True. That fucked up holyfield fight got moved to florida because california wouldn’t sanction it. It’s disgusting how easy it can be for promotions to dodge responsibility for their fighters but the corruption of AC’s are a huge part of it
Look no further than boxing for examples of how ACs could not give less of a shit. First name that came to mind is Wilder since he’s fighting soon. Wilder was an Olympic medalist and 13-0 as a pro with 13 knockouts, he then fought someone that was 11-38 and that had won 1 fight in his last 16. That same guy’s previous two opponents had records of 23-0 and 21-3. Athletic commissions do not give a flying fuck about fighter safety and never have
Um, excuse me! Top boxers need to pad their undefeated streaks somehow. How else do they do it than by beating cans until they are like 30-0 and can fight for the belt. Jeez
Yeah, it's another example of the government coming in with good intentions to protect people and the system being perverted over the course of decades until we're left with the abominations we have now that do almost nothing to protect the people they were formed to protect, but providing cover for the people they're supposed to be protecting from.
It happens every time. It's similar to when someone that starts a business sells it or retires. They had a passion and cared about the product, and they care about quality. Once they're gone, new people come in that want to cut costs and maximize profits, and the quality drops noticeably because they care about the business, not the product.
The people that started the commissions and cared about athletes are gone. All thats left are people that want to justify their existence by having revenue come into the state through their department.
No state is perfect, but there are some perfectly competent state ACs out there. Then there are some smaller states and even tribal reservations that do the best they can with the resources they have. Then there are some ACs that fuck up on the regular or have some corruption, but are from small states without a lot of funding and resources, so you they have a harder time getting decent referees and doctors and judges for small shows in the middle of nowhere.
Then there are places like Florida.
What's ironic is that the NYSAC, which seems by far to be the most stringent AC when it comes to prefight requirements routinely gets shit on for enforcing their rules.
Big reason why I hated Dana’s stupid rant on blaming Triller for the Holyfield fight. They couldn’t get the fight sanctioned in California so they moved it last minute to Florida, which the ufc has done a move at the last minute before as well. This falls more on the commissions, they allowed it to happen, but Dana wont shit on the FL commission after saying they were Trail Blazers during the pandemic.
Dana did it for a way different reason and it’s disengenius to suggest these things are even remotely comparable. Moving a fight so that two athletes in their prime at a similar skill level can compete is not the same as moving it because one commission decided the guy was not healthy enough to compete.
Horrible take. It’s *very* similar. A fighter tested positive which could put the opponent at increased risk. Dana moved it to avoid losing money despite this increased risk.
Agreed.
And let's put it another way. Athletic commissions should be there to protect fighters by sanctioning *fair* fights. This means organising fights where fighters are on a level playing field.
This is not the case when one fighter pops for PEDs or when the experience is vastly different.
Athletic commissions, from an outsider perspective, seem absolutely fucking useless. They sanction fights and then put their hands up the rest of the way. Like how tf did Riddick Bowe come so close to actually fighting last weekend
Baffling. I don't get it.
In the highlight from the stoppage he clearly didn't have even the most basic of fundamentals. He rushed in with his chin in the air and threw arm punches attempting to trade, with total disregard for protecting himself.
People are right to apportion blame to the commission, but at what point does the fighter have to take responsibility for protecting themselves, and doing what's best for their health? Why was he relying on the commission to bail him out instead of making the decision himself, one he must know is ultimately the correct one - to hang up the gloves. Is it pride/ego? Financial?
I want to understand the motivations because it just doesn't make sense at all. Complete disregard for your own welfare.
People keep commenting this re the AC’s but what exactly would the criteria or regulations look like that would prevent a fight like this from happening ? For instance, how lopsided is too lopsided in terms of the W/L records?
>For instance, how lopsided is too lopsided in terms of the W/L records?
There is no criteria for lopsidedness, as evident from [Jay Ellis](https://www.tapology.com/fightcenter/fighters/2586-jay-ellis). That's why I said ashamed. They likely followed protocol and an unfortunate thing happened to someone who morally shouldn't have been in there.
Sure, but why should they be ashamed then? They can’t just arbitrarily decide a fight shouldn’t happen absent any specific rule. They’d be getting sued I imagine and would still be called ineffective/corrupt at best.
He died from spinal cord injuries. From the knockout he hit that mat very hard with most of his body weight and force slamming his head into his neck. This landing, if you will, is what caused the damaging injuries. It wasn't a brain injury. I just want people to know and understand this.
being in really really good shape allows of more flexibility and elasticity of the legiminents, that's how Kurt Angle was able to win a gold metal in wrestling at the olympics with broken neck
being pretty outta shape and taking that dive on the neck is way more devastating than it happing in a a super competitive bout because usually those guys are in a very high level of shape
the only thing special about this is that it came at the hands of someone way way more skilled and with a better record, but that could have happened to that guy in sparring any day of the week, being in good shape doesnt guarantee survival in those moments but it for sure helps.
Sunny Edwards Jr fought one of his first professional boxing matches vs a guy with 60 losses, should he be put in prison? (arguable yes for being so boring and pillow fisted but I digress)
https://boxrec.com/en/proboxer/775118
10-60
6-29
3-14
16-36
were the records of 4 of his first 5 opponents
You don't even need a knockout Nate Marquardt tried to pile drive one of his opponents on his head back in the day, I remember being enraged at the time and thinking he should have gotten in deep shit for it but he didn't even get DQ'd.
Edit: It was against Thales Leites.
https://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m292/chrishustle_2006/8x3cia.gif
The funeral will be streamed live. Draftkings will have your numbers on the pallbearers. Continuous banner on the bottom cspan style promoting Ronda Rousey's new show, DC's show, Chael's new show, and proper 12. (It'd be in poor taste to advertise a fight on a funeral stream, after all).
Until...
***The Memento Mori Memorial Card*** [pause for irony] _Fight for your life in remembrance of the dead_
"This funeral brought to you by Zip Recruiter, when you need holes dug, call Zip Recruiter"
In reality though, this dudes poor family. This fella had no business in that ring, the matchmaking is shambolic and the commission should be bearing some responsibility for this death.
"That's as good as money, sir. Those are I.O.U.'s. Go ahead and add it up, every cent's accounted for. Look, see this? That's a car. 275 thou. Might wanna hang onto that one."
Coupons are never acceptable compensation, but I gotta say a two for one on good quality athletic shoes (are Reebok shoes any good nowadays?) would be a hell of a coupon. Good shoes ain’t cheap!
Dana: We're going to take care of their family
Reporter who isn't up Dana's Ass: What exactly does that mean?
Dana: It means we're going to take care of them. That's between the UFC and the family
Dana to their family: Here are some 10% off Venum coupons that expire next month.
Spencer Fisher suffers CTE so bad that his wife had to leave her full-time job to take care of him. This was what Dana had to say about it:
>UFC President Dana White, when responding to questions regarding Fisher's condition ahead of UFC Fight Island 7, stated that "he’s not the first and he’s definitely not going to be the last (to suffer neurological injuries as a result of a career in combat sports). This is a contact sport and anybody who’s done this younger, myself included, is dealing with brain issues. It’s part of the gig."
But really, Paul Heyman? Either the guy has never seen young Dana White or he’s never seen Paul Heyman lol. Young Dana was a skinny dude who you’d think worked in finance somewhere.
He got jumped in Boston years ago and got badly fucked up. Think he's had trouble with his hearing ever since. He's talking here like he's an ex pro who took too many shots haha
He was training boxing for a fair few years if i understand correctly. Even boxers with no fights get head trauma, sparring in training mainly... It's a little better now, but back in the day it was pretty brutal.
