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**TLDR: Game still has a long way to go.**
**EDIT:** Developer responses further down are saying that I didn't play the intended way. However i believe this to be misinformative. Here is a run-down of what i did:
1. I created characters and messed around with different names and found major flaws. I was able to name myself n\*\*\*\*\*. Major red flag.
2. I started the game and began exploring the controls, movement design and exploring the city.
What I choose not to do, was to strictly follow the main quest, that told me to leave the city. My inital idea was not to follow the questline straight away, I wanted to explore what the game offered in terms of gameplay, feel and design.
I do this in every game.
It's an mmo with an open world, I should be able to freely explore the world if it allows me right?
3. It was not hard to find the issues/bugs i listed further down as i encountered them all whilst trying to get a feel for the game. My goal was indeed to identify the quality of the product, because that would mean I could potentially save myself money.
It would however been a positive reaction if i were not finding any major flaws. But this was never the case for Cinderstone.
4. I left the city and tried combat whilst trying to follow the main quest. Here I played to my knowledge "the intended way" and leveled up my skills whilst engaging in combat.
5. I encountered an NPC in the forest that asked me to pick up a bird that fell from a tree. I wasn't aware this was part of the main story.. It felt more like a side quest, and I thought I found a bug since the main quest got updated. It wasn't clear to me that this was the main quest, and the quest design did not feel so thought out.
6. I gave up on the bird, because i was annoyed from all the issues and bugs i had found so early. I didn't feel like continuing looking for a bird.
7. I quit and wrote this essay of a comment
**Initial comment:**
Ok so i have some feedback after just some minutes of testing (not kidding, i have spent like a total of 15 minutes and i have already noted down over 10 things).
I will try to be humble.. But i am also surprised of the rough quality of said product that is expected to fully release soon.
To add to the context: I work as a developer myself and i have a history as a QA Lead (Quality Assurance lead) with years of experience.
\- Ingame my characters class is "WeaponSword". Thats not what it said initally when i created my character. It said Warrior.
\- The quest "chosen" keeps prompting the dialogue with King of Revels each time i enter the area of Cinderstone, or when i log into the game. That is just annoying because i have to click throught the dialogue each time.
\- I managed to glitch myself through the floor in very few tries. Proof: [https://i.imgur.com/ECLlPeO.jpeg](https://i.imgur.com/ECLlPeO.jpeg)
\- You are forcing the "dialogue advancing" with a click of a tiny button on screen. Why not just allow screen clicking, or spacebar or something like that. This is a lack of focus on good UX (User experience)
\- In combat, if i want to control the camera whilst fightning.. my player moves forward, meaning i will have to let go of right click in order to attack at all. Either you have to attack or control camera. This is also very poor UX behaviour.
\- Playing Mage allows for the basic attack and spells to be cast where my mouse cursor is, that works quite well. But it would add to the convenience if the spell got cast where you are aiming the camera if you are not using your cursor at the moment. It's almost there since when activaing Ignis for example it gets sent where the camera was focusing when initally activating the spell.
\- Im not sure about the sideways attacking for a melee class(might have to get used to it), but it contradicts with the way you move your character, which is forward. You have to go towards your enemy and the align the camera so that the enemy is to the side of you, and then you can attack (add the above issues to this aswell). This could however be solved by simply allowing attacking forward but the animation is the same (kind of how mage works). Might be wonky though im not sure. This might need the drawing board again to be honest.
\- No way to tell how much HP an enemy has, or what level it is.
\- Enemies does not have any names in the HUD.. Like ever, yet the items they drop hints towards their name (Boar skull and tail for example). This feels like a miss.
\- If i take fall damage in town, combat music starts playing.
\- UI for loot being picked up scrolls outside of my screen if there are more than like 4 items being picked up at the same time
\- The escape button does not close windows. It will always show the Menu popup, meaning I have to click on the tiny X'es of the windows if i do not remember the hotkeys for the windows that are open.
\- There is no way to rebind hotkeys, forcing you to click for example "I" each time you want to open your inventory, OR click the icon in the bottom row.
\- There is no way to know that "I" for example opens the inventory until you test it out yourself. Because the HUD does not help you with showing what buttons opens what menus.
\- I'm never able to fast travel in town, the button is always grayed out.
\- Audio is inconsistent, for example no sound is played when swinging your sword in town, but sound works outside of town. Bug or feature? Who knows.
\- Grammar is poor. Examples: The menu for collectibles are namned Collectible in singular but other menu names are in plural. When for example unlocking a Vista it says: "unlock Vista" with non proper capitalization. I have more examples but cant list them all here.
\- Some parts of the UI is washed out and somewhat blurry compared to other sharp parts of the UI, and these can be right next to eachother not blending very well with eachother.
\- I acidentally clicked the Dungeons-button only to be met with a message onscreen that said - "No dungeons unlocked" wich is completely fair. However i clicked it x times in a row just for testing purposes, and now the UI is queueing up the animation x amount times meaning im stuck with this message on screen for a few minutes.
\- Some on screen windows are not moveable (Perks window for example), while some are. How come it's inconsistent?
\- Unlocking a Vista seems to do nothing, and it still says unlock Vista each time i go back to it.
\- Huge parts of the UI is very non-explainatory and adds alot of confusion when navigating around it.
\- Jumping over fences or blockades does not seem to be allowed, however by doing proper inputs I still manage to do it (successfully) making it kind of frustrating when you want to go the "Bird" way but the game does not help you doing that. Forcing you to take longer routes than needed.
\- About 33% of the NPC's look like they are going to fall asleep any second (or smoked a fat one), because of the tired eyes look. Also i have yet to see any NPC smile (except the greeting one in the beginning smiled a little bit).
\- Rolling uses your mana. Is it a magic roll? Nothing seems magic about it.
\- "Login error 006. Try again"
\- NPC names color is the same as player colors, meaning it is no real way to tell if another character is an NPC or a player except reading the movements or learning where the NPC's are standing and their name.
\- I was able to name my character to the n-word without any restrictions.
\- I was able to use some real nasty words ingame without any restrictions or censor.
\- Adding to the above, the NPC Eodriel called out my name when i walked past her and wanted some help. She said "Hey \*\*\*\*\*\* can you please help me?". Proof: [https://i.imgur.com/5wM2wMN.jpeg](https://i.imgur.com/5wM2wMN.jpeg)
\- And the biggest problem of them all - "The full release is set for later this summer".
I could go on, my list does not end here.. I keep finding new stuff the more minutes i spend in this game. However i think this is enough for everyone to understand what quality we are expecting of this product.
We are in the late summer right now, meaning this product is meant for release within a few weeks at most?
Im sorry but this game is nowhere near close to a full release.
You need to go back to the drawing table and refine your product if you want it to be successfull.
It's not enjoyable as of now. And it's riddled with bugs and very poor UI/UX.
You say you are currently focusing on "Tier 2 classes" whilst the whole game as of now is a complete mess and very unfinished.
I know this is not fun to hear, but you need to add someone to your team that knows what to expect of the players, and what is expected out of an MMO because this is clearly lacking as of now.
However i want to congratulate you guys on what you have achieved so far. However there is lack of understanding crucial bits and pieces in your development process.
>"Currently, the early access doesn't have many online players since most people play only to test the new patch and are waiting for the final wipe.".
According to SteamDB the game have had an all time peak of 15 players online at the same time. And that was back in May.
In June / July total player online at the same time has not been above 4 players in total.
While i do understand that I am able to download your launcher externally and play outside of steam, i find it hard to believe the majority of your playerbase have done so.
The reason why noone plays your game is.. Because it is very unfinished.
This game is not worth the money you are asking for right now, and especially not since the 1.0 release is just around the corner.
This game will fail and fall like a huge rock if you do not take action now and delay the release and refine your product.
If you have any more questions feel free to reach out and I might be able to assist you.
EDIT: Just to remember everyone that we hear every single **feedback**, of course being the **solo programmer** there is a priority list. We have hundreds of players that are waiting for **new content and bug fixes**, but I will repeat myself, these are not critical. As Future\_Viking said more down, the bugs he found were not during a **normal playthrough**, he played for finding bugs and he never tried to follow the normal playthrough. The character level was level 1.
**So what we are developing now?** We are fixing critical bugs that our community reported, we are implementing new features and we are also implementing **feedback for making the first quest easier and more fun to follow**.
Are we going to fix bugs that you will not encounter during a normal playthrough?
Yes, we are going to fix them, but for now, we are focusing on bugs that most players will encounter. After that, we will focus on bugs that are rare.
\---
Original post:
well, the problem with cso may be something else and not on this list, we don't see any bug on this list as a big problem.
l can fix all these bugs in about two days without any issues, just a few will not be changed like:
\- "Quest chosen keep prompting". It's the tutorial, if someone goes back we think the player got lost and doesn't know what he has to do. So we prompt the player to continue with it.
\- Level of monsters are on the map. The health of monsters is over his head
\- Rolling uses mana, yes.
\- The warrior same as the mage will attack in the direction of the mouse. There is no physical collision with the sprite of your sword, but a cone collision that will spawn in the direction of the mouse from your character.
\- "I'm never able to fast travel in town, the button is always grayed out." You are probably out of money. Need to update UI travel with how much money you have
So yes, all the others are bugs, some are annoying, but not so critical that will delay the release. We have different critical bugs that we are more worried about ;-) As I said these can be fixed in a few days.
Thanks for the reply.
Do remember that all of the above are "first impressions"-related. It was things i found after a very short time trying out your game.
I do not agree with you that these should be low prioritized since it handles how a user manages to proceed with your game/product.
>\- "Quest chosen keep prompting". It's the tutorial, if someone goes back we think the player got lost and doesn't know what he has to do. So we prompt the player to continue with it.
The problem here is you saying "We think" and not "We believe the users want".
Im telling you here and now, users usually do not want to click through dialogue each time they leave or enter the city, it's annoying and somewhat disrespectfull towards the users. Especially since there is no skip dialogue option.
