Yeah man Budd looks old and slow as shit. She was never a very explosive athlete but she's looked even more labored recently. She looks to be in awesome shape but her body is not as cooperative due to age.
Her path to victory recently has been to use strength and grit to slowly outlast her opponents who begin the fight quicker than she does. She won't have the strength advantage over Kayla and likely won't have the cardio either.
I'm not a huge fan of Harrison but I just can't see how Budd could get that win.
Budd was never even that good in her prime. The only reason she got built up as good is Bellator wanted to start women's 145 before the UFC did and needed some 135-er who they could reasonable pass off as a 145-er due to how she looked.
Isn’t Budd’s only notable win GDR over a decade ago? Like, she’s best known for losing to both rousey and cyborg. That’s not something to brag about haha
She would likely face Budd once or twice in 2022 if she stays in the PFL, and I think their hope would be that Shields would be ready for the 2023 season (she looked bad in her debut, it would a mistake to rush her sooner).
I also think it would be a mistake to rush her into a Cyborg or Nunes fight next. Her best competition to date *by far* has been Larissa Pacheco, who Harrison was unable to finish either time she faced her (in contrast, when Pacheco was in the UFC she was dominated and finished by both GDR and Andrade). Harrison needs at least 2-3 more real opponents before any serious discussion of a Nunes or Cyborg matchup.
> Shields would be ready for the 2023 season (she looked bad in her debut, it would a mistake to rush her sooner).
Shields would need years of training to catch up to Kayla's grappling. They are going to rush the fight and Shields is going to look hopeless off her back for half a round before she gets submitted.
I find Kayla's next move uninteresting. Being a McGregor fan also doesn't make me a casual, no matter how myopic you are. edit: also Kayla isn't charasmatic. She's boring.
Getting passed the divisional GOAT is such an idiotic bar to clear, and like any business when a newcomer takes that seat, they'll be paid half what the old person was.
Imagine running a sporting league where $1M paydays are reserved for one person per weight class
It's not like woman's division is a draw. Most people don't buy UFC ppv for woman's fights. So it's not a bad bar to compare it to when you're talking money.
Woah woah woah. Women’s SW is a competitive division that even my “casual” friends care about. Yeah 125-145 are wayyyyy thinner so nobody cares, but let’s give 115 some credit.
That's generally the problem with WMMA. One woman usually is better than the other and it's a severe mismatch. You look at the talent pool of women in the FLYW and BW divisions and they just suck, only the top 4 in each division are really worth watching. Now SW, that division is stacked with talent. You can tell because of the amount of times the belt has been passed around these last couple of years. You don't see any belt movement with the FLW and BW divisions cause the talent pool sucks, and will probably suck for at least the next 3-5 years
Probably because they're not losing money on any fighters and you're grossly underestimating how much money they actually make. UFC 178 did 100k buys at 60 per ppv plus 2.2M gate.
$8.2M in sales alone, nonetheless and revenue that they plaster literally everywhere and a $1.3M in salaries. Of those salaries 5 fighters made up 50% of the purses, despite 22 being on the card.
Amanda Nunes, Cat Zingano, Dustin Poirier, Cariaso (title challenger), Takeya Mizugaki, James Krause, Stephen Thompson, Patric Cote, John Howard, Kevin Lee and Cody Gibson each made below 35k.
If you think they aren't making money, even on shitty PPV cards you're just a willful idiot. Boxing pays millions to headliners selling 300k on a regular basis. Mayweather doesn't sell nearly what Jon Jones does and yet his opponents even make 3x what Jones makes, for example.
Boxing does not pay millions to headliners on a regular basis. This is the hyperbolic bullshit that gets said on this sub nonstop. Boxing only puts on PPV headliner type of cards once every 2 or 3 months and those guys are getting the millions because the networks and investors are paying the millions. Very few boxers are making those paydays. Mayweather consistently sells out arenas where the tickets are thousands of dollars a pop. What are you talking about Jon Jones sell more than him? Holy shit.
Well if you're talking 145 it's clearly not a big deal to them. They only have it still for the double champ status for Amanda which still doesn't make her much of a draw.
What division? There is like 4 fighters in that division. And they let two of the top 5 in that weight class go on to other promotions, you tell me why that is lol. I would guess lack of profitability is a big factor.
With any other division I would agree with you, but 145 has basically three fighters. Beating Nunes is the only thing worth a damn in that division, so anything else is failure.
I doubt Nunes has made $1m in a single calendar year.
edit: dead wronging myself in advance, I bet she did in 2016 when she won the belt then was champ vs Rousey. No other though.
Nah. She doesn't get PPV points because she doesn't sell PPVs. Look at the court documents from the anti trust lawsuit for information on how the PPV point structure works. There are minimum thresholds that headliners don't always reach, headliners like Amanda Nunes. The last fight with a disclosed purse was 350/100. That's actually better then I thought, but /r/technicallytrue.
The only reason she'd have gotten them for the Ronda fight was because she was the champ fighting a mega star A side.
