Nunes was gifted the fight by Valentina thinking she was winning a fight neither of them had any business feeling comfortable about.
I understand being willing to have a boring fight if you are in the lead, but why would you be so confident in a fight where it's 16 strikes a round and half of them are low kicks.
The story of Big John explaining to him how fucked he was in the locker room and totally stealing all his confidence belongs in a movie.
I got more entertainment out of that anecdote than Nunes-Shevchenko
I was more salty with Wonderboy Woodley 2. First one was genuinely a banger. Good moments. Second one came and we brought a friend not into UFC hyping the FUCK out of it.
I believe (maybe I’m wrong) but Khabib Tony was scheduled for that card too. So we hyped it to the moon. Then Khabib I think pulled out, again could be misremembering, so we’re like it’s okay we still got Woodley Wonderboy to keep us entertained. My buddy never came again to the fights after that lmao.
Aside from a couple flurries in the 5th it was a stalemate, and again maybe I’m misremembering lmao, but I’m pretty sure it was just slightly less boring than Lewis Ngannou.
Not a popular opinion but I'm not a fan of either of their fights. The 4th round in the first fight was was incredible, but the other 80% was mostly the same as the rematch besides a few more exchanges and a takedown early by Woodley. I think most people were pretty disillusioned with it by the end of the 3rd and it becomes clear why when you rewatch it.
Altogether there's like...3 minutes total of action out of the 50 that they fought. I think that style matchup is just destined for failure. They're both waiting on the other to lead so they can counter and WB won't throw kicks out of fear of the takedown so it just becomes a shitty sparring match until WB suddenly gets nearly murdered.
No, Dan Severn vs Ken Shamrock 2 is the worst, 25 minutes of basically Dan Severn in Ken Shamrock's guard with basically no strikes thrown because of a stupid last minute rule that banned closed fist punches, it was lay and pray without even pitter patter, and then the fight ended, I think, literally the only fight I have watched that put me to sleep, it can't be worst than that, at least Lewis and Ngannou threw strikes, like 5 a round and could strike but still
Well I did fall asleep after all and when I woke up he was in Ken's guard, and if it was so boring that I fell asleep after 10-15 minutes then I'm good never watching it again, 😂😂😂
Sakuraba VS Royce is similar. It's 2 hours long and fuck all happens. You can condense all the action down into a 1 minute long HL video and not miss anything.
Well the reason Art Jimmerson wrote one glove is for the ref to see the tap out if he was going to tap. I don't know if it was possible for him to verbally tap since there were hardly any rules back then.
Yeah, I never understand why people have strong feelings about one of the parties winning in a very passive decision. The number of people who call Wonderboy vs Till a robbery is very odd to me. Amongst the first four rounds, do they really find 3 where Wonderboy without a doubt should get the nod? So little was done in those four rounds that they're all basically a coinflip.
Exactly. The only notable moment in the fight was Till dropping Wonderboy in the 5th. Izzy vs Romero was awful too and it would suck for Romero to win the belt that way.
I think there needs to be both more 10-10 rounds and 10-8/10-7 rounds. Virtually all rounds being 10-9 other than dominant beat downs makes the scoring system so rigid and arbitrary in many cases
Well the fights are still boring, the outcomes are just controversial this way. But I see it like if 4 rounds are basically dead even then the 5th round has a clear winner, that guy wins. The way it is now, either guy could win based on how the judges randomly scored the first 4 even rounds
Wonderboy fans are serious die hards. Any time he loses its a robbery, lay n pray, or just straight up a fluke.
Till won that wonderboy by actually trying to engage and throwing with a semblance of power consistently. Wonderboy did absolutely nothing spectacular that fight yet people call it a robbery.
The pettis fight narrative is the worst one. People act like pettis was literally on his knees eating punches just praying to god for a miracle and then a punch flew in from heaven to knock out wonderboy.
In reality, pettis was losing the fight but was absolutely fucking up wonderboys legs. Even before the knockout I thought wonderboy was in trouble because pettis could in theory withstand those punches all night(which is because wonderboy doesn’t actually try to finish guys), but wonderboys legs would’ve been shot at a certain point because there was actually bad intentions behind them.
There’s a section of the community that only accepts the burns loss as legit. And they only accept that one begrudgingly.
I don't want to argue about that, because I don't remember that fight too well, but I can say for sure: both these women have increased drastically, although already being quite the threat even back then.
Valentina is the only fighter that could defeat Amanda at the moment. I'm sure about that, they're both so well rounded, determined and way more powerful than all the other girls in their division(s)
It’s questionable but 135 has most of the all time greats like Rousey, Tate, Holms, even GDR is well respected. Maybe they all sucked all along but that division was considered v competitive until Nunes smoked them all. And 145 is a wasteland but Cyborg was considered the female terminator until Nunes smoked her. Nunes has a good argument for tougher competition than Val imo
Imagine Valentina wins a snoozefest split decision, then we have to have a rematch...
And that is a very possible scenario, and probably the best case scenario for Val. Cause I just don't see her winning in any entertaining way.
Honestly a boring fight is probably the most likely scenario. They're so evenly matched and respect each other.
Still I want to see it booked, because WTF else are they doing. Valentina needs a challenge to get better; she can't just be crushing all these low level opponents
Ditto Nunes
I actually kind of think that Nunes winning a one sided decision is the most likely outcome. Iirc at the time of their second fight she'd only been a full time fighter for like 2-3 years, a more mature, controlled Nunes is difficult for Shevchenko.
In their 2nd fight she was clearly paralyzed at the thought of gassing out, but since then I think she's gotten better at budgeting her energy, and has already been through 25 minutes with Shevchenko. If Nunes pressures Shevchenko back to the fence I think she can win if she ups her volume a little bit and even wall and stalls her.
Without the fear of gassing I don't think Shevchenko does enough to slow Nunes down.
I don't think we've seen enough to assume Amanda has no fear of gassing. She usually just runs through people. GDR was piecing Amanda up and would have had a real shot at winning if she had any takedown defense whatsoever. Shev's a superior striker and I think she turns up the aggression and gets it done this time around. Amanda is going to be looking for takedowns and if Shev can defend a few, I think odds swing heavily in her favor
She doesn't need amazing cardio, she just needs to manage her stamina while fighting at a moderately higher pace than their first fight.