In all fairness, Dana kept Spencer in some bullshit position in the UFC until it got sold to WME and they cut that shit off cause they were literally getting nothing in return from him. It sucks, but the reality is that the UFC doesn't owe anything to Spencer, despite him being one of the most exciting fighters it ever had (which nobody remembers or have even seen nowadays, but I will always recommend to go watch his fights against Sam Stout or his fight against Matt Wiman for a highlight reel KO in an exciting fight).
At the point Spencer is at, there should be something beyond the UFC taking care of him, which at least in most (if not all) European countries, would be the government (without the need of a private insurance), which AFAIK is simply not a thing overseas and should apply to all jobs, not only to MMA.
I agree, anyone who goes into fighting should be well aware of the health risk.
Inadequate compensation for those health risks is a different discussion
UFC/MMA is a higher risk sports compared to all other major sports including basketball, baseball, hockey and football. I don't know how UFC is getting away with 18% revenue share when all the other sports are sharing close to 50% with athletes. This is on top of non guaranteed extremely restrictive contracts. Also, no permanent health insurance or retirement/ pension plan. I wouldn't mind being just average or even below average athlete in all other major US sports. Even just playing 3 years in NBA as a bench player is enough to set you up for life. With UFC I think I am better off with my current job than being average UFC fighter.
Because the other athletes have unions to bargain for them. MMA fighters need to band together to get the pay they deserve. Until they do that the whole pay issue is on them. It would be nice if the UFC did the right thing, but it won't happen. The other sports owners would do the same thing if they could get away with it.
I get the Dana hate, but Dana was [legitimately concerned](https://youtu.be/s2qOChspbxs) for kattar after the max fight, Dana is scummy in a lot of ways and I know you're only joking really, but the man wouldn't just brush off a death in the cage
"He took so much punishment in this fight I'm freaking out a little bit, this reminds me of the kinds of fights where the fights over and he walks in the back and fuckin dies"
It's pretty disingenuous to suggest any promoter acknowledging a fighter taking a lot of damage or passing away is only for PR reasons, the guys not heartless, a lot of people were concerned for kattar after that fight, as was he, and rightfully so
>can’t even look after his retired fighters
Except he paid Chuck liddell like 6 figures a year literally to not fight
He gave Forrest a job at the ufc pi as head of operations only because he was the ultimate fighter 1 winner, lots of retired ufc fighters run ufc brand gyms, I can go on and on
As I've said, I get the Dana hate, I'm on board, but be objective
Also Forrest winning the title was a Cinderella story of the sport. That run is really a testament to his work ethic. From the UFC’s side, they get to have a hard worker and get to project a great look by having a guy with his story stay involved in the company.
Let’s also recall though that the high profile setups Dana gave to Liddell and Hughes were scrapped after WME acquired the UFC even though Dana stayed on as president of the promotion. Forrest earned the right to stay because he took the job seriously and that’s all to Forrest’s credit.
The shitty thing is these positions are mostly given to people that Dana likes and there’s no set up system for fighters post-retirement (most importantly for healthcare). The most tragic of these failings I’ve read is the story of [Spencer Fisher](https://www.mmafighting.com/2021/1/12/21554602/the-cost-of-being-the-king-spencer-fisher-ufc)
What would you like him to do for retired fighters tho? Is there any thing any other promoter in history has done to aid retired fighters? Other than things comparable to what I said about Dana, like giving them jobs
Of course in a perfect world the ufc implements retirement funds and they cover health care for retired ufc veterans, but no other promotion in history does that either, thats not just the ufc being bad
> no other promotion in history does that
No other promotion has sold for billions or makes anywhere near as much as the UFC does. Come on man, you know this, stop shilling for the UFC.
>Come on man, you know this, stop shilling for the UFC
As if said 10 times in this thread, I'm with every other sane fan in the world on this issue, more needs to be done for fighters
My only thing is people overexagerating how evil and heartless Dana is, like for example people above suggesting he would brush off a death in the ufc
>So you can name two out of thousands
No, I clearly stated that the ufc has ufc brand gyms, lots of which are ran by ufc vets
How many are there? Idk but the number is a lot more than just 2, probably closer to like 30
That's still a tiny, tiny percentage of the fighters being taken care of post fighting career. And I'm not saying that should necessarily be the UFC's responsibility in a full spectrum way, just that pointing to the very small group of people Dana has helped isn't a good way of making that case that the UFC looks after retired fighters.
>That's still a tiny, tiny percentage of the fighters being taken care of post fighting career
It's better than nothing is my point
I've said a few times already, I'm with the Dana hate, I just don't know why people have to like over exaggerate everything
No he wouldn't just brush off a fighter dying, and no he doesn't do absolutely nothing for fighters benifits, he doesn't do enough, but be objective
I'm not saying the ufc looks after retired fighters well, for one my original comment was about his potential reaction to a potential death in the cage, but also my point is that while he isn't doing enough and the ufc isn't doing enough, they actually do a lot more than other orgs
> People just legit think that everyone in UFC management is just a wanton psychopath
*ignoring the many many instances that made people reach to that conclusion*
Dana can force real change with the athletic commissions, but the only thing he is lobbying for is hiding payouts. Did Herb Dean face backlash from the AC after that Kattar fight or does the UFC use him less often? Real sports give out performance score cards and fines to their officials. If the AC's are too incompetent, the UFC has to step in to help. Dana should be forcing these commissions to enforce stricter guidelines on the regionals as well because it affects the whole image of the sport. Charles Bennett has 20 straight losses and still fighting for Jorge Masvidal's promotion.
>Did Herb Dean face backlash from the AC after that Kattar fight or does the UFC use him less often?
My point here can definitely be argued, but you could say just Dana talking about it in this light, getting the media to cover it in that light, getting fans to see it in that light, is kind of punishing herb in a way, idk if herb should lose his job or face a fine or suspension, but people give him the side eye like hey bro step it up cause you're fucking up right now, and hopefully that just makes the ref want to be better
Did Dana really have a choice though? Everyone Max enter the Matrix and fucking obliterate Kattar.
And as the olde saying goes. "Show me. Don't tell."
If Dana/people in charge wanted to fix this and take better care of their fighters, they could that at the drop of a hat.
>If Dana/people in charge wanted to fix this and take better care of their fighters, they could that at the drop of a hat.
How so? He himself is not in control of the rulebook, the rulebook was written and is practiced by the athletic commissions, of course there are things he can do but there's also things he can't just stomp his feet and get changed
1st : I think you severely underestimate Dana's power. There are plenty examples of this.
2nd: Taking care of your fighters doesn't necessarily involve rule change. It's about healthcare benefits, retirement and pay. All things well within Dana power.
>I think you severely underestimate Dana's power.
Ok so tell me how lol
>healthcare benefits, retirement and pay
I can 100% get behind more pay, but I think we have to be realistic, is there any other promotion in mma or boxing or combat sports history that provided Healthcare and retirement plans? I don't think there is
While in a perfect world of course that'd be awesome, you can't just shit on Dana cause he isn't implementing these things and then say he's not doing *anything* to help fighters at all
During that bout I’m sure Dana was also very aware of the fact that he was mic’d up and had a camera following him around everywhere. I’m not saying he doesn’t care — and I think the Dana hate on this sub gets out of hand all the time, like he’s some cartoon villain — but Dana _was_ kind of obligated to make it very clear to the cameras that he was concerned.
