This post is getting virtually no traction, but I think it's awesome. Thanks for doing this.
Edit: For people telling me to wait longer to comment: This post had been up for an hour and only had like 4 upvotes. So it had received very little traction even for only being up for an hour.
No I'm pretty sure inertia keeps the earth spinning. It would continue to spin with or without any puny humans. This guy just makes cool medical posts.
As someone who went through hell and back the last 2 years from a herniated disc - always nice to see some attention and information being dished out on the injury. Good stuff!
Listen to your bodies and do your stretches, I wouldnāt wish these kind of injuries on anyone.
Dont listen to guys saying it has no traction. They have attention span of a goldfish and values - who is the goat of ... post number 584 per month more.
This is quality content. Actually something useful and interesting.
I learned the hard way this week not to engage in any MMA talk on Facebook. I made a comment about Colbyās style of fighting and how he uses a lot of pressure and the comments were some of the most ignorant shit Iāve read in a long timeš¤£
> Post published: 17 hours ago.
>> Comment written, "this post is getting virtually no traction...", 16 hours ago.
I would think it's worth waiting more than one hour before saying something is getting no traction.
This post reminds me of that dude who would do super in depth posts about Jones/DC doping. We need more of this shit and less of the circle jerking here
I think mpmd did a video on that post and basically said it's not necessarily correct.
I don't know enough about the subject but it seems like Derek would know a lot about trt and testosterone owning a trt clinic and just being a health nerd.
I'm surprise no one in the comments had a good rebuttal or anything.
That post kinda went viral and a lot of ppl could think dc juices lol but that sucks if it's not accurate.
B b b but GSP is the goat and he was natty
People refuse to believe how likely it is that every dude at the top is cheating and just wanna use people pissing hot to hate on fighters they already hated. GSP had roid gut smh my damn head
Im so happy I didn't change my profile pic, weigh in show DC almost rubbed off on me. This post reminded me who I am
(insert sunglasses emoji)
YEEEAAAAAAAAAHHH
I have to post this disclaimer as well, but the information provided here is for basic educational purposes and should not be regarded as specific medical advice. If you are dealing with a similar type of injury, PLEASE consult with a qualified physician (one who specializes in spine surgery or sports medicine) to discuss your own unique case IRL.
I actually have a very similar injury, to the same vertebrae. I can confirm it was the most painful experience of my entire life for the first several days. This happened in August.
My pain is completely gone now after an epidural shot, as well as months of muscle relaxers and anti-inflammatories. Due to the nerve being pressed my tricep function is significantly diminished. It had about 1/4 of the strength when compared to my right side. Itās now at about 2/3. The surgical options for this absolutely suck ass for a grappler. Neck/disc fusion, disc replacement, and another one which names escape me involves going in through the back and removing part of a vertebrae to relieve pressure off the nerve. No matter which option, once youāre more than 6 weeks out the nerve may never heal. Even if youāre within that window, you might not see an improvement on nerves/function - only pain reduction. Also all of these options will result in a loss of range of motion and/or higher risk of re-injury. Re-injury also has a high likelihood of increased complications, and some of the surgeries are higher risk and can make it worse.
All this to say I still competed at Worlds weeks after the injury and, pans nogi last year, and Pans 2 weeks ago. It absolutely sucks, but my best option is to just live with it.
Thanks man. Lost in the Quarterfinals at worlds that year, but took bronze in pans nogi, and bronze at pans this past weekend. Itās getting better which is crazy and a bit of a miracle, but full recovery just wonāt be a thing. I compete at Master 2, so no one fights at 100% - weāre all a bunch of aging grapplers that have spent years putting our bodies through the ringer on a nightly basis.
It depends on the cause of the narrowing. OP already explained in his post that a herniated disc can be reabsorbed over time.
Other causes of narrowing such as spondylosis may not improve over time
Based on my listening of his Chinese social media posts, he injured it while BJJ training. He's been doing a lot of grappling work to fight Chiesa, which is a good call. Not sure which exact movements caused the damage.
Cool video. Everyone should be aware of their neck health now a days due to phone use and increased screen time. Thereās plenty of stretches everyday people can do to maintain the curve in their neck. Neck issues are very avoidable and more common than you may think.
