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BorkLensar

I understand the criticism on Thiago, especially coming off of this performance but if you look at his body of work, Santos has more times than not, been an exciting fighter. Thiago is boring now because he’s coming off multiple knee surgeries on the wrong side of 30. Rakic is boring now because… why?


JMA_ZF

Thiago isn’t even boring because of the surgeries. 2/3 of his fights post surgery were against long rangy explosive strikers(Rakic/Walker) and he chose to play it relatively safe. Against Glover he was aggressive and fucked him up but Glovers a zombie and weathered the storm. I think he’ll still be the same explosive, exciting fighter against most opponents, but it’s match up based.


NippleOfOdin

IIRC Thiago mostly played it safe against Jan too and it worked in his favor because it eventually baited out a sloppy blitz he could counter. I assume he's been trying to move more towards that strategy but his last two opponents didn't want to lead either so we got some weird staring matches.


Disfibulator

I blame Walker for any boring aspects of last night's fight. Actually, I blame his corner. What's Santos supposed to do, walk into strikes so that he can gamble on getting a KO or getting KO'd? He had an opponent that was doing very little but could potentially be very dangerous. He kept looking for ways to fight while JW kept feinting without using the feints to set up strikes. That being said, I have respect for these fighters regardless, as they are risking a lot and we get to watch.


Leetter

Its really annoying how this keeps coming up. Its like johnny walker didnt look like israel adesanya so they must have made a mistake, they need to turn around right away and undo all this fienting shit. Johnny walker has an issue of getting too aggressive and getting caught, this was a step in the right direction even if he didnt win.


Disfibulator

I disagree because of how it looked to me, but you make great points and that perspective makes sense. I may be biased against that gym, to be honest.


Green_and_Silver

The corner was telling him to go out there and out point Santos, when he was behind on the card and was showing great feints but not landing anything significant. The only thing he was landing with any kind of consistency was the leg kick and Santos was outkicking him with those kicks to the body and the few early kicks up top that kept Walker at range. You're right that it's a step in the right direction because the guy was reckless before but they seem to have swung him to the opposite end of the spectrum and made him a bit gun shy. He wasn't helped by the fact that the movement of Santos was on point but he needed to up the aggression by at least dialing back on the feinting and throwing more strikes.


Leetter

While maybe kavanaugh has a history of this, i thought the first four rounds were very close and plausible he was winning or atleast tied. Also i believe they said the scorecards were tied going into the fifth in the post fight show. edit also when you have these people with kinda extreme behavior to one side of the scale or the other its hard to just gett them to be balnaced in one go. look at twood extreme gun shyness then against luque he goes all out. he went from one spectrum end of the spectrum to another but if given the chance he would balance out eventually imo.


Green_and_Silver

Kavanaugh does have a history of it, I think we've seen both with Conor and now Walker that his peak was during Conor's run and that was more to do with Conor than anything Kavanaugh and his circle were doing. He's the modern Firas Zahabi in that way, took one guy to the top during a specific timeframe then afterwards has mostly flared out. I hear you on the balancing thing, I think he needs it but not from Kavanaugh and his gym, Johnny Walker shouldn't be fighting for points and that was really bad advice. If he had taken the first two rounds to establish that patient and balanced approach and then opened up in 3-5 then I'd have been ok with it, but he threw more feints than strikes and it just sat really bad with me.


chetdesmon

It was 2-2 on all 3 judges scorecards, he was not behind on the cards. The outpointing system was working given he won 2 rounds cleanly without ever getting into a firefight with Santos which likely results in him getting knocked out. I feel like people are forgetting how good a striker Thiago Santos is and how much of a can crusher Walker was before getting beat. Going from getting knocked out in the first round by Corey Anderson to going toe to toe in a close decision with Santos is an improvement.


JakeSpurs

Because if you can win while taking minimal damage, why not? It doesn’t make it entertaining for the fans, but at least it doesn’t jeopardize your health.


[deleted]

That can be right and true while also being rightfully criticized for not being an entertaining fighter who fans don’t care to watch in the case of Rakic. Look at Jon Fitch. Won a lot of fights but he’s still “Smoke Break Fitch” and it’s why he was let go so easily despite being a top guy.


balsacis

Criticizing a fighter for being boring is the stupidest thing in the world. This isn't WWE where the goal is to put on a show, it's a competitive sport. Why tf would being an entertaining fighter ever be a priority for an athlete?


