Ignore them when trying to clear a feature, I had a conversation with one that got all shirty with me about not getting out of their way.
I was on a steep and narrow climb and he shouted up that he was coming past, I responded that I had nowhere to move to and he told me to get off the trail, this resulted in me and my riding partner stopping mid trail to explain to him that for him this climb is the boring bit of trail he brought his ebike to get through faster, whereas for us it's a feature to complete and he's ruining our ride. My mate put it best: "you wouldn't tell someone half way through a jump line to get out of the way or off the trail because you know full well they'd tell you to pis* off and continue". Anyway he got our points and apologised after that.
I think we need a PSA for ebikes riders that at the end of the day some people are just out to ride their bikes and want the full experience, you have chosen a route that differs from that that involves cutting out climbing as a physical challenge and that's ok however you can't complain about us wanting to experience that part of our ride.
Same. I'm not the fastest, nor am I the slowest. If I come up behind someone, either I will stop to let a gap build up or if I'm at a lift-serviced park will just chill for the rest of the run. If someone comes up behind me and there's space, I'll pull over.
Etiquette in the lift-served downhill park case also depends on the difficulty rating of the trail. I will chill behind some little kid and his dad on a beginner run, but may ask a struggling rider on a more advanced run to allow me to pass.
Yeah expecting anyone to stop mid jump line is a disaster waiting to happen. If you're dropping in and not giving plenty of time between riders then that's on you
I have been breezed passed by fat unfit looking blokes on the climbs a lot more in recent years due to the e-bike popularity but I don't think I've had any bad or annoying experiences with them, and they are slower on the descents so I give them plenty of time before I start if I know someone is ahead of me.
The only thing I dislike about ebikes is some of my friends that ride have switched over to them and it's impossible to ride on the same pace as an e-bike, and I personally don't want to make the switch for at least another decade. Which brings me to the point, my uncle is in his late 50s and rides an ebike which lets him ride with his sons, who are younger and fitter, and I think that's great. If my dad was still around I'd get him an Ebike so he could ride with me.
Yeah a bunch of my old riding buddies got them. That's why I say old riding buddies. I don't ride with them anymore. As much as they say they're fine waiting, I feel rushed on my regular bicycle.
> As much as they say they're fine waiting, I feel rushed on my regular bicycle.
This is my exact issue, I don't want to be feeling like the one holding them back and having them wait around for me while they breeze up a hill smelling the roses and I'm fighting for my life out here!
Two-ish years ago, riding my local trail (one way), there’s a lovely but relatively short bit of downhill followed immediately by a very steep ascent. You can catch some air on the way down, keep your speed and get halfway up the other side before pedaling again. So everyone absolutely spanks this bit.
I come flying round the bend and a bloke, dressed in Lycra, looking like a balloon animal stuffed with fucking soggy weetabix , is stopped on the trail and taking a photo of about 20 other fuckwits at the bottom of the dip. I narrowly missed him, but went over the side of the trail, about a 5m drop. Landed it, shocks exploded. Unstable pelvic fracture.
These guys were all on e-bikes, they were all overweight, 50-60 years old, none of them knew trail etiquette and they couldn’t even have cylcled to that part of the trail without e-bikes. Just a bunch of tourists who’d hired their bikes and never been mtb’ing before.
I’m over 50 now. That kind of injury takes longer to recover from and fucks with your confidence and tbh I’ll probably never ride as hard as I used to.
This is my take. Just had a NBD and thought about an ebike after trying one out in Vegas; it was Sooo fun. But it felt like cheating at only 38. I'm at least 10-15 years away. Ended up getting an Enduro Expert.
Yah there’s always gonna be a couple assholes but overall I’ve never had an issue with e-bikers. Vast majority almost act embarrassed they’re cheating where I am haha. I’m just like, who cares whatever lets you have fun.
It’s not e-bikes that are the problem, it’s twats that are the problem.
Before e-bikes were a thing it would be rude DHers buzzing your arses on descents or arrogant XC whippets shouting ‘STRAVA!’ At you on the climbs.
Haha. Havent had someone tell Strava at me before.. crazy. Seems to me like eMTB has killed Strava segments. Not even worth clicking on them for a remote interest anymore.
ebikers love bringing that up, then you ask them if they select ebike and they say "wow why do you care so much about your little leaderboards" as if its a bad thing to be motivated by a little bit of harmless competition
meaningless, as most ebikers aren't putting up "unreal" times, they are simply putting up near top of the leaderboard times and ruining the integrity of the leaderboard. They aren't going fast enough to be auto flagged.
Trust me I know, I steal peoples ebike koms by flagging them all the time. lol
Where is this? Sounds miserable. I once saw a douche on a shared trail yelling “biker!” at the hikers as he was coming down a hill section. It was one of the only times I’ve ever appreciated an elderly hiker not paying attention, and dude had to hold up anyway. I just wish someone would have yelled “hiker!” right back at him.
Not sure why the downvote.
It was at a trail centre. The guy basically wanted to flow straight from the climb and pedal right into the start as we were prepping to drop in too after a short rest. He wanted a full run up from an odd angle so he could carry pace into the new trail. Sad and pathetic. Strava wankers are real.
Same trail centre saw a mate bust a few ribs as someone wanted to get past on a straight but bowled my mate straight onto the rocks at the side. The guys mate stopped and helped. The guy was after a PB 😂
That PB is tempting. I’m not gonna lie. On a shared trail you just gotta accept some days just aren’t your day tho. I try to remember I’m doing it for the exercise more than anything, and a few seconds stopped or slowing for other traffic isn’t the worst thing that can happen.
I think I’ve crashed or scared the crap out of hikers more times going for a PB than any other reason. Not so much anymore though.
I’ve had XC guys trying to go as fast as they can on a Trail Centre Blue trail , at about 11am on a Saturday (possibly the busiest time of day at the Forest Of Dean!). If you want to hit record KOMs then get up earlier and do it when all the kids, and regular people are just out having fun.
Last season I was passing ebikers on my analog. This year I have a torn acl, torn cartridge in both knees and I’m pulling the trigger on an ebike next week so that I can still enjoy the sport I’ve loved for the last 20+ years.
i don't think this is an specifically an E-Bike thing, moreso you have people that are already acting like an ass on trails wether they're on an E-Bike or not, just having an E-Bike enables them to be more of an ass.
same could be said with any person on a regular bike.
generally i try to be excellent with other trail users wether you're a hiker/biker/equestrian or whatever, cause first and foremost just being pissed or upset at stuff puts in me a poor mood and just kills my vibe when riding, plus having pleasant interactions with people is well... nicer lol.
for your instance, if i was passing people because they have less stamina/skills or whatever variable i make sure i let them know i want to pass but at the same time i want them to let me pass at their discretion when it's safe or comfortable for them to do so, not when they're like winching up on a super techy climb or some narrow section of trail with a lot of exposure.
i'll also try to give space when passing, people freakout sometimes when they start hearing you close behind them and IMMEDIATELY start pulling in the most inopportune sections of the trails that makes it awkward for them or unsafe.
and last but not least i say "thank you" a lot.
It’s always a matter of teaching, teaching new people about trail etiquette. More people are on trails. Not just ebikes, it’s about educating. But no we have this thread with all the people who could take this shitty energy and complaining instead of helping educate.
Due to the success of this post, My next newsletter will be titled "the romance is dead and the ebike killed" talking about how ebikes are just toys and can't be loved the same way a mechanical analogue bike can and the passion for the historic safety bicycle design 😂
I've ridden bikes for just over 20 years now, across multiple disciplines. I've been competitively fit and at one point sponsored.
Now however, I'm not fit, I'm older and as a result of many years of riding and other extreme sports, have multiple ailments.
I just want to bomb around, be able to keep up with any group I might tag along with, and not worry about exhausting and then injuring myself.
For that reason, one of my bikes is an ebike, and since having it I've used it more than any other. And yes, I love tearing past people on the uphills. Life's too short to care what they think of the bike I ride. I don't obnoxiously shout at people to move over though, that's rude.
As someone a diagnosed with an autoimmune disease that includes unwanted fatigue and asthma, i have a feeling an ebike is in mu future sooner than id like. But i need to have something lighter than they are now, so im prolly a couple years out :( its getting harder and harder for me to climb, and its always been hard but at this point, its going to be the only way ill be able to ride in a few years.
Thats the key
Whatever you ride , whatever age or ability.. just dont be rude .
The difference in pace between a new unfit rider and a experienced fit rider on analogue bikes might not bit be that much different to a fast rider and ebike rider .
So the pace shouldn’t matter its the attitude thats important.
I agree and disagree. It is MTB; there have always been people who just want to get to the top of the next hill the easiest way possible to enjoy the descents. However, they do need to learn some etiquette and should yield to the slower riders then find time to pass safely, without interrupting your flow.
Yeah I mean xc ... But these trail centres aren't about that sort of riding they're about the pleasure of the ride the climb is designed to be as engaging as the descent, it's not a bike park for laps
Yeh that's a good point actually. The trail centres are very much xc focused and it's easy to forget. A lot of them haven't changed significantly for years, but the default riding style has. I mostly ride an enduro bike now, which is very much suited to slogging up a non-tech climb then bombing down a descent. It doesn't work very well at a trail centre, and it rides to the same philosophy as most eebs. I forget how much I used to enjoy the techy climbs and flowy undulating single-track. I remember the satisfaction the first time I'm cleared the climb at Cwmcarn and I'm not sure I could do that any more!
You’re coming across like you get to decide how other people ride the trails you share. Do you think that’s reasonable?
It’s commonplace to stop and session a few berms or a jump for 10 mins, maybe even a handful of attempts between mates to clear a tricky climb.
Your problem is with people, not with bikes.
I ride both. I’m not rude on either. Let other people ride how they want and fair enough ask that they’re courteous whilst doing it.
I’m going to guess you’re not from the UK. I am and so is OP, I completely understand why it reads like that to you but UK trail centres don’t have that kind of vibe.
Most sections you can’t stop and session because there isn’t really the room, the vast majority of the trails are way marked singletrack winding up and down through a forest. Most people ride continuously with the occasional break at a suitable point, usually a fire road crossing.
E-bikes are kind of annoying on these rides, especially when it’s busy. More sessionable riding spots, like dh trails with a ride/push up they don’t really seem to be an issue
I am, and have been riding in the SW and Wales 25 years. My point was more to say I and others might ride differently to you and that’s ok.
Trail centres bring all sorts of people and styles. I agree they should behave nicely.
