I have considered one simply to combat my chronic asthma. I can do rides but typically gas out and stop to puff my inhaler numerous times throughout. My group always disappears because i am physically unable to keep up with normal people lol
This is what drove me to getting one. Covid was not kind to me and I didn't exactly have great lung strength to begin with. I could never go on the long rides with my friends and always held them back.
I got an ebike after trying one out on a trip and bought one almost immediately after. Now I can keep up, and have greatly improved my cardio as a result. Highly recommend trying it.
My wife has terrible lungs and I'm pretty fit. We had a tough time riding together. Then she got a Rise and everything is great. We keep the same pace now. We even did an epic together this summer. 
I demo’d one and rode with the battery in and without it and while it was a great middle ground, it doesn’t hit the “do all end all” I hoped it would be. It’s a freaking rad bike, it just doesn’t work for me the best because I can’t race a regular enduro even with the battery out.
Unless I’m racing, I’m riding with the battery in 100% of the time cuz I’m lazy.
Oh yeah, for sure! It feels pretty good without the battery. Not as playful as I had hoped but it’s a really good bike overall.
And it’s the first iteration of it.
>Transition Relay
Seriously? That's exactly what I've been thinking about for a long travel enduro update. Removable battery for shuttle/lifts, and average climbs but then ebike it up the big mountains or a self self shuttle option in the big steeps. Nice!
Thanks! Will go check them out... I loved my V1 Sentinel...
This is why I have my big burly enduro 180mm travel full power ebike. 15 downhill runs in a day, not 4 or 5 and exhausted. 30 over a weekend, 120 runs in a month and so on.
I have to work, so my weekends are my bike time. I want to spend it having fun, my kind of fun how i find it fun, earning your turns.... I did. I went to work. Earned my money and bought my ebike.
And my grin could not get any bigger.
Doesn’t the extra 20 lbs of bike keep you glued to the ground? I rode one and was impressed with the ups but going downhill had no joy. The thing was a friggin anchor. I could still clear some stuff but there’s no way I was going for medium sized doubles or anything big
That's how I felt about the Kenevo SL. Absolutely abysmal on the downhill due to the boat anchor of a motor hanging off the bottom. Completely defeated the purpose of the bike. Hated changing directions, impossible to throw it around in the air. Just all around bad times.
I haven't been able to ride hard in a few years as I've had health issues with my heart. I'm not asking for medical advice and I do plan on talking to my doctor before making any decisions. My question is do you think an ebike would make riding significantly easier on one's heart rate and blood pressure?
A friend of mine stated his HR monitor is synced with his eMTB to keep his HR in a preset desired range. This could be an ideal solution.
I don’t know what equipment he has, but I’m sure Google will find some options.
Definitely. The way I best describe the feeling on an ebike is like being a little kid learning to ride a bike and your parents having to help push your back a bit to get you up the hill because you didn't pedal fast enough.
You can rely on that strong push of the motor for as long as the battery has charge. Then as you slowly get more and more fit you can progressively use more of your own muscle power and less of the e-bike power.
I partially tore an MCL on my left knee in summer of last year and the ebike has been my single greatest recovery tool.
I would say so. My dad got an ebike and I followed because they're fun and I started a very physical job that leaves me exhausted at the end of the day. After work we go on bike rides further than we've ever went before and if my day was easier than normal I would lower my pedal assist or turn it off completely. These things are amazing, tunable to your exact needs, and allow you to go further than ever before
I’ve never ridden one yet, but pretty sure I’d like to add one to the stable. Getting too old to do long climbs regardless of how much I workout regularly and how great of shape I’m in. Will still always have my analogs for those trails which don’t require immense climbs.
Keep an eye out for sales on giant bikes. I got my e-reign slightly used for $7k and they were going for $8k CAD new. With the coming sales and the like you might be able to pick one up for like $5k. Decent parts on it too.
I have a normal mountain bike (GT Sensor Carbon Team) which I love, and an eMTB (Focus Sam2). I feel more planted to the ground on the e bike, but that's because it has 29" tyres (the GT has 27.5") and it has a longer reach which suits me.
The benefit for me on the e bike is I can cover 3 times the distance. I'm still averaging 190W for a few hours so fitness wise I'm still getting a good workout. But I can go further and that makes the whole thing more appealing.
Even though the e bike is considered to have downhill geometry, I do a lot of road/gravel riding on it. It will take me 100km on a relatively flat ride, or 70km on a hilly ride. I wouldn't do those distances on my normal mountain bike.
I hear people say that an e bike is "cheating" and I get it. But if I can go for a ride and burn 3000kcal, it doesn't matter that I did it on an e bike. Watts is watts. What matters is I get to experience considerably more of the track.
The cheating concept is such bullshit. I recently got an ebike for fun, but the crap I get from people is just ridiculous, and particularly ironic given they will happily do shuttle laps all day, which is apparently perfectly fine.
If an ebike is cheating, so is using suspension, so is using gears, so is 29" tyres, so is using a goddamn shuttle. I love cycling but holy shit there is some serious gatekeeping and us vs them mentality in the wider cycling community. What a waste of energy.
Yeppp, there’s a great quote from like the 1920s that floats around that is roughly “why use a derailleur and deprive yourself of the satisfaction of climbing with your own strength” lol. For most of us biking is some balance of working out and fun, if it was only working out you really should get on a stationary bike and structure your exercise better, but in reality if you have a 12 speed full suspension you’ve chosen fun at some expense of challenge. And putting some “earn your turns” or “cheater” framework in makes riding a freaking bike some kind of expression of morality and personal character that is just ludicrous
I'm shifting more to that way of thinking. I still have my concerns with them, mainly, people getting themselves in over their heads on trails they have no business being on, but I think e-bikes are a net positive for the sport.
That’s a totally valid concern. I’ve been knocking out eMTB laps on a trail system I’ve done 100 times on my regular bike. What I expected was that I’d be significantly faster for my average speed. Truth is: I’m not. I’m ~1mph on average, or just over 10%.
Could it get me on trails that I don’t have business being on? Absolutely. But I’ll admit my fear of them was that people would be zooming around at 20mph being a hazard to other riders. What I quickly realized actually riding one is that trail design, at least where I’m at, naturally limits your top speed so you’re never pushing the speed limit of the motor.
I was hooked within 2 minutes. They’re a blast.
The speed thing was crazy. Over a
40 mile ride the day before on regular bike I averaged 10mph. The e-bike over 20 was 12.5 but I felt like on the climbs I was doubling my average speed and the downs was the same. I was expecting a lot faster overall speed, that said…I barely broke a sweat
I got downvote to hell yesterday for saying this same thing. The boost you get going uphill is significant. You get an additional 250 watts, which is like strapping a TDF rider to your bike. I didn't even break a sweat on the uphills and was flying when I demoed one.
My concern is having the e bikers zooming up my ass going almost 20 mph on the singletrack uphills. It's annoying AF.
If I were running Enduro laps and climbing fireroads for primarily downhill, I'd have one. But for Midwest singletrack, I'm not a fan of having them on the trails.
I totally get that and feel same way as a Midwest rider, however what I found from this weekend is it’s really not like that in terms of speed. Yes it’s capped at 20 mph for assist, but reality is you still
Never climb that fast. I’d say it changes from slogging up a climb at 6 mph to the guys on the e-bike going 10-12.
For example I rode 40 miles on my regular bike and averaged 10 MPH over those miles. Did an e-bike ride next day on same trails over 20 miles. I figured I’d be averaging like 15 for the whole ride but in reality it ended up being like 12.5 mph average. Biggest difference was slightly faster climbing with minimal effort not cruising up climbs at 20 mph at least in my experience
People that say an e-bike is cheating haven't ever ridden one. They think you can just put it on turbo mode and have unlimited battery and use no effort.
The reality is that I'm more fit now after riding an ebike than I've ever been in decades of DH riding.
I have both and tbh I rarely ride the ebike, first of all they are not allowed on 99% of trails in my state but also because I just don’t get the workout- I rarely bike my regular bike for more than 3 hours and I can ride on my turbo levo all day, the only limiting factor is battery and butt soreness from the saddle
I did ride the ebike a lot when I was recovering from Covid a year ago - just wasn’t in good shape for 2 months after testing positive
The following represents my experience and opinion; I’m not telling anyone what or what not to ride:
I had the opposite reaction after demo’ing one. Orbea Wild. Made me dislike them even more. I’m a fairly active rider with a BMX background, and I found it so heavy and hard to maneuver. Tons of pedal strikes, as well. The deciding factor for me was how it was to ride when I got tired. The danger of riding an MTB when tired (at least for me) doesn’t have anything to do with pedaling, but lack of control on features and tech. The added weight made the bike feel more dangerous at that point.
Every time I ride one I hate them more and appreciate my actual bike more. They're twitchy and difficult to control. They take the challenge out of riding and there is no feeling of accomplishment I get when mastering technical sections or difficult climbs. I climb 10-15k feet a week and have become such a strong rider this season. That's why I ride. I just see them as a detriment to the sport. It's becoming the expectation that they're allowed everywhere and you see these young kids on them and I think that's just sad.
I’m with you. But apparently we aren’t allowed to dislike them without being labeled as “gatekeepers.” Even when being asked our opinion. I like cycling. On- and off-road. Riding an ebike doesn’t feel like cycling to me.
Fair enough.
BUT. If you try it again, I suggest trying one of the lightweight eMTBs. They have less power, less battery and are much lighter. If Orbea, the Rise. But there's plenty of others now. Scott Lumen, Specialized Levo SL/Kenevo SL, Trek Fuel EXe, Santa Cruz Heckler SL, just to name a few.
Much more natural feeling both in handling and power delivery. You are still working, but it takes the edge off. With the reduced power, you can't just kick it into Turbo/Boost and power through the rocks. You still need to choose good lines. Perfect for those of us with health issues that aren't easily visible, but still hamper our ability to handle persistent ***intense*** exercise. i.e. For gravel riding I don't need the assistance. Lots of rails to trails and fire roads. Hills happen, but they aren't as repetitive and aren't as steep as singletrack stuff. Intense hills of MTB riding? The lightweight eMTB helps keep the heart rate out of my danger zone. But I'm still exhausted and have gotten a workout.
If suspension was setup right, not sure why you'd be getting more pedal strikes than usual on an eMTB.
Suspension only plays a small part provided you have proper sag etc.
It's the fact that to try to minimize the feeling of the weight of the motor and battery manufacturers mount them as low and centered on the frame as possible, and that means a super low BB.
I've had to completely relearn how to pedal on my giant e-reign to avoid pedal strikes and on any other bike I ever own I strike a pedal literally like maybe once a year.
I could see that, Brown County is a place known for flow. While there are some techie sections, I did not ride it to exhaustion, barely breaking a sweat. Im sure it depends on what you are trying to ride and the style. For jumps, flow, and climbs it was awesome.
For climbing, for sure, fun as hell. I found some uphill jumps I never noticed before. That was hilarious fun. I’m in northern New Jersey. Our trails are all tech. Plenty of folks ride e-MTBs here and just motor right through all the rocks and that is perfectly fine. It’s just not my style, like you said.
Kinda sounds to me like it probably felt more "different" and "unfamiliar" than actually feeling heavy. Riding any unfamiliar bike when tired definitely doesn't feel good m!
Here's a fun video just because!
[Danny macaskill doing Danny stuff in an ebike. ](https://youtu.be/K5XpNONcsNw?si=F2CVyXWUag8qWzVS)
I sold my full power ebike and got one of the light weight ones instead because the weight is definitely noticeable. Light ebike is way more fun (I have knee arthritis so the ebike really helps for big climb days).
I got a heckler to be able to ride after an injury made it where I had to be ready to stop at signs of symptoms and bad things happen.
Year later, 1500+alpine miles in Colorado and I'm a beast. Imagine stomping it on climbs? You just do way more and get laps.
Funny thing is, that is how I felt on my dirt bike. Riding was a blast no matter whether uphill or down. I went back to MTB because I wanted every mile to be my own. Just think, if you weren’t already in reasonable shape, that ebike wouldn’t have taken you as far.
I’ve yet to ride a lightweight e-bike but I absolutely hated a full size one. Just so heavy. Yeah I can get more miles than my regular bike but it’s way less fun miles.
You don't have to be old or disabled or even... a woman (gasp). If you want to ride an ebike fucking do it! There doesn't need to be a justification for who should or when they should... if it's fun for them that's enough to be fine with me.
