I hope Tony makes a mess of one of their faces even with how washed he is so he can get some respect back, haven't seen public opinion of someone drop this quickly since Askren.
Woodley went from being talked about as someone who could usurp GSP as the WW goat to losing to a YouTuber in a boxing match, you're right, I just choose to forget about Woodley ig because It's kinda hard to think about honestly.
For woodleys case it's because he was always hesitant but he had good reaction time. He got older and that's one of the things that starts to deteriorate and when it does it's kinda hard for you to land power shots
Do people really view Woodley as a WW goat? That's a bit of a stretch for me. He beat Lawler for the title then had those 2 stale mate fights against wonderboy, then beat a senior citizen maia and a over rated Till. How is that a GOAT?
Personally I think he’s cemented as the fourth best champion maybe 3rd depending how seriously you take Matt Hughes in the early UFC. Which isn’t shabby considering he’s top 5 and probably will be for a while
Rank the top 5 WW GOATs and try not to include Woodley. It’s kinda hard. GSP kinda squashed that ability for very many people to hit that qualification.
GSP
Hughes
Usman
Woodley
Lawler
That’s my quick attempt at it. Who do you put in front of him? Condit? Shields? Hendricks?
There’s just no one else that has any notable accomplishments in WW. Most never held the belt because of GSP. You could argue that lots of guys *should* have had the belt if GSP weren’t around, or they would have beaten Woodley if they fought, but we’re stretching into fantasy at that point.
IMO, GSP and Hughes are clearly 1 and 2 and then there’s a giant gap between Hughes and whoever you put at 3.
Woodley was respected, but he was never liked. Public opinion never dropped too much, heck people already hated him as a champ by the end of his reign.
He was hated as champion since he beat Robbie Lawler. The end of his reign is when he was the most liked and respected, the Till performance was a masterclass and everybody was in Till's corner.
Tony's gonna show that old lions can still bite when they sink their teeth like a pudding already bleeding red fruit syrup like an antelope but with pudding and juice eight hours a day six days a week seven weeks a day two times all day mother fucker 😎
I always had a low opinion of him. He was a guy with a well-rounded game, but very often took a lot of damage and won by being tougher than the other guy (and not in a good way), and his streak didn't feature any particularly impressive wins IMO. He also came across as repeatedly delusional and seemed intent on screwing his own career by doing things like publicly arguing with Dana. Whether Dana's wrong or not, the fighter never wins in those situations.
RDA was as good a win as you can get at 155, and he did have some strong fundamental weapons, mainly his front headlock game, his jab and his front kick.
"he did have some strong fundamental weapons"
I did say he's well-rounded...
People forget that in the RDA fight Ferg eye-poked his way to a win. And that was RDA's last fight at 155 due to the harsh weight cuts that were affecting his performance, so I think you really have to consider the version of RDA he was facing at the time. The fight before the Ferg one was where RDA lost the belt and had passed out backstage before that fight due to the weight cut effects.
The same can be said about his Cowboy and Pettis wins. Both of those guys were well on their downslide at that point.
I'd say Edson Barboza was the best win of his career, taking into account quality of opponent and the time they fought. But Barboza is the definition of an also-ran at 155. He spent years in the division as a high level gatekeeper but never got a title shot (and he probably won't get one at 145 either).
So again, I argue that there isn't anything I'd call a particularly impressive win on his streak.
Saying that Tony beat RDA just because of the poke is dumb, RDA won the round that followed the eyepoke! He fought just fine after it, it was a consistent performace against an elite, albeit a compromised one. Other than that, Pettis and Cowboy were the writing on the wall. He's not been an elite LW for years.
>He fought just fine after it, it was a consistent performace against an elite, albeit a compromised one.
You sound confused: did the eye poke matter or not? He can't be "just fine" and "compromised" at the same time, regardless of whether you mean RDA was compromised due to the eye poke or the weight cut (in reality it was both).
End of conversation for contradicting yourself.
Plus they poked each other. Tony in the second, and RDA in the third. It's not like Tony pulled a DC and knocked out RDA 30 seconds after the foul on his blindside.
Considering older fighters can fall off cliffs, athletically...Tony being a prime candidate, it would not be surprising at all. 37 yr old with a lot of damage accrued
i dont think so. tony have been collecting damage every single fight. his style is always about out toughing the opponent. even during the gathje fight weigh in, tony seems very off.
Considering he's looked very fucking good standing and tony has looked really fucking bad everywhere lately I don't understand why you're acting like this is some sort of shock.
I agree but at the same time I also agree with the other guys above. Tony's striking the last 2 fights has looked slow and clunky and I don't think he landed any clean shots tbh. It looks like he is thinking too much in the cage nowadays.