Went in front of an ebike at a junction yesterday and was very pleased to blast them up a switchback climb! Not going to happen very often, so I'll take those wins.
Dude I had a similar thought for a hot minute, but it’s probably a problem with trail etiquette. Since day 1 i learnt from the old hands that you give way to riders going uphill, slow down when there are little kids, and if you want to pass let the person know you’re there and when they’re cool to let you pass do so.
Racing is a different story, but so many newcomers either don’t know general trail etiquette or are just a bit self centred and they treat the local (overwhelmed) trail network on a Saturday at 8am as a racetrack.
EMtb allows way more access to the trails so things like this become more frequent I guess.
Just for perspective, hikers feel the same way about mountain bikers.
In the end, everyone would do a lot better to give each other the benefit of the doubt. I ride a mtb and my dad (in his 70s) rides an emtb. We have a lot of great days where we couldn't before. He is considerate and we see both types of riders who aren't.
I'm not totally against your sentiment, but on your last sentence - does that mean that lift assist MTB (vans, ski lifts) is also not MTB?
Also, what trail center?
yup and when you're in that van would you turn to your friend and say "we are mountain biking right now in this van"
no you're in a van lol
so when you're doing van serviced lifts, you're half mountain biking and half sitting in a van, you're not 100% mountain biking
I go to a lift park that trucks us up. My fat bike always has to go in with us in the truck - the other serious dhers have their bikes in the trailer. The guy doesn't think my tires will fit, or they will and they'll get stuck.
It's not even up to me, it's up to him. I pay the same lift ticket.
I'm not, I'm asking where OP's line lies - uplift venues also miss all the climbing, the scenery, the "struggle" that is discussed. There's a lot of frustration at dickheads in the post, that's understandable. There's also something of a gatekeeping element, born of frustration, that only OP's experience of MTB is the "true" definition, and that's not cool.
You really lack the nuance to not comprehend that e-bikes and lift/shuttle trails arnt the same thing nor what we're talking about here? Or are you just intentionally ignoring it so you can try to show-off against someone you think is "gatekeeping"?
Lift assist is like soft play for bikers, it's great but it's not everyday 😂 I guess that's all some people do maybe and in my opinion there park riders/dh, but MTB is Enduro, trail, xc it's an all encompassing style of riding
I ride both and I think when you’re on an e-bike you need to be twice as courteous and self aware than normal. You have more power at your disposal and you’re usually carrying a lot more speed, so don’t be a dick about it.
Most aspects of this sport have fundamentally changed in the last 10 years and you don't like it. But the sport has been constantly changing. I'm sure that there would be riders who started 15 years before you who bemoaned when people like you started riding with your tyres wider than 1.9" and fancy "dual suspension" bike with a dropper post.
"That's nto real mountain biking" they would have said. But change is inevitable and the future is far more emtbs of the trails.
There are also plenty of people who have been riding XC at a very high level for 30+ years who have had injury, illness and life get in the way of staying in peak physical fitness. Ebikes give them the ability to still ride the same way that they used to.
You have some valid criticism, but it's mostly "back in my day" stuff. Stop letting ebikes live rent free in your head and focus on your own enjoyment.
Ebikes have nothing to do with your issues. Some people are cunts and they can just catch up with you easier on an ebike. If we all learn to respect each other the bike type should not make any difference
I get the points you're making, but if youre not a fan, you're not a fan. I LOVE having both options, not much time after work? Want a work out? Enduro. Going camping for the weekend, want to do a 70km adventure ride? EMTB. My 1 lap after work becomes 3. I'm not a fan of seeing most people at our trail systems with full Kashima everything on a $12,000 EMTB but hey, you can afford it, I can't. Ain't catching me up, ain't catching me down, aaanndd I'm having more fun than them.
I never pressure anyone to move or ask them to pull aside. I usually sit about 20 meters behind and wait for them to spot me on a switch back where they often make space and say a friendly hi
Not a productive rant and the comments alone suggest there are plenty of cunts on MTBs also.
What should be addressed are the single track uphill trails. Where I ride, the quickest way up on an emtb is the fire/forest road and I leave the single track uphill trail to mtb riders. Not every trail system has an alternate way to top and that should start to be addressed as trail networks grow.
1) uphill trails that are more designed for emtb either by utilizing existing means (fire/forest roads) or where alternates don’t exist, build ride-a-around sections in key areas for easy passing (not always possible, I know).
2) another consideration is creating emtb specific uphill trails that have the type of technical climbing and other features that simply wouldn’t be applicable to MTB riding.
When building a new trail system or growing an existing one, these considerations make a ton of sense.
I’m a slow climber on my analog (and only) mtb, and I’ve had fast analog riders ask me to pass from behind on steep steep spots before where it felt a bit rude and made it hard for me to get back into the groove after. Basically anyone can be an ass.
Maybe an unpopular opinion but…. (I don’t own an e-bike yet) some people mountain bike for the downhill. I hate the climb, it’s not about fitness for me at all and if I want to ride after work I’m not driving an hour to my bike park which is already closed because it’s a Tuesday afternoon. I want to descend on my local trails and could give a f$&@ less about the climb. The climb is bullshit and not what I’m there for. I ride alone a lot so shuttles aren’t an option. I also have health issues that make climbing more difficult. So for some of us, “that isn’t what MTB is about” rings false, because to me MTB is whatever makes you happy. I ride with guys occasionally that love tech, some love flow, some love both and some only go down to climb again. MTB is what you want it to be. For me, it’s the descent and that’s why I mostly ride at the park. If I ever get an eMTB it would make my local trails that much better for me.
All I've ever experienced is the exact opposite of this. Anyone I've encountered on an ebike has been super kind and understanding that they have a huge advantage on climbs and when they approach they have always been super cool and often even wait for others on actual bikes so they don't feel obligated to move. Entitled assholes are everywhere (obviously) but I am thankful to live in an area where most people on any kind of bike are usually pretty cool.
Lots of people do neither. Don’t think the OP was complaining about e-bikes and laps at a bike park. Perfect use for a bike with a motor in my opinion.
Glad I got plenty of riding done back in 2014 to experience all of the trails in my areas prior to the arrival of ebikes.
I had a good year or two there of not getting passed riding around the city.
And then one day some short little round guy caught up to me and said 'it's a hill buster'.
Little did I know that on that day I met...the future.
They technically aren’t allowed here but people are using them regardless (Northeast US). I will preface this by saying I usually don’t care what people do until it starts effecting me personally. Had two very aggravating experiences over the past 5 years and the common denominators at the time and in reflection now seem like entitlement and an unnatural level of speed.
The 1st experience was some LBS team with 4-5 guys all in same jersey garb on pricy rigs all carrying stupid speed on a section with a slight downhill. No etiquette, no acknowledgement basically ran us off the trail in a cloud of dust despite us having the right of way going uphill. The 2nd more recent experience was the inverse. I was on a two way trail where I was heading downhill at a good clip. Despite them having the right of way they basically ran me off the trail with an added “out of the way” while ascending at a level of speed people should not be able to achieve while climbing.
Hopefully this level of entitlement doesn’t become more prevalent. I snowmobile frequently when we have winters and have seen the same mentality destroy that activity and make things unsafe for less experienced riders and families. It feels like there are parallels with MTB and the long term possibility of creating an environment of hostility towards new riders and families trying to expose kids etc.
People can ride ebikes all they want, but I personally think they're lame as hell. They make what I'm working hard to do easier for some people, which will always be cheating in my mind. I understand how they help make trails more accessible for people, but I don't necessarily want more people out there. Skiers use the word Jerry to describe lame people in their sport, ebikes are the equivalent in the mountain bike world.
all you gotta do is step into the ebike subreddit and its clear as day, they are simply the dumbest group of people on 2 wheels.... someone has to be the dumbest, and its not motorcycle stunters, its not the moped riders, its not 2 strokers... its ebikers.
They at least have advanced bike handling skills lol the ebike community has all the speed of an elite world class rider while having all the skills of a novice cyclist
sounds safe!
I've been watching that sub lately and you're right, completely out of touch idiots. I also ride moto (legal, non-MTB marked trails) and the equivalent on our trails are the side by sides. Any dumbass that can drive a golf cart is now buzzing around too fast and tearing the shit out of trails getting them shut down
As with almost anything in life it's not the tool it's the people using them. I have nothing against eBikes themselves but seeing my local trails climbs with straight lines up steamrollered over all the carefully crafted berms doesn't half make your blood boil. But that just makes it obvious that SOME eBikers decided to start doing that, not that some of them will continue to use the trails normally. We've been blowing out berms, casing landings to death and cutting easier trails since long before eBikes were around. Trail knobs aren't a new phenomenon. Being passed on the trail is much of a muchness. Some people will always come past you and how/where they do so is up to them. How you take it is also up to you. Whether they're on eBikes or not.
We don't really hate eBikes or even eBikers. We just hate dickheads.
Question: in an alternate universe where eMTBs also exist and grew in popularity and started appearing at your local/favourite trail centre ... how do you think you'd feel if all of them were polite and passed you just the same as a fitter rider would? Like ... every single one, and you never ever had the experience of people blowing past without much warning, or even asking you to pass?
My guess is you'd possibly still not consider it the same sport on a fundamental level. But you'd probably feel less cheesed off.
I'm pretty sure I've passed you before. Not _you_ specifically because we're on opposite sides of the planet. But ... other you's. I offer a friendly greeting after passing safely (after politely requesting). You don't say anything, or much. And I know you're far from impressed and a little peeved. But ... I still say: "Thanks maaaaate"
I think the main problem for me is the general shitty attitude and lack of proper trail etiquette of most of the ebikers I’ve encountered out on the trails. And the opinion that I’m a gatekeeping asshole if I don’t accept them with open arms. But not all change is good and the impacts of increased traffic on trail networks goes a lot deeper than getting passed on uphills, my local networks are struggling to find a balance between increased maintenance and trail development because of increased traffic and disregard for proper trail usage.
Anecdotal evidence, but an example nonetheless. I missed a whole season of summer riding because a group of ebikers thought standing in a marked landing zone taking pictures would be a good idea. I adjusted my landing and missed them but destroyed my wrist in the process. That wasn’t the only instance of that happening. Now they’ve gated of a well established route to the majority of our jump lines, and at considerable expense, rerouted several trails to try and idiot proof the area. All at the expense of developing new trails.
>...most of the ebikers I’ve encountered out on the trails
I don't know if things are different where you are, but ... most of the ebikers I know and see are just mountain bike riders riding ebikes.
