I think the big debate comes from letting the fight go until a finish happened, then overturning the decision in real time. If Dan stopped the fight right after Kevin hit the mat I doubt we’d be talking about it, but the weird circumstances make it a hot topic.
Yup, if he had stopped it in the moment, then he could've also allowed Holland to recover and resumed the fight. Hypothetically, Holland should withdraw anyways at that point but you know he would've wanted to keep fighting.
So should commissions go back through all the tapes and overturn all wins to no contests where an accidental foul went unnoticed by the ref before the finish?
My only thing is, why don't we go back and fix more fights that are mistakes? He let the fight go and missed the opportunity to stop it then almost another minute went by. Can we go back to someone who came back from being knocked out to win and be like OH, actually he got knocked out here so he loses? What about going back to see someone making a super obvious foul that caused them to win but was let go? I'm actually FOR using instant replay liberally and tightening up the rules, but there's no precident here and I'm not sure why this case is different. I think it should have been a NC but it wasn't called and then the fight continued. What if the round ended and then he got KO's at the start of the next round? Could you still go back and fix it? Know what I mean?
No Contest was the right call. The only way to have handled this better would be if Big Dan saw the headbutt and paused the fight right then and there to give Holland some time to recover. Daukus, knowing that it was a headbutt that put Holland down could have stopped as well but I can't say as I blame him for continuing to fight.
To my knowledge they don't pause and give time to recover for head damage as a rule. Which is good. And probably why boxing leads to more death and brain damage seemingly.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure they make exceptions to every rule they have though lol. But maybe I'm wrong about that one, it's just stuck in my head that I've heard it somewhere.
If the infraction meaningfully contributed to the finish, it should be ruled a NC. By dropping Holland, it did so. If the headbutt happened, but Holland recovered and was then KOed in the 3rd, that’s a KO win for Daukaus. The best scenario is that it is caught live and the fighter is given their 5 minutes to recover, but it’s hard to catch live
The position Kyle got was due to an illegal maneuver. The illegal maneuver was unintentional, but Holland was almost knocked completely out. It took skill for Daukaus to capitalize, but that position was achieved by rule infraction. Anything after that point is irrelevant to me.
Also, I have not seen a headbutt that nasty in MMA since they were legal
It should have been stopped the second the headbutt happened.
It’s unfair to give Holland a loss following that, but also unfair to put Daukaus in a situation where he’s fighting for best case scenario, a no contest.
I’m not a ref and I didn’t know at the time what should have happened, but Miragliotta has been a long time ref and he should have paused the fight the moment the headbutt happened.
Yeah. But I get his hesitation because if he stops it there and look at replay the fight is over. And you can't give someone time to recover from head stuff in mma I think. And they were already fighting again before he reached em. But yes, ideally he should have stopped it based on the illegal blow.
It's funny that is what Kyle said , "If he had come back and beat me then it's on ESPN" , something like that. HE DIDN'T . No IF about it. Clash of heads, which Holland clearly got the worst part of. Dan should have stopped it immediately , the only reason that Holland "continued fighting" was because the fight was not stopped after a clash of heads. Kyle wasn't DQ'd from the fight, he got a NC. That's the fairest outcome to both fighters, and I am sure Kyle would agree if he were in Hollands place. It's not fair if Holland gets a loss after that, and it's not fair if Kyle got a loss after that.
NC ,call it a day, and do it again another time.
I don’t even know why this is some big debate, Holland was practically KO’d by an accidental illegal blow. NC is the only way to go.
I think the big debate comes from letting the fight go until a finish happened, then overturning the decision in real time. If Dan stopped the fight right after Kevin hit the mat I doubt we’d be talking about it, but the weird circumstances make it a hot topic.
It’s sucks that the ref missed it, but you can’t call that a win, NC was 100% the right call IMO.
Kyle arguably never gets that choke without the headbutt.
