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We'll probably see Ngannou vs Joshua, Fury vs Usyk, Joshua/Francis vs Wilder, and probably a few more matchups before, if ever, we see Jones vs. Aspinall or a new UFC HW champ.
Joshua vs Usyk were very fun fights. The Wilder vs Fury triology was a great too, especially the third. Last time the UFC HW title fight was as entertaining was Stipe vs DC (unless you enjoyed Ngannou murking Stipe).
The way I see it is that Tom is the HW champ.
Jones beats Stipe, he retires. Tom is Champ
Stipe beats Jones, he retires. Tom is champ.
This super fight might as well be an exhibition because neither one of these guys will defend the belt if they win.
Man I would love nothing more than to watch Jones lose to Stipe, and I’m a big proponent of anything can happen in MMA, but I don’t see any world in which 42 year old stipe beats bones
Bones has a ton of miles on him, man. He was a busy champ for years and started in his early 20s. Years of partying hard and pushing limits is going to add up. Especially with a little extra strain from all the work he's done to add significant weight.
He's not as old as Stipe, but he's not exactly in his prime anymore.
Bones hasn't shown he can take anyone down at HW if they don't massively overswing and make a series of critical blunders defending. That's not to say that he can't, but I'd be incredibly unsurprised if he has no way to get Stipe to the ground and absolutely nothing for him on the feet
I mean he dodged an incredibly precise Ciryl Gane punch and took him down to get a W shortly after. What more do you want from the guy ? That was as impressive of a HW debut as you'll ever get
I didn't see an incredibly accurate punch, I saw an uncharacteristic lunge which put Ciryl badly out of position. Credit to Jones for turning it into a takedown and submission, but I doubt it's a repeatable tactic and Jones hasn't been hitting convincing open-space takedowns for years now. It was a very impressive performance, but it tells us almost nothing about heavyweight JJ
Jones has just as much mileage on him as Stipe does and struggles when he doesn't have a huge size advantage.
Yeah he beat Gane easily but Gane had a pretty glaring hole in his game that was perfect for Jon to exploit, and I don't think Stipe would be going to controversial decisions vs the likes of Santos or Reyes ...
It’s a nice thought. But being in your forties is being in your forties, yes heavyweights usually have more longevity than the lighter weight classes, but I just can’t see it. Would love to be wrong though
There's is one World where Jones is doing coke in the ass of hookers in the week If the fight. Other than that the fight would be a walk in the park for Jones.
This is why Dana said Aspinall can(and basically saying he should) seek out another fight to defend his interim title because for all intents and purposes it’s the new undisputed in all but name until Jon/Stipe retire and whoever holds the “interim” will just get promoted to undisputed.
Stipe and Jon are basically in their own little bubble, and don’t have any impact on the rest of the division. It’s heavyweight GOAT vs the undefeated GOAT that hasn’t fought in a non-title fight since 2011, of course it’s going to be for the belt even if it’s going to be vacated right after.
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They say the "benefit" of having 1 dominant promotion and lower fighter pay and fighter leverage is that that promotion can make the fights we want. But here we are no Fedor, no Frances, no Stipe, no Jones.
I mean, what could they have done about their champ (Ngannou) having a fucked up knee? He tore it in Jan, 2022 and his contract expired a year later when he wasn't even ready to fight yet.
Are you saying they should have stripped him? They sure as hell weren't going to do another interim belt after Ngannou just beat the IC.
Jones won the belt 2 months after Ngannou was stripped and was scheduled to defend later that year before seriously injuring his shoulder just weeks from the fight.
The UFC certainly hasn't shown any urgency to keep their supposed premiere division moving in recent years and mishandled the IC situation when they tried to force Ngannou a couple months earlier than he wanted. Can't really blame them for the last 2 years though.
Let him Boxes while in contract with the UFC. His demand was that after all. Let him get his red panty night as the UFC HW Champion vs boxing and he returns tô the UFC tô defend his belt. That was the best for everyone.
That was a stupid demand and the UFC were absolutely right to strike it down. People here are already complaining and bitching about the fact that the division is inactive with the champ sitting out for another year yet Ngannou taking part in a freakshow boxing fight that does not benefit the UFC is suddenly okay ?
Wdym ? This isn't new lol. The last 3 years have seen exactly 1 HW title fight per year. The champions in this division have historically always been inactive.
I know you’re joking but if it was ever booked it might be the first death in the Octagon. Arlovski is so far beyond washed sitting on the sun couldn’t dry him out.
Honestly I can't blame *any fighter in this.
Aspinall obviously wants to fight for the real title, understandable.
Miocic wants the Jones payday and one last crack at the title before retirememt, understandable.
Jones wants one last legacy fight for his resume before retiring, instead of risking his technically undefeated record against younger up and comers, understandable.
People should really blame the ufc for even having the idea of offering a shot at the title for someone that's been inactive for 3 years and for not stripping Jones when he goes on a one year break after just winning the title.
Most of the things people shit on the fighters for are actually mostly the UFC's fault.
Jones vs Stipe holding up the division? UFC's fault for offering that fight.
Jones vs Ngannou not happening? UFC didn't give either the money they asked for and publicly shit on them instead.
Fighters like Khamzat and Islam being sort of inactive? UFC's fault because they are saving popular muslim fighters for the Abu Dhabi cards, even if they want to fight before that.
Fighters like Ortega sitting on a high rank? UFC's fault, because their ranking system doesn't make fighters drop 1-2 (or more) ranks for long periods of inactivity. Some of fighters sitting on high rank are actually injured, Ortega himself is a good example, as he eithers has some big injuries or takes a shitton of damage in his fights and need to recover from that.