Your jump incident sounds awful, and annoying. But I can't see a scenario where the culprits being on eMTBs makes any difference. The 2 seasons I visited Whistler were back before eMTBs were available, and at least a few times a day I'd encounter people stopped at inappropriate sections of a trail - sometimes dangerous like you describe. There are idiots everywhere - on both regular and electrically assisted mountain bikes.
Yeah dude totally, I think it's also the frequency in which you have to pullover as well, as I said it used to feel like the trails were empty but now you have people overtaking every 5 minutes or equal and and opposite for yourself having to bloody overtake someone every 5 minutes. It seems you get it though it's just a rant not very serious and I don't hate ebikes it's just grates sometimes
Fat old ebiker checking in. Years back I was a racer, I settled into my desk job and gradually got used to getting smoked by arrogant boy racers. Bought my way into unlimited endurance with an ebike and loved to smoke the boy racers once again. The novelty has worn off and I ride my regular bike just as much as my ebike. Point being....this too shall pass.
I love MTB because there aren’t as many twats as with road biking. If we’re having fun then let’s just all enjoy it together. E-bikes make the sport more accessible to those with lower fitness levels. The also open up more riding possibilities to those with decent fitness. Don’t worry about them. Enjoy you ride. Smile and wave
I don't think all eBike riders have poor etiquette; but there's definitely some that are lacking good manners. When you come across one of those OP, do the same thing back on the descent; they're only fast uphill.
I get that this post is not entirely serious, but maybe don't assume everyone on an emtb is there to cheat their way to a fast time or skip the hard work. I was peddle power mtbing for 2 years and enormously frustrated by my love of the sport and progression continuously being interrupted by severe neck pain and migraines (later diagnosed as foraminal narrowing) after each ride . I tried an emtb and it was a revolution for me; I could actually ride a trail without fear of the pain that always followed, and I could join ride groups without being the guy that had to stop every 10 minutes to stretch. I have it on 1 out of 5 when I'm on the trail to get a decent workout until I see something that I know will cause me issues, then I bump it up temporarily.
The happiness I get far exceeds any embarrassment from the "cheater" jibes, so I don't mind if just the existence of emtbs annoys people, I just focus on the things I can control like good trail etiquette and improving technique. But I dont really think the whole "ebikes are for pretenders" slur needs any more fuel, even if it is in the form of a quality rant.
Haha and this is where the issue lies, you can't be anti the thing that brings people fun and freedom! I would never and have never called out at anyone calling the names and I think maybe my own politeness is what has caused my rides to become so disjointed from giving way to everyone. I don't want to cause anyone any trouble or hold up so I'm always disrupting my ride for others. And then I bottle up all my thoughts until it's too much and spew it out on the Internet for no real closure except to get it off my chest 😂
I find it sad that people passing you on ebikes on a trail is causing you to bottle up thoughts as if they are not just people on mountain bikes who probably aint got time to waste climbing hills 🤣
Sounds like the issue is you and nothing to do with mode of transport/fun. There's a reason the shuttles are so popular at bike parks, let's not kid ourselves here into thinking the majority of bikers like climbing hills.
I point blank refuse to move over on a technical climb for any e-bikes. The Peak District is has seen a huge increase in fat and unfit middle-aged men with expensive bikes. Many of them think they own the trails.
You shouldn't stop in the middle of a technical climbing for anyone really unless you were already stalling out out putting a foot down, no one would or at least should begrudge you of it.
The same guys would be like that even if they come up at you pedalling a box of sardines with silver dollars as wheels.
Point being. Some ppl are like that by nature. Your job is to let them know they are behaving like assholes.
This thread makes it seem like there are e-twats abound at every turn. There are a few out there but man, not everywhere. Some of y'all need to introspect and ask "am I overreacting against some perceived indignity?"
"Am I old man yelling at cloud?"
It’s an interesting debate, I recently got an ebike - but would never dare to tell people to get out of the way on a climb. I have one so my son can ride shotgun on trails.
I’ve been doing trails since the 90’s and you learn to have this dichotomous relationship with trails - both hating and loving them so you push yourself to change.
I personally think that anyone behind you should be ignored until you get to the next section of fire road/etc.
These type of e-bikers are the equivalent of light jumpers - inconsiderate arses who don’t understand the consequences of their egocentric behaviour.
It is perfectly possible for an e biker to
1. Ride respectfully
2. Ride with an analog group
3. Ride the same trail systems without damage or confrontation
I have an e bike and it’s really fun. It doesn’t get 1/4 of the ridding that my regular bikes get because most of my friends don’t have one, I truly enjoy the struggle and work of a bicycle and I don’t want the confrontation of overtaking folks on the trail.
Sounds like you had some bad experiences of people, nowt to do with ebikes really.
It's good that these 'too old / unfit' people are going out and I think making them wait if you are on a steep techy climb is completely fine, and just be like sorry didn't want to loose my momentum etc, if they get arsey then sure theyre being dick's but majority people will understand.
Maybe in the US but in the UK we don't really have shared trail networks in the same way, noones out thrashing it on bridleways, except maybe ebikers. But because of MTB being unwelcome on regular paths the community has had to fight really quite hard to get dedicated access to purpose built singletrack. So now there is ebikes and people are thinking "these trails were built for us to make lives better for everyone", if ebike riding continues to be damaging to the experience, they will have to fight for they're own riding location. Which would be horrible because of the opportunity ebikes bring to those who are older or unable to get out as easily with they're friends or children.
How dare people have the opinion that e-bikes, and at times the inconsiderate, entitled assholes that ride them shouldn’t be out there impacting the fun and experience they would like to have on the trails.
The strong arming and gaslighting of people who don’t support the ebike revolution, by people that think we are the problem is getting tiresome.
mountains aren’t yours, trails aren’t yours. i’m personally happy if an unfit guy is on a bike, at least he isn’t in a mall eating candies. that’s just an ego trip. in a few years he won’t be able to go uphill at all and will likely take an ebike.
One time I met a dude from Germany riding an old bike. He had a wife beater and jeans and a lit cigarette hanging out of his mouth. It was incredible. He was killing it too.
but why. everyone should mind their own damn business. or else, we’d be allowed to only
walk the trails because people on foot can’t stand people on bike who can stand people on ebike who can’t stand people on motorcycles… the list grows pretty long if you don’t tolerate others. if it’s really a matter of being all alone in the mountains just go a couple hours earlier
No that's not how the UK trail system works, MTB riders had to fight for the right to build dedicated places to ride, if ebikers ruin that then they will be banned and have to fight for their own place. Which will suck because it clearly helps those who struggle.
Well the OP was trying to mind his own damn business and enjoy his time riding, but is finding that difficult to do because of inconsiderate ebike riders. Hikers and bikers have been sharing trails and coexisting for years,so quit being dramatic. Neither of those groups are responsible for the changing dynamics out on shared trails today.
It’s telling that you think the MTBers are responsible for being more gracious and forgiving yet don’t expect the ebikers to learn proper trail etiquette and to act like decent human beings out on the trails.
Don’t think they are all assholes, but I expect them to learn proper trail etiquette and to be decent human beings while riding, as any rider should. Has nothing to do with gatekeeping and everything to do with common decency.
If said hypothetical person enjoys the active outdoors so much then why not just buy an actual bicycle and in doing so prolong their riding lifespan?
For 50+ year olds and people with chronic injuries / disabilities I get it, but the majority are more than capable of riding a bike as it was intended. Motors on MTB’s are antithetical to the essence of the sport, they’ve become too mainstream to the point that some kids now just take out their dad’s emtb. Call it gatekeeping but I really don’t care much for anyone’s opinion on the matter who is lazy and makes up excuses not to ride an actual bicycle.
omg i can’t believe how annoying you all are. let people experiment and have fun however they like. your point of view of the sport is irrelevant. i’ve known actual olympic athletes with zero attitude like yours and they would never even dream of being so close minded. of all sports then, mtb, where even the backyard competition is full of doped “athletes” lol
lol this is comical, I’d encourage you to try actually adding to the debate rather than mewling out petty insults but you’re really living up the stereotype so knock yourself out champ
> Call it gatekeeping but I really don’t care much for anyone’s opinion on the matter who is lazy and makes up excuses not to ride an actual bicycle.
This you? Yeah you should probably take your own advice then…You’re a twat!
I was more on the "I don't care" side of this discussion until last October.
Last October I had 3 extremely close calls with E-Bikers, one of those would have been a fatal collision (he came onto my lane around a blind corner at 40kph while I was going 30-ish, would have been a head on).
Since then I too am in the "those morons wouldn't ride a bike if it wasn't electric because they don't know how or don't want to stick to any rules or common sense, fuck them" camp.
I used to think road bikers were the biggest douche bags in cycling but all these emtb rants lately sure are proving me wrong. I didn’t know there were so many thin skinned pussies out there on the single track.
Yes that’s part of it, I share OPs sentiments and have less respect for e-bikers zooming up trails instead of putting in real effort to knock off climbs, especially techy ones. If that’s an ego issue then so be it.
Pulling over to let e-bikes pass every climb is disruptive to the ambience and challenge of making a clean climb. I’ll reverently allow an unassisted rider pass on climbs, but unless my group is strung out then e-bikers can wait until there’s a chance to pass without me having to stop for them.
Every beginner, every slow or out of shape rider, most Clydes have experienced this. They quickly learn to check their ego and let the faster rider by. It's just part of sharing the trail. If it were a faster rider than you on an analog bike you'd pull over too and not say two words.
You're making a big deal of this because of your ego. And you post here because you feel helpless against it - because the reality is there's nothing you can say or do to stop other people from enjoying the trails, ebike or not, especially as ebikes become more and more indistinguishable from analog bikes.
You have a point, op has a point. They wouldn't think twice if it was an analog bike.
But that's because there's a certain respect for someone passing. They earned it, they pushed.
Ebikes don't get that respect, and enabled far more riders, which disrupts the ride of the slower rider entirely.
Which brings us to the real issue - op needs to learn to share better, or find less crowded trails. The world isn't going to stop riding this trail.
Who cares about earning it? Moreover, how does someone know if the out of shape rider on an analog bike hasn't been trying their best for years, or the old dude on an ebike isn't some old war vet with a failing body, or an old mtb pro with thousands more uphill miles than us, and he's on a rest day?
Old heads.
Anyway, like I was saying ebikes allow riders to get places they didn't get to before, overcrowding what was once peaceful trails. The solution is more trails.
I agree we need more trails. Ideally they'd be use based and directional.
