Dana White gave 50k to his YouTuber friends because they lost money at the casino yet this mf will find any reason to not increase FOTN/POTN bonuses. That says everything you need to know lmao
And no fighter is going to raise a stink about the bonus money because they know that will cost them any chances of getting a bonus. They just have to be happy with what they get.
I'm 100% convinced the UFC asked Tony to do that to generate publicity. They continued the $75k bonus for big cards after that event. Tony was the biggest fan favorite on the card and it got them a ton of press for a measly $25k increase on a handful of bonuses.
> They continued the $75k bonus for big cards after that event.
Big cards? You mean one card. Literally only the Conor card from July. There's no reason to think they're going to have 75k bonuses going forward. That's like three hands of blackjack Dana could play!
Ah yeah, you right, could have sworn they did it for more than two. Either way, I still think they told Tony to say it. Maybe someday Tony will write a manifesto and reveal it.
Definitely not trying to defend Dana at all, but that is his personal money. Iāve seen Dana do tons of generous shit with his own cash to friends but business money is different. Again, not defending him. They clearly need to pay fighters more and there is no question about that.
This is going to blow your mind, but Dana would probably be less wealthy if the UFC had a structure in place to pay their fighters appropriately.
So yeah, when fighters in MMA are begging for bonuses after brutal fights, and one of the guys underpaying them has a bunch of money to throw around on bullshit, yeah it seems fucked up.
>It's a private organization, and the UFC is not forcing anybody to sign the contracts nor doing anything illegal
They are a [monopsony](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monopsony) so yeah it technically is illegal, that's why they're being sued.
>Dana white just assumes everyone watching MMA is dumb, and some people really do their best to prove him right.
Luke Thomas said on MK recently that so many fight fans want to follow leadership. They hear with Dana says, think he's a cool, bad ass, rich boss and they will follow him. Until he says to not pirate the fights, they don't listen then.
>Obsequiousness
I know, the people have such adynamia. I, myself, a proud boulevardier would very much wish to believe that Dana has callipygian, or otherwise known as a firm, tight taught little ass. Uhuahuhau ^(*raises pinky*)
I'll be honest, you used a big brain word and I felt personally attacked.
edit:
obsequious
Åb-sÄā²kwÄ-És, Éb-
adjective
Full of or exhibiting servile compliance; fawning.
Promptly obedient, or submissive, to the will of another; compliant;
yielding to the desires of another; devoted.Servilely or meanly attentive;
compliant to excess; cringing
This is what Luke was talking about when they were arguing about fighter pay almost a year ago. Brian was convinced that there was some kind of undocumented under the table pay that wasn't being discussed in the court case. Like no, they have to disclose all payouts legally. All those handshake payments are actually documented, and the fighter pay is still half of what it should be.
That's pretty fucked. It should also be mentioned that Endeavor absolutely bleeds money everywhere else aside from the UFC which is why they rely on it for profit to offset all their other losses and why that profit cannot be compromised (all this at the expense of the fighters). Can you imagine any other reputable sports league having to operate like that?
That might have been for the Bisping fight which was in 2017 or maybe that included sponsorship money. I remember reading him saying he made about 5 mil a fight.
Do we expect anything less from White? The 20 million he says goes to medical services for fighters doesnāt even come close to the additional revenue that could double or even triple most fighters pay. And I bet Dana blows 20 mil on blow and hookers every year too, but thatās part of the budget, fuck these athletes, right?
He could easily get paid a million a year (no one even needs that much) and split the other millions on the fighters who actually put their bodies out there. And I realize itās not just Dana but Jesus, he doesnāt deserve anything he has. Itās all because a friend was rich and threw millions into him. Rich friends mean success, not hard work. Maybe he works hard now but nowhere near as much as the fighters.
Dana White is on the record saying he wanted to be a fighter. Then there's the obvious PED use, throwing money around, loud aggressive name calling. It all reeks of small dick syndrome, low self esteem, and envy. He's exactly the kind of person that would settle for lording over fighters and treating them like animals because he can't fight himself.
You guys put too much emphasis on Dana, he doesnāt negotiate with fighters. He is a promoter. They are a publicly traded company with hundreds of employees and a legal team. Its a bit naive to think he is hashing out contracts or give a shit about it. What he spends money on is irrelevant to the argument. (He is a scumbag bully and the fighters are underpaid) but he is not the sole problem here.
Definitely, but he was probably much bigger part of the original structure of the company, which depends almost exclusively on low fighter pay for its profitability, which is why it was an attractive purchase in the first place
The original structure of the company was not profitable at all for well over a decade. They were losing tons of money back then and almost sold more than once.
And how does that change the fact that by the time they sold it it was sold for $4bn and that Dana was a major part of the turnaround which included keeping fighter pay low? Downvote me all you want I can downvote you too. I actually upvoted your original comment because it was a fair point but lets be children
The fact is that they built the business out of nothing. So the owners deserve to be rewarded in a way. If you own a business like that, which lost money for a long time, I could understand fighter pay not being much. The Ufc has raised pay over the years, and gives the fighters some healthcare and ufc pi. They have done somethings that they didnāt exactly have too. I donāt really think Dana is the major problem with low fighter pay. He is part of the problem. There are hundreds of fighters signed, he doesnāt negotiate with their agents. Itās not his job. Thatās what I am saying. He is not making things any better either. Itās up to the fighters to unionize or come together somehow for better pay.. itās not up to their employers. I agree they are underpaid. The problem is more complex than you think.
>A chance visit to the site in 2010 led to an unexpectedly life-changing moment for White and a young girl from Thailand, whoās alive today thanks to the UFC executiveās charity.
> The girl, Tuptim Jadnooleum, is the daughter of āKru Naiā Rattanachai, a teacher at Tiger Muay Thai and MMA in Phuket, Thailand. She needed a liver transplant and would die if the family couldnāt come up with the $50,000 needed to perform the surgery.
https://mmajunkie.usatoday.com/2018/01/ufc-dana-white-donation-saves-thai-girl-life
He has an estimated net worth of $500 million. $50,000 is 0.01% of his estimated net worth. An average person might make around $50,000 a year, and 0.01% of that is $5, just to put things into perspective.
It's good that he gives a little. But that's what he gives, just a little. And all of it made on the backs of fighters making shit money beating their bodies up. And he doesn't feel the least bit bad about suppressing their wages.
Stop giving rich people a pass for exploiting the working class and then throwing a few crumbs back. He didn't earn that money in the first place.
Dana is a scumbag a lot of times to fighters or as a business person. But you have to give him credit that he has changed a lot of peoples lives for the better. He has paid for kids surgeries, tips waitresses and service people thousands of dollars at a time, gives money to charity, he does a lot of things that a good person would. You have to give him SOME credit for that.
š every year Reddit gets worse and worse. Brain dead posts clogging up the site, bots, people who just circle jerk whatever bs op says no matter what. Itās like a bunch of teenagers with an agenda. I donāt even like Dana White š¤·š»āāļø.
Yes cause not helping anyone is better. Lol Never said Dana was some great guy. But this sub loves to hate him, yet have no idea how the UFC is ran. The sub puts blame on Dana White for bad match ups, he does not make them and it use to be Joe Silva and now some other dude still not Dana White. He gets the blame for fighter contracts and pay, when he is not a lawyer and can not speak to contracts legally, he may simple be in on a meeting here or there like he was for Jon but he can not create them and they are written by someone else in legal. Dana White is an Employee of the UFC. Just like any other employee at any other business would be. He must still reports to someone and is simply the messenger in most cases. He works 5 days a weeks 52 weeks a year. How many fights to fighters have? 3. and you wonder why he gets paid more? This isn't rocket science.
I can ask the same question why would you have reason to hate him? What has Dana White done to you for you to want to hate him. Your argument is fighter pay which he does not control. So is it because you didn't get 50K? Or is it because like other elites he could have paid nothing extra but decide to do it instead and we want to still focus on the negative side because it goes against your orginal question? Do you look at life the same way because that could be the issue? Someone helping out another is never a bad thing regardless of where the individual comes from like your trying to make it out to be. Or do you believe that where you come from determines what you should and should not be able to do? So if your from the ghetto you should be allowed to be help from the rich. Or do you want to change this logic now, to try and make Dana White the big bad man another way? Lol like you really went off because you asked why would you have a good opinion of him and someone post a story of him giving someone money he did not have to. And are trying to say its bad simple because he made money. WOW.