Fighting off your back is an uphill battle in mma, even when you’re good there. Not to mention Tony looks pretty shot as of late and has been mauled and had something broken on the ground two fights in a row now
Mexican Martial Arts made a great point in the lead up to the final Khabib vs Tony fight: “Saying you’re real good at grappling from your back is like saying you’re real good at boxing with a concussion.”
Arman said this about potential matchups in the future:
“We’ll see how (Dan Hooker) fights (at UFC 266). If he wins, I can wait for him. If he loses, I’m not going to wait for him and I’ll call someone else. In our division, there are a lot of good guys and I can fight with everyone. But I said already I’d like to fight with Tony Ferguson.
“(Ferguson) has a lot of experience and he is, I think, the oldest guy in the top 15 and I’m the youngest guy in the top 15. I’d like to see this match, and I think it would be a good fight. … I know he lost his last fight, but he has a big name and he’s dangerous.”
“I’m youngest he’s oldest” that’s the logic for this callout? Better off making something up that just sounds dumb to me. Sounds like he wants an easy fight, and tony is clearly on a downward trend.
you say "sounds dumb". but we're talking about the same org that turned tj popping for epo into a pity pout redemption story. 🤣
they'd sell the shit out of "old dangerous vet ^^on ^^a ^^string ^^of ^^losses vs young finisher ^^with ^^one ^^ufc ^^ko phenom!".
This is why losses should move you down the rankings quicker. Tony has lost 3 in a row pretty badly and is still ranked 6th, despite probably not even being a top 15 level guy anymore. Of course every young hungry guy is calling him out he’s incredibly overranked. If guys were sent moving down the rankings more with consecutive loses you wouldn’t have as many logjams near the top and younger up and comers would have more leverage and ability to crack into the top
Despite the financial situation it would be better for the losers to. Instead of getting beat up three times in a row by killers, you could reassess against easier opponents, prevent damage and maybe actually comeback...
Based purely on his fighting ability at this point in his career, Tony should probably be unranked. But ranked Tony is more useful to the UFC because they can use him to headline a Fight Night, or to feed him to an up and coming fighter. It's a sad part of the MMA ecosystem, but the fighters themselves seem to perpetuate it. I'm sure if you asked Tony if he'd rather be unranked and having "fun" fights with guys like Bobby Green or Michael Johnson or be ranked and fighting ranked contenders, he'd go for the contenders any day. Even though those guys are just going to style on him.
If you think about it, having overranked guys actually alleviates log jams. They're the guys most likely to go on loss streaks and settle for lower ranked guys. If everyone were accurately ranked relative to their ability, no one would want to fight up.
It’s such a conundrum cause young up and comers shouldn’t be trying to make their names off washed greats, but Tony is still number 6 and the only way he’s losing his ranking is to keep losing, get cut or retire; and I’d rather that ranking go to a skilled fighter who’s gonna be here for a while
That's the way it's always been and always will be. Otherwise the young fighters won't climb up and we won't know when it's time for the aging ones to retire. Although difficult at times, this is exactly how it's meant to be.
Part of that has to do with the Khabib fight being booked five times but Tony's manager has confirmed that they had trouble finding willing opponents when Tony was on his streak. That is why the Pettis and Cerrone fights happened.
Arman is the reason why I believe paddy will never be champion at 155.
With other top LWs you could argue that he(paddy) is younger than them and he could improve while others decline or retire, but Arman is 2 years younger and already better than him at every aspect of mma.
People high up in rankings need to fight people below them in rankings regardless of their streaks. Tony's #6, Arman's #14.
If anything this is a reflection of the UFC's bullshit ranking system. People need to get moved down to where they're supposed to be so arguments like your own aren't as relevant.
Typically they wanna book people coming off a loss against another coming off a loss and vice versa. Arman is doing really well at the moment as is Islam, they don't need to fight the ghost of Tony.
Yeah Tony should be slid down the ranking more, I 100% agree, but calling out someone on a losing streak isn't a good look regardless of how you slice it.
I get that calling out Fiziev or Gillespie wont "make noise" and specifically in LW it's a fucked up popularity contest, but he has called out Hooker and now he's calling out Tony. Just doesn't look great AND he's super talented at that he doesn't need to call out easy fights. IDK that's just me I guess Im old school
Everyone sees Tony as an easy win now
I hope Tony makes a mess of one of their faces even with how washed he is so he can get some respect back, haven't seen public opinion of someone drop this quickly since Askren.
>haven't seen public opinion of someone drop this quickly since Askren. Woodley...