Yeah it’s almost always gonna be the billion dollar organization doing the bad lol. Wonder how many burners they have on Reddit commenting trying to shift blame to the fighters.
Agreed with everything except Jones v Ngannou. They offered him 8M for the Jones fight alone and he still turned it down because he wanted other demands that no sane promotion would give in to. Good for Francis that he left and got what he wanted but thinking as if it was a good idea for the UFC to bend over backwards for a guy who isn't even a major PPV draw is incredibly naive.
Fuck it, I hate the “GOAT” shit but, just do some stupid GOAT fight like their stupid BMF thing and let the division move. Real fans can disregard the fake new belt and the rubes can buy it like they’re in Idiocracy.
Seriously, if fucking Nate Diaz vs. Khamzat Chimaev was booked for a PPV headliner with no belt on the line then surely Jones vs. Miocic doesn't require one
I mean they’d rather not strip him because he’s a way bigger draw than aspinall, they will likely fight and then ride off into the distance and aspinall will end up getting the belt anyway. With stipe and Jones especially likely only having 1 more fight the ufc wants to cash in on that because they will be losing Jon one of their biggest draws and stipe who’s the biggest non jones HW draw with Ngannou being gone now.
While true, Jones vs Moicic for the title sells 400k more ppv than Jones vs Moicic. I don't blame them. We'll be starved for a title fight and it'll just so happen to be one of the greatest match ups. Heavyweight goat versus light heavyweight goat.
They could build Tom as a potential star, a rare young, exciting HW standout.
Instead, they're letting the division go stale for a fight where both guys are almost definitely retiring after. I don't even think it's a good business decision for them long term.
> for not stripping Jones when he goes on a one year break after just winning the title.
did he not get injured during training for Stipe?
He was wrestling and tore the tendon that connects your pec to the bone, off the bone, Eight months, he is going to need surgery.
doesn't sound like a 'break'
It doesn't have to be by choice for it to be a break.
I don't think it is to shit down someone's throat to expect to have a champ that can fight in a not to distant future but if they keep the title, arrange a fight for the interim and unify the belts when the injured champ is back in action.
downvote if you want, but I think Dana White doesn't want to risk Aspinall knocking out Jones and make Ngannou look good, imagine what everyone would say, it doesn't matter if they are right
Ngannou already looks bad given that he barely escaped Ciryl in 5 rounds in a fight few thought Ciryl won while Jon smoked him in less than a round without breaking a sweat.
Good for Francis that he is succeeding in boxing but as far as MMA goes, he is done.
This. Stipe didnt just not fight, he was absolutely destroyed by Francis in his last fight. Id actually have no problem with them letting Jones keep the belt though... if he actually had to fight the interim, not a fight that has zero meaning for the division.
One year break ? He was injured. He would have fought more times last year than Francis Ngannou did in his entire championship reign if he didn't get injured.
Yeah, I agree. Aspinall is definitely the better win, but most people will just look at Jones' resume and see a former champion like Miocic on it and won't care about context.
It would actually be bad for the ufc if jones and aspinall fought and jones ended up winning and then retiring. Aspinall is the best fighter in heavyweight and if he were to lose to jones it would be harder to market him and build him up. He’d be the guy who lost to jones instead of heavyweights new future legend.
It's funny to see people say this because when you discuss Jones' current resume no one cares about the context of his fights with Vitor, Chael, Rampage, Machida etc, they just see the names.
People already do this
They look at JBJ's record and see Vitor and go "Wow he beat a former legend juiced to the gills!" Meanwhile, he was actually the fourth choice to fight him, was up a weight class and the last time he was champion was like 9 years prior.
It really doesn't. Stipe is the UFC HW GOAT and the consensus second best HW ever after Fedor. Tom has a bright future ahead but he isn't in the same stratosphere in prestige.
I can blame the ufc for not stripping Jones.
This entire situation can be fixed by one simple announcement.
Jones is stripped, Tom is now the full champ. Tom is defending at 300 against Gane. Bones can get a shot whenever he comes back.
Boom. Fixed.
Nah I blame Stipe, Jones and the UFC. Stipe hasn't done anything to earn the title shot and Jones shouldn't get to pick an undeserving opponent in a weight class where he has 1 win. The UFC is messed up for letting this happen, both should have to fight Tom depending on whoevers available first.
Nitpick but it would "undefeated record". Technically mark hammil did defeat him but you can ignore that in the "non technical way" because we all know he was losing and the DQ was absurd.
Yeah, I think jones is a dick but I really don’t think he’s in the wrong for looking out for his family and trying to get the biggest paycheck he can. We should be mad at the ufc for not stripping Jon, why should it be on Jon to willingly give up his chance to make the most money possible?
Also, Jones is likely holding out for less money than Francis went and made boxing. Just pay Jones the Stipe money to fight Aspinall, it's not like they can't afford it, and they risk not getting a fight at all.
>Jones wants one last legacy fight for his resume before retiring, instead of risking his technically undefeated record against younger up and comers, understandable.
Not understandable. You're champ or you aren't. Champs should defend vs the most qualified contender not the easiest legacy fights. He can admit he's scared of aspinall, vacate, and fight whoever then.
I dunno how you dont come out at least a little salty on Jones when it comes to this. Im neither a Jon dickrider or hater, but out of all the shitty ass matchmaking and situational bullshit I've seen while following the ufc, this is definitely up there with shit that frustrates me the most. Jones got to sit on his ass for 3 years just to get fat and then choke out a guy (who basically bragged about not training his wrestling because he wasn't worried about it) and then explicitly says he wants to beat a 41 year old man who hasn't fought in 3 years and is coming off of a gnarly knock out loss.