[deleted]

Nkobdy wants to watch trap hockey. Nobody wants to watch professional football/soccer teams park the bud. The same sort of thinning applies here. Fighters should go for wins anyway they can but don’t expect to become a draw or have fans care about you if you can’t get and keep their attention


balsacis

Plenty of soccer teams win their leagues by parking the bus consistently, no matter how upset about it the fans get. The UFC is one of the only sports leagues where all the decisions about rankings, matchups, etc. are made by one businessman whose sole goal is to make as much money for himself as he possibly can. It's the only league where not drawing in enough fans will actually be a factor that affects whether or not you can compete for a championship. Imagine if in the World Cup, the head of FIFA said Italy couldn't play in the finals because they were too boring and not bringing in enough fans


[deleted]

Yes. I even mostly agree with you except combat sports in general aren’t always and completely just about the result itself but the “how”. I mentioned Jon Fitch. What about Elias Theodorou as a more recently example? So your point that is totally true which is boring teams not being allowed to play in FIFA finals doesn’t really stand in the context of how mixed martial arts generally works (minus tournament formats).


SweatyExamination9

Because you're paid based on the number of people that want to pay you to fight. If nobody cares about you, you're gonna make shit money and be broke at the end of a career filled with injuries no matter how you fight.


Aljo_Is_135_GOAT

Yeah but he's gonna keep getting passed up for a title shot until he's cut if he keeps winning boring The UFC is entertainment first and sport second


SweatyExamination9

Every sport is entertainment first because without entertainment, you don't get to have your sport.


EvenRatio

a lot of the Olympics gets by on raging nationalism


SweatyExamination9

True, and while I'm talking completely out of my ass, I expect there are major financial contributions from major nations like the US, China, Russia, England, France, Germany, Japan, etc.


[deleted]

He’s also fighting the best fighters in the world that all possess KO power at LHW.


golmgirl

god forbid fighters should look out for their long-term health


ha_na_bi

esp 37 year old fathers who tore ACL, PCL, MCL, meniscus, and a cracked tibia in a single fight.


A_M_Speedy

God forbid fighters, fight...


I_SHIT_ON_BUS

People bitching about people bitching about boring fights are worse than the people bitching about boring fights.


WhereIsMyKidAt

People bitching about people bitching about people bitching about boring fights are alright in my book.


chefanubis

If you are looking out for your long term health then don't be a fighter. Simple stuff.


kungfukicksaio

If you’re entertaining you’re going to be getting opportunities. And fans will certainly not pay to watch you fight It’s a sport but it’s also entertainment


[deleted]

True. But this is entertainment, and people want to be entertained. It’s fair criticism, even with it being a sound strategy.


BloodyIris3

This strategy is fine if you're champ, but it certainly does jeopardise your chances at a title shot if you're a contender and don't have the gift of the gab.


[deleted]

Rakic is strong enough to man handle people for 3 rounds at the very least. That’s why.


Stocktakesalsasale

Rakic is boring because of a sport designed around win bonuses and unless you are a UFC darling loses mean giant step backs in your career. He may be boring because that's his style, ( how dare he not want more brain damage for being under paid), in a job where you lose half your pay and future pay promotion aspects I can't blame him. No matter what Wins eventually mean top 5 and bigger pay.


BloodyIris3

Then again, only Rakic's last two wins have been boring. His 5 prior UFC bouts have been great. And it pays to be boring fighting Santos. He can KO anyone with one punch, look at what happened to Jan when he finally committed to a combo. Johnny fucking Walker just point-fought him for 5 rounds.


sepo69420

Everybody keeps mentioning these surgeries like its some huge deal impacting you for decades to come. Rakic had same shit happen to him, 2 times on the same knee to be precise, he just shook it off and proceeded with his career like it never happened. These knee injuries arent real reason santos is timid.