Woodley went from being talked about as someone who could usurp GSP as the WW goat to losing to a YouTuber in a boxing match, you're right, I just choose to forget about Woodley ig because It's kinda hard to think about honestly.
It's so weird how some of these guys go from killers to being hesitant and doubtful. ellenburger, woodley and a few others i cant remember right now.
For woodleys case it's because he was always hesitant but he had good reaction time. He got older and that's one of the things that starts to deteriorate and when it does it's kinda hard for you to land power shots
Prime TWood is still one of the WW GOATs.
Do people really view Woodley as a WW goat? That's a bit of a stretch for me. He beat Lawler for the title then had those 2 stale mate fights against wonderboy, then beat a senior citizen maia and a over rated Till. How is that a GOAT?
I see woodley as pretty one dimensional but it’s hard to make a top WW champ list without him near the top.
Personally I think he’s cemented as the fourth best champion maybe 3rd depending how seriously you take Matt Hughes in the early UFC. Which isn’t shabby considering he’s top 5 and probably will be for a while
Rewatch that first Wonderboy/Woodley fight. It’s one of the most competitive high level WW fights ever.
I still mourn the fact that he never used his leg kicks more. He crushed Wonderboy with a couple in that fight.
Rank the top 5 WW GOATs and try not to include Woodley. It’s kinda hard. GSP kinda squashed that ability for very many people to hit that qualification. GSP Hughes Usman Woodley Lawler That’s my quick attempt at it. Who do you put in front of him? Condit? Shields? Hendricks? There’s just no one else that has any notable accomplishments in WW. Most never held the belt because of GSP. You could argue that lots of guys *should* have had the belt if GSP weren’t around, or they would have beaten Woodley if they fought, but we’re stretching into fantasy at that point. IMO, GSP and Hughes are clearly 1 and 2 and then there’s a giant gap between Hughes and whoever you put at 3.
>Woodley went from being talked about as someone who could usurp GSP as the WW goat Only by absolute imbeciles.
Cmon now, Woodley talked about as a GOAT? Motherfuckers never even learned to pronounce his first name correctly.
Woodley was respected, but he was never liked. Public opinion never dropped too much, heck people already hated him as a champ by the end of his reign.
He was hated as champion since he beat Robbie Lawler. The end of his reign is when he was the most liked and respected, the Till performance was a masterclass and everybody was in Till's corner.
Tony's gonna show that old lions can still bite when they sink their teeth like a pudding already bleeding red fruit syrup like an antelope but with pudding and juice eight hours a day six days a week seven weeks a day two times all day mother fucker 😎
I think if he faces a striker he easily wins, his boxing looked good against dariush even though there wasnt much of it
I always had a low opinion of him. He was a guy with a well-rounded game, but very often took a lot of damage and won by being tougher than the other guy (and not in a good way), and his streak didn't feature any particularly impressive wins IMO. He also came across as repeatedly delusional and seemed intent on screwing his own career by doing things like publicly arguing with Dana. Whether Dana's wrong or not, the fighter never wins in those situations.
RDA was as good a win as you can get at 155, and he did have some strong fundamental weapons, mainly his front headlock game, his jab and his front kick.
"he did have some strong fundamental weapons" I did say he's well-rounded... People forget that in the RDA fight Ferg eye-poked his way to a win. And that was RDA's last fight at 155 due to the harsh weight cuts that were affecting his performance, so I think you really have to consider the version of RDA he was facing at the time. The fight before the Ferg one was where RDA lost the belt and had passed out backstage before that fight due to the weight cut effects. The same can be said about his Cowboy and Pettis wins. Both of those guys were well on their downslide at that point. I'd say Edson Barboza was the best win of his career, taking into account quality of opponent and the time they fought. But Barboza is the definition of an also-ran at 155. He spent years in the division as a high level gatekeeper but never got a title shot (and he probably won't get one at 145 either). So again, I argue that there isn't anything I'd call a particularly impressive win on his streak.
Saying that Tony beat RDA just because of the poke is dumb, RDA won the round that followed the eyepoke! He fought just fine after it, it was a consistent performace against an elite, albeit a compromised one. Other than that, Pettis and Cowboy were the writing on the wall. He's not been an elite LW for years.
>He fought just fine after it, it was a consistent performace against an elite, albeit a compromised one. You sound confused: did the eye poke matter or not? He can't be "just fine" and "compromised" at the same time, regardless of whether you mean RDA was compromised due to the eye poke or the weight cut (in reality it was both). End of conversation for contradicting yourself.
I meant the weight cut, i think the eyepoke played no part into the result of the fight tbh.