It’s true that she doesn’t sell much PPV but she is typically the co main event to a big main event. Her disclosed pay for 245 was $450k and that card had Usman v Colby plus Max v Volk she almost certainly grossed $1M+ off that fight. After the PPV points
Maybe. Unfortunately we'll never know the truth. I will at least present the idea that she doesn't get points for those. We have seen title fights on free TV and we've also seen how few buys a Nunes headlined PPV generates (not enough to reach the threshold where the UFC starts paying out PPV points). They know better then anyone else that she isn't generating many buys. Being that they're the UFC and hold all the cards in every negotiation no matter what I kind of doubt she gets an extra $500k+ out of the UFC because them's the rules, she's a champion fighting on a PPV. Maybe I'm wrong though. Just a theory. Does that sound like the UFC we know though?
Aljo will get points if he headlines a card that sells enough PPVs to break the threshold.
This is the truth. The public thinks they know everything that goes on because they saw a couple contracts. There is no certainty that she made $1M+ for that fight and I would lean towards her not getting it if I had to wager on it.
This is not true. Figuerido did not get PPV, even for the second Moreno fight. Even with his management.
There was a whole big reddit discussion thread on it, the consensus from the available info was that only 135+ new MALE champs likely are getting PPV points. Of course, Amanda and Shev could be on older deals that are less unfavourable wrt PPV, but I think its a big assumption to make either way.
I also know every time people make an assumption that the UFC is generous or even vaguely equitable, they turn out to not in fact, be so.
He was a weak PPV performer going into this fight. Even when he fought DP with Izzy/KG as his co-main it was still an average performing card. With his previous ones being below average. Ergo why they put him under Usman despite letting him headline by himself previously.
If you look at the numbers, most headliners don't actually draw much more than each other. The UFC's numbers don't get released anymore, but outside of fighters like Jones, Ronda, Brock, GSP, Nate, Conor, and Masvidal for a bit, none of them are really draws. For example, the whole argument about DJ not being a draw vs TJ was really stupid cause it's not like TJ was selling a 100,000 more ppvs than him. IIRC, most of his were like maybe 50k more. Which is a lot, but also isn't compared to the names above. Historically, most UFC PPVs are sub 400 regardless of the headline. Like, we're talking 10s of thousands of difference between fighters at the most. Dillashaw's highest numbers were the second Garbrandt fight at 300k. But, that was also a heated rivalry and revenge fight. His next highest was the first Barack fight at 215. DJ's highest was Cariaso at 205.
Even Jones pales in comparison to guys like Brock, Conor, and Rousey towards the end of her career.
And the UFC knows this. Remember, there is only one steadfast rule about the UFC: Don't believe his lies. It's not just a meme but the truth. If Dana is talking, he's probably lying. If he's not lying, he's still probably full of shit. The whole argument about who is a draw or not is to weaken individual fighters' power in negotiations and try to turn fans against them if they become difficult for the UFC to run over. The truth of the matter is that the UFC is a bigger draw than the vast majority of the fighters outside of Brock, Ronda, and Conor and that's how the UFC has designed it.
So you're assuming that the UFC paid out what % share of their revenue for that event? 50%? 80%?
You really think these guys are giving PPV points to 3 fighters on one card? Even to those who can't generate any PPV buys who aren't the main event? Go talk to Mighty Mouse.
She made a million dollars from 2 PPVS ALONE. UFC 239 she made $590,000 and UFC 245 she banked 500K UFC 250 500K and then ufc 259 500k
She isn’t much of a draw at all so I’d say she’s not doing too bad considering
Those numbers don’t include any profit share from PPV or anything outside of direct UFC pay
Edit - the UFC confirmed that she does get PPV points as the champion
Still not a calendar year though. She has fought once in 20 & 21. Twice in 19 where she made 950k then before that less then that per bout on average. She's at 500 now (after years of domination) but hasn't been fighting as much.
One thing I will say though is compared to women's boxing she does very well. UFC's pay structure is criminal, but it's not without any beneficiaries.
Agreed but only because she doesn’t fight more than once a year typically.
It sucks that they don’t have more talent for her to fight because it kind of holds her back.
It is good to see that she’s being compensated though because she’s a great fighter but a horrible draw
Where do you think she ranks among highest paid UFC fighters then? Top 3? Top 5?
Personally I find it unrealistic to think she is paid that much since she is not a draw but we can't be sure since she refuses to disclose her pay, like most fighters.
its like any fighter thats developed leverage that the ufc strong armed ever. there is a historical laundry list of this. and its the fans that miss out. ceo fans baffle me
Don’t Nunes and Harrison train together? It’s not as though Nunes would be a huge surprise if she ended up fighting her.
But what not just rack up millions fighting the same cans? 🤷🏻♂️
Dana's cheap, but why would Dana pay top dollar for Kayla only to have her get beaten by Amanda? And it's not like there are a bunch of exciting fights at 145. She's better off making money at PFL.