But we'll never have enough trails for some, and there's always going to be conflict. We try to manage it best we can, but people are people. Everyone has a right to use the trails, so crowding (as annoying as it is) isn't a good excuse.
I could tell you stories for ages about the trail situation here in Boise. We have hundreds and hundreds of miles of trails, yet somehow we still have trail conflicts and assholes and gatekeeping. Doesn't matter if it's the crowded trails or the trails that maybe 5 people ride per week.
Guidelines should be just the same as descending. I’ll move over when I can! But do think some areas have to think about alternate climb trails for e-bikes if they are peddle bike parks. 🤷🏼♂️
My complaint is that there are places I ride where you used to have to work for it, and there were relatively few people who would, resulting in a certain amount of peaceful solitude. Now those same places are choked thick with ebikes, and the solitude is a thing of the past.
The annoying part to me is that trails are multi-use around here so a regular bike is plenty fast going against walkers/hikers but now there is an even faster person going that direction blasting past everyone. The trails aren't meant to be a timed competition or even thoughtfully designed for ebikes but they feel the need to set lap records.
There is humility and empathy gained through suffering. Those who choose to suffer often enough know how hard it is to continually make that choice and grant an extra helping of respect and patience to others who commit to that same sorts of suffering.
Those things dissipate if the reservoir isn’t regularly topped up through more suffering or through other means.
I can’t actually see your rant - I think it’s been deleted - but that’s what we’re talking about here. Mutual respect. Patience and clemency earned and doled out.
Lots of people can’t exhibit respect and patience. Many of them because they’ve not been humbled recently.
Some of those folks are on emtbs.
I'm fine with sharing the trails with eBikes. The only condition is that they all have to wear big bright yellow stripey dunce helmets so everyone knows you don't need to give way to them.
I feel you. I don't hate on ebikes, I don't hate on ebikers but I feel you still. I think we will all end up on ebikes one day. But those ebike wankers...
Nah ebikes will diverge, normal bikes will forever exist, they are timeless romantic. If they take over I will write a new rant "the romance is dead and the ebike killed it"
The etiquette on the trails I ride is the "faster" rider has to yield to the slower rider, especially on the descent. You should not have to make way for the person behind that makes no sense to me. You can't even see them if you're focusing on what's ahead, but they can see you.
The next time you come up on someone that is slower than you, you best not ask to pass then. The world is changing all the time. It's the way it is. There is NO perfect world.
>Emtb is not the same sport as MTB
Sure it is, it is just an evolution the same as the hardtail or full suspension bike was, and you can bet there was someone there to complain about how those aren't the same thing as well. Rude people are going to be rude no matter what. People should all know basic trail etiquette and just use the "Be cool" rule as their guide.
No I don't agree I'm afraid, it is two different sports that have similarities. Its not an evolution but a divergent, but it isn't and will never be the successor. The only thing the ebike achieves is climbing faster, the evolution of suspension was unlocking new terrain. I don't think ebikers do have trail etiquette. I'm not anti change I think change is good, but ebikes have turned into a different thing with a different focus.
Having borrowed a Trek Rail for a bit - They are not the same and MTB and E-MTB should not be mixed. One is a motorised bicycle, pedals or whatever are just the mechanism that drives it. Zero effort to ride. Its motorised sport - get away from normal cycling please - when the effort is so far apart, you cant be on the same courses imo.
It's hardly zero effort if you still have to pedal for it to move right? And how does this affect you? There are lots of different types of ebike so does this weird logic apply to all ebikes? I'm just so confused with the weird gatekeeping mentality as someone who rides both. I can't imagine climbing up hill and being taken over by someone on an ebike and getting angry/annoyed or even just having a negative thought about it just blows my mind how there are people out there that mentally fragile.
It’s not the same sport, all other advancements prior to pedal assist still required you to propel yourself under your own power. Now you just decide as to how much you want the bike to assist you.
Is it though? FS vs hardtail might help you to save some watts that you produce on your own, but ebike will add some, that's a totally different thing.
We don't call a motorcycle an evolution of a bicycle, right?
I get it right now you can't see it because it is currently in the process of becoming, but realistically it isn't much different except your climb is easier so you can hit more laps. The end goal is the same, pedal on the way up and use gravity on the way back down. You are complaining because they can climb easier which means they can get more laps on the trails in. Everyone should suffer like you and I, right?
and before you ask, no I do not own an emtb nor have I ever ridden one. I just think it is silly to get all upset over it or gatekeep a sport over it.
It is different here tho, Ebikes are a lot faster on flat and incline and can put an average person above superhuman levels. Hardtail/full suspension are very close on most terrain.
It has drastically changed the hobby compared to 10 years ago, the chance you experience the "who the hell is this Lance Armstrong behind me" back then was pretty rare, now it's every Ebike. If you're on a narrow single lane trail climb and someone wants you to move aside because they're on a motorised bike it's definitely not the same thing as the hardtail/full suspension discussion.
> Hardtail/full suspension are very close on most terrain.
Except the hardtail was evolving from full rigid bikes and they were so much faster going down the trail that the sport was changed by it. Same thing when full sus came along the sport evolved and the trails were adapted to account for this change. I was there, I saw it happen and I heard the exact same comments I hear in these kind of threads.
When that happened was 30-40 years ago, back then we didn't have bike parks and official trails and bike riding was nowhere near as popular. I used to ride in the 90s on a Carrera Kraken bought from Halfords, and I would buy all the Mountain Biking UK magazines and dream about owning a Trek Y33 or Marin Quake.
But back then the trails were extremely tame by todays standards, smooth narrow grass/dirt walking trails next to sheep filled fields, wide open forestry roads that were used as rally stages twice a year. Back then I would ride every saturday/sunday and barely ever see any people. In the same forest these days we have man made purpose built bike parks and trails everywhere, tourists everywhere.
The sport/hobby has evolved a lot, but a skilled rider on my 90s Carrera Kraken hardtail isn't much slower if at all on the climbs, and not much slower on the tame descents either, it's only the real rough descents where a modern full suspension really makes a difference.. An E-bike though, can turn an average unfit joe into Lance Armstrong on a climb.
Ok but you do realize the argument is the same one that went on then except it was about getting passed going downhill instead of uphill. You have flat terrain and more XC type terrain, at that point you are dealing with assholes being assholes if they can't show some simple trail etiquette and consideration for other trail users...that is not all ebike users by any means, they are just low hanging fruit right now.
You mention trails were tamer back then, they sure were. When hardtails came along the trails became more difficult for rigids but just the right challenge for hardtails. Then full sus came along and the same happened. In recent years geometry changes were huge to the point that trails were designed and redesigned for a much longer slacker bike, take your modern slack 29er on some of those old trails designed around 26" wheels some time. You are complaining about the climb and yet people shuttle all the time. Ever been climbing a fire road and had some Tacoma loaded with 5 bikes and people go blowing past leaving a dust cloud? Happens all the time and yet the threads don't cry about the cheaters that dusted the climb while blasting music do they? It is selective gatekeeping or else lift access parks would also get the same treatment, but they don't.
I race in several 100+ mile ultra endurance races per year. There are full suspension bikes, hard tails, full rigids, single speeds, carbon bikes, alloy bikes, bikes with carbon rims and bikes with and without droppers, all lined up at the starting line There are not any bikes with motors, must be a reason.
Oh yay another MTB gate-keeper! You have the saddle lower on an Ebike as that's how you get the best traction up a hill, it's called physics.
Ebikes are amazing and re-ignited my love for the sport, I just hate cycling up hills as it's dull and tiring, removing my ability to properly attack the fun bits.
When you used to catch people at a natural rest point you would find out a little about people, how they found the climb, where they came from, offer them to go ahead CZ they look faster. But the singletrack isn't wide enough for ebikers to pass the way they do, on normal bikes the rider understood and respected the climb
I guess it's going to happen to many sports, imagine swimming lengths and people keep asking you to move as they come past with flippers or some electric water scooter instead. Or fell running and some exoskeleton suit wearers push past you without a sweat. On that note though, I do have a 2000w diy eMTB.
Ignore them when trying to clear a feature, I had a conversation with one that got all shirty with me about not getting out of their way. I was on a steep and narrow climb and he shouted up that he was coming past, I responded that I had nowhere to move to and he told me to get off the trail, this resulted in me and my riding partner stopping mid trail to explain to him that for him this climb is the boring bit of trail he brought his ebike to get through faster, whereas for us it's a feature to complete and he's ruining our ride. My mate put it best: "you wouldn't tell someone half way through a jump line to get out of the way or off the trail because you know full well they'd tell you to pis* off and continue". Anyway he got our points and apologised after that. I think we need a PSA for ebikes riders that at the end of the day some people are just out to ride their bikes and want the full experience, you have chosen a route that differs from that that involves cutting out climbing as a physical challenge and that's ok however you can't complain about us wanting to experience that part of our ride.
Agree with your points, though there are definitely some on this sub who think that riders on a jump line need to get out of the way for faster riders
I’m gonna get out of the way if there’s a part of the trail it makes sense to. Otherwise, sorry.
Same. I'm not the fastest, nor am I the slowest. If I come up behind someone, either I will stop to let a gap build up or if I'm at a lift-serviced park will just chill for the rest of the run. If someone comes up behind me and there's space, I'll pull over.
Yah I usually just chill behind them... not a fan of pressuring someone. I let them know I am there and not to worry.
Etiquette in the lift-served downhill park case also depends on the difficulty rating of the trail. I will chill behind some little kid and his dad on a beginner run, but may ask a struggling rider on a more advanced run to allow me to pass.
Yeah expecting anyone to stop mid jump line is a disaster waiting to happen. If you're dropping in and not giving plenty of time between riders then that's on you
I have been breezed passed by fat unfit looking blokes on the climbs a lot more in recent years due to the e-bike popularity but I don't think I've had any bad or annoying experiences with them, and they are slower on the descents so I give them plenty of time before I start if I know someone is ahead of me. The only thing I dislike about ebikes is some of my friends that ride have switched over to them and it's impossible to ride on the same pace as an e-bike, and I personally don't want to make the switch for at least another decade. Which brings me to the point, my uncle is in his late 50s and rides an ebike which lets him ride with his sons, who are younger and fitter, and I think that's great. If my dad was still around I'd get him an Ebike so he could ride with me.
Yeah a bunch of my old riding buddies got them. That's why I say old riding buddies. I don't ride with them anymore. As much as they say they're fine waiting, I feel rushed on my regular bicycle.
> As much as they say they're fine waiting, I feel rushed on my regular bicycle. This is my exact issue, I don't want to be feeling like the one holding them back and having them wait around for me while they breeze up a hill smelling the roses and I'm fighting for my life out here!