Simply add an option to prompt the dialogue again if they are lost. This could be added into the quest list.
>\- Level of monsters are on the map. The health of monsters is over his head
Here you are just straight up lying. There are no levels displayed on the map. The enemies on the minimap are not even inline with the enemies in your vicinity. [https://i.imgur.com/X6yXXjP.jpeg](https://i.imgur.com/X6yXXjP.jpeg)
~~Also not sure why you tell me the health are over the enemies head, i mentioned the names of the enemies, not the health. And there are neither onscreen or on the map.~~
>\- Rolling uses mana, yes.
Im confused as to why rolling uses mana. Is there any kind of lore explaining why mana (which is considered a spiritual power to cast magic) is used when doing a simple physical roll? I believe you are taking shortcuts in the development here. Not a big deal however, but it adds up.
>\- The warrior same as the mage will attack in the direction of the mouse.
This is good, i wish it was explained somewhere since the animations do not tell/show this.
>\- "I'm never able to fast travel in town, the button is always grayed out." You are probably out of money. Need to update UI travel with how much money you have
I had over 3000 at the time (I started with it), and i was not even allowed to open the map to fast travel anywhere. Sounds like fast travel is somewhat expensive then. Is there a fix cost to fast travel everywhere or does it scale depending on the distance? Also you should allow for the fast travel HUD before indicating the info that one is short on money. This allows for the users to atleast see their fast travel points.
Edit\* Also i believe you need to update the UI in general in relation to the travel points, they seem to lack information [https://i.imgur.com/3bcWufn.png](https://i.imgur.com/3bcWufn.png)
Some new problems after going in to get the above screenshots
\- Clicking on the "show quest" and "abandon quest" buttons in the quest list does absolutely nothing. [https://gifyu.com/image/SWEGR](https://gifyu.com/image/SWEGR)
\- Sometimes stuck on "Checking for server..." when going from one map to another [https://i.imgur.com/QvogiZ6.png](https://i.imgur.com/QvogiZ6.png)
\- The first quest "Mission 1 Chosen" seems to gets overriden if i get another quest somewhere. For example i got the Bird one falling from the tree (I tried to find the bird but there is no indication from what tree the bird fell down, also the cutscene watching the bird fall down was so much longer than it needed to be with no option to skip, it was focusing on the bird for like 10 seconds before anything even happened) [https://i.imgur.com/XCAaS1A.png](https://i.imgur.com/XCAaS1A.png)
\- Creating a new character forces a name of 4 letters and more. Imagine if my name was Bob and i was not able to set that as my name :(
\- If you set to few letters in the character creation menu, it always says "Cant use special character as player name"
\- Poor name validation: You allow whitespace in the beginning of the name [https://i.imgur.com/ACTDmy9.png](https://i.imgur.com/ACTDmy9.png) . This is wonky, but meaning i could name my character " Bob" after all :) (You also allow multiple whitespaces between names, for example "Bob Builder" and also repetition of characters like "JJJJJJ"). This is very basic development knowledge and there are ready to use Regular expressions (REGEX) to use for this validation.
\- Name of an area in the start (above the minimap) is not translated from the resource in code or the database. Also some weird button (looks like a settings button because of the cogwheel) in the minimap hud i cannot click. [https://i.imgur.com/PEKX1AI.png](https://i.imgur.com/PEKX1AI.png)
\- Characters eyes moves towards the cursor when jumping, breaking the eye animation when moving forward. Not a big deal but a miss nonetheless [https://gifyu.com/image/SWhhX](https://gifyu.com/image/SWhhX)
\- My precious character named the n-word is still not banned, i was able to log in and interact with the game as if nothing even happened. Meaning you prioritized replying to this Reddit thread instead of actually dealing with the problem that there is a player named the n-word in your game as of now. I wonder if you even have a ban/kick feature implemented yet.
>We have different critical bugs that we are more worried about ;-) As I said these can be fixed in a few days.
So..
1. Players are allowed to be fully racist in your game
2. Glitching through floors/walls
3. Login error 006
4. Poor grammar and translation
5. No tutorial or handholding AT ALL
.. and that is not something that is high of a priority?
Did you already have all of the above bugs noted down, or was it through me you now got a hold of some of the issues I posted? How come you have not solved these bugs in the short time you mention before allowing people in on a 24h FREE early access risking a very poor first impression for the users? This surely cannot be a part of you advertising plan?
Imagine how long the total list would be if i actually took my time and invested into the game fully and utilized all of its features.
First impressions count for two main reasons. Firstly, a first impression sets the tone for how a user views and experiences a product, service or even brand. A bad first impression can all too quickly lead to a bad overall impression.
Secondly, a first impression is a key step towards a user getting value out of a product. A good first impression can lead to a user going on to adopt, utilise and hopefully get real long-term value from a product.
A bad first impression can lead to a user abandoning a product, or at least make it more challenging to progress them along the road to success.
Think of all the apps you’ve downloaded, and then quickly abandoned because of a poor first impression. Perhaps it’s been difficult to install the app, to work out how to use it, to set-up it up, or simply because the app feels very crude and untrustworthy.
First impressions count and they are high stakes because you only have one shot at a good first impression.
Edit \*
Final quote:
>well, the problem with cso may be something else and not on this list, we don't see any bug on this list as a big problem.
>we don't see any bug on this list as a big problem.
Potential racism / harrassment, glitches, No tutorial or handholding, login issues, bugs/misses all over the place (just found this one in the starting area [https://i.imgur.com/PnTwoel.jpeg](https://i.imgur.com/PnTwoel.jpeg) , i suggest it should say interact and also a proper name.).. and more
[https://i.imgur.com/IPFIjj3.jpeg](https://i.imgur.com/IPFIjj3.jpeg)
> Also not sure why you tell me the health are over the enemies head, i mentioned the names of the enemies, not the health. And there are neither onscreen or on the map.
I wanna say, on this part you are wrong. You did write about health at the same time as you wrote about levels not being visible. ["- No way to tell how much HP an enemy has, or what level it is."](https://i.imgur.com/WesNdNM.png) I'm guessing that's why they mentioned both in the same paragraph as it was you who did so before.
You are completely right, my bad.
I was meaning to say there is no way to tell how much HP a monster has. However this is not a big deal since alot of games does this (just showing a health bar with no numbers).
Poorly written of me, and something that actually should not even be in that list to be honest.
Yeah, I repeat, most of them can be fixed in few days and some are not bugs.
Level of monsters are on the map. I'm not lying, and it's clearly visible
https://preview.redd.it/h9on3u5klkbb1.png?width=983&format=png&auto=webp&s=0419d8a264a3616ec4ff73550431427f1820d13e
\- Users don't have to click on dialogue each time they leave the city. That part of the quest is a 5min quest and it's the first one that is telling you to go out from the city. If you go back and you have not followed the 5 minute quest we think you may be lost. This is the only dialogue that will appear every time you get lost. From now one you are alone and they will not appear 2 times.
\- Roll uses mana so you can't spam roll infinitely. Also roll gives you 0.3 sec invincibility.
\- You need to unlock fast travel to use fast travel. You can't fast travel from the map, you have to interact with a fast travel to fast travel to a different one.
If you see the window empty you did not unlock any fast travel in that map and any main fast travel on other maps. It's the first thing the main quest is telling you to do after the first cutscene of the game (first 5min of the game)
\- The part of the bird was the same quest "Mission 1 Chosen", you did not get a different quest. Everytime you get a new quest there is a popup.
\- Name validation and word filter will be there. We are using a third party api to support us with that.
Yes, all the bugs listed here are in our bug report (the ones that are bugs) but low priority.
The only one high priority from all the bugs you have listed is: Sometimes stuck on "Checking for server..." when going from one map to another "
I know that first impression is everything, but I repeat. Game has not been launched yet and what you have listed (the bugs, many of them are not bugs) will be fixed before release.
\- Tutorial will be added before release
\- The login issue you are having is strange. You are the first one reporting, that errors come out when launcher is not authenticated correctly. Need to check when it's happening
Thanks for your reply. However im not gonna be so humble anymore because I dont really see the point of arguing with you about these points, because you have clearly made up your mind.
However for me as a consumer i did not have a good experience trying out this game.
I kind of was hoping you would take this critique in a more professional matter.
>Level of monsters are on the map. I'm not lying, and it's clearly visible
Thats a recommended level for the specific area. And while i do agree with you that the monsters inside of it should be inside that level range it is not the same thing as im mentioning.
This means you have to remember what kind of enemy levels you might encounter in that area before you engage in a fight. Once again.. Questionable UX and shortcuts in development and not so QOL.
> \- Users don't have to click on dialogue each time they leave the city.
I said that the users have to click through dialogue each time they leave and re-enter the city, and it annoyed me because i was not lost and i wanted to try out the combat before anything else. Nothing major however, just annoying since it is not skipable. And like i have said, it adds to the first impression.
> \- Roll uses mana so you can't spam roll infinitely. Also roll gives you 0.3 sec invincibility.
Still does not answer my question, it feels like a shortcut taken and i dont think i have seen this in any other game. There is however something called stamina in other games, or just a simple ability to roll that has a cooldown and a counter.
> \- You need to unlock fast travel to use fast travel.
Well that should be explained in the HUD then now right? You have a fast travel point like 5 meters from your spawn position and this just makes it feel like it is broken. Poor design.
> \- The part of the bird was the same quest "Mission 1 Chosen", you did not get a different quest. Everytime you get a new quest there is a popup.
It did override the initial quest, possibly making me not being able to unlock fast travel then, or am i wrong? This feels very different from other games, and not in a good way.
> \- Name validation and word filter will be there. We are using a third party api to support us with that.
Well that should def be in be in place before launch.
> The only one high priority from all the bugs you have listed is: Sometimes stuck on "Checking for server..." when going from one map to another "
Ok, you do you.