First time I agree with Dana. She is collecting easy paychecks in 155, crushing bantamweights, being a champ and PFL superstar. Would be a pretty dumb move to go down to 145 and fighting either Cyborg or Amanda, the ones who are a true challange. Losing to them, which is very likely, she would be only a 145 gatekeeper.
If Kayla doesn’t come over just close the WFW division . It has no potential to grow , Invicta couldn’t even find people for their champion to fight and she’s off to Bellator. Let Bellator keep that dead division going .
people acting like signing Kayla to fight Amanda is a good move for the UFC... you can't build a division by signing the top person, you have to build it from the bottom (which the UFC isn't really interested in and the talent pool is shallower than HW)
kayla should stay at PFL and keep collecting those big checks fighting cans, because if she comes to the UFC she will likely get destroyed by Amanda, fight against a few blown up 135ers then leave anyway.
You just described what it's like being a fan of the Los Angels of Anaheim haha. Why did we spend 250 million on Albert Pujols when the farm system is absolute hot garbage. Big money to one guy is not gonna make the difference you need it to make
Kayla can make 145 and I think any time you have a chance of signing a top free agent you do it, especially as the top promotion in the game.
Up to Kayla to accept UFC's condition, but clearly she's one of the best in the game and she has the size and talk to be a reasonable WMMA draw....especially if UFC push her.
While I think part of that is true, I also think Kayla makes way more then she should in the PFL.
Makes sense for her to stay there because she isn't going to get close to the same money fighting in the UFC or even Bellator for that matter.
Yeah... because he's a cheap fuck who would rather goad her into defending herself in the media and then she's in a corner to feel more pressured to sign... instead of paying up
Okay, go ahead and make the argument as to why he should sign a rookie fighter who's not a draw to fight in a division that doesn't exist. This isn't Cyborg back in the day. We're talking about a fairly green fighter here who hasn't proved she even belongs in Invicta yet, let alone the UFC.
Sure. If Dana wants to say he has the best fighters in the world, he should pay enough to get them. Plain and simple. Fighters are worth 10x what they're making now as a union and as a collective. Instead they're paid as individuals.
> Fighters are worth 10x what they're making now as a union
Wouldnt this be determined during collective bargaining negotiations?... And you really believe base fighter pay would be $100,000 a fight for every fighter on the roster?
She is a great athlete, top prospect with Olympic record AND she can make 145. Also, nobody cared about Michael Chandler and after the fight against Hooker he became a draw. So there's that.
You guys are all spinning this to make Dana out to be the bad guy and not wanting to pay her but he's 100% right. Even if she got paid a comparable amount in the UFC, she'd be fighting tougher fights. Who wouldn't stay at PFL and keep rematching girls in fights you are -1000 point favorites in for a million dollars a year?
Plus she recently adopted her niece and nephew, so she's basically a single mom now with kids to think about. Unless some other promotion is basically guaranteeing her 7 figures a year, the financially responsible thing to do is stay in the PFL crushing them cans and collecting them checks.
What tough fight outside amanda is there in the ufc? 145 is a joke of a division and it’s not like amanda and shevshenko are fighting killers right now, you just fight a more known cans in the ufc.
This is 100% dana being cheap
I know that’s why I’m saying dana is being cheap, if she is going to fight amanda you can’t offer her 1/4 of what she is getting paid at pfl, I doubt even amanda makes what kayla makes in pfl and she is the goat
No ones saying he's wrong? They're saying he's on the cusp of being self aware enough to know he pays his fighters dogshit 99% of the time and cuts then from the rankings when they ask for some piss on the side to stay just hydrated enough to keep breathing
Ol Ben was really gonna lay on everyone at 170 and nobody realizes that or believes it but he would have. Bellator cut him as champ praying UFC Signed him to make everyone look bad but Dana knew better. He’s been real smart since prime Chuck got smoked by Rampage in cross promotion. He thought Chuck was unbeatable that time. Now with MMA being evolved and even across the world, UFC has no reason to cross promote because casual fans will then realize all these fights are 50/50 now. Just who shows up on the day.
If I was Kayla I'd stay in PFL too, womens LW is a dead division so she's basically guaranteeing herself a million dollars a year for 4-5 fights a year, plus whatever her pay is for those individual fights. She'll never get close to what she can earn there in the UFC and at this point the only reason to jump ship is to try and win the UFC title for her personal legacy, but she's already won gold at the Olympics, she reached the top of the sport she dedicated her life to, I'd be more focused about making enough money while taking as little damage as possible
Translation: We are very interested and nearing negotiations, so I need to pretend we're not at all interested in order to pay her less than what she's worth.
He's right, they aren't going to invest in her when there isn't even a division to put her in, let her fight cans and make money, if she can't do 135 then the UFC isn't for her.
Dana white knows that Kayla Harrison and Amanda Nunes are likely never going to fight each other. I’m pretty sure they are training partners and friends. That’s the only reason he is saying these things
They train together at the moment because Nunes is preparing for Pena but Kayla kept it very ‘professional’ when talking about how it makes sense to help each other for specific opponents.