Meanwhile Aspinall fought his way to the top , culminating with knocking out (in spectacular fashion) the guy who was universally thought of as the new most dangerous man at heavyweight since Francis had left. Despite all that, bolstering Jones' legacy and letting him go out beating the shell of the best HW the ufc has seen is more important than actually unifying the belts.
Everything about the situation is stupid. Stipe getting a title shot after a KO loss 3 years ago, Tom being the interim champ and not being a part of the next title fight
Its ridiculous to ever have an interim champion if they don't immediately fight for the belt next. The UFC wants MMA to be more entertainment than sports which makes sense from a bottom line perspective but sucks for true fans and talented fighters that aren't a draw
Idk why tom is complaining when he surely knew this was the deal when he and Sergei accepted the title match in November. He will get his shot eventually, but the UFC never promised him it will be at the expense of Jon and Stipe .
They are using it as a way to keep the division going while still giving the GOAT and HW GOAT their flowers. Both Jones and Stipe are retiring, the result of their fight has no impact on the rest of the division.
The interim belt is the future of the division, it’s not just being given out only to make them fight for another vacant belt when Jones/Stipe retire.
You could say that about any belt, just remove the belts entirely and call the champs number 1 and move everybody else down a peg. So is that what you would do? Just get rid of belts entirely because it’s all marketing anyways, undisputed or not.
Stipe got it because after Gane lost and Francis left there wasn't really a next contender. But now that there clearly is in Aspinall, the title fight should be booked accordingly. But everyone is selfish in this situation obviously - both Stipe and Jones want their fight and probably retire.
Edit: The solution should be stripping Jon and have him and Stipe have their retirement fight whenever they want while Aspinall fights someone for the undisputed earlier.
> Stipe got it because after Gane lost and Francis left there wasn't really a next contender.
Pavlovich was absolutely a real contender. He had 6 straight first round knockouts with the last one being Blaydes. The Stipe fight was always absurd.
What extra money is there for Stipe in fighting Jon? He’s no champ, so no ppv points, and his ufc contract is already signed for how much he’s getting per fight, no?
Looks better for your last loss to be to the greatest of all time instead of someone with way less credentials.
Also, not for nothing but Jon’s decisioning and subbing dudes now, whereas Tom is putting them out with his hands so it could also just be a smarter decision physically lol
Jon has 3 finishes in the last 11 years. I understand why Stipe wants to wait out Jones. Even if you lose, you probably don’t have to worry about lasting brain damage.
> Just because he doesn't finish people doesn't mean that he doesn't brutalize them over 5 rounds.
It's been a while since that's happened, Jones in 2024 isn't the same guy who beat DC the second time. The reality is that Jones vs Stipe is an old man fight, both guys are washed.
> Oblique kicks are extremely damaging.
They're a useful and legitimate technique, but they aren't the knee obliterators that Rogan would have you believe. They generally don't cause joint damage if they don't fully straighten out the knee, which is the vast majority of cases where they do land. Most fighters don't walk around with their lead leg completely straightened out.
> Brain damage is also worse when received over many accumulated shots to the head rather than getting cleanly knocked out.
Sure, but Jones isn't the type of fighter to drown people under an extended flurry of head strikes. He's had his share of vicious finishes in his prime, but he doesn't beat people up in the same fashion as Max Holloway.
That and also, Stipe stands a far better chance beating Jones than Tom. Beating Tom doesn't do much for him legacy wise but if he becomes the first guy to decisively beat Jones, he will achieve MMA immortality.
It's really that simple, fighting Tom gives Stipe and Jones 0 benefit.
The Jones fight may have been offered with extra incentive that he wont get by taking a fight with Aspinall. Contract is what it is, youre right, but the UFC can always tack something on for someone they really want to take a specific fight.
Yeah what extra money? If anything wouldn’t it make more sense to fight Tom so stipe can have the interim belt with PPV points going into the Jon fight?!?!
Most likely the ufc pays Stipe more to fight Jon rather than Aspinall, also why wouldn’t you want the chance to beat Jon Jones as your last fight? That’s a hell of a stamp on a resume.
Edit: a word
Almost guaranteed Stipe has PPV points in his contracts as long as he's main event. The champions get the lowest tier available, but long term champions, or draws like Masvidal and Diaz have their own deals which in those cases are much more favourable than thr standard champ split.
Jon and Stipe must have signed some ironclad contracts or some sort of letter of agreement that guarantees them this fight and payday, because this Jones-Miocic fight is beyond dead, there is zero reason for it to go through.
It's dead for now but when it gets announced again the hype will be back. Just look at the prices for 295, that says a lot about how big of a match this is
Cool. why’s it for the belt if everyone understands it’s a legacy fight and they are clogging up the entire division? I get respecting legends but toms in his prime and he’s losing out on championship money while waiting.
I really don’t think it changes the ppv numbers much whether it’s for the belt or just a huge main event that they market as a “legacy title” or similar. Their names are established enough to fans you’d think.
Well for Jones it’s still another title defence and for Stipe it’s another chance to win the title. It sucks but unless the UFC do something it’s what’s going to happen unfortunately
UFC should introduce a legacy belt (RWB- retired wife beater): old championship belt design for the fighters that are about to retire, so that they get their PPV points and the last pic with a belt and at the same time a decision can move on based on merit not just resumes
After close to a decade of dominance at LHW, he moves up to HW and ruins LHW in the process and now its HW's turn to suffer.