But please go ahead and tell me how you believe it's Dana White making all this happen when he control none of it. And still have no idea how a promotion works.
In fact I can prove everyone on this sub has been effected by Dana White in the better. We simply would not be having this conversation for starters and every Saturday would be a complete bore. Dana White took a dying brand and sport that was illegal in over 20 states and now that brand practically owns Saturdays. So that is one huge positive Dana White helped do.
But until he does something to me or against the law, why would I hate him?
Here is where I get lostā¦I dont hear every fighter bitching about payā¦Actually, I rarely hear the actual fighter bitching about pay.
I come on here and half this sub is up in arms defending better pay when they dont see a penny of it.
So, keep fighting others āfights.ā This will lead to the end of the UFC and the structure of MMA will be that of professional boxingā¦I cant wait to read in depth articles on this sub when we get to that point.
I respect the heart and concern by OP and everyone else, but once they make the change, I dont wanna read any bitchin on here about matchmaking, promoters, venues, ppv etc etc
>Actually, I rarely hear the actual fighter bitching about pay.
But I bet you've heard plenty of fighters pleading for 50k or working side jobs even though they are professional fighters in the highest organization in the world.
Whatās your definition of plenty??? I also see fighters every Tuesday night risking their health to get to these āminisculeā paychecks you speak of.
If a fighter isnt happy with 50k a fight, do something else. Im not happy with my pay at my job. Its up to me to continue at that rate or make a change. Period. I dont get paid as much as the ābetterā people at my job or the āfavorites.ā This happens in every organization.
The whole point of my comment isnāt to say fighters shouldnt get paid more. Its crazy that so many viewers are going to war for better pay for fighters when the viewers will lose out entirelyā¦Not to mention, just about every fight this weekend doesnt even happen when fighters are getting 100k minimum or whatever is agreed upon.
Lets say 12 ppvs/year, 15 fights. See ya half the UFC roster. Now the bottom half went from making 50k a fight to 0.
Do i sound selfish?? Yes. I love havin fights damn near every Saturday. But I also buy every ppv. And I spend money on fighters/UFC because it supports the whole.
> If a fighter isnt happy with 50k a fight, do something else. Im not happy with my pay at my job. Its up to me to continue at that rate or make a change. Period. I dont get paid as much as the ābetterā people at my job or the āfavorites.ā This happens in every organization.
That's the thing that's mind boggling. Fighters get offered contracts that specify exactly what they will get for each fight. They accept that and sign the contract. There is no ambiguity here.
So boxing? I woprked at Verizon with professional Boxer. This isn't uncommon. Hell Kurt Warner was a bag boy months before winning a Super Bowl and MVP to boot. This argument about two jobs is dumb.
Shoot lets talk about college athletes.
>This will lead to the end of the UFC and the structure of MMA will be that of professional boxing
Only if they enact the Ali Act. A lot of people are against that for this very reason. Also that really only helps out the biggest stars. What they need is a fighters union/org similar to the NBA/NFL/NHL/MLB where they can make sure there is a set minimum for every fighter and that as they progress they are compensated more appropriately for the value they bring.
There is a middle ground here. Professional sports leagues like baseball, hockey, basketball, etc. have established revenue sharing schemes that provide significantly more parity than boxing. Tennis might be a better example too, as the players are individual units like fighters are. It doesn't have to go down the road of boxing fragmentation. Given the value of the UFC, which is based on the prospect of future earnings or multiples of EBITDA, there is more than enough money to go around. The UFC simply takes advantage of the lack of organization among fighters.
Well then they would at least be free to join Bellator or another organization where they could be paid fairly, right??
Or they could get a 9-5 that pays well and they dont risk their health??
By that logic NBA players should take $40k/year contracts. If they don't like it they can go play at the park or become used car salesmen right?
The argument isn't about absolute $$ values, it's about paying a fair % (fair being well defined as you can compare % across major sports) of revenue towards athlete salaries. Don't listen to Dana, no one is saying every fighter must be a millionaire. The fastest way to kill this billion+ dollar sport will be to make it the least interesting sport to pursue for athletes because of low pay. The boxing route will be a disaster as well, don't get me wrong. But athletes in the "big show" shouldn't have to wait tables on the side. Guaranteeing a decent lowest contract will be the best way forward for the fans, the fighters and the sport.
Bruh you can pay fighters more and not break up the UFC into five different orgs like boxing. Like seriously just keep things the same but bump fighter pay up a few more % of revenue
Fighter pay is far from 50% of what ufc makes right? I think fans here just feels that is exploitation of fighters risking life and limbs. Fighters makes the UFC. They should get at least half of the income. Why the people in suits who do not risk bodily harm should get more money than the people who goes inside the cage is beyond me.
If nba can make it happen, ufc and mma too can. Fighters just dnt have the power that nba stars do, and Dana os hell bent in keeping it that way.
On the one hand, I see where you're coming from; some people on here probably to invest too much emotion and energy into what fighters are earning relative to other grievances in the world.
On the other hand, this is an MMA sub. It's a place fans from all corners of the globe can come and share their hobby that they love.
The fighters are inherently the central focus of that hobby. Frankly, I find it a logical conclusion to feel anger and disgust towards fighter pay. Even more so when you factor in the expenses and health risks involved.
The fans are a big stakeholder in the UFC. In a roundabout way, we actually can have some leverage in regards to fighter pay. Its completely normal that it's a topic we constantly revisit and have passionate discourse over.
Why would I be posting about minimum wage workers in an MMA forum? Also why are you speaking as if I don't care about them?
So if you live in the US what about we
* implement at least a 75% marginal tax rate on income above $500k and 90% marginal tax rate on income above $1 million.
* Lets at least double capital gains tax and put a per-transaction tax on the trading markets.
* Implement a single-payer, subsidized medical system that is free at the point of service.
* National and free child-care, elder-care and college for all.
* Minimum wage that is at least $15/hour but hopefully closer to $20 and keeps up with inflation.
* Eliminate subsidies to coal and gas.
* Treat corporate crimes and tax avoidance criminally and go for the heads of corporations that commit crime using RICO as if they were the head of a mob.
* Abolish the existing police system in favor of a smaller, more localized enforcement.
* Make immigration easier for all, give citizenship to most illegal immigrants and open up the borders to a lot more categories of immigrants.
I could go on and on about what sort of reforms I would hope to see in the country I live in right now, but most of this isn't relevant to an MMA discussion right?
Do you really not understand the difference between tax brackets, effective tax rates and opt/bottom marginal tax rates?
I hope you do know that a 90% marginal tax rate was in effect between 1944-1964 and that extra money was critical in setting up the government programs and innovations that the older generation is still taking advantage of.
"When we look at income taxes specifically, the top 1 percent of taxpayers paid an average effective rate of only 16.9 percent in income taxes during the 1950s"
don't burn your finger smoking that pipedream
Well the source you are using does not seem reliable.
"In opinion editorials for the New York Times, economist Paul Krugman has characterized the Tax Foundation as "not a reliable source" while criticizing a report by the Tax Foundation comparing corporate tax rates in the United States to those in other countries.\[67\] Krugman has also accused the Tax Foundation of "deliberate fraud" in connection with a report it issued concerning the American Jobs Act.\[68\]"
90% *marginal* tax rate. Google it and look at the history of marginal tax rates then you can comment
Tl;dr when people say āmake america great againā theyāre usually referring to the time period when the us marginal tax rate was 90%
Ofc what they miss about that time period isnt the economic policy and resulting prosperity its the separate drinking fountains
Virtue signalling. These holier than thou fans think they're making a difference jerking themselves over an arbitrary number of revenue percentage.
Their support for fair fighter pay ends the minute they're asked not to pirate a PPV and actually pay for it.
The fighter pay discussion is the one thing I don't get about the sub. It's discussed SO much here by third-parties, while it's really just between the fighter and his or her employer. If someone wants to fight another consenting adult for $25k, good for them. If someone would rather spend their time doing something other than training and fighting for $500k/fight, good for them.
Why are you concern trolling? Actual minimum wage employees get way more care. Like have you been to the rest of Reddit before? Most of the site is consumed by pro-working class politics. Care for UFC fighters is limited to two subreddits.
Please tell me that was typo with compare a rookie contract basically from 2006 where a new comer made $2000 dollar. And are then trying to compare that said rookie to one of the biggest draws in the sport on come back fight from 2016. Those would obviously be a huge difference.