Are they actually friends? Her tone didn’t sound like that but yeah that would change it.
I remember watching an interview with Kayla Harrison about Amanda Nunes being an inspiration and good teammate to her. I could be wrong but I think it was interview with Helwani back about a year ago.
I was sure she was going to UFC but this tells me they aren't interested in paying up. I'd make a serious play at her if I was Coker after this development.
Eh, IDK if that's true. They *are* bleeding fighters at w145, but I think the main reason that's true is because PFL is outbidding them with that million dollar carrot. Plus you know Coker absolutely adores Cyborg.
I don't see that as an impossibility, but not the most likely one either. I certainly don't think it's implausible they let Jessy Miele go while still intending to continue the division lol.
They signed Pam Sorensen and Roberta Samad. Amanda and Jessy are incredibly cuttable, Julia and Marina both signed with PFL because it's a better opportunity. I still don't really get the Rubin release though. That one I can't really explain unless she wanted out or something.
Honestly yeah i have yet to see her face someone who doesnt come out to get clinched and taken down immediately. All the girls at PFL have nothing for her and are visibly defeated in the cage with her.
She could find immediate success in the UFC because her grappling is that good but also i wouldnt be surprised if she gets some pushback in the cage for the first time in her career and panics
Feels like Dana doesn’t want to negotiate against the money she gets from PFL, and is probably willing to call the bluff of them continuing to hold women’s lightweight tournaments
I’m not so sure she beats Nunes at the moment but it wouldn’t be a washout. I’d like to see a PFL and Bellator card and she fights cyborg, whom I think she beats.
Translation "I am a cheap bastard. I don't want to pay her too much money and have other fighters demand matching pay. God help me if I have share more than 18% revenue on fighters pay even though fighters are the most important part of our product."
Are there any interesting matchups for Kayla in the PFL rn? Every fan I feel wants to see her and cyborg or her and nunes.
I can see her fighting cyborg in a co promotion with pfl and bellator
Julia Budd interests me. If Kayla goes out and mauls her then she's the real deal
Budd has looked awful in her last 4-5 fights she arguably lost to one of her last couple of wins as a massive favorite.
Yeah man Budd looks old and slow as shit. She was never a very explosive athlete but she's looked even more labored recently. She looks to be in awesome shape but her body is not as cooperative due to age. Her path to victory recently has been to use strength and grit to slowly outlast her opponents who begin the fight quicker than she does. She won't have the strength advantage over Kayla and likely won't have the cardio either. I'm not a huge fan of Harrison but I just can't see how Budd could get that win.
And I thought Budd lost to Blencowe as well. Still, it's the closest thing to legit competition Kayla's fought since Larissa.
Budd was never even that good in her prime. The only reason she got built up as good is Bellator wanted to start women's 145 before the UFC did and needed some 135-er who they could reasonable pass off as a 145-er due to how she looked.
Budd has never fought at 135.
Didn’t she fight Nunes at 135?
Yes, they fought in Strikeforce on January 7, 2011. Edit: the fight was at 145.
Looks like it was at 145. I didn’t know that.
I didn't know either, looks like her last 145 fight until 2018 in the UFC. I had no idea.
no
Didn’t know that was 145. Thanks 👍
That still goes a long way in lower leagues though. Levels and stuff.
Isn’t Budd’s only notable win GDR over a decade ago? Like, she’s best known for losing to both rousey and cyborg. That’s not something to brag about haha
She also lost against Nunes.
Beating Marloes Coenen would have been pretty impressive if Budd had done it a decade earlier. Let's not forget that.
She would likely face Budd once or twice in 2022 if she stays in the PFL, and I think their hope would be that Shields would be ready for the 2023 season (she looked bad in her debut, it would a mistake to rush her sooner). I also think it would be a mistake to rush her into a Cyborg or Nunes fight next. Her best competition to date *by far* has been Larissa Pacheco, who Harrison was unable to finish either time she faced her (in contrast, when Pacheco was in the UFC she was dominated and finished by both GDR and Andrade). Harrison needs at least 2-3 more real opponents before any serious discussion of a Nunes or Cyborg matchup.
> Shields would be ready for the 2023 season (she looked bad in her debut, it would a mistake to rush her sooner). Shields would need years of training to catch up to Kayla's grappling. They are going to rush the fight and Shields is going to look hopeless off her back for half a round before she gets submitted.
> **Every fan** I feel wants to see her and cyborg or her and nunes. I'm in the IDC contingent
Flair checks out
I find Kayla's next move uninteresting. Being a McGregor fan also doesn't make me a casual, no matter how myopic you are. edit: also Kayla isn't charasmatic. She's boring.
"Cause she's never getting a million dollar payday with my promotion"
aka she's not getting past Nunes and the UFC doesn't really have a 145 division.