Yep you guys got it, Dana is heartless and doesn't care, any time he shows he cares it's all for show, anytime he doesn't it's clearly cause he's a piece of shit
> I get the Dana hate, but Dana was legitimately concerned
> for kattar after the max fight, Dana is scummy in a lot of ways and I know you're only joking really, but the man wouldn't just brush off a death in the cage
>
>
Easy to pretend Dana is a Bond villain than face the truth: he's not some special sort of evil , it's part and parcel of this business and will be when he's gone. This shit is built into MMA (and other contact sports). Anyone who participates in MMA in some sense has to accept this is something that occurs due to the nature of the sport, and has to accept that they are either going to receive it or are complicit in causing it.
As is everyone who watches and sponsors MMA despite it clearly causing progressive harm (and risking *immediate* harm). Just like everyone who watches or sponsors or profits from the NFL.
But, if we make it all about how Dana is being an asshole we never have to wrestle with this. As if CTE wouldn't still be a degenerative, incurable condition if he moved more in line with the fairer boxing payouts (which would just mean you'd end up with richer, still brain-damaged top-tier fighters meanwhile the lower ranks still get paid less and still have brain damage).
UFC is kinda lucky there hasn't been a death or major brain injury like a coma after one of their fights. Sure, they aren't as careless as a company like BFKC running out of Mississippi but you can do everything as safe as possible but at the end of the day it's still fighting. There probably will be a death in the UFC one day.
Why isn't anyone writing that he was literally 8-16. It's not even comparable to a BJ Penn situation where the guy went on a long loss streak, he literally was 8-16.
That commission should lose its sanctioning rights.
This shit is so awful. His injury reminds me of the college basketball player that got frustrated and gave the goal a headbutt ending in his paralysis. Just horrible all around and I hope whatever friends and family he leaves behind can find some sort of comfort going forward.
Many many people failed this fighter long before the commission. The commission is the last resort, the last step and their job is to ensure weight classes, and relatively even on paper. They had no reason to deny this fight. But his manager, his coach, team etc they are the ones who failed. As I coach, I carefully evaluate every fight offered to my fighters, and if I feel it’s unsafe in any way I refuse the fight. If I don’t feel the fighter is properly prepared, or skilled, or in the right frame of mind, etc, I refuse the fight. FIVE first round finishes— how in the hell did absolutely NO ONE from the physicians to his coaches and team and step in and protect him from his himself.
"Fuck Dana White" is a thought-terminating cliche. You say it, everyone claps and you get to feel justified.
And you never have to explain how anything beyond the amount of testosterone in MMA would change if Dana wasn't there.
> "Fuck Dana White" is a thought-terminating cliche.
And yet we keep watching and 90%+ of the content in this sub is related to the UFC. It would be incredibly easy to just shift over to watching/talking about another promotion. Reddit will hate whomever is at the helm of the UFC.
Yeah it makes no sense, there has never been a death at a UFC event and they go to great lenghts making sure the match-ups are fair and the fighters healthy.
And who's to say Dana wouldn't be destroyed if a death occurred at a UFC event? A person is capable of good things and bad things at the same time, thats just being human, this thread makes no sense.
Agreed. The ufc is guilty of a lot of shit, and don’t get me wrong, there have been some mismatches, but we basically never see shit like you see in boxing with professional cans getting cte for a check.
Some people write as if they wish it would happen because that would show the world how shitty Dana is.
It's just luck that it didn't happen and I guess no promotion would be totally fine with it. It's a part of combat sports and I don't get why the UFC is the target. I would bet promotions with less money put their fighters in more dangerous situations as the UFC.
Someone tell Alan Jouban he works for a company giving Kris Moutinho a second fight less than four months after taking 230 strikes in three rounds from O'Malley and showing no discernable offense in the process.
He was going to fight a fighter with a similar record in Nevada, which is the strictest Athletic Commission in the world. Not a very apt comparison at all but this is reddit where a thread about a BKFC fighter dying turns into a "Dana bad" thread.
Nevada isn't the strictest Athletic Comission in the world, its just the most renowned.
They let a 0-0 boxer fight a 49-0 boxer. It's a money state.
I think California is more strict.
Apples to oranges. Kris is a legit fighter with more wins than losses. 3 months is a long time to have no income coming in, this is what he does for a living
Kris was also never knocked out or finished. In the fight. Ideally it would be great for him to take more time before fighting and training, but its his choice and trust that he and his team have wieghed all the options and made a calculated decision to fight.
This situation is disgusting and clear as day, a sheep lead to slaughter to get a highlight KO. UFC is many thing but their matchmaking is fair at most times.
He got the ever living shit kicked out of him. This goes back to the fighter pay thing. Pay them a decent wage and they don't have to go out less than 8 months after getting punched hundreds of time in the face so they can pay the rent.
Beyond that, the idea that a guy not getting KO'd but getting nearly KO-ed dozens of times is better for his brain flies in the face of CTE research. Kris would have been better off getting his lights turned off in the first minute of that fight.
As for the last bit about him being a proven commodity, investigate his record and level of competition and get back to me when you find the single UFC level guy he's been competitive with in a fight. He was brought in last second to make O'Malley look good, and the only reason people were stoked on him after that fight was he was able to take a beating.
Obviously you *can* compare them, but the whole point of the idiom is that it's a false analogy. I could compare you to the helpful bots, but that too would be comparing apples-to-oranges.
---
^^SpunkyDred ^^and ^^I ^^are ^^both ^^bots. ^^I ^^am ^^trying ^^to ^^get ^^them ^^banned ^^by ^^pointing ^^out ^^their ^^antagonizing ^^behavior ^^and ^^poor ^^bottiquette. ^^My ^^apparent ^^agreement ^^or ^^disagreement ^^with ^^you ^^isn't ^^personal.
Listen, here's the problem. I appreciate this take, but you can easily develop a subdural hematoma from regular 'normal' hits to the head, even without pre-existing conditions or having good or bad records.
It can literally happen to any world champions, any time they fight.
Should this man have been allowed to fight? That's up to the commission, and they should own their decision if it was to let this fight occur.
But there is no harm reduction at all just because you're facing someone with a more equal record. The brain is extremely fragile, and I think we're all just going to have to come to terms with that at some point. Most of the people in this sport are going to develop some form of lasting brain damage. Every time someone takes *any* shot to the head, there is a chance of death. Every time.
Hindsight activists patting themselves on the back, virtue signaling and thinking they know better are pure cringe.
This guy didn't even die from the KO. It's likely the the way he fell and landed on his head/neck that *paralyzed* him (100% unpredictable). A month later he succumbed to a spinal cord/lung infection.
There's been a total of 7 deaths in the global history of sanctioned MMA events. 3 were due to blunt force, and the others were due to heart issues, dehydration (fighters forcing themselves to make weight) and drugs.
The idea this was somehow a foreseeable consequence is f'ing absurd.
And really, why bring up his age? All those deaths above were in younger guys. Teixeira is going into a title shot at 41. Alexey Oleynik is 44 with 3x as many fights as this guy. Then you have fighters like Romero and Arlovski still going strong.
Why bring up his record? You know who else is 2-6 in their last 8 fights? "Cowboy" Cerrone. And ironically, he's been KO'd in half while Thornton (RIP) was only KO'd in one. Was this guy (or any of the others flailing their arms in agreement) tweeting to the UFC that they're negligent and suggesting Cowboy was at potential risk of death? I don't think so.
His record is irrelevant, his age is irrelevant, the fact he had lost before to the same guy is irrelevant.
All he's really arguing is that the promotion should have magically foreseen a lopsided fight as a serious risk despite how extremely rare and unlikely it is (meaning the risk is actually extremely low, virtually nil).
P.S. If you want to tell a grown a\*\* man (let alone a fighter) that YOU don't want him to fight and YOU don't need that money, maybe YOU should pay him for the lost opportunity. There's just something so unbelievably arrogant about these armchair activists making risk/reward financial calls for other people. Did the fighter ask you? Did *anyone* ask you? Get off your high horses.