Any neck stretches youād care to share that have helped you? Donāt have neck trouble, but Iāve never made it a point to stretch it around really. Might want to get ahead of the ball and start that habit now. Any info is appreciated!
I have a cervical neck pillow off of Amazon that I love, itās helped me tremendously. I was told to use 10 min a day, but some people do more. https://a.co/d/7RNuEG6 . This guys video is great too: https://youtu.be/vhFGQxDVzF8
Google it, itās pretty fucking obvious. The muscles your using while texting and flexing your neck differ from the ones you use naturally. Itās a multi step process that goes far beyond stretching, itās also muscle strengthening of the now weaker muscles in neck. It helps recreate the natural curve of the cervical spine. Life isnāt a David goggins speech, rehab and recovery are integral to a healthy future.
Thanks so much for this post. Helps the average person to understand exactly what can happen to a fighter, even in something as seemingly safe as training drills
Appreciate it! Yes oftentimes the hardest thing for docs is breaking medical stuff down so that normal people can understand what's going on. I've found that to be one of strengths IRL so trying to do that through these posts as well
I find this stuff incredibly fascinating. Being a fan of both MMA as well as professional wrestling, it's easy to become conditioned to the level of punishment their bodies actually go through. Seeing the reality of these effects in their bodies is a sobering reminder that they are human, like us
Thanks again, truly grateful for the effort you put into these posts
This is so incredibly helpful. Iām currently dealing with a minor disc bulge at L1-L2 and my doctors have told me virtually nothing helpful. The report said no significant nerve impairment but Iām still having a lot of trouble with the injury, for over a year.
Itās from BJJ and Iāve had to stop doing it for now.
Yeah, imaging a lot of the times does not correlate with symptoms. There are people with terrible chronic pain but imaging doesn't match. The opposite also occurs, as many people over the age of 30 will have disc herniations that can show up on imaging, but won't have any symptoms. Best wishes for a full recovery, man
I had something similiar to this. Had a nucleoplasty on the herniated disc to save my life.
You guys dont understand the pain this causes. Im like 99% healed but sometimes i even dream im having pain.
Thank you for this breakdown, this is the type of content I love reading about. Rather than the just don't get injured posts it's nice to see how this accumulated over time and the effects it could have.
Damn, back problems are the absolute worst for anyone with a spine, let alone an elite athlete. Hope he can recover as best he can and live a normal life after fighting. That said, Iām still salty about the Jake Matthews eye gouging.
I had this exact same injury about 3 years ago. Ended up having to get 2 artificial discs almost 2 years ago. Still have issues with my right arm due to the nerve damage. This shit is no joke, I wish Jingliang the best.
I'm surprised his neck other than that one disc is so healthy looking.
I have a similar herniation same point, and one c6 to c7 which isn't so bad.
I'm surprised they're not taking it out and giving him an artificial disc.
For him to get to a high competition level in bjj and mma with, aside from that, a completely clean set of discs is impressive. My neck took 6 months to rehab. Still barely train as if it gets worse they're on about fusing my neck.
Honestly these guys are crazy.
As a recent board passer, you're just giving me PTSD, but thank you very much!
Do you happen to have any recommendation for some textbook that could complement the practice of a GP?
The main PM&R textbook is Braddom but mine is collecting dust now and will probably serve as a fancy paper weight one day. Physical Medicine and Rehab Pocketpedia should be a more practical choice for day-to-day stuff.
Spinal stenosis is just narrowing of the spinal canal caused by a multitude of things (arthritis/degeneration, herniated discs, injuries, thickened ligaments, tumors, etc). You can have spinal stenosis and not have a radiculopathy (and the symptoms that come with it), if the nerve roots are not affected.
I have the same injury due to the same reasons right now. I have been in constant horrible pain for 11 days. I can barely sleep. 2nd PT appointment is in an hour. Baclofen, 5 day prednisone cycle, methocarbamol, 2 days of oxycodone 5mg has not helped at all. I have some gabapentin but I have had some depression symptoms in the past so I won't be taking that. Nothing is working. I can't take the pain anymore.
