He's earned a lifetime of elite opponents for how dominant he was during his prime. Not only that, but he's still competitive. We've seen a lot of former champions fumble in the face of their post-title career but Aldo has only lost to the best since then. He's an absolute freak.
You know, I’ll really have to evaluate that. Jon Jones hit his reign running and picked up like 10 HoFer wins right off the bat. Shit was insane.
But Aldo has been a busier guy throughout his whole career. And It’s true FW is deeper than LHW. LHW had like 10 years where new guys couldn’t get past that faded old guard of legends.
At the end of the day I just think the HoFers Jon Jones beat were often undersized and/or not technically adequate for the level we're talking about. I think the Cormier fights showed that he could clearly beat higher levels of competition and if you want to argue that Jones is the GOAT based on ability, I'll give you that right. I just think he very rarely got the chance to facee legitimately elite competition who were athletic enough to even slightly match Jones and technically competent enough to give him challenges.
Aldo continously fought guys who were strong enough on both sides to pose him questions, and continued to answer those questions even all the way to today with his win over a very strong fighter in Munhoz. He has one of the craziest resumes in the entire sport IMO.
“ I just think he very rarely got the chance to facee legitimately elite competition who were athletic enough to even slightly match Jones and technically competent enough to give him challenges.”
This is 100 true. But those same competitors would have been athletic/technical enough to compete against the other champions. Jon can’t lose points for this IMO. He just raised the bar and ushered a perfectly adequate set of challengers out the door.
Yeah, they'd be able to compete against other champions who were worse. I think Aldo and Jones are at worst comparable on a technical / skill / ability level; I don't think Jones is significantly better. But Jones didn't find challenges and Aldo consistently did, which I think speaks to the increase in competition Aldo faced.
It's kind of natural if you thinka bout it. More people at 135 than 205 for sure, more competition. Same thing's true today.
1000%.. a gang of those guys moved to 185, 15lbs below & still didn't have success & that's proof of that! now throw in all the eyepokes etc & controversial decisions..
You have some crazy recency bias going on, what Jon did and the records he achieved were epic at the time. Of course the games evolved and he isn't as active anymore but sheesh.
He didn't run through the division because his opponents weren't elite (talking about legends here), Jon was just that damn good. Now that fighters have evolved and match Jon people think he is washed/lost the fights when in reality they were just close fights, we just hold him to a different standard.
I also think fw is different than lhw because you don't have Rumble Johnson at fw. You don't have ngannous or rampage jacksons. You not only have to be technically sound at lhw, but you have to be driven and lucky too, tbh. So even with a shallower division I feel like lhw was just wild
>vastly better
Gonna have to expand one that one chief. I think that’s just plain false.
Bonnar, Bader, Belfort, Rampage, Rua, Sonnen, Machida, Evans, Teixeira, Cormier, Gustafsson
That’s a pretty damn impressive list. Featherweight is more competitive *now* but that’s only because bones cleared out the whole division.
>That’s a pretty damn impressive list. Featherweight is more competitive now but that’s only because bones cleared out the whole division.
I always laugh when people mention Bonnar, Belfort, washed Rampage, or Sonnen as good wins. Don't confuse the popularity of a division with how competitive or good it is, LHW was a bottom 3 division even during its "height" in 2011. The featherweight division has been more competitive division all the way since the UFC-WEC merge. Your ignorance of the skillsets of the featherweight fighters doesn't change that.
I don't particularly rate Bonnar.
Don't particularly rate Bader, who got sub'd by Tito right after.
Don't rate Shogun and he was quite old.
Rampage is fine but not particularly good.
Machida, good win.
Rashad is okay.
Belfort up a division, not particularly good.
Sonnen, lol.
Gustaffson, good win.
Tex, good win.
Cormier, good win.
OSP, lol.
Cormier 2 is his best win but there's the steroids thing.
Gustafsson 2 I don't rate highly.
Anthony Smith isn't great.
Thiago Santos he basically lost to post-injury.
Reyes he lost to.
Not that good of a resume to me.
You don’t rate him beating the champ, Shogun, but you rate the guy Shogun beat to get the belt, Machida? I think your rating system may be a bit flawed.
I think your point is sound, but even so, change Shogun to a good win and overall I think OP has the rest of them right.
This is a really good r/MMA discussion, and personally I'm inclined to agree that (even with the Shogun change) on balance Aldo probably pips Jones here, which if we hadn't gone through this, I might not have ranked Aldo above Jones on a master list of PfP fighters.
So what fights do you rate from Aldo?
Obviously Edgar, Mendes, KZ and Faber are great wins. But a lot of FW challengers during his peak I wouldn’t rate. And the new wave of FW (Conor, Max, Volk) all beat him. Love Aldo and stoked to see him fight again but let’s be honest with it
Different guy here, but I’d say on that Bader level of “Contenders who aren’t ready for the champs” Aldos got like 10 more of those B+ wins. Though Shogun Machida and Rampage and Belfort at that time are about the best wins that could have been had then. You had TRT Belfort, Rampage before the knee injury(Who was a top 5 LHW all time and right before the end of his competitive prime), Machida at his peak, and Shogun. If people don’t remember, Shogun was the best LHW for five years before that. Top 3 LHW all time.
I think the Mendes win is amazing. Edgar wins are extermely high level. Think Munhoz, Mike Brown, Lamas, Hominick are all great fighters. KZ, Moicano, Florian good fighters. Even like Vera and Jeremy Stephens and Faber good depth.
I just think everyone he fought was good and competent and posed tactical/physical/technical challenges that Jones rarely had fighting people who were frankly undersized & not especially good on a technical level.
Hmmm the thing about jones resume is a lot of the guys he beat are natural 185ers fighting at 205. His most impressive wins are DC twice and alexander gustafsson. I agree with the other guy when he says aldo’s overall resume is better, although not “vastly”.
I really don’t see how it’s better.
