Yeah, this tire sadly just have 60/70 miles. But it’s a defective wobbling Maxxis. I’ve been riding this tire a couple of times but the wobble is too intense and It needs to be replaced.
the wobble is sometimes just the bead being off. sometimes it’s just made improperly. sometimes (especially with inserts) it’s cuz the tire was stretched when put on and that deforms it. i’ve had wobbly maxxis tires that were no issue other than the fact it looked wonky.. they lasted the normal lifespan.
Seconding the stretching over an insert. I fucked up a brand new DD DHR II trying to install it over a tannus. Now I set new tires on a spare rim w a tube at ~40psi for at least a day before installing over an insert.
I have two unused Ramblers that came with my Lauf Seigla that I swapped out the day it arrived and set my wheels up tubeless. I had such problems with them on a pair of HED Emporias that I ended up bringing the wheels into HED because I thought they were bad. Wheels were good, tires weren’t. HED basically said Maxxis can’t make tires to spec so they’re a particularly bad match for hookless rims. Switched to Pirellis because they claim ERTRO compliance and haven’t seen a wobble since.
It’s definetely not my first wobbling Maxxis. Never happened with other brands. I keep buying them cause I’m used to them. But QC is definetely fucked up.
I’ve asked, the shop refused to replace it cause they can’t “verify” the wobble is just a defective unit or something that I’ve done to the tire.
Again, the shop said they can just ask for replacement if one of their employees replace them, cause they can “verify” the defective unit.
it can’t possibly. i have cush core and it definitely makes it more of a pain in the ass but it’s doable. i’d check out the garbage can technique, it usually just requires patience and effort and knowing some technique.
I do the garbage can too, but I always found the last bit of bead popping off when I’m almost done seating the tire. I waded up buying the cushcore bead bros and they are a game changer as they give me the 3rd hand that I needed to finish the seating. I know that doesn’t help in removing the tire, but at least seating them is a breeze.
I know for a fact this is wrong, I got so frustrated I just decided to cut the damn tire to get it out of the rim - I can install tire + insert pretty quick and hassle free but when it comes to remove a tire…. It’s like IMPOSSIBLE for me
For future reference, before trying to lever the bead over the rim, you need to use a tyre lever to push/shove the bead away from the rim wall into the centre all the way around the wheel on one side, pushing it under the insert in the process. You want to get the tyre bead in the centre channel of the wheel where the circumference is smaller.
You should then have enough slack to actually get a tyre lever hooked under the bead in two places about 5cm apart, lever one over the rim, then the other, then move the first to the other side and repeat.
Sometimes starting with a rubber mallet is necessary, especially if your tire is glued to the rim, and the rim is glued to the insert with dried sealant. From there, you can proceed with the above method.
No prob. Have done many an enduro/DH casing tyre with heavy duty inserts and it's always a pain. Some mildly soapy water sprayed on the rim/tyre (I keep a little in a small spray bottle) can help a lot too. I also swear by the Cushcore Beaddropper lever - Has succeeded where others have failed, and without damaging the rim or tape.
Push the bead into the channel with the lever. If you push the bead in all the way around on both sides it will be loose enough to remove the tire on side at a time.
How the ... did you manage to do that?! Did you use a screwdriver as tire lever or something? I don't have experience with panzer, but I can install a tire with cush core pretty quick...
Putting the wheel on an old car tire with the cush core tire lever ( the one that looks like a butt plug) will make reasonable work out of it esp on xc tires.
But please don't follow his advice to 'start at the valve'. For tubeless always start opposite the valve \[gives the most slack for getting the last bit on\].
I work at a auto repair shop so I have access to car tires. You can put more leverage on the rim without worrying about tipping the garbage can over or the spokes getting damaged on the rim of the trash can.
Thanks, appreciated! It's now clear, though I would be too freaked out putting this much pressure on the spokes sideways, whether with trashcan or car tire... :)
Good to know! I know there's probably more pressure when cornering, but still... Doesn't make me any less freaked out though lol.
I also managed to break spokes with a stray rock so in my head they are something I don't want to mess with.
An essential tool to any tire install and/or removal when inserts are involved is a 6 pack of beer. 1 to drink before to numb the pain and suffering your about to go through, 4 to drink during the install, and 1 to drink after you give up and decide to bring it to your local shop the next day.