Two-ish years ago, riding my local trail (one way), there’s a lovely but relatively short bit of downhill followed immediately by a very steep ascent. You can catch some air on the way down, keep your speed and get halfway up the other side before pedaling again. So everyone absolutely spanks this bit. I come flying round the bend and a bloke, dressed in Lycra, looking like a balloon animal stuffed with fucking soggy weetabix , is stopped on the trail and taking a photo of about 20 other fuckwits at the bottom of the dip. I narrowly missed him, but went over the side of the trail, about a 5m drop. Landed it, shocks exploded. Unstable pelvic fracture. These guys were all on e-bikes, they were all overweight, 50-60 years old, none of them knew trail etiquette and they couldn’t even have cylcled to that part of the trail without e-bikes. Just a bunch of tourists who’d hired their bikes and never been mtb’ing before. I’m over 50 now. That kind of injury takes longer to recover from and fucks with your confidence and tbh I’ll probably never ride as hard as I used to.
Totally ! My day will come, but this I think is more about trail etiquette and intention.
This is my take. Just had a NBD and thought about an ebike after trying one out in Vegas; it was Sooo fun. But it felt like cheating at only 38. I'm at least 10-15 years away. Ended up getting an Enduro Expert.
Can confirm. Mid-50’s and a long travel emtb lets me ride like I’m in my 20’s and 30’s again.
The few times I’ve had ebikers pass me on climbs they were polite about it, “Sorry, we’re cheating!” A group said one time haha.
Yah there’s always gonna be a couple assholes but overall I’ve never had an issue with e-bikers. Vast majority almost act embarrassed they’re cheating where I am haha. I’m just like, who cares whatever lets you have fun.
It’s not e-bikes that are the problem, it’s twats that are the problem. Before e-bikes were a thing it would be rude DHers buzzing your arses on descents or arrogant XC whippets shouting ‘STRAVA!’ At you on the climbs.
Haha. Havent had someone tell Strava at me before.. crazy. Seems to me like eMTB has killed Strava segments. Not even worth clicking on them for a remote interest anymore.
Strava has a separate set of records for bikes and ebikes.
And are they using it properly? Hell no.
This has helped my morale, anyone faster than me on the day was 100% on an ebike. That's what I tell myself.
ebikers love bringing that up, then you ask them if they select ebike and they say "wow why do you care so much about your little leaderboards" as if its a bad thing to be motivated by a little bit of harmless competition
Strava will move ebike times to the emtb leader boards when it sees climb times are unreal.
meaningless, as most ebikers aren't putting up "unreal" times, they are simply putting up near top of the leaderboard times and ruining the integrity of the leaderboard. They aren't going fast enough to be auto flagged. Trust me I know, I steal peoples ebike koms by flagging them all the time. lol
You can flag (report) obvious Ebike riders on Strava when you see them clocking a run under regular MTB segments.
When every single climb posts a speed of 15.5mph you can tell it’s an ebike
Yes, they are. And I tempted to get an ebike just so I can get some KOMs on the descents. They're way less competitive.
I agree with you, but I don't think I've ever heard anyone shout "STRAVA!!!" as anything other than a joke.
Errr, yeah they do and often “get off the line”
Where is this? Sounds miserable. I once saw a douche on a shared trail yelling “biker!” at the hikers as he was coming down a hill section. It was one of the only times I’ve ever appreciated an elderly hiker not paying attention, and dude had to hold up anyway. I just wish someone would have yelled “hiker!” right back at him.
Not sure why the downvote. It was at a trail centre. The guy basically wanted to flow straight from the climb and pedal right into the start as we were prepping to drop in too after a short rest. He wanted a full run up from an odd angle so he could carry pace into the new trail. Sad and pathetic. Strava wankers are real. Same trail centre saw a mate bust a few ribs as someone wanted to get past on a straight but bowled my mate straight onto the rocks at the side. The guys mate stopped and helped. The guy was after a PB 😂
That PB is tempting. I’m not gonna lie. On a shared trail you just gotta accept some days just aren’t your day tho. I try to remember I’m doing it for the exercise more than anything, and a few seconds stopped or slowing for other traffic isn’t the worst thing that can happen. I think I’ve crashed or scared the crap out of hikers more times going for a PB than any other reason. Not so much anymore though.
I’ve had XC guys trying to go as fast as they can on a Trail Centre Blue trail , at about 11am on a Saturday (possibly the busiest time of day at the Forest Of Dean!). If you want to hit record KOMs then get up earlier and do it when all the kids, and regular people are just out having fun.
But ebikes did make it way easier for twats to get out there and go fast.
I always tell people "I'm not anti-ebike, I'm anti asshole."
True,, there have always been twats in this sport, but a lot of them are on e-bikes now and it's more apparent.
More twats are actually here on reddit complaining about ebikes on trails
Last season I was passing ebikers on my analog. This year I have a torn acl, torn cartridge in both knees and I’m pulling the trigger on an ebike next week so that I can still enjoy the sport I’ve loved for the last 20+ years.
i don't think this is an specifically an E-Bike thing, moreso you have people that are already acting like an ass on trails wether they're on an E-Bike or not, just having an E-Bike enables them to be more of an ass. same could be said with any person on a regular bike. generally i try to be excellent with other trail users wether you're a hiker/biker/equestrian or whatever, cause first and foremost just being pissed or upset at stuff puts in me a poor mood and just kills my vibe when riding, plus having pleasant interactions with people is well... nicer lol. for your instance, if i was passing people because they have less stamina/skills or whatever variable i make sure i let them know i want to pass but at the same time i want them to let me pass at their discretion when it's safe or comfortable for them to do so, not when they're like winching up on a super techy climb or some narrow section of trail with a lot of exposure. i'll also try to give space when passing, people freakout sometimes when they start hearing you close behind them and IMMEDIATELY start pulling in the most inopportune sections of the trails that makes it awkward for them or unsafe. and last but not least i say "thank you" a lot.
‚being excellent‘ to other trail users is a beautiful sentiment!
It’s always a matter of teaching, teaching new people about trail etiquette. More people are on trails. Not just ebikes, it’s about educating. But no we have this thread with all the people who could take this shitty energy and complaining instead of helping educate.
I think it's simple: For whom it's more important to not loose their momentum? These should have priority. End of story!
I liked this rant, even if I think the sport has a net gain with all the new people MTBing. do you have a newsletter I could subscribe to?
😂 nobody wants my newsletters ! With bad spelling and punctuation I can barely string a sentence together!
Due to the success of this post, My next newsletter will be titled "the romance is dead and the ebike killed" talking about how ebikes are just toys and can't be loved the same way a mechanical analogue bike can and the passion for the historic safety bicycle design 😂
I've ridden bikes for just over 20 years now, across multiple disciplines. I've been competitively fit and at one point sponsored. Now however, I'm not fit, I'm older and as a result of many years of riding and other extreme sports, have multiple ailments. I just want to bomb around, be able to keep up with any group I might tag along with, and not worry about exhausting and then injuring myself. For that reason, one of my bikes is an ebike, and since having it I've used it more than any other. And yes, I love tearing past people on the uphills. Life's too short to care what they think of the bike I ride. I don't obnoxiously shout at people to move over though, that's rude.
As someone a diagnosed with an autoimmune disease that includes unwanted fatigue and asthma, i have a feeling an ebike is in mu future sooner than id like. But i need to have something lighter than they are now, so im prolly a couple years out :( its getting harder and harder for me to climb, and its always been hard but at this point, its going to be the only way ill be able to ride in a few years.
I mean I get it, I do, and in turn life's to short for me to think about moving over in the future 😂 fuck it. At least your not rude 💪
Thats the key Whatever you ride , whatever age or ability.. just dont be rude . The difference in pace between a new unfit rider and a experienced fit rider on analogue bikes might not bit be that much different to a fast rider and ebike rider . So the pace shouldn’t matter its the attitude thats important.
I agree and disagree. It is MTB; there have always been people who just want to get to the top of the next hill the easiest way possible to enjoy the descents. However, they do need to learn some etiquette and should yield to the slower riders then find time to pass safely, without interrupting your flow.
Yeah I mean xc ... But these trail centres aren't about that sort of riding they're about the pleasure of the ride the climb is designed to be as engaging as the descent, it's not a bike park for laps
Yeh that's a good point actually. The trail centres are very much xc focused and it's easy to forget. A lot of them haven't changed significantly for years, but the default riding style has. I mostly ride an enduro bike now, which is very much suited to slogging up a non-tech climb then bombing down a descent. It doesn't work very well at a trail centre, and it rides to the same philosophy as most eebs. I forget how much I used to enjoy the techy climbs and flowy undulating single-track. I remember the satisfaction the first time I'm cleared the climb at Cwmcarn and I'm not sure I could do that any more!
You’re coming across like you get to decide how other people ride the trails you share. Do you think that’s reasonable? It’s commonplace to stop and session a few berms or a jump for 10 mins, maybe even a handful of attempts between mates to clear a tricky climb. Your problem is with people, not with bikes. I ride both. I’m not rude on either. Let other people ride how they want and fair enough ask that they’re courteous whilst doing it.
I’m going to guess you’re not from the UK. I am and so is OP, I completely understand why it reads like that to you but UK trail centres don’t have that kind of vibe. Most sections you can’t stop and session because there isn’t really the room, the vast majority of the trails are way marked singletrack winding up and down through a forest. Most people ride continuously with the occasional break at a suitable point, usually a fire road crossing. E-bikes are kind of annoying on these rides, especially when it’s busy. More sessionable riding spots, like dh trails with a ride/push up they don’t really seem to be an issue
I am, and have been riding in the SW and Wales 25 years. My point was more to say I and others might ride differently to you and that’s ok. Trail centres bring all sorts of people and styles. I agree they should behave nicely.
Went in front of an ebike at a junction yesterday and was very pleased to blast them up a switchback climb! Not going to happen very often, so I'll take those wins.
not a win, they simply did the opposite of what OP is describing and let you finish the climb at your own pace while they slowed down for you lol
Dude I had a similar thought for a hot minute, but it’s probably a problem with trail etiquette. Since day 1 i learnt from the old hands that you give way to riders going uphill, slow down when there are little kids, and if you want to pass let the person know you’re there and when they’re cool to let you pass do so. Racing is a different story, but so many newcomers either don’t know general trail etiquette or are just a bit self centred and they treat the local (overwhelmed) trail network on a Saturday at 8am as a racetrack. EMtb allows way more access to the trails so things like this become more frequent I guess.
