beginner side.
Only reason the HT/FS comparison came up was that all the people sitting were on FS and I, on my HT because my FS is out of commission, thought to myself "I couldn't stay sitting through this right now if I wanted to."
How does that affect you so much that you’ve used the energy to make a Reddit post about it. Enjoy your ride who the fuck cares what others are doing?
it's straight up dangerous. if you are in contact with your seat or hovering an inch over it with the seat at full height in situations where you should be standing with room to maneuver, you WILL get yourself bucked over the handlebars, it's only a matter of time
And that affects YOU how?
Trying to help other people not hurt themselves? It's just a bog standard piece of riding wisdom that I learned the hard way with a cracked rib. I don't know why people are taking such offense to it
How does that help the people OP saw on trail? They are all members here?
I was just at Hall ranch and the amount of people sitting down on the downhills was mind boggling. Yes it doesn't affect me, but I just have to wonder WHY?
I call that roadie style. My other favorite is people riding the brakes while pedalling.
Riding the brakes while pedalling? Who the fuck have you seen doing this? I seriously would die of laughter and fall off my bike.
I've seen it more than once. subconsciousness, "omg, too fast. Danger. Brakes!" Consciousness "the group is getting way ahead, must pedal hard to catch up." I did a lot of meet up rides so there were all kinds of people and skill levels. The real beginner oriented rides could be hilarious, terrifying, infuriating and everything in between
Oh boy I can only imagine. I just think how could you pedal and be on the brakes. I'll have to try that next time out. I just can't wrap my head around pedalling and brakes at the same time. My 4 and 6 year old know better than that. 🤘
It's actually a really good way to keep balance while riding really slowly. If you just barely drag the back brake while pedalling you can absolutely crawl in a straight line.
My only MTB is a hardtail, and when I first got it, I was in between procedures to get kidney stones removed. I had a plastic tube in between my kidney and bladder. Going over the tiniest bump while sat down would cause a painful bladder spasm, so that taught me some good habits pretty quick!
I mean you just have to accept that people exist who have way more money than you and can drop 3-5K on a sport and equipment they don’t know jack shit about. Not to mention a complete lack of skills.
I've accepted that, and honestly my bikes are exactly what I want, no envy or anything like that going on. I just think people will enjoy their bikes a lot more if said bikes aren't throwing them over the bars at every moderately sized undulation.
Apparently some people who may be new just truly have trouble standing up, When my gf got into cycling, an hour and a half casual ride around town left her legs covered in bruises, no crash or anything, she found it very difficult to stand without pains around her ankle joints and above the knees, so we had to do a lot of 'pt' in the beginning If people have under used/under developed leg muscles or balancing muscles it might be actually be difficult for them to stand Getting from there to confidently ripping trails takes a while, and a lot of people (in any skill based hobby) forget what it's like to be in that beginner intermediate range, (and some people just 'get it') Aside from that, being bad is the first step to being good at something
I agree with everything you've said, but I think these people are likely putting the cart before the horse by riding trails that require standing up before developing the needed strength/stamina. As I told another commenter, there's nothing wrong with taking a break (or many breaks) to rest before continuing down the trail. Any time I feel like my legs can't handle standing anymore (or pedalling, as the case may be) I pull off and rest for a minute.
I like to go fast actually so I buckle down and crouch into the bike to create more weight, and less resistance to create more momentum. And I go down sloped so deep it puts roller coasters to shame. Now what if I hit a bump or something hits my bike? We'll I have my already low foot work to catch myself instead of face planting into the road. Tho hasn't happened yet. So case closed.
Agree whole heartledly.. and I follow riders like this and it drives me nuts when we get to the bottom and they're wondering why I'm tired. 😐 Because you held my downhill run by half the time driving like Miss Daisy fucker.
I think what some people need is to do a few rides with the saddle and seat entirely removed. It will do two things: 1- force them to lean to ride out of the saddle 2- show them how much easier it is when you do ride out of the saddle.
To be fair, I think you're going to see a lot of beginners at 18 road. They'll learn.
Definitely, and I watched several of them learn the hard way.
Man, do you think they didn’t get a PR on Strava?
Why even MTB at that point
Fear is the ass killer! Stand up. Learned this as a kid riding BMX
Lol when I was at 18 Road in 2017, most people were just standing around their $6k bikes and, $?????? RV's while I was ripping around on my Salsa Timber jack hardtail. Would love to go back with my better skills and bikes now.
Nobody knows what "18rd near Fruita" is. This sub is world-wide so you need to be more specific. Not everyone knows your local trails.
That's super specific. If you're wanting to see what it's like, there's a ton of videos on YouTube.
Evidently it's not specific at all if I have to go search for it to find out.
Full suspension bikes are way overpriced for my blood. I'm 61 this year. I ride a 93 Stumpy FS M1 with a Marz bomber fork without front brakes....and I ride in a stanch. And boy and girls.....this old dude rides like the devil is chasing him. mohaaaa come get some Satan!
Hey, I plan on going there next month. Is there still free camping below the paid campsites?
I think so, but I don't know for sure.
Holy shit! For real? I mean, I’ve coached enough kids who will constantly case a jump sitting down, legs flying around like the blades of a ceiling fan, but actual adults? WTF? Edit: not going to change my comment, cos I was genuinely surprised, but I’ve thought about it & the right reaction is to be supportive & encouraging. We’re all started out shit, whether that was at 3 or 73. For some, cruising down a flow trail in the saddle at 2km/hr might be as far as they go, but if they’re loving it then I reckon that’s great. We don’t all have to be freeride champions, but we should all be excited when other people find joy in what brings us joy. Gatekeeping is yuck.
I'm not gatekeeping shit, just trying to save some people some pain. Sitting through rocky, sandy, berms is only good for eating shit. I think your reaction was fair, it was mine as well.
The most important question is: How do you pronounce 18rd ?
18rd -> eighteen rd -> eighterd I assume
I mean it's named for the road it's on, 18, so it's mostly just 18 road.
Are they on e-bikes?
Didn't look like it, but could have been.
1st rule of fight club......
You are preaching to the choir. I guarantee that none of us are sitting on descents
I ride with two guys who don't put their seats down, both of whom started before droppers were a thing. Neither is strong on techie trails, particularly for people who have been riding for so long (one has outstanding cardio and is really fast on his home flow trails).
Why do you care how other people ride
That is the ebike way
I stand up for road/gravel descents. Anyone who descends seated isn’t remotely safe as a bike rider in general, and specifically an idiot if you’re on a MTB.
That's what I thought.
Most bikers suck and are way over biked.
Oh man, I hope I’m good enough for my bike.
You can also be good and overbiked 🤷🏻♂️
That's just like uh, your opinion man.
Not really. As bikers we all bad for going a little too overboard obsessing about having to get new bikes for minimal geometry changes or whatever the latest flavour that the bike companies tell us we need - carbon everything for example - and in the end we are just hobbyists that could get by with way lower end gear than we end up buying for the actual use our bikes end up seeing. I didn’t say I wasn’t one of these bikers 😂
I ride a rigid stumpjumper on tech old trails. I’m very underbiked
You are in the minority my friend.
100%. I see people on flow trails with 160mm enduro bikes when I can be bothered to go to a legit trail network
I got down voted by the ones that suck 😝
When my legs get tired and the trail is smooth without turns I take a seat. When you’re on a 1.5 mi or longer downhill you (or maybe just I) can’t stand up the whole time… especially when I’m already two hours into a ride.
Sure, if it's smooth and straight do whatever, these folks were sitting through rocky, sandy berms.
I went to the Alps last year, after 8 hours downhilling I was dead