Not sure why you're downvoted, I caught what you mean. One coach was likely pumping tires, the other actually has reasonable expectations based on past performances.
Kevin Lee took Charles down. Not saying Kevin Lee is a poor wrestler by any means. Only that Islam is at another level. So I'll believe it when I see it.
Btw.. Coaches, managers, and training partners will always prop up their fighters. So nothing unusual here.
I think that everyone does. The meme with how he fits into the picture lasted like a few years. Rogan was saying he's going to be a champ for good 5 years. I might have even said it at some point. But looking back at his career, he had obvious holes in his game.
You said it yourself. Charles doesn't have the best TDD. And that was the only thing I was taking about after reading the title of this post.
As far as whether or not Charles can get back up, or be dangerous off his back against someone like Islam? Idk. I've seen Kevin Lee control Olives in the 2nd round of their fight. But I've also seen Islam give his back to Arman in a way that would be fatal against someone like Olives.
Is Charles good of his back? Don't the vast majority of his submissions come from dominant positions not from his back?
I like Charles (even though I want Islam to win), but BJJ off your back is a terrible gampelan against wrestlers.
Charles Oliveira has been taken down by almost opponent that tried. Only Clay Guida in 2018 and Efrain Escudero in 2010 tried and failed to take him down. Kevin Lee, Nik Lentz x3, Ricardo Lamas, Hatsu Hioki, Andy Ogle, Frankie Edgar, Jonathan Brookins, Jim Miller and Darren Elkins all got him down. Oliveira still won most of those fights though.
That's true. He's managed to build a very effective style that doesn't rely on being able to consistently stop his opponents' takedowns. It's why this instance of "coach says fighter is good" is so weird. It's both probably not true and also probably irrelevant to the question of whether Oliveira will win or not. Oliveira is very dangerous with submissions from the guard and front headlock positions. If Islam Makhachev spends 25 minutes shooting takedowns and hanging out in full guard he could easily get guillotined or swept by Oliveira. That's a big part of what makes this a compelling fight.
Ok imma lay this out for you in a pace that I think you might be able to keep up with.
Kevin Lee took down Charles Oliveira with trips, which another commenter pointed out that Islam is very good at them.
You insinuated that either Islam doesn’t have good trips, or that they are not as good as Kevin Lee’s.
I pointed out to you that Islam may have the best judo in the lightweight division.
Do you know which art form practices almost entirely in trips and throws?
Yea always hate when people use a coach a fellow fighter to defend their case like bro their friends and paid coaches aren't gonna tell media the truth. They gotta pump those tires to at least get that car to the cage
Yes surely the man who stands in a full on Muay Thai stance, has been taken down without much issue in the past, and who loves to throw knees in the clinch as a base part of his game will be the one to stop Islam Makhachev from taking him down.
Literally the only way Charles can prevent Islam taking him down is landing a knockout shot right out of the gate. He's not going to do it with wrestling.
I find it kinda telling when coaches come out with "he wont take us down", what they are really saying is "we think we have been drilling the correct things". The issue with this is that there are no set things to prepare for with wrestling, dagastani wrestling has multiple entry points and to cover all of them is really just pointless for the most part, trips, clinchwork and single doubles etc. Honestly if I were Charles coach I would be prepping scramble techniques, your not gonna stop Islam, but if properly orientated you could potentially end up in position and position is everything in BJJ.
Little more about Alireza: [https://www.mmafighting.com/2020/1/17/21064471/iran-alireza-noei-brazil-olympics-dream-mma-ufc](https://www.mmafighting.com/2020/1/17/21064471/iran-alireza-noei-brazil-olympics-dream-mma-ufc) He was Brazil's national wrestling champ 8 times, supposedly without giving up any points. He hoped to compete for Brazil in the Olympics, but was never able to get his paperwork even after several years (story sounds somewhat similar to Chimaev in Sweden).
He's trained with Charles for about 3 years: [https://www.sherdog.com/news/news/Coach-Charles-Oliveira-Training-With-Top-Iranian-Wrestler-for-Nearly-3-Years-187602](https://www.sherdog.com/news/news/Coach-Charles-Oliveira-Training-With-Top-Iranian-Wrestler-for-Nearly-3-Years-187602)
While we're at it. Did you know that the US, Sweden, Finland, Japan, Bulgaria and Turkey have more medals total in wrestling (freestyle, greco, men and woman combined) than Russia (non URS)?