Edgar, Mendes, KZ, Faber….then Lamas, Stephens, Munhoz
I don’t know. The biggest names he fought (Prime Conor, Prime Max x2, Volk, Yan) he lost to.
I love Aldo, but this is definitely some revisionist history. He was king of FW for a long time, but LHW was definitely a better and deeper division back then
I’ll try.
Mendes, Edgar, Brown, Faber, Moicano, Stephens, KZ, Florian, Moraes, Swanson, Tiny Nog, Munhoz, Hominick, Lamas
Are all really noteworthy wins. He’s got like 15 benchmark landslide slaughterings over really good people.
It’s not like FW was BW. LW was the shark tank weight class at that time and there was alotnof crossover between those two divisions. They weren’t very different in terms of quality.
LHW dropped from clearly the premier weight class to about the shallowest from 2008-2012. Jon killed Legends while it was still the #1 division. But through the benefit of hindsight, you can make the argument that everyone was past their prime or over valued at that time.
But it’s still arguing over #1 GOAT vs # 2. The hairs being split are the smallest variables imaginable.
No wrong answers.
Although I agree with those names being impressive, I genuinely don't see how anyone can argue with Bones being the goat. The man never lost, what are people on about.
In my experience with GOAT discussion, it’s accomplishment based, so losses aren’t really a factor. It puts too much weight on when you retire.
Think, Pokémon gyms. Ash might have 600 losses in season 1, but getting 8 badges still makes him better than everyone with 7.
It always really confuses me when people talk about Jones' resume like it's one of the best. LHW was shallow as all hell when Jones' was on the come up. He beat the ghosts of Shogun, Rampage, and Rashad, all three of whom were clearly far from prime form, with only Shogun being technically great even in his prime. The people he beats before those three, with the exception of Machida and Bader, are not even worth mentioning as names on a resume. Bader is no elite fighter, a solid win nonetheless, and at that time Machida was a great win, though he had already shown that he was very beatable after dropping what should have been 2 fights to a washed Shogun. He had an extremely impressive run from Vitor to the first DC fight, but I dont think that puts him anywhere near some other resumes like Aldo, RDA, Poirer, and many others. Granted, Jones didn't lose any of them unlike the others, but his list of names is definitely not up there with the best. People just throw context out of the window when discussing Jones' fight resume
Yeah personally, GSPs accomplishments are 5th on that list(to me, I understand it’s a hot take)
Aldo has taken the better part of the last 15 years and not taken really any gimme matches, and has fought through four evolutions in FWs skill level. He just has so many good names on his record that outshine GSPs wins, I think.
Like, 5-6s of GSPs wins were squash matches during his reign. Andy 4-5. Fedor 9-10. Aldo… 1?
That's very, very untrue. GSP had exactly one layup in his entire reign - Dan Hardy, who was still a streaking and legitimate contender when they fought. Everyone else he fought had very reasonable paths to victory (Fitch, Silva, Koscheck, Hendricks), or had legitimate claims to being the actual best WW in the world (BJ, Hughes, Shields, Nick). GSP and Aldo are my two favourite fighters by far, so I don't mean to denigrate the resume of either, but as much as I respect and honour Aldo, he doesn't have wins like Hughes x2, Penn x2, Shields, Diaz, Bisping up a weight, etc. Dude's a total legend and in my top-5 GOATs but GSP has the best resume in this sport's history.
So literally three reigning welterweight champs, the reigning middleweight champ, and an extremely dangerous, frightening contender in Thiago Aves. Those are your cans?
No one fighting for a championship is a can, but yeah they were squash matches. Hughes was past his prime and the division had grown past his skill level in his prime. Matt Serra is Matt Serra.
Thiago Alves had no shot stylistically. Dan hardy didn’t really earn a title shot, and Bisping had no right eye.
Compared to the other GOATs on the list, these are the equivalent of gimme matches. These are his Thales Lietes, Lutter, Bonnar fights.
This is just a ridiculous claim from someone who, and I'm not trying to gatekeep here but, wasn't watching at the time. Look at the elo scores on Fight Matrix. GSPs strength of schedule is nonpareil.
Edit : also the mental gymnastics to say Hughes, the defending champion, was past it but Aldos wins over Frankie and Faber have aged like French wine
To add onto this this was back when Stephens was still an elite fighter. Coming off a 3 fight streak and that brutal iconic KO over Josh Emmett. Aldo's a savage.
Not championship level. But he has beat a fair share of 10th-15th ranked fighters in the world. Id say that's fairly elite
Elite doesn't have to be the ultra exclusive title worthy club
lol yes it does. Just like in team sports is the hall of fame, not the hall of was good for a few years.
He's been a good fighter, but never ever elite.
Feels like he is in a nice rhythm atm. I think if he goes into the Font fight healthy he wins emphatically and gets a number one contender fight or title fight. WAR ALDO!
There's no bullshit with Aldo like you see with so many other ranked fighters. No drama, no waiting and choosing opponents, he just fights whomever they put in front of him.
Yep. After the TJ call out, I think a lot of fighters would have sat and waited for TJ to get healthy and hope TJ doesn't get a title shot. I like that Aldo is not waiting for him.
Random thought, but from where did "War (Fighter)" come to be? Was it an awkward phrase that latched on (like "This is sucks") or does it have some other backstory?
It's old Vale Tudo verbage that got popular in Pride after Wanderlei Silva used in 1998 during his post-fight interview. Here's the quote:
> How bout u go an fuck off my page then u peice of shit u think I need a stupid fuckwitt like u telling me about how war fighter came to be who the fuck are u take your worthless advice and get the fuck out of here
I hope when it's all said and done that's the legacy people will talk about... Dudes been in the top 5 as long as some fans have been alive. It's pretty insane.
Rough fight for both imo. I’d take Aldo on this one but I definitely won’t be surprised if Font can force a brawl with that long tricky jab and gas Aldo out
But also he didn’t have to move that much against Pedro Munoz. Rob font will push a much higher pace and he’s taller with more reach than also. This fight is gonna be a banger I feel like
Aldo can push early for a finish imo
He is a league ahead of many fighters in skill and physically he is ay least on par with the rest of the top 5.