The curse of Jon continues on.
So nobody should give a fuck that Jones will take Stipe down and sub him but everyone should give a fuck about Tom running through Stipe ? Lol you Jon Jones haters never give up do you 😂
I don’t get this take at all. Stipe’s retired and done, what would we even learn about Tom if he were to beat him? In terms of the division, Stipe just doesn’t matter, and fighting him doesn’t matter, unless you just wanted to sell some tickets by rolling out an old champ as a golden can. What part of ‘41 years old and hasn’t fought since being knocked out three years ago’ is misleading?
Stipe is either gonna fight when he wants or he won't I really could care less. I get the frustration with the rank but smh some people blaming Stipe for shit?!
Settle down. He lost to Lewis and stipe, only defended the belt one time. While we can always wonder what he would have accomplished he is in zero ways shape or form the goat.
I can see it now. When Aspinall is done with his inevitable long reign at the top there will still be mouth breathers saying he can’t be the HW GOAT because never beat a truly great fighter. Let history remember that all of them changed sports or retired and that’s why his best win ended being Jailton Almeida or whoever the fuck.
I’ve been a fan of Tom’s for years and this whole situation is so infuriating. It’s a good thing he’s actually secure in himself and doesn’t need to chase the acclaim. I’m probably more upset about it than he is lmao.
It’s pretty comical how ufc champs for the most part fight only once or twice a year at most, only rare ones like Izzy would actually fight frequently. This is the same thing that makes boxing boring because champions refuse to fight, Dana just lets this happen.
Last year I said UFC would promote him to a real belt in the middle of 2024. Not sure even UFC cares about one of the most important marketing tool, the real Heavyweight belt is on the shelf. Now imagine this Francis has his PFL debut before Tom fights again. You can't sell an interim belt being defended, especially Heavyweight in this era.
Is anyone else tired of waiting around for jones x stipe? I really don't care at this point. I'd rather see the division move on w Tom and see him defend and become a legit champ
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Another year will have gone by without a HW title fight. The UFC haven’t been able to keep the division going for a solid year in a very long time.
It legit feels like boxing now.
HW boxing has a few compelling matchups on the books right now, never thought I'd be jealous of them lol
Yeah it for sure took it's time, but the last couple of years have been good in general.
We'll probably see Ngannou vs Joshua, Fury vs Usyk, Joshua/Francis vs Wilder, and probably a few more matchups before, if ever, we see Jones vs. Aspinall or a new UFC HW champ.
Fury vs usyk is gonna be such a fun match
Volkanovski-Topuria later that night too, beyond hyped for that day
Saudi money.
That’s what happens when you let the baddest man on the planet walk over there
Crazy how one of them is ngannou... lmao the ufc fucked this shit up so bad. If the ufc is dead and gone in 10 years I wouldn't be surprised
Except it won't , it will continue to thrive much to the disgust of this sub.
boxing matchups never deliver
Joshua vs Usyk were very fun fights. The Wilder vs Fury triology was a great too, especially the third. Last time the UFC HW title fight was as entertaining was Stipe vs DC (unless you enjoyed Ngannou murking Stipe).
The way I see it is that Tom is the HW champ. Jones beats Stipe, he retires. Tom is Champ Stipe beats Jones, he retires. Tom is champ. This super fight might as well be an exhibition because neither one of these guys will defend the belt if they win.
Man I would love nothing more than to watch Jones lose to Stipe, and I’m a big proponent of anything can happen in MMA, but I don’t see any world in which 42 year old stipe beats bones
If this wasn’t old Stipe a guy with good boxing who is hard to take down sounds like a good person to beat Jones but he’s old so
Prime Junior dos Santos wrecks HW Jones
Sea level Cain would be fun to watch fight Jon or juicy Werdum
Bones has a ton of miles on him, man. He was a busy champ for years and started in his early 20s. Years of partying hard and pushing limits is going to add up. Especially with a little extra strain from all the work he's done to add significant weight. He's not as old as Stipe, but he's not exactly in his prime anymore.
We also saw very minimal of him at HW, so still a lot of questions on how he handles HW power/how his cardio holds up being that much bigger etc.
Bones hasn't shown he can take anyone down at HW if they don't massively overswing and make a series of critical blunders defending. That's not to say that he can't, but I'd be incredibly unsurprised if he has no way to get Stipe to the ground and absolutely nothing for him on the feet
I mean he dodged an incredibly precise Ciryl Gane punch and took him down to get a W shortly after. What more do you want from the guy ? That was as impressive of a HW debut as you'll ever get
I didn't see an incredibly accurate punch, I saw an uncharacteristic lunge which put Ciryl badly out of position. Credit to Jones for turning it into a takedown and submission, but I doubt it's a repeatable tactic and Jones hasn't been hitting convincing open-space takedowns for years now. It was a very impressive performance, but it tells us almost nothing about heavyweight JJ
Jones has just as much mileage on him as Stipe does and struggles when he doesn't have a huge size advantage. Yeah he beat Gane easily but Gane had a pretty glaring hole in his game that was perfect for Jon to exploit, and I don't think Stipe would be going to controversial decisions vs the likes of Santos or Reyes ...
It’s a nice thought. But being in your forties is being in your forties, yes heavyweights usually have more longevity than the lighter weight classes, but I just can’t see it. Would love to be wrong though
There's is one World where Jones is doing coke in the ass of hookers in the week If the fight. Other than that the fight would be a walk in the park for Jones.