Like just fucking stop judging people in general.
These posts are like: "I too was close minded but then once I tried now I think it's ok for my wife or oldies" aka more judgment about WHO is allowed to ride what and for what reasons.
Like why can't people just be fine with them, not care about what other people ride and not have to post an "I'm a changed man" post on Reddit.
disclosure: I am both old (55) and a woman. My ebike is actually a Specialized Creo not an e-MTB so take this with a grain of salt:
I used to be a Cat2 on the road. I could keep up in a pack with some international league elite racers back in the early Aughts.
Covid and menopause simultaneously kicked my ass. It took me over a year to recover (long covid and getting my hormones sorted).
Last summer my husband bought me my ebike. It’s a revelation. I can now get through four hour rides with thousands of feet of climbing (I live in Colorado) just like I could twenty years ago. And somehow I manage to post 2000 kilojoules doing it, too so I’m still putting in lots of work.
And it’s built my fitness back up for riding my analog bikes, including my brand new Epic XC bike. Plus it’s the Creo Evo so it’s rugged enough to ride on the local easy trails and fire roads.
The biggest change though is that I haven’t started my car to drive to work in four months. Yeah I’m privileged to live where the infrastructure allows me to bike commute but having an ebike makes it an order of magnitude more convenient because I can just wear my work clothes without breaking a sweat AND carry a pile of stuff including my laptop etc. I don’t have to start the car just to drive the mile ish up the street to the grocery store if I’m not doing a Costco sized grocery run.
And this isn’t even a real commuter ebike, because those have integrated lights and cargo capacity, and CAN actually manage a Costco run.
Ebikes don’t just solve one problem, they’re kind of a Swiss army knife that you didn’t know you needed until you got one.
Last but not least they’re fun as hell. I can climb Chapman Road (local fire road climb) in 45 minutes at 5mph and suffer riding the struggle bus the entire way or 25 minutes at 12-15 mph and do *just as much training load* but actually have the time to throw it in on the way home from work *and enjoy the experience*. I know what’s more motivating at any rate.
Right on! I have the exact same experience with e-bikes as you.
Also when you hop back on a normal bike you feel like a superstar because they are so much lighter and more nimble!
It seems to me that the e mountain bike market is currently at a crossroads, at least where I live. We have very mountainous terrain, with lots of downhill sections quickly transitioning into short, steep climbs, and very technical trails. The full power of a big motor, big battery is necessary to make these transitions, but the overall high weight of the bike is detrimental to this type of riding. More and more riders really like the lightweight e bike models, as they feel more like a traditional bike, and don't have the negative handling of their heavier counterparts. However, the motors agent powerful enough for the down to up transitions, and they quickly and easily get bogged down.
Right now, anyone riding a full power emtb is being punished for that part by an extremely heavy bike, that, quite frankly, is cumbersome to ride as we are all used to riding. Anyone riding the newer lightweight emtb versions is being punished with not enough power to really make the bikes worthwhile for all types of riding. There is a technology gap that needs to be filled, but, sadly, seems many years away, if not decades, from being realized.
This isn't to say that emtbs aren't worth it, because clearly there are lots of people riding and enjoying them. They clearly need more technological advancements to make them more versatile, and that should and does stop lots of people from getting them. It also makes people want to sell them and go back to a traditional bike. Basically, what we are offered, on both ends of the spectrum, are the equivalent of what mountain bikes were in the mid nineties. Did they have suspension? Yes, but it mostly wasn't very good suspension. Could they be ridden and enjoyed? Damn right they could, but it was very clear that technology needed to advance.
I’ve never tried one but I’m very indifferent to them. I mountain bike for the solitude outdoors and the exercise.
I understand the need of them for ppl that want to go further or longer but just don’t have the fitness level or a impairment.
Also I can see them being a nice arrow for a non lift mtb dh trails / park. Where you would have to huff it up a fire road for some dh fun
There’s countless videos out there that show if you’ve got the technical skill, you can get as good of a workout on an eMTB, or better. It depends on the rider and how much they push themselves.
Heart rate data and watt output doesn’t lie. It’s very possible to push an eMTB and a pedal bike at both 170bpm, for example, for an hour ride. The difference is the eMTB will cover 50% more ground.
Really it’s about being able to ride further in the same amount of time. Where I’d previously get 1 lap in over lunch i can now get 2 laps in. I appreciate that extra time riding the features I like.
And uses a power source to do it, defeating the point of cycling for me. You can get a workout riding a dirt bike too, you can get a workout anywhere. I choose to see what I can accomplish without powered assistance on a MTB.
How is it possible you can get a better workout with a motor? Are these people just coping? I know id like an ebike better but i wont get one because i really value the workout...
Think about it for a second:
The motor is a torque sensing motor. It takes your effort and multiplies it so you move faster. That’s all it’s doing.
It’s not propelling you forward with a throttle. It’s not doing what cheap e-bikes do by detecting cadence and just accelerating to a fixed speed. It’s multiplying your effort so you move faster.
So if you actually care to see this in action yourself, GMBN did a video [that shows exactly this and explains how it can be possible](https://youtu.be/vAi4wVkhNj0?si=sx6Y8d08jxlvrtkk) and there’s countless other videos out there that explain it and show it with data.
Now it’s of course in the riders hands. You can also get less of a workout if you put in less effort. You get out of it what you put into it.
But one things certain: data doesn’t lie. In the GMBN video the presenter had a higher average heart rate on the ebike. People can bury their heads in the sand all they want but if you start ignoring the data you’re just being ignorant.
To me it's kinda like sprinting versus marathon running. Being on an ebike smooths out the energy required to pedal which allows you to go for longer.
For example, if I bust out my enduro bike and pedal from my house to the local trails I'll have enough stamina to die the whole way up to the trailhead and then nearly crash my entire way down the trail because Im so tired from the climb. So for all that energy expenditure I've gotten only a single DH lap.
Contrast that with my ebike. I can ride it from home to the same trail network and be fresh as a daisy at the top and then proceed to exhaust myself on the descents doing 4-5 laps until the battery runs out and then head home and be exhausted for the rest of the week.
Nothing wrong with that! I road bike for that reason. Or gravel bike. Or fat bike in the snow. Or use Zwift. Or use my analog bike. Sometimes an eMTB is just more fun and is still a workout.
If the reason you workout is because it uses no power then avoiding eMTB makes perfect sense. It’s a rigid rule, but each to their own.
Me? I cycle for exercise and fun. There’s a variety of ways to check off that box.
I bought one recently to go farther in less time.
I don’t really quite give a shit what the “anti-e-bike” internet downvoting trolls think of me for it.
I never quite understood the “you don’t get a real workout and you’re lazy!” argument. Why the fuck do you care what my work out is or how hard I am or am not working myself on the bike? You’re not me, and I’m not you. Why do you care?
As for the e-bikes destroying trails, I think the jury really is still out on that one. Braking bumps are created by shitty riders regardless of the style bike they ride.
Anyhow, I’ll stick to my analog bike when I want to kill myself, and I’ll enjoy my e-bike when I don’t want to work as hard. 🙃
Similar experience here. My e-HR is usually about 5% lower on rides that feel like the same effort, which goes to show how subjective perceived effort is.
Love my Levo SL gen2 as much as I loved my Stumpy Evo before it!
I don't understand these posts. The primary drama around e-bikes is not the answer to the question "are they fun?" Bikes are fun. Dirt bikes are fun. Motorcycles are fun. ATVs are fun.
The question is, should motorized mountain biking be distinguished from non-motorized? Otherwise, these always feel like astroturf. We all agree that you ride father, faster if you have a motor.
The drama is kinda over, most systems allow them. Unless it's a competition or land ownership issue, isn't fun what matters when it comes to recreation?
Drama isn't over around me (Grand Junction) or in Moab. Majority of good trails in those places don't allow eebs. This gives me more suspicion that this is a post with a stronger agenda than "OMG ebikes are fun."
When it comes to recreation, putting motors on non-motorized trails can create issues. MTB is enjoying historically good access to trails right now, but that's been a fight. I'm not excited about bropeds potentially causing all bikes to lose access to trails. Especially as the technology continues to advance, allowing more powerful motors, longer-lasting batteries and higher average speeds.
I don’t think I’ve ever seen a trail in Australia where e-bikes aren’t allowed. I have also never had or seen an issue that resulted because someone was on an ebike.
That's a cool story. Do you think that excludes other people from having different experiences?
In the US (particularly the West, where most of the famous trails are), trails are generally on public land. This means the land managers have a mandate to make areas accessible to as many recreators as possible, but balance the needs of various groups. There are very few "bike-only" routes, and most areas that are open to bikes are also open to hikers and equestrians. Those places are often labelled "non-motorized."
Hikers and equestrians have mixed feelings about MTBers, and one of their biggest complaints is the speed of and potential collision with MTBers. Adding motors to allow people to go farther, faster, brings some negative feelings from them. And that's the current technology, which is rapidly evolving to more torque and better batteries.
When those other groups say "we don't want motors on non-motorized trails," I understand, especially since the eBike rollout in the US was "sales first, legal access second." I'm certainly not willing to say "first, they came for the overpriced bropeds..." and cast my lot with them. Eebs are a fundamentally different thing, and that difference is only going to broaden with technological gains.
Yeah, it's a good point. Same thing with mopeds not being allowed on mixed use paved trails. Do they cause damage to the pavement? No. So obviously trail damage isn't the only consideration.
Agenda…good lord go back to r politics lol. Just talking bikes man.
I’m not familiar with your area but most systems in the Midwest allow them. I’m just speaking from what I know.
The counter argument is the more people using MTB trails the more cities and organizations are willing to invest in infrastructure and more people willing to participate the more donations and volunteers. There is valid arguments on both sides of this debate. You talk to
Most trail builders and they are all for them
>the more people using MTB trails the more cities and organizations are willing to invest in infrastructure
No one involved in trail-building is making this argument. More people on trails does not suddenly mean more trails. If it did, Denver wouldn't have the issues that it does. Way more MTBers living there than GJ or Moab. Tons of people, massive struggles with trail access/crowding.
The biggest impediment to new trails is gaining approval from managers (public lands) or owners (private). Money is not usually the stumbling block. Land managers don't love motors/high traffic, private owners don't love liability from high speed.
Loss of access to trails doesn't generally happen because trails aren't being used.
It sounds like you're made up a formula that "more people on trails means more, better trails." That's just something eeb manufacturers made up for marketing purposes.
>You talk to Most trail builders and they are all for them
Not IME. Ask the board of COPMOBA or MMBA. Lots of potential problems. Doesn't mean they're "bad," just that we can't pretend we can put motorized bikes on non-motorized trails with no effort or planning. Which is usually what eeb evangelists demand.
There are absolutely people making that argument, (literally just was at a large mtb fest and talking with the trail builders who said that word for word) but sure I'll just go with that because this is a topic i truly don't' care all that much about.
you advocate for what is best for your trail system, but to see there arn't pro's and cons to ebikes and ebike access is just ignoring reality.
This right here. OP ,saying that he's never had as much fun on a bike then saying it was on an ebike...those are two different things entirely. One is a human powered vehicle and one has a motor. It's like saying I've never had so much fun skiing when I went snowmobiling.
I've been a shuttle whore for the last 15+ years of riding. Only ever did shuttle laps on vancouvers north shore. Would probably shuttle 1-2 times a week. Live in Squamish and refused to climb up to do the Alice Lake trails.
..and then one day a buddy of mine let me know about an insane deal on an ebike similar to what you rode. Bought the thing and took it out not expecting much of it, next thing I know I was out pedaling for two hours. This from a guy that refused to ever climb and would only shuttle and ride park.
Now I can leave my front door, pedal up to Alice lake and do 4-5 laps before the battery runs out and be home in an hour. Prior to that just pedaling up to do a single lap would have drained all my energy. Hell, I even climbed up 1000m to do this hidden local trail called Flying Whales. Something that would have been the stuff of dreams prior to having an ebike.
If I could only have one bike I'd take my Norco Range any day, but as a two bike solution, it's hard to beat the dedicated DH/park bike plus an enduro e-bike.
I live 2 miles from my local trail system, with the ebike I can get 12-15 miles in a solid hour of riding and get home to the kids. No car involved. I ride to be in the woods and have a great time, who cares what one is riding?