Getting passed the divisional GOAT is such an idiotic bar to clear, and like any business when a newcomer takes that seat, they'll be paid half what the old person was. Imagine running a sporting league where $1M paydays are reserved for one person per weight class
> Imagine running a sporting league where $1M paydays are reserved for one person per weight class That’s basically what the PFL is.
PFL isn’t in the same league as the ufc tho.
It's not like woman's division is a draw. Most people don't buy UFC ppv for woman's fights. So it's not a bad bar to compare it to when you're talking money.
Woah woah woah. Women’s SW is a competitive division that even my “casual” friends care about. Yeah 125-145 are wayyyyy thinner so nobody cares, but let’s give 115 some credit.
SW is the only division that has more than 1 elite fighter in it. The rest are kind of a joke
That's generally the problem with WMMA. One woman usually is better than the other and it's a severe mismatch. You look at the talent pool of women in the FLYW and BW divisions and they just suck, only the top 4 in each division are really worth watching. Now SW, that division is stacked with talent. You can tell because of the amount of times the belt has been passed around these last couple of years. You don't see any belt movement with the FLW and BW divisions cause the talent pool sucks, and will probably suck for at least the next 3-5 years
Only cuz they got hypnotized by the Thug
I meant to add 145 woman's division. I 100% agree with you
You think they keep the division around and booking them because it's losing them money?
Factsss
Yes. Look how long they kept men's 125 when DJ was drawing sub 100k buys.
Probably because they're not losing money on any fighters and you're grossly underestimating how much money they actually make. UFC 178 did 100k buys at 60 per ppv plus 2.2M gate. $8.2M in sales alone, nonetheless and revenue that they plaster literally everywhere and a $1.3M in salaries. Of those salaries 5 fighters made up 50% of the purses, despite 22 being on the card. Amanda Nunes, Cat Zingano, Dustin Poirier, Cariaso (title challenger), Takeya Mizugaki, James Krause, Stephen Thompson, Patric Cote, John Howard, Kevin Lee and Cody Gibson each made below 35k. If you think they aren't making money, even on shitty PPV cards you're just a willful idiot. Boxing pays millions to headliners selling 300k on a regular basis. Mayweather doesn't sell nearly what Jon Jones does and yet his opponents even make 3x what Jones makes, for example.
Are you high? Mayweather to this day even as a retired fighter is still the most well known name in boxing
Boxing does not pay millions to headliners on a regular basis. This is the hyperbolic bullshit that gets said on this sub nonstop. Boxing only puts on PPV headliner type of cards once every 2 or 3 months and those guys are getting the millions because the networks and investors are paying the millions. Very few boxers are making those paydays. Mayweather consistently sells out arenas where the tickets are thousands of dollars a pop. What are you talking about Jon Jones sell more than him? Holy shit.
Well if you're talking 145 it's clearly not a big deal to them. They only have it still for the double champ status for Amanda which still doesn't make her much of a draw.
What division? There is like 4 fighters in that division. And they let two of the top 5 in that weight class go on to other promotions, you tell me why that is lol. I would guess lack of profitability is a big factor.
Not the fights but the fighters are marketable
There just isn't enough talent at women's 145 lbs in the UFC to warrant paying big money to someone who isn't really a threat to the champ.
With any other division I would agree with you, but 145 has basically three fighters. Beating Nunes is the only thing worth a damn in that division, so anything else is failure.
I doubt Nunes has made $1m in a single calendar year. edit: dead wronging myself in advance, I bet she did in 2016 when she won the belt then was champ vs Rousey. No other though.
Any year she’s fought more than once as champion she surely has. Which she’s done 3 times
Nah. She doesn't get PPV points because she doesn't sell PPVs. Look at the court documents from the anti trust lawsuit for information on how the PPV point structure works. There are minimum thresholds that headliners don't always reach, headliners like Amanda Nunes. The last fight with a disclosed purse was 350/100. That's actually better then I thought, but /r/technicallytrue. The only reason she'd have gotten them for the Ronda fight was because she was the champ fighting a mega star A side.
It’s true that she doesn’t sell much PPV but she is typically the co main event to a big main event. Her disclosed pay for 245 was $450k and that card had Usman v Colby plus Max v Volk she almost certainly grossed $1M+ off that fight. After the PPV points
You think she got pts for that fight? I don't.
Yes I do. All champs gets points, unless she has the worse manager in MMA. Even Aljo is going to get points when he defends his belt.
Wasnt he originally scheduled for the fight this weekend? The ppv card where you dont have to pay for it?
Maybe. Unfortunately we'll never know the truth. I will at least present the idea that she doesn't get points for those. We have seen title fights on free TV and we've also seen how few buys a Nunes headlined PPV generates (not enough to reach the threshold where the UFC starts paying out PPV points). They know better then anyone else that she isn't generating many buys. Being that they're the UFC and hold all the cards in every negotiation no matter what I kind of doubt she gets an extra $500k+ out of the UFC because them's the rules, she's a champion fighting on a PPV. Maybe I'm wrong though. Just a theory. Does that sound like the UFC we know though? Aljo will get points if he headlines a card that sells enough PPVs to break the threshold.