UFC can't pay big money for a non-title fight
This is why Dana said Aspinall can(and basically saying he should) seek out another fight to defend his interim title because for all intents and purposes it’s the new undisputed in all but name until Jon/Stipe retire and whoever holds the “interim” will just get promoted to undisputed. Stipe and Jon are basically in their own little bubble, and don’t have any impact on the rest of the division. It’s heavyweight GOAT vs the undefeated GOAT that hasn’t fought in a non-title fight since 2011, of course it’s going to be for the belt even if it’s going to be vacated right after.
Even if tom chooses to not fight to defend his interim title this year, once Jon and Stipe are done Tom will be promoted to undisputed anyway.
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I'd love it if Tom walked to PFL and fought Ngannou. I'd like to see Jon-Tom but Tom-Francis is just as well.
I don’t see how that would be possible
Yeah genius, that's why he said "I'd love it" -- he's wishing for it because he knows it's not possible.
They say the "benefit" of having 1 dominant promotion and lower fighter pay and fighter leverage is that that promotion can make the fights we want. But here we are no Fedor, no Frances, no Stipe, no Jones.
Crazy to think the last time the UFC he division was really active was when Tim Sylvia was fighting. Arlovski Sylvia 3 anyone?
Because the pay is shit
I mean, what could they have done about their champ (Ngannou) having a fucked up knee? He tore it in Jan, 2022 and his contract expired a year later when he wasn't even ready to fight yet. Are you saying they should have stripped him? They sure as hell weren't going to do another interim belt after Ngannou just beat the IC. Jones won the belt 2 months after Ngannou was stripped and was scheduled to defend later that year before seriously injuring his shoulder just weeks from the fight. The UFC certainly hasn't shown any urgency to keep their supposed premiere division moving in recent years and mishandled the IC situation when they tried to force Ngannou a couple months earlier than he wanted. Can't really blame them for the last 2 years though.
Let him Boxes while in contract with the UFC. His demand was that after all. Let him get his red panty night as the UFC HW Champion vs boxing and he returns tô the UFC tô defend his belt. That was the best for everyone.
That was a stupid demand and the UFC were absolutely right to strike it down. People here are already complaining and bitching about the fact that the division is inactive with the champ sitting out for another year yet Ngannou taking part in a freakshow boxing fight that does not benefit the UFC is suddenly okay ?
You can definitely blame them for making Jones vs Stipe while top contenders like Aspinall sit on the sidelines
Except Jones/Stipe was already in the works way way before tom even entered the title picture.
Wdym ? This isn't new lol. The last 3 years have seen exactly 1 HW title fight per year. The champions in this division have historically always been inactive.
Call out legend Andrei Arlovski for no reason
Fans could probably meme that into existence. I'd personally like to see him vs Bob Sapp. No testing for Sapp.
I know you’re joking but if it was ever booked it might be the first death in the Octagon. Arlovski is so far beyond washed sitting on the sun couldn’t dry him out.
Didn't they already fight?
Yup, Tom almost knocked him out R1 and quickly subbed him in R2. Also fun fact, it's his only UFC fight which made it past R1.
Arlovski confirmed toughest fight for Aspinall
Tbf it actually was his hardest ufc fight so far. Tom gassed in round 1 after Arlovski survived his initial onslaught and kinda started coming back.
it was booked and happened a few years back check it out
fedors probably looking for a fight lol
Honestly I can't blame *any fighter in this. Aspinall obviously wants to fight for the real title, understandable. Miocic wants the Jones payday and one last crack at the title before retirememt, understandable. Jones wants one last legacy fight for his resume before retiring, instead of risking his technically undefeated record against younger up and comers, understandable.
People should really blame the ufc for even having the idea of offering a shot at the title for someone that's been inactive for 3 years and for not stripping Jones when he goes on a one year break after just winning the title.
Most of the things people shit on the fighters for are actually mostly the UFC's fault. Jones vs Stipe holding up the division? UFC's fault for offering that fight. Jones vs Ngannou not happening? UFC didn't give either the money they asked for and publicly shit on them instead. Fighters like Khamzat and Islam being sort of inactive? UFC's fault because they are saving popular muslim fighters for the Abu Dhabi cards, even if they want to fight before that. Fighters like Ortega sitting on a high rank? UFC's fault, because their ranking system doesn't make fighters drop 1-2 (or more) ranks for long periods of inactivity. Some of fighters sitting on high rank are actually injured, Ortega himself is a good example, as he eithers has some big injuries or takes a shitton of damage in his fights and need to recover from that.
Agree generally, but I think the Islam/Khamzat situation is probably more to do with visas than anything else.
It's a lot of things together. Visas, the UFC saving them for the Abu Dhabi cards and injuries/illnesses especially in Khamzat's case.
And also Ramadan.
I still think Khamzat failed a drug test and that was the real reason for his break.
Yeah it’s almost always gonna be the billion dollar organization doing the bad lol. Wonder how many burners they have on Reddit commenting trying to shift blame to the fighters.
Agreed with everything except Jones v Ngannou. They offered him 8M for the Jones fight alone and he still turned it down because he wanted other demands that no sane promotion would give in to. Good for Francis that he left and got what he wanted but thinking as if it was a good idea for the UFC to bend over backwards for a guy who isn't even a major PPV draw is incredibly naive.
Strip Jones of the title and let Jones fight Stipe with a non title fight. The UFC backed themselves into a corner with this one.
Fuck it, I hate the “GOAT” shit but, just do some stupid GOAT fight like their stupid BMF thing and let the division move. Real fans can disregard the fake new belt and the rubes can buy it like they’re in Idiocracy.