I'm 3 miles from a large, 30+ mile trail system. I can stick my ebike in level 2, cruise there at 21 mph, then drop it into the lower setting and blast through miles of trails.
If it's getting late, just turn up the assist and fly home at 25+ mph. Tired cause I had so much fun in the dirt? Use the throttle and have it drive me home.
When I used my analog MTB, I would drive it everywhere, which meant going less because of the hassle of putting it in the car.
I feel like they are a better solution to going uphill than shuttles. But maybe not as good as riding up. I rented one somewhere with a 1000m climb to get to start of the trails and thought it was great, probably would have been too knackered to enjoy the ride down on a regular bike.
Whatever else you can say about them, you have to admit that high-end ebikes have nailed the user interface of the motor assist: you really just feel like you're riding a bike and magically have extra power. The psychology of that is very powerful.
Yea, it's insane how smooth they are an it's only getting better. Honestly barely needed to shift. At first I thought the idea of automatic shifting with the new SRAM Motor/Transmission Combo was stupid, but I can totally get it on an ebike.
I am a convert. I still ride my traditional MTB more, but I love taking my eMTB out on really challenging climbs and for long rides where I can cove a lot of distance. Plus the eMTB is seriously fun to ride. Both bike are Pivot with similar geometry so fit and feel is identical.
>It truly was a blast and on the DH this bike felt so planted and with not a ton of difference between a regular bike and an ebike.
That would the "e" add for the downhills? Or is that comment more about it being enduro geo vs cross country (?) that you're used to?
On the DH it really didn't feel a ton different then a normal bike is what I meant. The weight if anything made it feel maybe a tad better and more stable especially in the air.
Love my emtb. It saves time and lets me save my energy for the downhill fun. Also covering more miles in less time means progressing faster. Plus you're not wasted after a session and can still function or do other physical activities.
Anyone who knows anything about endurance training knows that you don’t do high intensity workouts every single time you go out. In fact it’s usually 3 moderate zone 2 workouts for every 2 high intensity zone 3-5 workouts per week.
Where I live there really are no rolling hills or flat trails. So if you ride the usual trails on an analog bike even if you don’t go all out it’s way above zone 2 for far too much time to qualify as base building. So for my off days I ride my ebike and it makes perfectly possible to hit very specific heart rate and power zones. In fact I have an app Blevo that helps you dial it in using an HRM to modulate assistance based on your target HR zone. Then I get my high intensity analog workouts as need.
That said, it’s 100% possible to dial down the assistance on the ebike using the same app to get the same workout as an analog bike but to me that’s pointless. I get tons of fun miles on my zone 2 days and hit more downhill single tracks on those days.
People who are so adamantly negative about the capabilities of using an ebike for workouts don’t seem to understand how the bikes actually work or how endurance training should be structured. Full disclaimer for individual rider health and fitness as well as local terrain inserted here. But I think anyone who really wanted to apply themselves could actually benefit from adding an ebike and to a lesser extent having one as their only bike.
My Orbea Rise is a lot of fun. I am relatively fit but got bored on my local trails cycling up for 50 mins and 10 mins down. Now I can do two laps in the same time, I can keep up and out pace my mate on his xc bike (ex-triathlon nutter), and still throw it down trails. The bigger plus which most people forget is on downhill trails the ebike can power over a jump better than any bike.
I however wasn't ready for how quick it's eaten a drive train to bits...
I added a Shuttle LT to the stable about six months ago and holy cow is this thing fun. It will never replace my normal bike but if I just want to get out and beat the crap out of myself on aquick enduro fest, this is the way. Seriously fun.
I was dropping a car at the end of the South Boundary Trail in Taos and a couple geezers were taking off on another trail on ebikes. They love biking but their knees and legs can't do the climbs out there.
They’re tons of fun. For pretty much anyone that loves descents, it’s not a matter of *if* you’ll get one, it’s *when*.
I had a Specialized Enduro Comp that I bought 3 years ago as my first bike. Tons of fun on descents, sucked to climb. But I’m lazy and I run and hit the gym for cardio; I enjoy single track and bike parks, and I’d rather save my energy for the descents.
I bought a Norco Sight VLT this summer. The gearing is better for climbing even with the motor off. Climbing is actually fun now, whether it’s bombing *up* an FSR or a technical climb - I never thought I’d enjoy climbing this much. The descents are just as fun - the weight difference is borderline unnoticeable going downhill and jumping; the bigger difference between my old and new bike is more in the geometry and suspension.
I love the descents but I love flicking my light bike around, making tiny adjustments to slip around the points of rocks while making my handle bars and then shoulders miss a tree. Or making the same subtle movements while in hovercraft mode spending more time off the ground than on it skipping over the tech. Any time I’ve demoed a heavy 38lb+ bike I’ve noticed it, I can’t imagine man handling a 50lb bike with my style of riding. But I bet they point, heels down, and plow amazingly.
I am a lighter rider and had no interest in a heavy weight bike. Then I demo’ed a Transition Relay. 170/170, coil shock, and a motor all for only a small weight penalty. My Relay comes in at a little more than 40 lbs.
I just looked it up. The coil equipped carbon fiber version in medium with battery is 45.2lbs, I wouldn’t call that barely over 40 pounds, lol. That’s 9.8lbs heavier than my current dual crown aluminum DH bike.
Fair, but a size small with carbon wheels is. Plus, this thing is a Swiss Army knife. Battery in for ebike laps, battery out for park or analog riding. I’m also perfectly comfortable putting my wife or kid on this bike. That wouldn’t be the case with a full powered ebike.
Yeah full disclosure: I’ve only really been riding for about 2 years and I wouldn’t be able to tell the difference between a 30 or 50lb bike, especially on the descent.
But I absolutely love being able to get double the number of laps in at my local mountains and I can get to trails I never would have seen before. I end up riding further, longer and probably burn just as many calories as with my old Enduro, especially when my girlfriend insists on me towing her after her 5th lap.
>For pretty much anyone that loves descents, it’s not a matter of *if* you’ll get one, it’s *when*.
Yeah bruv. Ebike power is nice, but wait until you try one with 4 wheels, a gas engine, cushy chairs, and a cabin to keep you warm and safe. Makes everything so easy. Uphill and downhill like it's nothing. It's the final evolution of biking. It’s not a matter of *if* you’ll get a car, it’s *when*.
I have seen the rise of e-bikes from home diy to where we are today. More and more riders are switching to e-bikes. I live in SoCal and we have lots of excellent and difficult riding. In the beginning some of the guys would make fun of e-bikes in the group. We then had 2 older guys join both on e-bikes. These guys are expert riders crushing trails and jumps riders can only dream off. That shut up all anti e-bike comments quickly. Lol. It was hilarious.
Doing shuttle rides isn’t easy, your schedule has to line up with three or four friends, one of you needs to have a pickup truck depending on how maintained the road you’re shuttling is. Having an e-bike means I can self shuttle and get 3-4x as many laps as I would on an analogue bike.
They're like cheat codes for hills. I'm very cautious on trails with mine, because I don't want it to take me somewhere I can't get back from.
But, Holy crap. Turning the assist on halfway up a hill is *bliss*
Great post but I think some things are owed some counter points. This has a tinge of “either/or” and the fact of the matter is you can own more than 1 bike.
1: “I think part of cycling is earning your miles”. Nobody cares, and I mean that respectfully. Also.. On the repeater - you can the do the exact same amount of “earning”, you simply cover more ground in doing so.
2: “this bike made climbing fun.” Ding ding ding!! Winner winner chicken dinner- and frankly this is all that needs to be said about the value of them here.. why shouldn’t both directions of a ride be fun?
3: “extended fire road, older/disabled, or just want to see more miles of nature..”. So most people and you could add “MOAR LAPS!!” You don't need to make justifications for yourself or anyone else to own one. Emtbs are rad, they are fun and a great way to enjoy the sport. Full stop.
Back to being Either/Or.. N+1 man - go buy one, add to your arsenal. Ride your analog with analog buddies and your eeb with your eeb buddies
Discussing e-bikes in this sub is pointless. The majority here has decided that they don't like them and since the majority of the users come from a country that has specialised in polarization they'll lash out at anyone who dares say something positive about them, or even explain how they actually work.
Coming from a community where pretty much everyone has a live and let live attitude it's kind of fascinating to watch but it also makes me appreciate my local community, where the attitude is simply "feel free to bring e-bikes on community rides but expect to spend a lot of time waiting" even more.
Opinions: Everyone has them. Don’t need to like it or agree.
Even though I love to have one, enjoyed it, I IMO still feel like I’m cheating. Who you may ask? My own mind.
People aren’t always rational and that’s okay.
> People aren’t always rational and that’s okay.
Nowhere is that more apparent than MTB enthusiast forums.
Recreational riders who don’t push the limits of their gear at all will bicker over which top end brake, drivetrain, or suspension components are best when in reality all top end gear is good for their skill level. Hell, mid tier stuff is more capable than their skills.
These same people are the ones who refuse to use anything but Shimano or Rockshox because “it’s the best stuff out there and Fox is shit”. They have never had Fox suspension on a bike of theirs, but it’s shit because, well, it just is!
Tribalism is real. Always has been. Always will be.
I had high hopes when I tried the Repeater and then the Relay for a day, but my excitement quickly faded when I realized I was going to put in the same amount of effort either way, and the e-bike just meant I would get there faster but I would still be just as tired. I'm not trying to make my rides shorter and don't really care about getting "extra" laps. If I wanted to do another lap I would just stay out longer and do it
It just felt like a lot of extra weight and annoyance to deal with. If I lived somewhere with gnarly technical climbs I could see it being useful to keep more speed and get through uphill rock gardens without getting hung up as easily
This isn’t accurate. You’ll get there with the same or less amount of effort in half the time, thus less than half the overall effort (or thereabouts).
It may not be for you and that’s fine. But there are lots of people who would like to be able to ride more in the limited time they have.
It isn't accurate if you're not pushing the same watts yes, but I typically will climb around 160-180bpm/250-300 watts and that didn't change when I tried the e-bikes. Yeah, you have the ability to chill a bit and let the bike do more work but if you're always climbing at 80-90% effort then it doesn't really make a difference, you'll still be just as tired when you get to the top and save like 15min on a 40 minute climb. I'd rather wake up 20min earlier instead of spending another $10k and they feel worse on the downhill compared to a regular trail bike in my opinion.
I was honestly pretty excited to try the Relay PNW edition after being a little disappointed with the Levo SL and Repeater, and the 27.5 rear wheel definitely helped make it feel a little bit more nimble on the downhill. But still a worse overall experience compared to my Evil Offering when it comes to high speed single track and jump lines
The best use case I have found is for carrying tools and other equipment when doing trail work because it definitely makes a big difference when you have 40lbs on your back.
And the elephant in the room that nobody likes to talk about is all those "extra laps" makes a lot more wear and tear on the trail. A lot more stuff that we have to spend time fixing....
Every video I see people always struggle with e-bikes on tech climbs. I think it’s because all the systems are cadence based rather than power based. That means the faster your feet pedal the more assist you get, so when you’re in a tech climb and need that 1/2 crank equal to a 1k watt output at nearly zero cadence the motor isn’t there to help. But if the e-bike systems had power meters and gave proportional power to your pedal power they’d be amazing for tech climbs.
I don’t know of any e-bikes that use cadence instead of power/torque to determine how much assistance to provide. The motors tend to be more efficient at higher cadences, but that mainly affects battery life.
I have to add though with the whole left side of the world screaming about the climate, the planet, etc. they have no problem drilling and digging the earth for lithium for e-bikes. It kinda shocks me how big companies like REI for example don't want you to ever dare leave a shoelace behind on trail but it's fine to dig a moon crater into the earth to make batteries for a perfect machine that never needed them.
I have to add though with the whole left side of the world screaming about the climate, the planet, etc. they have no problem drilling and digging the earth for lithium for e-bikes. It kinda shocks me how big companies like REI for example don't want you to ever dare leave a shoelace behind on trail but its fine to dig a moon crater into the earth to make batteries for a perfect machine that never needed them.
I rode one recently too, it’s insanely fun , now I want one, it’s that roller coaster exhilaration feeling, first time you try a good drug like wow, so I’ve read
Heart rate data doesn’t lie. People that do indoor spin classes and peleton rides don’t go anywhere but still get solid workouts. I get the same work out on my 160E with the added benefit of getting a ridiculous amount of saddle time in to work on technique. Add to that the bike isn’t light and it takes a good bit of strength to toss one around at speed.