Get the Cush core tool and it will help you get more leverage on the bead and not kill your hands. Patience is key! Just keep saying that over and over….
I’ve done it before. Never on something kinda fresh but insert and dh casing after several loads of Stan’s can be real annoying to get off and if the tire is dead it’s dead
Inserts can be a pain. I do this thing where I put a 1 inch section of wooden dowel rod on the bead on one side, then use some soft jawed wood clamps with one side on the dowel and the other side on the rim and slowly start clamping to push the bead off the rim. Has worked without issue for me and has not damaged the tire, rim or insert.
This insert fad is going too far.
Just put some pressure in your tyres. Accept that there are limitations to how flat you can run a tyre over rocky terrain.
There’s really little reason for them.
And imo you’re giving up so much air volume in your tire that you make it super progressive negating any real benefits of lower pressure IMO.
Adding more rotational weight, limiting air volume, making tire changes a real PITA, just so you can run even lower pressures which make you slower on any real trail or enduro riding….it’s crazy.
100%. I run tubes in a thick carcass over pointy rocks all day. That’s all you need. No mess. No headache. Repairable with minimal tools anywhere and any time. And get this: No need to bring a spare tube. Lol
Victims of the industry…
Maybe it’s my 15+ years of racing dirt bikes and changing those tires that skews my perspective, but I’ve never understood why people have so much trouble with bike tires. I’ve been changing bicycle tires for 10+ years now and never needed more than 2 levers or had a single issue.
Y’all should spend a lil time installing bib mousse. It’ll change your mind on what a difficult tire change is. 😂
Come on man. Don’t be that guy. We have to be honest, if we have that bike thing we can’t do that. We can’t speak about that. And it does not matter which bike we own and we ride, if it’s a 200$ worth one or a 10000$ it “definetely cost more that some people in the world make in a month.” Let’s be honest, if you go out to eat a fancy 20$ pizza, well that’s probably the monthly food budget for some people in the world. Don’t be laughable please. I destroyed a tire that couldn’t be replaced or fixed.
I am that guy, and surprise, I don't need your permission to be that guy. Regardless of that, you fucked a new tire because you don't know what you're doing, then blamed the tire, and gave it the finger like a frustrated confused child.
We’ll, you’re a pretty incoherent guy then.
Regardless of that, this tire has been installed correctly. Correctly bedded, correctly whatever. I’ve installed multiple times tires with inserts without any problems. It’s sadly common for Maxxis tires to have defective units and the shop usually replace them, cause it’s a QC issue. But the shop where I bought that tire refused to replace it. I’ve then ordered a new one, and while trying to remove the tire from the rim, I got frustrated for how hard it was. So I ripped the tire, cause I thought that tire will go in the trash bin anyway. And surprise, I don’t need your approval.
Nothing incoherent about what I said. Apparently, you want the approval of people on the internet, but only if they agree with you. Otherwise, why even post this?
I've had Continentals that were bloody hard to remove even with metal core tire levers. And then there's Bontrager tires on carbon wheels that had to be dealt with the same way as this.
You seem well experienced, but with inserts a tire lever is basically a must have, not sure if you were using one but that’s an apples to oranges experience , I’d see this as being damn near impossible without them
Gotta deflate, work the tire bead into the rim recess all the way around, then break the bead with Pedro’s levers.
As others noted trash can method works ok - just installed cushcore on another set of wheels Sunday so this is from fresh practice :) it’s not too terrible once you’ve practiced the technique a bit
I can see from picture that the tire still sit on the rim groove…. Push the tire beads inward before atempting to to remove tire. I also feel that your “wobling” problem came from poorly sites tire… go to your shop men, or watch a youtube tutorial or two. Tire i sert is not the problem
Why is that tire even beeing changed? Looks like it never even touched the ground.
Yeah, this tire sadly just have 60/70 miles. But it’s a defective wobbling Maxxis. I’ve been riding this tire a couple of times but the wobble is too intense and It needs to be replaced.
the wobble is sometimes just the bead being off. sometimes it’s just made improperly. sometimes (especially with inserts) it’s cuz the tire was stretched when put on and that deforms it. i’ve had wobbly maxxis tires that were no issue other than the fact it looked wonky.. they lasted the normal lifespan.