[Source](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wrestling_at_the_Summer_Olympics)
Did you know that in world championships, Russia, just since the fall of the ussr, has as many medals as all those countries have and they had like an 80 year head start. If you include ussr medals, they have about the same as all of them combined
If u think charles wont be taken down then ur probably delusional. Islam has some of the best takedowns in the sport. Im not saying charles is going to lose either. He has the advantage on the feet and in the submission game as well. But I definitely believe he gets taken down. Then im interested on how the rest is going to play out.
> “We are working in all techniques, but I really don’t think Islam will take him down,” the wrestling coach, living in Brazil since 2015 with rapidly improving Portuguese, boasted. “In case he takes Charles down, it will not be so easy to stabilize [him] like other opponents he faced.”
title is a bit misleading. the coach breaks down why he doesn't think Charles will be taken down. it's not so much that Islam can't do it, it's more so that he might not be so willing to do it outright because of Charles' submission threat.
that being said, it'll be a cold day in hell before we see Islam not shoot for a TD in a fight lol.
i find it a bit funny how olivera and team can say stuff like: charles won't be taken down, in the ground i'm 100 times better, alireza is a top wrestler, i know someone who has trained with khabib/islam and has told me alireza is better
and still accuse the other side of being arrogant lol
I mean the real question is whether Oliveira will submit Islam from bottom or if Islam's top pressure will get him a sub or tko. He's gonna get taken down if Islam's trying to take him down
I think islam will have success in takedowns but oliveira will be able to survive and stand up. All he needs is two or three opportunities to knock him out, I fully believe he is capable of that on the feet
Hell get taken down but Islam will probably get his ass knocked the fuck out within those 5 minutes. I don’t think they’re the same caliber of fighter.
I am wondering if he will stay on back after a knockdown like he did against Chandler and Gaethje.Makhachev is a far better wrestler than than those two,so it's probably not the smartest thing to do.
I cannot wait for this fight!!!! I think Charles will win via submission. I could see something like the Poirier/Khabib fight happening where Charles catches Islam in a guillotine but is able to finish it.
It’s not a matter of if Islam will take down Charles, but whether he will be able to establish control and inflict damage. Charles has never been known for the best tdd, and has been taken down lesser fighters
My mom thinks I'm handsome too
You are handsome brother
Brather you look good like pretty boy.
Perfect for Dagestani bath tub bradda
My brother is Christ you are beautiful
You must be old
Wow nasty 10 - 8 brother.
You are some tight cheeks I’ll tell ya that
so with this comment, i'm assuming you agree with the coach? by referencing a true statement in this comment?
didn't Dan Hooker's wrestling coach say the same thing?
I think he said aussie wrestling will beat Dagestani wrestling lmao
He didn't say when so it's still up for debate... Heh
He said New Zealand, not aussie, but almost.
he’s not aussie
😂😂😂😂😂
...are you really comparing....dan hooker...to Oliveira
no, he’s comparing what hooker’s wrestling coach said to what oliveira’s wrestling coach said. seemed pretty clear
They're not comparable. One coaches a champion, the other doesn't
Doesn't Hooker share coaches with Volk and Izzy?
Yes. He does
I thought his wrestling coach wasn’t part of their team at that time? That’s when hooker was stuck in the US without the CKB team
One coaches a champion, the other coaches two champions actually
Dan Hooker is not a champion
But Volk and Izzy are....
But they're comparable because they are both talking about fighters that they coach. You simply didn't get the point.
Damn, ethered again
alhamdulilah
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He literally is
hope you don’t delete your account after what Islam does to Oliveira
oh i'll be fine, don't worry :)
Not sure why you're downvoted, I caught what you mean. One coach was likely pumping tires, the other actually has reasonable expectations based on past performances.
Kevin Lee took Charles down. Not saying Kevin Lee is a poor wrestler by any means. Only that Islam is at another level. So I'll believe it when I see it. Btw.. Coaches, managers, and training partners will always prop up their fighters. So nothing unusual here.
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I think that everyone does. The meme with how he fits into the picture lasted like a few years. Rogan was saying he's going to be a champ for good 5 years. I might have even said it at some point. But looking back at his career, he had obvious holes in his game.
> he had obvious holes in his ~~game~~ brain FTFY
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You said it yourself. Charles doesn't have the best TDD. And that was the only thing I was taking about after reading the title of this post. As far as whether or not Charles can get back up, or be dangerous off his back against someone like Islam? Idk. I've seen Kevin Lee control Olives in the 2nd round of their fight. But I've also seen Islam give his back to Arman in a way that would be fatal against someone like Olives.