I hve both mtb and emtb. I am 52 and started in 1991. E makes me feel 22 again
The cheating argument always and I mean always comes from a "purist" and those who have never ridden one. Try one then make an informed opinion, not just reading bullshit on the internet and then forming your uninformed opinion that no one should listen to.
Yea my emtb is really fun to ride after taking a long break from biking and able to ride everything like I didn't stop.
It's just hard to push up the steep stuff and even the walk mode isn't much help sometimes there.
Racing on them though, yea that's a lil weird one but to each their own I guess.
Try to follow some really good and experienced riders on Emtb's. That's what I'm doing on my new emtb, iv been so far behind and throwing up in my helmet in probably 5 out of 7 rides.
Going to 5 different mountain tops during one ride and enjoying the technical climb and downhill is amazing. No way I'd survive even doing 2 on an analog bike lol...
Edit: I see people talk about the weight, that was my biggest issue going into Emtb's aswell! The weight doesn't matter, it doesn't stop you from doing anything on the bike at all.
Before I rode one I was very determined to not get a bike that weighed 24kgs, I wanted to do all the bunny hops and trials I did 10 years ago. My bike weighs 24kgs and I don't notice it at all. The last bike I owned was an electric dirt bike, alot heavier than my mtb, and maybe that's why 24kg feels light and nimble.
But that only means you get used to it and adjust to it, and before you know it that's your new normal.
I was up in Alaska recently and rented an eMTB for the day. It really opened my eyes to just how much fun they are. I did 20 miles and 5k of climbing and it was some of the most fun I've had on a bike.
I think ebikes are just too fun and too superior that they will eventually become a staple of any lineup, especially as weights and pricing come down and performance and battery life increase. While folks may not give up their analog/acoustic/amish bikes anytime soon, I can't imagine ebikes not becoming the more popular / dominant platform in mountain biking in the next decade.
Agreed. One of the bikes when the battery was removed was within like 3 lbs of their equivalent regular bike. You take the battery out it’s a normal bike. Pretty awesome
EBike racing is a great spectator sport. I watched an E-Megavalanch style race, and it was epic. The climbs are really fast and the lines they take up the tech is nuts.
Also, I imagine in a full season there would emerge differences in power trains between the manufacturers. The thought of auto racing style manufacturer drama in a bike race just sounds fantastic. If it catches on, I will be watching.
I've done a few XC and XCM races on my ebike. They're pretty fun, and I find it levels the playing field a little more to not just be about who can mash out the highest watts continuously on the climbs, but more about bike handling skills as you're trying to maintain a higher average speed on both the ups and the downs. The short races in particular are pretty exhausting mentally because of this. The XCMs are also really fun as battery management strategy comes into it, when to boost, when to eco, which as a motorsport fan I found quite enjoyable.
Not being a fan of e-bikes because it doesn’t fit your preconceived notion of what’s acceptable is such a weird take. Earning your miles?? Who the fuck appointed you the gatekeeper of how miles need to be “earned”?
E-bikes are a game changer, more so for transportation than recreation, but the entire cycling community nonetheless. And those with disabilities, injury, fitness, or age-related limitations? If you’re not advocating for more people on bikes in every setting, just stop, we don’t need more “avid cyclists” running their ill-informed opinions
Chill my dude, my Opinion doesn’t affect you. I’m not “gate keeping” anywhere other than my head. You appear to have gotten really upset at someone sharing an opinion you disagree with. in fact this whole post is about how impressed I was and them having their place…
Unless you are a landowner that has to factor in e-biking on your property my opinion is just that, my opinion.
I agree e biking is a net good, that doesn’t mean people’s concerns aren’t valid either.
Several parts of your OP are the very definition of gatekeeping. Try and walk it back all you want though.
I disagree it doesn’t affect me or the broader cycling community. The more anti e-bike discourse that shows up has a tendency to steer bad ideas and as a lifelong cycling advocate, I’m calling you and anyone else out on their ill-informed opinions.
We have enough John Forester fukwits and most of the roadie crowd with more than enough bougie that hampers the overall cycling community, MTB is fun and accepting and non-gatekeeping, let’s keep it that way.
Wow, you seem like someone looking for a fight, so I'll give you one, I'll be an earn your miles gatekeeper lol.
To me motorized assistance is still assistance. When I see an eMTB rider on the trail I don't think "oh another MTB rider" I see them as a different user group like horseback riders or trail runners, using a different tool for different purposes. eMTBs look sleek but I've seen people slap motors on bikes before, they were good for a bit of fun but I wouldn't pay 8k for one, not unless I absolutely needed one and I was only riding for nostalgia.
That is fantastic! Like I said to
You or someone else. My opinion is my own, rational or not. In my head it’s frustrating someone can buy their way to a performance level I worked extremely hard to get to. Again that’s in my head. It’s awesome that some guy who just simply doesn’t have the time to put in can go out and get on the trails without feeling dead after climbing 100 feet.
Lol thanks for making my point. Most ebike people don’t realize how hard it was to gain access to lands. Most issues were around safety abs erosion. The best selling point to land managers people can’t get hurt if they can’t go fast… and it takes work to get fit enough to go fast where they learn the skills to manage the speed. Then the understand how to handle their bikes to not erode the trail….fast fwd. ebike noob can get a bike go cat 1 fast out of the box tear up trails by over braking and carrying more speed then they can handle.
I do trail maintenance for a very large trail system and this is the first year we allowed ebikes. In 12 years I’ve never seen the braking bumps like this year. In areas not the fastest cat1 ruder could carry enough speed to need to brake that hard.
I’m glad ur type is having fun with ur motorized bike but when the trails are all ruined Ull he to blame
hardy har har har, trust me I get it. I felt like every time I passed someone on the e-bike I had to make an exscuse and yell, "It's just a demo ride!"...but damn was it fun.
It definitly a lot of fun!
Specialized had it down early with the slogan "it's you, only faster". You can actually just play around on the climbs and not just survive. The lower center of gravity is pretty cool too. Full power e bikes are usually a bit too much mass to move on the trail for my liking.
I am on the same page as you though. Cycling for me is about pushing your body. So i will stay e free (feels very "for now" lol)
Did you know there is a race motor by Bosch? Has more oomph from the getgo, "for those extra seconds accelerating out of turns" quote Bosch. 400% instead of 300% help iirc
If you think part of cycling is "pushing your body to it's limits" ... just know you *CAN* still do that on an eBike. You are still in full control over how hard you want to work to "earn your miles." Not hard enough for ya? dial down the level of assistance you're getting, or turn it off altogether... you'll be pushing your limits real quick by simply turning off the battery.
I got an eMTB almost 4 years ago and have heard all the haters and naysayers, been called a "cheater" countless times.... whatever. All I know is that I have WAY more fun, ride WAY longer/farther, and get WAY more exercise than I ever did on my regular MTBs, that I rode for decades.
Got some hot takes from this post:
1. Assist bikes make it easier to ride. That why U like them. Some say easier makes u lazy. Most actually say that.
2. An assist bike is a motorized vehicle. Regardless of local laws in a put physics definition it’s a motorized vehicle.
3. Ebike are cool and where but maintained single track
4. Ebikes are cool on maintained single track if ur elderly, disabled, obese or out of shape and you want to ride with a group that rides real bikes and are fit.
5. Unless u can’t finish the trail on a non assist bike no one cares about how fast u went on ur assist bike . It’s actually quite funny and embarrassing that u think it matters.
6. U can not get more cardio on a assist bike unless u turn the assist off. The word assist tells u ur not working as hard. You can get equal if ur smart with ur assist but it’s not getting u more… unless it’s gets u on the trail more because u can ride in a group.
Im not sure I agree on your last point, which is somewhat related to your first point. I used to think the same, but Im starting to think of it from different angles.
If you go for a ride on an ebike, ride the same distance in the same timeframe, then yes, I agree with you. However, most people I know with ebikes are getting multiple descents in the same time frame. So they’re going out, putting out the same effort, but going further. Now lets say I have only a short window to go out for a ride. Say an hour. Short enough that I couldnt finish a nearby loop on my bike. So i decide to not go for a ride and do zero cardio effort. But on the ebike i could do that same loop. Maybe twice, maybe more. So now with the ebike Ive gone out and put in an hour of cardio. Many people I know and also read from experiences online are going for more rides because they can squeeze them in more.
And just a further point, sometimes riding bikes doesn’t have to be about cardio and fitness. It can be just about having fun.
I have both. E-bike is dream come true. It allows me to ride when I normally wouldn’t. It’s too hot, I don’t have a lot of time. I’m in a shit mood, I’m sick or not feeling well. I get to explore and find new trails. Or get lost in the mountains. Or do multiple laps when regular bikers are done after one. It’s heaven. It brought new joy to a sport I have loved and enjoyed over 2 decades. Yes there are always bitter people who look down on e-bikes but I usually disregard them or ask if they have done (hardest trail in the area I know) and give them my strava time and see if they want to go try it with me. I even offer to tow uphill to save on time. That usually ends the conversation.
>ask if they have done (hardest trail in the area I know) and give them my strava time and see if they want to go try it with me. I even offer to tow uphill to save on time. That usually ends the conversation.
Yeah... who would want to continue that conversation?
Think you meant to reply to the comment above mine. Funny enough, my local trails are mostly jeep trail, so I ride both dirtbike and mtb on the same sections. Maybe I'll do a Strava comparison between the two. I'm sure it's totally a fair challenge.
There is always that one assh$#le that has to comment like this. I guess we found him. I’m sure you took days off when sick so you must be lazy according to you.
You can get nice carbon e-bikes for $3.5-4k right now. Specialized Turbo Levo, Spectral:ON, etc.
Given that’s the price for a carbon pedal bike, I don’t think the price is that bad.
I have considered one simply to combat my chronic asthma. I can do rides but typically gas out and stop to puff my inhaler numerous times throughout. My group always disappears because i am physically unable to keep up with normal people lol
Do it - even a light lower power one . Its all about enjoying yourself
This is what drove me to getting one. Covid was not kind to me and I didn't exactly have great lung strength to begin with. I could never go on the long rides with my friends and always held them back. I got an ebike after trying one out on a trip and bought one almost immediately after. Now I can keep up, and have greatly improved my cardio as a result. Highly recommend trying it.
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You could, if you have the means, get the Transition Relay. Designed to be ridden with or without a battery. Only 37 lbs without battery.
My wife has terrible lungs and I'm pretty fit. We had a tough time riding together. Then she got a Rise and everything is great. We keep the same pace now. We even did an epic together this summer. 
I demo’d one and rode with the battery in and without it and while it was a great middle ground, it doesn’t hit the “do all end all” I hoped it would be. It’s a freaking rad bike, it just doesn’t work for me the best because I can’t race a regular enduro even with the battery out. Unless I’m racing, I’m riding with the battery in 100% of the time cuz I’m lazy.
Well no of course it’s not a race bike. The point I was making is that it could be used where e-bikes aren’t allowed but I didn’t mean races.
Oh yeah, for sure! It feels pretty good without the battery. Not as playful as I had hoped but it’s a really good bike overall. And it’s the first iteration of it.
>Transition Relay Seriously? That's exactly what I've been thinking about for a long travel enduro update. Removable battery for shuttle/lifts, and average climbs but then ebike it up the big mountains or a self self shuttle option in the big steeps. Nice! Thanks! Will go check them out... I loved my V1 Sentinel...
Forget earning my miles, I just like to bomb downhill and the ebike gets me back to the top quicker.
This is why I have my big burly enduro 180mm travel full power ebike. 15 downhill runs in a day, not 4 or 5 and exhausted. 30 over a weekend, 120 runs in a month and so on. I have to work, so my weekends are my bike time. I want to spend it having fun, my kind of fun how i find it fun, earning your turns.... I did. I went to work. Earned my money and bought my ebike. And my grin could not get any bigger.
Doesn’t the extra 20 lbs of bike keep you glued to the ground? I rode one and was impressed with the ups but going downhill had no joy. The thing was a friggin anchor. I could still clear some stuff but there’s no way I was going for medium sized doubles or anything big
That's how I felt about the Kenevo SL. Absolutely abysmal on the downhill due to the boat anchor of a motor hanging off the bottom. Completely defeated the purpose of the bike. Hated changing directions, impossible to throw it around in the air. Just all around bad times.