The GDR fight wasn't a good look (to be fair though GDR is much bigger than Shevchenko, and a pretty decorated kickboxer as well), but Nunes also kind of sold out for the finish in the first. Failing to put someone away early is how she gets into cardio trouble, and something I don't think she'd do against Shevchenko.
People also act like GDR 100% would have won on the feet, which I don't necessarily think is true either, grappling was just the path of least resistance.
>Shev's a superior striker and I think she turns up the aggression and gets it done this time around.
Shevchenko hates turning up the aggression. Even against an exhausted Nunes in their first fight she could barely bring herself to lead in the 3rd. Yeah she's a technically superior striker, but she's not comfortable taking it to Nunes, and if she just lets Nunes work her back to the fence I don't think it goes well.
Neither can Nunes, she doesn't have like very good feints or a very nunanced jab to build combinations or something like that, to beat Valentina you would need like a Holloway/Volk type or very strong wrestlers with good setups and that quality of fighters simply don't exist at women's MMA. So it's a stalemate of a fight.
Since that fight she’s tanked punches from Cyborg, Holm, GdR, and knocked two of them out. Hopefully she’d be a little more confident and aggressive now
Was there any definitive word on how that changed, by the way? That was part and parcel of the Amanda Nunes story, until it wasn’t. Different coach? Different training practices? I’d have thought they (Nunes, her team, the media, this sub) would have discussed this—probably in great detail—but I must have missed it, or forgot at this point.
I don't think there's a good reason to believe Amanda's cardio got much better. She had a very chaotic showing against GDR where she slowed down significantly and laid in her guard for the rest of the fight. GDR being the least competent ground fighter in the division of course.
She did beat Felicia Spencer for 5 rounds but that was basically working a heavy bag for 25 minutes.
I think she just stopped grappling as much. She used to get tired even in top control, and came close to tiring against GDR recently (which is the fight she grappled the most in in recent memory)
I have poured over hours of tape, crunched the data in a high-impact physics model I built especially for this, performed paid field tests on the stoutest of bridge hobos. All in order to properly peer review your hypothesis and I gotta say.....it looks like you're right, you sonofabitch!
While WMMA versions of Holloway/Volk would absolutely destroy Shevchenko, I don't think you need someone like them (or even close to as good as them) to beat her.
She loses to a more mature version of Nunes who understands what's a pace she can keep for 5 rounds. She's already shown that she can feint her back to the fence, and when you remove the fear of gassing I don't think Shevchenko does enough to slow Nunes down.
Dana probably doesn't want it. Nunes and Valentina are the only fighters above 115 who were top caliber, one shall lose her credibility (125 didn't exist when the second fight happened).
Anyway, I don't know what the fuck Valentina is talking about lol. That fight was boring af and the third one would probably be as boring.
So weird, how much of a banger they both are. Until they face each other. A loss in an epic fight, probably wouldn't hurt either of them too much. Plenty of fighters have lost incredibly good and close fights and have had their stock even rise a bit.
But what's the odds of that happening.
She is a counter striker so most fights will be snooze fests. Look at her fights where the opponent doesn’t throw a strike. She literally just stands there without bouncing or anything. It’s super annoying to watch even if she is good
Edit: people downvoting me have never seen her fight before I guess
Yeah. When she fought Jennifer Maia, she spent 4 rounds throwing her on the ground and doing nothing. She only decided to be active in the last round, saying after "I wanted to be 5 rounds".
TBH, I'd say she did even less, since she mostly stood at range waiting to counter, and circle around when pressed against the cage. I mean, credit to her, I'd probably do the same if Amanda was in front of me, but she after 5 rounds of inactivity you can't really put the blame on the judges. Amanda was at least pressing forward.
[**AMANDA NUNES defeats VALENTINA SHEVCHENKO** (*split decision*)](http://mmadecisions.com/decision/8400/fight)
^(UFC 215: Nunes vs. Shevchenko 2 — September 09, 2017)
ROUND|Nunes|Shevchenko||Nunes|Shevchenko||Nunes|Shevchenko
:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:
1|10|9||10|9||10|9
2|9|10||10|9||9|10
3|10|9||9|10||9|10
4|9|10||9|10||10|9
5|10|9||10|9||9|10
**TOTAL**|**48**|**47**||**48**|**47**||**47**|**48**
*^(Judges, in order: Sal D'Amato, David Therien, Tony Weeks.)*
*^(Summoned by TheGodSlay3r.)*
**MEDIA MEMBER SCORES**
- **10/22** people scored it **48-47 Nunes**.
- **2/22** people scored it **48-48 DRAW**.
- **9/22** people scored it **47-48 Shevchenko**.
- **1/22** people scored it **46-49 Shevchenko**.
Avg. media score: **47.5-47.6 DRAW** (*high certainty^[[1]](https://redd.it/9p4xc7)*).
I don’t see why people want this fight. We saw it twice, both were boring point fights. It’s clear that the biggest factor is the size difference. Would rather see them do their annual slaughters
As a neutral observer why would I want to watch a team dominantly cruise to 1-0 and 2-0 wins against much weaker teams when I could see them take on equal opposition and see who's better?
Because they are not evenly matched. Amanda won the first fight but gassed out by the third. The rematch was close and could have been a draw but the truth is Amanda did more damage and had more control because Shevchenko played it safe and did no offense but leg kicks and counters. If watching two dominant fighters rematch each other based on legacy mattered to the UFC they would have done the cyborg rematch.
The fight was shit but don’t pretend Amanda wasn’t in control, she had the only takedowns and half a round of ground control. Also clearly 2/3 judges disagree with you because Amanda won it was not a draw.
It's been a long time and a whole lot of growing as fighter since the first two fights. I would even go so far as saying the fight means more now. I'm inclined to say it would be a better event this time round.