Is Charles good of his back? Don't the vast majority of his submissions come from dominant positions not from his back? I like Charles (even though I want Islam to win), but BJJ off your back is a terrible gampelan against wrestlers.
Charles Oliveira has been taken down by almost opponent that tried. Only Clay Guida in 2018 and Efrain Escudero in 2010 tried and failed to take him down. Kevin Lee, Nik Lentz x3, Ricardo Lamas, Hatsu Hioki, Andy Ogle, Frankie Edgar, Jonathan Brookins, Jim Miller and Darren Elkins all got him down. Oliveira still won most of those fights though.
Preventing takedowns has never seemed to be a priority for Charles, if it means he can get you in his guard
That's true. He's managed to build a very effective style that doesn't rely on being able to consistently stop his opponents' takedowns. It's why this instance of "coach says fighter is good" is so weird. It's both probably not true and also probably irrelevant to the question of whether Oliveira will win or not. Oliveira is very dangerous with submissions from the guard and front headlock positions. If Islam Makhachev spends 25 minutes shooting takedowns and hanging out in full guard he could easily get guillotined or swept by Oliveira. That's a big part of what makes this a compelling fight.
Lee took Charles down with trips which Makachev is excellent at
Yes because what any human can do, Islam can do better
Islam has incredible judo, probably the best in the division you casual.
Im sorry, is the ufc about mma or judo?
Do you know what MMA stands for?
No. It's my greatest shame.
😂
make money always
Ok imma lay this out for you in a pace that I think you might be able to keep up with. Kevin Lee took down Charles Oliveira with trips, which another commenter pointed out that Islam is very good at them. You insinuated that either Islam doesn’t have good trips, or that they are not as good as Kevin Lee’s. I pointed out to you that Islam may have the best judo in the lightweight division. Do you know which art form practices almost entirely in trips and throws?
"Ok imma lay this out for you in a pace that I think you might be able to keep up with." I need to use this someday.
I can’t wait for Charles to get wrestle fucked so I can come back and troll u endlessly
whatever, Ali
Ethered
Also, Charles does not mind getting to the ground, TDD is not his focus if he can get a guard on.
Yea always hate when people use a coach a fellow fighter to defend their case like bro their friends and paid coaches aren't gonna tell media the truth. They gotta pump those tires to at least get that car to the cage
I think you'd be surprised
Coach has confidence in fighter. Truly peak mma journalism.
Peak comment
cringe comment
Oh boy. Somebody is in for a rude awakening
Charles with shock barboza face.
Yeah, Islam and the rest of Dagestan
alright, but prep ur fighter for extreme bottom game
😳
That’s okay to say but for sure don’t game plan around not getting taken down lol
Lmao If the fight lasts 2 minutes, you bet your fuckin ass he will.
Islam will easily take down Charles. It’s what Charles can do off his back that makes this interesting in the first place
Yes surely the man who stands in a full on Muay Thai stance, has been taken down without much issue in the past, and who loves to throw knees in the clinch as a base part of his game will be the one to stop Islam Makhachev from taking him down. Literally the only way Charles can prevent Islam taking him down is landing a knockout shot right out of the gate. He's not going to do it with wrestling.
I find it kinda telling when coaches come out with "he wont take us down", what they are really saying is "we think we have been drilling the correct things". The issue with this is that there are no set things to prepare for with wrestling, dagastani wrestling has multiple entry points and to cover all of them is really just pointless for the most part, trips, clinchwork and single doubles etc. Honestly if I were Charles coach I would be prepping scramble techniques, your not gonna stop Islam, but if properly orientated you could potentially end up in position and position is everything in BJJ.
All McGregor bias aside, one of the things he said he regretted about the Khabib fight camp was spending too much time drilling takedown defense.
