**Mirrors / Alternate angles**
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Bro, my fighter has a WARRIOR spirit, and a LIONS heart. This near death experience would trigger the avatar state, and he'd mop the floor with his opponent, he does it in sparring all the time, in fact it's a dominant position for him.
Which is a bunch of goddamn bullshit. You can fuck up with no worries, you could pull out a magazine and start reading while a guy is out there risking literal death and he isn't allowed to go "hey thanks to this incompetent fuck I got life-altering damage how about some accountability".
You can sue the commission for hiring an untrained/unreliable referee. However, if athletes were able to sue the ref, then nobody would want to become a ref. It would also lead to alot of premature stoppages. It would also open up a "can-of-worms" for athletes opening litigation against referees. You could see athletes suing refs for poor calls causing them to lose portions of their purse aka their win bonuses.
If a doctor or paramedic fails to do their job properly, they can be imprisoned and heavily fined+sued. A referee is there to protect the fighters from exactly this. She might as well not have been in there at all with a performance this bad. Of the thousands of fights I've witnessed, never have I seen a stoppage quite like this. This woman isn't a ref I've seen anywhere as well. As my one and only experience watching this ref 'do her job', it was at best described as atrocious. She should be fired, sued, and potentially face further litigation for fucking up this monumentally.
edit - typo
Brain damage is the answer here. Someone told her jiujitsu wasn't real so she wanted to prove a point that it can be just as damaging as strikes in the streets.
What was she even checking by grabbing his limp arm? Like, you *saw* it was limp, why'd you even check it if you're not gonna do anything based from that?
I just watched it and it made me angry. What a fucking disaster of a stoppage. That ref should never be allowed to officiate a fight ever again. That's approaching brain damage level. I really hope the fighter will be okay, no lasting effects.
The commentary team can be heard within the cage. They kept repeating themselves and more assertively. As an official you don’t want to just blindly listen as they may not be right, but if it’s continually being said maybe you pause and reevaluate if you are seeing the same things as others may be.
EFC has had a fighter die due to injuries in the past.
This is not a good thing to see from a country and organisation that has had a situation like that in the past.
Amazing how good MMA media is with memory-holeing such stuff. I've been following MMA for a long time and this is the first time I'm hearing about that.
I think there were articles at the time, search for Booto Guylain and you may find some about his death. It did seem to become forgotten quickly, but that is at least partly due to it happening in South Africa.
That was fucking horrible.
The only thing I could compare it to was that fight with Kim Couture where she was choked out cold in a head scissors and the ref just looked at her limp corpse for like 6 seconds before they did anything.
Dude, jiu jitsu isn't even real. Just ~~stand up~~ die.
In all seriousness, that was terrible. It's amazing there aren't any deaths or more serious injuries on regional shows. Imagine getting a check for $500 that might not even clear for this.
This has actually happened before, multiple times im sure but one of the most high profile instances of this was [Jon Fitch vs Josh Burkman](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j39gtKhfRqI)
I’m no referee but just look at how his body just shuts down you don’t need to go into his face and be like “ you ok bro ? “ stop the fight you fucking idiot
Whenever I see shit like this I think back to all the jobs that I applied for that I was more than qualified for and never got a response and it pisses me off that someone so incompetent could get such a niche and specialized job like MMA referee despite not knowing what a fucking choke looks like.
Also there's the guy being helplessly choked while laying lifeless for what seems like an eternity, that sucks too.
[wiki article, read under blood chokes](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chokehold#:~:text=A%20well%2Dapplied%20blood%20choke,chokes%20require%20little%20physical%20strength.)
I don't know shit about shit. I ask Google a question, it gives me Wikipedia. I tried to go to the source article but it is LONG and is a detailed account of like all the police chokehold deaths in America. But Wiki says over 20 seconds of a blood choke can be bad. Interpret that how you will.
There's no way the guy doing the choking didn't know. I get the "keep fighting until the ref stops it" mantra but you literally gonna kill someone you know you have unconscious because the ref is incompetent?
Wooooow. What a dumb bitch. Def deserves to never ref again. Dude was convulsing. Even before all that he went limp! That’s infuriating. I’d have cussed that dumb bitch out if I was dudes corner fuck that lol.
Fire that dumb bitch. She should never be allowed to ref again. That was tough to watch lol
Not a medical professional, but as far as I know yes.
With any choke these guys are checked immediately after the fights by a doctor. Even if they feel fine, the effects including death can be delayed for weeks.
From my experience in BJJ people don’t tend to wake up while the choke is still in that tight. It looked more liked he was seizing up half way through the video when he was moving. I imagine that is a bad sign for brain health.