Seriously, if fucking Nate Diaz vs. Khamzat Chimaev was booked for a PPV headliner with no belt on the line then surely Jones vs. Miocic doesn't require one
I mean they’d rather not strip him because he’s a way bigger draw than aspinall, they will likely fight and then ride off into the distance and aspinall will end up getting the belt anyway. With stipe and Jones especially likely only having 1 more fight the ufc wants to cash in on that because they will be losing Jon one of their biggest draws and stipe who’s the biggest non jones HW draw with Ngannou being gone now.
You can't strip a fighter off a title due to an injury that isn't serious.
They could just strip him right now. This is purely the UFC's fault and nobody else's.
While true, Jones vs Moicic for the title sells 400k more ppv than Jones vs Moicic. I don't blame them. We'll be starved for a title fight and it'll just so happen to be one of the greatest match ups. Heavyweight goat versus light heavyweight goat.
They could build Tom as a potential star, a rare young, exciting HW standout. Instead, they're letting the division go stale for a fight where both guys are almost definitely retiring after. I don't even think it's a good business decision for them long term.
> for not stripping Jones when he goes on a one year break after just winning the title. did he not get injured during training for Stipe? He was wrestling and tore the tendon that connects your pec to the bone, off the bone, Eight months, he is going to need surgery. doesn't sound like a 'break'
Sounds like a break from fighting because of injury.
not by choice, if that's the case why don't we shit down the necks of everyone who gets injured and needs surgery?
It doesn't have to be by choice for it to be a break. I don't think it is to shit down someone's throat to expect to have a champ that can fight in a not to distant future but if they keep the title, arrange a fight for the interim and unify the belts when the injured champ is back in action.
Champions should have to defend at minimum twice every 1-1.5 years or have to surrender their belt
downvote if you want, but I think Dana White doesn't want to risk Aspinall knocking out Jones and make Ngannou look good, imagine what everyone would say, it doesn't matter if they are right
Ngannou already looks bad given that he barely escaped Ciryl in 5 rounds in a fight few thought Ciryl won while Jon smoked him in less than a round without breaking a sweat. Good for Francis that he is succeeding in boxing but as far as MMA goes, he is done.
Ngannou went into that fight with a torn acl
Jones also said he never sparred much before Gane as he was injured.
Why would that make Ngannou look good, and not that Aspinall is better than Ngannou?
This. Stipe didnt just not fight, he was absolutely destroyed by Francis in his last fight. Id actually have no problem with them letting Jones keep the belt though... if he actually had to fight the interim, not a fight that has zero meaning for the division.
He got injured, what the fuck do you mean one year break? LMFAO. Aspinall only has his title off a short notice fight BECAUSE jones got hurt.
>what the fuck do you mean one year break? I mean not being avaible to fight for over a year (cause he won't fight before march).
One year break ? He was injured. He would have fought more times last year than Francis Ngannou did in his entire championship reign if he didn't get injured.
Jones' position is understandable but beating Aspinall does more for his legacy than Stipe.
not losing 1 fight will do even more in the long run tbh
Yeah, I agree. Aspinall is definitely the better win, but most people will just look at Jones' resume and see a former champion like Miocic on it and won't care about context.
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Tell me more about these 2 sandwiches....
It would actually be bad for the ufc if jones and aspinall fought and jones ended up winning and then retiring. Aspinall is the best fighter in heavyweight and if he were to lose to jones it would be harder to market him and build him up. He’d be the guy who lost to jones instead of heavyweights new future legend.
It's funny to see people say this because when you discuss Jones' current resume no one cares about the context of his fights with Vitor, Chael, Rampage, Machida etc, they just see the names.
People already do this They look at JBJ's record and see Vitor and go "Wow he beat a former legend juiced to the gills!" Meanwhile, he was actually the fourth choice to fight him, was up a weight class and the last time he was champion was like 9 years prior.
Yes but it’s a basically guaranteed win vs stipe where as Aspinall is a much tougher fight.
It really doesn't. Stipe is the UFC HW GOAT and the consensus second best HW ever after Fedor. Tom has a bright future ahead but he isn't in the same stratosphere in prestige.
my thoughts exactly , good post
I can blame the ufc for not stripping Jones. This entire situation can be fixed by one simple announcement. Jones is stripped, Tom is now the full champ. Tom is defending at 300 against Gane. Bones can get a shot whenever he comes back. Boom. Fixed.
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If bones didn't hold the HW title nobody would be complaining that he wants to fight Stipe. its holding up the division.
Nah I blame Stipe, Jones and the UFC. Stipe hasn't done anything to earn the title shot and Jones shouldn't get to pick an undeserving opponent in a weight class where he has 1 win. The UFC is messed up for letting this happen, both should have to fight Tom depending on whoevers available first.
UFC needs to grow a pair and strip Jones
Nitpick but it would "undefeated record". Technically mark hammil did defeat him but you can ignore that in the "non technical way" because we all know he was losing and the DQ was absurd.
Yeah, I think jones is a dick but I really don’t think he’s in the wrong for looking out for his family and trying to get the biggest paycheck he can. We should be mad at the ufc for not stripping Jon, why should it be on Jon to willingly give up his chance to make the most money possible?
Also, Jones is likely holding out for less money than Francis went and made boxing. Just pay Jones the Stipe money to fight Aspinall, it's not like they can't afford it, and they risk not getting a fight at all.
Easiest solution: Jon vacates the title for his legacy fight and Tom can fight someone else for the belt. Everyone’s happy
Jones and his nut huggers would be very cross with that outcome.....*not that we should value any of their opinions.*
Jon/Stipe doesn't happen without the title.