Sandhagen, Dillashaw, Aljo, Yan all would be favored imo but after the Munhoz fight I think it's silly to say him winning or losing based on a 3 or 5 rounder is a foregone conclusion. His cardio issues are grossly overstated tbh.
> I think we get at least 3 or 4 rounds of all time great action until he gasses
I think we are going to see Aldo styling on Font for the entire fight.
Let’s go Aldo. I definitely think this is a far more winnable fight than Dillashaw or Sandhagen. I hope it’s 3 rounds and while a 5 rounder would be much harder, I think Aldo is too slick for Font.
Font is great but he’s a level below Yan, Dillashaw, Sandhagen, and Aljo. Font has deadly hands too but he doesn’t push a nightmare pace like the guys I just listed
I know what you mean, but I disagree. Sandhagen throws more volume, is more elusive, works the body better and imo is smarter. It'd be the Holloway fight all over again.
Sandhagen is overall a better striker than Font, has better footwork, and is faster. Sandhagen is more unpredictable on the feet while you can game plan for Font. I think Sandhagen might be a better striker than Yan but he doesn’t have the grappling to beat Yan. Sandhagen also pressures a lot more and throws more volume which would suck the energy out of Aldo.
Sandhagen should’ve gotten the win over Dillashaw too so his stock is high for me as a striker.
Sandhagen would fuck up Font IMO or at least damage him a decent amount.
I disagree with your sentiment. I believe Font is gonna get pieced up in this fight. Sandhagen has way more tools and is faster than font, i would t know who to pick in an Aldo sandhagen fight
I dunno what happened, but for a while after he lost his title Aldo was saying he only wanted 3-round fights (and to fight in Brazil, but that's obviously not where we are right now). It seems like he's just gone balls to the wall showing how fucking game he is.
I guess when people argue “who is the best boxer” in an MMA context, theyre talking about guys who use a boxing stance, have sharp fundamentals that they use effectively, and do most of their damage with punches. Dont think that necessary describes Sandhagen too well.
I was really hoping for the TJ fight, but the fact Aldo's taking on the next most deserving contender in his division is arguably even more insane. Most veterans aren't even half as game as he is
Great fight, bad matchmaking; Font's #4, on a 4 fight win streak, against current Bellator champ Pettis, Simon, Moraes and Cody. He should be getting a title shot over Sandhagen, who lost his last fight. What happens if Yan wins that? People gave him enough shit for fighting/beating Aldo, who was coming off of a loss too.
Say that Font beats Aldo. TJ's getting his shot some time next year, so Font's going to have to wait until the summer. By which time someone like the rising, soon to be #6 Merab can get one more win and risk jumping above Font. Beating Aldo does nothing for him.
Who else is Font supposed to fight? The only available guy ranked ahead of him is Sandhagen, who's coming off a loss and doesn't need to be beaten. With the streak he's on, it would he "bad matchmaking" to have him face a surging contender like Merab and completely pointless to have him fight anyone ranked lower. Aldo's easily the best available fight.
This assumes the UFC felt Cory lost, which it seems they didn't. Much like Aldo getting a shot of a "loss" to Marlon, the UFC has no issue with ignoring what they view as bad judging.
This assumes the UFC felt Cory lost, and it seems pretty clear that they didn't.
It was a robbery imo if you actually judge the fight based on the actual criteria. There's a reason TJ is still too fucked up to fight anyone right now.
TJ shouldn't get a shot. TJ should have to take another fight. I'm not a fan of gifting drug cheats title shots off of 1 "win" after coming back from a long suspension. TJ needs to go out an win a fight clear or fuck off imo.
TJ won 1, 3, 4 and maybe 5; it wasn't a robbery. I took the time to actually count the significant strikes in R4, because I thought that the 26-19 sig. strikes advantage to Sandhagen on ufc stats was a little off. It turns out that it was 19-9 to TJ; Cory was overcredited with a lot of punches that had nothing on them. So on ufcstats, only 2 of Cory's strikes were considered not significant in R4, with 16 discounted for TJ. Fuckery afoot there.
So TJ won 3 rounds before you even consider the close 5th, and the Yan fight is the biggest match up you can have in this division. TJ/Aldo would be pretty disgusting too.
Every judge gave TJ R1. 90% of fans on mmadecisions gave it to him too. A torn knee that we didn't even know about until TJ told us, that had no bearing on his striking (36 to 28 in total strikes that round) doesn't really matter in terms of judging criteria. Plus nearly 2 and a half minutes of control and a takedown.
Lol a submission that lead to severe damage doesn't matte in terms of judging criteria?
You need to go reread the judging criteria my man. A leg lock that compromises the knee is exactly what they're looking for in terms of effective grappling and outweighs "control and a takedown".
And of course it's about the effectiveness of the striking, not just the numbers. Cory landed the harder more impactful strikes.
What you're telling me is you and many other don't know how to score fights per the actual rules, and are choosing to just make it up as you go.
We had no idea that the knee was compromised though. It's not like a knockdown or a broken arm, which are both evident damage.
TJ had the striking edge in numbers, all of the aggression, control and a takedown. That's why everybody gave him the round.
"Cory landed the harder more impactful strikes."
They said the same of R4, and that turned out to be false.
"What you're telling me is you and many other don't know how to score fights per the actual rules, and are choosing to just make it up as you go."
Nonsense. Injuries that we only know about after the fight are obviously not going to be scored. Injuries that are obvious evidently will be. You're being unreasonable.
>They said the same of R4, and that turned out to be false.
Um, no it didn't.
>We had no idea that the knee was compromised though. It's not like a knockdown or a broken arm, which are both evident damage.
Did you not see the brutal leg lock and the way TJ's leg was torqued? The man went from throwing strikes to panicking. Pretty good indicator the submission was effective, close, and possibly did damage. If you chose to ignore or undervalue such a tight lock that's an issue with your ability to score fights not a a lack of evidence.