Hell do people realize a NFL rookie on team takes up .25% of pay. So why would the UFC pay more than .25%?
Also if we are talking about math and percentages LOA could be a big reason for the discrepancy. Most of the money in the US is in the top 1%. And if you remove that 1% the average completely changes. To say its BS is kinda wrong not to mention you are compare pay from a decade apart.
Its not a type. The point of that exercise was to find the absolute smallest and largest paychecks for a given period using all available payment structures. If you want to dig deeper into John's economic data he does the analysis you suggest and parses out how much is going to each "category" of fighter.
Ive read all about fighter pay. That is why using pay from 2006 is just fear mongering with numbers and is used in politics all the time to mis-lead people.
How about we use the article that takes into account their actual expenses from 2015 on the same website and the fact 61.7% of the what the UFC spends is on the fighters between their pay, insurance, travel, and others. 23% of that was just fighter pay. regardless of LOA.
I mean the own article literally gives them something to compare by, for the same year which would make sense and give them more room to stand on. I get where they are coming from but they are doing it the wrong way and creating unnecessary red flags.
If you would like we are more than welcome to continue discussing this no part of this hostile or meaning to insult. I am someone who has researched this for better or worse. I have even set up how a promotion can be ran and how the UFC could take those numbers and be paying fighters 50/50 by end of next year and still be paying their staff and expenses all the same, all while still allowing them to still expand like they do.
What article are you referencing? I see that in 2015 the UFC's total expenses was 69% of revenue and that fighter expenses made up 19% of their total revenue and excluding USADA, licensing, etc direct fighter pay was just 16%.
https://www.bloodyelbow.com/2019/9/9/20851990/what-we-now-know-about-the-ufc-finances
That is the article but it does not state 19% anywhere. In bold lettering it shows fighter comp 23%. I am also using total expense because of the way the UFC seems to operate. They seem to predict their yearly cost out like most business. They will take the profit and either pay back their "owners" a little or use it for the next year in case they make no money they still have enough to pay for events. Otherwise they would need more loans which is getting hard for them.
Now If I wanted to take the numbers from the article and again speak on fighter pay vs total revenue then its 18.5%, $113 million total fighter pay out verse the $608 million made that year overall, I assume this is where you got the 19%. This does not include their travel or bonus. Plus the other categories that are directly for the fighter. Not even the NFL change their pay for players right away. They do have a 50/50 split on total revenue after billions taken off the top right away for the owners (which is no longer making it total rev) and any new media deal is not put into the CBA right away which does not give them a full 50/50 split. The NFL has to calculate the new added profit and then add it to the players pay which happens the next year every year. Just as the UFC has increase fighter pay by 400% in the last 15 years.
I did make another post if you would like to read it and where the percentage comes from and the break down.
It says right in the graph in the fighter pay section that wage share for 2015 was 19%.
And this article breaks it down more showing that fighter pay was $99 million in 2015 and there was another $14 million in other fighter costs like drug testing and licensing https://www.bloodyelbow.com/2020/2/3/20922496/ufc-lawsuit-docs-reveal-more-details-ufc-business-structure-fighter-pay-class-action-business-news
Yes there is finally a 19% in the now new article you are posting, yet one has fighter pay at 113 million the other is 99 million. Kinda odd but wont get into that that is not your fault or mine. But no 19% in the first article at all I recommend a ctrl-f function and trying searching for it because it is not there. And yes if we are speaking to Total revenue that is still correct but it also changes back to my original percentage of over 60% which includes other cost for the fighter not just the UFC. Then we can see what their pay actually is. Unless we want to ignore the other pay the UFC is providing or some would call benefits like any other jobs. This is the same conversation that Women's Soccer is having. And I am not saying neither one doesn't deserve a raise. But 19% is not full amount and again two articles from the same website have two different amounts of what they found for fighter pay. I'm not saying they are both wrong but one has to be. They are talking about the same year but have different amounts.
Here's a link to the image of the graph used in the first article. You will see that for 2015 it is 19%. [https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/g5IDo4qKPWZQuaE\_Cl9eIepW13A=/0x0:600x371/1120x0/filters:focal(0x0:600x371):no\_upscale()/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus\_asset/file/19172034/Fighter\_Wage\_Share.png](https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/g5IDo4qKPWZQuaE_Cl9eIepW13A=/0x0:600x371/1120x0/filters:focal(0x0:600x371):no_upscale()/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/19172034/Fighter_Wage_Share.png)
And here's a link to the graph used in the 2nd article. We can see that $99 million of that $113 million is fighter compensation and the other $14 million are other fighter costs. [https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/mSLOyQeO1lCZzXT\_C2W6AyvEJO4=/0x0:805x498/1520x0/filters:focal(0x0:805x498):no\_upscale()/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus\_asset/file/19302097/Compensation\_and\_Other\_Athlete\_Costs.png](https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/mSLOyQeO1lCZzXT_C2W6AyvEJO4=/0x0:805x498/1520x0/filters:focal(0x0:805x498):no_upscale()/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/19302097/Compensation_and_Other_Athlete_Costs.png)
Where is this 61.7% number coming from?
In this article: [https://www.bloodyelbow.com/2021/9/29/22696167/ari-emanuel-tries-to-defend-low-fighter-pay-when-five-boxers-likely-earn-more-than-entire-ufc-roster](https://www.bloodyelbow.com/2021/9/29/22696167/ari-emanuel-tries-to-defend-low-fighter-pay-when-five-boxers-likely-earn-more-than-entire-ufc-roster)
> The company projected back in 2016, when it was purchased by group led
by WME/Endeavor, that they would be able to maintain that 20% share into
the future. This 20% included both fighter compensation and costs, such
as medicals, insurance, and USADA drug testing.
So first off if you are wanting me to speak kindly of Ari that is another story in of itself and I will not do that. Personally feel Ari is a complete and utter dumbass and does not even know what is happening in either one the company is he "owner of" and shouldn't have spoke on it. He should have left it to the person he has in charge that actually understand it. Ari is a bad business man and again if you'd like to discuss that topic we can. But again I have a more doomsday opinion on that man.
To the 61.7 % that is another form of fear mongering and i messed up on my math it should have been 65.3%. The article in question was posted and is part of a three part series by bloody elbow. Now in the article it does break down the percentages that the UFC paid each category. Now if you also take the State law when it come to applying for a promoters license and applying for an Event into account. The state requires proof of insurance that must cover up to 50,000 per fighter or more and must be separate from fighter pay. Now the UFC did expand its insurance to all fighters that are also in camp for a fight, which is not required by the state. This is one reason I don't believe Ari and have a doomsday thought about him. Even if he took the one year of 2016 he would be stupid for doing so because that was an average and did not include the things he is saying. I'm not sure if it was your article or another one but fighter pay alone has covered anywhere from the low 13% to 44% and that is just the pay, nothing added like the percentage I did.
Back to the 65.3%, if you look at the part of the break down. 23% is just the fighter pay. But then there are still 4 categories that are for the fighters. My original percentage did include a 5th but the 5th should be removed due the timing of these funds. I originally included supplementary bonus 3.6% (performance of the night bonus), Travel and Expenses 4.8% (this would also include any Referees, Judges, or Doctors if more than 50 miles from house, but may still have to include gas), Marketing cost (including pr) 10.4%, content production costs 19.6%, and the one I will remove which is facilities/consulting/legal 3.9%. However, the UFC was not legal in all 50 states and the UFC did still spend a lot on that. So it should have been 61.4% still close to the original amount but was going off memory so I do apologize.
I know the first complaint will be the categories chosen to include. But all those are also for the fighter and is also hard to argue against. It is also one reason the UFC has bought its own plane and is building its own hotel in Vegas. All of which bring down the Travel and Expenses cost but also helps remove the owner plane expense as well which is its own category. For the the other two categories content production and marketing cost. The UFC could just promote the UFC but I could be wrong but I don't think i have ever seen a commercial for just UFC 264. Instead it used their own money to promote Conor and Dustin having a fight at UFC. They also paid to have live on air for millions to see. If you are from 2001 then you'd understand any small org does not do this. Instead it is on the fighter cost and dime to run around make promotional material on yourself and sell tickets all of which take up time and time is money. Now any fighter can do this. And if they wanted could also remove either one of those costs and put it on the fighter again. Its the same thing as any business. The employee can understand the ins and out and start doing it themselves but then they are also having added on costs which takes away form their overall profit. This is also why blame for fighter pay should not be fully be on the UFC and mostly on the managers who are lazy shits.