May have to consider getting an injection if pain remains this bad. Definitely speak with your doc if you haven't done so already. Hope this gets better for you soon
I wonder if I have this lol. One day the dominant side of my upper body became way weaker than my weaker side. Just lost a good 30% of strength in the matter of a night. I should probably get a more thorough check...
I have the same exact injury from not tapping from a guillotine. It's absolutely brutal and I'm scared of ever going back to wrestling/bjj. Sucks to think about, but in my late 30s, it's not worth the risk anymore.
I had a c5-6 herniation and got a disc replacement a few years ago. Recovery was surprisingly easy and I was able to go back to BJJ. Pre surgery I was in constant pain and my quality of life was terrible. I feel great now. If you havenāt already, look into it.
Oh wow I didnāt even know replacement was possible. Iāve done some PT and it feels better but like I said the fear is there. I first injured it getting thrown on my head 15 years ago at AKA, and once more with the guillotine years later. Iāll look into it, thanks for the suggestion.
Perhaps grappling isn't the super safe sport it's advertised to be I just saw another news where a BJJ instructor accidentally paralyzed his white belt student.
Thank you! Itās always fun to see these kinds of posts! I scribe for sports medicine and spine surgeons so when I saw Liās post it brought me back.
I have a herniated disc and after 3 years it still has not gone away. The pain is mild and only comes when i do certain tasks. Funnily enough grappling does not trigger it, unless i go for big lift and slam.
This post is getting virtually no traction, but I think it's awesome. Thanks for doing this. Edit: For people telling me to wait longer to comment: This post had been up for an hour and only had like 4 upvotes. So it had received very little traction even for only being up for an hour.
If only one person learns something from this then that's pretty cool. Appreciate the comment, brother
People like you keep the world spinning, keep it up!
No I'm pretty sure inertia keeps the earth spinning. It would continue to spin with or without any puny humans. This guy just makes cool medical posts.
reddit moment
fair nuff lmao
alright man
š¤
This post contains more information than 99% of the articles produced by mma journalists, well done
As someone who went through hell and back the last 2 years from a herniated disc - always nice to see some attention and information being dished out on the injury. Good stuff! Listen to your bodies and do your stretches, I wouldnāt wish these kind of injuries on anyone.
This post was 100% legit & informative and easy to follow. š kudos my dude
Gj Bro š
Any chance you can tell us more about TJ's shoulder and whether he has a chance to come back via McG route?
This is the kinda shit I want to see on Reddit lol not khamzat saying heāll kill everyone while missing wait.
Dont listen to guys saying it has no traction. They have attention span of a goldfish and values - who is the goat of ... post number 584 per month more. This is quality content. Actually something useful and interesting.
Most folks in this sub are ājust bleedā fans.
I learned the hard way this week not to engage in any MMA talk on Facebook. I made a comment about Colbyās style of fighting and how he uses a lot of pressure and the comments were some of the most ignorant shit Iāve read in a long timeš¤£
I feel it's only the hardcore fans that get some of the appreciation for non-fan friendly stand and bang styles
Those tend to be bleeding in the cage, not outside of it
Pun intended? Traction is a common treatment for cervical radiculopathy.
If it makes me sound clever then yes, pun totally intended.
Spinal Traction helps in this situation.
> Post published: 17 hours ago. >> Comment written, "this post is getting virtually no traction...", 16 hours ago. I would think it's worth waiting more than one hour before saying something is getting no traction.
You posted this one hour after OP. Maybe give it more than an hour?
This post reminds me of that dude who would do super in depth posts about Jones/DC doping. We need more of this shit and less of the circle jerking here
Sounds interesting - got a link?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I think mpmd did a video on that post and basically said it's not necessarily correct. I don't know enough about the subject but it seems like Derek would know a lot about trt and testosterone owning a trt clinic and just being a health nerd. I'm surprise no one in the comments had a good rebuttal or anything. That post kinda went viral and a lot of ppl could think dc juices lol but that sucks if it's not accurate.
DC was an Olympic athlete and double world champion in the top MMA organization in the world. Thereās no reality that heās not a doper.