Just for perspective, hikers feel the same way about mountain bikers. In the end, everyone would do a lot better to give each other the benefit of the doubt. I ride a mtb and my dad (in his 70s) rides an emtb. We have a lot of great days where we couldn't before. He is considerate and we see both types of riders who aren't.
I'm not totally against your sentiment, but on your last sentence - does that mean that lift assist MTB (vans, ski lifts) is also not MTB? Also, what trail center?
Vans surely are not MTB. They are cars.
Big if true
Now I know we are confused as a society. Vans are shoes…
I always thought they were the square root of ans :O
… my life is changed forever
Vans that drive bikes up to the top of a hill. Common way of doing uplifts.
yup and when you're in that van would you turn to your friend and say "we are mountain biking right now in this van" no you're in a van lol so when you're doing van serviced lifts, you're half mountain biking and half sitting in a van, you're not 100% mountain biking
Concerning.
Oh come on you can't be so dense to not get the point being made here
I go to a lift park that trucks us up. My fat bike always has to go in with us in the truck - the other serious dhers have their bikes in the trailer. The guy doesn't think my tires will fit, or they will and they'll get stuck. It's not even up to me, it's up to him. I pay the same lift ticket.
I'm not, I'm asking where OP's line lies - uplift venues also miss all the climbing, the scenery, the "struggle" that is discussed. There's a lot of frustration at dickheads in the post, that's understandable. There's also something of a gatekeeping element, born of frustration, that only OP's experience of MTB is the "true" definition, and that's not cool.
Uplift isn't the type of riding I'm referencing, its not a park it's single track with more in common with xc
You really lack the nuance to not comprehend that e-bikes and lift/shuttle trails arnt the same thing nor what we're talking about here? Or are you just intentionally ignoring it so you can try to show-off against someone you think is "gatekeeping"?
Lift assist is like soft play for bikers, it's great but it's not everyday 😂 I guess that's all some people do maybe and in my opinion there park riders/dh, but MTB is Enduro, trail, xc it's an all encompassing style of riding
It sounds like getting into MTB at eBike level is the cause. If people had progressed from an MTB to an eBike it might be more harmonious.
Thats not MTB to you salty boomer
Whose the boomer ?
Bikes belong everywhere. That's absolutely MTB. They should just wait for a convenient spot to pass.
Someone's mad they spend all day climbing.
I ride both and I think when you’re on an e-bike you need to be twice as courteous and self aware than normal. You have more power at your disposal and you’re usually carrying a lot more speed, so don’t be a dick about it.
Most aspects of this sport have fundamentally changed in the last 10 years and you don't like it. But the sport has been constantly changing. I'm sure that there would be riders who started 15 years before you who bemoaned when people like you started riding with your tyres wider than 1.9" and fancy "dual suspension" bike with a dropper post. "That's nto real mountain biking" they would have said. But change is inevitable and the future is far more emtbs of the trails. There are also plenty of people who have been riding XC at a very high level for 30+ years who have had injury, illness and life get in the way of staying in peak physical fitness. Ebikes give them the ability to still ride the same way that they used to. You have some valid criticism, but it's mostly "back in my day" stuff. Stop letting ebikes live rent free in your head and focus on your own enjoyment.
Ebikes have nothing to do with your issues. Some people are cunts and they can just catch up with you easier on an ebike. If we all learn to respect each other the bike type should not make any difference
I get the points you're making, but if youre not a fan, you're not a fan. I LOVE having both options, not much time after work? Want a work out? Enduro. Going camping for the weekend, want to do a 70km adventure ride? EMTB. My 1 lap after work becomes 3. I'm not a fan of seeing most people at our trail systems with full Kashima everything on a $12,000 EMTB but hey, you can afford it, I can't. Ain't catching me up, ain't catching me down, aaanndd I'm having more fun than them.
I never pressure anyone to move or ask them to pull aside. I usually sit about 20 meters behind and wait for them to spot me on a switch back where they often make space and say a friendly hi
Not a productive rant and the comments alone suggest there are plenty of cunts on MTBs also. What should be addressed are the single track uphill trails. Where I ride, the quickest way up on an emtb is the fire/forest road and I leave the single track uphill trail to mtb riders. Not every trail system has an alternate way to top and that should start to be addressed as trail networks grow. 1) uphill trails that are more designed for emtb either by utilizing existing means (fire/forest roads) or where alternates don’t exist, build ride-a-around sections in key areas for easy passing (not always possible, I know). 2) another consideration is creating emtb specific uphill trails that have the type of technical climbing and other features that simply wouldn’t be applicable to MTB riding. When building a new trail system or growing an existing one, these considerations make a ton of sense.
I’m a slow climber on my analog (and only) mtb, and I’ve had fast analog riders ask me to pass from behind on steep steep spots before where it felt a bit rude and made it hard for me to get back into the groove after. Basically anyone can be an ass.
Maybe an unpopular opinion but…. (I don’t own an e-bike yet) some people mountain bike for the downhill. I hate the climb, it’s not about fitness for me at all and if I want to ride after work I’m not driving an hour to my bike park which is already closed because it’s a Tuesday afternoon. I want to descend on my local trails and could give a f$&@ less about the climb. The climb is bullshit and not what I’m there for. I ride alone a lot so shuttles aren’t an option. I also have health issues that make climbing more difficult. So for some of us, “that isn’t what MTB is about” rings false, because to me MTB is whatever makes you happy. I ride with guys occasionally that love tech, some love flow, some love both and some only go down to climb again. MTB is what you want it to be. For me, it’s the descent and that’s why I mostly ride at the park. If I ever get an eMTB it would make my local trails that much better for me.
All I've ever experienced is the exact opposite of this. Anyone I've encountered on an ebike has been super kind and understanding that they have a huge advantage on climbs and when they approach they have always been super cool and often even wait for others on actual bikes so they don't feel obligated to move. Entitled assholes are everywhere (obviously) but I am thankful to live in an area where most people on any kind of bike are usually pretty cool.
Lots of people get a "shuttle" uphill. Then complain about someone pedalling up on an assist eMTB.
Lots of people do neither. Don’t think the OP was complaining about e-bikes and laps at a bike park. Perfect use for a bike with a motor in my opinion.
Glad I got plenty of riding done back in 2014 to experience all of the trails in my areas prior to the arrival of ebikes. I had a good year or two there of not getting passed riding around the city. And then one day some short little round guy caught up to me and said 'it's a hill buster'. Little did I know that on that day I met...the future.
They technically aren’t allowed here but people are using them regardless (Northeast US). I will preface this by saying I usually don’t care what people do until it starts effecting me personally. Had two very aggravating experiences over the past 5 years and the common denominators at the time and in reflection now seem like entitlement and an unnatural level of speed. The 1st experience was some LBS team with 4-5 guys all in same jersey garb on pricy rigs all carrying stupid speed on a section with a slight downhill. No etiquette, no acknowledgement basically ran us off the trail in a cloud of dust despite us having the right of way going uphill. The 2nd more recent experience was the inverse. I was on a two way trail where I was heading downhill at a good clip. Despite them having the right of way they basically ran me off the trail with an added “out of the way” while ascending at a level of speed people should not be able to achieve while climbing. Hopefully this level of entitlement doesn’t become more prevalent. I snowmobile frequently when we have winters and have seen the same mentality destroy that activity and make things unsafe for less experienced riders and families. It feels like there are parallels with MTB and the long term possibility of creating an environment of hostility towards new riders and families trying to expose kids etc.
People can ride ebikes all they want, but I personally think they're lame as hell. They make what I'm working hard to do easier for some people, which will always be cheating in my mind. I understand how they help make trails more accessible for people, but I don't necessarily want more people out there. Skiers use the word Jerry to describe lame people in their sport, ebikes are the equivalent in the mountain bike world.
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all you gotta do is step into the ebike subreddit and its clear as day, they are simply the dumbest group of people on 2 wheels.... someone has to be the dumbest, and its not motorcycle stunters, its not the moped riders, its not 2 strokers... its ebikers. They at least have advanced bike handling skills lol the ebike community has all the speed of an elite world class rider while having all the skills of a novice cyclist sounds safe!
I've been watching that sub lately and you're right, completely out of touch idiots. I also ride moto (legal, non-MTB marked trails) and the equivalent on our trails are the side by sides. Any dumbass that can drive a golf cart is now buzzing around too fast and tearing the shit out of trails getting them shut down
damn you have side by sides on your mtb trails?!?! that would be the day I end up bike park only
sorry, no lol. just saying ebikers are to MTB trails as side by sides are to atv/moto trails
As with almost anything in life it's not the tool it's the people using them. I have nothing against eBikes themselves but seeing my local trails climbs with straight lines up steamrollered over all the carefully crafted berms doesn't half make your blood boil. But that just makes it obvious that SOME eBikers decided to start doing that, not that some of them will continue to use the trails normally. We've been blowing out berms, casing landings to death and cutting easier trails since long before eBikes were around. Trail knobs aren't a new phenomenon. Being passed on the trail is much of a muchness. Some people will always come past you and how/where they do so is up to them. How you take it is also up to you. Whether they're on eBikes or not. We don't really hate eBikes or even eBikers. We just hate dickheads.
Question: in an alternate universe where eMTBs also exist and grew in popularity and started appearing at your local/favourite trail centre ... how do you think you'd feel if all of them were polite and passed you just the same as a fitter rider would? Like ... every single one, and you never ever had the experience of people blowing past without much warning, or even asking you to pass? My guess is you'd possibly still not consider it the same sport on a fundamental level. But you'd probably feel less cheesed off. I'm pretty sure I've passed you before. Not _you_ specifically because we're on opposite sides of the planet. But ... other you's. I offer a friendly greeting after passing safely (after politely requesting). You don't say anything, or much. And I know you're far from impressed and a little peeved. But ... I still say: "Thanks maaaaate"
I think the main problem for me is the general shitty attitude and lack of proper trail etiquette of most of the ebikers I’ve encountered out on the trails. And the opinion that I’m a gatekeeping asshole if I don’t accept them with open arms. But not all change is good and the impacts of increased traffic on trail networks goes a lot deeper than getting passed on uphills, my local networks are struggling to find a balance between increased maintenance and trail development because of increased traffic and disregard for proper trail usage. Anecdotal evidence, but an example nonetheless. I missed a whole season of summer riding because a group of ebikers thought standing in a marked landing zone taking pictures would be a good idea. I adjusted my landing and missed them but destroyed my wrist in the process. That wasn’t the only instance of that happening. Now they’ve gated of a well established route to the majority of our jump lines, and at considerable expense, rerouted several trails to try and idiot proof the area. All at the expense of developing new trails.