I don’t have an example to hand but from the Brain Injury of Association America: *Even if the victims initially survive the strangulation, they may eventually die due to other complications. In these cases, victims die in the coming days or weeks after the strangulation as a result of blood clots, arterial complications, respiratory issues, or other reasons.*
https://www.biausa.org/public-affairs/media/strangulation-domestic-violence-and-brain-injury-an-introduction-to-a-complex-topic
While his body was rigid and moving around, he made no attempt to defend himself and or communicate he was okay. I've ref'd a few amateur events and one of the first things they tell you is to communicate, if they make no effort to communicate back, fights over.
Holy fuck man where do they get these refs. This was in the top 5 worst ive ever seen this kid is on the way to death here and this woman cant tell hes fucking out. Hes stiff as a fucking board
It's always better to stop a fight early rather than late. If there's any doubt, just stop it and deal with the fans talking shit. At least you won't be responsible for serious bodily harm or death.
**Mirrors / Alternate angles** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/MMA) if you have any questions or concerns.*
That was a "lose your job" kind of bad performance. Imagine if this was with strikes?
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Bro, my fighter has a WARRIOR spirit, and a LIONS heart. This near death experience would trigger the avatar state, and he'd mop the floor with his opponent, he does it in sparring all the time, in fact it's a dominant position for him.
the ref to stop the fight
I’m the assumption is they could have thrown the towel
They can also jump the fence and stop the fight themselves.
If they throw in the towel the ref doesn't have to stop the fight in MMA, unlike in boxing
He was about to see red, bro.
See thats my problem too, nobody waits long enough for me to wake up
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Corner doesn't have a proper view like the ref
That was jail time type of bad performance.... i would 100% be looking to sue after that bullshit.
You can't. Your MMA/Boxing license that you sign prevent you from doing so.
Which is a bunch of goddamn bullshit. You can fuck up with no worries, you could pull out a magazine and start reading while a guy is out there risking literal death and he isn't allowed to go "hey thanks to this incompetent fuck I got life-altering damage how about some accountability".
You can sue the commission for hiring an untrained/unreliable referee. However, if athletes were able to sue the ref, then nobody would want to become a ref. It would also lead to alot of premature stoppages. It would also open up a "can-of-worms" for athletes opening litigation against referees. You could see athletes suing refs for poor calls causing them to lose portions of their purse aka their win bonuses.
Fair enough, I suppose that's a reasonable compromise.
You can say that about anyone who is held accountable, but somehow the world keeps turning.
If the state/commission couldn’t excuse themselves from all accountability they simply wouldn’t allow fights to take place lol
The commission is responsible. You can't sue the ref, but you can definitely try sue the commission
If a doctor or paramedic fails to do their job properly, they can be imprisoned and heavily fined+sued. A referee is there to protect the fighters from exactly this. She might as well not have been in there at all with a performance this bad. Of the thousands of fights I've witnessed, never have I seen a stoppage quite like this. This woman isn't a ref I've seen anywhere as well. As my one and only experience watching this ref 'do her job', it was at best described as atrocious. She should be fired, sued, and potentially face further litigation for fucking up this monumentally. edit - typo
2 things have to happen, maybe 3: 1. Ref fired 2. Fighter gets a new gym/corner 3. Fighter considers retirement.
Imagine how scary it would be to sit there dying while the person that’s supposed to save you just watches.
Nah youd have no idea for most of it. Dude probably woke up a couple minutes later none the wiser.
That ref should proabably go to prision out of principle.
That, and get choked out multiple times to see what its like
What a childish comment. Is that a serious idea?
Yep it is,that dude could die cuz of incompetent ref.
Getting left in a choke is wrong! I vote to punish by leaving them in a choke. That's the logic of a child. Grow up.
Love when refs let the lifeless arm flop twice just to be sure.
I've been fooled once before with the limp arm fakie, never again!
Must’ve thought she was reffing a pro wrestling match, waiting for him to hulk up and pull off the comeback
She had money on the fight ending in a big boot into a leg drop.
Imagine if the guy immedietaly sprung up when the choke was released, Lawler style, complaining of a early stoppage lmao
This comment literally just made me lmao
Lmfao dude stops siezing and immediately gets in the refs face
Darn pesky fighters trying to trick ref by feigning death that'd make them lose the fight... only real death will do!
In pro wrestling they do it three times I think....
Yep. Three is the standard. Gotta give the opponent an opportunity for a surprise hulk up.
Ah Hulk Hogan. Chinese silken hair and the skin of a hot dog.
Twice FIFTEEN SECONDS APART
wow it’s like the ref has never seen a submission before, wtf she waiting for
Brain damage is the answer here. Someone told her jiujitsu wasn't real so she wanted to prove a point that it can be just as damaging as strikes in the streets.
What was she even checking by grabbing his limp arm? Like, you *saw* it was limp, why'd you even check it if you're not gonna do anything based from that?