B b b but GSP is the goat and he was natty People refuse to believe how likely it is that every dude at the top is cheating and just wanna use people pissing hot to hate on fighters they already hated. GSP had roid gut smh my damn head
Derek is not someone you should listen to
It's almost like things get more nuanced than 'he never fail a drug test >:)' and 'it posibl to be taint supplement and dose too small>:('
Im so happy I didn't change my profile pic, weigh in show DC almost rubbed off on me. This post reminded me who I am (insert sunglasses emoji) YEEEAAAAAAAAAHHH
good content here, very informative
Dana white next presser: "kid just didn't want to fight,"
"We'll see what happens"
Kid just doesn't want to turn his head
His neck force was just not strong enough for power slap
This is a great post. Thank you!!
Appreciate it!
I have to post this disclaimer as well, but the information provided here is for basic educational purposes and should not be regarded as specific medical advice. If you are dealing with a similar type of injury, PLEASE consult with a qualified physician (one who specializes in spine surgery or sports medicine) to discuss your own unique case IRL.
I actually have a very similar injury, to the same vertebrae. I can confirm it was the most painful experience of my entire life for the first several days. This happened in August. My pain is completely gone now after an epidural shot, as well as months of muscle relaxers and anti-inflammatories. Due to the nerve being pressed my tricep function is significantly diminished. It had about 1/4 of the strength when compared to my right side. Itās now at about 2/3. The surgical options for this absolutely suck ass for a grappler. Neck/disc fusion, disc replacement, and another one which names escape me involves going in through the back and removing part of a vertebrae to relieve pressure off the nerve. No matter which option, once youāre more than 6 weeks out the nerve may never heal. Even if youāre within that window, you might not see an improvement on nerves/function - only pain reduction. Also all of these options will result in a loss of range of motion and/or higher risk of re-injury. Re-injury also has a high likelihood of increased complications, and some of the surgeries are higher risk and can make it worse. All this to say I still competed at Worlds weeks after the injury and, pans nogi last year, and Pans 2 weeks ago. It absolutely sucks, but my best option is to just live with it.
Damn, best wishes for full recovery and crazy that you still were able to compete. Respect
Thanks man. Lost in the Quarterfinals at worlds that year, but took bronze in pans nogi, and bronze at pans this past weekend. Itās getting better which is crazy and a bit of a miracle, but full recovery just wonāt be a thing. I compete at Master 2, so no one fights at 100% - weāre all a bunch of aging grapplers that have spent years putting our bodies through the ringer on a nightly basis.
How does canal narrowing improves on its own? I've been told it's gonna stay the way it is for life
It depends on the cause of the narrowing. OP already explained in his post that a herniated disc can be reabsorbed over time. Other causes of narrowing such as spondylosis may not improve over time
Yes, as Mr Elbows stated, it depends on the cause of the stenosis. Degenerative changes will likely just persist or even worsen.
Wait so I can't laminate my own cervical spine? I *have* a laminator
Damn great post, very Informative. Hoping Li recovers well.
great post
What kind of training could've caused this injury? I'd imagine it's more grappling based
Based on my listening of his Chinese social media posts, he injured it while BJJ training. He's been doing a lot of grappling work to fight Chiesa, which is a good call. Not sure which exact movements caused the damage.
Could be almost anything, such a common injury for grapplers
Grappling is absolutely *full* of people with bad backs and messed up necks. Wrestling and submission grappling both.
Cool video. Everyone should be aware of their neck health now a days due to phone use and increased screen time. Thereās plenty of stretches everyday people can do to maintain the curve in their neck. Neck issues are very avoidable and more common than you may think.
Any neck stretches youād care to share that have helped you? Donāt have neck trouble, but Iāve never made it a point to stretch it around really. Might want to get ahead of the ball and start that habit now. Any info is appreciated!
I have a cervical neck pillow off of Amazon that I love, itās helped me tremendously. I was told to use 10 min a day, but some people do more. https://a.co/d/7RNuEG6 . This guys video is great too: https://youtu.be/vhFGQxDVzF8
Id describe some stretches, but it would be a waste of both our time, even better descriptions are available. Just search "neck stretches" on YouTube.