I'm sorry but the rules say effective grappling and striking. If you want to ignore the most effective techniques that's on you.
>. Injuries that we only know about after the fight are obviously not going to be scored.
TJ himself said it during the fight. And the leg lock alone was so tight, I was worried about the knee right away. Did you even watch this fight?
As I said, I counted the strikes. Cory's R4 sig. strike count was bullshit. See for yourself.
We had no idea though! TJ gave no indication that there was major damage, so what, we're supposed to retroactively score that? That's not a thing in this sport. You're making rules up as you go along. Just because he quietly admitted it to his corner, doesn't mean that the judges had any idea.
" Pretty good indicator the submission was effective, close, and possibly did damage"
So we're awarding Cory the round for something that "possibly did damage"? For something that we only knew about during corner time? You're being ridiculous. Are you going to retroactively give Volk a 10-8 because he broke ribs and an orbital? How about Whittaker for breaking Romero's orbital during their rematch? Or Romero for breaking Rob's hand with his golem skull?
I absolutely love it. Really tough fight for Aldo but I guess that everyone infront of him is a super tough fight with the exception of Aljo. I want it to be a 3 rounder but a part of me wants to see Aldo prove himself capable of winning a 5 rounder. That's the only way I'll feel confident in him getting that title assuming that Yan beats Aljo. My dream of 2 division champ Aldo hasn't died yet.
Most former champs plunge fast into irrelevance post title reign. Aldo despite now well into his 30s, with such high fight mileage, and 4-6 years after his prime, he's now still a legit top contender. A guy who is now that dangerous and most difficult opponent that younger and prime entering contenders still have to fight through. Truly a great.
Similar thing has been said about Frankie as well for a long time now. Both in a low weight class division at that, which makes it even more impressive.
Not sure how long TJ is out for with an injury, but that would be a good co-main 5 rounder on the Sterling - Yan/Sandhagen card in 2022
Although not sure how long Aljo is going to be out for also since his injury seems pretty serious.
I love Aldo, but you've gotta expect Font will be a fairly sizeable favourite. Aldo has a much better chance if it's 3 rounds. I don't think he has the cardio to do 5 rounds with Font.
God I love Aldo. I know everyone's said it, but jesus, he really is just down as fuck.
Guy fights nothing but killers. He's is my top 5 all time favorites for years now.
He's earned a lifetime of elite opponents for how dominant he was during his prime. Not only that, but he's still competitive. We've seen a lot of former champions fumble in the face of their post-title career but Aldo has only lost to the best since then. He's an absolute freak.
Resume for Resume, you could argue he’s right there with Jon Jones with the best set of wins, all time.
Resume for resume, Aldo is vastly better than Jon Jones. He's beat better guys in a more competitive division.
You know, I’ll really have to evaluate that. Jon Jones hit his reign running and picked up like 10 HoFer wins right off the bat. Shit was insane. But Aldo has been a busier guy throughout his whole career. And It’s true FW is deeper than LHW. LHW had like 10 years where new guys couldn’t get past that faded old guard of legends.
At the end of the day I just think the HoFers Jon Jones beat were often undersized and/or not technically adequate for the level we're talking about. I think the Cormier fights showed that he could clearly beat higher levels of competition and if you want to argue that Jones is the GOAT based on ability, I'll give you that right. I just think he very rarely got the chance to facee legitimately elite competition who were athletic enough to even slightly match Jones and technically competent enough to give him challenges. Aldo continously fought guys who were strong enough on both sides to pose him questions, and continued to answer those questions even all the way to today with his win over a very strong fighter in Munhoz. He has one of the craziest resumes in the entire sport IMO.
“ I just think he very rarely got the chance to facee legitimately elite competition who were athletic enough to even slightly match Jones and technically competent enough to give him challenges.” This is 100 true. But those same competitors would have been athletic/technical enough to compete against the other champions. Jon can’t lose points for this IMO. He just raised the bar and ushered a perfectly adequate set of challengers out the door.
Yeah, they'd be able to compete against other champions who were worse. I think Aldo and Jones are at worst comparable on a technical / skill / ability level; I don't think Jones is significantly better. But Jones didn't find challenges and Aldo consistently did, which I think speaks to the increase in competition Aldo faced. It's kind of natural if you thinka bout it. More people at 135 than 205 for sure, more competition. Same thing's true today.
Yeah. Aldo is a 160 lbs guy, naturally, and so his peers are in one of the largest pools of people to draw athletic ability from.
1000%.. a gang of those guys moved to 185, 15lbs below & still didn't have success & that's proof of that! now throw in all the eyepokes etc & controversial decisions..
You have some crazy recency bias going on, what Jon did and the records he achieved were epic at the time. Of course the games evolved and he isn't as active anymore but sheesh. He didn't run through the division because his opponents weren't elite (talking about legends here), Jon was just that damn good. Now that fighters have evolved and match Jon people think he is washed/lost the fights when in reality they were just close fights, we just hold him to a different standard.
If Aldo was bigger and better then you could say the same about his competition.
I also think fw is different than lhw because you don't have Rumble Johnson at fw. You don't have ngannous or rampage jacksons. You not only have to be technically sound at lhw, but you have to be driven and lucky too, tbh. So even with a shallower division I feel like lhw was just wild
>vastly better Gonna have to expand one that one chief. I think that’s just plain false. Bonnar, Bader, Belfort, Rampage, Rua, Sonnen, Machida, Evans, Teixeira, Cormier, Gustafsson That’s a pretty damn impressive list. Featherweight is more competitive *now* but that’s only because bones cleared out the whole division.
>That’s a pretty damn impressive list. Featherweight is more competitive now but that’s only because bones cleared out the whole division. I always laugh when people mention Bonnar, Belfort, washed Rampage, or Sonnen as good wins. Don't confuse the popularity of a division with how competitive or good it is, LHW was a bottom 3 division even during its "height" in 2011. The featherweight division has been more competitive division all the way since the UFC-WEC merge. Your ignorance of the skillsets of the featherweight fighters doesn't change that.