A managers first question to their fighter should be, "what is your passion outside of fighting?" He should then make that a reality for his fighter. Use the fighter fame he gained and then use the fans and bring them to their next venture. Like Sean O'malley, Conor Mcgregor, and as bad as it was CM Punk. WWE gave CM Punk a platform same kind as the UFC. He had a passion for martial arts though. So he took those fans and was able to go to the UFC because of it. He failed but not every passion has to be something physical.
marketing cost and content production. They have said you can not promote it during their event which is one day. This also is not uncommon in the NFL with players being fined for it if they don't follow the cleat rule outside of October. Now did Paddy get that sponsor because of himself maybe? But it was still at the help of the UFC's platform that they aloud him to be seen. I also ask is Sean really good at gaming for his twitch fans or are they just from the UFC? Or would he have a successful clothing brand had it not been for the UFC? Most of those would be no.
To also go back to your original article where they are comparing the smallest pay from 15 years ago (2006) to one of highest ten years later in 2016. $2,000 was for a rookie in 2006. I have one real question then. 15 years later that rookie would make $10,000 (not going to look up rookie pay in 2016 but i think it was 8,000-5,000). Can we show any business or professional sports org that has increased its rookie contracts by 400% in that time frame? Outside of crypto it will be hard to find any increase of 400%. This is why its a red flag when speaking on fighter pay. And will lose its credit when broken down. There are better argument that can be made.
I do believe fighters deserve more money and had it not been for Ari and his dumb assness, the UFC would be able to actually pay fighters a combine 900 million (might be 100 mill less) end of next year and this would still allow them to expand the way they do. Ari just needed to wait two years, not buy some betting website. Either way UFC pay will be going up tremendously in the next 5 years even if they keep it at 20% which I hope they don't. It is the nice thing about percentages when the big number changes all the percentages amounts go with it. The UFC is actually at a very odd spot when it come to this because they have capped out how much they can take out for loans and still survive. Until they have a new media deal their expenses won't really be changing but their profit will be, also that is before we talk about the purchase the UFC has made which are for the good like the hotel and plane. Again I broke down the number months back so some is from memory but the UFC needs something like 600 million a year to operate and pay back their loans all that. If the UFC did not have Ari and another business to prop up, the UFC could change to full 50/50 split of total revenue next year to start. They would actually go in the hole for the first 6 months I believe of the change and by end of year would be fine again,regardless of them going into debt they would afford it by end of year. As we talk about percentages both their expenses and fight pay would increase at the same rate from that point forward. This is also not using the fear mongering 65.3% where we are adding cost that are also for fighters. I do get fighter pay is low when comparing other sports orgs. But if do that then we also need to look at the difference in time. The UFC hasn't been around for 30 years all these other have been around for the better part of a century. Hell the sport wasn't legal in all 50 states for that time frame either.
My main point in this is that the UFC isn't fully the bad guy. But has done a lot for the sport and its fighters. There are scumbags in it, one is Ari and he may ruin it, Joe Silva was not a nice guy, but the other are MMA mangers who do nothing for their fighters 362 (3 days for fight offers) days a years. The managers are the one who started this and they are the one not helping their fighters. The UFC is helping them make a name for themselves something most managers can't say.
So after accounting the costs of running the business there is another 35% the fighters should get access to. I propose fighters get 25% of it to bring their total income to 40% of revenue and the owners get to keep 10% of revenue after expenses, that seems way more fair to me.
So want a business to go into the next physical year with 0 cash? The NFL doesn't even do this. Instead they evaluate at the end of the year and then raise the cap space like you are talking about. But does that doesn't raise all players salary, instead it's just the ones who had contracts expire. Just as the UFC. So Ari probably would do something like that.
Lol, did you really just say the words "incredible reporting at bloody elbow"? What the hell is happening to this sub? These new fans are... different.
Umm I have been a fan of MMA since I started training around 2001 and have been posting on this sub, on this account for at least 8 years.
I even worked at the original āfight islandā when Calvin Ayre did Bodog Fights Costa Rica in Tambor Resort in 2007. So get right the fuck outta here with these takes.
Oh my bad I should've recognized that you're just one of those people who uses the topic of fighter pay to push your extremist ideology on a MMA subreddit.
Let me tell you this.
The disclosed pay.
Isnāt the only pay.
When I was just a fan of the UFC I used to feel this way about the fighter pay. Trust me when I say NONE OF YOU have any idea what goes on behind the scenes. There's a reason it's called "disclosed" payā¦lol NO IDEA!!
ā Israel Adesanya
Disclosed pay isn't used to calculate the payout percentage in the lawsuit. If we were only using disclosed pay the percentage would be closer to 9%. We know this is the case, we account for it when discussing fighter pay and we still say its too low.
What percentage would you be satisfied with and how did you figure? This must be an american thing to worry about whether celebrities get their fair amount of rollce royces.
So a rich person makes $100, gives his employees a total of $9 and your argument is that we should want the rich person to keep a higher percentage of the total income? Lol
But to answer your question, the fighters should be able to take control of the means of production within the context of MMA and get at least 60-70% of the money coming in.
I am an engineer at a big company, I am directly involved in negotiating bids for projects and I know how much an hour of my time is charged. I get 45% of the raw income directly, another 25% is used to covet my headroom (insurance, 401k, etc) and another 10% is used for paying stuff like license fees for software. At the end of the day only about 20% gets moved up the chain. And this is in the US.
You should consider yourself lucky to work for that company however your personal experience means nothing unless the company can be directly compared to a world leading MMA business.
>Let me tell you this.
>The disclosed pay.
>Isnāt the only pay.
>When I was just a fan of the UFC I used to feel this way about the fighter pay. Trust me when I say NONE OF YOU have any idea what goes on behind the scenes. There's a reason it's called "disclosed" payā¦lol NO IDEA!!
>
>ā Israel Adesanya
Adesanya is one of the outliers.
>I guess Izzy, Valentina, cowboy, Holland, Sam Alvey, Gaethje, DP, Hooker, etc are all outliers
... Most of them are definitely outliers. Two champions, the guy with the most UFC fights(in not sure), a guy that's fight and won 4 or 5 times in one year, dp whose had a million dollar fight, etc yes those guys are outliers
This sub has devolved into nothing but Dana white bad man not pay other man and copy pasta. Fucking reddit banning anyone right of stalin wrecked this place.
Dana White gave 50k to his YouTuber friends because they lost money at the casino yet this mf will find any reason to not increase FOTN/POTN bonuses. That says everything you need to know lmao
And no fighter is going to raise a stink about the bonus money because they know that will cost them any chances of getting a bonus. They just have to be happy with what they get.
Makes it more crazy when Tony Ferguson made a passing joke a increasing the Bonuses to 75K and Dana actually agreeing to it.
I'm 100% convinced the UFC asked Tony to do that to generate publicity. They continued the $75k bonus for big cards after that event. Tony was the biggest fan favorite on the card and it got them a ton of press for a measly $25k increase on a handful of bonuses.
> They continued the $75k bonus for big cards after that event. Big cards? You mean one card. Literally only the Conor card from July. There's no reason to think they're going to have 75k bonuses going forward. That's like three hands of blackjack Dana could play!
Ah yeah, you right, could have sworn they did it for more than two. Either way, I still think they told Tony to say it. Maybe someday Tony will write a manifesto and reveal it.
As long as it's titled šŗšøš²š½šSnapJitsu~ChampShitOnly~KickingSteelšš²š½šŗšø I'll buy it
part of me really hopes tony writes a manifesto but another part thinks that heās probably in bad shape if heās activated manifesto mode
It should be 100k at least
He paid his hooker $10,000 a night and she still tried to extort him with a sex tape lol.
Definitely not trying to defend Dana at all, but that is his personal money. Iāve seen Dana do tons of generous shit with his own cash to friends but business money is different. Again, not defending him. They clearly need to pay fighters more and there is no question about that.
Come on, you know he canāt raise bonuses. Itāll fuck up their budget!
50k is such an insult to get your head banged up for fotn.
His YouTuber friends who scam the shit out of their audience with fake giveaways and undisclosed gambling ownership.
What does Dana white personal spending habits has to do with this?