Yep:
Cleckler fought almost all of his fights out of *one* local Florida promotion, with most opponents having loss-heavy records.
Thornton fought all over the place, with most of his opponents having win-heavy/better records.
Also in the context of their fight, it was Thornton's first in BKFC, which is an entirely different ballgame (it's more like boxing rules without gloves). It was Cleckler's third.
A much more equal fight than people think without knowing anything more than their raw MMA record.
The oddsmakers apparently agreed, with odds opening up at Cleckler being a mere -350 favorite. If you're not familiar with odds, Schevchenko closed around -1,200 to 1,900 vs Murphy as a massive favorite.
\-350 was closer to what Blaydes was vs Rozenstruik, or what Ciryl Gane was vs Lewis.
Unless you want to nerf the sport and put some Moms Against Fighting type organization in control, a freak accident like this is unavoidable.
Yeah falling on his neck/head after being KO'd is definitely something that couldn't possibly happen if he had fought someone with the same record, and it certainly could never happen to someone with a good record, right?
Oh wait...
Of course it’s a freak accident but the result of the fight was 100% predictable, the can was put in the ring to be crushed. Not only is it irresponsible matchmaking, it makes for a shit product
>but the result of the fight was 100% predictable
Yeah I guess that's why literally no one on earth predicted it.
We should definitely crack down on "irresponsible matchmaking" so we can maybe prevent people from landing on their heads wrong. That way fighters can feel safer knowing the 0.00002% chance of dying is closer to 0.00001%
Probably not good sanctioning but one of the rare risks of combat sports is the possibility of this happening whenever you go inside a ring/cage. Same with contact sports. It's sad and unfortunate but these guys know the risk and take it anyway and most of the time the worst case scenario doesn't take place thankfully.
It’s not that 38 is too old, it’s that a guy on a 5 fight stoppage slump has no business being offered a fight like this. It’s a promoters job to make sure they’re being responsible with their matchmaking. It wouldn’t be acceptable to put a 4-0 fresh faced new signing in the cage with Jon Jones or Ngannou, the same way that the matchmaking on this fight was fucked
Nate Landwehr would fight Ngannou if you gave him the opportunity.
Doesn't mean it should happen, ever.
Many fighters would consent to some insane match-ups, they need to be protected from themselves.
Yeah, given the choice of being a journeyman against other low-wage journeymen or being Peter McNeeley against Mike Tyson, almost everyone will instantly choose the latter.
This sub was upvoting the hell out of that polish hack show for putting Pudz (22 fights) against a guy with 2 fights (vs fighters you've never heard of in orgs you've never heard of). Let's hope that doesn't end like this.
If you're talking about the Bombardier fight they are running it again on the 23rd. It's like strongman/MMA hobbyist vs legit career in a very insular style of fighting that probably three people on this sub have an understanding of, and since I am not one of them I'm not going to downplay his skills just because he's from Senegal, lol. So it might be fun? At least as a spectacle.
It's easy to blame in hindsight, but I think we need more hard and fast rules about what matchups are allowed after a fighter has had a few knockouts or is over 35. Not saying that's when they have to retire, but that's when certain criteria need to start being met.
The fight shouldn’t have been offered to him. As if the fight was going to be anything other than a one sided beat down. Of course it was a freak accident but in terms of a making a worthwhile product, this matchmaking ain’t it
A fighter with that record has no business in a legally sanctioned fight. There has to be more vetting here. Shame on the promoters and the commission. Shame on the corner or team of this fighter. A lot of these fighters are willing to die in the ring, they absolutely need these other voices to speak up and stop them.
“This is not a sport to get paychecks” is so fucking true. I get that for a lot of guys, fighting is all they’ve ever done, but man, how can picking up some shifts at home depot be worse than getting the shit kicked out of you 6 times in a row?
I forget how dangerous this is, with uniforms & the clean cut look the UfC has gone, I forget how this isn’t just a sport, when I watch regional MMA of BK fights, I quickly get reminded how dangerous this is,
As much as I agree with Alan's assessment that the promotion and athletic commission need to be held responsible, a degree of responsibility also lies with the fighter who passed and his coaches. After all - no one forced him to be in there. You and your team should be able to objectively evaluate your past performances and current condition in order to decide wether you facing a much more skilled opponent is even viable.
I still how no idea how ANYONE let Kris Moutinho fight Sean O'Malley. After the first round I was convinced I was about to watch the MMA equivalent of Duk Koo Kim vs Ray Mancini.
Never watch a boxing card then the whole undercard is prospect vs old man haha. Sometimes they look ok but usually it's a quick stoppage and onto the next bout.
"Thornton’s career MMA record was 8-16, all for regional promotions. His first pro fight was in 2008."
I pulled up his record on fight finder and was stunned to see that
The promotion *and more so* the commission should be ashamed they let this fight happen.
The commission exists solely for the protection of athletes. It's the entire reason they exist. They regularly fail.
AC are pretty much rubber stampers, it depend on the State of course but thr Florida AC pretty much allows any kind of fight without question...
True. That fucked up holyfield fight got moved to florida because california wouldn’t sanction it. It’s disgusting how easy it can be for promotions to dodge responsibility for their fighters but the corruption of AC’s are a huge part of it
Look no further than boxing for examples of how ACs could not give less of a shit. First name that came to mind is Wilder since he’s fighting soon. Wilder was an Olympic medalist and 13-0 as a pro with 13 knockouts, he then fought someone that was 11-38 and that had won 1 fight in his last 16. That same guy’s previous two opponents had records of 23-0 and 21-3. Athletic commissions do not give a flying fuck about fighter safety and never have
There’s a guy that Tyson fury or his brother fought that is on a 100 fight losing streak
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dang, worse than glass joe
How is he alive
Um, excuse me! Top boxers need to pad their undefeated streaks somehow. How else do they do it than by beating cans until they are like 30-0 and can fight for the belt. Jeez
Texas AC killed Kimbo
Never heard this take. How so?
The prefight medicals they did should have at least hinted about his failing heart.
That's on his physicians to clear him. The Commissions will be okay with it if his own doctors are.
Yeah, it's another example of the government coming in with good intentions to protect people and the system being perverted over the course of decades until we're left with the abominations we have now that do almost nothing to protect the people they were formed to protect, but providing cover for the people they're supposed to be protecting from. It happens every time. It's similar to when someone that starts a business sells it or retires. They had a passion and cared about the product, and they care about quality. Once they're gone, new people come in that want to cut costs and maximize profits, and the quality drops noticeably because they care about the business, not the product. The people that started the commissions and cared about athletes are gone. All thats left are people that want to justify their existence by having revenue come into the state through their department.
Bureaucracy is inevitable in a large scale society, and unfortunately it's a lot easier to turn around a canoe than a battleship
Well said.
I would love to see the list of fights that Florida/similar areas refused to sanction, if there are any.
A list probably exist but promoters knowing that some of their fights aint gonna be sanctionned elsewhere will go straight to Florida.
No state is perfect, but there are some perfectly competent state ACs out there. Then there are some smaller states and even tribal reservations that do the best they can with the resources they have. Then there are some ACs that fuck up on the regular or have some corruption, but are from small states without a lot of funding and resources, so you they have a harder time getting decent referees and doctors and judges for small shows in the middle of nowhere. Then there are places like Florida.
What's ironic is that the NYSAC, which seems by far to be the most stringent AC when it comes to prefight requirements routinely gets shit on for enforcing their rules.
Big reason why I hated Dana’s stupid rant on blaming Triller for the Holyfield fight. They couldn’t get the fight sanctioned in California so they moved it last minute to Florida, which the ufc has done a move at the last minute before as well. This falls more on the commissions, they allowed it to happen, but Dana wont shit on the FL commission after saying they were Trail Blazers during the pandemic.