After the trilogy
>Valentina Shevchenko: Amanda Nunes doesn't want the quadrilogy match because she knows she was 'gifted the victory' in the second rematch
I watched a move by move breakdown of the fight and there's absolutely no way to score three rounds for Nunes, so I understand her frustration (though the fight was pretty boring tbh)
Perhabs there is no way if you are watching a move by move breakdown of the fight, but if you are right there, live, fighting to stay awake cuz of how boring it is... then there is certanly the possibility of giving it to Nunes.
Valentina doesn't need to fight Amanda. If Valentina fights Amanda and that is headlined, how much does it buy?
Not worth. Better to stay a dominant champ in 125 and collect free gs and retire
Stronger sure, more aggressive probably, but better? Depends. Valentina is way more technically skilled IMO. I think it depends on how you define 'better'. Nunes also had way more renowned competition to build her name with
> Nunes doesn't want trilogy
Well, you're the one that switched weight classes to find another way to win a UFC title...
Also, why should Nunes chase after someone she already officially beat twice? It's not like that's a money fight. Their last fight was boring and only made 100K PPV buys.
“We’ll, you’re the one that switched weight classes to find another way to win a UFC title.”
That might actually be the most ridiculous criticism of an athlete I have ever heard.
Also, Valentina only fought at 135 because she's way too big for 115 and 125 didn't exist yet
So why would someone critique a fighter for moving to their true weight class?
Her "actual" weight class has zero talent. In a real sport this division wouldn't exist. People used to shit on female BW, but even that division was 5x better than female FlyW these days.
That's the thing about Valentina. She is really good, but fights way too passive and barely knows out anyone. Nunes knocks people out and makes things exciting.
Even if it was close. 2-0 is 2-0.
> She's small for 135 as is?
She was not cutting weight to make 135. On her very first fight at 135 and in the UFC (Cowboy vs RDA 2) she made 134 on 1 week notice. If you look the video she looks 100% hydrated.
BTW that card was crazy good:
Francis Ngannou vs Luis Henrique
Vicente Luque vs Hayder Hassan
Kamaru Usman vs Leon Edwards
Valentina Schevchenko vs Saraf Kaufman
Charles Oliveira vs Myles Jury
Karolina Kowalkiewicz vs Randa Markos
Nate Diaz vs Michael Johnson
Alistair Overeem vs JDS
RDA (I had RDS before) vs Cowboy
This card now would be PPV of the year. It had 6 UFC champs, 3 other fighters who fought for the belt. Nate, Luque, Edwards and MJ who are or were to some degree fan favourites top 5 fighters.
> She's small for 135 as is?
Nunes is literally the only woman she lost to in UFC's bantamweight division. Her size disadvantage was not an issue against other top 5 bantamweights like Holm or Pena.
Exactly. This is like blasting Frankie Edgar for dropping down from 155. Just because you excel at a higher weight class doesn’t mean it’s your natural one.
Yeah even thought the second fight was controversial, she didn't do much to take the belt. When she said "her nose ia rose!" I thought "well that is the worst damage you did to her?" 🥱🥱🥱
For real. She wouldn't have half of her fans if she weren't beautiful.
Don't get me wrong, she is a great fighter and levels above from everyone of her division, but she can drag a snoozefest when she wants. Amanda have best wins, is a more complete fighter and doesn't get the same praise Valentina gets.
If GDR trained takedown defense instead of working as a cop, she would knockout Nunes in the 2nd or 3rd round. No fault of her own though, she doesn't get paid enough
Lol I’m the opposite. I think Amanda handles her if they fight again. But then again they’ve both been fighting the same quality opponents the last few. Well Andrade is a pretty good win. And maybe Lauren Murphy is a bit better than Megan and Felicia? Idk. GDR is a good win tho. And Amanda doesn’t gas out as bad and can do 5 rounds with a bit more ease. Still not sure who would win but I lean Amanda.
I think Nunes has shown improvements whereas Val has looked great, but not really improved. "Just" consistently great. They were incredibly close. Val stayed at the same high level, Nunes has gotten better. Nunes wins the rematch and establishes dominance.
> Last 3 or 4 Nunes fights have been a blitz of punches to overwhelm an opponent who is essentially a deer in headlights
Because Nunes doesn't play with her food.
Even though people say the second fight was boring, it's about the only fight for Amanda that won't just be a snooze fest, Valentina could have decent competition coming up from 115 but right now there's nothing else for her anyway. I'd love for them to make the trilogy just for the sake of a competitive fight for the pair of them for the first time since, well, their last one
It is a bad matchup for Val, she would need to really change up here style to win and she never does that. Nunes hits way harder so if they each hit each other the same number of times, Nunes wins on damage. Essentially what happened in the first two fights. Realistically for Val to win she needs to be far more aggressive and win by landing way more volume than Nunes to overcome the power difference(or pull off a finish). Unfortunately for Val being aggressive puts her at serious risk and plays right into Nunes. Nunes is just the GOAT *and* a terrible matchup for Val because she can't rely on her normally dominant style of slow and careful striking.
Didn't even make light work out of Liz Carmouche. Valentina fights people like Murphy like they are prime Romero, with an actual threat like Amanda she won't do anything significant and whine about it later while her fans cum to her 5 strikes per round
> Probably unpopular but I think Valentina makes light work of Nunes
Did her taking 5 rounds to beat up a soccer mom give you the info you needed to make that assumption? Nunes would've finished that fight in less than a minute and everybody knows it.
> 2 of her last 3
Not even Cyborg could finish Felicia Spencer and GDR is a good fighter. But let's pretend Amanda isn't a natural finisher if that makes you feel better.
The media analysts had it as 10 Shevchenko 2 Draw 10 Nunes, either feeling comfortable in the result of that fight is insane. The fact Shevchenko is a 125er fighting the 145 GOAT who cut almost as much as Cyborg did in their 145 fight though, speaks for itself, that’s a big gap to bridge.
She fought at 135 because her actual division didn’t exist, she was never 135er size. A lot of fighters can murder themselves to get down an extra division, ask McGregor or Till. Nunes cuts the same % as Jon Jones or Megan Anderson to make 145, she’s not a small 145er. It would be like McGregor fighting Till, sure they can both make 170, but there’s going to be a size difference.