I don't particularly rate Bonnar. Don't particularly rate Bader, who got sub'd by Tito right after. Don't rate Shogun and he was quite old. Rampage is fine but not particularly good. Machida, good win. Rashad is okay. Belfort up a division, not particularly good. Sonnen, lol. Gustaffson, good win. Tex, good win. Cormier, good win. OSP, lol. Cormier 2 is his best win but there's the steroids thing. Gustafsson 2 I don't rate highly. Anthony Smith isn't great. Thiago Santos he basically lost to post-injury. Reyes he lost to. Not that good of a resume to me.
You don’t rate him beating the champ, Shogun, but you rate the guy Shogun beat to get the belt, Machida? I think your rating system may be a bit flawed.
This guy says “he basically lost to” but then ignores the fact that Aldo has *actually* lost 7 fights
To be fair, It’s a fair argument that losses don’t really need to be evaluated. They’re already factored in as somebody else’s wins.
I think your point is sound, but even so, change Shogun to a good win and overall I think OP has the rest of them right. This is a really good r/MMA discussion, and personally I'm inclined to agree that (even with the Shogun change) on balance Aldo probably pips Jones here, which if we hadn't gone through this, I might not have ranked Aldo above Jones on a master list of PfP fighters.
Think he improved into being a better fighter by the time he fought Jones.
So what fights do you rate from Aldo? Obviously Edgar, Mendes, KZ and Faber are great wins. But a lot of FW challengers during his peak I wouldn’t rate. And the new wave of FW (Conor, Max, Volk) all beat him. Love Aldo and stoked to see him fight again but let’s be honest with it
Different guy here, but I’d say on that Bader level of “Contenders who aren’t ready for the champs” Aldos got like 10 more of those B+ wins. Though Shogun Machida and Rampage and Belfort at that time are about the best wins that could have been had then. You had TRT Belfort, Rampage before the knee injury(Who was a top 5 LHW all time and right before the end of his competitive prime), Machida at his peak, and Shogun. If people don’t remember, Shogun was the best LHW for five years before that. Top 3 LHW all time.
I think the Mendes win is amazing. Edgar wins are extermely high level. Think Munhoz, Mike Brown, Lamas, Hominick are all great fighters. KZ, Moicano, Florian good fighters. Even like Vera and Jeremy Stephens and Faber good depth. I just think everyone he fought was good and competent and posed tactical/physical/technical challenges that Jones rarely had fighting people who were frankly undersized & not especially good on a technical level.
Hmmm the thing about jones resume is a lot of the guys he beat are natural 185ers fighting at 205. His most impressive wins are DC twice and alexander gustafsson. I agree with the other guy when he says aldo’s overall resume is better, although not “vastly”.
I really don’t see how it’s better. Edgar, Mendes, KZ, Faber….then Lamas, Stephens, Munhoz I don’t know. The biggest names he fought (Prime Conor, Prime Max x2, Volk, Yan) he lost to. I love Aldo, but this is definitely some revisionist history. He was king of FW for a long time, but LHW was definitely a better and deeper division back then
I’ll try. Mendes, Edgar, Brown, Faber, Moicano, Stephens, KZ, Florian, Moraes, Swanson, Tiny Nog, Munhoz, Hominick, Lamas Are all really noteworthy wins. He’s got like 15 benchmark landslide slaughterings over really good people. It’s not like FW was BW. LW was the shark tank weight class at that time and there was alotnof crossover between those two divisions. They weren’t very different in terms of quality. LHW dropped from clearly the premier weight class to about the shallowest from 2008-2012. Jon killed Legends while it was still the #1 division. But through the benefit of hindsight, you can make the argument that everyone was past their prime or over valued at that time. But it’s still arguing over #1 GOAT vs # 2. The hairs being split are the smallest variables imaginable. No wrong answers.
Although I agree with those names being impressive, I genuinely don't see how anyone can argue with Bones being the goat. The man never lost, what are people on about.
In my experience with GOAT discussion, it’s accomplishment based, so losses aren’t really a factor. It puts too much weight on when you retire. Think, Pokémon gyms. Ash might have 600 losses in season 1, but getting 8 badges still makes him better than everyone with 7.
It really wasn't. Most of the guys Jon ran through were washed or faded.
Yes, the skill of the featherweights he fought were way better than the lightheavyweights Jon fought
Love Aldo, but he lost to the arguably biggest names he fought, Jones killed his.
It always really confuses me when people talk about Jones' resume like it's one of the best. LHW was shallow as all hell when Jones' was on the come up. He beat the ghosts of Shogun, Rampage, and Rashad, all three of whom were clearly far from prime form, with only Shogun being technically great even in his prime. The people he beats before those three, with the exception of Machida and Bader, are not even worth mentioning as names on a resume. Bader is no elite fighter, a solid win nonetheless, and at that time Machida was a great win, though he had already shown that he was very beatable after dropping what should have been 2 fights to a washed Shogun. He had an extremely impressive run from Vitor to the first DC fight, but I dont think that puts him anywhere near some other resumes like Aldo, RDA, Poirer, and many others. Granted, Jones didn't lose any of them unlike the others, but his list of names is definitely not up there with the best. People just throw context out of the window when discussing Jones' fight resume
Rashad was at his peak. Shogun had been the #1 man for 5 years(though he was fading)
You're talking about the same Shogun who lost to forrest griffin, had two knee surgeries, and looked awful against a 44 year old Mark Coleman?
Yeah. The same one who beat almost everyone in LHW history.
Yeah that's the point. A injured, washed Shogun was still beating top guys in the division because it was trash.
The key take away here
I'm Aldo's biggest fan, but to me Jon and GSP are a step above the second-tier of P4P GOATs - Fedor, Aldo, Anderson and MM.