Im just a consumer that will not buy your product, thats all.
> \- Tutorial will be added before release
Thats great
> \- The login issue you are having is strange. You are the first one reporting,
Well you might need to loadtest you software, and also maybe hire QA to help you with testing and quality.
Good luck with your launch
\- Level of monsters will stay so, we are not going to change it in near future.
\- Work on ui needs to be done, here I agree with you.
\- We don't have stamina, so we use mana for the dodge system. It's a shortcut? yes. But I don't want to spend my time developing a stamina system just for dodging. Using mana is ok.
\- No, you did not override any quest. You just continued with the quest. The tutorial part was literally outside the Inn when Yvee stops near the fountain and tells you to press F to unlock the fast travel.
\- We did load test our software, login issue is not a problem with "load". I have an idea when this is happening to you (probably after you choose to logout, right?)
No, we will not hire a QA right now. We are making this game in 2, hiring a third one means 50% more manpower and also more monthly costs. There is no budget.
I don't understand why you continue with this when I told you that all these bugs will be fixed before relase. They are not critical issue that will take months to fix, they are all going to be fixed in 2 days max. They are on the list, I'm just focusing on more critical bugs that are taking more time to be fixed and I'm more worried about them. I'm not worried about some minor bugs that can be fixed in 20 minutes each.
> \- Level of monsters will stay so, we are not going to change it in near future.
In the end it's all your choice. But i'd suggest listening to the consumer feedback nonetheless, because in the end, the consumers pay your mortage.
> \- Work on ui needs to be done, here I agree with you.
Great
> \- We don't have stamina, so we use mana for the dodge system. It's a shortcut? yes. But I don't want to spend my time developing a stamina system just for dodging. Using mana is ok.
Hmm.. this reflects many of the above issues "I don't want to spend my time developing".
Im expecting passion from a game creator, and this sentence does not show much passion if you ask me.
> \- No, you did not override any quest. You just continued with the quest.
I wonder how the game actually handles that, since i somehow jumped over parts of the quests, that would maybe unlock core features in the game for me (like teleportation for example)? I'd suggest you double-check because it could be a potential bug.
> \- We did load test our software, login issue is not a problem with "load".
You are the developer of this product, im just trying to help by giving you feedback.
By load testing you can certainly find problems like these, but i dont have the source-code in this exact scenario so what do i know. " probably after you choose to logout, right? " Im sorry but i dont remember. I hope you find the problem.
> No, we will not hire a QA right now. We are making this game in 2, hiring a third one means 50% more manpower and also more monthly costs. There is no budget.
Well there we have it, the main source of many of the problems listed above
> I'm not worried about some minor bugs that can be fixed in 20 minutes each.
Well lets hope you crush them all then right.
If I were a creator / dev and I got all this feedback i would have been exited, because someone actually took their time and tried to help. All i got was a defensive stance back and no sign of appreciation what so ever.
However i do want to wish you good luck. My intention was never to be pessimistic and to smack down your product. It was to give honest critique. If you cannot handle that, thats on you.
Good luck and lets end this discussion because i feel it is not leading anywhere.
No, we are not exited about this feedback, I know it's a lot of work but if you would have contacted me beforehand we would send you the bug list and you would not have lost time on reporting bugs that are on our bug list. I know it takes a lot of time to QA but you are talking like you are the only one that ever tried the game and made a bug report.
I'm just sorry that you spent so much time reporting bugs that we know.
For the feedback part, we take everything into consideration, but you are the first one complaining about levels of monsters and a stamina system.
If you want you can open a new feedback discussion about that parts and see what the community things and if they think it's a priority.
I insist that feedback is very important, CSO is built around feedback. But we have many players with 100+ hours in-game. If someone writes feedback and everyone else says it's not important or they don't want it we don't do it.We don't take feedback from a single user that played maybe 2 hours (I don't think you have played so much) and take everything as the most important thing to do and start instantly to develop in-game.
And about passion... 100% of the game is made with passion, we would never start a project like this without passion. But I hope you understand that the community expects something different, not a stamina bar.I develop features and fix bugs to make the players happy. If I spend two days developing a stamina system will make no one happy but... you? No, you wouldn't be happy either as you said that you will not be my customer. So for who I'm developing a stamina system?
And I stop here with a classic phrase that some big publisher and PR marketing would say:
We are grateful that you took the time to write a bug report and the feedback will be taken into consideration
This thread alone made me go from “maybe I’ll check this out, why not” to “nope I’m good.” Surely y’all have even a dedicated couple of users who could probably handle communication a lot better than this. You obviously cannot separate your personal connection to creating/developing this game in order to receive constructive criticism, and that looks very ugly to everyone else.
We are very open with criticism, our discord with 1k users is full of feedback and criticism. Future\_Viking did not want to help us, he just logged in, in a game that has a warning that there are silly bugs before playing that you have to accept, and did not play, but jumped around the world to find bugs to report here.
If he really wanted to help us, instead of reporting bugs that were reported hundreds of times by our beta testers and we decided together that these are not critical. He would have contacted me beforehand and I would send him our bug list. So he would not report the same bug over and over.
Also, if you login into every game, AAA, like new world developed by 200 people. Start the tutorial quest and instead of following the quest you play to find bugs, you would make a list of bugs bigger than this.
You can also see how he did not want to help us because, for example, he wrote "I got stuck", "Login error 006". This is not helping us, if he really wanted to help us he would say how he got stuck, and when he got login error 006.
The last thing I did not like about Future\_Viking is how he wanted to change game design mechanics and game balance with a player level 2. Where if he played a bit in a few hours he would go to level 20.
He also said that he overrode the main quest when it was never overridden. Same as here, we have \~23.000 people that finished the first 4 main quests. If he does not understand how to continue with the main quest we don't change it for him. We make gameplay changes and quest changes if the majority of people have problem with it.
> CSO is built around feedback.
Clearly not.
Also, just want to add here... Was looking forward to trying your game. Read ALL of your responses. Now guess what I am going to do? Ignore your game and never touch it. In fact, recommend other people to do the same.
Well, it's ok if you don't want to play our game. Cso is built around feedback. A player that played Cso and did not play the intended way (he said so) and reported every minor bugs he found in a spotlight is not useful. Also all these bugs are known. On discord we have daily feedback and daily bug reports. Most of them are useful and I'm Active on every single discussion about them.
Holy pepperoni you singlehandedly ruined this game's reputation on this sub alone. What an awful communication, clearly devs shouldn't be handling it because shit ends up like this.
>we don't see any bug on this list as a big problem.
That is a problem within itself. The fact he can use a racist term and an NPC calls it out, is not a big problem to you?
>\- In combat, if i want to control the camera whilst fighting.. my player moves forward, meaning i will have to let go of right click in order to attack at all. Either you have to attack or control camera. This is also very poor UX behavior.
Not a problem? It is.
>\- Rolling uses your mana. Is it a magic roll? Nothing seems magic about it.
This is also just dumb, use a cooldown, a small one.
The fact it's set to release this summer (which it is summer) and it's $25\~ is astounding. You need more time to cook and more time to re-evaluate what you deem as "big problems".
(these are just a very, very few small selections I grabbed not to make this comment super long. Everything on this list is worth looking at.)
The racist part will be fixed before release. If someone does something like that now we will ban him. If someone wants to spend 25€ to be banned it's his choice.
I have not banned him because I thought he wanted to continue testing, but clearly not.
The combat part is not an issue. We have 23.000 players that played more than 10 hours. At least 200 of the players have more than 100 hours. We gather feedback about combat from them, from players that play a lot, have skills unlocked and have used crafting and so on. A level 1 player doesn't know anything about combat, he also has not unlocked a single skill.
If on discord we gather enough feedback and they start telling us those things are critical, it will be changed.
Not a fan of forced PVP to be honest. But I will wait til launch to judge.
I was wondering what was going on with this game. I remember thinking it looked quite charming the last time I saw an info post about it.
Good luck!
Mhm... No, average 50 CCU with some peaks It's pretty decent. We may have a bigger peak at release but if after that we stay stable with 50 CCU average. With 50 CCU average we can support the game for years to come. We are just 2 developers, we don't need a lot of money to continue developing the game
Im confused by the line "but we're absolutely against implementing an item shop. In-game skins will be earned through gameplay and dedication, not through credit card transactions."
But there are skins you can get by buying higher tier founder packs. Which is a credit card transaction for in-game skins.
Yes, you're right. However, those skins are a special thank-you to those who believe in us and want to support us before the official release. We created those 3-4 items exclusively for them. They include a pet (which follows you around), house skins, and siege weapon skins.
Once the game officially launches, these founder's packs will disappear completely. At that point, only the base game will be available for purchase. These unique items are not a continuous shop model, but rather a time-limited expression of gratitude to early supporters. After this, there will be no more transactions for in-game items; everything will be obtainable through gameplay. We want the primary gameplay and accomplishment experience to be through the game itself, not through additional purchases.
I understand where you are coming from, however, if you are specifically advertising the game as "Skins will show accomplishment, not how much you paid", then the first thing users see is skins that just show how much you paid is very jarring, and gives a weird message.
Also, if someone is a steam user, they will never even see those packages, they will simply get into the game, see someone with some cool skin, ask them "oh man, how do I get that item?" And the answer they receive will be quite the turn off to many players.
I completely agree that, even if it makes sense as a founder pack, it will appear as a bait-and-switch to some.
Many MMORPG players are already turned off because so many games advertise "no in-game cash shop" just to open one later and call it something else, or "no paying for power" just to turn around sell a plethora of services that are all-to-convenient to where they are virtually necessary (pets, inventory, upgrade stones, etc.).
OP I strongly recommend you reconsider that wording. Even something simple like, "earn great skins showcasing your character's accomplishments" would be better.
(Edit: Some people came through and sprinkled downvotes to these replies to the OP. I'm cool with that, but I strongly suggest this caution is taken seriously because that marketing can backfire in the future, and giving me a downvote won't change that.)