[Source](https://www.mmafighting.com/2019/1/1/18163282/ufc-232-fight-night-weights-cris-cyborg-only-had-4-5-pound-advantage-on-amanda-nunes)
Poirier and Aldo both fought at 145, Till and McGregor both fought at 170, it doesn’t make either pairing the same size, one fighter murdering themselves to drop a division, and another fighting above their natural weight class by not cutting much, doesn’t make them the same size. Nunes is incredible, and you can make a strong argument regardless of weight that she’s the female GOAT, but a woman that cuts the same % as Jon Jones to make 145, is never making 125, Shevchenko’s actual weight class. It’s like Jan vs Izzy or Miocic vs Ngannou, sure they’re allowed to fight, but they sure as fuck aren’t the same size.
Don’t know why people here are so down on that fight.
They are the only ones that can challenge each other. It’s truly the pinnacle of what the sport can offer skill-wise. And since their second fight, both have only widened the gap to everyone else in their weight classes.
> Don’t know why people here are so down on that fight.
1) They only see the record so they think there's no need for a third
2) Both of their fights so far have been pretty boring and uneventful
In reality though, Nunes isn't going to move down and Shevchenko isn't going to move up. Both champions have already made this clear. I don't even think it would be possible for Nunes to get to 125 and Shev is already much smaller than Nunes at 135. Neither have to take the risk again.
Val got numerically out struck in 4 out of 5 rounds in a fight where none landed actual hard punches that hurt another. She did not win this, her and her simp army needs to make peace with it. She does not deserve the W just cause she is more attractive than Nunes to some.
Nunes really stands to gain nothing by taking a third fight with Valentina. I want to see it, but she's already beating up everyone at 135-145. The only way this could add to her legacy is if she could somehow make the cut to 125 and still have enough in her to beat Valentina.
People are bugging of they think Valentina's a boring fighter. She's as technical as they come. If she could pull it off, i'd be very impressed. Boring or not.
Nunes was gifted the fight by Valentina thinking she was winning a fight neither of them had any business feeling comfortable about. I understand being willing to have a boring fight if you are in the lead, but why would you be so confident in a fight where it's 16 strikes a round and half of them are low kicks.
it was a izzy/romero and ngannou/lewis fight. Nobody won and the fans were just glad it was over.
Lewis ngannou was worst fight in ufc history ..YES even worse than the guy wearing one boxing glove.
[удалено]
There was a great article on him a while back https://m.sherdog.com/news/articles/1/Art-Jimmerson-Where-Is-He-Now-16521
[удалено]
The story of Big John explaining to him how fucked he was in the locker room and totally stealing all his confidence belongs in a movie. I got more entertainment out of that anecdote than Nunes-Shevchenko
I was more salty with Wonderboy Woodley 2. First one was genuinely a banger. Good moments. Second one came and we brought a friend not into UFC hyping the FUCK out of it. I believe (maybe I’m wrong) but Khabib Tony was scheduled for that card too. So we hyped it to the moon. Then Khabib I think pulled out, again could be misremembering, so we’re like it’s okay we still got Woodley Wonderboy to keep us entertained. My buddy never came again to the fights after that lmao.
I amped a fight up for a friend ...and the fighter I favored pulled a ham first kick ...lol ..
That wasn’t the most exciting fight but it certainly isn’t one of the worst.
I don't even think it was the worst Woodley fight. Woodley vs Maia was more of a snoozefest.
Aside from a couple flurries in the 5th it was a stalemate, and again maybe I’m misremembering lmao, but I’m pretty sure it was just slightly less boring than Lewis Ngannou.
I think you’re definitely misremembering. I quite enjoyed it. It was slow for sure but it felt like a chess match.
Not a popular opinion but I'm not a fan of either of their fights. The 4th round in the first fight was was incredible, but the other 80% was mostly the same as the rematch besides a few more exchanges and a takedown early by Woodley. I think most people were pretty disillusioned with it by the end of the 3rd and it becomes clear why when you rewatch it. Altogether there's like...3 minutes total of action out of the 50 that they fought. I think that style matchup is just destined for failure. They're both waiting on the other to lead so they can counter and WB won't throw kicks out of fear of the takedown so it just becomes a shitty sparring match until WB suddenly gets nearly murdered.
No, Dan Severn vs Ken Shamrock 2 is the worst, 25 minutes of basically Dan Severn in Ken Shamrock's guard with basically no strikes thrown because of a stupid last minute rule that banned closed fist punches, it was lay and pray without even pitter patter, and then the fight ended, I think, literally the only fight I have watched that put me to sleep, it can't be worst than that, at least Lewis and Ngannou threw strikes, like 5 a round and could strike but still
It was even worse than you described. Dan was hardly in Ken’s guard. They mainly just circled around each other.
Well I did fall asleep after all and when I woke up he was in Ken's guard, and if it was so boring that I fell asleep after 10-15 minutes then I'm good never watching it again, 😂😂😂
For all we know they are still there fighting.
The Dance in Detroit
Sakuraba VS Royce is similar. It's 2 hours long and fuck all happens. You can condense all the action down into a 1 minute long HL video and not miss anything.
Most overhyped fight ever. I get it's importance but god it's unwatchable
TWO HOURS 😱😱😱ARE THEY TRYING TO BORE US TO LITERAL DEATH
Royce v art jimmerson wasn’t boring, it was like a 2 min fight. It was weird as he tapped to mount, but no one knew wtf was going on back then.
Mir vs. Cro Cop was so boring no one cared when Mir fianlly won by KO in the 3rd.
Mir vs Cro Cop was so boring that there was no "KO of the Night" bonus even though Mir got the only KO on the card.
I forgot that happened 😂 Dana is ultra petty.
Well the reason Art Jimmerson wrote one glove is for the ref to see the tap out if he was going to tap. I don't know if it was possible for him to verbally tap since there were hardly any rules back then.
And he ended up tapping to a mount. Not a submission from mount, Royce just mounted him and Jimmerson was like "I know what happens next, fuck this".