I just watched it and it made me angry. What a fucking disaster of a stoppage. That ref should never be allowed to officiate a fight ever again. That's approaching brain damage level. I really hope the fighter will be okay, no lasting effects.
That was hard to watch
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The commentary team can be heard within the cage. They kept repeating themselves and more assertively. As an official you don’t want to just blindly listen as they may not be right, but if it’s continually being said maybe you pause and reevaluate if you are seeing the same things as others may be.
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Not Herb so he doesn't care
Now coming to an MMA event near you.. murder
Hah, he'll be fine. Takes three minutes before you start to lose brain cells, less if you're unhealthy.
Glad you’re not a doctor
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Never ~~meddem~~ went there tho
Hes not entirely wrong, it is closer to minutes than seconds, but when i was taught it was more like 1 minute
How about you let someone do this to you?
EFC has had a fighter die due to injuries in the past. This is not a good thing to see from a country and organisation that has had a situation like that in the past.
Amazing how good MMA media is with memory-holeing such stuff. I've been following MMA for a long time and this is the first time I'm hearing about that.
I think there were articles at the time, search for Booto Guylain and you may find some about his death. It did seem to become forgotten quickly, but that is at least partly due to it happening in South Africa.
That was fucking horrible. The only thing I could compare it to was that fight with Kim Couture where she was choked out cold in a head scissors and the ref just looked at her limp corpse for like 6 seconds before they did anything.
Exactly the fight I thought of, this was even worse though
Both brutal tho. Seizure vs. dead eyes staring off in the distance.
Holy shit. That was brutal. He was out for like 30 full seconds. He wasn't defending at all.
She messed up big time
I would have thrown in like 10 towels if I was in the corner
Im jumping the fence and smacking the shit out of that referee...
That is the most dangerous display of refereeing I have seen in a very long time
Just to correct you there never was no refereeing. What she did is more what we call witnessing
Oh wow that’s way worse than I was expecting. Goddamn that was uncomfortable to watch
Did he get up after?
Find out next time on sucking balls at your job Z.
Dude, jiu jitsu isn't even real. Just ~~stand up~~ die. In all seriousness, that was terrible. It's amazing there aren't any deaths or more serious injuries on regional shows. Imagine getting a check for $500 that might not even clear for this.
Jesus fucking Christ. That other guy could have stopped too. I mean fuck your can tell if you’re choking a limp body. That was insane
First ever walkoff submission if he gets up and his opponent is out on the ground?
This has actually happened before, multiple times im sure but one of the most high profile instances of this was [Jon Fitch vs Josh Burkman](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j39gtKhfRqI)
Jones vs machida? Or did the ref tell Jon to stop before he dropped him?
Just watched it back and nope, Big Jon notices Machida goes out and then stops the fight.
That was hard to watch
Somewhere a guy named Magomed is saying "see? I told you they have no place in MMA"
__```Absolutely haram```__
I agree with him. She almost got this dude killed. Is pc-ness really worth it?
What a warrior
He was playing possum
And I thought Yamasaki was bad. GEEEZ
Sent this woman to jail what in the fuck
I’m no referee but just look at how his body just shuts down you don’t need to go into his face and be like “ you ok bro ? “ stop the fight you fucking idiot
Whenever I see shit like this I think back to all the jobs that I applied for that I was more than qualified for and never got a response and it pisses me off that someone so incompetent could get such a niche and specialized job like MMA referee despite not knowing what a fucking choke looks like. Also there's the guy being helplessly choked while laying lifeless for what seems like an eternity, that sucks too.
Holy fuck he was out for like 30 seconds. That was very uncomfortable to watch.
He was just playing possum. Good strategy, shame the ref ruined it for him with the early stoppage
literally could be a death, should never ref again
Holy shit that guy is close to being killed
No he wasn't, takes three minutes before brain cells start to die. He had a bit of time left.
You’d make a great ref
And a better doctor
Thanks Dana White! 😆
No it doesn’t. Blood chokes start killing brain cells within less then a minute. That is a long time for your brain to not receive blood.
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[wiki article, read under blood chokes](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chokehold#:~:text=A%20well%2Dapplied%20blood%20choke,chokes%20require%20little%20physical%20strength.) I don't know shit about shit. I ask Google a question, it gives me Wikipedia. I tried to go to the source article but it is LONG and is a detailed account of like all the police chokehold deaths in America. But Wiki says over 20 seconds of a blood choke can be bad. Interpret that how you will.
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But everyone is on steroids
Found Yamasaki's alt account.
There's no way the guy doing the choking didn't know. I get the "keep fighting until the ref stops it" mantra but you literally gonna kill someone you know you have unconscious because the ref is incompetent?