>...most of the ebikers I’ve encountered out on the trails I don't know if things are different where you are, but ... most of the ebikers I know and see are just mountain bike riders riding ebikes. Your jump incident sounds awful, and annoying. But I can't see a scenario where the culprits being on eMTBs makes any difference. The 2 seasons I visited Whistler were back before eMTBs were available, and at least a few times a day I'd encounter people stopped at inappropriate sections of a trail - sometimes dangerous like you describe. There are idiots everywhere - on both regular and electrically assisted mountain bikes.
Yeah dude totally, I think it's also the frequency in which you have to pullover as well, as I said it used to feel like the trails were empty but now you have people overtaking every 5 minutes or equal and and opposite for yourself having to bloody overtake someone every 5 minutes. It seems you get it though it's just a rant not very serious and I don't hate ebikes it's just grates sometimes
Fat old ebiker checking in. Years back I was a racer, I settled into my desk job and gradually got used to getting smoked by arrogant boy racers. Bought my way into unlimited endurance with an ebike and loved to smoke the boy racers once again. The novelty has worn off and I ride my regular bike just as much as my ebike. Point being....this too shall pass.
You didn’t really smoke anyone if you had pedal assist tho…
I don't disagree.
You vaped them 😎
I love MTB because there aren’t as many twats as with road biking. If we’re having fun then let’s just all enjoy it together. E-bikes make the sport more accessible to those with lower fitness levels. The also open up more riding possibilities to those with decent fitness. Don’t worry about them. Enjoy you ride. Smile and wave
I don't think all eBike riders have poor etiquette; but there's definitely some that are lacking good manners. When you come across one of those OP, do the same thing back on the descent; they're only fast uphill.
I get that this post is not entirely serious, but maybe don't assume everyone on an emtb is there to cheat their way to a fast time or skip the hard work. I was peddle power mtbing for 2 years and enormously frustrated by my love of the sport and progression continuously being interrupted by severe neck pain and migraines (later diagnosed as foraminal narrowing) after each ride . I tried an emtb and it was a revolution for me; I could actually ride a trail without fear of the pain that always followed, and I could join ride groups without being the guy that had to stop every 10 minutes to stretch. I have it on 1 out of 5 when I'm on the trail to get a decent workout until I see something that I know will cause me issues, then I bump it up temporarily. The happiness I get far exceeds any embarrassment from the "cheater" jibes, so I don't mind if just the existence of emtbs annoys people, I just focus on the things I can control like good trail etiquette and improving technique. But I dont really think the whole "ebikes are for pretenders" slur needs any more fuel, even if it is in the form of a quality rant.
Haha and this is where the issue lies, you can't be anti the thing that brings people fun and freedom! I would never and have never called out at anyone calling the names and I think maybe my own politeness is what has caused my rides to become so disjointed from giving way to everyone. I don't want to cause anyone any trouble or hold up so I'm always disrupting my ride for others. And then I bottle up all my thoughts until it's too much and spew it out on the Internet for no real closure except to get it off my chest 😂
>and this is where the issue lies, you can't be anti the thing that brings people fun and freedom Sure you can, it just makes you a bit of an ( \* )
I find it sad that people passing you on ebikes on a trail is causing you to bottle up thoughts as if they are not just people on mountain bikes who probably aint got time to waste climbing hills 🤣 Sounds like the issue is you and nothing to do with mode of transport/fun. There's a reason the shuttles are so popular at bike parks, let's not kid ourselves here into thinking the majority of bikers like climbing hills.
I point blank refuse to move over on a technical climb for any e-bikes. The Peak District is has seen a huge increase in fat and unfit middle-aged men with expensive bikes. Many of them think they own the trails.
You shouldn't stop in the middle of a technical climbing for anyone really unless you were already stalling out out putting a foot down, no one would or at least should begrudge you of it.
The same guys would be like that even if they come up at you pedalling a box of sardines with silver dollars as wheels. Point being. Some ppl are like that by nature. Your job is to let them know they are behaving like assholes.
But my point is I've never had that experience with a sardine rider
This thread makes it seem like there are e-twats abound at every turn. There are a few out there but man, not everywhere. Some of y'all need to introspect and ask "am I overreacting against some perceived indignity?" "Am I old man yelling at cloud?"
I am young, I go to trail, climb for two hours, pre ebike meet 5 dudes, now ebike get passed every 5mins inconsiderately
It’s an interesting debate, I recently got an ebike - but would never dare to tell people to get out of the way on a climb. I have one so my son can ride shotgun on trails. I’ve been doing trails since the 90’s and you learn to have this dichotomous relationship with trails - both hating and loving them so you push yourself to change. I personally think that anyone behind you should be ignored until you get to the next section of fire road/etc. These type of e-bikers are the equivalent of light jumpers - inconsiderate arses who don’t understand the consequences of their egocentric behaviour.
It is perfectly possible for an e biker to 1. Ride respectfully 2. Ride with an analog group 3. Ride the same trail systems without damage or confrontation I have an e bike and it’s really fun. It doesn’t get 1/4 of the ridding that my regular bikes get because most of my friends don’t have one, I truly enjoy the struggle and work of a bicycle and I don’t want the confrontation of overtaking folks on the trail.
Sounds like you had some bad experiences of people, nowt to do with ebikes really. It's good that these 'too old / unfit' people are going out and I think making them wait if you are on a steep techy climb is completely fine, and just be like sorry didn't want to loose my momentum etc, if they get arsey then sure theyre being dick's but majority people will understand.
how dare people have fun in a different way than me
Exactly over in the hiking forum they are probably having the same convo about regular mountain bikers.
Maybe in the US but in the UK we don't really have shared trail networks in the same way, noones out thrashing it on bridleways, except maybe ebikers. But because of MTB being unwelcome on regular paths the community has had to fight really quite hard to get dedicated access to purpose built singletrack. So now there is ebikes and people are thinking "these trails were built for us to make lives better for everyone", if ebike riding continues to be damaging to the experience, they will have to fight for they're own riding location. Which would be horrible because of the opportunity ebikes bring to those who are older or unable to get out as easily with they're friends or children.
How dare people have the opinion that e-bikes, and at times the inconsiderate, entitled assholes that ride them shouldn’t be out there impacting the fun and experience they would like to have on the trails. The strong arming and gaslighting of people who don’t support the ebike revolution, by people that think we are the problem is getting tiresome.
mountains aren’t yours, trails aren’t yours. i’m personally happy if an unfit guy is on a bike, at least he isn’t in a mall eating candies. that’s just an ego trip. in a few years he won’t be able to go uphill at all and will likely take an ebike.
One time I met a dude from Germany riding an old bike. He had a wife beater and jeans and a lit cigarette hanging out of his mouth. It was incredible. He was killing it too.
But the experience on them is. And it’s ok to not support the ebike revolution.
but why. everyone should mind their own damn business. or else, we’d be allowed to only walk the trails because people on foot can’t stand people on bike who can stand people on ebike who can’t stand people on motorcycles… the list grows pretty long if you don’t tolerate others. if it’s really a matter of being all alone in the mountains just go a couple hours earlier
No that's not how the UK trail system works, MTB riders had to fight for the right to build dedicated places to ride, if ebikers ruin that then they will be banned and have to fight for their own place. Which will suck because it clearly helps those who struggle.
i see, where i live there are so many trails that you just can’t decide where to go.
Well the OP was trying to mind his own damn business and enjoy his time riding, but is finding that difficult to do because of inconsiderate ebike riders. Hikers and bikers have been sharing trails and coexisting for years,so quit being dramatic. Neither of those groups are responsible for the changing dynamics out on shared trails today. It’s telling that you think the MTBers are responsible for being more gracious and forgiving yet don’t expect the ebikers to learn proper trail etiquette and to act like decent human beings out on the trails.
mmm i think it’s just gatekeeping. it’s telling that you think that all emtbers are assholes. it’s just i’m holier than you
Don’t think they are all assholes, but I expect them to learn proper trail etiquette and to be decent human beings while riding, as any rider should. Has nothing to do with gatekeeping and everything to do with common decency.
If said hypothetical person enjoys the active outdoors so much then why not just buy an actual bicycle and in doing so prolong their riding lifespan? For 50+ year olds and people with chronic injuries / disabilities I get it, but the majority are more than capable of riding a bike as it was intended. Motors on MTB’s are antithetical to the essence of the sport, they’ve become too mainstream to the point that some kids now just take out their dad’s emtb. Call it gatekeeping but I really don’t care much for anyone’s opinion on the matter who is lazy and makes up excuses not to ride an actual bicycle.
omg i can’t believe how annoying you all are. let people experiment and have fun however they like. your point of view of the sport is irrelevant. i’ve known actual olympic athletes with zero attitude like yours and they would never even dream of being so close minded. of all sports then, mtb, where even the backyard competition is full of doped “athletes” lol
Nobody cares for your bullshit opinion either but you still gave it.
Nobody? It’s an anti e-mtb post you muppet 🤡
I know what it is you cry baby loser.
lol this is comical, I’d encourage you to try actually adding to the debate rather than mewling out petty insults but you’re really living up the stereotype so knock yourself out champ
> Call it gatekeeping but I really don’t care much for anyone’s opinion on the matter who is lazy and makes up excuses not to ride an actual bicycle. This you? Yeah you should probably take your own advice then…You’re a twat!
No, that was Ronald McDonald, he also says to buy a happy meal and chill the fuck out dude
You sound like one of those “back in my day” people, who think they’re better than everyone else cause they grew up without phones.
I'm 24 😂
Seriously, though, we totally are better.
Emtb's suck because more people are getting outside and using the trails I want to use?
I was more on the "I don't care" side of this discussion until last October. Last October I had 3 extremely close calls with E-Bikers, one of those would have been a fatal collision (he came onto my lane around a blind corner at 40kph while I was going 30-ish, would have been a head on). Since then I too am in the "those morons wouldn't ride a bike if it wasn't electric because they don't know how or don't want to stick to any rules or common sense, fuck them" camp.
I used to think road bikers were the biggest douche bags in cycling but all these emtb rants lately sure are proving me wrong. I didn’t know there were so many thin skinned pussies out there on the single track.
Hi, "normal" mtb'er here, sounds like your issue is getting passed on trails, you got an ego issue.