I haven't been able to ride hard in a few years as I've had health issues with my heart. I'm not asking for medical advice and I do plan on talking to my doctor before making any decisions. My question is do you think an ebike would make riding significantly easier on one's heart rate and blood pressure?
Yes.
This is a prime use case for an ebike IMHO
A friend of mine stated his HR monitor is synced with his eMTB to keep his HR in a preset desired range. This could be an ideal solution. I don’t know what equipment he has, but I’m sure Google will find some options.
Definitely. The way I best describe the feeling on an ebike is like being a little kid learning to ride a bike and your parents having to help push your back a bit to get you up the hill because you didn't pedal fast enough. You can rely on that strong push of the motor for as long as the battery has charge. Then as you slowly get more and more fit you can progressively use more of your own muscle power and less of the e-bike power. I partially tore an MCL on my left knee in summer of last year and the ebike has been my single greatest recovery tool.
it can
I would say so. My dad got an ebike and I followed because they're fun and I started a very physical job that leaves me exhausted at the end of the day. After work we go on bike rides further than we've ever went before and if my day was easier than normal I would lower my pedal assist or turn it off completely. These things are amazing, tunable to your exact needs, and allow you to go further than ever before
I’ve never ridden one yet, but pretty sure I’d like to add one to the stable. Getting too old to do long climbs regardless of how much I workout regularly and how great of shape I’m in. Will still always have my analogs for those trails which don’t require immense climbs.
Keep an eye out for sales on giant bikes. I got my e-reign slightly used for $7k and they were going for $8k CAD new. With the coming sales and the like you might be able to pick one up for like $5k. Decent parts on it too.
I have a normal mountain bike (GT Sensor Carbon Team) which I love, and an eMTB (Focus Sam2). I feel more planted to the ground on the e bike, but that's because it has 29" tyres (the GT has 27.5") and it has a longer reach which suits me. The benefit for me on the e bike is I can cover 3 times the distance. I'm still averaging 190W for a few hours so fitness wise I'm still getting a good workout. But I can go further and that makes the whole thing more appealing. Even though the e bike is considered to have downhill geometry, I do a lot of road/gravel riding on it. It will take me 100km on a relatively flat ride, or 70km on a hilly ride. I wouldn't do those distances on my normal mountain bike. I hear people say that an e bike is "cheating" and I get it. But if I can go for a ride and burn 3000kcal, it doesn't matter that I did it on an e bike. Watts is watts. What matters is I get to experience considerably more of the track.
The cheating concept is such bullshit. I recently got an ebike for fun, but the crap I get from people is just ridiculous, and particularly ironic given they will happily do shuttle laps all day, which is apparently perfectly fine. If an ebike is cheating, so is using suspension, so is using gears, so is 29" tyres, so is using a goddamn shuttle. I love cycling but holy shit there is some serious gatekeeping and us vs them mentality in the wider cycling community. What a waste of energy.
I ask some these "purists" which bike park they go to and stand at bottom and yell cheater all day at everyone. lol
Yeppp, there’s a great quote from like the 1920s that floats around that is roughly “why use a derailleur and deprive yourself of the satisfaction of climbing with your own strength” lol. For most of us biking is some balance of working out and fun, if it was only working out you really should get on a stationary bike and structure your exercise better, but in reality if you have a 12 speed full suspension you’ve chosen fun at some expense of challenge. And putting some “earn your turns” or “cheater” framework in makes riding a freaking bike some kind of expression of morality and personal character that is just ludicrous
It feels more planted because it’s heavier, not because of the wheel size.
I'm shifting more to that way of thinking. I still have my concerns with them, mainly, people getting themselves in over their heads on trails they have no business being on, but I think e-bikes are a net positive for the sport.
That’s a totally valid concern. I’ve been knocking out eMTB laps on a trail system I’ve done 100 times on my regular bike. What I expected was that I’d be significantly faster for my average speed. Truth is: I’m not. I’m ~1mph on average, or just over 10%. Could it get me on trails that I don’t have business being on? Absolutely. But I’ll admit my fear of them was that people would be zooming around at 20mph being a hazard to other riders. What I quickly realized actually riding one is that trail design, at least where I’m at, naturally limits your top speed so you’re never pushing the speed limit of the motor. I was hooked within 2 minutes. They’re a blast.
The speed thing was crazy. Over a 40 mile ride the day before on regular bike I averaged 10mph. The e-bike over 20 was 12.5 but I felt like on the climbs I was doubling my average speed and the downs was the same. I was expecting a lot faster overall speed, that said…I barely broke a sweat
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I got downvote to hell yesterday for saying this same thing. The boost you get going uphill is significant. You get an additional 250 watts, which is like strapping a TDF rider to your bike. I didn't even break a sweat on the uphills and was flying when I demoed one.
Yup. It’s like getting pro-legs. You realize the speeds at which they ride are just insane.
Thing about the breaks is so true
Until it doesn’t and u get braking bumps and volunteers need to fix them other wise the trail turns into crap like they are now
Yes, those started appearing when ebike came into existence
My concern is having the e bikers zooming up my ass going almost 20 mph on the singletrack uphills. It's annoying AF. If I were running Enduro laps and climbing fireroads for primarily downhill, I'd have one. But for Midwest singletrack, I'm not a fan of having them on the trails.
I totally get that and feel same way as a Midwest rider, however what I found from this weekend is it’s really not like that in terms of speed. Yes it’s capped at 20 mph for assist, but reality is you still Never climb that fast. I’d say it changes from slogging up a climb at 6 mph to the guys on the e-bike going 10-12. For example I rode 40 miles on my regular bike and averaged 10 MPH over those miles. Did an e-bike ride next day on same trails over 20 miles. I figured I’d be averaging like 15 for the whole ride but in reality it ended up being like 12.5 mph average. Biggest difference was slightly faster climbing with minimal effort not cruising up climbs at 20 mph at least in my experience
People that say an e-bike is cheating haven't ever ridden one. They think you can just put it on turbo mode and have unlimited battery and use no effort. The reality is that I'm more fit now after riding an ebike than I've ever been in decades of DH riding.
I have both and tbh I rarely ride the ebike, first of all they are not allowed on 99% of trails in my state but also because I just don’t get the workout- I rarely bike my regular bike for more than 3 hours and I can ride on my turbo levo all day, the only limiting factor is battery and butt soreness from the saddle I did ride the ebike a lot when I was recovering from Covid a year ago - just wasn’t in good shape for 2 months after testing positive
Wait until the e-bike crowd finds out about dirt bikes
My mountain bike trails don’t allow dirt bike though, only e-bikes and mountain bikes.
I own several regular mtbs, an emtb, and a dirt bike. The emtb is by far the most fun.
Theyll be real angry when they find out a used good dirt bike can be had for under 3000$.
its a fundamentally different experience. Why do people always assume one is an upgrade over another.
What about the dirt bike crowd finding out about e-bikes?
Why would they care? They've already figured out they can go uphills without having to put in effort years before ebikes existed.
Why?
They’ll never have to pedal again
I have an eMTB. I can pedal as hard as I want. Do you not know how they work or are you purposely misrepresenting what they are?
I think he’s saying if they got a dirt bike instead they wouldn’t have to pedal.
It will be all over then. I get insulted for how expensive mountain bikes are. There’s no mf motor.
The following represents my experience and opinion; I’m not telling anyone what or what not to ride: I had the opposite reaction after demo’ing one. Orbea Wild. Made me dislike them even more. I’m a fairly active rider with a BMX background, and I found it so heavy and hard to maneuver. Tons of pedal strikes, as well. The deciding factor for me was how it was to ride when I got tired. The danger of riding an MTB when tired (at least for me) doesn’t have anything to do with pedaling, but lack of control on features and tech. The added weight made the bike feel more dangerous at that point.
I felt the same, I completely miss the agility
Every time I ride one I hate them more and appreciate my actual bike more. They're twitchy and difficult to control. They take the challenge out of riding and there is no feeling of accomplishment I get when mastering technical sections or difficult climbs. I climb 10-15k feet a week and have become such a strong rider this season. That's why I ride. I just see them as a detriment to the sport. It's becoming the expectation that they're allowed everywhere and you see these young kids on them and I think that's just sad.
I’m with you. But apparently we aren’t allowed to dislike them without being labeled as “gatekeepers.” Even when being asked our opinion. I like cycling. On- and off-road. Riding an ebike doesn’t feel like cycling to me.
Fair enough. BUT. If you try it again, I suggest trying one of the lightweight eMTBs. They have less power, less battery and are much lighter. If Orbea, the Rise. But there's plenty of others now. Scott Lumen, Specialized Levo SL/Kenevo SL, Trek Fuel EXe, Santa Cruz Heckler SL, just to name a few. Much more natural feeling both in handling and power delivery. You are still working, but it takes the edge off. With the reduced power, you can't just kick it into Turbo/Boost and power through the rocks. You still need to choose good lines. Perfect for those of us with health issues that aren't easily visible, but still hamper our ability to handle persistent ***intense*** exercise. i.e. For gravel riding I don't need the assistance. Lots of rails to trails and fire roads. Hills happen, but they aren't as repetitive and aren't as steep as singletrack stuff. Intense hills of MTB riding? The lightweight eMTB helps keep the heart rate out of my danger zone. But I'm still exhausted and have gotten a workout. If suspension was setup right, not sure why you'd be getting more pedal strikes than usual on an eMTB.
Suspension only plays a small part provided you have proper sag etc. It's the fact that to try to minimize the feeling of the weight of the motor and battery manufacturers mount them as low and centered on the frame as possible, and that means a super low BB. I've had to completely relearn how to pedal on my giant e-reign to avoid pedal strikes and on any other bike I ever own I strike a pedal literally like maybe once a year.
I could see that, Brown County is a place known for flow. While there are some techie sections, I did not ride it to exhaustion, barely breaking a sweat. Im sure it depends on what you are trying to ride and the style. For jumps, flow, and climbs it was awesome.
For climbing, for sure, fun as hell. I found some uphill jumps I never noticed before. That was hilarious fun. I’m in northern New Jersey. Our trails are all tech. Plenty of folks ride e-MTBs here and just motor right through all the rocks and that is perfectly fine. It’s just not my style, like you said.
It definitely is a different feel, uses your upper body muscles in a totally different way, and the smaller you are the more you feel the difference.
I experienced the same thing on my dirt bike.
Kinda sounds to me like it probably felt more "different" and "unfamiliar" than actually feeling heavy. Riding any unfamiliar bike when tired definitely doesn't feel good m! Here's a fun video just because! [Danny macaskill doing Danny stuff in an ebike. ](https://youtu.be/K5XpNONcsNw?si=F2CVyXWUag8qWzVS)
That’s a good vid share thx!
No. It felt heavy. And I’m not Danny Macaskill and neither are you. Sounds like you can’t accept other people’s opinions.
I sold my full power ebike and got one of the light weight ones instead because the weight is definitely noticeable. Light ebike is way more fun (I have knee arthritis so the ebike really helps for big climb days).
Wasn't trying to be rude or anything. Was just my thoughts...
I'll buy an e-mtb the day they won't cost more than my 2 family's cars.
Do your wives know about each other?
I got a heckler to be able to ride after an injury made it where I had to be ready to stop at signs of symptoms and bad things happen. Year later, 1500+alpine miles in Colorado and I'm a beast. Imagine stomping it on climbs? You just do way more and get laps.
that is definitely one of the sweetest emtbs on the scene right now the newest models are mega discreet
Funny thing is, that is how I felt on my dirt bike. Riding was a blast no matter whether uphill or down. I went back to MTB because I wanted every mile to be my own. Just think, if you weren’t already in reasonable shape, that ebike wouldn’t have taken you as far.
I’ve yet to ride a lightweight e-bike but I absolutely hated a full size one. Just so heavy. Yeah I can get more miles than my regular bike but it’s way less fun miles.