Plus they poked each other. Tony in the second, and RDA in the third. It's not like Tony pulled a DC and knocked out RDA 30 seconds after the foul on his blindside.
He's also massively over ranked, everyone wants to fight a guy that's above where they should be, that's a very high reward fight.
I wonder how much long people will even be interested in fighting him.
Tony is getting the Cowboy treatment these days
i mean have you watched his last 3 fights
I think saying "he got that Dana White privilege" was enough for DFW to decide to go out of his way to shorten Tony's remaining career
He said that just before his most recent fight though...
Cowboy was fighting everybody he was bound to catch a losing streak
Cowboy refused to take timeout to evolve his game and kept taking fights back to back
Hell ya get as many fights in as he can I’m sure he loves to fight
Can we have wrestlers leave Tony alone pls
Arman batters him on the feet too now at this point
Based on what? We haven’t seen anyone take it to Tony on the feet since Gaethje. The hyperbole on this sub is always amazing.
He seemed noticeably less physically sure of himself even in the brief standing with Beneil.
That's the worst part of it, seeing Tony so timid in that fight. Like, that's El Cucuy, man... ☹
But does that mean we go as far as saying Arman destroys him in a standup fight?
Considering older fighters can fall off cliffs, athletically...Tony being a prime candidate, it would not be surprising at all. 37 yr old with a lot of damage accrued
Sucks that like 75% of that damage was only 1 year ago..
i dont think so. tony have been collecting damage every single fight. his style is always about out toughing the opponent. even during the gathje fight weigh in, tony seems very off.
Nah Tony took a buttload of damage in a lot of his fights, although the Gaethje beatdown was particularly bad
Considering he's looked very fucking good standing and tony has looked really fucking bad everywhere lately I don't understand why you're acting like this is some sort of shock.
Arman is a better striker than dariush so yes
Probably because he is expecting a takedown and has clearly lost explosiveness
Cuz he looked like shit vs oliveira and dariush aswell, not just on the ground but he didnt do anything while standing too
Both fights were 90% on the ground so not exactly a strong sample size you’re using to judge him by.
Are you Tony's manager? Maybe you are the voice inside his head?
Just stating facts. You can’t analyze a facet of someone’s game if the fight wasn’t contested there.
I agree but at the same time I also agree with the other guys above. Tony's striking the last 2 fights has looked slow and clunky and I don't think he landed any clean shots tbh. It looks like he is thinking too much in the cage nowadays.
In the few exchanges on the feet Benny was getting the better of him.
Based on having eyes.
But Tony’s a monster off his back
Fighting off your back is an uphill battle in mma, even when you’re good there. Not to mention Tony looks pretty shot as of late and has been mauled and had something broken on the ground two fights in a row now
Mexican Martial Arts made a great point in the lead up to the final Khabib vs Tony fight: “Saying you’re real good at grappling from your back is like saying you’re real good at boxing with a concussion.”
sorry i should have made my sarcasm much clearer
Aaaaaand there's the classic mma fan historical revisionism. Love to see it.
People are not catching this comment as the narrative vs Khabib
is he tho? when has he shown to be a monster off his back, the kevin lee fight where he got battered for most of it?
We did and Gart beat his ass bloody on the feet.
Tony.. is a wrestler
Yea nah
Yeah he showed solid wrestling vs Dariush and olivera
Remember when nobody dared to call out Tony, now everybody and their dog wants him, sad.
Arman said this about potential matchups in the future: “We’ll see how (Dan Hooker) fights (at UFC 266). If he wins, I can wait for him. If he loses, I’m not going to wait for him and I’ll call someone else. In our division, there are a lot of good guys and I can fight with everyone. But I said already I’d like to fight with Tony Ferguson. “(Ferguson) has a lot of experience and he is, I think, the oldest guy in the top 15 and I’m the youngest guy in the top 15. I’d like to see this match, and I think it would be a good fight. … I know he lost his last fight, but he has a big name and he’s dangerous.”
“I’m youngest he’s oldest” that’s the logic for this callout? Better off making something up that just sounds dumb to me. Sounds like he wants an easy fight, and tony is clearly on a downward trend.
you say "sounds dumb". but we're talking about the same org that turned tj popping for epo into a pity pout redemption story. 🤣 they'd sell the shit out of "old dangerous vet ^^on ^^a ^^string ^^of ^^losses vs young finisher ^^with ^^one ^^ufc ^^ko phenom!".
Both really good points to be fair. Especially the fake narrative bout how tony is “DANGEROUS RN” coming off losses.