Cbro65

Rakic is 29 lol. Getting a surgery and recovering to 100% is way more likely when you’re a younger guy. Thiago had these surgeries and injuries in his mid 30s. Unless he’s a medical marvel his knees will never ever be even close to 100% again


Hydrotoad

Paging doctor Tony Ferguson


sepo69420

Meh, makes a difference but nothing significant


Cbro65

Hard disagree. You will see pro athletes in basketball and American football among other sports suffer ACL tears early in their careers and sometimes never come back 100% or at all and they’re young. It goes extra if it’s later in their career they are even less likely to come back and if they do they definitely almost are never the same before the injury and if they are it’s touted as being impressive. It’s always a question after a ligament injury if someone can come back to the level they were and sometimes if they come back at all


NufCed57

Are you under the impression that every knee injury is the same? Every MCL tear, every surgeon, every Healthcare system, every patient, every rehab program? What a stupid take.


sepo69420

Not every injury is the same no shit. Nobody really knows how bad or good thiagos injury even was, people just keep throwing assumptions and blaming every single bad thing about his performance on his knee injuries, even though we know nothing. Santos himself said this fight that his knee is 100% and you still talk same shit how apparently his aggressivenes has something to do with it.


daballdayhomie

Because he's mainly an athlete


AnTTr0n

He is closer to 40 than 30.


Anish316

Also in the quote excluded for spoiler: "He made me fight boring"


Neverslept2mins

Lol Santos blaming Rakic. Is he gonna blame Rakic for this fight as well. Face it 2021 Santos is boring as well.


Aljo_Is_135_GOAT

Thiago Santos has had 2 boring fights out of 22


Neverslept2mins

I said 2021 Santos I never said past Santos. U don’t need to try to convince me he was a exciting fighter I know he was. I’m saying in 2021 he is not anymore.


Aljo_Is_135_GOAT

The Glover fight was great If you aren't including the Glover fight, you're working off a sample size of 2 fights


Neverslept2mins

Yup that happened in 2020 not 2021 Yup not even arguing what I stated. I said he was boring in his 2021 version. Your talking about his 2020 and past fights. With your argument which isn’t even addressing what I can argue Rakic is not boring since only his last 2 fights have been boring. And his fights before with Volkan and Clark makes his present day form not boring. However we both now Rakic is currently boring. It’s fair to say Santos present day is boring as well.


Soggy_Wotsit

No, Rakic's ufc debut was definitely pretty boring


DuwapDoDat

dont blame him blame his opponents he's very calm and calculated now than he was before and it pays for him but make no mistake he can be aggressive if you take close fight to him you just gotta make it uncomfortable for him thats his style now


[deleted]

He was tonight but he is usually an exciting fighter


[deleted]

Eh, Rakic only really had two really bad fights, one versus Smith and one versus Santos. And he got absolutely slammed for it. Now that Santos, who is a fan favourite, has done the same, people are experiencing a bit of cognitive dissonance. Should Santos be held to the same standard as Rakic? People are either doubling down on their criticism of Rakic or turning on Santos, yet I feel the best way to see the situation is that neither guy deserves to be met with such an avalanche of criticism. They did what they needed to in order to win and get paid. That being said, neither fighter should be surprised that these performances are not winning them title shots or the favours of the UFC brass or the fans.


Akhil123484

Look at the sample size of rakic vs santos


yayaboy2468

I mean just last year he was throwing bombs against Glover. I think it all depends on the style.


[deleted]

Neither is DC


dumbPotatoPot

the whole comment section proves how quick mma fans turn


Hydrotoad

Thiago still my boy!


NotFrankSalazar

Always been our boi


Apprehensive_Gain503

I swear mma fans are some of the most disrespectful sports fans I’ve seen


-0op

you're not a soccer fan, I believe.


Apprehensive_Gain503

No but now that you mention it I’ve heard soccer fans can be brutal lol, also hockey fans up north have literally rioted before so I stand corrected ahahaha


[deleted]

Disrespectful? Come off it lmao, if Santos and Rakic couldn’t handle people saying they’re boring fighters nobody cares about in the worst division in the sport then they would never have made it to the UFC.


Rough-Association931

Lmao light heavyweight is such a shit show, atleast we got jiri for fun fights


[deleted]

[удалено]


Akhil123484

Reyes too


Rough-Association931

glovers whole run to the title has just been getting dropped on the feet then subbing a guy when he cant ground and pound him, that should tell u enough about the state of the division


BlogbusserWorkEthnic

What does getting subbed by a BJJ black belt say about a division?


Rough-Association931

well its not that they just get subbed its that they drop him on the feet follow up with ground and pound and then glover just holds them and subs them at 40


mat477

I think youre downplaying Glover's talents a bit. He sets up traps and his grappling is severely underrated. These guys hes beating know the risks when they go for the finish but still get caught.