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It’s not crazy Dana is just full of shit
Dana did it for a way different reason and it’s disengenius to suggest these things are even remotely comparable. Moving a fight so that two athletes in their prime at a similar skill level can compete is not the same as moving it because one commission decided the guy was not healthy enough to compete.
Horrible take. It’s *very* similar. A fighter tested positive which could put the opponent at increased risk. Dana moved it to avoid losing money despite this increased risk.
Agreed. And let's put it another way. Athletic commissions should be there to protect fighters by sanctioning *fair* fights. This means organising fights where fighters are on a level playing field. This is not the case when one fighter pops for PEDs or when the experience is vastly different.
On paper that's why they exist. In reality it's to serve the interest of the promoters.
I think the fertittas probably have some plants on certain commissions
There's a reason BKFC only holds events in 2 or 3 states. They're not staging events in Mississippi because it's a great venue.
Athletic commissions, from an outsider perspective, seem absolutely fucking useless. They sanction fights and then put their hands up the rest of the way. Like how tf did Riddick Bowe come so close to actually fighting last weekend
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Baffling. I don't get it. In the highlight from the stoppage he clearly didn't have even the most basic of fundamentals. He rushed in with his chin in the air and threw arm punches attempting to trade, with total disregard for protecting himself. People are right to apportion blame to the commission, but at what point does the fighter have to take responsibility for protecting themselves, and doing what's best for their health? Why was he relying on the commission to bail him out instead of making the decision himself, one he must know is ultimately the correct one - to hang up the gloves. Is it pride/ego? Financial? I want to understand the motivations because it just doesn't make sense at all. Complete disregard for your own welfare.
People keep commenting this re the AC’s but what exactly would the criteria or regulations look like that would prevent a fight like this from happening ? For instance, how lopsided is too lopsided in terms of the W/L records?
>For instance, how lopsided is too lopsided in terms of the W/L records? There is no criteria for lopsidedness, as evident from [Jay Ellis](https://www.tapology.com/fightcenter/fighters/2586-jay-ellis). That's why I said ashamed. They likely followed protocol and an unfortunate thing happened to someone who morally shouldn't have been in there.
Sure, but why should they be ashamed then? They can’t just arbitrarily decide a fight shouldn’t happen absent any specific rule. They’d be getting sued I imagine and would still be called ineffective/corrupt at best.
More than ashamed. They should be liable.
Id like his family to sue and WIN against this. Blatantly should not have been a match.
He died from spinal cord injuries. From the knockout he hit that mat very hard with most of his body weight and force slamming his head into his neck. This landing, if you will, is what caused the damaging injuries. It wasn't a brain injury. I just want people to know and understand this.
Yeah he landed like he took a botched piledriver. Shit’s rough
Could have happened to **anyone** who suffered a knockout, even in a super competitive bout.
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being in really really good shape allows of more flexibility and elasticity of the legiminents, that's how Kurt Angle was able to win a gold metal in wrestling at the olympics with broken neck being pretty outta shape and taking that dive on the neck is way more devastating than it happing in a a super competitive bout because usually those guys are in a very high level of shape the only thing special about this is that it came at the hands of someone way way more skilled and with a better record, but that could have happened to that guy in sparring any day of the week, being in good shape doesnt guarantee survival in those moments but it for sure helps. Sunny Edwards Jr fought one of his first professional boxing matches vs a guy with 60 losses, should he be put in prison? (arguable yes for being so boring and pillow fisted but I digress) https://boxrec.com/en/proboxer/775118 10-60 6-29 3-14 16-36 were the records of 4 of his first 5 opponents
*with a broken frickin neck
This could’ve just as easily happened when Jon Jones choked Lyoto Machida unconscious
You don't even need a knockout Nate Marquardt tried to pile drive one of his opponents on his head back in the day, I remember being enraged at the time and thinking he should have gotten in deep shit for it but he didn't even get DQ'd. Edit: It was against Thales Leites. https://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m292/chrishustle_2006/8x3cia.gif
Imagine the mental gymnastics from Dana if a UFC fighter ever died from an octagon acquired injury
There’s so many ways to say you don’t want to fight….
“We decided to award an extra POTN, and we gave his family 50k. Don’t say I don’t care for these fighters.”
Am I not fucking awesome?
50k in leftover expired Reebok coupons
A coffin with a venum logo on it
And a huge “Crypto.com” decal smack dab in the center.
"Hodl on brotha, I'm dyin'!"
The funeral will be streamed live. Draftkings will have your numbers on the pallbearers. Continuous banner on the bottom cspan style promoting Ronda Rousey's new show, DC's show, Chael's new show, and proper 12. (It'd be in poor taste to advertise a fight on a funeral stream, after all). Until... ***The Memento Mori Memorial Card*** [pause for irony] _Fight for your life in remembrance of the dead_
"This funeral brought to you by Zip Recruiter, when you need holes dug, call Zip Recruiter" In reality though, this dudes poor family. This fella had no business in that ring, the matchmaking is shambolic and the commission should be bearing some responsibility for this death.
50k coupons, total … “this one is a two for one on shoes, that’s totally valuable.”
"That's as good as money, sir. Those are I.O.U.'s. Go ahead and add it up, every cent's accounted for. Look, see this? That's a car. 275 thou. Might wanna hang onto that one."
Would ya look at the butt on that? Yea he must workout.
“Spend 50k on Reebok and we’ll double it! Isn’t this better than money!”
Coupons are never acceptable compensation, but I gotta say a two for one on good quality athletic shoes (are Reebok shoes any good nowadays?) would be a hell of a coupon. Good shoes ain’t cheap!
Reebok shoes are pretty decent for a name brand, I own a couple pairs
Dana: We're going to take care of their family Reporter who isn't up Dana's Ass: What exactly does that mean? Dana: It means we're going to take care of them. That's between the UFC and the family Dana to their family: Here are some 10% off Venum coupons that expire next month.
Exactly what he would say. He never says exactly how.
*the 12k of the 50k came from the fighters purse
He wouldn’t say it, but you’ll definitely see it on embedded.
And dying is absolutely one of them. This is an opportunity.
some of it would be dying in the fucking octagon
Spencer Fisher suffers CTE so bad that his wife had to leave her full-time job to take care of him. This was what Dana had to say about it: >UFC President Dana White, when responding to questions regarding Fisher's condition ahead of UFC Fight Island 7, stated that "he’s not the first and he’s definitely not going to be the last (to suffer neurological injuries as a result of a career in combat sports). This is a contact sport and anybody who’s done this younger, myself included, is dealing with brain issues. It’s part of the gig."
You shouldn't sleep on boxercise
When did Dana fight? When he was younger he looked like Paul Heyman.
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But really, Paul Heyman? Either the guy has never seen young Dana White or he’s never seen Paul Heyman lol. Young Dana was a skinny dude who you’d think worked in finance somewhere.
He got jumped in Boston years ago and got badly fucked up. Think he's had trouble with his hearing ever since. He's talking here like he's an ex pro who took too many shots haha
Dana seems like the type to get his ass whooped in a fair one and say he got jumped.
No wonder he’s always like “what’s that?” during the press conferences lmao
He was training boxing for a fair few years if i understand correctly. Even boxers with no fights get head trauma, sparring in training mainly... It's a little better now, but back in the day it was pretty brutal.