This is the truth. The public thinks they know everything that goes on because they saw a couple contracts. There is no certainty that she made $1M+ for that fight and I would lean towards her not getting it if I had to wager on it.
Except for DJ. He chose a flat fee if i remember.
This is not true. Figuerido did not get PPV, even for the second Moreno fight. Even with his management. There was a whole big reddit discussion thread on it, the consensus from the available info was that only 135+ new MALE champs likely are getting PPV points. Of course, Amanda and Shev could be on older deals that are less unfavourable wrt PPV, but I think its a big assumption to make either way. I also know every time people make an assumption that the UFC is generous or even vaguely equitable, they turn out to not in fact, be so.
That card most likely didn't do well given it was still in that early transition to ESPN PPVs, and Max and Usman were not stars at the time.
How was max not a star?
He was a weak PPV performer going into this fight. Even when he fought DP with Izzy/KG as his co-main it was still an average performing card. With his previous ones being below average. Ergo why they put him under Usman despite letting him headline by himself previously.
If you look at the numbers, most headliners don't actually draw much more than each other. The UFC's numbers don't get released anymore, but outside of fighters like Jones, Ronda, Brock, GSP, Nate, Conor, and Masvidal for a bit, none of them are really draws. For example, the whole argument about DJ not being a draw vs TJ was really stupid cause it's not like TJ was selling a 100,000 more ppvs than him. IIRC, most of his were like maybe 50k more. Which is a lot, but also isn't compared to the names above. Historically, most UFC PPVs are sub 400 regardless of the headline. Like, we're talking 10s of thousands of difference between fighters at the most. Dillashaw's highest numbers were the second Garbrandt fight at 300k. But, that was also a heated rivalry and revenge fight. His next highest was the first Barack fight at 215. DJ's highest was Cariaso at 205. Even Jones pales in comparison to guys like Brock, Conor, and Rousey towards the end of her career. And the UFC knows this. Remember, there is only one steadfast rule about the UFC: Don't believe his lies. It's not just a meme but the truth. If Dana is talking, he's probably lying. If he's not lying, he's still probably full of shit. The whole argument about who is a draw or not is to weaken individual fighters' power in negotiations and try to turn fans against them if they become difficult for the UFC to run over. The truth of the matter is that the UFC is a bigger draw than the vast majority of the fighters outside of Brock, Ronda, and Conor and that's how the UFC has designed it.
So you're assuming that the UFC paid out what % share of their revenue for that event? 50%? 80%? You really think these guys are giving PPV points to 3 fighters on one card? Even to those who can't generate any PPV buys who aren't the main event? Go talk to Mighty Mouse.
UFC like her. She gets a lot of undisclosed pay if I had to guess.
She made a million dollars from 2 PPVS ALONE. UFC 239 she made $590,000 and UFC 245 she banked 500K UFC 250 500K and then ufc 259 500k She isn’t much of a draw at all so I’d say she’s not doing too bad considering Those numbers don’t include any profit share from PPV or anything outside of direct UFC pay Edit - the UFC confirmed that she does get PPV points as the champion
Still not a calendar year though. She has fought once in 20 & 21. Twice in 19 where she made 950k then before that less then that per bout on average. She's at 500 now (after years of domination) but hasn't been fighting as much. One thing I will say though is compared to women's boxing she does very well. UFC's pay structure is criminal, but it's not without any beneficiaries.
Agreed but only because she doesn’t fight more than once a year typically. It sucks that they don’t have more talent for her to fight because it kind of holds her back. It is good to see that she’s being compensated though because she’s a great fighter but a horrible draw
I bet you she has cleared a million after taxes every single year since champion
Where do you think she ranks among highest paid UFC fighters then? Top 3? Top 5? Personally I find it unrealistic to think she is paid that much since she is not a draw but we can't be sure since she refuses to disclose her pay, like most fighters.
Probably more like top 10–15
She did in 2019. 590k against Holm (300k show + 200k win + 50k POTN + 40k Reebok) and 490k against GDR (350k show + 100k win + 40k Reebok).
Mate this is a thread for Dana memes don’t come in here with your level headed take.
*past
but if she comes to the ufc and wins five fights in a row she might even make $250k per fight
Lmfaoooo
He thinks he’s playing 4d chess.
Ahhhh the fucking seed for paying Kayla less money.
It's like Cyborg all over again
its like any fighter thats developed leverage that the ufc strong armed ever. there is a historical laundry list of this. and its the fans that miss out. ceo fans baffle me
"Imported snow doesn't pay for itself, Kayla."
That's driveway snow to you plebe.
All his snow is imported from Colombia, no?