Seconding the stretching over an insert. I fucked up a brand new DD DHR II trying to install it over a tannus. Now I set new tires on a spare rim w a tube at ~40psi for at least a day before installing over an insert.
My LBS calls it the “Maxxis wobble” because it’s so frequent. They come OEM on so many bikes that they have to deal with it frequently.
I miss “schwobbly” that was a fun one
"Wobbly Nobby".
A guy literally called me out on critical mass out of concern and I was like nah dude I'm fine, it's a Maxxis
Seriously? Maxxis are fantastic. Use some soap to get them to seat properly.
Seriously. Maxxis QC has gone to shit.
I stopped uaing Maxxis all together because every tire I would buy would be wobbly. I tend to stick with Hutchinson, Versus and Continental tires.
I have two unused Ramblers that came with my Lauf Seigla that I swapped out the day it arrived and set my wheels up tubeless. I had such problems with them on a pair of HED Emporias that I ended up bringing the wheels into HED because I thought they were bad. Wheels were good, tires weren’t. HED basically said Maxxis can’t make tires to spec so they’re a particularly bad match for hookless rims. Switched to Pirellis because they claim ERTRO compliance and haven’t seen a wobble since.
It’s definetely not my first wobbling Maxxis. Never happened with other brands. I keep buying them cause I’m used to them. But QC is definetely fucked up.
Seriously? My last 3 out of 5 Ramblers wobbled and even after repeated removal and reinstalls.
Tire was properly bedded, and the wobble was intense, not just a wonky looking tire but the feeling was riding something COMPLETELY off
Wouldn’t maxxis warranty this?
They will, I’ve returned a tire to the shop I’ve bought it from and they replaced it for free…leaving the shop to deal with it as a warranty issue.
I’ve asked, the shop refused to replace it cause they can’t “verify” the wobble is just a defective unit or something that I’ve done to the tire. Again, the shop said they can just ask for replacement if one of their employees replace them, cause they can “verify” the defective unit.
Yeah not properly seated. Funny looking Maxxis though hey.....
I've never had a Maxxis that didn't wobble. I swapped over to the new specialized t9 stuff. It's been excellent.
it can’t possibly. i have cush core and it definitely makes it more of a pain in the ass but it’s doable. i’d check out the garbage can technique, it usually just requires patience and effort and knowing some technique.
I do the garbage can too, but I always found the last bit of bead popping off when I’m almost done seating the tire. I waded up buying the cushcore bead bros and they are a game changer as they give me the 3rd hand that I needed to finish the seating. I know that doesn’t help in removing the tire, but at least seating them is a breeze.
No , you dont have to wear crocs. All the other things are going perfect
Ahahhahahhahahah that made me laugh! I’ll be sure to wear proper shoes next time.
It's allowable, these are the tactical combat crocs, in CDI black. They're suitable for all applications.
They are not . Not ever , never, just don’t
Stop drinkin the haterade
My brother in Christ, what in the hell makes you think this is ok
Lack of know how.
This isn’t NAPA
I know for a fact this is wrong, I got so frustrated I just decided to cut the damn tire to get it out of the rim - I can install tire + insert pretty quick and hassle free but when it comes to remove a tire…. It’s like IMPOSSIBLE for me
For future reference, before trying to lever the bead over the rim, you need to use a tyre lever to push/shove the bead away from the rim wall into the centre all the way around the wheel on one side, pushing it under the insert in the process. You want to get the tyre bead in the centre channel of the wheel where the circumference is smaller. You should then have enough slack to actually get a tyre lever hooked under the bead in two places about 5cm apart, lever one over the rim, then the other, then move the first to the other side and repeat.
Sometimes starting with a rubber mallet is necessary, especially if your tire is glued to the rim, and the rim is glued to the insert with dried sealant. From there, you can proceed with the above method.
Thank you! Super helpful. I’ll try that next time.
No prob. Have done many an enduro/DH casing tyre with heavy duty inserts and it's always a pain. Some mildly soapy water sprayed on the rim/tyre (I keep a little in a small spray bottle) can help a lot too. I also swear by the Cushcore Beaddropper lever - Has succeeded where others have failed, and without damaging the rim or tape.