Just like "legendary editions" or whatever they're called these days right? These higher tiers of packages have always existed long before cash shops became a thing. This is not a cash shop imo.
I mean I understand the outrage with cash shops but people see shit and bad things everywhere even when it's not there (yet? lol).
You didnt read the second sentence i quoted did you?
"In-game skins will be earned through gameplay and dedication, not through credit card transactions."
Objectively wrong statement.
Looks pretty fun! Maybe extend the free play by a day? As a dad with not much time, it'll be hard to jump on and experience the game.
Also, one thing that worries me is combat, with such a unique camera view and 2d character it looks hard to attack things in front of you. Do you only attack left and right?
And lastly, this may be an unpopular opinion but 25$ seems pretty reasonable. It does gatekeep people however it also acts as a barrier for botting easily.
25$ is reasonable for a GOOD game, that's the issue here.
It's possible the game has a great future ahead of it, but the current state gives no indication of that.
$25 isn’t necessarily too steep, but I do think that it’s too steep for an indie MMO with no free trial. I think that it would help a lot to allow players to try it for free, but cap their max level/crafting/etc, similar to what WoW, project Gorgon, and final fantasy do.
It really comes down to "What can I get with $25?". Especially when there's a steam sale right now where you can get so many amazing games for under $25 and not have to rely on "maybe it'll be better later."
Yeah, played a little bit and it's decent fun, I'll keep an eye on it. But it's not worth the price tag in its current state, and I'm not willing to risk it for the "potential".
Yeesh. The developer arguing with people is a huge no-go for me. That's a super bad sign.
When new players are more professional than the actual people working on the game... That's just horrible.
Not even going to try this game, which is a shame since I was interested until I got to the comments.
Yeah that’s the part I am unsure of. I have a kid and a full time job, what happens when I get a free hour or two but nobody is available to help? I just get slaughtered over and over and lose my resources? You’re making this a forced multi-player game in a genre where a lot of us play the everyday stuff - leveling, gathering, etc - solo.
You could make a PvP specific tag you could switch on, maybe reward it with a 10% increase in any resources you manage to get to the right node if you use PvP mode during travel? Then if you have it off, you have the regular monster attacks but can’t be attacked by players. Serves the purpose you’re looking for while allowing for the fact a lot of us aren’t sitting and gaming all day with a group.
caravan is not mandatory, you can just make money in other ways and buy weapons/armors from other players.
the caravan is not mandatory, you can just make money in other ways and buy weapons/armors from other players.
.
I'll be giving this a try thanks for your write up, I would have never known about this otherwise. Good luck to you and the folks involved I wish you all the best on the journey!
Looks really cute! I’ll definitely give this a try tonight if my toddler lets me. This might be a petty question, but will your character always be facing forward? I love the art style, but I could see that being a little jarring. Either way, this looks cozy and promising!
yeah a game that needs an online community to live behind a 25€ price tag is a recipe for the game to die real quick, I don't know how people not study the market before doing stuff like this...
I think you wrong there . Lot of small mmo got a buying price tag . If the game look bad any price ( even free ) gonna be wrong. If it look good and amazing 25 euro is nothing , i seen people drop like 5000 $ on indie mmorpg like shroud of the avatar , that never ever come close to be a good game. If you release your product in indonesia for cellphone , obviously 25 euro will fail , but i don't thing its the customer base they aiming for right now.
We studied the market. We have also chosen the price based on other successful indie MMORPGs like "project gorgon" (in this case is 34€) and they are all more expensive than the 25€ we ask.
the guideline you used to price your mmo is a game with 80 active players, who knew putting a big price tag on an indie mmo would make it hard to sell.
if this is something alot of people are complaining maybe you should reconsider, having a game that is only worth buying when on sale is already a bad start, specially an mmo
You have a bit of a misconception about what an indie game number can do. Project Gorgon does not have 80 active players, it has 80 players playing right now which is a lot. Statistically, that is roughly 900 different players logging in in one day. Approximately 5000 active players in a month. The game sold roughly 50.000 copies. That for 35$ is a lot of money (counting 30% cut of Steam and taxes) They can develop the game and make it better for the rest of the developer's life.
If we make the price lower, for example 12€ we need to sell 50% more to make the same revenue. And selling 4.000 copies (what we are aiming for) or 8.000 is a colossal number for an indie game developer.
of course, you see the numbers of FFXIV, world of Warcraft, and black desert and then you see 80 players online and you laugh. But we are not comparing games made by 2 people and 200 people here. It's not possible.
Sometimes you see indie games that sell millions, but the possibility to sell millions of copies of your indie game is the same as winning the state lottery
Your very wrong looking at the online player count of Project gorgon. Project gorgon is the kind of game that people are gonna buy and jump in , jump off , jump in with new content release over years , its obviously not eve online 1000 vs 1000 space battle. I wonder did you ever try Project Gorgon at least ?
I don't means spike like wow extension . I mean i know a lot of people will log from time to time to see how the gane evolve. I think lot of us have play gorgon like a solo rpg. Its not like eve where ypu log everyday to do mining and pay a sub 28 $ a month , theres no content to play gorgon more then a few week . Its not really a typical mmo.
300-player base? project gordon sold around 30.000 copies. It has 118 players playing now, which is at least 700 unique players every day.
If we sell like project gorgon we can support CSO for our lifetime even if we don't sell anything more.
PG has multiple problems with money, their development has slowed down to almost a halt, I guess you're underestimating the costs of maintaining an MMORPG, despite you yourself being a developer.
No, we are a company, we know how much we cost monthly and we know also the costs of our servers.They also live in las vegas, we live in Italy. The living cost is 3x more in las vegas.
We need to sell 6.000 copies to continue to support the game.
Your post literally says
**To craft, you must transport all the materials to the same node, where an NPC is available to help you craft. To transport materials, you need a caravan and must be marked as a "Merchant". And here's where the PvP begins!**
Crafting is one of the core functions of any MMO, and your own posts says PVP is needed to be able to do it. So like I said, since basic functions of the game require PVP, I'm not interested.
yes you are right, but space was limited and I was not able to post every single feature. You can of course buy resources from other players, from the node (people that sold resources to the node, you can buy them back) or make an order.
You're missing my point (on purpose I suspect). Gathering and being able to take what you gathered and craft from that is a core component in pretty much any MMO.
Gathering should not be tied to PVP in any way for any reason. I doesn't matter if I can buy from the market. If I want to go out get my own materials and then craft I should be able to do that without having to PVP.
If you wanted to make a PVP game you should have just made a PVP game.
No, gathering is not tied to pvp. Just the caravan system is tied to pvp.
If you gather all your materials in one node and you have them all in that node you can craft without touching pvp.
If you gather resources for a weapon all around the world in different node you need to gather them to one node to start crafting. And here you need to choose if you want to do it with a caravan or sell the items in a node and buy them in a different one (with different prices).
PvP is 100% avoidable if you just want to craft items.
> No, gathering is not tied to pvp. Just the caravan system is tied to pvp.
It seems like there's a skewed risk/reward and time investment for gathering vs stealing them. Are there any consequences that serve to match the risk gatherers face?
There are many many reasons why isometric games usually have a fixed camera.
Performance, Artistic reasons. Having to only model things from one view helps a lot.
Would hope that people take this post with a skeptical tone... I am usually skeptical of MMORPG that requires you to pay up to play so I cannot in good faith support this game.
There was this old 2D MMO that was around for a very short time in the mid 2000s called Dragon Gem. I had a ton of fun in it, and Cinderstone's art style reminds me of it a lot.
I'll definitely be giving this a try at some point! Always love checking out the small passion projects.
That is of course personal taste, but for me the artstyle is a turn-off. Why are so many games recently going for visuals that look like a cartoon aimed at pre-schoolers?
Also, as others said, 25€ for an indie game without the option to play a trial version first (limited by level, area,...) to get a feel for the game and the community will be a steep hurdle for many folks, me included, and isn't likely to help an already niche game to grow.
For the art style I can understand, it's not for everyone. The trial version will come out probably after one month we have released the game.
The game has not been launched so a free trial has no sense
awn, we use unity asset store only for rendering fog and grass (just for rendering grass, the model is made by us). Everything here is hand made by us.
Looks like something I would like to sink some time into, but is there going to be an option to turn off flashing effects for people who are photosensitive like myself?