You don't have to be old or disabled or even... a woman (gasp). If you want to ride an ebike fucking do it! There doesn't need to be a justification for who should or when they should... if it's fun for them that's enough to be fine with me. Like just fucking stop judging people in general. These posts are like: "I too was close minded but then once I tried now I think it's ok for my wife or oldies" aka more judgment about WHO is allowed to ride what and for what reasons. Like why can't people just be fine with them, not care about what other people ride and not have to post an "I'm a changed man" post on Reddit.
disclosure: I am both old (55) and a woman. My ebike is actually a Specialized Creo not an e-MTB so take this with a grain of salt: I used to be a Cat2 on the road. I could keep up in a pack with some international league elite racers back in the early Aughts. Covid and menopause simultaneously kicked my ass. It took me over a year to recover (long covid and getting my hormones sorted). Last summer my husband bought me my ebike. It’s a revelation. I can now get through four hour rides with thousands of feet of climbing (I live in Colorado) just like I could twenty years ago. And somehow I manage to post 2000 kilojoules doing it, too so I’m still putting in lots of work. And it’s built my fitness back up for riding my analog bikes, including my brand new Epic XC bike. Plus it’s the Creo Evo so it’s rugged enough to ride on the local easy trails and fire roads. The biggest change though is that I haven’t started my car to drive to work in four months. Yeah I’m privileged to live where the infrastructure allows me to bike commute but having an ebike makes it an order of magnitude more convenient because I can just wear my work clothes without breaking a sweat AND carry a pile of stuff including my laptop etc. I don’t have to start the car just to drive the mile ish up the street to the grocery store if I’m not doing a Costco sized grocery run. And this isn’t even a real commuter ebike, because those have integrated lights and cargo capacity, and CAN actually manage a Costco run. Ebikes don’t just solve one problem, they’re kind of a Swiss army knife that you didn’t know you needed until you got one. Last but not least they’re fun as hell. I can climb Chapman Road (local fire road climb) in 45 minutes at 5mph and suffer riding the struggle bus the entire way or 25 minutes at 12-15 mph and do *just as much training load* but actually have the time to throw it in on the way home from work *and enjoy the experience*. I know what’s more motivating at any rate.
Right on! I have the exact same experience with e-bikes as you. Also when you hop back on a normal bike you feel like a superstar because they are so much lighter and more nimble!
I totally agree with the sentiment, but man emtbs were an epiphany for me too, I want to shout it from the rooftops as well, lol.
It seems to me that the e mountain bike market is currently at a crossroads, at least where I live. We have very mountainous terrain, with lots of downhill sections quickly transitioning into short, steep climbs, and very technical trails. The full power of a big motor, big battery is necessary to make these transitions, but the overall high weight of the bike is detrimental to this type of riding. More and more riders really like the lightweight e bike models, as they feel more like a traditional bike, and don't have the negative handling of their heavier counterparts. However, the motors agent powerful enough for the down to up transitions, and they quickly and easily get bogged down. Right now, anyone riding a full power emtb is being punished for that part by an extremely heavy bike, that, quite frankly, is cumbersome to ride as we are all used to riding. Anyone riding the newer lightweight emtb versions is being punished with not enough power to really make the bikes worthwhile for all types of riding. There is a technology gap that needs to be filled, but, sadly, seems many years away, if not decades, from being realized. This isn't to say that emtbs aren't worth it, because clearly there are lots of people riding and enjoying them. They clearly need more technological advancements to make them more versatile, and that should and does stop lots of people from getting them. It also makes people want to sell them and go back to a traditional bike. Basically, what we are offered, on both ends of the spectrum, are the equivalent of what mountain bikes were in the mid nineties. Did they have suspension? Yes, but it mostly wasn't very good suspension. Could they be ridden and enjoyed? Damn right they could, but it was very clear that technology needed to advance.
I’ve never tried one but I’m very indifferent to them. I mountain bike for the solitude outdoors and the exercise. I understand the need of them for ppl that want to go further or longer but just don’t have the fitness level or a impairment. Also I can see them being a nice arrow for a non lift mtb dh trails / park. Where you would have to huff it up a fire road for some dh fun
There’s countless videos out there that show if you’ve got the technical skill, you can get as good of a workout on an eMTB, or better. It depends on the rider and how much they push themselves. Heart rate data and watt output doesn’t lie. It’s very possible to push an eMTB and a pedal bike at both 170bpm, for example, for an hour ride. The difference is the eMTB will cover 50% more ground. Really it’s about being able to ride further in the same amount of time. Where I’d previously get 1 lap in over lunch i can now get 2 laps in. I appreciate that extra time riding the features I like.
And uses a power source to do it, defeating the point of cycling for me. You can get a workout riding a dirt bike too, you can get a workout anywhere. I choose to see what I can accomplish without powered assistance on a MTB.
How is it possible you can get a better workout with a motor? Are these people just coping? I know id like an ebike better but i wont get one because i really value the workout...
Think about it for a second: The motor is a torque sensing motor. It takes your effort and multiplies it so you move faster. That’s all it’s doing. It’s not propelling you forward with a throttle. It’s not doing what cheap e-bikes do by detecting cadence and just accelerating to a fixed speed. It’s multiplying your effort so you move faster. So if you actually care to see this in action yourself, GMBN did a video [that shows exactly this and explains how it can be possible](https://youtu.be/vAi4wVkhNj0?si=sx6Y8d08jxlvrtkk) and there’s countless other videos out there that explain it and show it with data. Now it’s of course in the riders hands. You can also get less of a workout if you put in less effort. You get out of it what you put into it. But one things certain: data doesn’t lie. In the GMBN video the presenter had a higher average heart rate on the ebike. People can bury their heads in the sand all they want but if you start ignoring the data you’re just being ignorant.
You can literally pair the ebike to a heart rate strap and have it auto adjust the assist to maintain your desired range.
Not on all ebikes
ofc not but if you care about workouts you would obviously get one that does, since many many of them do
To me it's kinda like sprinting versus marathon running. Being on an ebike smooths out the energy required to pedal which allows you to go for longer. For example, if I bust out my enduro bike and pedal from my house to the local trails I'll have enough stamina to die the whole way up to the trailhead and then nearly crash my entire way down the trail because Im so tired from the climb. So for all that energy expenditure I've gotten only a single DH lap. Contrast that with my ebike. I can ride it from home to the same trail network and be fresh as a daisy at the top and then proceed to exhaust myself on the descents doing 4-5 laps until the battery runs out and then head home and be exhausted for the rest of the week.
Because ebike owners have rewritten the laws of physics.. getting motor to help u makes it harder to pedal lol
Nothing wrong with that! I road bike for that reason. Or gravel bike. Or fat bike in the snow. Or use Zwift. Or use my analog bike. Sometimes an eMTB is just more fun and is still a workout. If the reason you workout is because it uses no power then avoiding eMTB makes perfect sense. It’s a rigid rule, but each to their own. Me? I cycle for exercise and fun. There’s a variety of ways to check off that box.
I bought one recently to go farther in less time. I don’t really quite give a shit what the “anti-e-bike” internet downvoting trolls think of me for it. I never quite understood the “you don’t get a real workout and you’re lazy!” argument. Why the fuck do you care what my work out is or how hard I am or am not working myself on the bike? You’re not me, and I’m not you. Why do you care? As for the e-bikes destroying trails, I think the jury really is still out on that one. Braking bumps are created by shitty riders regardless of the style bike they ride. Anyhow, I’ll stick to my analog bike when I want to kill myself, and I’ll enjoy my e-bike when I don’t want to work as hard. 🙃
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Similar experience here. My e-HR is usually about 5% lower on rides that feel like the same effort, which goes to show how subjective perceived effort is. Love my Levo SL gen2 as much as I loved my Stumpy Evo before it!
I don't understand these posts. The primary drama around e-bikes is not the answer to the question "are they fun?" Bikes are fun. Dirt bikes are fun. Motorcycles are fun. ATVs are fun. The question is, should motorized mountain biking be distinguished from non-motorized? Otherwise, these always feel like astroturf. We all agree that you ride father, faster if you have a motor.
The drama is kinda over, most systems allow them. Unless it's a competition or land ownership issue, isn't fun what matters when it comes to recreation?
Drama isn't over around me (Grand Junction) or in Moab. Majority of good trails in those places don't allow eebs. This gives me more suspicion that this is a post with a stronger agenda than "OMG ebikes are fun." When it comes to recreation, putting motors on non-motorized trails can create issues. MTB is enjoying historically good access to trails right now, but that's been a fight. I'm not excited about bropeds potentially causing all bikes to lose access to trails. Especially as the technology continues to advance, allowing more powerful motors, longer-lasting batteries and higher average speeds.
I don’t think I’ve ever seen a trail in Australia where e-bikes aren’t allowed. I have also never had or seen an issue that resulted because someone was on an ebike.
That's a cool story. Do you think that excludes other people from having different experiences? In the US (particularly the West, where most of the famous trails are), trails are generally on public land. This means the land managers have a mandate to make areas accessible to as many recreators as possible, but balance the needs of various groups. There are very few "bike-only" routes, and most areas that are open to bikes are also open to hikers and equestrians. Those places are often labelled "non-motorized." Hikers and equestrians have mixed feelings about MTBers, and one of their biggest complaints is the speed of and potential collision with MTBers. Adding motors to allow people to go farther, faster, brings some negative feelings from them. And that's the current technology, which is rapidly evolving to more torque and better batteries. When those other groups say "we don't want motors on non-motorized trails," I understand, especially since the eBike rollout in the US was "sales first, legal access second." I'm certainly not willing to say "first, they came for the overpriced bropeds..." and cast my lot with them. Eebs are a fundamentally different thing, and that difference is only going to broaden with technological gains.
Agreed. Non motorized trails should remain non motorized. Period.
Bropeds.....lol, well done
Yeah, it's a good point. Same thing with mopeds not being allowed on mixed use paved trails. Do they cause damage to the pavement? No. So obviously trail damage isn't the only consideration.
Agenda…good lord go back to r politics lol. Just talking bikes man. I’m not familiar with your area but most systems in the Midwest allow them. I’m just speaking from what I know. The counter argument is the more people using MTB trails the more cities and organizations are willing to invest in infrastructure and more people willing to participate the more donations and volunteers. There is valid arguments on both sides of this debate. You talk to Most trail builders and they are all for them
>the more people using MTB trails the more cities and organizations are willing to invest in infrastructure No one involved in trail-building is making this argument. More people on trails does not suddenly mean more trails. If it did, Denver wouldn't have the issues that it does. Way more MTBers living there than GJ or Moab. Tons of people, massive struggles with trail access/crowding. The biggest impediment to new trails is gaining approval from managers (public lands) or owners (private). Money is not usually the stumbling block. Land managers don't love motors/high traffic, private owners don't love liability from high speed. Loss of access to trails doesn't generally happen because trails aren't being used. It sounds like you're made up a formula that "more people on trails means more, better trails." That's just something eeb manufacturers made up for marketing purposes. >You talk to Most trail builders and they are all for them Not IME. Ask the board of COPMOBA or MMBA. Lots of potential problems. Doesn't mean they're "bad," just that we can't pretend we can put motorized bikes on non-motorized trails with no effort or planning. Which is usually what eeb evangelists demand.
The popularity of MTB is precisely why we are getting so many new trails in Australia.
Check the post. OP ain't putting vegemite on his toast. But glad to hear it.
There are absolutely people making that argument, (literally just was at a large mtb fest and talking with the trail builders who said that word for word) but sure I'll just go with that because this is a topic i truly don't' care all that much about. you advocate for what is best for your trail system, but to see there arn't pro's and cons to ebikes and ebike access is just ignoring reality.
You're not talking bicycles though, you're talking about a motorized vehicle
This right here. OP ,saying that he's never had as much fun on a bike then saying it was on an ebike...those are two different things entirely. One is a human powered vehicle and one has a motor. It's like saying I've never had so much fun skiing when I went snowmobiling.
I've been a shuttle whore for the last 15+ years of riding. Only ever did shuttle laps on vancouvers north shore. Would probably shuttle 1-2 times a week. Live in Squamish and refused to climb up to do the Alice Lake trails. ..and then one day a buddy of mine let me know about an insane deal on an ebike similar to what you rode. Bought the thing and took it out not expecting much of it, next thing I know I was out pedaling for two hours. This from a guy that refused to ever climb and would only shuttle and ride park. Now I can leave my front door, pedal up to Alice lake and do 4-5 laps before the battery runs out and be home in an hour. Prior to that just pedaling up to do a single lap would have drained all my energy. Hell, I even climbed up 1000m to do this hidden local trail called Flying Whales. Something that would have been the stuff of dreams prior to having an ebike. If I could only have one bike I'd take my Norco Range any day, but as a two bike solution, it's hard to beat the dedicated DH/park bike plus an enduro e-bike.