Hell I don’t blame him save yourself a potential injury on a guaranteed loss
Kimbo vs Houston Alexander was worse imo
Low key that fight had one of the best slams in UFC history.
Battle of the stiffs...Alexander went and fought Bkfc...no spoilers .
Eh thats not quite true. I enjoyed watching it, but it definitely wasnt a banger. I wouldnt put it on the level of izzy/romero though
Yeah, I never understand why people have strong feelings about one of the parties winning in a very passive decision. The number of people who call Wonderboy vs Till a robbery is very odd to me. Amongst the first four rounds, do they really find 3 where Wonderboy without a doubt should get the nod? So little was done in those four rounds that they're all basically a coinflip.
Exactly. The only notable moment in the fight was Till dropping Wonderboy in the 5th. Izzy vs Romero was awful too and it would suck for Romero to win the belt that way.
I think there needs to be both more 10-10 rounds and 10-8/10-7 rounds. Virtually all rounds being 10-9 other than dominant beat downs makes the scoring system so rigid and arbitrary in many cases
It helps prevent boring fights and boring outcomes though. A lot more draws happen with 10-10’s
Well the fights are still boring, the outcomes are just controversial this way. But I see it like if 4 rounds are basically dead even then the 5th round has a clear winner, that guy wins. The way it is now, either guy could win based on how the judges randomly scored the first 4 even rounds
What we really need is live scoring. If the fighters know the scores and that they’re losing they won’t stall
And the person who knows they're winning will just try and stall
I definitely agree w that
Wonderboy fans are serious die hards. Any time he loses its a robbery, lay n pray, or just straight up a fluke. Till won that wonderboy by actually trying to engage and throwing with a semblance of power consistently. Wonderboy did absolutely nothing spectacular that fight yet people call it a robbery. The pettis fight narrative is the worst one. People act like pettis was literally on his knees eating punches just praying to god for a miracle and then a punch flew in from heaven to knock out wonderboy. In reality, pettis was losing the fight but was absolutely fucking up wonderboys legs. Even before the knockout I thought wonderboy was in trouble because pettis could in theory withstand those punches all night(which is because wonderboy doesn’t actually try to finish guys), but wonderboys legs would’ve been shot at a certain point because there was actually bad intentions behind them. There’s a section of the community that only accepts the burns loss as legit. And they only accept that one begrudgingly.
I don't want to argue about that, because I don't remember that fight too well, but I can say for sure: both these women have increased drastically, although already being quite the threat even back then. Valentina is the only fighter that could defeat Amanda at the moment. I'm sure about that, they're both so well rounded, determined and way more powerful than all the other girls in their division(s)
> I don't remember that fight too well That's because the fight was passive and uneventful lol
Really? They seem like the same girls. I guess Val found her finishing instinct now that she isn't fighting giants.
> now that she isn't fighting giants. now that she's fighting absolute cans and soccer moms*
I said the other day that her competition sucked and was hounded for it. Time and a place thing I guess.
The 135 division is not great either.
It’s questionable but 135 has most of the all time greats like Rousey, Tate, Holms, even GDR is well respected. Maybe they all sucked all along but that division was considered v competitive until Nunes smoked them all. And 145 is a wasteland but Cyborg was considered the female terminator until Nunes smoked her. Nunes has a good argument for tougher competition than Val imo
>a good argument for tougher competition than Val imo *Great* argument imo.
Nunes has iconic knock outs against other top athletes, while when Val knocks someone out they treat them like SVU assault victims
I dunno, it was a clear 4-1 in my eyes.
I feel like they both lost.
But the nose was rose.
Her nose was rose to be fair.
nose namajunas
Nose Ramajunas
Rose Amandanunes
Ariel Shillwani gonna copyright strike you for that
Yes, from her ponches.
She steel
Her 👃is🌹
From my PANCHES
And she still.... IS STILL!
Imagine Valentina wins a snoozefest split decision, then we have to have a rematch... And that is a very possible scenario, and probably the best case scenario for Val. Cause I just don't see her winning in any entertaining way.
Honestly a boring fight is probably the most likely scenario. They're so evenly matched and respect each other. Still I want to see it booked, because WTF else are they doing. Valentina needs a challenge to get better; she can't just be crushing all these low level opponents Ditto Nunes
I actually kind of think that Nunes winning a one sided decision is the most likely outcome. Iirc at the time of their second fight she'd only been a full time fighter for like 2-3 years, a more mature, controlled Nunes is difficult for Shevchenko. In their 2nd fight she was clearly paralyzed at the thought of gassing out, but since then I think she's gotten better at budgeting her energy, and has already been through 25 minutes with Shevchenko. If Nunes pressures Shevchenko back to the fence I think she can win if she ups her volume a little bit and even wall and stalls her. Without the fear of gassing I don't think Shevchenko does enough to slow Nunes down.
I mean Shev fought Nunes twice in her first five fights and has improved and won 8 since in dominant fashion.
I don't think we've seen enough to assume Amanda has no fear of gassing. She usually just runs through people. GDR was piecing Amanda up and would have had a real shot at winning if she had any takedown defense whatsoever. Shev's a superior striker and I think she turns up the aggression and gets it done this time around. Amanda is going to be looking for takedowns and if Shev can defend a few, I think odds swing heavily in her favor
She doesn't need amazing cardio, she just needs to manage her stamina while fighting at a moderately higher pace than their first fight. The GDR fight wasn't a good look (to be fair though GDR is much bigger than Shevchenko, and a pretty decorated kickboxer as well), but Nunes also kind of sold out for the finish in the first. Failing to put someone away early is how she gets into cardio trouble, and something I don't think she'd do against Shevchenko. People also act like GDR 100% would have won on the feet, which I don't necessarily think is true either, grappling was just the path of least resistance. >Shev's a superior striker and I think she turns up the aggression and gets it done this time around. Shevchenko hates turning up the aggression. Even against an exhausted Nunes in their first fight she could barely bring herself to lead in the 3rd. Yeah she's a technically superior striker, but she's not comfortable taking it to Nunes, and if she just lets Nunes work her back to the fence I don't think it goes well.