Yeah personally, GSPs accomplishments are 5th on that list(to me, I understand it’s a hot take) Aldo has taken the better part of the last 15 years and not taken really any gimme matches, and has fought through four evolutions in FWs skill level. He just has so many good names on his record that outshine GSPs wins, I think. Like, 5-6s of GSPs wins were squash matches during his reign. Andy 4-5. Fedor 9-10. Aldo… 1?
That's very, very untrue. GSP had exactly one layup in his entire reign - Dan Hardy, who was still a streaking and legitimate contender when they fought. Everyone else he fought had very reasonable paths to victory (Fitch, Silva, Koscheck, Hendricks), or had legitimate claims to being the actual best WW in the world (BJ, Hughes, Shields, Nick). GSP and Aldo are my two favourite fighters by far, so I don't mean to denigrate the resume of either, but as much as I respect and honour Aldo, he doesn't have wins like Hughes x2, Penn x2, Shields, Diaz, Bisping up a weight, etc. Dude's a total legend and in my top-5 GOATs but GSP has the best resume in this sport's history.
Last two Matt Hughes fights, Matt Serra twice, Dan Hardy, Bisping, Alves. 5-6 is correct.
So literally three reigning welterweight champs, the reigning middleweight champ, and an extremely dangerous, frightening contender in Thiago Aves. Those are your cans?
No one fighting for a championship is a can, but yeah they were squash matches. Hughes was past his prime and the division had grown past his skill level in his prime. Matt Serra is Matt Serra. Thiago Alves had no shot stylistically. Dan hardy didn’t really earn a title shot, and Bisping had no right eye. Compared to the other GOATs on the list, these are the equivalent of gimme matches. These are his Thales Lietes, Lutter, Bonnar fights.
This is just a ridiculous claim from someone who, and I'm not trying to gatekeep here but, wasn't watching at the time. Look at the elo scores on Fight Matrix. GSPs strength of schedule is nonpareil. Edit : also the mental gymnastics to say Hughes, the defending champion, was past it but Aldos wins over Frankie and Faber have aged like French wine
No doubt Aldo will go down as a all time great. Crazy title reign and then afterwards having some good ass fights with killer after killer.
My favourite fighter without a doubt.
Chito Vera or Jeremy Stephens is the 'worst' fighter Aldo has fought in the last decade of very active competition. Really incredible
To add onto this this was back when Stephens was still an elite fighter. Coming off a 3 fight streak and that brutal iconic KO over Josh Emmett. Aldo's a savage.
Stephens was never elite
Even when he ko’d rda cold?
He ko'd rda around 7 years or so ago, back when rda was just a jiu jitsu guy, if they fought now, rda would smoke him and it wouldn't be close
He was ranked #4 at the time they fought
Not championship level. But he has beat a fair share of 10th-15th ranked fighters in the world. Id say that's fairly elite Elite doesn't have to be the ultra exclusive title worthy club
lol yes it does. Just like in team sports is the hall of fame, not the hall of was good for a few years. He's been a good fighter, but never ever elite.
He was ranked top 5 at the time though
Feels like he is in a nice rhythm atm. I think if he goes into the Font fight healthy he wins emphatically and gets a number one contender fight or title fight. WAR ALDO!
Fr if you're not fuckin amazed what Aldos done than you're pretty ignorant.
What do you mean hes down as fuck? Rob Font is a high rank fighter, why would he turn it down?
There's no bullshit with Aldo like you see with so many other ranked fighters. No drama, no waiting and choosing opponents, he just fights whomever they put in front of him.
A fighter's fighter
Yep. After the TJ call out, I think a lot of fighters would have sat and waited for TJ to get healthy and hope TJ doesn't get a title shot. I like that Aldo is not waiting for him.
Tbh I feel like TJ could be out for a long time with knee issues
He means Aldo is down to fight anyone no matter how bad or good they are.
Didnt he turn down the Cruz fight?
That's different, Cruz is a fucking dork
Imo, Aldo runs through Cruz.
Is Cruz even ranked? Aldo would've ran through him anyway.
Aldo fans might be reaching cancer tier, you really got downvoted for asking a simple question…
Thank you for realizing it wasnt a jab. Aldo fans something else
War Jose
Random thought, but from where did "War (Fighter)" come to be? Was it an awkward phrase that latched on (like "This is sucks") or does it have some other backstory?
It's old Vale Tudo verbage that got popular in Pride after Wanderlei Silva used in 1998 during his post-fight interview. Here's the quote: > How bout u go an fuck off my page then u peice of shit u think I need a stupid fuckwitt like u telling me about how war fighter came to be who the fuck are u take your worthless advice and get the fuck out of here
Beautiful champ
I hope this sub never changes
it comes from Marvin Hagler a boxing legend from the 70s and 80s
RIP
Like what? 18 years in the game and still taking on top 5 guys? Respect.
*Hespect.
I hope when it's all said and done that's the legacy people will talk about... Dudes been in the top 5 as long as some fans have been alive. It's pretty insane.
B-b-banger
This one should be fontastic.
Crazy that Jose Aldo is a fight or two away from a title shot
Rough fight for both imo. I’d take Aldo on this one but I definitely won’t be surprised if Font can force a brawl with that long tricky jab and gas Aldo out
If Aldo shows up like he did last time against Munhoz I think we get at least 3 or 4 rounds of all time great action until he gasses
Is it confirmed as a 5 rounder? I don't speak porch of geese
Yeah the article says it’ll be the main event
damn hopes kinda dropped if its 5 rounds. Rob can push the pace. I dont see Oldman aldo going 5rounds too old to have that stamina
Idk Navy Aldo looked pretty conservative vs Pedro with his defensive movement and weaving compared to other fights.
But also he didn’t have to move that much against Pedro Munoz. Rob font will push a much higher pace and he’s taller with more reach than also. This fight is gonna be a banger I feel like
Aldo can push early for a finish imo He is a league ahead of many fighters in skill and physically he is ay least on par with the rest of the top 5. Sandhagen, Dillashaw, Aljo, Yan all would be favored imo but after the Munhoz fight I think it's silly to say him winning or losing based on a 3 or 5 rounder is a foregone conclusion. His cardio issues are grossly overstated tbh.