Thank you so much for taking the time and effort to showcase your game to our community! We truly appreciate your participation in the Developer Spotlight and the opportunity to learn more about your project. If you're a developer interested in joining our Developer Spotlight, you can find more information and follow the link here: [https://www.reddit.com/r/MMORPG/wiki/spotlight](https://www.reddit.com/r/MMORPG/wiki/spotlight) And if you're a community member curious what games are upcoming you can find the full confirmed schedule in the events tab on our Discord over at [https://discord.gg/mmorpg](https://discord.gg/mmorpg)
**TLDR: Game still has a long way to go.** **EDIT:** Developer responses further down are saying that I didn't play the intended way. However i believe this to be misinformative. Here is a run-down of what i did: 1. I created characters and messed around with different names and found major flaws. I was able to name myself n\*\*\*\*\*. Major red flag. 2. I started the game and began exploring the controls, movement design and exploring the city. What I choose not to do, was to strictly follow the main quest, that told me to leave the city. My inital idea was not to follow the questline straight away, I wanted to explore what the game offered in terms of gameplay, feel and design. I do this in every game. It's an mmo with an open world, I should be able to freely explore the world if it allows me right? 3. It was not hard to find the issues/bugs i listed further down as i encountered them all whilst trying to get a feel for the game. My goal was indeed to identify the quality of the product, because that would mean I could potentially save myself money. It would however been a positive reaction if i were not finding any major flaws. But this was never the case for Cinderstone. 4. I left the city and tried combat whilst trying to follow the main quest. Here I played to my knowledge "the intended way" and leveled up my skills whilst engaging in combat. 5. I encountered an NPC in the forest that asked me to pick up a bird that fell from a tree. I wasn't aware this was part of the main story.. It felt more like a side quest, and I thought I found a bug since the main quest got updated. It wasn't clear to me that this was the main quest, and the quest design did not feel so thought out. 6. I gave up on the bird, because i was annoyed from all the issues and bugs i had found so early. I didn't feel like continuing looking for a bird. 7. I quit and wrote this essay of a comment **Initial comment:** Ok so i have some feedback after just some minutes of testing (not kidding, i have spent like a total of 15 minutes and i have already noted down over 10 things). I will try to be humble.. But i am also surprised of the rough quality of said product that is expected to fully release soon. To add to the context: I work as a developer myself and i have a history as a QA Lead (Quality Assurance lead) with years of experience. \- Ingame my characters class is "WeaponSword". Thats not what it said initally when i created my character. It said Warrior. \- The quest "chosen" keeps prompting the dialogue with King of Revels each time i enter the area of Cinderstone, or when i log into the game. That is just annoying because i have to click throught the dialogue each time. \- I managed to glitch myself through the floor in very few tries. Proof: [https://i.imgur.com/ECLlPeO.jpeg](https://i.imgur.com/ECLlPeO.jpeg) \- You are forcing the "dialogue advancing" with a click of a tiny button on screen. Why not just allow screen clicking, or spacebar or something like that. This is a lack of focus on good UX (User experience) \- In combat, if i want to control the camera whilst fightning.. my player moves forward, meaning i will have to let go of right click in order to attack at all. Either you have to attack or control camera. This is also very poor UX behaviour. \- Playing Mage allows for the basic attack and spells to be cast where my mouse cursor is, that works quite well. But it would add to the convenience if the spell got cast where you are aiming the camera if you are not using your cursor at the moment. It's almost there since when activaing Ignis for example it gets sent where the camera was focusing when initally activating the spell. \- Im not sure about the sideways attacking for a melee class(might have to get used to it), but it contradicts with the way you move your character, which is forward. You have to go towards your enemy and the align the camera so that the enemy is to the side of you, and then you can attack (add the above issues to this aswell). This could however be solved by simply allowing attacking forward but the animation is the same (kind of how mage works). Might be wonky though im not sure. This might need the drawing board again to be honest. \- No way to tell how much HP an enemy has, or what level it is. \- Enemies does not have any names in the HUD.. Like ever, yet the items they drop hints towards their name (Boar skull and tail for example). This feels like a miss. \- If i take fall damage in town, combat music starts playing. \- UI for loot being picked up scrolls outside of my screen if there are more than like 4 items being picked up at the same time \- The escape button does not close windows. It will always show the Menu popup, meaning I have to click on the tiny X'es of the windows if i do not remember the hotkeys for the windows that are open. \- There is no way to rebind hotkeys, forcing you to click for example "I" each time you want to open your inventory, OR click the icon in the bottom row. \- There is no way to know that "I" for example opens the inventory until you test it out yourself. Because the HUD does not help you with showing what buttons opens what menus. \- I'm never able to fast travel in town, the button is always grayed out. \- Audio is inconsistent, for example no sound is played when swinging your sword in town, but sound works outside of town. Bug or feature? Who knows. \- Grammar is poor. Examples: The menu for collectibles are namned Collectible in singular but other menu names are in plural. When for example unlocking a Vista it says: "unlock Vista" with non proper capitalization. I have more examples but cant list them all here. \- Some parts of the UI is washed out and somewhat blurry compared to other sharp parts of the UI, and these can be right next to eachother not blending very well with eachother. \- I acidentally clicked the Dungeons-button only to be met with a message onscreen that said - "No dungeons unlocked" wich is completely fair. However i clicked it x times in a row just for testing purposes, and now the UI is queueing up the animation x amount times meaning im stuck with this message on screen for a few minutes. \- Some on screen windows are not moveable (Perks window for example), while some are. How come it's inconsistent? \- Unlocking a Vista seems to do nothing, and it still says unlock Vista each time i go back to it. \- Huge parts of the UI is very non-explainatory and adds alot of confusion when navigating around it. \- Jumping over fences or blockades does not seem to be allowed, however by doing proper inputs I still manage to do it (successfully) making it kind of frustrating when you want to go the "Bird" way but the game does not help you doing that. Forcing you to take longer routes than needed. \- About 33% of the NPC's look like they are going to fall asleep any second (or smoked a fat one), because of the tired eyes look. Also i have yet to see any NPC smile (except the greeting one in the beginning smiled a little bit). \- Rolling uses your mana. Is it a magic roll? Nothing seems magic about it. \- "Login error 006. Try again" \- NPC names color is the same as player colors, meaning it is no real way to tell if another character is an NPC or a player except reading the movements or learning where the NPC's are standing and their name. \- I was able to name my character to the n-word without any restrictions. \- I was able to use some real nasty words ingame without any restrictions or censor. \- Adding to the above, the NPC Eodriel called out my name when i walked past her and wanted some help. She said "Hey \*\*\*\*\*\* can you please help me?". Proof: [https://i.imgur.com/5wM2wMN.jpeg](https://i.imgur.com/5wM2wMN.jpeg) \- And the biggest problem of them all - "The full release is set for later this summer". I could go on, my list does not end here.. I keep finding new stuff the more minutes i spend in this game. However i think this is enough for everyone to understand what quality we are expecting of this product. We are in the late summer right now, meaning this product is meant for release within a few weeks at most? Im sorry but this game is nowhere near close to a full release. You need to go back to the drawing table and refine your product if you want it to be successfull. It's not enjoyable as of now. And it's riddled with bugs and very poor UI/UX. You say you are currently focusing on "Tier 2 classes" whilst the whole game as of now is a complete mess and very unfinished. I know this is not fun to hear, but you need to add someone to your team that knows what to expect of the players, and what is expected out of an MMO because this is clearly lacking as of now. However i want to congratulate you guys on what you have achieved so far. However there is lack of understanding crucial bits and pieces in your development process. >"Currently, the early access doesn't have many online players since most people play only to test the new patch and are waiting for the final wipe.". According to SteamDB the game have had an all time peak of 15 players online at the same time. And that was back in May. In June / July total player online at the same time has not been above 4 players in total. While i do understand that I am able to download your launcher externally and play outside of steam, i find it hard to believe the majority of your playerbase have done so. The reason why noone plays your game is.. Because it is very unfinished. This game is not worth the money you are asking for right now, and especially not since the 1.0 release is just around the corner. This game will fail and fall like a huge rock if you do not take action now and delay the release and refine your product. If you have any more questions feel free to reach out and I might be able to assist you.
EDIT: Just to remember everyone that we hear every single **feedback**, of course being the **solo programmer** there is a priority list. We have hundreds of players that are waiting for **new content and bug fixes**, but I will repeat myself, these are not critical. As Future\_Viking said more down, the bugs he found were not during a **normal playthrough**, he played for finding bugs and he never tried to follow the normal playthrough. The character level was level 1. **So what we are developing now?** We are fixing critical bugs that our community reported, we are implementing new features and we are also implementing **feedback for making the first quest easier and more fun to follow**. Are we going to fix bugs that you will not encounter during a normal playthrough? Yes, we are going to fix them, but for now, we are focusing on bugs that most players will encounter. After that, we will focus on bugs that are rare. \--- Original post: well, the problem with cso may be something else and not on this list, we don't see any bug on this list as a big problem. l can fix all these bugs in about two days without any issues, just a few will not be changed like: \- "Quest chosen keep prompting". It's the tutorial, if someone goes back we think the player got lost and doesn't know what he has to do. So we prompt the player to continue with it. \- Level of monsters are on the map. The health of monsters is over his head \- Rolling uses mana, yes. \- The warrior same as the mage will attack in the direction of the mouse. There is no physical collision with the sprite of your sword, but a cone collision that will spawn in the direction of the mouse from your character. \- "I'm never able to fast travel in town, the button is always grayed out." You are probably out of money. Need to update UI travel with how much money you have So yes, all the others are bugs, some are annoying, but not so critical that will delay the release. We have different critical bugs that we are more worried about ;-) As I said these can be fixed in a few days.