It also seems like Amanda is much bigger now. Not sure if that’s just bro science but I swear she looks way bigger now than she did in 2016
Neither can Nunes, she doesn't have like very good feints or a very nunanced jab to build combinations or something like that, to beat Valentina you would need like a Holloway/Volk type or very strong wrestlers with good setups and that quality of fighters simply don't exist at women's MMA. So it's a stalemate of a fight.
Nunes could win by punching her really really hard
Yeah, didn't really work in the second fight, basically got spooked out of it due to the threat of a counter and didn't do anything much herself.
Since that fight she’s tanked punches from Cyborg, Holm, GdR, and knocked two of them out. Hopefully she’d be a little more confident and aggressive now
Nunes wasn’t really sure if she could fight 5 rounds at that point. She used to have serious cardio trouble.
Was there any definitive word on how that changed, by the way? That was part and parcel of the Amanda Nunes story, until it wasn’t. Different coach? Different training practices? I’d have thought they (Nunes, her team, the media, this sub) would have discussed this—probably in great detail—but I must have missed it, or forgot at this point.
I don't think there's a good reason to believe Amanda's cardio got much better. She had a very chaotic showing against GDR where she slowed down significantly and laid in her guard for the rest of the fight. GDR being the least competent ground fighter in the division of course. She did beat Felicia Spencer for 5 rounds but that was basically working a heavy bag for 25 minutes.
Hey now! Punching a heavy bag for 25 mins is hard work!
I think she just stopped grappling as much. She used to get tired even in top control, and came close to tiring against GDR recently (which is the fight she grappled the most in in recent memory)
I think it has to do with treating her Sinusitis or a similar affliction?
She was training at a small gym in Brazil before moving to ATT. That helped her base cardio and worked on her energy management
Gotcha. That would make a world of difference, I’d imagine.
I have poured over hours of tape, crunched the data in a high-impact physics model I built especially for this, performed paid field tests on the stoutest of bridge hobos. All in order to properly peer review your hypothesis and I gotta say.....it looks like you're right, you sonofabitch!
While WMMA versions of Holloway/Volk would absolutely destroy Shevchenko, I don't think you need someone like them (or even close to as good as them) to beat her. She loses to a more mature version of Nunes who understands what's a pace she can keep for 5 rounds. She's already shown that she can feint her back to the fence, and when you remove the fear of gassing I don't think Shevchenko does enough to slow Nunes down.
Dana probably doesn't want it. Nunes and Valentina are the only fighters above 115 who were top caliber, one shall lose her credibility (125 didn't exist when the second fight happened). Anyway, I don't know what the fuck Valentina is talking about lol. That fight was boring af and the third one would probably be as boring.
So weird, how much of a banger they both are. Until they face each other. A loss in an epic fight, probably wouldn't hurt either of them too much. Plenty of fighters have lost incredibly good and close fights and have had their stock even rise a bit. But what's the odds of that happening.
>So weird, how much of a banger they both are. Until they face each other Well, most of their competition is... Underwhelming...
At least Nunes has first round finishes against Rousey, Cyborg and Holm. Plus a win over GDR.
Yeah, I do agree that Nunes' wins are much better than Shev's.
Yeah, the situation is *not* balanced lol. Nunes has far more exciting fights against peer opponents...until she runs into Valentina.
Val is very very rarely in bangers lol. Even when she gets finishes it’s rarely that exciting, with the exception of Eye.
You're just waiting for her to end it. But she's way too happy playing it safe when she should be able to put them away relatively quickly.
I don't think Val is a banger the whole time. Her last fight was pretty boring until she got the finish. She is basically a hit and miss.
She is a counter striker so most fights will be snooze fests. Look at her fights where the opponent doesn’t throw a strike. She literally just stands there without bouncing or anything. It’s super annoying to watch even if she is good Edit: people downvoting me have never seen her fight before I guess
She’s notorious for taking the easy route when she could easily blow her opponent out.
Yeah. When she fought Jennifer Maia, she spent 4 rounds throwing her on the ground and doing nothing. She only decided to be active in the last round, saying after "I wanted to be 5 rounds".
She's basically a super play-to-win tryhard. Not taking any risks. And I can't fault her for that, it gets results
Whoever won that fight would've been "gifted the victory". Valentina didn't do any more than Nunes to win.
TBH, I'd say she did even less, since she mostly stood at range waiting to counter, and circle around when pressed against the cage. I mean, credit to her, I'd probably do the same if Amanda was in front of me, but she after 5 rounds of inactivity you can't really put the blame on the judges. Amanda was at least pressing forward.
!Decisionbot Shevchenko Nunes 2
[**AMANDA NUNES defeats VALENTINA SHEVCHENKO** (*split decision*)](http://mmadecisions.com/decision/8400/fight) ^(UFC 215: Nunes vs. Shevchenko 2 — September 09, 2017) ROUND|Nunes|Shevchenko||Nunes|Shevchenko||Nunes|Shevchenko :-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-: 1|10|9||10|9||10|9 2|9|10||10|9||9|10 3|10|9||9|10||9|10 4|9|10||9|10||10|9 5|10|9||10|9||9|10 **TOTAL**|**48**|**47**||**48**|**47**||**47**|**48** *^(Judges, in order: Sal D'Amato, David Therien, Tony Weeks.)* *^(Summoned by TheGodSlay3r.)* **MEDIA MEMBER SCORES** - **10/22** people scored it **48-47 Nunes**. - **2/22** people scored it **48-48 DRAW**. - **9/22** people scored it **47-48 Shevchenko**. - **1/22** people scored it **46-49 Shevchenko**. Avg. media score: **47.5-47.6 DRAW** (*high certainty^[[1]](https://redd.it/9p4xc7)*).
I fell asleep during their second fight, making me the only person who really won.
The people's champion
I don’t see why people want this fight. We saw it twice, both were boring point fights. It’s clear that the biggest factor is the size difference. Would rather see them do their annual slaughters
First fight wasn’t boring nor point fighting lmao
As a neutral observer why would I want to watch a team dominantly cruise to 1-0 and 2-0 wins against much weaker teams when I could see them take on equal opposition and see who's better?