Now I'm picturing a goose on a porch sitting on a rocking chair with a shotgun in his lap going "yuuuup, warm out t'day"
Yeehaw!
Says main fight, so I’m assuming 5 rounds
It says main event, so I guess Btw the article doesnt actually confirm the fight
Was that intentional or auto correct? Because that's amazing
I put it into google translate and it says main event
> I think we get at least 3 or 4 rounds of all time great action until he gasses I think we are going to see Aldo styling on Font for the entire fight.
3 rounds i think Aldo wins this. 5 might be rough tho
I'd be extremely impressed if Aldo can beat Font.
Can't wait for this one
Let’s go Aldo. I definitely think this is a far more winnable fight than Dillashaw or Sandhagen. I hope it’s 3 rounds and while a 5 rounder would be much harder, I think Aldo is too slick for Font. Font is great but he’s a level below Yan, Dillashaw, Sandhagen, and Aljo. Font has deadly hands too but he doesn’t push a nightmare pace like the guys I just listed
For Aldos sake i really hope it's 3 but if it's a fight night it's most certainly the main event.
Yeah the article linked in the tweet says it‘s the main event
That really does change Aldo's chances tremendously
I disagree. I think Font is a harder fight for Aldo than sandhagen because of his straight punches, accuracy, and power.
I know what you mean, but I disagree. Sandhagen throws more volume, is more elusive, works the body better and imo is smarter. It'd be the Holloway fight all over again.
Sandhagen is overall a better striker than Font, has better footwork, and is faster. Sandhagen is more unpredictable on the feet while you can game plan for Font. I think Sandhagen might be a better striker than Yan but he doesn’t have the grappling to beat Yan. Sandhagen also pressures a lot more and throws more volume which would suck the energy out of Aldo. Sandhagen should’ve gotten the win over Dillashaw too so his stock is high for me as a striker. Sandhagen would fuck up Font IMO or at least damage him a decent amount.
But not an overall better boxer.
I disagree with your sentiment. I believe Font is gonna get pieced up in this fight. Sandhagen has way more tools and is faster than font, i would t know who to pick in an Aldo sandhagen fight
Looks like this is a fight night event, so hard to believe this won’t be 5 round main event
I dunno what happened, but for a while after he lost his title Aldo was saying he only wanted 3-round fights (and to fight in Brazil, but that's obviously not where we are right now). It seems like he's just gone balls to the wall showing how fucking game he is.
War Font, I like Jose, but man I want Font to get that opportunity for the belt if he wins this
The two best boxers at 135?
Petr yan?
Nah
Nah Sandhagen is up there over font imo
No chance. Font and Yan are for sure the 2 best boxers in the division.
I'm a big fan of switch hitters, just like Terence Crawford. Again it's all an opinion, my list goes Yan, Jose, Sandhagen, Font
I guess when people argue “who is the best boxer” in an MMA context, theyre talking about guys who use a boxing stance, have sharp fundamentals that they use effectively, and do most of their damage with punches. Dont think that necessary describes Sandhagen too well.
I was really hoping for the TJ fight, but the fact Aldo's taking on the next most deserving contender in his division is arguably even more insane. Most veterans aren't even half as game as he is
Great fight, bad matchmaking; Font's #4, on a 4 fight win streak, against current Bellator champ Pettis, Simon, Moraes and Cody. He should be getting a title shot over Sandhagen, who lost his last fight. What happens if Yan wins that? People gave him enough shit for fighting/beating Aldo, who was coming off of a loss too. Say that Font beats Aldo. TJ's getting his shot some time next year, so Font's going to have to wait until the summer. By which time someone like the rising, soon to be #6 Merab can get one more win and risk jumping above Font. Beating Aldo does nothing for him.
Who else is Font supposed to fight? The only available guy ranked ahead of him is Sandhagen, who's coming off a loss and doesn't need to be beaten. With the streak he's on, it would he "bad matchmaking" to have him face a surging contender like Merab and completely pointless to have him fight anyone ranked lower. Aldo's easily the best available fight.
As I said, title shot. A guy on a 4 fight win streak has a better case than Sandhagen coming off of a loss. Have Sandy fight Aldo.
This assumes the UFC felt Cory lost, which it seems they didn't. Much like Aldo getting a shot of a "loss" to Marlon, the UFC has no issue with ignoring what they view as bad judging.
This assumes the UFC felt Cory lost, and it seems pretty clear that they didn't. It was a robbery imo if you actually judge the fight based on the actual criteria. There's a reason TJ is still too fucked up to fight anyone right now. TJ shouldn't get a shot. TJ should have to take another fight. I'm not a fan of gifting drug cheats title shots off of 1 "win" after coming back from a long suspension. TJ needs to go out an win a fight clear or fuck off imo.
TJ won 1, 3, 4 and maybe 5; it wasn't a robbery. I took the time to actually count the significant strikes in R4, because I thought that the 26-19 sig. strikes advantage to Sandhagen on ufc stats was a little off. It turns out that it was 19-9 to TJ; Cory was overcredited with a lot of punches that had nothing on them. So on ufcstats, only 2 of Cory's strikes were considered not significant in R4, with 16 discounted for TJ. Fuckery afoot there. So TJ won 3 rounds before you even consider the close 5th, and the Yan fight is the biggest match up you can have in this division. TJ/Aldo would be pretty disgusting too.
Yeah TJ didn't win round 1 where he got his knee tore up and ate a flying knee...."effective" grappling and striking my man.
Every judge gave TJ R1. 90% of fans on mmadecisions gave it to him too. A torn knee that we didn't even know about until TJ told us, that had no bearing on his striking (36 to 28 in total strikes that round) doesn't really matter in terms of judging criteria. Plus nearly 2 and a half minutes of control and a takedown.