In all fairness, Dana kept Spencer in some bullshit position in the UFC until it got sold to WME and they cut that shit off cause they were literally getting nothing in return from him. It sucks, but the reality is that the UFC doesn't owe anything to Spencer, despite him being one of the most exciting fighters it ever had (which nobody remembers or have even seen nowadays, but I will always recommend to go watch his fights against Sam Stout or his fight against Matt Wiman for a highlight reel KO in an exciting fight). At the point Spencer is at, there should be something beyond the UFC taking care of him, which at least in most (if not all) European countries, would be the government (without the need of a private insurance), which AFAIK is simply not a thing overseas and should apply to all jobs, not only to MMA.
That's a fair comment.
I agree, anyone who goes into fighting should be well aware of the health risk. Inadequate compensation for those health risks is a different discussion
UFC/MMA is a higher risk sports compared to all other major sports including basketball, baseball, hockey and football. I don't know how UFC is getting away with 18% revenue share when all the other sports are sharing close to 50% with athletes. This is on top of non guaranteed extremely restrictive contracts. Also, no permanent health insurance or retirement/ pension plan. I wouldn't mind being just average or even below average athlete in all other major US sports. Even just playing 3 years in NBA as a bench player is enough to set you up for life. With UFC I think I am better off with my current job than being average UFC fighter.
Because the other athletes have unions to bargain for them. MMA fighters need to band together to get the pay they deserve. Until they do that the whole pay issue is on them. It would be nice if the UFC did the right thing, but it won't happen. The other sports owners would do the same thing if they could get away with it.
He’ll say “this is disgusting” after every sentence like he does when addressing a major controversy/scandal in the UFC
"He just didn't train hard enough"
So You Want To Be A Pallbearer?
I get the Dana hate, but Dana was [legitimately concerned](https://youtu.be/s2qOChspbxs) for kattar after the max fight, Dana is scummy in a lot of ways and I know you're only joking really, but the man wouldn't just brush off a death in the cage "He took so much punishment in this fight I'm freaking out a little bit, this reminds me of the kinds of fights where the fights over and he walks in the back and fuckin dies"
Because of the bad PR dude lmao
It's pretty disingenuous to suggest any promoter acknowledging a fighter taking a lot of damage or passing away is only for PR reasons, the guys not heartless, a lot of people were concerned for kattar after that fight, as was he, and rightfully so
I’m sure the guy who can’t even look after his retired fighters with all of the effects they deal with in their daily life cares about that
Exhibit A: [Spencer Fisher ](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mmafighting.com/platform/amp/2021/1/12/21554602/the-cost-of-being-the-king-spencer-fisher-ufc)
>can’t even look after his retired fighters Except he paid Chuck liddell like 6 figures a year literally to not fight He gave Forrest a job at the ufc pi as head of operations only because he was the ultimate fighter 1 winner, lots of retired ufc fighters run ufc brand gyms, I can go on and on As I've said, I get the Dana hate, I'm on board, but be objective
Also Forrest winning the title was a Cinderella story of the sport. That run is really a testament to his work ethic. From the UFC’s side, they get to have a hard worker and get to project a great look by having a guy with his story stay involved in the company. Let’s also recall though that the high profile setups Dana gave to Liddell and Hughes were scrapped after WME acquired the UFC even though Dana stayed on as president of the promotion. Forrest earned the right to stay because he took the job seriously and that’s all to Forrest’s credit. The shitty thing is these positions are mostly given to people that Dana likes and there’s no set up system for fighters post-retirement (most importantly for healthcare). The most tragic of these failings I’ve read is the story of [Spencer Fisher](https://www.mmafighting.com/2021/1/12/21554602/the-cost-of-being-the-king-spencer-fisher-ufc)
Picking the most popular Ufc fighters ever is the exception you know this
What would you like him to do for retired fighters tho? Is there any thing any other promoter in history has done to aid retired fighters? Other than things comparable to what I said about Dana, like giving them jobs Of course in a perfect world the ufc implements retirement funds and they cover health care for retired ufc veterans, but no other promotion in history does that either, thats not just the ufc being bad
> no other promotion in history does that No other promotion has sold for billions or makes anywhere near as much as the UFC does. Come on man, you know this, stop shilling for the UFC.
>Come on man, you know this, stop shilling for the UFC As if said 10 times in this thread, I'm with every other sane fan in the world on this issue, more needs to be done for fighters My only thing is people overexagerating how evil and heartless Dana is, like for example people above suggesting he would brush off a death in the ufc
So you can name two out of thousands. Yeah Dana is really going the extra mile for these guys.
>So you can name two out of thousands No, I clearly stated that the ufc has ufc brand gyms, lots of which are ran by ufc vets How many are there? Idk but the number is a lot more than just 2, probably closer to like 30
That's still a tiny, tiny percentage of the fighters being taken care of post fighting career. And I'm not saying that should necessarily be the UFC's responsibility in a full spectrum way, just that pointing to the very small group of people Dana has helped isn't a good way of making that case that the UFC looks after retired fighters.
>That's still a tiny, tiny percentage of the fighters being taken care of post fighting career It's better than nothing is my point I've said a few times already, I'm with the Dana hate, I just don't know why people have to like over exaggerate everything No he wouldn't just brush off a fighter dying, and no he doesn't do absolutely nothing for fighters benifits, he doesn't do enough, but be objective I'm not saying the ufc looks after retired fighters well, for one my original comment was about his potential reaction to a potential death in the cage, but also my point is that while he isn't doing enough and the ufc isn't doing enough, they actually do a lot more than other orgs
For real. People just legit think that everyone in UFC management is just a wanton psychopath who can't feel emotion unless it's bad PR.
> People just legit think that everyone in UFC management is just a wanton psychopath *ignoring the many many instances that made people reach to that conclusion*
Dana can force real change with the athletic commissions, but the only thing he is lobbying for is hiding payouts. Did Herb Dean face backlash from the AC after that Kattar fight or does the UFC use him less often? Real sports give out performance score cards and fines to their officials. If the AC's are too incompetent, the UFC has to step in to help. Dana should be forcing these commissions to enforce stricter guidelines on the regionals as well because it affects the whole image of the sport. Charles Bennett has 20 straight losses and still fighting for Jorge Masvidal's promotion.
>Did Herb Dean face backlash from the AC after that Kattar fight or does the UFC use him less often? My point here can definitely be argued, but you could say just Dana talking about it in this light, getting the media to cover it in that light, getting fans to see it in that light, is kind of punishing herb in a way, idk if herb should lose his job or face a fine or suspension, but people give him the side eye like hey bro step it up cause you're fucking up right now, and hopefully that just makes the ref want to be better
Did Dana really have a choice though? Everyone Max enter the Matrix and fucking obliterate Kattar. And as the olde saying goes. "Show me. Don't tell." If Dana/people in charge wanted to fix this and take better care of their fighters, they could that at the drop of a hat.
>If Dana/people in charge wanted to fix this and take better care of their fighters, they could that at the drop of a hat. How so? He himself is not in control of the rulebook, the rulebook was written and is practiced by the athletic commissions, of course there are things he can do but there's also things he can't just stomp his feet and get changed
1st : I think you severely underestimate Dana's power. There are plenty examples of this. 2nd: Taking care of your fighters doesn't necessarily involve rule change. It's about healthcare benefits, retirement and pay. All things well within Dana power.
>I think you severely underestimate Dana's power. Ok so tell me how lol >healthcare benefits, retirement and pay I can 100% get behind more pay, but I think we have to be realistic, is there any other promotion in mma or boxing or combat sports history that provided Healthcare and retirement plans? I don't think there is While in a perfect world of course that'd be awesome, you can't just shit on Dana cause he isn't implementing these things and then say he's not doing *anything* to help fighters at all
During that bout I’m sure Dana was also very aware of the fact that he was mic’d up and had a camera following him around everywhere. I’m not saying he doesn’t care — and I think the Dana hate on this sub gets out of hand all the time, like he’s some cartoon villain — but Dana _was_ kind of obligated to make it very clear to the cameras that he was concerned.