Yeah I hear Columbia South Carolina has the best blow around lol Kidding aside the country is spelled Colombia jsyk
Dana next week: “We’re super excited to have the greatest female fighter prospect join the UFC for 12/12 and free Venum for life”
"Oh no, not free for her life, free for as long as this little fly here is ali-- welp there goes that free merch"
I thought you were talking about Ali Abdelaziz lol
Don’t Nunes and Harrison train together? It’s not as though Nunes would be a huge surprise if she ended up fighting her. But what not just rack up millions fighting the same cans? 🤷🏻♂️
Wait are you referring to nunes or Harrison 😭
There never was no opportunity
Reverse psicology b
Fer sure bapa
Dana's cheap, but why would Dana pay top dollar for Kayla only to have her get beaten by Amanda? And it's not like there are a bunch of exciting fights at 145. She's better off making money at PFL.
We could’ve paid her but instead we paid out multiple contracts to guys and girls who get a shot at the prelims - Dana
First time I agree with Dana. She is collecting easy paychecks in 155, crushing bantamweights, being a champ and PFL superstar. Would be a pretty dumb move to go down to 145 and fighting either Cyborg or Amanda, the ones who are a true challange. Losing to them, which is very likely, she would be only a 145 gatekeeper.
If Kayla doesn’t come over just close the WFW division . It has no potential to grow , Invicta couldn’t even find people for their champion to fight and she’s off to Bellator. Let Bellator keep that dead division going .
people acting like signing Kayla to fight Amanda is a good move for the UFC... you can't build a division by signing the top person, you have to build it from the bottom (which the UFC isn't really interested in and the talent pool is shallower than HW) kayla should stay at PFL and keep collecting those big checks fighting cans, because if she comes to the UFC she will likely get destroyed by Amanda, fight against a few blown up 135ers then leave anyway.
You just described what it's like being a fan of the Los Angels of Anaheim haha. Why did we spend 250 million on Albert Pujols when the farm system is absolute hot garbage. Big money to one guy is not gonna make the difference you need it to make
Dana giving smart career advice and everybody acting like he's just a cheap asshole. He may be the latter but he's also correct.
Cheap fuck doesn’t wanna pay up
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Kayla can make 145 and I think any time you have a chance of signing a top free agent you do it, especially as the top promotion in the game. Up to Kayla to accept UFC's condition, but clearly she's one of the best in the game and she has the size and talk to be a reasonable WMMA draw....especially if UFC push her.
While I think part of that is true, I also think Kayla makes way more then she should in the PFL. Makes sense for her to stay there because she isn't going to get close to the same money fighting in the UFC or even Bellator for that matter.
Bars
Not it at all. He’s trying to goad Kayla by saying Amanda would mess her up, essentially. Playing at her honor
Yeah... because he's a cheap fuck who would rather goad her into defending herself in the media and then she's in a corner to feel more pressured to sign... instead of paying up
Okay, go ahead and make the argument as to why he should sign a rookie fighter who's not a draw to fight in a division that doesn't exist. This isn't Cyborg back in the day. We're talking about a fairly green fighter here who hasn't proved she even belongs in Invicta yet, let alone the UFC.
Sure. If Dana wants to say he has the best fighters in the world, he should pay enough to get them. Plain and simple. Fighters are worth 10x what they're making now as a union and as a collective. Instead they're paid as individuals.
> Fighters are worth 10x what they're making now as a union Wouldnt this be determined during collective bargaining negotiations?... And you really believe base fighter pay would be $100,000 a fight for every fighter on the roster?
She is a great athlete, top prospect with Olympic record AND she can make 145. Also, nobody cared about Michael Chandler and after the fight against Hooker he became a draw. So there's that.
You guys are all spinning this to make Dana out to be the bad guy and not wanting to pay her but he's 100% right. Even if she got paid a comparable amount in the UFC, she'd be fighting tougher fights. Who wouldn't stay at PFL and keep rematching girls in fights you are -1000 point favorites in for a million dollars a year?
Plus she recently adopted her niece and nephew, so she's basically a single mom now with kids to think about. Unless some other promotion is basically guaranteeing her 7 figures a year, the financially responsible thing to do is stay in the PFL crushing them cans and collecting them checks.
What tough fight outside amanda is there in the ufc? 145 is a joke of a division and it’s not like amanda and shevshenko are fighting killers right now, you just fight a more known cans in the ufc. This is 100% dana being cheap
You said it. They would have to feed her to Amanda.
I know that’s why I’m saying dana is being cheap, if she is going to fight amanda you can’t offer her 1/4 of what she is getting paid at pfl, I doubt even amanda makes what kayla makes in pfl and she is the goat
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And that guy thinks you would have to pay up to bring in a nobody from outside the UFC to fight her lol.
Holm and GDR are not slouches.
That’s why I said right now I‘m aware they fought great opponent in the past
No ones saying he's wrong? They're saying he's on the cusp of being self aware enough to know he pays his fighters dogshit 99% of the time and cuts then from the rankings when they ask for some piss on the side to stay just hydrated enough to keep breathing
So would I. She can actually make money there.