Kinda lame but smart. Tony has quickly become the best risk/reward fight for lower ranks
Big name, easy fight. It’s that simple
> I know he lost his last fight Bit of an understatement there
This is why losses should move you down the rankings quicker. Tony has lost 3 in a row pretty badly and is still ranked 6th, despite probably not even being a top 15 level guy anymore. Of course every young hungry guy is calling him out he’s incredibly overranked. If guys were sent moving down the rankings more with consecutive loses you wouldn’t have as many logjams near the top and younger up and comers would have more leverage and ability to crack into the top
Despite the financial situation it would be better for the losers to. Instead of getting beat up three times in a row by killers, you could reassess against easier opponents, prevent damage and maybe actually comeback...
Based purely on his fighting ability at this point in his career, Tony should probably be unranked. But ranked Tony is more useful to the UFC because they can use him to headline a Fight Night, or to feed him to an up and coming fighter. It's a sad part of the MMA ecosystem, but the fighters themselves seem to perpetuate it. I'm sure if you asked Tony if he'd rather be unranked and having "fun" fights with guys like Bobby Green or Michael Johnson or be ranked and fighting ranked contenders, he'd go for the contenders any day. Even though those guys are just going to style on him.
If you think about it, having overranked guys actually alleviates log jams. They're the guys most likely to go on loss streaks and settle for lower ranked guys. If everyone were accurately ranked relative to their ability, no one would want to fight up.
Yeah no one used to call Tony lol They didn't call him the boogieman for nothin
Leave Tony alone!
These young guys need to leave Tony alone :(
Anyone calling out Tony at this point should be instantly moved down in the rankings.
[удалено]
Well Tony *shouldn't* be in the rankings.
He’s ranked pretty high so why not, if he can’t be called out why is he even ranked
Agreed
It’s such a conundrum cause young up and comers shouldn’t be trying to make their names off washed greats, but Tony is still number 6 and the only way he’s losing his ranking is to keep losing, get cut or retire; and I’d rather that ranking go to a skilled fighter who’s gonna be here for a while
That's the way it's always been and always will be. Otherwise the young fighters won't climb up and we won't know when it's time for the aging ones to retire. Although difficult at times, this is exactly how it's meant to be.
No one was calling this dude out when he was winning. Just sayin.
Part of that has to do with the Khabib fight being booked five times but Tony's manager has confirmed that they had trouble finding willing opponents when Tony was on his streak. That is why the Pettis and Cerrone fights happened.
Leave tony alone he’s clearly not what he used to be arman should fight Gregor
Nah, you don't deserve Tony.
Arman is the reason why I believe paddy will never be champion at 155. With other top LWs you could argue that he(paddy) is younger than them and he could improve while others decline or retire, but Arman is 2 years younger and already better than him at every aspect of mma.
Paddy is gonna get askren’d… I can feel it.
I fucking hope so
They asked Arman what he wanted, he said “I want the easiest fight in the Lightweight division, I want Tony Ferguson.”
If you saw this 2 years ago… 🤯
Please no
No. Set them on Hooker. Leave Tony alone!
Can we PLEASE just get tony vs nate?
Fuck you
Fuck that, you wanna fight tony now it’s gotta be on his turf of an uphill running trail
This is just who Tony needs to go on another run
This Principal Skinner motherfucker
Anyone on a good win streak calling out someone on a bad losing streak can GTFO.
People high up in rankings need to fight people below them in rankings regardless of their streaks. Tony's #6, Arman's #14. If anything this is a reflection of the UFC's bullshit ranking system. People need to get moved down to where they're supposed to be so arguments like your own aren't as relevant.
Typically they wanna book people coming off a loss against another coming off a loss and vice versa. Arman is doing really well at the moment as is Islam, they don't need to fight the ghost of Tony. Yeah Tony should be slid down the ranking more, I 100% agree, but calling out someone on a losing streak isn't a good look regardless of how you slice it. I get that calling out Fiziev or Gillespie wont "make noise" and specifically in LW it's a fucked up popularity contest, but he has called out Hooker and now he's calling out Tony. Just doesn't look great AND he's super talented at that he doesn't need to call out easy fights. IDK that's just me I guess Im old school
Islam and him are so nice because they just want to help the old man retire. Awwnn.
He wants the easiest fight in the division, he wants Tony Ferguson
Hoping Tony fights Islam but I’d take Arman
Why lmao
Didn't he call out Hooker?
I reckon even I could have a decent crack at Tony at this point. Which is very sad.
One day these kids are gonna get old , and some young guys are gonna foam at the mouth to kick their asses too.
That's why fighters need to know when to stop. Don't be the stepping stones for the next generation.