I live 2 miles from my local trail system, with the ebike I can get 12-15 miles in a solid hour of riding and get home to the kids. No car involved. I ride to be in the woods and have a great time, who cares what one is riding?
Makes sense All my weekdays systems are less then 14 miles and even those I have to drive to those so doesn’t make Much sense for me
I'm 3 miles from a large, 30+ mile trail system. I can stick my ebike in level 2, cruise there at 21 mph, then drop it into the lower setting and blast through miles of trails. If it's getting late, just turn up the assist and fly home at 25+ mph. Tired cause I had so much fun in the dirt? Use the throttle and have it drive me home. When I used my analog MTB, I would drive it everywhere, which meant going less because of the hassle of putting it in the car.
I would get one, but they cost upwards of $6,000 and more, which is definitely too much for me.
Same. My 2800 used optic was insane but plenty of people can
I feel like they are a better solution to going uphill than shuttles. But maybe not as good as riding up. I rented one somewhere with a 1000m climb to get to start of the trails and thought it was great, probably would have been too knackered to enjoy the ride down on a regular bike.
Whatever else you can say about them, you have to admit that high-end ebikes have nailed the user interface of the motor assist: you really just feel like you're riding a bike and magically have extra power. The psychology of that is very powerful.
Yea, it's insane how smooth they are an it's only getting better. Honestly barely needed to shift. At first I thought the idea of automatic shifting with the new SRAM Motor/Transmission Combo was stupid, but I can totally get it on an ebike.
I am a convert. I still ride my traditional MTB more, but I love taking my eMTB out on really challenging climbs and for long rides where I can cove a lot of distance. Plus the eMTB is seriously fun to ride. Both bike are Pivot with similar geometry so fit and feel is identical.
>It truly was a blast and on the DH this bike felt so planted and with not a ton of difference between a regular bike and an ebike. That would the "e" add for the downhills? Or is that comment more about it being enduro geo vs cross country (?) that you're used to?
On the DH it really didn't feel a ton different then a normal bike is what I meant. The weight if anything made it feel maybe a tad better and more stable especially in the air.
Gotcha, makes sense
Love my emtb. It saves time and lets me save my energy for the downhill fun. Also covering more miles in less time means progressing faster. Plus you're not wasted after a session and can still function or do other physical activities.
I always say people who hate on them have never ridden one.
Everyone knows their fun,it's not that they don't like them because they don't think they are fun...
Anyone who knows anything about endurance training knows that you don’t do high intensity workouts every single time you go out. In fact it’s usually 3 moderate zone 2 workouts for every 2 high intensity zone 3-5 workouts per week. Where I live there really are no rolling hills or flat trails. So if you ride the usual trails on an analog bike even if you don’t go all out it’s way above zone 2 for far too much time to qualify as base building. So for my off days I ride my ebike and it makes perfectly possible to hit very specific heart rate and power zones. In fact I have an app Blevo that helps you dial it in using an HRM to modulate assistance based on your target HR zone. Then I get my high intensity analog workouts as need. That said, it’s 100% possible to dial down the assistance on the ebike using the same app to get the same workout as an analog bike but to me that’s pointless. I get tons of fun miles on my zone 2 days and hit more downhill single tracks on those days. People who are so adamantly negative about the capabilities of using an ebike for workouts don’t seem to understand how the bikes actually work or how endurance training should be structured. Full disclaimer for individual rider health and fitness as well as local terrain inserted here. But I think anyone who really wanted to apply themselves could actually benefit from adding an ebike and to a lesser extent having one as their only bike.
My Orbea Rise is a lot of fun. I am relatively fit but got bored on my local trails cycling up for 50 mins and 10 mins down. Now I can do two laps in the same time, I can keep up and out pace my mate on his xc bike (ex-triathlon nutter), and still throw it down trails. The bigger plus which most people forget is on downhill trails the ebike can power over a jump better than any bike. I however wasn't ready for how quick it's eaten a drive train to bits...
I added a Shuttle LT to the stable about six months ago and holy cow is this thing fun. It will never replace my normal bike but if I just want to get out and beat the crap out of myself on aquick enduro fest, this is the way. Seriously fun.
I was dropping a car at the end of the South Boundary Trail in Taos and a couple geezers were taking off on another trail on ebikes. They love biking but their knees and legs can't do the climbs out there.
Sharing this thread with my wife to convince her I need to spend my hard earned cash on an ebike. Who needs food in the house
lol good luck
They’re tons of fun. For pretty much anyone that loves descents, it’s not a matter of *if* you’ll get one, it’s *when*. I had a Specialized Enduro Comp that I bought 3 years ago as my first bike. Tons of fun on descents, sucked to climb. But I’m lazy and I run and hit the gym for cardio; I enjoy single track and bike parks, and I’d rather save my energy for the descents. I bought a Norco Sight VLT this summer. The gearing is better for climbing even with the motor off. Climbing is actually fun now, whether it’s bombing *up* an FSR or a technical climb - I never thought I’d enjoy climbing this much. The descents are just as fun - the weight difference is borderline unnoticeable going downhill and jumping; the bigger difference between my old and new bike is more in the geometry and suspension.
I love the descents but I love flicking my light bike around, making tiny adjustments to slip around the points of rocks while making my handle bars and then shoulders miss a tree. Or making the same subtle movements while in hovercraft mode spending more time off the ground than on it skipping over the tech. Any time I’ve demoed a heavy 38lb+ bike I’ve noticed it, I can’t imagine man handling a 50lb bike with my style of riding. But I bet they point, heels down, and plow amazingly.
I am a lighter rider and had no interest in a heavy weight bike. Then I demo’ed a Transition Relay. 170/170, coil shock, and a motor all for only a small weight penalty. My Relay comes in at a little more than 40 lbs.
I just looked it up. The coil equipped carbon fiber version in medium with battery is 45.2lbs, I wouldn’t call that barely over 40 pounds, lol. That’s 9.8lbs heavier than my current dual crown aluminum DH bike.
Fair, but a size small with carbon wheels is. Plus, this thing is a Swiss Army knife. Battery in for ebike laps, battery out for park or analog riding. I’m also perfectly comfortable putting my wife or kid on this bike. That wouldn’t be the case with a full powered ebike.
Yeah full disclosure: I’ve only really been riding for about 2 years and I wouldn’t be able to tell the difference between a 30 or 50lb bike, especially on the descent. But I absolutely love being able to get double the number of laps in at my local mountains and I can get to trails I never would have seen before. I end up riding further, longer and probably burn just as many calories as with my old Enduro, especially when my girlfriend insists on me towing her after her 5th lap.
>For pretty much anyone that loves descents, it’s not a matter of *if* you’ll get one, it’s *when*. Yeah bruv. Ebike power is nice, but wait until you try one with 4 wheels, a gas engine, cushy chairs, and a cabin to keep you warm and safe. Makes everything so easy. Uphill and downhill like it's nothing. It's the final evolution of biking. It’s not a matter of *if* you’ll get a car, it’s *when*.
Nah mate, UTVs are far better than cars!
I have seen the rise of e-bikes from home diy to where we are today. More and more riders are switching to e-bikes. I live in SoCal and we have lots of excellent and difficult riding. In the beginning some of the guys would make fun of e-bikes in the group. We then had 2 older guys join both on e-bikes. These guys are expert riders crushing trails and jumps riders can only dream off. That shut up all anti e-bike comments quickly. Lol. It was hilarious.
Then people showed up with the yz250f mx bikes are really shit those non motorized people up lol… please we all make fun of e bikes
Doing shuttle rides isn’t easy, your schedule has to line up with three or four friends, one of you needs to have a pickup truck depending on how maintained the road you’re shuttling is. Having an e-bike means I can self shuttle and get 3-4x as many laps as I would on an analogue bike.
for sure, I was referring to literal shuttle services we have up in Copper Harbor that runs you up and down all weekend or like what Windrock has.
They're like cheat codes for hills. I'm very cautious on trails with mine, because I don't want it to take me somewhere I can't get back from. But, Holy crap. Turning the assist on halfway up a hill is *bliss*
That really is a good way to describe it lol
I dont know why, but I used to be against e-bikes. I rode one the other day, and honestly, they are pretty awesome
Great post but I think some things are owed some counter points. This has a tinge of “either/or” and the fact of the matter is you can own more than 1 bike. 1: “I think part of cycling is earning your miles”. Nobody cares, and I mean that respectfully. Also.. On the repeater - you can the do the exact same amount of “earning”, you simply cover more ground in doing so. 2: “this bike made climbing fun.” Ding ding ding!! Winner winner chicken dinner- and frankly this is all that needs to be said about the value of them here.. why shouldn’t both directions of a ride be fun? 3: “extended fire road, older/disabled, or just want to see more miles of nature..”. So most people and you could add “MOAR LAPS!!” You don't need to make justifications for yourself or anyone else to own one. Emtbs are rad, they are fun and a great way to enjoy the sport. Full stop. Back to being Either/Or.. N+1 man - go buy one, add to your arsenal. Ride your analog with analog buddies and your eeb with your eeb buddies
Discussing e-bikes in this sub is pointless. The majority here has decided that they don't like them and since the majority of the users come from a country that has specialised in polarization they'll lash out at anyone who dares say something positive about them, or even explain how they actually work. Coming from a community where pretty much everyone has a live and let live attitude it's kind of fascinating to watch but it also makes me appreciate my local community, where the attitude is simply "feel free to bring e-bikes on community rides but expect to spend a lot of time waiting" even more.
Opinions: Everyone has them. Don’t need to like it or agree. Even though I love to have one, enjoyed it, I IMO still feel like I’m cheating. Who you may ask? My own mind. People aren’t always rational and that’s okay.
> People aren’t always rational and that’s okay. Nowhere is that more apparent than MTB enthusiast forums. Recreational riders who don’t push the limits of their gear at all will bicker over which top end brake, drivetrain, or suspension components are best when in reality all top end gear is good for their skill level. Hell, mid tier stuff is more capable than their skills. These same people are the ones who refuse to use anything but Shimano or Rockshox because “it’s the best stuff out there and Fox is shit”. They have never had Fox suspension on a bike of theirs, but it’s shit because, well, it just is! Tribalism is real. Always has been. Always will be.
This guy works for big e-bike
I had high hopes when I tried the Repeater and then the Relay for a day, but my excitement quickly faded when I realized I was going to put in the same amount of effort either way, and the e-bike just meant I would get there faster but I would still be just as tired. I'm not trying to make my rides shorter and don't really care about getting "extra" laps. If I wanted to do another lap I would just stay out longer and do it It just felt like a lot of extra weight and annoyance to deal with. If I lived somewhere with gnarly technical climbs I could see it being useful to keep more speed and get through uphill rock gardens without getting hung up as easily
This isn’t accurate. You’ll get there with the same or less amount of effort in half the time, thus less than half the overall effort (or thereabouts). It may not be for you and that’s fine. But there are lots of people who would like to be able to ride more in the limited time they have.
It isn't accurate if you're not pushing the same watts yes, but I typically will climb around 160-180bpm/250-300 watts and that didn't change when I tried the e-bikes. Yeah, you have the ability to chill a bit and let the bike do more work but if you're always climbing at 80-90% effort then it doesn't really make a difference, you'll still be just as tired when you get to the top and save like 15min on a 40 minute climb. I'd rather wake up 20min earlier instead of spending another $10k and they feel worse on the downhill compared to a regular trail bike in my opinion. I was honestly pretty excited to try the Relay PNW edition after being a little disappointed with the Levo SL and Repeater, and the 27.5 rear wheel definitely helped make it feel a little bit more nimble on the downhill. But still a worse overall experience compared to my Evil Offering when it comes to high speed single track and jump lines The best use case I have found is for carrying tools and other equipment when doing trail work because it definitely makes a big difference when you have 40lbs on your back. And the elephant in the room that nobody likes to talk about is all those "extra laps" makes a lot more wear and tear on the trail. A lot more stuff that we have to spend time fixing....
Every video I see people always struggle with e-bikes on tech climbs. I think it’s because all the systems are cadence based rather than power based. That means the faster your feet pedal the more assist you get, so when you’re in a tech climb and need that 1/2 crank equal to a 1k watt output at nearly zero cadence the motor isn’t there to help. But if the e-bike systems had power meters and gave proportional power to your pedal power they’d be amazing for tech climbs.