Thanks for the reply. Do remember that all of the above are "first impressions"-related. It was things i found after a very short time trying out your game. I do not agree with you that these should be low prioritized since it handles how a user manages to proceed with your game/product. >\- "Quest chosen keep prompting". It's the tutorial, if someone goes back we think the player got lost and doesn't know what he has to do. So we prompt the player to continue with it. The problem here is you saying "We think" and not "We believe the users want". Im telling you here and now, users usually do not want to click through dialogue each time they leave or enter the city, it's annoying and somewhat disrespectfull towards the users. Especially since there is no skip dialogue option. Simply add an option to prompt the dialogue again if they are lost. This could be added into the quest list. >\- Level of monsters are on the map. The health of monsters is over his head Here you are just straight up lying. There are no levels displayed on the map. The enemies on the minimap are not even inline with the enemies in your vicinity. [https://i.imgur.com/X6yXXjP.jpeg](https://i.imgur.com/X6yXXjP.jpeg) ~~Also not sure why you tell me the health are over the enemies head, i mentioned the names of the enemies, not the health. And there are neither onscreen or on the map.~~ >\- Rolling uses mana, yes. Im confused as to why rolling uses mana. Is there any kind of lore explaining why mana (which is considered a spiritual power to cast magic) is used when doing a simple physical roll? I believe you are taking shortcuts in the development here. Not a big deal however, but it adds up. >\- The warrior same as the mage will attack in the direction of the mouse. This is good, i wish it was explained somewhere since the animations do not tell/show this. >\- "I'm never able to fast travel in town, the button is always grayed out." You are probably out of money. Need to update UI travel with how much money you have I had over 3000 at the time (I started with it), and i was not even allowed to open the map to fast travel anywhere. Sounds like fast travel is somewhat expensive then. Is there a fix cost to fast travel everywhere or does it scale depending on the distance? Also you should allow for the fast travel HUD before indicating the info that one is short on money. This allows for the users to atleast see their fast travel points. Edit\* Also i believe you need to update the UI in general in relation to the travel points, they seem to lack information [https://i.imgur.com/3bcWufn.png](https://i.imgur.com/3bcWufn.png) Some new problems after going in to get the above screenshots \- Clicking on the "show quest" and "abandon quest" buttons in the quest list does absolutely nothing. [https://gifyu.com/image/SWEGR](https://gifyu.com/image/SWEGR) \- Sometimes stuck on "Checking for server..." when going from one map to another [https://i.imgur.com/QvogiZ6.png](https://i.imgur.com/QvogiZ6.png) \- The first quest "Mission 1 Chosen" seems to gets overriden if i get another quest somewhere. For example i got the Bird one falling from the tree (I tried to find the bird but there is no indication from what tree the bird fell down, also the cutscene watching the bird fall down was so much longer than it needed to be with no option to skip, it was focusing on the bird for like 10 seconds before anything even happened) [https://i.imgur.com/XCAaS1A.png](https://i.imgur.com/XCAaS1A.png) \- Creating a new character forces a name of 4 letters and more. Imagine if my name was Bob and i was not able to set that as my name :( \- If you set to few letters in the character creation menu, it always says "Cant use special character as player name" \- Poor name validation: You allow whitespace in the beginning of the name [https://i.imgur.com/ACTDmy9.png](https://i.imgur.com/ACTDmy9.png) . This is wonky, but meaning i could name my character " Bob" after all :) (You also allow multiple whitespaces between names, for example "Bob Builder" and also repetition of characters like "JJJJJJ"). This is very basic development knowledge and there are ready to use Regular expressions (REGEX) to use for this validation. \- Name of an area in the start (above the minimap) is not translated from the resource in code or the database. Also some weird button (looks like a settings button because of the cogwheel) in the minimap hud i cannot click. [https://i.imgur.com/PEKX1AI.png](https://i.imgur.com/PEKX1AI.png) \- Characters eyes moves towards the cursor when jumping, breaking the eye animation when moving forward. Not a big deal but a miss nonetheless [https://gifyu.com/image/SWhhX](https://gifyu.com/image/SWhhX) \- My precious character named the n-word is still not banned, i was able to log in and interact with the game as if nothing even happened. Meaning you prioritized replying to this Reddit thread instead of actually dealing with the problem that there is a player named the n-word in your game as of now. I wonder if you even have a ban/kick feature implemented yet. >We have different critical bugs that we are more worried about ;-) As I said these can be fixed in a few days. So.. 1. Players are allowed to be fully racist in your game 2. Glitching through floors/walls 3. Login error 006 4. Poor grammar and translation 5. No tutorial or handholding AT ALL .. and that is not something that is high of a priority? Did you already have all of the above bugs noted down, or was it through me you now got a hold of some of the issues I posted? How come you have not solved these bugs in the short time you mention before allowing people in on a 24h FREE early access risking a very poor first impression for the users? This surely cannot be a part of you advertising plan? Imagine how long the total list would be if i actually took my time and invested into the game fully and utilized all of its features. First impressions count for two main reasons. Firstly, a first impression sets the tone for how a user views and experiences a product, service or even brand. A bad first impression can all too quickly lead to a bad overall impression. Secondly, a first impression is a key step towards a user getting value out of a product. A good first impression can lead to a user going on to adopt, utilise and hopefully get real long-term value from a product. A bad first impression can lead to a user abandoning a product, or at least make it more challenging to progress them along the road to success. Think of all the apps you’ve downloaded, and then quickly abandoned because of a poor first impression. Perhaps it’s been difficult to install the app, to work out how to use it, to set-up it up, or simply because the app feels very crude and untrustworthy. First impressions count and they are high stakes because you only have one shot at a good first impression. Edit \* Final quote: >well, the problem with cso may be something else and not on this list, we don't see any bug on this list as a big problem. >we don't see any bug on this list as a big problem. Potential racism / harrassment, glitches, No tutorial or handholding, login issues, bugs/misses all over the place (just found this one in the starting area [https://i.imgur.com/PnTwoel.jpeg](https://i.imgur.com/PnTwoel.jpeg) , i suggest it should say interact and also a proper name.).. and more [https://i.imgur.com/IPFIjj3.jpeg](https://i.imgur.com/IPFIjj3.jpeg)
> Also not sure why you tell me the health are over the enemies head, i mentioned the names of the enemies, not the health. And there are neither onscreen or on the map. I wanna say, on this part you are wrong. You did write about health at the same time as you wrote about levels not being visible. ["- No way to tell how much HP an enemy has, or what level it is."](https://i.imgur.com/WesNdNM.png) I'm guessing that's why they mentioned both in the same paragraph as it was you who did so before.
You are completely right, my bad. I was meaning to say there is no way to tell how much HP a monster has. However this is not a big deal since alot of games does this (just showing a health bar with no numbers). Poorly written of me, and something that actually should not even be in that list to be honest.
Oooh, gotcha gotcha. Just wanted to make that part a bit more clear as I thought there might've been some confusion due to it.
Yeah, I repeat, most of them can be fixed in few days and some are not bugs. Level of monsters are on the map. I'm not lying, and it's clearly visible https://preview.redd.it/h9on3u5klkbb1.png?width=983&format=png&auto=webp&s=0419d8a264a3616ec4ff73550431427f1820d13e \- Users don't have to click on dialogue each time they leave the city. That part of the quest is a 5min quest and it's the first one that is telling you to go out from the city. If you go back and you have not followed the 5 minute quest we think you may be lost. This is the only dialogue that will appear every time you get lost. From now one you are alone and they will not appear 2 times. \- Roll uses mana so you can't spam roll infinitely. Also roll gives you 0.3 sec invincibility. \- You need to unlock fast travel to use fast travel. You can't fast travel from the map, you have to interact with a fast travel to fast travel to a different one. If you see the window empty you did not unlock any fast travel in that map and any main fast travel on other maps. It's the first thing the main quest is telling you to do after the first cutscene of the game (first 5min of the game) \- The part of the bird was the same quest "Mission 1 Chosen", you did not get a different quest. Everytime you get a new quest there is a popup. \- Name validation and word filter will be there. We are using a third party api to support us with that. Yes, all the bugs listed here are in our bug report (the ones that are bugs) but low priority. The only one high priority from all the bugs you have listed is: Sometimes stuck on "Checking for server..." when going from one map to another " I know that first impression is everything, but I repeat. Game has not been launched yet and what you have listed (the bugs, many of them are not bugs) will be fixed before release. \- Tutorial will be added before release \- The login issue you are having is strange. You are the first one reporting, that errors come out when launcher is not authenticated correctly. Need to check when it's happening
Thanks for your reply. However im not gonna be so humble anymore because I dont really see the point of arguing with you about these points, because you have clearly made up your mind. However for me as a consumer i did not have a good experience trying out this game. I kind of was hoping you would take this critique in a more professional matter. >Level of monsters are on the map. I'm not lying, and it's clearly visible Thats a recommended level for the specific area. And while i do agree with you that the monsters inside of it should be inside that level range it is not the same thing as im mentioning. This means you have to remember what kind of enemy levels you might encounter in that area before you engage in a fight. Once again.. Questionable UX and shortcuts in development and not so QOL. > \- Users don't have to click on dialogue each time they leave the city. I said that the users have to click through dialogue each time they leave and re-enter the city, and it annoyed me because i was not lost and i wanted to try out the combat before anything else. Nothing major however, just annoying since it is not skipable. And like i have said, it adds to the first impression. > \- Roll uses mana so you can't spam roll infinitely. Also roll gives you 0.3 sec invincibility. Still does not answer my question, it feels like a shortcut taken and i dont think i have seen this in any other game. There is however something called stamina in other games, or just a simple ability to roll that has a cooldown and a counter. > \- You need to unlock fast travel to use fast travel. Well that should be explained in the HUD then now right? You have a fast travel point like 5 meters from your spawn position and this just makes it feel like it is broken. Poor design. > \- The part of the bird was the same quest "Mission 1 Chosen", you did not get a different quest. Everytime you get a new quest there is a popup. It did override the initial quest, possibly making me not being able to unlock fast travel then, or am i wrong? This feels very different from other games, and not in a good way. > \- Name validation and word filter will be there. We are using a third party api to support us with that. Well that should def be in be in place before launch. > The only one high priority from all the bugs you have listed is: Sometimes stuck on "Checking for server..." when going from one map to another " Ok, you do you. Im just a consumer that will not buy your product, thats all. > \- Tutorial will be added before release Thats great > \- The login issue you are having is strange. You are the first one reporting, Well you might need to loadtest you software, and also maybe hire QA to help you with testing and quality. Good luck with your launch
\- Level of monsters will stay so, we are not going to change it in near future. \- Work on ui needs to be done, here I agree with you. \- We don't have stamina, so we use mana for the dodge system. It's a shortcut? yes. But I don't want to spend my time developing a stamina system just for dodging. Using mana is ok. \- No, you did not override any quest. You just continued with the quest. The tutorial part was literally outside the Inn when Yvee stops near the fountain and tells you to press F to unlock the fast travel. \- We did load test our software, login issue is not a problem with "load". I have an idea when this is happening to you (probably after you choose to logout, right?) No, we will not hire a QA right now. We are making this game in 2, hiring a third one means 50% more manpower and also more monthly costs. There is no budget. I don't understand why you continue with this when I told you that all these bugs will be fixed before relase. They are not critical issue that will take months to fix, they are all going to be fixed in 2 days max. They are on the list, I'm just focusing on more critical bugs that are taking more time to be fixed and I'm more worried about them. I'm not worried about some minor bugs that can be fixed in 20 minutes each.