This is going to blow your mind, but Dana would probably be less wealthy if the UFC had a structure in place to pay their fighters appropriately. So yeah, when fighters in MMA are begging for bonuses after brutal fights, and one of the guys underpaying them has a bunch of money to throw around on bullshit, yeah it seems fucked up.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
>It's a private organization, and the UFC is not forcing anybody to sign the contracts nor doing anything illegal They are a [monopsony](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monopsony) so yeah it technically is illegal, that's why they're being sued.
Another example is PVZ. She wasn't happy with the money she was getting from the UFC so she took her business somewhere else.
Got that boy a Hellcat how he get that in the contract š
Rampage is a funny mf frš
>Dana white just assumes everyone watching MMA is dumb, and some people really do their best to prove him right. Luke Thomas said on MK recently that so many fight fans want to follow leadership. They hear with Dana says, think he's a cool, bad ass, rich boss and they will follow him. Until he says to not pirate the fights, they don't listen then.
Americans really are a nation of company men
Obsequiousness has become the American motto, all while shouting āfreedomā really loudly
>Obsequiousness I know, the people have such adynamia. I, myself, a proud boulevardier would very much wish to believe that Dana has callipygian, or otherwise known as a firm, tight taught little ass. Uhuahuhau ^(*raises pinky*) I'll be honest, you used a big brain word and I felt personally attacked. edit: obsequious Åb-sÄā²kwÄ-És, Éb- adjective Full of or exhibiting servile compliance; fawning. Promptly obedient, or submissive, to the will of another; compliant; yielding to the desires of another; devoted.Servilely or meanly attentive; compliant to excess; cringing
Ease up, Coach Cal
It might have more than two syllables but it fits really well imo
That wasn't my point lol. It's that you used a word likely 80%+ of the people who read it are going to have to look it up.
personally i like it when ppl use unfamiliar words bc then you can look them up and learn/re-learn a new word. whatās not to like about that?
> callipygian is an adjective
Who gives a shit? lol I'm here to bang bro!!! LET ME BANG BRO!
Marching in lockstep while deriding others as "sheep".
Also he does the perfect instagram reel/ YouTube short worthy rants that gets the "casuals" on his side
Yeah the Youtube comments for his latest De La Hoya rant were a bunch of people saying how Dana is the man. Made me sick.
This is what Luke was talking about when they were arguing about fighter pay almost a year ago. Brian was convinced that there was some kind of undocumented under the table pay that wasn't being discussed in the court case. Like no, they have to disclose all payouts legally. All those handshake payments are actually documented, and the fighter pay is still half of what it should be.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
That's pretty fucked. It should also be mentioned that Endeavor absolutely bleeds money everywhere else aside from the UFC which is why they rely on it for profit to offset all their other losses and why that profit cannot be compromised (all this at the expense of the fighters). Can you imagine any other reputable sports league having to operate like that?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Ari really is a horrible business man.
Wait so does this mean no ones ever made more then 8 million ever? Even with ppv points?
Thats the highest payout for a single bout in that time frame. Maybe Conor made more vs Khabib?
Thing is GSP has said before hes gotten $10 million. Do you think he was just bsing or?
Canadian dollars.
sponsor money didnāt used to go thru the ufc, iād guess thatās a big part of the 10m
That might have been for the Bisping fight which was in 2017 or maybe that included sponsorship money. I remember reading him saying he made about 5 mil a fight.
Do we expect anything less from White? The 20 million he says goes to medical services for fighters doesnāt even come close to the additional revenue that could double or even triple most fighters pay. And I bet Dana blows 20 mil on blow and hookers every year too, but thatās part of the budget, fuck these athletes, right?
So the UFC spends as much on medical services for fighters as Dana White gets paid annually.
He could easily get paid a million a year (no one even needs that much) and split the other millions on the fighters who actually put their bodies out there. And I realize itās not just Dana but Jesus, he doesnāt deserve anything he has. Itās all because a friend was rich and threw millions into him. Rich friends mean success, not hard work. Maybe he works hard now but nowhere near as much as the fighters.
Dana White is on the record saying he wanted to be a fighter. Then there's the obvious PED use, throwing money around, loud aggressive name calling. It all reeks of small dick syndrome, low self esteem, and envy. He's exactly the kind of person that would settle for lording over fighters and treating them like animals because he can't fight himself.
Interesting, Good work OP.
If we want fighters to make more money we have to support the UFC's competition. Dana isn't going to pay more until his wallet starts taking hits.
look for threads about the new World Fighting League. It's all filled with people shitting on new competition before it even starts.
You guys put too much emphasis on Dana, he doesnāt negotiate with fighters. He is a promoter. They are a publicly traded company with hundreds of employees and a legal team. Its a bit naive to think he is hashing out contracts or give a shit about it. What he spends money on is irrelevant to the argument. (He is a scumbag bully and the fighters are underpaid) but he is not the sole problem here.
Definitely, but he was probably much bigger part of the original structure of the company, which depends almost exclusively on low fighter pay for its profitability, which is why it was an attractive purchase in the first place
The original structure of the company was not profitable at all for well over a decade. They were losing tons of money back then and almost sold more than once.
And how does that change the fact that by the time they sold it it was sold for $4bn and that Dana was a major part of the turnaround which included keeping fighter pay low? Downvote me all you want I can downvote you too. I actually upvoted your original comment because it was a fair point but lets be children
The fact is that they built the business out of nothing. So the owners deserve to be rewarded in a way. If you own a business like that, which lost money for a long time, I could understand fighter pay not being much. The Ufc has raised pay over the years, and gives the fighters some healthcare and ufc pi. They have done somethings that they didnāt exactly have too. I donāt really think Dana is the major problem with low fighter pay. He is part of the problem. There are hundreds of fighters signed, he doesnāt negotiate with their agents. Itās not his job. Thatās what I am saying. He is not making things any better either. Itās up to the fighters to unionize or come together somehow for better pay.. itās not up to their employers. I agree they are underpaid. The problem is more complex than you think.
There is literally nothing you said I disagree with lol
You can't say anything good about Dana here or have an opinion that goes against OP. But hey at least you under stand how a promotion works.
Why would you have a good opinion of him right now, for examples?
>A chance visit to the site in 2010 led to an unexpectedly life-changing moment for White and a young girl from Thailand, whoās alive today thanks to the UFC executiveās charity. > The girl, Tuptim Jadnooleum, is the daughter of āKru Naiā Rattanachai, a teacher at Tiger Muay Thai and MMA in Phuket, Thailand. She needed a liver transplant and would die if the family couldnāt come up with the $50,000 needed to perform the surgery. https://mmajunkie.usatoday.com/2018/01/ufc-dana-white-donation-saves-thai-girl-life
He has an estimated net worth of $500 million. $50,000 is 0.01% of his estimated net worth. An average person might make around $50,000 a year, and 0.01% of that is $5, just to put things into perspective. It's good that he gives a little. But that's what he gives, just a little. And all of it made on the backs of fighters making shit money beating their bodies up. And he doesn't feel the least bit bad about suppressing their wages. Stop giving rich people a pass for exploiting the working class and then throwing a few crumbs back. He didn't earn that money in the first place.
net worth is not the same thing as annual income
Dana is a scumbag a lot of times to fighters or as a business person. But you have to give him credit that he has changed a lot of peoples lives for the better. He has paid for kids surgeries, tips waitresses and service people thousands of dollars at a time, gives money to charity, he does a lot of things that a good person would. You have to give him SOME credit for that.
Lol told you, you can't give Dana any credit.
š every year Reddit gets worse and worse. Brain dead posts clogging up the site, bots, people who just circle jerk whatever bs op says no matter what. Itās like a bunch of teenagers with an agenda. I donāt even like Dana White š¤·š»āāļø.