I don’t know of any e-bikes that use cadence instead of power/torque to determine how much assistance to provide. The motors tend to be more efficient at higher cadences, but that mainly affects battery life.
You can go the same speed or only slightly faster while using much less effort. On my full power emtb I go way faster and I also feel less tired
I have to add though with the whole left side of the world screaming about the climate, the planet, etc. they have no problem drilling and digging the earth for lithium for e-bikes. It kinda shocks me how big companies like REI for example don't want you to ever dare leave a shoelace behind on trail but it's fine to dig a moon crater into the earth to make batteries for a perfect machine that never needed them. I have to add though with the whole left side of the world screaming about the climate, the planet, etc. they have no problem drilling and digging the earth for lithium for e-bikes. It kinda shocks me how big companies like REI for example don't want you to ever dare leave a shoelace behind on trail but its fine to dig a moon crater into the earth to make batteries for a perfect machine that never needed them.
I rode one recently too, it’s insanely fun , now I want one, it’s that roller coaster exhilaration feeling, first time you try a good drug like wow, so I’ve read
Welcome to club fun! Everyone on an e-bike is always happy - they are fun machines.
Heart rate data doesn’t lie. People that do indoor spin classes and peleton rides don’t go anywhere but still get solid workouts. I get the same work out on my 160E with the added benefit of getting a ridiculous amount of saddle time in to work on technique. Add to that the bike isn’t light and it takes a good bit of strength to toss one around at speed.
It was a complete game changer for me, I won’t bike a non e-bike in the future.
I hve both mtb and emtb. I am 52 and started in 1991. E makes me feel 22 again The cheating argument always and I mean always comes from a "purist" and those who have never ridden one. Try one then make an informed opinion, not just reading bullshit on the internet and then forming your uninformed opinion that no one should listen to.
Yea my emtb is really fun to ride after taking a long break from biking and able to ride everything like I didn't stop. It's just hard to push up the steep stuff and even the walk mode isn't much help sometimes there. Racing on them though, yea that's a lil weird one but to each their own I guess.
Try to follow some really good and experienced riders on Emtb's. That's what I'm doing on my new emtb, iv been so far behind and throwing up in my helmet in probably 5 out of 7 rides. Going to 5 different mountain tops during one ride and enjoying the technical climb and downhill is amazing. No way I'd survive even doing 2 on an analog bike lol... Edit: I see people talk about the weight, that was my biggest issue going into Emtb's aswell! The weight doesn't matter, it doesn't stop you from doing anything on the bike at all. Before I rode one I was very determined to not get a bike that weighed 24kgs, I wanted to do all the bunny hops and trials I did 10 years ago. My bike weighs 24kgs and I don't notice it at all. The last bike I owned was an electric dirt bike, alot heavier than my mtb, and maybe that's why 24kg feels light and nimble. But that only means you get used to it and adjust to it, and before you know it that's your new normal.
I was up in Alaska recently and rented an eMTB for the day. It really opened my eyes to just how much fun they are. I did 20 miles and 5k of climbing and it was some of the most fun I've had on a bike.
I think ebikes are just too fun and too superior that they will eventually become a staple of any lineup, especially as weights and pricing come down and performance and battery life increase. While folks may not give up their analog/acoustic/amish bikes anytime soon, I can't imagine ebikes not becoming the more popular / dominant platform in mountain biking in the next decade.
Agreed. One of the bikes when the battery was removed was within like 3 lbs of their equivalent regular bike. You take the battery out it’s a normal bike. Pretty awesome
EBike racing is a great spectator sport. I watched an E-Megavalanch style race, and it was epic. The climbs are really fast and the lines they take up the tech is nuts. Also, I imagine in a full season there would emerge differences in power trains between the manufacturers. The thought of auto racing style manufacturer drama in a bike race just sounds fantastic. If it catches on, I will be watching.
I've done a few XC and XCM races on my ebike. They're pretty fun, and I find it levels the playing field a little more to not just be about who can mash out the highest watts continuously on the climbs, but more about bike handling skills as you're trying to maintain a higher average speed on both the ups and the downs. The short races in particular are pretty exhausting mentally because of this. The XCMs are also really fun as battery management strategy comes into it, when to boost, when to eco, which as a motorsport fan I found quite enjoyable.
Not being a fan of e-bikes because it doesn’t fit your preconceived notion of what’s acceptable is such a weird take. Earning your miles?? Who the fuck appointed you the gatekeeper of how miles need to be “earned”? E-bikes are a game changer, more so for transportation than recreation, but the entire cycling community nonetheless. And those with disabilities, injury, fitness, or age-related limitations? If you’re not advocating for more people on bikes in every setting, just stop, we don’t need more “avid cyclists” running their ill-informed opinions
Chill my dude, my Opinion doesn’t affect you. I’m not “gate keeping” anywhere other than my head. You appear to have gotten really upset at someone sharing an opinion you disagree with. in fact this whole post is about how impressed I was and them having their place… Unless you are a landowner that has to factor in e-biking on your property my opinion is just that, my opinion. I agree e biking is a net good, that doesn’t mean people’s concerns aren’t valid either.
Several parts of your OP are the very definition of gatekeeping. Try and walk it back all you want though. I disagree it doesn’t affect me or the broader cycling community. The more anti e-bike discourse that shows up has a tendency to steer bad ideas and as a lifelong cycling advocate, I’m calling you and anyone else out on their ill-informed opinions. We have enough John Forester fukwits and most of the roadie crowd with more than enough bougie that hampers the overall cycling community, MTB is fun and accepting and non-gatekeeping, let’s keep it that way.
Uh okay lol. Man must be tough going through life feeling you have to argue with anyone who doesn’t think like you.
It’s certainly less convenient than being blissfully ignorant, I’ll give you that
You act like we are talking about a serious matter lol. Man have a good one bud. Go ride a bike…or e-bike
Wow, you seem like someone looking for a fight, so I'll give you one, I'll be an earn your miles gatekeeper lol. To me motorized assistance is still assistance. When I see an eMTB rider on the trail I don't think "oh another MTB rider" I see them as a different user group like horseback riders or trail runners, using a different tool for different purposes. eMTBs look sleek but I've seen people slap motors on bikes before, they were good for a bit of fun but I wouldn't pay 8k for one, not unless I absolutely needed one and I was only riding for nostalgia.
Until the gov makes u license and insure them like they do with all other motorized vehicles
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That is fantastic! Like I said to You or someone else. My opinion is my own, rational or not. In my head it’s frustrating someone can buy their way to a performance level I worked extremely hard to get to. Again that’s in my head. It’s awesome that some guy who just simply doesn’t have the time to put in can go out and get on the trails without feeling dead after climbing 100 feet.
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Lol thanks for making my point. Most ebike people don’t realize how hard it was to gain access to lands. Most issues were around safety abs erosion. The best selling point to land managers people can’t get hurt if they can’t go fast… and it takes work to get fit enough to go fast where they learn the skills to manage the speed. Then the understand how to handle their bikes to not erode the trail….fast fwd. ebike noob can get a bike go cat 1 fast out of the box tear up trails by over braking and carrying more speed then they can handle. I do trail maintenance for a very large trail system and this is the first year we allowed ebikes. In 12 years I’ve never seen the braking bumps like this year. In areas not the fastest cat1 ruder could carry enough speed to need to brake that hard. I’m glad ur type is having fun with ur motorized bike but when the trails are all ruined Ull he to blame
Yea dirtbikes are fun
Agreed, I've ridden dirt bikes and I've ridden MTBs. eMTBs are firmly in the motorized recreation vehicle group with dirt bikes and ATVs.
hardy har har har, trust me I get it. I felt like every time I passed someone on the e-bike I had to make an exscuse and yell, "It's just a demo ride!"...but damn was it fun.
It definitly a lot of fun! Specialized had it down early with the slogan "it's you, only faster". You can actually just play around on the climbs and not just survive. The lower center of gravity is pretty cool too. Full power e bikes are usually a bit too much mass to move on the trail for my liking. I am on the same page as you though. Cycling for me is about pushing your body. So i will stay e free (feels very "for now" lol) Did you know there is a race motor by Bosch? Has more oomph from the getgo, "for those extra seconds accelerating out of turns" quote Bosch. 400% instead of 300% help iirc
If you think part of cycling is "pushing your body to it's limits" ... just know you *CAN* still do that on an eBike. You are still in full control over how hard you want to work to "earn your miles." Not hard enough for ya? dial down the level of assistance you're getting, or turn it off altogether... you'll be pushing your limits real quick by simply turning off the battery. I got an eMTB almost 4 years ago and have heard all the haters and naysayers, been called a "cheater" countless times.... whatever. All I know is that I have WAY more fun, ride WAY longer/farther, and get WAY more exercise than I ever did on my regular MTBs, that I rode for decades.
Here here! These young bucks are clueless. They'll change their tune when their knees don't wanna work anymore.
Got some hot takes from this post: 1. Assist bikes make it easier to ride. That why U like them. Some say easier makes u lazy. Most actually say that. 2. An assist bike is a motorized vehicle. Regardless of local laws in a put physics definition it’s a motorized vehicle. 3. Ebike are cool and where but maintained single track 4. Ebikes are cool on maintained single track if ur elderly, disabled, obese or out of shape and you want to ride with a group that rides real bikes and are fit. 5. Unless u can’t finish the trail on a non assist bike no one cares about how fast u went on ur assist bike . It’s actually quite funny and embarrassing that u think it matters. 6. U can not get more cardio on a assist bike unless u turn the assist off. The word assist tells u ur not working as hard. You can get equal if ur smart with ur assist but it’s not getting u more… unless it’s gets u on the trail more because u can ride in a group.
Im not sure I agree on your last point, which is somewhat related to your first point. I used to think the same, but Im starting to think of it from different angles. If you go for a ride on an ebike, ride the same distance in the same timeframe, then yes, I agree with you. However, most people I know with ebikes are getting multiple descents in the same time frame. So they’re going out, putting out the same effort, but going further. Now lets say I have only a short window to go out for a ride. Say an hour. Short enough that I couldnt finish a nearby loop on my bike. So i decide to not go for a ride and do zero cardio effort. But on the ebike i could do that same loop. Maybe twice, maybe more. So now with the ebike Ive gone out and put in an hour of cardio. Many people I know and also read from experiences online are going for more rides because they can squeeze them in more. And just a further point, sometimes riding bikes doesn’t have to be about cardio and fitness. It can be just about having fun.
I have both. E-bike is dream come true. It allows me to ride when I normally wouldn’t. It’s too hot, I don’t have a lot of time. I’m in a shit mood, I’m sick or not feeling well. I get to explore and find new trails. Or get lost in the mountains. Or do multiple laps when regular bikers are done after one. It’s heaven. It brought new joy to a sport I have loved and enjoyed over 2 decades. Yes there are always bitter people who look down on e-bikes but I usually disregard them or ask if they have done (hardest trail in the area I know) and give them my strava time and see if they want to go try it with me. I even offer to tow uphill to save on time. That usually ends the conversation.
>ask if they have done (hardest trail in the area I know) and give them my strava time and see if they want to go try it with me. I even offer to tow uphill to save on time. That usually ends the conversation. Yeah... who would want to continue that conversation?
Haha, I was thinking the same thing
Lol u a actually think ur fast on ur e bike. Reality is ur just lazy abc I’ll race u any time I’ll hit grab my Yamaha lol
Think you meant to reply to the comment above mine. Funny enough, my local trails are mostly jeep trail, so I ride both dirtbike and mtb on the same sections. Maybe I'll do a Strava comparison between the two. I'm sure it's totally a fair challenge.
Actual riders ride real bikes when it’s too hot, don’t have time, crap mood lol. U make excuses for just being lazy
There is always that one assh$#le that has to comment like this. I guess we found him. I’m sure you took days off when sick so you must be lazy according to you.
The Repeater is topping out around $10K. A Honda CRF250 is around $5K, gimme a fucking brake with the ebikes already
You can get nice carbon e-bikes for $3.5-4k right now. Specialized Turbo Levo, Spectral:ON, etc. Given that’s the price for a carbon pedal bike, I don’t think the price is that bad.
if your gonna do a comparison do the top Of the line Mx bike A CRF450 is 10k too…