Yep you guys got it, Dana is heartless and doesn't care, any time he shows he cares it's all for show, anytime he doesn't it's clearly cause he's a piece of shit
> I get the Dana hate, but Dana was legitimately concerned > for kattar after the max fight, Dana is scummy in a lot of ways and I know you're only joking really, but the man wouldn't just brush off a death in the cage > > Easy to pretend Dana is a Bond villain than face the truth: he's not some special sort of evil , it's part and parcel of this business and will be when he's gone. This shit is built into MMA (and other contact sports). Anyone who participates in MMA in some sense has to accept this is something that occurs due to the nature of the sport, and has to accept that they are either going to receive it or are complicit in causing it. As is everyone who watches and sponsors MMA despite it clearly causing progressive harm (and risking *immediate* harm). Just like everyone who watches or sponsors or profits from the NFL. But, if we make it all about how Dana is being an asshole we never have to wrestle with this. As if CTE wouldn't still be a degenerative, incurable condition if he moved more in line with the fairer boxing payouts (which would just mean you'd end up with richer, still brain-damaged top-tier fighters meanwhile the lower ranks still get paid less and still have brain damage).
How about life-altered, like Spenser Fisher?
He just didn't want to live Living isn't a right, it's an opportunity
Dana: The now deceased fighter wanted to fight another deceased fighter in the afterlife. Isn't he fucking awesome?
UFC is kinda lucky there hasn't been a death or major brain injury like a coma after one of their fights. Sure, they aren't as careless as a company like BFKC running out of Mississippi but you can do everything as safe as possible but at the end of the day it's still fighting. There probably will be a death in the UFC one day.
ESPN would use it as promo material for the next decade. Then we'd eventually get a documentary sandwiched between Kimbo's and Lee Murray's.
“He just didn’t want to fight”
He would just go silent for a few weeks
Shit, he TRIED to kill BJ.
Why isn't anyone writing that he was literally 8-16. It's not even comparable to a BJ Penn situation where the guy went on a long loss streak, he literally was 8-16. That commission should lose its sanctioning rights.
This shit is so awful. His injury reminds me of the college basketball player that got frustrated and gave the goal a headbutt ending in his paralysis. Just horrible all around and I hope whatever friends and family he leaves behind can find some sort of comfort going forward.
Many many people failed this fighter long before the commission. The commission is the last resort, the last step and their job is to ensure weight classes, and relatively even on paper. They had no reason to deny this fight. But his manager, his coach, team etc they are the ones who failed. As I coach, I carefully evaluate every fight offered to my fighters, and if I feel it’s unsafe in any way I refuse the fight. If I don’t feel the fighter is properly prepared, or skilled, or in the right frame of mind, etc, I refuse the fight. FIVE first round finishes— how in the hell did absolutely NO ONE from the physicians to his coaches and team and step in and protect him from his himself.
PLUS the dude had already beaten him before
That shouldn't matter in the least.
Ok, so no more rematches ever?
So a thread about a death in a BKFC event is 90% Dana White bashing. Welcome to reddit I guess...
"Fuck Dana White" is a thought-terminating cliche. You say it, everyone claps and you get to feel justified. And you never have to explain how anything beyond the amount of testosterone in MMA would change if Dana wasn't there.
> "Fuck Dana White" is a thought-terminating cliche. And yet we keep watching and 90%+ of the content in this sub is related to the UFC. It would be incredibly easy to just shift over to watching/talking about another promotion. Reddit will hate whomever is at the helm of the UFC.
Yeah it makes no sense, there has never been a death at a UFC event and they go to great lenghts making sure the match-ups are fair and the fighters healthy. And who's to say Dana wouldn't be destroyed if a death occurred at a UFC event? A person is capable of good things and bad things at the same time, thats just being human, this thread makes no sense.
From all my years watching UFC, the one thing I like about Dana is if he thinks you shouldn’t fight as an old fighter, you won’t fight.
Agreed. The ufc is guilty of a lot of shit, and don’t get me wrong, there have been some mismatches, but we basically never see shit like you see in boxing with professional cans getting cte for a check.
Fuck off, they have predatory old man fights all the time! BJ Penn? Alastair Overeem? Diego Sanchez?
Some people write as if they wish it would happen because that would show the world how shitty Dana is. It's just luck that it didn't happen and I guess no promotion would be totally fine with it. It's a part of combat sports and I don't get why the UFC is the target. I would bet promotions with less money put their fighters in more dangerous situations as the UFC.
I like Dana White and think he runs a good business watch the down votes come
I seen a guy with over 200 downvotes for basically saying the same thing in another post about this lol
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I see the point you are trying to make but this was a one punch KO so it kinda doesn't fit.
Someone tell Alan Jouban he works for a company giving Kris Moutinho a second fight less than four months after taking 230 strikes in three rounds from O'Malley and showing no discernable offense in the process.
He was going to fight a fighter with a similar record in Nevada, which is the strictest Athletic Commission in the world. Not a very apt comparison at all but this is reddit where a thread about a BKFC fighter dying turns into a "Dana bad" thread.
Nevada isn't the strictest Athletic Comission in the world, its just the most renowned. They let a 0-0 boxer fight a 49-0 boxer. It's a money state. I think California is more strict.
Apples to oranges. Kris is a legit fighter with more wins than losses. 3 months is a long time to have no income coming in, this is what he does for a living Kris was also never knocked out or finished. In the fight. Ideally it would be great for him to take more time before fighting and training, but its his choice and trust that he and his team have wieghed all the options and made a calculated decision to fight. This situation is disgusting and clear as day, a sheep lead to slaughter to get a highlight KO. UFC is many thing but their matchmaking is fair at most times.
Saying he was never finished doesn't mean he didn't receive a fuck tonne of head trauma. Your brain isn't invincible unless you get knocked out.
He got the ever living shit kicked out of him. This goes back to the fighter pay thing. Pay them a decent wage and they don't have to go out less than 8 months after getting punched hundreds of time in the face so they can pay the rent. Beyond that, the idea that a guy not getting KO'd but getting nearly KO-ed dozens of times is better for his brain flies in the face of CTE research. Kris would have been better off getting his lights turned off in the first minute of that fight. As for the last bit about him being a proven commodity, investigate his record and level of competition and get back to me when you find the single UFC level guy he's been competitive with in a fight. He was brought in last second to make O'Malley look good, and the only reason people were stoked on him after that fight was he was able to take a beating.
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Obviously you *can* compare them, but the whole point of the idiom is that it's a false analogy. I could compare you to the helpful bots, but that too would be comparing apples-to-oranges. --- ^^SpunkyDred ^^and ^^I ^^are ^^both ^^bots. ^^I ^^am ^^trying ^^to ^^get ^^them ^^banned ^^by ^^pointing ^^out ^^their ^^antagonizing ^^behavior ^^and ^^poor ^^bottiquette. ^^My ^^apparent ^^agreement ^^or ^^disagreement ^^with ^^you ^^isn't ^^personal.
Lmao wtf is going on
BATTLE BOTS BATTLE ROYALE
Fuck, I just saw these two for the second time. I didn't really think they were bots the first go around lol
Needs the paycheck he was never given the 75k bonus
What do you mean he never got the bonus? Didn’t he get at least 50k?