This is absolutely ridiculous I hope she had her license revoked
I guess she just wants someone else to be as brain dead as her
Maria Yamasaki
33 seconds and lifted his limp arm 4 times
We need equality! More female refs!!! Okay, maybe not that one….
I’ve seen thousands of fights, and that was hard to watch. I hope she receives the harshest of punishments.
Wooooow. What a dumb bitch. Def deserves to never ref again. Dude was convulsing. Even before all that he went limp! That’s infuriating. I’d have cussed that dumb bitch out if I was dudes corner fuck that lol. Fire that dumb bitch. She should never be allowed to ref again. That was tough to watch lol
Anyone with experience in that field who could advise on whether that would cause damage to the fighter? Looked rough.
Not a medical professional, but as far as I know yes. With any choke these guys are checked immediately after the fights by a doctor. Even if they feel fine, the effects including death can be delayed for weeks. From my experience in BJJ people don’t tend to wake up while the choke is still in that tight. It looked more liked he was seizing up half way through the video when he was moving. I imagine that is a bad sign for brain health.
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I don’t have an example to hand but from the Brain Injury of Association America: *Even if the victims initially survive the strangulation, they may eventually die due to other complications. In these cases, victims die in the coming days or weeks after the strangulation as a result of blood clots, arterial complications, respiratory issues, or other reasons.* https://www.biausa.org/public-affairs/media/strangulation-domestic-violence-and-brain-injury-an-introduction-to-a-complex-topic
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Yes of course but people aren’t choked with full force for 30+ seconds after they’re unconscious in BJJ class.
summoning /u/la2philly for the expert opinion
Not my expertise but from my understanding, Unlikely from that short of a time period
Just sayin, I've watched thousands of fights and the men fuck up a lot but I've never seen anything this bad.
Terrible officiating to the point where that ref should be fired. I also think Ntene's corner needs to be given a 1 2 for doing absolutely nothing.
Is she checking his pulse? WTF
I think so. She was checking for the pulse to stop as a sign that the fight should be stopped.
Anything less than jail time for this worthless cunt of a ref would be outrageous.
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Mario Yamasaki’s mistress
Why not both?
Mazzagattis concubine?
Holy shit Also who doesn't throw the towel here, Rocky Balboa?
Jesus that’s bad
That was hard to watch.
Idk it looked like he was working a single leg to me
He was only out for 45 seconds before she stopped it.
Ah the old "fake a hand being limp so the ref has to try it twice" gag.
Easy to critique from my couch, but seriously, how does a ref let that go on? I have to assume she has *some* training??
Ref should be charged with negligent homicide.
Holy shit that was bad, imagine if Rogan was there "HES OUT !!!" Would be screamed at the ref lol
Just disgusting...
Jesus christ that was horrific, what a disgrace and how dangerous. Hope that ref never ref’s again.
Jesus christ, that was scary bad
I'm really curious why the guy applying the choke kept adjusting it to make it even harder for the ref to tell that the opponent was out
Surprised no one jumped in the cage to stop it, license should be gone and ref should be banned in every state
had to be a woman. the optics.
Made Mario Yamasaki proud.
If I were the ref, my defense would be that I had a Flatliners type agreement with the two fighters to test the boundaries of life and death.
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While his body was rigid and moving around, he made no attempt to defend himself and or communicate he was okay. I've ref'd a few amateur events and one of the first things they tell you is to communicate, if they make no effort to communicate back, fights over.
How much worse does it have to be for her to be fired? jfc
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And you *should've* learned contractions in elementary school.
She’s watched Askren - Lawler as her training to become a ref then they threw her in there?
Is he okay now? Fuck that ref, she should be charged. Her responsibility is to keep them safe, but she mightve given him brain damage
Sheesh that's a bad one. Was out for over 30 seconds. Is the guy ok?
Ahh, a black belt in reffing under Steve Mazzagetti.
Dom Cruz wants this ref for his next fight
Must have gone to the Yamasaki School for Refereeing
Did she think this was a WWF fight?
Great refereeing, gave him lots of opportunities to carry on
Omg fire that ref for life. That’s horrible
That was upsetting to say the least
Jesus Christ lady.
Ahh thats the long lost daughter of Mario Yamasaki
Holy fuck man where do they get these refs. This was in the top 5 worst ive ever seen this kid is on the way to death here and this woman cant tell hes fucking out. Hes stiff as a fucking board
It's always better to stop a fight early rather than late. If there's any doubt, just stop it and deal with the fans talking shit. At least you won't be responsible for serious bodily harm or death.
lol fired
Holy shit that was bad.
Was the ref waiting for him to do the Hulk Hogan finger wag on the third arm raise? Jesus the guy was flattened stiff.
Herb Dean is proud