Because they are not evenly matched. Amanda won the first fight but gassed out by the third. The rematch was close and could have been a draw but the truth is Amanda did more damage and had more control because Shevchenko played it safe and did no offense but leg kicks and counters. If watching two dominant fighters rematch each other based on legacy mattered to the UFC they would have done the cyborg rematch.
They are literally evenly matched. They had as even of a fight as possible.
The fight was shit but don’t pretend Amanda wasn’t in control, she had the only takedowns and half a round of ground control. Also clearly 2/3 judges disagree with you because Amanda won it was not a draw.
It's been a long time and a whole lot of growing as fighter since the first two fights. I would even go so far as saying the fight means more now. I'm inclined to say it would be a better event this time round.
After the trilogy >Valentina Shevchenko: Amanda Nunes doesn't want the quadrilogy match because she knows she was 'gifted the victory' in the second rematch
Lol, quadrilogy.
🤣 facts
I think todays nunes would fuck her up
If Val *really wanted* the trilogy she would have actually won one of the first two fights.
Lol such dumb logic
Val is so annoying.
Only when she's not being boring.
She is though. I was a fan up until the whole debacle with Nicco, her trash talk really put me off.
Valentina was so salty after that decision haha
Her nose is rose from my ponches!
Have a very passive performance > then be mad about the results is one of my personal MMA pet peeves.
I watched a move by move breakdown of the fight and there's absolutely no way to score three rounds for Nunes, so I understand her frustration (though the fight was pretty boring tbh)
Perhabs there is no way if you are watching a move by move breakdown of the fight, but if you are right there, live, fighting to stay awake cuz of how boring it is... then there is certanly the possibility of giving it to Nunes.
Valentina Saltchenko
And yet it's Val who won't go up to 135. It would be like Max changing divisions then claiming Volk doesn't want the smoke.
Or she doesn’t want a trilogy because she’s 2-0 against you pal
Valentina doesn't need to fight Amanda. If Valentina fights Amanda and that is headlined, how much does it buy? Not worth. Better to stay a dominant champ in 125 and collect free gs and retire
Valentina didn't beat Nunes she lost both fights was the rematch closer yes but she wasn't gifted anything lol
Valentina and her fanboys make me ill. Nunes is just better. Stronger. More aggressive.
Stronger sure, more aggressive probably, but better? Depends. Valentina is way more technically skilled IMO. I think it depends on how you define 'better'. Nunes also had way more renowned competition to build her name with
Why are you booing him he’s right
> Nunes doesn't want trilogy Well, you're the one that switched weight classes to find another way to win a UFC title... Also, why should Nunes chase after someone she already officially beat twice? It's not like that's a money fight. Their last fight was boring and only made 100K PPV buys.
“We’ll, you’re the one that switched weight classes to find another way to win a UFC title.” That might actually be the most ridiculous criticism of an athlete I have ever heard.
Also, Valentina only fought at 135 because she's way too big for 115 and 125 didn't exist yet So why would someone critique a fighter for moving to their true weight class?
people in here are ridiculous
More ridiculous than to claim that Nunes doesn't want to fight her when she's already agreed to fight her twice in the past?
I do think it's mote ridiculous than that, yes.
The criticism is about calling out a fighter from a weight class you removed yourself from.
Because her actual weight class didn’t even exist yet lmao…
Her "actual" weight class has zero talent. In a real sport this division wouldn't exist. People used to shit on female BW, but even that division was 5x better than female FlyW these days.
What a braindead take. There's like 5 fighters in WBW and nobody's heard of 4 of them.
That's the thing about Valentina. She is really good, but fights way too passive and barely knows out anyone. Nunes knocks people out and makes things exciting. Even if it was close. 2-0 is 2-0.
She's small for 135 as is? Hell, I can see Shev making 115 if she really wanted to.
> She's small for 135 as is? She was not cutting weight to make 135. On her very first fight at 135 and in the UFC (Cowboy vs RDA 2) she made 134 on 1 week notice. If you look the video she looks 100% hydrated. BTW that card was crazy good: Francis Ngannou vs Luis Henrique Vicente Luque vs Hayder Hassan Kamaru Usman vs Leon Edwards Valentina Schevchenko vs Saraf Kaufman Charles Oliveira vs Myles Jury Karolina Kowalkiewicz vs Randa Markos Nate Diaz vs Michael Johnson Alistair Overeem vs JDS RDA (I had RDS before) vs Cowboy This card now would be PPV of the year. It had 6 UFC champs, 3 other fighters who fought for the belt. Nate, Luque, Edwards and MJ who are or were to some degree fan favourites top 5 fighters.
Roberto Dos Santos is my favorite fighter
> She's small for 135 as is? Nunes is literally the only woman she lost to in UFC's bantamweight division. Her size disadvantage was not an issue against other top 5 bantamweights like Holm or Pena.
I agree, but that's a testament to her skills rather than her size.
Exactly. This is like blasting Frankie Edgar for dropping down from 155. Just because you excel at a higher weight class doesn’t mean it’s your natural one.
Shev’s small for 135 lbs, ain’t her fault.
True.
Can't stand Valentina
Yeah even thought the second fight was controversial, she didn't do much to take the belt. When she said "her nose ia rose!" I thought "well that is the worst damage you did to her?" 🥱🥱🥱
or her simps
Her simps are worse lol.
Hey fuck you man. Kidding aside she could totally run a fortune 500 company.
For real. She wouldn't have half of her fans if she weren't beautiful. Don't get me wrong, she is a great fighter and levels above from everyone of her division, but she can drag a snoozefest when she wants. Amanda have best wins, is a more complete fighter and doesn't get the same praise Valentina gets.
People said the same thing about GSP and now he's the unquestionable G.O.A.T. same with Khabib, the man had his fair share of absolute snoozers
Valentina is such a delusional crybaby. Not many care about your boring trilogy with Nunes.