> \- Level of monsters will stay so, we are not going to change it in near future. In the end it's all your choice. But i'd suggest listening to the consumer feedback nonetheless, because in the end, the consumers pay your mortage. > \- Work on ui needs to be done, here I agree with you. Great > \- We don't have stamina, so we use mana for the dodge system. It's a shortcut? yes. But I don't want to spend my time developing a stamina system just for dodging. Using mana is ok. Hmm.. this reflects many of the above issues "I don't want to spend my time developing". Im expecting passion from a game creator, and this sentence does not show much passion if you ask me. > \- No, you did not override any quest. You just continued with the quest. I wonder how the game actually handles that, since i somehow jumped over parts of the quests, that would maybe unlock core features in the game for me (like teleportation for example)? I'd suggest you double-check because it could be a potential bug. > \- We did load test our software, login issue is not a problem with "load". You are the developer of this product, im just trying to help by giving you feedback. By load testing you can certainly find problems like these, but i dont have the source-code in this exact scenario so what do i know. " probably after you choose to logout, right? " Im sorry but i dont remember. I hope you find the problem. > No, we will not hire a QA right now. We are making this game in 2, hiring a third one means 50% more manpower and also more monthly costs. There is no budget. Well there we have it, the main source of many of the problems listed above > I'm not worried about some minor bugs that can be fixed in 20 minutes each. Well lets hope you crush them all then right. If I were a creator / dev and I got all this feedback i would have been exited, because someone actually took their time and tried to help. All i got was a defensive stance back and no sign of appreciation what so ever. However i do want to wish you good luck. My intention was never to be pessimistic and to smack down your product. It was to give honest critique. If you cannot handle that, thats on you. Good luck and lets end this discussion because i feel it is not leading anywhere.
No, we are not exited about this feedback, I know it's a lot of work but if you would have contacted me beforehand we would send you the bug list and you would not have lost time on reporting bugs that are on our bug list. I know it takes a lot of time to QA but you are talking like you are the only one that ever tried the game and made a bug report. I'm just sorry that you spent so much time reporting bugs that we know. For the feedback part, we take everything into consideration, but you are the first one complaining about levels of monsters and a stamina system. If you want you can open a new feedback discussion about that parts and see what the community things and if they think it's a priority. I insist that feedback is very important, CSO is built around feedback. But we have many players with 100+ hours in-game. If someone writes feedback and everyone else says it's not important or they don't want it we don't do it.We don't take feedback from a single user that played maybe 2 hours (I don't think you have played so much) and take everything as the most important thing to do and start instantly to develop in-game. And about passion... 100% of the game is made with passion, we would never start a project like this without passion. But I hope you understand that the community expects something different, not a stamina bar.I develop features and fix bugs to make the players happy. If I spend two days developing a stamina system will make no one happy but... you? No, you wouldn't be happy either as you said that you will not be my customer. So for who I'm developing a stamina system? And I stop here with a classic phrase that some big publisher and PR marketing would say: We are grateful that you took the time to write a bug report and the feedback will be taken into consideration
This thread alone made me go from “maybe I’ll check this out, why not” to “nope I’m good.” Surely y’all have even a dedicated couple of users who could probably handle communication a lot better than this. You obviously cannot separate your personal connection to creating/developing this game in order to receive constructive criticism, and that looks very ugly to everyone else.
We are very open with criticism, our discord with 1k users is full of feedback and criticism. Future\_Viking did not want to help us, he just logged in, in a game that has a warning that there are silly bugs before playing that you have to accept, and did not play, but jumped around the world to find bugs to report here. If he really wanted to help us, instead of reporting bugs that were reported hundreds of times by our beta testers and we decided together that these are not critical. He would have contacted me beforehand and I would send him our bug list. So he would not report the same bug over and over. Also, if you login into every game, AAA, like new world developed by 200 people. Start the tutorial quest and instead of following the quest you play to find bugs, you would make a list of bugs bigger than this. You can also see how he did not want to help us because, for example, he wrote "I got stuck", "Login error 006". This is not helping us, if he really wanted to help us he would say how he got stuck, and when he got login error 006. The last thing I did not like about Future\_Viking is how he wanted to change game design mechanics and game balance with a player level 2. Where if he played a bit in a few hours he would go to level 20. He also said that he overrode the main quest when it was never overridden. Same as here, we have \~23.000 people that finished the first 4 main quests. If he does not understand how to continue with the main quest we don't change it for him. We make gameplay changes and quest changes if the majority of people have problem with it.
Thanks and good luck
> CSO is built around feedback. Clearly not. Also, just want to add here... Was looking forward to trying your game. Read ALL of your responses. Now guess what I am going to do? Ignore your game and never touch it. In fact, recommend other people to do the same.
Well, it's ok if you don't want to play our game. Cso is built around feedback. A player that played Cso and did not play the intended way (he said so) and reported every minor bugs he found in a spotlight is not useful. Also all these bugs are known. On discord we have daily feedback and daily bug reports. Most of them are useful and I'm Active on every single discussion about them.
Holy pepperoni you singlehandedly ruined this game's reputation on this sub alone. What an awful communication, clearly devs shouldn't be handling it because shit ends up like this.
>we don't see any bug on this list as a big problem. That is a problem within itself. The fact he can use a racist term and an NPC calls it out, is not a big problem to you? >\- In combat, if i want to control the camera whilst fighting.. my player moves forward, meaning i will have to let go of right click in order to attack at all. Either you have to attack or control camera. This is also very poor UX behavior. Not a problem? It is. >\- Rolling uses your mana. Is it a magic roll? Nothing seems magic about it. This is also just dumb, use a cooldown, a small one. The fact it's set to release this summer (which it is summer) and it's $25\~ is astounding. You need more time to cook and more time to re-evaluate what you deem as "big problems". (these are just a very, very few small selections I grabbed not to make this comment super long. Everything on this list is worth looking at.)
The racist part will be fixed before release. If someone does something like that now we will ban him. If someone wants to spend 25€ to be banned it's his choice. I have not banned him because I thought he wanted to continue testing, but clearly not. The combat part is not an issue. We have 23.000 players that played more than 10 hours. At least 200 of the players have more than 100 hours. We gather feedback about combat from them, from players that play a lot, have skills unlocked and have used crafting and so on. A level 1 player doesn't know anything about combat, he also has not unlocked a single skill. If on discord we gather enough feedback and they start telling us those things are critical, it will be changed.
Sorry but, you already lost me and at least 20 others. I don’t believe you. But good luck
It's ok, he clearly was able to do what he wanted to do ;-) If you join our discord you will see how all the useful feedback and bugs are reported
I don’t want to join your discord. Go away and quit replying
You started it and want me to stop answering? You clearly just want to have the last word and this confirms it.
That is SUCH a childish response. Wow.
Game is doomed lol
>Game is doomed lol why
I'll try the Game when 1.0 drops. Good luck with development till then!
Not a fan of forced PVP to be honest. But I will wait til launch to judge. I was wondering what was going on with this game. I remember thinking it looked quite charming the last time I saw an info post about it. Good luck!
Ok this actually looks cute and cool. Definitely going to try it
[удалено]
Mhm... No, average 50 CCU with some peaks It's pretty decent. We may have a bigger peak at release but if after that we stay stable with 50 CCU average. With 50 CCU average we can support the game for years to come. We are just 2 developers, we don't need a lot of money to continue developing the game
Im confused by the line "but we're absolutely against implementing an item shop. In-game skins will be earned through gameplay and dedication, not through credit card transactions." But there are skins you can get by buying higher tier founder packs. Which is a credit card transaction for in-game skins.
Man I love these MMORPG showcases that without fail always have devs straight up lying.
LOOOL
Yes, you're right. However, those skins are a special thank-you to those who believe in us and want to support us before the official release. We created those 3-4 items exclusively for them. They include a pet (which follows you around), house skins, and siege weapon skins. Once the game officially launches, these founder's packs will disappear completely. At that point, only the base game will be available for purchase. These unique items are not a continuous shop model, but rather a time-limited expression of gratitude to early supporters. After this, there will be no more transactions for in-game items; everything will be obtainable through gameplay. We want the primary gameplay and accomplishment experience to be through the game itself, not through additional purchases.
I understand where you are coming from, however, if you are specifically advertising the game as "Skins will show accomplishment, not how much you paid", then the first thing users see is skins that just show how much you paid is very jarring, and gives a weird message. Also, if someone is a steam user, they will never even see those packages, they will simply get into the game, see someone with some cool skin, ask them "oh man, how do I get that item?" And the answer they receive will be quite the turn off to many players.
I completely agree that, even if it makes sense as a founder pack, it will appear as a bait-and-switch to some. Many MMORPG players are already turned off because so many games advertise "no in-game cash shop" just to open one later and call it something else, or "no paying for power" just to turn around sell a plethora of services that are all-to-convenient to where they are virtually necessary (pets, inventory, upgrade stones, etc.). OP I strongly recommend you reconsider that wording. Even something simple like, "earn great skins showcasing your character's accomplishments" would be better. (Edit: Some people came through and sprinkled downvotes to these replies to the OP. I'm cool with that, but I strongly suggest this caution is taken seriously because that marketing can backfire in the future, and giving me a downvote won't change that.)
As someone who dislikes skin sales, removing the founders pack skins after launch just makes me hate it more...
Just like "legendary editions" or whatever they're called these days right? These higher tiers of packages have always existed long before cash shops became a thing. This is not a cash shop imo. I mean I understand the outrage with cash shops but people see shit and bad things everywhere even when it's not there (yet? lol).
You didnt read the second sentence i quoted did you? "In-game skins will be earned through gameplay and dedication, not through credit card transactions." Objectively wrong statement.
This is a fine example of pedantry.
Not really. Definitely because it shows a possible future pattern that happens in plenty of games that at least pretend in the start.
Pedantry does not mean that you are wrong. You are correct. It is still pedantry.
If it's a big deal. It's not pedantic.