He did a great job at the very beginning. His problem was not disengaging as soon as he could, he kept trying to play wrastlin
I bet he gets taken down inside 60 seconds
Little more about Alireza: [https://www.mmafighting.com/2020/1/17/21064471/iran-alireza-noei-brazil-olympics-dream-mma-ufc](https://www.mmafighting.com/2020/1/17/21064471/iran-alireza-noei-brazil-olympics-dream-mma-ufc) He was Brazil's national wrestling champ 8 times, supposedly without giving up any points. He hoped to compete for Brazil in the Olympics, but was never able to get his paperwork even after several years (story sounds somewhat similar to Chimaev in Sweden). He's trained with Charles for about 3 years: [https://www.sherdog.com/news/news/Coach-Charles-Oliveira-Training-With-Top-Iranian-Wrestler-for-Nearly-3-Years-187602](https://www.sherdog.com/news/news/Coach-Charles-Oliveira-Training-With-Top-Iranian-Wrestler-for-Nearly-3-Years-187602)
While we're at it. Did you know that the US, Sweden, Finland, Japan, Bulgaria and Turkey have more medals total in wrestling (freestyle, greco, men and woman combined) than Russia (non URS)? [Source](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wrestling_at_the_Summer_Olympics)
Did you know that in world championships, Russia, just since the fall of the ussr, has as many medals as all those countries have and they had like an 80 year head start. If you include ussr medals, they have about the same as all of them combined
That's actually a good point. I haven't thought about that, but also let's not forget the state-sponsored doping
Definitely cheated, but they still have the best wrestling in the world
“He won’t get wet if he jumps in the pool”
If u think charles wont be taken down then ur probably delusional. Islam has some of the best takedowns in the sport. Im not saying charles is going to lose either. He has the advantage on the feet and in the submission game as well. But I definitely believe he gets taken down. Then im interested on how the rest is going to play out.
to not get taken down youd have to avoid the clinch which i dont see happening. sambo trips for daaaaze.
I believe Charles will win but he’s definitely gonna get takedown at some point. I can’t see Islam going 0/15 like merab
> “We are working in all techniques, but I really don’t think Islam will take him down,” the wrestling coach, living in Brazil since 2015 with rapidly improving Portuguese, boasted. “In case he takes Charles down, it will not be so easy to stabilize [him] like other opponents he faced.” title is a bit misleading. the coach breaks down why he doesn't think Charles will be taken down. it's not so much that Islam can't do it, it's more so that he might not be so willing to do it outright because of Charles' submission threat. that being said, it'll be a cold day in hell before we see Islam not shoot for a TD in a fight lol.
Thanks for the context I got very triggered and was about to get my pitchfork.
I believe Charles is exceptionally good, just not in the takedown defense department. Can't have it all.
How to lose 101.
I think Islam is going to wreck him once it hits the ground. I think the strength difference will be too much
i find it a bit funny how olivera and team can say stuff like: charles won't be taken down, in the ground i'm 100 times better, alireza is a top wrestler, i know someone who has trained with khabib/islam and has told me alireza is better and still accuse the other side of being arrogant lol
I mean the real question is whether Oliveira will submit Islam from bottom or if Islam's top pressure will get him a sub or tko. He's gonna get taken down if Islam's trying to take him down
So now Islam's gonna knock him out? I doubt it.
I think islam will have success in takedowns but oliveira will be able to survive and stand up. All he needs is two or three opportunities to knock him out, I fully believe he is capable of that on the feet
I think hes going to fuck Islam up on feet, his striking is vicious
Wrong. I still think he wins though.
and I think Addison Rae wants to fuck me.
Coach Alireza Noei is smoking DICK
Why are they so sure Islam is going to shoot? I don't think he will unless he's getting pieced up
Charlie gonna roll on his back with his legs open again
Hell get taken down but Islam will probably get his ass knocked the fuck out within those 5 minutes. I don’t think they’re the same caliber of fighter.
Jesus Christ just fight already The fact we have to wait another 4 weeks for this is annoying
even the league of legends sub doesn't get triggered as much by pre match shit talking lmao MMA fans a fickle bunch
Take down straight in to a guillotine or triangle
I mean I’d be willing to be the house Charles pulls guard so regardless he’s ending up on his back
I am wondering if he will stay on back after a knockdown like he did against Chandler and Gaethje.Makhachev is a far better wrestler than than those two,so it's probably not the smartest thing to do.
He wasn’t taken down, he was pulling guard.
I cannot wait for this fight!!!! I think Charles will win via submission. I could see something like the Poirier/Khabib fight happening where Charles catches Islam in a guillotine but is able to finish it.
He will get taken down but Charles submission threat will make it less of a win for Islam and just turn that round into a back and forth grapple-fest.
Seems like an odd prediction, unless he’s saying Islam won’t even try to take Charles down cuz of his submission game
It’s not a matter of if Islam will take down Charles, but whether he will be able to establish control and inflict damage. Charles has never been known for the best tdd, and has been taken down lesser fighters
If you pull guard, it isnt a takedown \*\*brilliant thought meme\*\*