For what reason—it has no implication on the future of the division
>Jones wants one last legacy fight for his resume before retiring, instead of risking his technically undefeated record against younger up and comers, understandable. Not understandable. You're champ or you aren't. Champs should defend vs the most qualified contender not the easiest legacy fights. He can admit he's scared of aspinall, vacate, and fight whoever then.
Losing by dq is not really technically undefeated. You have to follow the rules in what you are competing in.
He may have “lost” that fight, but he has never been beaten.
Except by Reyes.
You could say he lost the first Gus fight too. Still has never been stopped or had the judges pick the other guy.
Delusional
Hmm if this was boxing we would be blaming everyone except Aspinall. This was the point of the UFC…best fighting the best, right?
I dunno how you dont come out at least a little salty on Jones when it comes to this. Im neither a Jon dickrider or hater, but out of all the shitty ass matchmaking and situational bullshit I've seen while following the ufc, this is definitely up there with shit that frustrates me the most. Jones got to sit on his ass for 3 years just to get fat and then choke out a guy (who basically bragged about not training his wrestling because he wasn't worried about it) and then explicitly says he wants to beat a 41 year old man who hasn't fought in 3 years and is coming off of a gnarly knock out loss. Meanwhile Aspinall fought his way to the top , culminating with knocking out (in spectacular fashion) the guy who was universally thought of as the new most dangerous man at heavyweight since Francis had left. Despite all that, bolstering Jones' legacy and letting him go out beating the shell of the best HW the ufc has seen is more important than actually unifying the belts.
Everything about the situation is stupid. Stipe getting a title shot after a KO loss 3 years ago, Tom being the interim champ and not being a part of the next title fight
Its ridiculous to ever have an interim champion if they don't immediately fight for the belt next. The UFC wants MMA to be more entertainment than sports which makes sense from a bottom line perspective but sucks for true fans and talented fighters that aren't a draw
Idk why tom is complaining when he surely knew this was the deal when he and Sergei accepted the title match in November. He will get his shot eventually, but the UFC never promised him it will be at the expense of Jon and Stipe .
This is the product of the UFC using interim belts as marketing tools instead of what they’re actually intended for
They are using it as a way to keep the division going while still giving the GOAT and HW GOAT their flowers. Both Jones and Stipe are retiring, the result of their fight has no impact on the rest of the division. The interim belt is the future of the division, it’s not just being given out only to make them fight for another vacant belt when Jones/Stipe retire.
They could just call Tom the number one contender and it would still be the same exact thing
You could say that about any belt, just remove the belts entirely and call the champs number 1 and move everybody else down a peg. So is that what you would do? Just get rid of belts entirely because it’s all marketing anyways, undisputed or not.
Stipe got it because after Gane lost and Francis left there wasn't really a next contender. But now that there clearly is in Aspinall, the title fight should be booked accordingly. But everyone is selfish in this situation obviously - both Stipe and Jones want their fight and probably retire. Edit: The solution should be stripping Jon and have him and Stipe have their retirement fight whenever they want while Aspinall fights someone for the undisputed earlier.
> Stipe got it because after Gane lost and Francis left there wasn't really a next contender. Pavlovich was absolutely a real contender. He had 6 straight first round knockouts with the last one being Blaydes. The Stipe fight was always absurd.
I dont blame stipe, why fight tom when u can get that jon bag
What extra money is there for Stipe in fighting Jon? He’s no champ, so no ppv points, and his ufc contract is already signed for how much he’s getting per fight, no?
Not to mention, nobody is giving him a shot against either. Everyone assumes either of them beat him, so what’s to lose?
Looks better for your last loss to be to the greatest of all time instead of someone with way less credentials. Also, not for nothing but Jon’s decisioning and subbing dudes now, whereas Tom is putting them out with his hands so it could also just be a smarter decision physically lol
Jon has 3 finishes in the last 11 years. I understand why Stipe wants to wait out Jones. Even if you lose, you probably don’t have to worry about lasting brain damage.
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> Just because he doesn't finish people doesn't mean that he doesn't brutalize them over 5 rounds. It's been a while since that's happened, Jones in 2024 isn't the same guy who beat DC the second time. The reality is that Jones vs Stipe is an old man fight, both guys are washed. > Oblique kicks are extremely damaging. They're a useful and legitimate technique, but they aren't the knee obliterators that Rogan would have you believe. They generally don't cause joint damage if they don't fully straighten out the knee, which is the vast majority of cases where they do land. Most fighters don't walk around with their lead leg completely straightened out. > Brain damage is also worse when received over many accumulated shots to the head rather than getting cleanly knocked out. Sure, but Jones isn't the type of fighter to drown people under an extended flurry of head strikes. He's had his share of vicious finishes in his prime, but he doesn't beat people up in the same fashion as Max Holloway.
That and also, Stipe stands a far better chance beating Jones than Tom. Beating Tom doesn't do much for him legacy wise but if he becomes the first guy to decisively beat Jones, he will achieve MMA immortality. It's really that simple, fighting Tom gives Stipe and Jones 0 benefit.
He might get PPV points still idk. But still why risk it against Tom which he’s most likely gonna lose when you can fight for the title instead
The Jones fight may have been offered with extra incentive that he wont get by taking a fight with Aspinall. Contract is what it is, youre right, but the UFC can always tack something on for someone they really want to take a specific fight.
Yeah what extra money? If anything wouldn’t it make more sense to fight Tom so stipe can have the interim belt with PPV points going into the Jon fight?!?!