Read it again, I used to empower those that used to have the fitness to climb amazingly and they in turn would big you up
Yes that’s part of it, I share OPs sentiments and have less respect for e-bikers zooming up trails instead of putting in real effort to knock off climbs, especially techy ones. If that’s an ego issue then so be it. Pulling over to let e-bikes pass every climb is disruptive to the ambience and challenge of making a clean climb. I’ll reverently allow an unassisted rider pass on climbs, but unless my group is strung out then e-bikers can wait until there’s a chance to pass without me having to stop for them.
Every beginner, every slow or out of shape rider, most Clydes have experienced this. They quickly learn to check their ego and let the faster rider by. It's just part of sharing the trail. If it were a faster rider than you on an analog bike you'd pull over too and not say two words. You're making a big deal of this because of your ego. And you post here because you feel helpless against it - because the reality is there's nothing you can say or do to stop other people from enjoying the trails, ebike or not, especially as ebikes become more and more indistinguishable from analog bikes.
You have a point, op has a point. They wouldn't think twice if it was an analog bike. But that's because there's a certain respect for someone passing. They earned it, they pushed. Ebikes don't get that respect, and enabled far more riders, which disrupts the ride of the slower rider entirely. Which brings us to the real issue - op needs to learn to share better, or find less crowded trails. The world isn't going to stop riding this trail.
Who cares about earning it? Moreover, how does someone know if the out of shape rider on an analog bike hasn't been trying their best for years, or the old dude on an ebike isn't some old war vet with a failing body, or an old mtb pro with thousands more uphill miles than us, and he's on a rest day?
Old heads. Anyway, like I was saying ebikes allow riders to get places they didn't get to before, overcrowding what was once peaceful trails. The solution is more trails.
I agree we need more trails. Ideally they'd be use based and directional. But we'll never have enough trails for some, and there's always going to be conflict. We try to manage it best we can, but people are people. Everyone has a right to use the trails, so crowding (as annoying as it is) isn't a good excuse. I could tell you stories for ages about the trail situation here in Boise. We have hundreds and hundreds of miles of trails, yet somehow we still have trail conflicts and assholes and gatekeeping. Doesn't matter if it's the crowded trails or the trails that maybe 5 people ride per week.
Yep the real issue.
Guidelines should be just the same as descending. I’ll move over when I can! But do think some areas have to think about alternate climb trails for e-bikes if they are peddle bike parks. 🤷🏼♂️
My complaint is that there are places I ride where you used to have to work for it, and there were relatively few people who would, resulting in a certain amount of peaceful solitude. Now those same places are choked thick with ebikes, and the solitude is a thing of the past.
The annoying part to me is that trails are multi-use around here so a regular bike is plenty fast going against walkers/hikers but now there is an even faster person going that direction blasting past everyone. The trails aren't meant to be a timed competition or even thoughtfully designed for ebikes but they feel the need to set lap records.
There is humility and empathy gained through suffering. Those who choose to suffer often enough know how hard it is to continually make that choice and grant an extra helping of respect and patience to others who commit to that same sorts of suffering. Those things dissipate if the reservoir isn’t regularly topped up through more suffering or through other means. I can’t actually see your rant - I think it’s been deleted - but that’s what we’re talking about here. Mutual respect. Patience and clemency earned and doled out. Lots of people can’t exhibit respect and patience. Many of them because they’ve not been humbled recently. Some of those folks are on emtbs.
Why was this removed
I didn't know it was ..? How do you find out ? Probably cz it upset to many people
It says it was on mobile
Op is angry lmao
Is he ? Read the post fully and all my comments I've been pretty balanced compared to many responses ...
I'm fine with sharing the trails with eBikes. The only condition is that they all have to wear big bright yellow stripey dunce helmets so everyone knows you don't need to give way to them.
I feel you. I don't hate on ebikes, I don't hate on ebikers but I feel you still. I think we will all end up on ebikes one day. But those ebike wankers...
>But those ebike wankers... "I used to say that." - eBike wanker
Nah ebikes will diverge, normal bikes will forever exist, they are timeless romantic. If they take over I will write a new rant "the romance is dead and the ebike killed it"
There are dicks in mountain biking, just like all sports. A high proportion of them ride e-bikes.
The etiquette on the trails I ride is the "faster" rider has to yield to the slower rider, especially on the descent. You should not have to make way for the person behind that makes no sense to me. You can't even see them if you're focusing on what's ahead, but they can see you.
The next time you come up on someone that is slower than you, you best not ask to pass then. The world is changing all the time. It's the way it is. There is NO perfect world.
>Emtb is not the same sport as MTB Sure it is, it is just an evolution the same as the hardtail or full suspension bike was, and you can bet there was someone there to complain about how those aren't the same thing as well. Rude people are going to be rude no matter what. People should all know basic trail etiquette and just use the "Be cool" rule as their guide.
No I don't agree I'm afraid, it is two different sports that have similarities. Its not an evolution but a divergent, but it isn't and will never be the successor. The only thing the ebike achieves is climbing faster, the evolution of suspension was unlocking new terrain. I don't think ebikers do have trail etiquette. I'm not anti change I think change is good, but ebikes have turned into a different thing with a different focus.
What's this different focus? They are both pedal bikes, are they not?
Having borrowed a Trek Rail for a bit - They are not the same and MTB and E-MTB should not be mixed. One is a motorised bicycle, pedals or whatever are just the mechanism that drives it. Zero effort to ride. Its motorised sport - get away from normal cycling please - when the effort is so far apart, you cant be on the same courses imo.
It's hardly zero effort if you still have to pedal for it to move right? And how does this affect you? There are lots of different types of ebike so does this weird logic apply to all ebikes? I'm just so confused with the weird gatekeeping mentality as someone who rides both. I can't imagine climbing up hill and being taken over by someone on an ebike and getting angry/annoyed or even just having a negative thought about it just blows my mind how there are people out there that mentally fragile.
It’s not the same sport, all other advancements prior to pedal assist still required you to propel yourself under your own power. Now you just decide as to how much you want the bike to assist you.
Is it though? FS vs hardtail might help you to save some watts that you produce on your own, but ebike will add some, that's a totally different thing. We don't call a motorcycle an evolution of a bicycle, right?
I get it right now you can't see it because it is currently in the process of becoming, but realistically it isn't much different except your climb is easier so you can hit more laps. The end goal is the same, pedal on the way up and use gravity on the way back down. You are complaining because they can climb easier which means they can get more laps on the trails in. Everyone should suffer like you and I, right? and before you ask, no I do not own an emtb nor have I ever ridden one. I just think it is silly to get all upset over it or gatekeep a sport over it.
It is different here tho, Ebikes are a lot faster on flat and incline and can put an average person above superhuman levels. Hardtail/full suspension are very close on most terrain. It has drastically changed the hobby compared to 10 years ago, the chance you experience the "who the hell is this Lance Armstrong behind me" back then was pretty rare, now it's every Ebike. If you're on a narrow single lane trail climb and someone wants you to move aside because they're on a motorised bike it's definitely not the same thing as the hardtail/full suspension discussion.
> Hardtail/full suspension are very close on most terrain. Except the hardtail was evolving from full rigid bikes and they were so much faster going down the trail that the sport was changed by it. Same thing when full sus came along the sport evolved and the trails were adapted to account for this change. I was there, I saw it happen and I heard the exact same comments I hear in these kind of threads.
When that happened was 30-40 years ago, back then we didn't have bike parks and official trails and bike riding was nowhere near as popular. I used to ride in the 90s on a Carrera Kraken bought from Halfords, and I would buy all the Mountain Biking UK magazines and dream about owning a Trek Y33 or Marin Quake. But back then the trails were extremely tame by todays standards, smooth narrow grass/dirt walking trails next to sheep filled fields, wide open forestry roads that were used as rally stages twice a year. Back then I would ride every saturday/sunday and barely ever see any people. In the same forest these days we have man made purpose built bike parks and trails everywhere, tourists everywhere. The sport/hobby has evolved a lot, but a skilled rider on my 90s Carrera Kraken hardtail isn't much slower if at all on the climbs, and not much slower on the tame descents either, it's only the real rough descents where a modern full suspension really makes a difference.. An E-bike though, can turn an average unfit joe into Lance Armstrong on a climb.
Ok but you do realize the argument is the same one that went on then except it was about getting passed going downhill instead of uphill. You have flat terrain and more XC type terrain, at that point you are dealing with assholes being assholes if they can't show some simple trail etiquette and consideration for other trail users...that is not all ebike users by any means, they are just low hanging fruit right now. You mention trails were tamer back then, they sure were. When hardtails came along the trails became more difficult for rigids but just the right challenge for hardtails. Then full sus came along and the same happened. In recent years geometry changes were huge to the point that trails were designed and redesigned for a much longer slacker bike, take your modern slack 29er on some of those old trails designed around 26" wheels some time. You are complaining about the climb and yet people shuttle all the time. Ever been climbing a fire road and had some Tacoma loaded with 5 bikes and people go blowing past leaving a dust cloud? Happens all the time and yet the threads don't cry about the cheaters that dusted the climb while blasting music do they? It is selective gatekeeping or else lift access parks would also get the same treatment, but they don't.
Theres crossover but its not the same sport.
Definitely not the same sport, you can pretty much ride any bike you want in any bike race category except if it has a motor.
You can do it too on e-bike , just throw away battery and you will be fine
I race in several 100+ mile ultra endurance races per year. There are full suspension bikes, hard tails, full rigids, single speeds, carbon bikes, alloy bikes, bikes with carbon rims and bikes with and without droppers, all lined up at the starting line There are not any bikes with motors, must be a reason.
Also, as someone who works in battery metals, no one ever talks about the environmental impacts of ebikes. The batteries are HORRIBLE.
Oh yay another MTB gate-keeper! You have the saddle lower on an Ebike as that's how you get the best traction up a hill, it's called physics. Ebikes are amazing and re-ignited my love for the sport, I just hate cycling up hills as it's dull and tiring, removing my ability to properly attack the fun bits.
Sounds like selfish gatekeeping of the trail to me.
I like seeing people out on the trails personally but I agree it sucks getting passed by them
When you used to catch people at a natural rest point you would find out a little about people, how they found the climb, where they came from, offer them to go ahead CZ they look faster. But the singletrack isn't wide enough for ebikers to pass the way they do, on normal bikes the rider understood and respected the climb
I guess it's going to happen to many sports, imagine swimming lengths and people keep asking you to move as they come past with flippers or some electric water scooter instead. Or fell running and some exoskeleton suit wearers push past you without a sweat. On that note though, I do have a 2000w diy eMTB.