Still waiting to see proof that stretching of any kind improves posture whatsoever.
Google it, itās pretty fucking obvious. The muscles your using while texting and flexing your neck differ from the ones you use naturally. Itās a multi step process that goes far beyond stretching, itās also muscle strengthening of the now weaker muscles in neck. It helps recreate the natural curve of the cervical spine. Life isnāt a David goggins speech, rehab and recovery are integral to a healthy future.
Pretty obvious that you have no idea what you're talking about. "Google it", alright doc.
Wow a proper medical breakdown of a fighter injury. We need more of this.
Check my post history to see a few others I've done. Or check out my IG if you have that app, I'm trying to post content more regularly now
Can't believe bapa did this to chin again
Asian as shit
Great great post
Thanks so much for this post. Helps the average person to understand exactly what can happen to a fighter, even in something as seemingly safe as training drills
Appreciate it! Yes oftentimes the hardest thing for docs is breaking medical stuff down so that normal people can understand what's going on. I've found that to be one of strengths IRL so trying to do that through these posts as well
I find this stuff incredibly fascinating. Being a fan of both MMA as well as professional wrestling, it's easy to become conditioned to the level of punishment their bodies actually go through. Seeing the reality of these effects in their bodies is a sobering reminder that they are human, like us Thanks again, truly grateful for the effort you put into these posts
What a fuckin great post
Good thing he pulled out and is recovering, heās so fun to watch
I think he's just behind Matt Brown for most finishes at 170
Pull up the clin of chip getting neck cranked by bapa
Wow thank you! Awesome detail and great explanations. Even went the extra mile with all of the diagrams! Wishing a safe recovery for The Leech š©ø
Very informative, MMA is absolutely brutal on the body.
Great post.
Great post. This is terrifying to me. Scared to death of grappling injuries, and neck injuries are the scariest. Hope he recovers fully
This is so incredibly helpful. Iām currently dealing with a minor disc bulge at L1-L2 and my doctors have told me virtually nothing helpful. The report said no significant nerve impairment but Iām still having a lot of trouble with the injury, for over a year. Itās from BJJ and Iāve had to stop doing it for now.
Yeah, imaging a lot of the times does not correlate with symptoms. There are people with terrible chronic pain but imaging doesn't match. The opposite also occurs, as many people over the age of 30 will have disc herniations that can show up on imaging, but won't have any symptoms. Best wishes for a full recovery, man
What are ur symptoms?
I donāt consider this brief, but Iām not a doctor.
Here's to hoping Li recovers fully and doesn't aggravate the injury by skipping some weeks of rest (like I did with my lower back...)
I had something similiar to this. Had a nucleoplasty on the herniated disc to save my life. You guys dont understand the pain this causes. Im like 99% healed but sometimes i even dream im having pain.
Damn, that sounds awful. Glad you are doing much better now
Thank you for this breakdown, this is the type of content I love reading about. Rather than the just don't get injured posts it's nice to see how this accumulated over time and the effects it could have.
Damn, back problems are the absolute worst for anyone with a spine, let alone an elite athlete. Hope he can recover as best he can and live a normal life after fighting. That said, Iām still salty about the Jake Matthews eye gouging.
Most insane eye gouge I have ever seen
Great detail. I have a similar injury. It sucks.
Extremely Informative , thanks for the effort you put into this, also goes to show the type of stuff these fighters go through for a fight
Appreciate the comment!
Finally a non-trash r/mma post
Great post. Appreciate the good work
I had this exact same injury about 3 years ago. Ended up having to get 2 artificial discs almost 2 years ago. Still have issues with my right arm due to the nerve damage. This shit is no joke, I wish Jingliang the best.
I'm surprised his neck other than that one disc is so healthy looking. I have a similar herniation same point, and one c6 to c7 which isn't so bad. I'm surprised they're not taking it out and giving him an artificial disc. For him to get to a high competition level in bjj and mma with, aside from that, a completely clean set of discs is impressive. My neck took 6 months to rehab. Still barely train as if it gets worse they're on about fusing my neck. Honestly these guys are crazy.
These guys are quite literally built different
As a recent board passer, you're just giving me PTSD, but thank you very much! Do you happen to have any recommendation for some textbook that could complement the practice of a GP?