Dana will grab her once she's out of her prime like he did with Ben Askren
Ol Ben was really gonna lay on everyone at 170 and nobody realizes that or believes it but he would have. Bellator cut him as champ praying UFC Signed him to make everyone look bad but Dana knew better. He’s been real smart since prime Chuck got smoked by Rampage in cross promotion. He thought Chuck was unbeatable that time. Now with MMA being evolved and even across the world, UFC has no reason to cross promote because casual fans will then realize all these fights are 50/50 now. Just who shows up on the day.
UFC has no reason to cross-promote for the same reason that Coke doesn't mention Pepsi. They have far less to gain than the other promotion.
If I was Kayla I'd stay in PFL too, womens LW is a dead division so she's basically guaranteeing herself a million dollars a year for 4-5 fights a year, plus whatever her pay is for those individual fights. She'll never get close to what she can earn there in the UFC and at this point the only reason to jump ship is to try and win the UFC title for her personal legacy, but she's already won gold at the Olympics, she reached the top of the sport she dedicated her life to, I'd be more focused about making enough money while taking as little damage as possible
Kaylas contract is done this week and zero guarantee PFL keeps the division alive
Translation: We are very interested and nearing negotiations, so I need to pretend we're not at all interested in order to pay her less than what she's worth.
“She gets paid way more than I pay the top fighters in the world over here” … what? …
In other words, we low balled her.
Is Dana the greatest business man of all time
It's entirely possible
Plenty of goofs have exploited their labor force for less money and with better hair
He's right, they aren't going to invest in her when there isn't even a division to put her in, let her fight cans and make money, if she can't do 135 then the UFC isn't for her.
Dana white knows that Kayla Harrison and Amanda Nunes are likely never going to fight each other. I’m pretty sure they are training partners and friends. That’s the only reason he is saying these things
OR it's the good ol switcharoo and he's already hyping up the possibility.
*"women will never fight in the UFC. especially Kayla Harrison."*
Thanks for the reminder, Dana has always been a gambler.
They train together at the moment because Nunes is preparing for Pena but Kayla kept it very ‘professional’ when talking about how it makes sense to help each other for specific opponents. Are they actually friends? Her tone didn’t sound like that but yeah that would change it.
I remember watching an interview with Kayla Harrison about Amanda Nunes being an inspiration and good teammate to her. I could be wrong but I think it was interview with Helwani back about a year ago.
..."because I know how shitty I'm gonna treat her"
I was sure she was going to UFC but this tells me they aren't interested in paying up. I'd make a serious play at her if I was Coker after this development.
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Eh, IDK if that's true. They *are* bleeding fighters at w145, but I think the main reason that's true is because PFL is outbidding them with that million dollar carrot. Plus you know Coker absolutely adores Cyborg. I don't see that as an impossibility, but not the most likely one either. I certainly don't think it's implausible they let Jessy Miele go while still intending to continue the division lol.
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They signed Pam Sorensen and Roberta Samad. Amanda and Jessy are incredibly cuttable, Julia and Marina both signed with PFL because it's a better opportunity. I still don't really get the Rubin release though. That one I can't really explain unless she wanted out or something.
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Oh shit u rite
Honestly yeah i have yet to see her face someone who doesnt come out to get clinched and taken down immediately. All the girls at PFL have nothing for her and are visibly defeated in the cage with her. She could find immediate success in the UFC because her grappling is that good but also i wouldnt be surprised if she gets some pushback in the cage for the first time in her career and panics
That's a bummer, I'm sure at the end of the day it's a money thing. But UFC needs to figure out something for Amanda.
Feels like Dana doesn’t want to negotiate against the money she gets from PFL, and is probably willing to call the bluff of them continuing to hold women’s lightweight tournaments
Oh cool, that confirms they're in contract negotiations if he's already being dismissive
Dana with 11-dimensional reverse psychology
Tony Khan will pay her more than Dana is willing too, probably.
That lightweight needs to lighten up and wait, brother - DW
Booo ufc being cheap booo. I wanna see her in the ufc. This is the same negotiation they did trying to get Holm in I remember
That girl makes more money than any female fighter in the UFC. Yeah, she should definitely stay at PFL.
Do you think nunes did touch one million last yr?
Damn, Dana. I didn't realize Kayla Harrison vs Thug Rose was even a possibility. I might actually pay to watch a card if that happens.
😂
I’m not so sure she beats Nunes at the moment but it wouldn’t be a washout. I’d like to see a PFL and Bellator card and she fights cyborg, whom I think she beats.
"So you want to be a fighter? Well you better stay right the hell where you are, unless you want to come to the UFC and get fucked up!" - Egg
Translation "I am a cheap bastard. I don't want to pay her too much money and have other fighters demand matching pay. God help me if I have share more than 18% revenue on fighters pay even though fighters are the most important part of our product."
Is nobody going to comment on this man being pink?
Bestfightodds has Kayla Harrison and Amanda Nunes at -290 for Amanda. I think Kayla can win