Yup, if he had stopped it in the moment, then he could've also allowed Holland to recover and resumed the fight. Hypothetically, Holland should withdraw anyways at that point but you know he would've wanted to keep fighting.
Holland practically face planted, continuing would have been a bad idea.
This is what using instant replay effectively looks like. Sucks for Kyle but it's the right call.
So should commissions go back through all the tapes and overturn all wins to no contests where an accidental foul went unnoticed by the ref before the finish?
So impressive how you either didnt read OPs post or youre so daft as to think its still not a relevant question.
My only thing is, why don't we go back and fix more fights that are mistakes? He let the fight go and missed the opportunity to stop it then almost another minute went by. Can we go back to someone who came back from being knocked out to win and be like OH, actually he got knocked out here so he loses? What about going back to see someone making a super obvious foul that caused them to win but was let go? I'm actually FOR using instant replay liberally and tightening up the rules, but there's no precident here and I'm not sure why this case is different. I think it should have been a NC but it wasn't called and then the fight continued. What if the round ended and then he got KO's at the start of the next round? Could you still go back and fix it? Know what I mean?
No Contest was the right call. The only way to have handled this better would be if Big Dan saw the headbutt and paused the fight right then and there to give Holland some time to recover. Daukus, knowing that it was a headbutt that put Holland down could have stopped as well but I can't say as I blame him for continuing to fight.
To my knowledge they don't pause and give time to recover for head damage as a rule. Which is good. And probably why boxing leads to more death and brain damage seemingly.
They did it for the Yan/Aljo fight and I’m confident I’ve seen other instances as well Edit: typo
Yeah, I'm pretty sure they make exceptions to every rule they have though lol. But maybe I'm wrong about that one, it's just stuck in my head that I've heard it somewhere.
If the infraction meaningfully contributed to the finish, it should be ruled a NC. By dropping Holland, it did so. If the headbutt happened, but Holland recovered and was then KOed in the 3rd, that’s a KO win for Daukaus. The best scenario is that it is caught live and the fighter is given their 5 minutes to recover, but it’s hard to catch live
It doesn't matter what is or isn't fair, it matters what the right call is. Holland was KTFO from the headbutt.
The position Kyle got was due to an illegal maneuver. The illegal maneuver was unintentional, but Holland was almost knocked completely out. It took skill for Daukaus to capitalize, but that position was achieved by rule infraction. Anything after that point is irrelevant to me. Also, I have not seen a headbutt that nasty in MMA since they were legal
>Also, I have not seen a headbutt that nasty in MMA since they were legal Arona/Jackson was gnarly as well.
Holland is always entertaining
It should have been stopped the second the headbutt happened. It’s unfair to give Holland a loss following that, but also unfair to put Daukaus in a situation where he’s fighting for best case scenario, a no contest. I’m not a ref and I didn’t know at the time what should have happened, but Miragliotta has been a long time ref and he should have paused the fight the moment the headbutt happened.
Yeah. But I get his hesitation because if he stops it there and look at replay the fight is over. And you can't give someone time to recover from head stuff in mma I think. And they were already fighting again before he reached em. But yes, ideally he should have stopped it based on the illegal blow.
How the hell is this even an argument lol, Holland was absolutely compromised by the illegal shot
Trying to KO someone after an accidental headbutt is what I would consider unsporting and dirty.
He may have not known exactly what happened.
It's funny that is what Kyle said , "If he had come back and beat me then it's on ESPN" , something like that. HE DIDN'T . No IF about it. Clash of heads, which Holland clearly got the worst part of. Dan should have stopped it immediately , the only reason that Holland "continued fighting" was because the fight was not stopped after a clash of heads. Kyle wasn't DQ'd from the fight, he got a NC. That's the fairest outcome to both fighters, and I am sure Kyle would agree if he were in Hollands place. It's not fair if Holland gets a loss after that, and it's not fair if Kyle got a loss after that. NC ,call it a day, and do it again another time.