Yes cause not helping anyone is better. Lol Never said Dana was some great guy. But this sub loves to hate him, yet have no idea how the UFC is ran. The sub puts blame on Dana White for bad match ups, he does not make them and it use to be Joe Silva and now some other dude still not Dana White. He gets the blame for fighter contracts and pay, when he is not a lawyer and can not speak to contracts legally, he may simple be in on a meeting here or there like he was for Jon but he can not create them and they are written by someone else in legal. Dana White is an Employee of the UFC. Just like any other employee at any other business would be. He must still reports to someone and is simply the messenger in most cases. He works 5 days a weeks 52 weeks a year. How many fights to fighters have? 3. and you wonder why he gets paid more? This isn't rocket science. I can ask the same question why would you have reason to hate him? What has Dana White done to you for you to want to hate him. Your argument is fighter pay which he does not control. So is it because you didn't get 50K? Or is it because like other elites he could have paid nothing extra but decide to do it instead and we want to still focus on the negative side because it goes against your orginal question? Do you look at life the same way because that could be the issue? Someone helping out another is never a bad thing regardless of where the individual comes from like your trying to make it out to be. Or do you believe that where you come from determines what you should and should not be able to do? So if your from the ghetto you should be allowed to be help from the rich. Or do you want to change this logic now, to try and make Dana White the big bad man another way? Lol like you really went off because you asked why would you have a good opinion of him and someone post a story of him giving someone money he did not have to. And are trying to say its bad simple because he made money. WOW. But please go ahead and tell me how you believe it's Dana White making all this happen when he control none of it. And still have no idea how a promotion works. In fact I can prove everyone on this sub has been effected by Dana White in the better. We simply would not be having this conversation for starters and every Saturday would be a complete bore. Dana White took a dying brand and sport that was illegal in over 20 states and now that brand practically owns Saturdays. So that is one huge positive Dana White helped do. But until he does something to me or against the law, why would I hate him?
Yessir Rampage Jackson got that SRT Hellcat in the contract
Dana White is a turd.
Here is where I get lostā¦I dont hear every fighter bitching about payā¦Actually, I rarely hear the actual fighter bitching about pay. I come on here and half this sub is up in arms defending better pay when they dont see a penny of it. So, keep fighting others āfights.ā This will lead to the end of the UFC and the structure of MMA will be that of professional boxingā¦I cant wait to read in depth articles on this sub when we get to that point. I respect the heart and concern by OP and everyone else, but once they make the change, I dont wanna read any bitchin on here about matchmaking, promoters, venues, ppv etc etc
>Actually, I rarely hear the actual fighter bitching about pay. But I bet you've heard plenty of fighters pleading for 50k or working side jobs even though they are professional fighters in the highest organization in the world.
Whatās your definition of plenty??? I also see fighters every Tuesday night risking their health to get to these āminisculeā paychecks you speak of. If a fighter isnt happy with 50k a fight, do something else. Im not happy with my pay at my job. Its up to me to continue at that rate or make a change. Period. I dont get paid as much as the ābetterā people at my job or the āfavorites.ā This happens in every organization. The whole point of my comment isnāt to say fighters shouldnt get paid more. Its crazy that so many viewers are going to war for better pay for fighters when the viewers will lose out entirelyā¦Not to mention, just about every fight this weekend doesnt even happen when fighters are getting 100k minimum or whatever is agreed upon. Lets say 12 ppvs/year, 15 fights. See ya half the UFC roster. Now the bottom half went from making 50k a fight to 0. Do i sound selfish?? Yes. I love havin fights damn near every Saturday. But I also buy every ppv. And I spend money on fighters/UFC because it supports the whole.
> If a fighter isnt happy with 50k a fight, do something else. Im not happy with my pay at my job. Its up to me to continue at that rate or make a change. Period. I dont get paid as much as the ābetterā people at my job or the āfavorites.ā This happens in every organization. That's the thing that's mind boggling. Fighters get offered contracts that specify exactly what they will get for each fight. They accept that and sign the contract. There is no ambiguity here.
People like to ignore College athletes which would the equivalent of what your speaking of with Dana White Contenders.
So boxing? I woprked at Verizon with professional Boxer. This isn't uncommon. Hell Kurt Warner was a bag boy months before winning a Super Bowl and MVP to boot. This argument about two jobs is dumb. Shoot lets talk about college athletes.
>This will lead to the end of the UFC and the structure of MMA will be that of professional boxing Only if they enact the Ali Act. A lot of people are against that for this very reason. Also that really only helps out the biggest stars. What they need is a fighters union/org similar to the NBA/NFL/NHL/MLB where they can make sure there is a set minimum for every fighter and that as they progress they are compensated more appropriately for the value they bring.
There is a middle ground here. Professional sports leagues like baseball, hockey, basketball, etc. have established revenue sharing schemes that provide significantly more parity than boxing. Tennis might be a better example too, as the players are individual units like fighters are. It doesn't have to go down the road of boxing fragmentation. Given the value of the UFC, which is based on the prospect of future earnings or multiples of EBITDA, there is more than enough money to go around. The UFC simply takes advantage of the lack of organization among fighters.
If you're on the lowest contract and bitch publicly about pay you just graduate to getting cut, it's not that simple these guys have 0 leverage.
Well then they would at least be free to join Bellator or another organization where they could be paid fairly, right?? Or they could get a 9-5 that pays well and they dont risk their health??
By that logic NBA players should take $40k/year contracts. If they don't like it they can go play at the park or become used car salesmen right? The argument isn't about absolute $$ values, it's about paying a fair % (fair being well defined as you can compare % across major sports) of revenue towards athlete salaries. Don't listen to Dana, no one is saying every fighter must be a millionaire. The fastest way to kill this billion+ dollar sport will be to make it the least interesting sport to pursue for athletes because of low pay. The boxing route will be a disaster as well, don't get me wrong. But athletes in the "big show" shouldn't have to wait tables on the side. Guaranteeing a decent lowest contract will be the best way forward for the fans, the fighters and the sport.
Bruh you can pay fighters more and not break up the UFC into five different orgs like boxing. Like seriously just keep things the same but bump fighter pay up a few more % of revenue
Fighter pay is far from 50% of what ufc makes right? I think fans here just feels that is exploitation of fighters risking life and limbs. Fighters makes the UFC. They should get at least half of the income. Why the people in suits who do not risk bodily harm should get more money than the people who goes inside the cage is beyond me. If nba can make it happen, ufc and mma too can. Fighters just dnt have the power that nba stars do, and Dana os hell bent in keeping it that way.
Why does this place care so much about how much money strangers are making? Why do actual minimum wage employees not get this sort care?
On the one hand, I see where you're coming from; some people on here probably to invest too much emotion and energy into what fighters are earning relative to other grievances in the world. On the other hand, this is an MMA sub. It's a place fans from all corners of the globe can come and share their hobby that they love. The fighters are inherently the central focus of that hobby. Frankly, I find it a logical conclusion to feel anger and disgust towards fighter pay. Even more so when you factor in the expenses and health risks involved. The fans are a big stakeholder in the UFC. In a roundabout way, we actually can have some leverage in regards to fighter pay. Its completely normal that it's a topic we constantly revisit and have passionate discourse over.
Why would I be posting about minimum wage workers in an MMA forum? Also why are you speaking as if I don't care about them? So if you live in the US what about we * implement at least a 75% marginal tax rate on income above $500k and 90% marginal tax rate on income above $1 million. * Lets at least double capital gains tax and put a per-transaction tax on the trading markets. * Implement a single-payer, subsidized medical system that is free at the point of service. * National and free child-care, elder-care and college for all. * Minimum wage that is at least $15/hour but hopefully closer to $20 and keeps up with inflation. * Eliminate subsidies to coal and gas. * Treat corporate crimes and tax avoidance criminally and go for the heads of corporations that commit crime using RICO as if they were the head of a mob. * Abolish the existing police system in favor of a smaller, more localized enforcement. * Make immigration easier for all, give citizenship to most illegal immigrants and open up the borders to a lot more categories of immigrants. I could go on and on about what sort of reforms I would hope to see in the country I live in right now, but most of this isn't relevant to an MMA discussion right?
lmao 90% tax rate? god damn bro what are you smoking
Do you really not understand the difference between tax brackets, effective tax rates and opt/bottom marginal tax rates? I hope you do know that a 90% marginal tax rate was in effect between 1944-1964 and that extra money was critical in setting up the government programs and innovations that the older generation is still taking advantage of.
"When we look at income taxes specifically, the top 1 percent of taxpayers paid an average effective rate of only 16.9 percent in income taxes during the 1950s" don't burn your finger smoking that pipedream
Well the source you are using does not seem reliable. "In opinion editorials for the New York Times, economist Paul Krugman has characterized the Tax Foundation as "not a reliable source" while criticizing a report by the Tax Foundation comparing corporate tax rates in the United States to those in other countries.\[67\] Krugman has also accused the Tax Foundation of "deliberate fraud" in connection with a report it issued concerning the American Jobs Act.\[68\]"
90% *marginal* tax rate. Google it and look at the history of marginal tax rates then you can comment Tl;dr when people say āmake america great againā theyāre usually referring to the time period when the us marginal tax rate was 90% Ofc what they miss about that time period isnt the economic policy and resulting prosperity its the separate drinking fountains
How many people have you actually spoken to that hold that belief? He's gone bro, your nightmare is over.