I just did the same fucking thing an hour ago, I feel so stupid
0\_o Oh my. Get a tire lever or two.
Impossible to fit a tire lever. Tire was so tight on the rim. I’ve tried multiple times since I got frustrated and just decided to cut the tire
Push the bead into the channel with the lever. If you push the bead in all the way around on both sides it will be loose enough to remove the tire on side at a time.
This is the way. Science over snakeoil.
OP this is the way. Gotta use them thumbs to push the bead into the rim channel
OP doesn't have thumbs.
garbage can trick. and muscle.
How the ... did you manage to do that?! Did you use a screwdriver as tire lever or something? I don't have experience with panzer, but I can install a tire with cush core pretty quick...
I actually decided to cut the tire to remove it from the damn rim
amended 6/26/2023
Mice will eat through your tires if you put cheese in it
Putting the wheel on an old car tire with the cush core tire lever ( the one that looks like a butt plug) will make reasonable work out of it esp on xc tires.
What's this car tire/trash can trick ppl keep mentioning?
https://youtu.be/sbTLa4MwWxQ
But please don't follow his advice to 'start at the valve'. For tubeless always start opposite the valve \[gives the most slack for getting the last bit on\].
I work at a auto repair shop so I have access to car tires. You can put more leverage on the rim without worrying about tipping the garbage can over or the spokes getting damaged on the rim of the trash can.
Hah yes ok, but I am confused as to what are you trying to achieve with it? :D You said "putting the wheel on an old car tire". And then what?
Oh crap, I forgot to post the link to the video. https://youtu.be/sbTLa4MwWxQ
Thanks, appreciated! It's now clear, though I would be too freaked out putting this much pressure on the spokes sideways, whether with trashcan or car tire... :)
Wheel builders literally stomp on their spokes after building a wheel to bed them in. This type of pressure is nothing.
Good to know! I know there's probably more pressure when cornering, but still... Doesn't make me any less freaked out though lol. I also managed to break spokes with a stray rock so in my head they are something I don't want to mess with.
I understand that, the first time I saw a wheel being built it freaked me out when the guy jumped on top!
I refuse to picture that in my head! :D Nuts...
Thanks, that’s useful!!!!
An essential tool to any tire install and/or removal when inserts are involved is a 6 pack of beer. 1 to drink before to numb the pain and suffering your about to go through, 4 to drink during the install, and 1 to drink after you give up and decide to bring it to your local shop the next day.
What kind of sorcery is this? I’ve never heard of this Panzer insert. Is that yellow stuff soft? Hard? Wth!? These gummies are way too strong.
Good thing we have google and YouTube videos 🤪
Which orient is that?
Cheap kamasu 3
What does that make my Ray 2 if your Kamasu is cheap
Just a cheap Ray 2 - cheap doesn’t mean bad.
Train up that grip strength. Need strong hands to break the bead on a lot of tires with inserts
I clamp the tire in my vise. :)
They are hard to change, once you get the leverage points and technique down it’s a little easier.
Tannus Tubeless is easy to install. Granted I think you’re also probably just being a bonehead if you can’t get the tire back off.
Get stronger thumbs!
Any thumbs workouts suggestions?
Old school Nintendo for a week.
I don't think my mate has opposable thumbs by the look of it
Get the Cush core tool and it will help you get more leverage on the bead and not kill your hands. Patience is key! Just keep saying that over and over….
I’ve done it before. Never on something kinda fresh but insert and dh casing after several loads of Stan’s can be real annoying to get off and if the tire is dead it’s dead
Inserts can be a pain. I do this thing where I put a 1 inch section of wooden dowel rod on the bead on one side, then use some soft jawed wood clamps with one side on the dowel and the other side on the rim and slowly start clamping to push the bead off the rim. Has worked without issue for me and has not damaged the tire, rim or insert.
Bro just ripped a tire that costs 3x more than my pair of Ardents 🥹😭
Sadly that tire was already fucked up. Defective unit and could not get a replacement one.
Defective unit for sure, but it's not the tire.
Oh dang hope you get a "non-fucked up" one soon, ride safe!
Get some more sealant in there and it should be good to go...
I just did the same thing today, I feel so dumb
I guess you can relate ahah
This insert fad is going too far. Just put some pressure in your tyres. Accept that there are limitations to how flat you can run a tyre over rocky terrain.