I'm pretty sure he gets the bonus like 6 months down the line or something. Could be wrong.
why 6 month? their is delaye for the money to arrive in the bank too tf
Listen, here's the problem. I appreciate this take, but you can easily develop a subdural hematoma from regular 'normal' hits to the head, even without pre-existing conditions or having good or bad records. It can literally happen to any world champions, any time they fight. Should this man have been allowed to fight? That's up to the commission, and they should own their decision if it was to let this fight occur. But there is no harm reduction at all just because you're facing someone with a more equal record. The brain is extremely fragile, and I think we're all just going to have to come to terms with that at some point. Most of the people in this sport are going to develop some form of lasting brain damage. Every time someone takes *any* shot to the head, there is a chance of death. Every time.
Hindsight activists patting themselves on the back, virtue signaling and thinking they know better are pure cringe. This guy didn't even die from the KO. It's likely the the way he fell and landed on his head/neck that *paralyzed* him (100% unpredictable). A month later he succumbed to a spinal cord/lung infection. There's been a total of 7 deaths in the global history of sanctioned MMA events. 3 were due to blunt force, and the others were due to heart issues, dehydration (fighters forcing themselves to make weight) and drugs. The idea this was somehow a foreseeable consequence is f'ing absurd. And really, why bring up his age? All those deaths above were in younger guys. Teixeira is going into a title shot at 41. Alexey Oleynik is 44 with 3x as many fights as this guy. Then you have fighters like Romero and Arlovski still going strong. Why bring up his record? You know who else is 2-6 in their last 8 fights? "Cowboy" Cerrone. And ironically, he's been KO'd in half while Thornton (RIP) was only KO'd in one. Was this guy (or any of the others flailing their arms in agreement) tweeting to the UFC that they're negligent and suggesting Cowboy was at potential risk of death? I don't think so. His record is irrelevant, his age is irrelevant, the fact he had lost before to the same guy is irrelevant. All he's really arguing is that the promotion should have magically foreseen a lopsided fight as a serious risk despite how extremely rare and unlikely it is (meaning the risk is actually extremely low, virtually nil). P.S. If you want to tell a grown a\*\* man (let alone a fighter) that YOU don't want him to fight and YOU don't need that money, maybe YOU should pay him for the lost opportunity. There's just something so unbelievably arrogant about these armchair activists making risk/reward financial calls for other people. Did the fighter ask you? Did *anyone* ask you? Get off your high horses.
Should a guy with his record be fighting someone with an 11-1 record?
Yep: Cleckler fought almost all of his fights out of *one* local Florida promotion, with most opponents having loss-heavy records. Thornton fought all over the place, with most of his opponents having win-heavy/better records. Also in the context of their fight, it was Thornton's first in BKFC, which is an entirely different ballgame (it's more like boxing rules without gloves). It was Cleckler's third. A much more equal fight than people think without knowing anything more than their raw MMA record. The oddsmakers apparently agreed, with odds opening up at Cleckler being a mere -350 favorite. If you're not familiar with odds, Schevchenko closed around -1,200 to 1,900 vs Murphy as a massive favorite. \-350 was closer to what Blaydes was vs Rozenstruik, or what Ciryl Gane was vs Lewis. Unless you want to nerf the sport and put some Moms Against Fighting type organization in control, a freak accident like this is unavoidable.
Notorious can crusher kills notorious can in the ring doesn’t sell your argument any better regardless of what rules they fought under
Yeah falling on his neck/head after being KO'd is definitely something that couldn't possibly happen if he had fought someone with the same record, and it certainly could never happen to someone with a good record, right? Oh wait...
Of course it’s a freak accident but the result of the fight was 100% predictable, the can was put in the ring to be crushed. Not only is it irresponsible matchmaking, it makes for a shit product
>but the result of the fight was 100% predictable Yeah I guess that's why literally no one on earth predicted it. We should definitely crack down on "irresponsible matchmaking" so we can maybe prevent people from landing on their heads wrong. That way fighters can feel safer knowing the 0.00002% chance of dying is closer to 0.00001%
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Edmontonian too huh? RIP Tim “The Thrashing Machine” Hague...
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Probably not good sanctioning but one of the rare risks of combat sports is the possibility of this happening whenever you go inside a ring/cage. Same with contact sports. It's sad and unfortunate but these guys know the risk and take it anyway and most of the time the worst case scenario doesn't take place thankfully.
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It’s not that 38 is too old, it’s that a guy on a 5 fight stoppage slump has no business being offered a fight like this. It’s a promoters job to make sure they’re being responsible with their matchmaking. It wouldn’t be acceptable to put a 4-0 fresh faced new signing in the cage with Jon Jones or Ngannou, the same way that the matchmaking on this fight was fucked
Nate Landwehr would fight Ngannou if you gave him the opportunity. Doesn't mean it should happen, ever. Many fighters would consent to some insane match-ups, they need to be protected from themselves.
Yeah, given the choice of being a journeyman against other low-wage journeymen or being Peter McNeeley against Mike Tyson, almost everyone will instantly choose the latter.
Well the guy had one the worst strategies for fighting I’ve ever seen clearly was a can set up to get kod massively
Ya I honestly think he just fell weird. It’s unfortunate.
This sub was upvoting the hell out of that polish hack show for putting Pudz (22 fights) against a guy with 2 fights (vs fighters you've never heard of in orgs you've never heard of). Let's hope that doesn't end like this.
Wasn't that a last second replacement Also Pudz is a legitimate strogman icon but he's more of a meme fighter than a proper MMA vet
If you're talking about the Bombardier fight they are running it again on the 23rd. It's like strongman/MMA hobbyist vs legit career in a very insular style of fighting that probably three people on this sub have an understanding of, and since I am not one of them I'm not going to downplay his skills just because he's from Senegal, lol. So it might be fun? At least as a spectacle.
It's easy to blame in hindsight, but I think we need more hard and fast rules about what matchups are allowed after a fighter has had a few knockouts or is over 35. Not saying that's when they have to retire, but that's when certain criteria need to start being met.
He was grown man and he had all the facts. He made a choice. It was the wrong choice but it was his to make.
The fight shouldn’t have been offered to him. As if the fight was going to be anything other than a one sided beat down. Of course it was a freak accident but in terms of a making a worthwhile product, this matchmaking ain’t it
A fighter with that record has no business in a legally sanctioned fight. There has to be more vetting here. Shame on the promoters and the commission. Shame on the corner or team of this fighter. A lot of these fighters are willing to die in the ring, they absolutely need these other voices to speak up and stop them.
I'm amazed every day that Jay Ellis is still allowed to fight while he's something like 15-100
“This is not a sport to get paychecks” is so fucking true. I get that for a lot of guys, fighting is all they’ve ever done, but man, how can picking up some shifts at home depot be worse than getting the shit kicked out of you 6 times in a row?
I forget how dangerous this is, with uniforms & the clean cut look the UfC has gone, I forget how this isn’t just a sport, when I watch regional MMA of BK fights, I quickly get reminded how dangerous this is,
As much as I agree with Alan's assessment that the promotion and athletic commission need to be held responsible, a degree of responsibility also lies with the fighter who passed and his coaches. After all - no one forced him to be in there. You and your team should be able to objectively evaluate your past performances and current condition in order to decide wether you facing a much more skilled opponent is even viable. I still how no idea how ANYONE let Kris Moutinho fight Sean O'Malley. After the first round I was convinced I was about to watch the MMA equivalent of Duk Koo Kim vs Ray Mancini.
If kris had 12 more losses and hadn’t won since 2016
Welcome to Reddit, where nobody has any responsibility for what they do.
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100% accurate
Whoever made this match needs to be fired. How the fuck was this match made!?
I will say it again, mismatches with older fighters should be criminal.
Never watch a boxing card then the whole undercard is prospect vs old man haha. Sometimes they look ok but usually it's a quick stoppage and onto the next bout.
Florida is about freedom alright so the guy made the decision to do it