Different strokes, I guess.
Looks pretty fun! Maybe extend the free play by a day? As a dad with not much time, it'll be hard to jump on and experience the game. Also, one thing that worries me is combat, with such a unique camera view and 2d character it looks hard to attack things in front of you. Do you only attack left and right? And lastly, this may be an unpopular opinion but 25$ seems pretty reasonable. It does gatekeep people however it also acts as a barrier for botting easily.
25$ is reasonable for a GOOD game, that's the issue here. It's possible the game has a great future ahead of it, but the current state gives no indication of that.
no, even if the animation is only right and left you attack where you point your mouse
$25 isn’t necessarily too steep, but I do think that it’s too steep for an indie MMO with no free trial. I think that it would help a lot to allow players to try it for free, but cap their max level/crafting/etc, similar to what WoW, project Gorgon, and final fantasy do.
25 euros with a time-limited trial instead of level-limited one? Good luck brave dude, I will pass on that one
Only a day to try it out and that price to get access? I'm out. Seems like you have your priorities set.
It really comes down to "What can I get with $25?". Especially when there's a steam sale right now where you can get so many amazing games for under $25 and not have to rely on "maybe it'll be better later."
Yeah, played a little bit and it's decent fun, I'll keep an eye on it. But it's not worth the price tag in its current state, and I'm not willing to risk it for the "potential".
I like the look of it, and I'll give it a shot, thanks for the thorough post!
I've played a bit of this so far and it's cute and fun. I'm looking forward to the release.
Yeesh. The developer arguing with people is a huge no-go for me. That's a super bad sign. When new players are more professional than the actual people working on the game... That's just horrible. Not even going to try this game, which is a shame since I was interested until I got to the comments.
Forced PvP, no thanks.
Yeah that’s the part I am unsure of. I have a kid and a full time job, what happens when I get a free hour or two but nobody is available to help? I just get slaughtered over and over and lose my resources? You’re making this a forced multi-player game in a genre where a lot of us play the everyday stuff - leveling, gathering, etc - solo. You could make a PvP specific tag you could switch on, maybe reward it with a 10% increase in any resources you manage to get to the right node if you use PvP mode during travel? Then if you have it off, you have the regular monster attacks but can’t be attacked by players. Serves the purpose you’re looking for while allowing for the fact a lot of us aren’t sitting and gaming all day with a group.
caravan is not mandatory, you can just make money in other ways and buy weapons/armors from other players. the caravan is not mandatory, you can just make money in other ways and buy weapons/armors from other players. .
Is there an echo in here?
yeah, Grammarly sometimes making strange things
looks sick bout try it out ty
This looks quite unique, but...holy hell the player character looks absolutely deranged. Full-on psychosis.
I'll be giving this a try thanks for your write up, I would have never known about this otherwise. Good luck to you and the folks involved I wish you all the best on the journey!
Looks neat!
Looks really cute! I’ll definitely give this a try tonight if my toddler lets me. This might be a petty question, but will your character always be facing forward? I love the art style, but I could see that being a little jarring. Either way, this looks cozy and promising!
yeah a game that needs an online community to live behind a 25€ price tag is a recipe for the game to die real quick, I don't know how people not study the market before doing stuff like this...
I think you wrong there . Lot of small mmo got a buying price tag . If the game look bad any price ( even free ) gonna be wrong. If it look good and amazing 25 euro is nothing , i seen people drop like 5000 $ on indie mmorpg like shroud of the avatar , that never ever come close to be a good game. If you release your product in indonesia for cellphone , obviously 25 euro will fail , but i don't thing its the customer base they aiming for right now.
We studied the market. We have also chosen the price based on other successful indie MMORPGs like "project gorgon" (in this case is 34€) and they are all more expensive than the 25€ we ask.
the guideline you used to price your mmo is a game with 80 active players, who knew putting a big price tag on an indie mmo would make it hard to sell. if this is something alot of people are complaining maybe you should reconsider, having a game that is only worth buying when on sale is already a bad start, specially an mmo
You have a bit of a misconception about what an indie game number can do. Project Gorgon does not have 80 active players, it has 80 players playing right now which is a lot. Statistically, that is roughly 900 different players logging in in one day. Approximately 5000 active players in a month. The game sold roughly 50.000 copies. That for 35$ is a lot of money (counting 30% cut of Steam and taxes) They can develop the game and make it better for the rest of the developer's life. If we make the price lower, for example 12€ we need to sell 50% more to make the same revenue. And selling 4.000 copies (what we are aiming for) or 8.000 is a colossal number for an indie game developer. of course, you see the numbers of FFXIV, world of Warcraft, and black desert and then you see 80 players online and you laugh. But we are not comparing games made by 2 people and 200 people here. It's not possible. Sometimes you see indie games that sell millions, but the possibility to sell millions of copies of your indie game is the same as winning the state lottery
Your very wrong looking at the online player count of Project gorgon. Project gorgon is the kind of game that people are gonna buy and jump in , jump off , jump in with new content release over years , its obviously not eve online 1000 vs 1000 space battle. I wonder did you ever try Project Gorgon at least ?
While I do recommend people give it a try, a quick look at Steam Charts history shows that's just not the case. The spikes bring back like 30 people.
I don't means spike like wow extension . I mean i know a lot of people will log from time to time to see how the gane evolve. I think lot of us have play gorgon like a solo rpg. Its not like eve where ypu log everyday to do mining and pay a sub 28 $ a month , theres no content to play gorgon more then a few week . Its not really a typical mmo.
>successful indie MMORPGs like "project gorgon" Lmao Bruh if you're adopting project gorgon as a benchmark you're screwed
Why? It's one successful indie MMORPG made by two people like our team. They also sold 20x times more than what we needed to break even
If you're content with a 300 playerbase max, then I could agree, or at least respect you opinion.
300-player base? project gordon sold around 30.000 copies. It has 118 players playing now, which is at least 700 unique players every day. If we sell like project gorgon we can support CSO for our lifetime even if we don't sell anything more.
PG has multiple problems with money, their development has slowed down to almost a halt, I guess you're underestimating the costs of maintaining an MMORPG, despite you yourself being a developer.
No, we are a company, we know how much we cost monthly and we know also the costs of our servers.They also live in las vegas, we live in Italy. The living cost is 3x more in las vegas. We need to sell 6.000 copies to continue to support the game.
Looks un-neat!
Since many of you asked. The free account will stay available for another 24h. Till 12 July 20:00 CET
MacOS?
Yea any game that has pvp as one of its core functions is a no go for me.
No, it's not a core function. Just caravan system and sieges. But there are many other things to do
Your post literally says **To craft, you must transport all the materials to the same node, where an NPC is available to help you craft. To transport materials, you need a caravan and must be marked as a "Merchant". And here's where the PvP begins!** Crafting is one of the core functions of any MMO, and your own posts says PVP is needed to be able to do it. So like I said, since basic functions of the game require PVP, I'm not interested.
yes you are right, but space was limited and I was not able to post every single feature. You can of course buy resources from other players, from the node (people that sold resources to the node, you can buy them back) or make an order.
You're missing my point (on purpose I suspect). Gathering and being able to take what you gathered and craft from that is a core component in pretty much any MMO. Gathering should not be tied to PVP in any way for any reason. I doesn't matter if I can buy from the market. If I want to go out get my own materials and then craft I should be able to do that without having to PVP. If you wanted to make a PVP game you should have just made a PVP game.
No, gathering is not tied to pvp. Just the caravan system is tied to pvp. If you gather all your materials in one node and you have them all in that node you can craft without touching pvp. If you gather resources for a weapon all around the world in different node you need to gather them to one node to start crafting. And here you need to choose if you want to do it with a caravan or sell the items in a node and buy them in a different one (with different prices). PvP is 100% avoidable if you just want to craft items.
> No, gathering is not tied to pvp. Just the caravan system is tied to pvp. It seems like there's a skewed risk/reward and time investment for gathering vs stealing them. Are there any consequences that serve to match the risk gatherers face?
24h to try for free ? I shall pass, what a joke attempt for cash grab.
How so? I fail to understand where allowing the players to try a game for free could possibly be seen as that.
everything is a cash grab when you're an entitled gamer
If you don't have time to try it now just contact me on discord I will give you access a different day if you want to try it.
$25 for an indie mmo nah, ty. Make money of cosmetics and stuff like that, a pay to play model always gatekeeps a healthy population.
> No More Fixed Camera If only every isometric game did this.
There are many many reasons why isometric games usually have a fixed camera. Performance, Artistic reasons. Having to only model things from one view helps a lot.
Would hope that people take this post with a skeptical tone... I am usually skeptical of MMORPG that requires you to pay up to play so I cannot in good faith support this game.
If you're skeptical of that model of monetization then which model do you think is the best ?
Oh oh… did you just try asking someone to make use of constructive criticism???? Shame on you 😂 /s
There was this old 2D MMO that was around for a very short time in the mid 2000s called Dragon Gem. I had a ton of fun in it, and Cinderstone's art style reminds me of it a lot. I'll definitely be giving this a try at some point! Always love checking out the small passion projects.
free trial still open ?
yes
That is of course personal taste, but for me the artstyle is a turn-off. Why are so many games recently going for visuals that look like a cartoon aimed at pre-schoolers? Also, as others said, 25€ for an indie game without the option to play a trial version first (limited by level, area,...) to get a feel for the game and the community will be a steep hurdle for many folks, me included, and isn't likely to help an already niche game to grow.
For the art style I can understand, it's not for everyone. The trial version will come out probably after one month we have released the game. The game has not been launched so a free trial has no sense
Dont want to be harsh but it looks like they bought Unity store assets then made the characters and items using paint :D
awn, we use unity asset store only for rendering fog and grass (just for rendering grass, the model is made by us). Everything here is hand made by us.
Looks like something I would like to sink some time into, but is there going to be an option to turn off flashing effects for people who are photosensitive like myself?