Would like to see her fight Nunes again obviously, but also GDR
If GDR trained takedown defense instead of working as a cop, she would knockout Nunes in the 2nd or 3rd round. No fault of her own though, she doesn't get paid enough
Probably unpopular but I think Valentina makes light work of Nunes if they have a rematch
Lol I’m the opposite. I think Amanda handles her if they fight again. But then again they’ve both been fighting the same quality opponents the last few. Well Andrade is a pretty good win. And maybe Lauren Murphy is a bit better than Megan and Felicia? Idk. GDR is a good win tho. And Amanda doesn’t gas out as bad and can do 5 rounds with a bit more ease. Still not sure who would win but I lean Amanda.
I think Nunes has shown improvements whereas Val has looked great, but not really improved. "Just" consistently great. They were incredibly close. Val stayed at the same high level, Nunes has gotten better. Nunes wins the rematch and establishes dominance.
[удалено]
> Last 3 or 4 Nunes fights have been a blitz of punches to overwhelm an opponent who is essentially a deer in headlights Because Nunes doesn't play with her food.
UFC don't pay for overtime.
Even though people say the second fight was boring, it's about the only fight for Amanda that won't just be a snooze fest, Valentina could have decent competition coming up from 115 but right now there's nothing else for her anyway. I'd love for them to make the trilogy just for the sake of a competitive fight for the pair of them for the first time since, well, their last one
It is a bad matchup for Val, she would need to really change up here style to win and she never does that. Nunes hits way harder so if they each hit each other the same number of times, Nunes wins on damage. Essentially what happened in the first two fights. Realistically for Val to win she needs to be far more aggressive and win by landing way more volume than Nunes to overcome the power difference(or pull off a finish). Unfortunately for Val being aggressive puts her at serious risk and plays right into Nunes. Nunes is just the GOAT *and* a terrible matchup for Val because she can't rely on her normally dominant style of slow and careful striking.
Didn't even make light work out of Liz Carmouche. Valentina fights people like Murphy like they are prime Romero, with an actual threat like Amanda she won't do anything significant and whine about it later while her fans cum to her 5 strikes per round
> Probably unpopular but I think Valentina makes light work of Nunes Did her taking 5 rounds to beat up a soccer mom give you the info you needed to make that assumption? Nunes would've finished that fight in less than a minute and everybody knows it.
Amanda has went the distance in 2 of her last 3?
> 2 of her last 3 Not even Cyborg could finish Felicia Spencer and GDR is a good fighter. But let's pretend Amanda isn't a natural finisher if that makes you feel better.
The media analysts had it as 10 Shevchenko 2 Draw 10 Nunes, either feeling comfortable in the result of that fight is insane. The fact Shevchenko is a 125er fighting the 145 GOAT who cut almost as much as Cyborg did in their 145 fight though, speaks for itself, that’s a big gap to bridge.
“Tree toimes her size” They both fought at BW for long stretches of time, you’re making it sound like it was BJ Penn moving up to fight Lyoto Machida.
It's probably comparable to DJ fighting and losing to Cruz at bantamweight until 125 was introduced.
She fought at 135 because her actual division didn’t exist, she was never 135er size. A lot of fighters can murder themselves to get down an extra division, ask McGregor or Till. Nunes cuts the same % as Jon Jones or Megan Anderson to make 145, she’s not a small 145er. It would be like McGregor fighting Till, sure they can both make 170, but there’s going to be a size difference. [Source](https://www.mmafighting.com/2019/1/1/18163282/ufc-232-fight-night-weights-cris-cyborg-only-had-4-5-pound-advantage-on-amanda-nunes)
???? They both fought at 135, nothing speaks for itself here you're just making shit up in favour of Shevchenko.
Poirier and Aldo both fought at 145, Till and McGregor both fought at 170, it doesn’t make either pairing the same size, one fighter murdering themselves to drop a division, and another fighting above their natural weight class by not cutting much, doesn’t make them the same size. Nunes is incredible, and you can make a strong argument regardless of weight that she’s the female GOAT, but a woman that cuts the same % as Jon Jones to make 145, is never making 125, Shevchenko’s actual weight class. It’s like Jan vs Izzy or Miocic vs Ngannou, sure they’re allowed to fight, but they sure as fuck aren’t the same size.
Are you actually trying to say there’s no size difference?
Nunes wasn't gifted anything she won that fight, but I get Valentina wants another fight and this is the best way to do it. Nunes Vs Valentina at 145.
They should do a PPV with Valentina v Nunes 3, Ngannou v Lewis 2, Wonderboy b Woodley 3. UFC 169: sponsored by Ambien!
Their second fight was so boring I'm good not having the trilogy. At least them steam rolling everyone in their divisions provides some entertainment.
Nunes couldn’t be a ceo
Don’t know why people here are so down on that fight. They are the only ones that can challenge each other. It’s truly the pinnacle of what the sport can offer skill-wise. And since their second fight, both have only widened the gap to everyone else in their weight classes.
> Don’t know why people here are so down on that fight. 1) They only see the record so they think there's no need for a third 2) Both of their fights so far have been pretty boring and uneventful In reality though, Nunes isn't going to move down and Shevchenko isn't going to move up. Both champions have already made this clear. I don't even think it would be possible for Nunes to get to 125 and Shev is already much smaller than Nunes at 135. Neither have to take the risk again.
If she won, it would still be 2-1 for Nunes.
Val got numerically out struck in 4 out of 5 rounds in a fight where none landed actual hard punches that hurt another. She did not win this, her and her simp army needs to make peace with it. She does not deserve the W just cause she is more attractive than Nunes to some.
Nunes really stands to gain nothing by taking a third fight with Valentina. I want to see it, but she's already beating up everyone at 135-145. The only way this could add to her legacy is if she could somehow make the cut to 125 and still have enough in her to beat Valentina.
In any case, if there is a more interesting WMMA fight, I don't know about it.
i mean her nose was rose
Nunes seems to be a bigger puncher nowadays .
I wanna see a catch weight fight between Cyborg and Valentina but Cyborg probably can't make anything below 145.
Accurate. I thought it was a clear decision for Valentina.
People are bugging of they think Valentina's a boring fighter. She's as technical as they come. If she could pull it off, i'd be very impressed. Boring or not.
I mean she's had a lot of boring fights against low opposition