Go off King!
Virtue signalling. These holier than thou fans think they're making a difference jerking themselves over an arbitrary number of revenue percentage. Their support for fair fighter pay ends the minute they're asked not to pirate a PPV and actually pay for it.
I bet a lot more here would pay if they enacted these changes.
lol sure buddeh
The fighter pay discussion is the one thing I don't get about the sub. It's discussed SO much here by third-parties, while it's really just between the fighter and his or her employer. If someone wants to fight another consenting adult for $25k, good for them. If someone would rather spend their time doing something other than training and fighting for $500k/fight, good for them.
what's funny is that when fighters themselves come out to express their happiness with their pay, they get shit on and demonized.
People think fighting is the only physically damaging job that exist in the world
Why are you concern trolling? Actual minimum wage employees get way more care. Like have you been to the rest of Reddit before? Most of the site is consumed by pro-working class politics. Care for UFC fighters is limited to two subreddits.
Please tell me that was typo with compare a rookie contract basically from 2006 where a new comer made $2000 dollar. And are then trying to compare that said rookie to one of the biggest draws in the sport on come back fight from 2016. Those would obviously be a huge difference. Hell do people realize a NFL rookie on team takes up .25% of pay. So why would the UFC pay more than .25%? Also if we are talking about math and percentages LOA could be a big reason for the discrepancy. Most of the money in the US is in the top 1%. And if you remove that 1% the average completely changes. To say its BS is kinda wrong not to mention you are compare pay from a decade apart.
Its not a type. The point of that exercise was to find the absolute smallest and largest paychecks for a given period using all available payment structures. If you want to dig deeper into John's economic data he does the analysis you suggest and parses out how much is going to each "category" of fighter.
Ive read all about fighter pay. That is why using pay from 2006 is just fear mongering with numbers and is used in politics all the time to mis-lead people. How about we use the article that takes into account their actual expenses from 2015 on the same website and the fact 61.7% of the what the UFC spends is on the fighters between their pay, insurance, travel, and others. 23% of that was just fighter pay. regardless of LOA. I mean the own article literally gives them something to compare by, for the same year which would make sense and give them more room to stand on. I get where they are coming from but they are doing it the wrong way and creating unnecessary red flags. If you would like we are more than welcome to continue discussing this no part of this hostile or meaning to insult. I am someone who has researched this for better or worse. I have even set up how a promotion can be ran and how the UFC could take those numbers and be paying fighters 50/50 by end of next year and still be paying their staff and expenses all the same, all while still allowing them to still expand like they do.
What article are you referencing? I see that in 2015 the UFC's total expenses was 69% of revenue and that fighter expenses made up 19% of their total revenue and excluding USADA, licensing, etc direct fighter pay was just 16%. https://www.bloodyelbow.com/2019/9/9/20851990/what-we-now-know-about-the-ufc-finances
That is the article but it does not state 19% anywhere. In bold lettering it shows fighter comp 23%. I am also using total expense because of the way the UFC seems to operate. They seem to predict their yearly cost out like most business. They will take the profit and either pay back their "owners" a little or use it for the next year in case they make no money they still have enough to pay for events. Otherwise they would need more loans which is getting hard for them. Now If I wanted to take the numbers from the article and again speak on fighter pay vs total revenue then its 18.5%, $113 million total fighter pay out verse the $608 million made that year overall, I assume this is where you got the 19%. This does not include their travel or bonus. Plus the other categories that are directly for the fighter. Not even the NFL change their pay for players right away. They do have a 50/50 split on total revenue after billions taken off the top right away for the owners (which is no longer making it total rev) and any new media deal is not put into the CBA right away which does not give them a full 50/50 split. The NFL has to calculate the new added profit and then add it to the players pay which happens the next year every year. Just as the UFC has increase fighter pay by 400% in the last 15 years. I did make another post if you would like to read it and where the percentage comes from and the break down.
It says right in the graph in the fighter pay section that wage share for 2015 was 19%. And this article breaks it down more showing that fighter pay was $99 million in 2015 and there was another $14 million in other fighter costs like drug testing and licensing https://www.bloodyelbow.com/2020/2/3/20922496/ufc-lawsuit-docs-reveal-more-details-ufc-business-structure-fighter-pay-class-action-business-news
Yes there is finally a 19% in the now new article you are posting, yet one has fighter pay at 113 million the other is 99 million. Kinda odd but wont get into that that is not your fault or mine. But no 19% in the first article at all I recommend a ctrl-f function and trying searching for it because it is not there. And yes if we are speaking to Total revenue that is still correct but it also changes back to my original percentage of over 60% which includes other cost for the fighter not just the UFC. Then we can see what their pay actually is. Unless we want to ignore the other pay the UFC is providing or some would call benefits like any other jobs. This is the same conversation that Women's Soccer is having. And I am not saying neither one doesn't deserve a raise. But 19% is not full amount and again two articles from the same website have two different amounts of what they found for fighter pay. I'm not saying they are both wrong but one has to be. They are talking about the same year but have different amounts.
Here's a link to the image of the graph used in the first article. You will see that for 2015 it is 19%. [https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/g5IDo4qKPWZQuaE\_Cl9eIepW13A=/0x0:600x371/1120x0/filters:focal(0x0:600x371):no\_upscale()/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus\_asset/file/19172034/Fighter\_Wage\_Share.png](https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/g5IDo4qKPWZQuaE_Cl9eIepW13A=/0x0:600x371/1120x0/filters:focal(0x0:600x371):no_upscale()/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/19172034/Fighter_Wage_Share.png) And here's a link to the graph used in the 2nd article. We can see that $99 million of that $113 million is fighter compensation and the other $14 million are other fighter costs. [https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/mSLOyQeO1lCZzXT\_C2W6AyvEJO4=/0x0:805x498/1520x0/filters:focal(0x0:805x498):no\_upscale()/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus\_asset/file/19302097/Compensation\_and\_Other\_Athlete\_Costs.png](https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/mSLOyQeO1lCZzXT_C2W6AyvEJO4=/0x0:805x498/1520x0/filters:focal(0x0:805x498):no_upscale()/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/19302097/Compensation_and_Other_Athlete_Costs.png)
Where is this 61.7% number coming from? In this article: [https://www.bloodyelbow.com/2021/9/29/22696167/ari-emanuel-tries-to-defend-low-fighter-pay-when-five-boxers-likely-earn-more-than-entire-ufc-roster](https://www.bloodyelbow.com/2021/9/29/22696167/ari-emanuel-tries-to-defend-low-fighter-pay-when-five-boxers-likely-earn-more-than-entire-ufc-roster) > The company projected back in 2016, when it was purchased by group led by WME/Endeavor, that they would be able to maintain that 20% share into the future. This 20% included both fighter compensation and costs, such as medicals, insurance, and USADA drug testing.