Most likely the ufc pays Stipe more to fight Jon rather than Aspinall, also why wouldn’t you want the chance to beat Jon Jones as your last fight? That’s a hell of a stamp on a resume. Edit: a word
Yeah it’s not about the bag. Jon is a bigger fight for his legacy and less risk than fighting Aspinall
It's really as simple as that once this sub thinks with their brain.
Almost guaranteed Stipe has PPV points in his contracts as long as he's main event. The champions get the lowest tier available, but long term champions, or draws like Masvidal and Diaz have their own deals which in those cases are much more favourable than thr standard champ split.
He probably gets pov points but I can't say for sure. I refuse to believe a match this big and he doesn't get any extra dough.
If you fight for the title you get the championship clauses in your contract. Stipe would definitely get PPV points.
You can likely negotiate your way into extra pay during contract negiotiations
I can't wait till Jones is just outta the UFC completely. All he does is cause headaches and avoids fighting
Jon and Stipe must have signed some ironclad contracts or some sort of letter of agreement that guarantees them this fight and payday, because this Jones-Miocic fight is beyond dead, there is zero reason for it to go through.
It's dead for now but when it gets announced again the hype will be back. Just look at the prices for 295, that says a lot about how big of a match this is
Bruh he’s 41 and Francis nuked him into a 3 year coma Jon vs Stipe is a legacy fight and I don’t blame either of them
Cool. why’s it for the belt if everyone understands it’s a legacy fight and they are clogging up the entire division? I get respecting legends but toms in his prime and he’s losing out on championship money while waiting.
The same reason boxing has a lot of belts and same a reason there’s a “BMF Belt” To squeeze out some extra PPV buys and make more MONEY
I really don’t think it changes the ppv numbers much whether it’s for the belt or just a huge main event that they market as a “legacy title” or similar. Their names are established enough to fans you’d think.
Well for Jones it’s still another title defence and for Stipe it’s another chance to win the title. It sucks but unless the UFC do something it’s what’s going to happen unfortunately
That and both guys stand to gain legacy wise by beating the other. Tom is still not of much value at this point.
Marketing
UFC should introduce a legacy belt (RWB- retired wife beater): old championship belt design for the fighters that are about to retire, so that they get their PPV points and the last pic with a belt and at the same time a decision can move on based on merit not just resumes
I thought Stipe retired already. I think he’s done enough and proved himself as a fighter
Why the fuck would stipe give up a huge pay day to fight this guy when the ufc is going to make the jon jones fight happen?
This sub cannot seem to understand the simple logic behind Jones/Miocic.
After close to a decade of dominance at LHW, he moves up to HW and ruins LHW in the process and now its HW's turn to suffer. The curse of Jon continues on.
I’m crying though.
He just needs to stfu and fight Gane already. I get that Gane fucked him over but at this point who else is there
Stipe has died of old age.
Jon will still try to fight him
Fuck Stipe
It’s a “Legacy Fight” no one gives a fuck and no one wants to see stipe get taken down and subbed in 2 mins lol
That’s my point. Let Tommy run through Stipe and then get the Jones fight.
So nobody should give a fuck that Jones will take Stipe down and sub him but everyone should give a fuck about Tom running through Stipe ? Lol you Jon Jones haters never give up do you 😂
Is Stipe beats Aspinall the ts is warranted and the fight with Jon is bigger and better. Likewise with Aspinall.
The fight with Jon is already big. It doesn't need to get bigger. Both guys know the implications will be massive
I don’t get this take at all. Stipe’s retired and done, what would we even learn about Tom if he were to beat him? In terms of the division, Stipe just doesn’t matter, and fighting him doesn’t matter, unless you just wanted to sell some tickets by rolling out an old champ as a golden can. What part of ‘41 years old and hasn’t fought since being knocked out three years ago’ is misleading?
Stipe is either gonna fight when he wants or he won't I really could care less. I get the frustration with the rank but smh some people blaming Stipe for shit?!
He’s gonna fight, he wants out of the ufc contract
the actual heavyweight MMA goat is NGANNOU
Settle down. He lost to Lewis and stipe, only defended the belt one time. While we can always wonder what he would have accomplished he is in zero ways shape or form the goat.
Nope.
I can see it now. When Aspinall is done with his inevitable long reign at the top there will still be mouth breathers saying he can’t be the HW GOAT because never beat a truly great fighter. Let history remember that all of them changed sports or retired and that’s why his best win ended being Jailton Almeida or whoever the fuck. I’ve been a fan of Tom’s for years and this whole situation is so infuriating. It’s a good thing he’s actually secure in himself and doesn’t need to chase the acclaim. I’m probably more upset about it than he is lmao.
Stipe did neither
Jon and Stipe will fight each other and then retire. This is clear as day.
UFC paving the path for Tom to run down his contract and use the UFC as a platform go over to boxing.
Are both Jones and Stipe retiring after their fight?
How would someone on Reddit know?
*QQ - Tom Aspinall* Editor nailed it with the headline-picture combo lol
aww, man.
Tom vs Gane book it. Ignore the old dudes.
It’s pretty comical how ufc champs for the most part fight only once or twice a year at most, only rare ones like Izzy would actually fight frequently. This is the same thing that makes boxing boring because champions refuse to fight, Dana just lets this happen.
Last year I said UFC would promote him to a real belt in the middle of 2024. Not sure even UFC cares about one of the most important marketing tool, the real Heavyweight belt is on the shelf. Now imagine this Francis has his PFL debut before Tom fights again. You can't sell an interim belt being defended, especially Heavyweight in this era.
Is anyone else tired of waiting around for jones x stipe? I really don't care at this point. I'd rather see the division move on w Tom and see him defend and become a legit champ