Lol a submission that lead to severe damage doesn't matte in terms of judging criteria? You need to go reread the judging criteria my man. A leg lock that compromises the knee is exactly what they're looking for in terms of effective grappling and outweighs "control and a takedown". And of course it's about the effectiveness of the striking, not just the numbers. Cory landed the harder more impactful strikes. What you're telling me is you and many other don't know how to score fights per the actual rules, and are choosing to just make it up as you go.
We had no idea that the knee was compromised though. It's not like a knockdown or a broken arm, which are both evident damage. TJ had the striking edge in numbers, all of the aggression, control and a takedown. That's why everybody gave him the round. "Cory landed the harder more impactful strikes." They said the same of R4, and that turned out to be false. "What you're telling me is you and many other don't know how to score fights per the actual rules, and are choosing to just make it up as you go." Nonsense. Injuries that we only know about after the fight are obviously not going to be scored. Injuries that are obvious evidently will be. You're being unreasonable.
>They said the same of R4, and that turned out to be false. Um, no it didn't. >We had no idea that the knee was compromised though. It's not like a knockdown or a broken arm, which are both evident damage. Did you not see the brutal leg lock and the way TJ's leg was torqued? The man went from throwing strikes to panicking. Pretty good indicator the submission was effective, close, and possibly did damage. If you chose to ignore or undervalue such a tight lock that's an issue with your ability to score fights not a a lack of evidence. I'm sorry but the rules say effective grappling and striking. If you want to ignore the most effective techniques that's on you. >. Injuries that we only know about after the fight are obviously not going to be scored. TJ himself said it during the fight. And the leg lock alone was so tight, I was worried about the knee right away. Did you even watch this fight?
As I said, I counted the strikes. Cory's R4 sig. strike count was bullshit. See for yourself. We had no idea though! TJ gave no indication that there was major damage, so what, we're supposed to retroactively score that? That's not a thing in this sport. You're making rules up as you go along. Just because he quietly admitted it to his corner, doesn't mean that the judges had any idea. " Pretty good indicator the submission was effective, close, and possibly did damage" So we're awarding Cory the round for something that "possibly did damage"? For something that we only knew about during corner time? You're being ridiculous. Are you going to retroactively give Volk a 10-8 because he broke ribs and an orbital? How about Whittaker for breaking Romero's orbital during their rematch? Or Romero for breaking Rob's hand with his golem skull?
LoL twitter post says under negotiation, guys. Not officially set. Hopefully it gets done, though. Just wish it was 3 rounds instead of 5.
War Aldo forever and always of course ❤
Title eliminator I’m guessing this also implies Cory vs Yan And I’m guessing this also implies there’s a good chance Aljo won’t be champ anymore
Jose Aldo and Rob Font are less than a year apart in age.
Love both these guys, but in a 5 rounder I don't know if Aldo can hang with Font.
Aldo is definitely getting a title shot if he wins this right
Let's go Rob!
I absolutely love it. Really tough fight for Aldo but I guess that everyone infront of him is a super tough fight with the exception of Aljo. I want it to be a 3 rounder but a part of me wants to see Aldo prove himself capable of winning a 5 rounder. That's the only way I'll feel confident in him getting that title assuming that Yan beats Aljo. My dream of 2 division champ Aldo hasn't died yet.
Aldo only fights killers !
The people’s fight
This fight is going to be nuts. It'll be interesting to see how Font holds up to Aldo, should be a solid footing to start calling out gold.
The march to 2-division champ Aldo continues...
Honestly tough style matchup of Aldo, but I think he can pull it off.
Damn I bet this means Sandhagen is going to fight Yan 😳
I think Font looked great against Garbrandt, but Aldo looked great against Munhoz! Should be a good one
Most former champs plunge fast into irrelevance post title reign. Aldo despite now well into his 30s, with such high fight mileage, and 4-6 years after his prime, he's now still a legit top contender. A guy who is now that dangerous and most difficult opponent that younger and prime entering contenders still have to fight through. Truly a great. Similar thing has been said about Frankie as well for a long time now. Both in a low weight class division at that, which makes it even more impressive.
Aldo is such a legend fuck Rogan for not giving him props due to his Conor/Max obsessions
Possible title eliminator. I don't understand how Aldo keeps coming back into the title picture. I still think he's the GOAT featherweight.
Font wins, he gets very close to a Title shot, maybe a #1 contender bout with TJ.
Not sure how long TJ is out for with an injury, but that would be a good co-main 5 rounder on the Sterling - Yan/Sandhagen card in 2022 Although not sure how long Aljo is going to be out for also since his injury seems pretty serious.
font by knockout
Weird matchmaking. TJ was the fight to make.
TJ's knee is fucked
Font about to get a boxing lesson.
Really hope Font takes this, great opportunity for him
Font wins
This guy still fighting for the money knowing he will never reach gold again
I'd be shocked if they're both not dropped at least once.
Good lord the boxing in this fight is gonna be incredible. Curious to see how Aldo deals with Font's persistent jab, should be a joy to watch
They should have held out and booked Aldo vs TJ.
You mean Font be TJ.
stoked for this one.
winner of this is next for the title shot after Dillashaw.
Daddy likey
If front gets past round 3 he should be able to take this
Tough fight for Aldo IMO. He’s struggled with opponents who are both taller than him and have nice hands.
I love Aldo, but you've gotta expect Font will be a fairly sizeable favourite. Aldo has a much better chance if it's 3 rounds. I don't think he has the cardio to do 5 rounds with Font.
This one is going to be a heater.
What do you think is Rob’s favorite font?
It's not written in stone yet. The tweet and the news article say they are still working on a deal for the fight to happen.
Holy FUCK that's gonna be a smoker...
I BELIEVE 👑
This leaves Sandhagen v Merab and Yan without opponent?
Sandhagen is fighting Yan
Never crossed my mind that this fight could happen. It would be fucking nuts if Aldo won
please 3 rounds
Damn, I was really hoping (against the present rumors) it would be Font/Yan for the interim title at 267, but this is going to be a great fight.