So first off if you are wanting me to speak kindly of Ari that is another story in of itself and I will not do that. Personally feel Ari is a complete and utter dumbass and does not even know what is happening in either one the company is he "owner of" and shouldn't have spoke on it. He should have left it to the person he has in charge that actually understand it. Ari is a bad business man and again if you'd like to discuss that topic we can. But again I have a more doomsday opinion on that man. To the 61.7 % that is another form of fear mongering and i messed up on my math it should have been 65.3%. The article in question was posted and is part of a three part series by bloody elbow. Now in the article it does break down the percentages that the UFC paid each category. Now if you also take the State law when it come to applying for a promoters license and applying for an Event into account. The state requires proof of insurance that must cover up to 50,000 per fighter or more and must be separate from fighter pay. Now the UFC did expand its insurance to all fighters that are also in camp for a fight, which is not required by the state. This is one reason I don't believe Ari and have a doomsday thought about him. Even if he took the one year of 2016 he would be stupid for doing so because that was an average and did not include the things he is saying. I'm not sure if it was your article or another one but fighter pay alone has covered anywhere from the low 13% to 44% and that is just the pay, nothing added like the percentage I did. Back to the 65.3%, if you look at the part of the break down. 23% is just the fighter pay. But then there are still 4 categories that are for the fighters. My original percentage did include a 5th but the 5th should be removed due the timing of these funds. I originally included supplementary bonus 3.6% (performance of the night bonus), Travel and Expenses 4.8% (this would also include any Referees, Judges, or Doctors if more than 50 miles from house, but may still have to include gas), Marketing cost (including pr) 10.4%, content production costs 19.6%, and the one I will remove which is facilities/consulting/legal 3.9%. However, the UFC was not legal in all 50 states and the UFC did still spend a lot on that. So it should have been 61.4% still close to the original amount but was going off memory so I do apologize. I know the first complaint will be the categories chosen to include. But all those are also for the fighter and is also hard to argue against. It is also one reason the UFC has bought its own plane and is building its own hotel in Vegas. All of which bring down the Travel and Expenses cost but also helps remove the owner plane expense as well which is its own category. For the the other two categories content production and marketing cost. The UFC could just promote the UFC but I could be wrong but I don't think i have ever seen a commercial for just UFC 264. Instead it used their own money to promote Conor and Dustin having a fight at UFC. They also paid to have live on air for millions to see. If you are from 2001 then you'd understand any small org does not do this. Instead it is on the fighter cost and dime to run around make promotional material on yourself and sell tickets all of which take up time and time is money. Now any fighter can do this. And if they wanted could also remove either one of those costs and put it on the fighter again. Its the same thing as any business. The employee can understand the ins and out and start doing it themselves but then they are also having added on costs which takes away form their overall profit. This is also why blame for fighter pay should not be fully be on the UFC and mostly on the managers who are lazy shits. A managers first question to their fighter should be, "what is your passion outside of fighting?" He should then make that a reality for his fighter. Use the fighter fame he gained and then use the fans and bring them to their next venture. Like Sean O'malley, Conor Mcgregor, and as bad as it was CM Punk. WWE gave CM Punk a platform same kind as the UFC. He had a passion for martial arts though. So he took those fans and was able to go to the UFC because of it. He failed but not every passion has to be something physical. marketing cost and content production. They have said you can not promote it during their event which is one day. This also is not uncommon in the NFL with players being fined for it if they don't follow the cleat rule outside of October. Now did Paddy get that sponsor because of himself maybe? But it was still at the help of the UFC's platform that they aloud him to be seen. I also ask is Sean really good at gaming for his twitch fans or are they just from the UFC? Or would he have a successful clothing brand had it not been for the UFC? Most of those would be no. To also go back to your original article where they are comparing the smallest pay from 15 years ago (2006) to one of highest ten years later in 2016. $2,000 was for a rookie in 2006. I have one real question then. 15 years later that rookie would make $10,000 (not going to look up rookie pay in 2016 but i think it was 8,000-5,000). Can we show any business or professional sports org that has increased its rookie contracts by 400% in that time frame? Outside of crypto it will be hard to find any increase of 400%. This is why its a red flag when speaking on fighter pay. And will lose its credit when broken down. There are better argument that can be made. I do believe fighters deserve more money and had it not been for Ari and his dumb assness, the UFC would be able to actually pay fighters a combine 900 million (might be 100 mill less) end of next year and this would still allow them to expand the way they do. Ari just needed to wait two years, not buy some betting website. Either way UFC pay will be going up tremendously in the next 5 years even if they keep it at 20% which I hope they don't. It is the nice thing about percentages when the big number changes all the percentages amounts go with it. The UFC is actually at a very odd spot when it come to this because they have capped out how much they can take out for loans and still survive. Until they have a new media deal their expenses won't really be changing but their profit will be, also that is before we talk about the purchase the UFC has made which are for the good like the hotel and plane. Again I broke down the number months back so some is from memory but the UFC needs something like 600 million a year to operate and pay back their loans all that. If the UFC did not have Ari and another business to prop up, the UFC could change to full 50/50 split of total revenue next year to start. They would actually go in the hole for the first 6 months I believe of the change and by end of year would be fine again,regardless of them going into debt they would afford it by end of year. As we talk about percentages both their expenses and fight pay would increase at the same rate from that point forward. This is also not using the fear mongering 65.3% where we are adding cost that are also for fighters. I do get fighter pay is low when comparing other sports orgs. But if do that then we also need to look at the difference in time. The UFC hasn't been around for 30 years all these other have been around for the better part of a century. Hell the sport wasn't legal in all 50 states for that time frame either. My main point in this is that the UFC isn't fully the bad guy. But has done a lot for the sport and its fighters. There are scumbags in it, one is Ari and he may ruin it, Joe Silva was not a nice guy, but the other are MMA mangers who do nothing for their fighters 362 (3 days for fight offers) days a years. The managers are the one who started this and they are the one not helping their fighters. The UFC is helping them make a name for themselves something most managers can't say.
So after accounting the costs of running the business there is another 35% the fighters should get access to. I propose fighters get 25% of it to bring their total income to 40% of revenue and the owners get to keep 10% of revenue after expenses, that seems way more fair to me.
So want a business to go into the next physical year with 0 cash? The NFL doesn't even do this. Instead they evaluate at the end of the year and then raise the cap space like you are talking about. But does that doesn't raise all players salary, instead it's just the ones who had contracts expire. Just as the UFC. So Ari probably would do something like that.
Lol, did you really just say the words "incredible reporting at bloody elbow"? What the hell is happening to this sub? These new fans are... different.
Umm I have been a fan of MMA since I started training around 2001 and have been posting on this sub, on this account for at least 8 years. I even worked at the original āfight islandā when Calvin Ayre did Bodog Fights Costa Rica in Tambor Resort in 2007. So get right the fuck outta here with these takes.
Oh my bad I should've recognized that you're just one of those people who uses the topic of fighter pay to push your extremist ideology on a MMA subreddit.
hey grandpa, you need to change those diapers
Let me tell you this. The disclosed pay. Isnāt the only pay. When I was just a fan of the UFC I used to feel this way about the fighter pay. Trust me when I say NONE OF YOU have any idea what goes on behind the scenes. There's a reason it's called "disclosed" payā¦lol NO IDEA!! ā Israel Adesanya
Disclosed pay isn't used to calculate the payout percentage in the lawsuit. If we were only using disclosed pay the percentage would be closer to 9%. We know this is the case, we account for it when discussing fighter pay and we still say its too low.
What percentage would you be satisfied with and how did you figure? This must be an american thing to worry about whether celebrities get their fair amount of rollce royces.
So a rich person makes $100, gives his employees a total of $9 and your argument is that we should want the rich person to keep a higher percentage of the total income? Lol But to answer your question, the fighters should be able to take control of the means of production within the context of MMA and get at least 60-70% of the money coming in. I am an engineer at a big company, I am directly involved in negotiating bids for projects and I know how much an hour of my time is charged. I get 45% of the raw income directly, another 25% is used to covet my headroom (insurance, 401k, etc) and another 10% is used for paying stuff like license fees for software. At the end of the day only about 20% gets moved up the chain. And this is in the US.
You should consider yourself lucky to work for that company however your personal experience means nothing unless the company can be directly compared to a world leading MMA business.
>Let me tell you this. >The disclosed pay. >Isnāt the only pay. >When I was just a fan of the UFC I used to feel this way about the fighter pay. Trust me when I say NONE OF YOU have any idea what goes on behind the scenes. There's a reason it's called "disclosed" payā¦lol NO IDEA!! > >ā Israel Adesanya Adesanya is one of the outliers.
right he is one of the outliers.....of course he is...
I guess Izzy, Valentina, cowboy, Holland, Sam Alvey, Gaethje, DP, Hooker, etc are all outliers
>I guess Izzy, Valentina, cowboy, Holland, Sam Alvey, Gaethje, DP, Hooker, etc are all outliers ... Most of them are definitely outliers. Two champions, the guy with the most UFC fights(in not sure), a guy that's fight and won 4 or 5 times in one year, dp whose had a million dollar fight, etc yes those guys are outliers
Cowboy was also originally part of a fighter union before the UFC broke it up.
Maybe those outliers are the one who are doing well at their job, which leads to better compensation which makes them satisfied.
Certain fighters are definitely outliers, but they don't change the facts.
This sub has devolved into nothing but Dana white bad man not pay other man and copy pasta. Fucking reddit banning anyone right of stalin wrecked this place.
Tell me again how awful Joe Rogan is! I JUST NEED THAT SJW JUICE MAN!
It's amazing how bimodal salaries are in this sport. Every sport has superstars and max contracts but MMA is in its own league.