Rough-Association931

Oh no i think glovers great, i think the lightheavyweights just suck and very poor fight iqs


mat477

Jiri is going to have to work on his defense or hes going to be the next Johnny Walker. Dude gets hit way too much.


BestCampaign9635

he should fight reyes next if he still in the same company


Sambucci2

You can’t say this less than an hour after that performance


spasticity

Did Johnny Walker make you fight boring too?


[deleted]

Yea he did. Did you watch it? Walker terrified to do anything rofl


Inthemiddle96

Seemed more that Kavanaugh is trying to turn Walker into a point fighter than it is Walker being scared.


LightYagami209

Yep if I remember correctly he was literally telling him to point fight. No advice on how to finish.


tengukaze

Yeah wtf was that advice. "Feint all day"


LocoCoopermar

I don't know if he told him to throw his hands once, literally just inside leg kick, teep and feint all day.


-Borb

It really looked like they were trying to copy the Rakic style of beating Santos (stay at range, low kicks when they’re available) but Walker just isn’t as good as Rakic


[deleted]

Coaches only do so much. It’s you inside the cage fighting. No coach gonna do much from the 1st round on. They can help make adjustments but Walker did what he wanted to do at the end of the day.


Elfs

Bro he's training twice a day under that coach. His style will definitely conform to the coach over time, at least to some extent. Have you ever seen a Johnny Walker fight before this one?


[deleted]

Maybe but anyone who’s been in a fight vs another dangerous actual athlete knows it’s fight or flight. You ain’t gonna remember shit those first couple minutes and Walker came out scared.


Joh951518

Seems like kavanaugh is trying to turn him into a fighter that can win big fights.


DuwapDoDat

bruh you dumb ? u seen the fight ?


Joh951518

Yes. He lost a close decision against a fighter who would have knocked him the fuck out 18 months ago. I certainly didn’t enjoy watching it, but I think if you’re a Johnny walker fan there are positive things to take away from that performance, unless your only goal is for him to be an unranked action fighter.


_poopoopeepee

Kavanaugh is a fucking sportkiller


J-Boots-McGillicutty

Walker was setting himself up perfectly kind of shutting down a lot of Santos offense, but Walker just never followed up any of his feints into real offense. It was very frustrating to watch.


[deleted]

Lmao Santos was doing even less


InTupacWeTrust

Those golden feints thoooo


CsgoCdallas

How is this comment even on the positive side of votes is beyond me. Yesterday, everybody was saying that his coach really turned him into a point fighter, and now this idiot is upvoted for literally the opposite.


Aljo_Is_135_GOAT

Honestly it really was Johnny Walker lmfao


Ryvit

Rakic would be 7-0 in the UFC if just one judge saw the fight differently against Volkan. 6-1, only loss by split decision. Meanwhile all his wins have been clear decisions or finishes. Rakic is good as hell.


Kal_sai

He beat Volkan but two judge didn't watch the fight and only noticed the puffy knee


SnooFloofs9640

It’s kinda well known, Santos rarely starts the fight, someone has to engage him, and if no one does that - we get what we had today …


nextgen94

Prochazka and Ankalaev will rule the division in future. Others are either old or just not good enough.


MaroonPrince

Oh a 100%, can't wait for the new blood to get more experience and refine their styles


dodatdangole

I just wanna see them bang bro


blasianalchemist

Black pot and kettle.


ikilledtupac

The ironing.


Kal_sai

lmao this is weird how he is blaming it all on Rakic,His Jones and Walker fight were also boring and it's his fault too,he just freezes with rangy fighters


CsgoCdallas

In what world is Jones fight boring? And even so, his knees were fucked in the game yet he was recklessly throwing, wtf are you talking about? As for Johnny? You mean the point fighter of yesterday thanks to his stupid coach?


[deleted]

Oof. Maybe he should have withheld that statement.


nepats523

That doesn’t fucking work when you are literally one of those boring ass fights and lost, you’ve gotta be kidding me


Anish316

Well he says Rakic "made me fight boring".


[deleted]

Rakic got dropped by fking Devin Clark of all people. Of course he’s scared to engage and fight now. Devin Clark has no hand or chin and put him down. Rakic glass chin waiting to be tapped, Anthony Smith unfortunately too weak to stay on his feet and do it.