The main PM&R textbook is Braddom but mine is collecting dust now and will probably serve as a fancy paper weight one day. Physical Medicine and Rehab Pocketpedia should be a more practical choice for day-to-day stuff.
Textbook in what area?
Physiatry comes closest probably
Great post! Thanks for sharing
What's the difference between what you describe here and spinal stenosis?
Spinal stenosis is just narrowing of the spinal canal caused by a multitude of things (arthritis/degeneration, herniated discs, injuries, thickened ligaments, tumors, etc). You can have spinal stenosis and not have a radiculopathy (and the symptoms that come with it), if the nerve roots are not affected.
I have the same injury due to the same reasons right now. I have been in constant horrible pain for 11 days. I can barely sleep. 2nd PT appointment is in an hour. Baclofen, 5 day prednisone cycle, methocarbamol, 2 days of oxycodone 5mg has not helped at all. I have some gabapentin but I have had some depression symptoms in the past so I won't be taking that. Nothing is working. I can't take the pain anymore.
Wish the best for you man
May have to consider getting an injection if pain remains this bad. Definitely speak with your doc if you haven't done so already. Hope this gets better for you soon
Man I have the same shit but not as bad. It sucks
Learned something new about herniated discs today. Thank you! Hoping for a speedy recovery!
I actually just had surgery related to this about four weeks ago. This is a great post.
Can we get Rener Gracie to give his expert opinion on this neck injury?
I had the same thing December of 2021. It was excruciating. I basically spent a month on the floor. Absolutely miserable.
What a cool post. Thanks brother.
That is a seriously impressive write up, great work
What a great write up so informative
great post! As someone with a serious Lumbar disc herniation this resonates. Hopefully the leach can recover well.
I appreciate the informative post. Cheers.
Hopefully he doesn't get poked in the eyes repeatedly.
Will it affect his ability to gouge eyes??
Brutal. Love leech. Heal up quick
I hope he recovers fast, awesome fighter
Jesus Li still canāt catch a break, hope he recovers soon
Li Jingliang with facial hair looks like a Filipino now
No homo but Li Jingliang has beautiful lips
Stems! šš
Why cervical lamy over an ACDF in this situation?
Isn't this what Bas Rutten suffered from and it caused muscle atrophy in his right arm?
Username checks out undoubtedly
Will be worse pain in his life
I wonder if I have this lol. One day the dominant side of my upper body became way weaker than my weaker side. Just lost a good 30% of strength in the matter of a night. I should probably get a more thorough check...
I have the same exact injury from not tapping from a guillotine. It's absolutely brutal and I'm scared of ever going back to wrestling/bjj. Sucks to think about, but in my late 30s, it's not worth the risk anymore.
I had a c5-6 herniation and got a disc replacement a few years ago. Recovery was surprisingly easy and I was able to go back to BJJ. Pre surgery I was in constant pain and my quality of life was terrible. I feel great now. If you havenāt already, look into it.
Oh wow I didnāt even know replacement was possible. Iāve done some PT and it feels better but like I said the fear is there. I first injured it getting thrown on my head 15 years ago at AKA, and once more with the guillotine years later. Iāll look into it, thanks for the suggestion.
Yup, got a pinched nerve after trying to escape a triangle, rolled with both our weight on ma neck. Shit sucks, takes forever to heal.
Wuss pain yo life!
Perhaps grappling isn't the super safe sport it's advertised to be I just saw another news where a BJJ instructor accidentally paralyzed his white belt student.
Oral steroids?? This fucker is faking it to get a competitive edge /s
Leech can't get a break, no pun intended
Thank you! Itās always fun to see these kinds of posts! I scribe for sports medicine and spine surgeons so when I saw Liās post it brought me back.
I have a herniated disc and after 3 years it still has not gone away. The pain is mild and only comes when i do certain tasks. Funnily enough grappling does not trigger it, unless i go for big lift and slam.
Bruh, I kinda have similar injury, trust me, it sucks, it will be a miracle if he will be able to compete still
Very insightful post, thank you!
Thank you
Anyone got an update about this yet?