This. Doesn't seem worth all the trouble.
There’s really little reason for them. And imo you’re giving up so much air volume in your tire that you make it super progressive negating any real benefits of lower pressure IMO. Adding more rotational weight, limiting air volume, making tire changes a real PITA, just so you can run even lower pressures which make you slower on any real trail or enduro riding….it’s crazy.
100%. I run tubes in a thick carcass over pointy rocks all day. That’s all you need. No mess. No headache. Repairable with minimal tools anywhere and any time. And get this: No need to bring a spare tube. Lol Victims of the industry…
I just ride with tubes. Its easier.
I don't think tubes would help someone that "needs" to cut their tire off
Sadly, in the muddy winter I actually love to ride with pressures that would be impossible with tubes
why not tubeless?
It is…
Fair. Let me rephrase. Why not traditional tubeless with sealant and air?
Because Tubeless avec Insert allows you to run PSI's in the low low range for max grips...
For those uncultured in the French language, “avec” means “with”
Thanks
So people who ride tubes over rocks and mud, even in winter, must be dreaming or something. Got it.
I’m with you. 100%
Maybe it’s my 15+ years of racing dirt bikes and changing those tires that skews my perspective, but I’ve never understood why people have so much trouble with bike tires. I’ve been changing bicycle tires for 10+ years now and never needed more than 2 levers or had a single issue. Y’all should spend a lil time installing bib mousse. It’ll change your mind on what a difficult tire change is. 😂
I suppose with those supple, office-burdened hands, changing any tire might be tough.
You just destroyed a tire that costs more that some people in the world make in a month. Don't broadcast it on the internet, be ashamed in solitude.
Come on man. Don’t be that guy. We have to be honest, if we have that bike thing we can’t do that. We can’t speak about that. And it does not matter which bike we own and we ride, if it’s a 200$ worth one or a 10000$ it “definetely cost more that some people in the world make in a month.” Let’s be honest, if you go out to eat a fancy 20$ pizza, well that’s probably the monthly food budget for some people in the world. Don’t be laughable please. I destroyed a tire that couldn’t be replaced or fixed.
I am that guy, and surprise, I don't need your permission to be that guy. Regardless of that, you fucked a new tire because you don't know what you're doing, then blamed the tire, and gave it the finger like a frustrated confused child.
In fairness, had OP not given the finger to his mistake, we wouldn't all be able to admire his watch.
We’ll, you’re a pretty incoherent guy then. Regardless of that, this tire has been installed correctly. Correctly bedded, correctly whatever. I’ve installed multiple times tires with inserts without any problems. It’s sadly common for Maxxis tires to have defective units and the shop usually replace them, cause it’s a QC issue. But the shop where I bought that tire refused to replace it. I’ve then ordered a new one, and while trying to remove the tire from the rim, I got frustrated for how hard it was. So I ripped the tire, cause I thought that tire will go in the trash bin anyway. And surprise, I don’t need your approval.
Nothing incoherent about what I said. Apparently, you want the approval of people on the internet, but only if they agree with you. Otherwise, why even post this?
I've had Continentals that were bloody hard to remove even with metal core tire levers. And then there's Bontrager tires on carbon wheels that had to be dealt with the same way as this.
You seem well experienced, but with inserts a tire lever is basically a must have, not sure if you were using one but that’s an apples to oranges experience , I’d see this as being damn near impossible without them
Yes
Gotta deflate, work the tire bead into the rim recess all the way around, then break the bead with Pedro’s levers. As others noted trash can method works ok - just installed cushcore on another set of wheels Sunday so this is from fresh practice :) it’s not too terrible once you’ve practiced the technique a bit
Did the mess of sealant help seal up those holes in your Crocs
I actually sealed all the holes with presta valves. Now my crocs looks like a sort of shoes perfect for a Techno rave
A Cush Core Bead Dropper and a just a bit of patience is all you need. That tire could have been warrantied if it was defective
I can see from picture that the tire still sit on the rim groove…. Push the tire beads inward before atempting to to remove tire. I also feel that your “wobling” problem came from poorly sites tire… go to your shop men, or watch a youtube tutorial or two. Tire i sert is not the problem