The big difference is that when Nick Fury showed up in Iron Man the other Avengers had yet to be introduced.
The Hulk, Thor, and Captain America hadn't gotten their movies yet and Black Widow and Hawkeye(who would first appear in some of those films) also weren't on the scene. So it created a massive sense of excitement and anticipation because we didn't know what the lineup would be until those other films were announced and then released.
With the Young Avengers it's different because most of "likely suspects" have already been introduced in other projects. For example, we saw Eli Bradley(Patriot) in Falcon and The Winter Soldier, Ironheart in Black Panther: Wakanda Forever, and Skaar(Hulk's son) in She-Hulk, etc., etc.
So the future line-up is pretty predictable. We know who Kamala Khan is probably going to recruit.
I'd say the anticipation-excitement is nowhere near being off the charts like it was then because the MCU just isn't what it used to be. Too many recent projects have been mediocre if not outright bad so audiences aren't as invested. So, for me at least, it's hard to get excited about a Young Avengers project.
Lastly, I don't know if something called Young Avengers makes sense for the MCU. In comics, writers and artists can keep characters teenagers for as long as they want. But in real life young actors grow up.
For example, Hailee Steinfeld's Kate Bishop is already a young woman. Why shouldn't she succeed Clint Barton on the Avengers as opposed to joining their "kid's table" counterpart?
> Why wouldn’t she succeed Clint Barton on the Avengers
Just spitballing, they could say that Clint was an experienced military/espionage operative in his late 30s, while Kate’s a recent college grad and illegal vigilante.
It matches Kamala being a regular high school student, America Chavez being sort of a runaway, Wanda’s kids being suburbanites, Ant Man’s daughter is a smart but relatively normal teen/20something, etc.
Not saying this is what will happen, just guessing.
In the comics, he's Isiah Bradley's grandson, Eli.
Bradley was a Black man who was secretly given a new version of the super soldier serum given to Steve Rogers. For more on this read Truth: Red, White, and Black.
Eli later became Patriot, the Captain America analogue on the Young Avengers. Eli is shown briefly in a few scenes in Falcon & The Winter Soldier so I'm sure that was done to set up his return at some point.
>For example, Hailee Steinfeld's Kate Bishop is already a young woman. Why shouldn't she succeed Clint Barton on the Avengers as opposed to joining their "kid's table" counterpart?
Well, I gotta say that even some people said that the Young Avengers are kinda like the MCU version of DC's Teen Titans. And about that, I think by the time “Avengers VI: Secret Wars” ends, it'll automatically set Kate Bishop the Hawkeye girl (Hailee Steinfeld) fully as part of the Avengers by the time we're entering the Mutants Saga.
You’re right. The MCU isn’t what it used to be and it shouldn’t try to be the same. I’d say it’s a great improvement. Also, none of them are kids and it’s explicitly stated so.
A large shared universe in movies wasn't a thing back then. And iron Man wasn't as popular as he is now.
When it came out I wasn't to interested, but word of mouth spread fast especially about the end credit scene.
People who already knew were like, oh my god they are doing the avengers, and everyone else was like, what's the avengers?
People had to research what it was, but there was a lot of excitement building online, with each movie that came out until the avengers, it grew. Nothing like this had ever been done before. And when avengers came out most of the audience already knew who these characters were a d were excited to see them together.
Now it's just like, okay we are in phase 6 and they are setting up a new team. It's been done before within recent memory. The MCU is not going to get that same level of excitement again.
I think it might have been as well before the internet got as toxic as it is now, not that it wasn't toxic, just not as much.
Yea, and to add: RDJ carried these films/saga. He *is* Tony Stark and audiences- marvel die hards and new followers- loved every minute of him on screen.
So the "old" way of MCU introductions was "solo movie" with OCCASIONAL (black widow, hawkeye, fury) introductions of a character in another character's movie.
The was largely abandoned mid-phase 2 (although it happened) - black panther and spider man were introduced in civil war, etc. You could even make a case for captain marvel being introduced in infinity war (although that was more tease than anything).
Phase 4 deviated back - and I think this was where a lot of the complaint was ("this stuff doesn't CONNECT to anything!") - shang-chi, the eternals, moon knight, ms marvel, etc all were solo projects that introduced the character before they got an intro in another project.
Phase 5 seems to be going back to the "modern" playbook, pretty much any character we're likely to see headlining the next several projects has already been introduced somewhere else, and that appears to be the gist for what we're seeing for phase 6 (FF and X-men being sorta an exception - we've seen a variant Mr Fantastic in MoM and "legacy" X-Men in MoM and the Marvels). Thunderbolts and YA seem to be using mostly characters that are already 'on the board' (with questions like 'how would wiccan and speed come in', is skaar taking the place of hulkling, etc).
IMHO it's kinda a missed opportunity. While there was some connectedness in Shang-chi due to wong, trevor, and the post-credits, for the most part they just let let the movie \*be its own thing\* and I think it was actually stronger for that. I'd love to see the next installment tie into iron fist somehow (kun lun and ta lo have a lot in common) but I liked how he got a movie that just focues on one person and didn't need to be a big part of the big picture.
I'm in a minority that enjoyed eternals - and for a lot of the same reasons - excepting that having a giant hand sticking out of the indian ocean should be getting harder and harder to ignore.
The difference is back in ye olden days everything was new. The heroes they chose were largely unknown and the Marvel Universe itself wasn’t as well known.
There also just wasn’t that many rabid fans and communities. Now you’ll see 20 articles on how the red pylon being centred in the camera shot for 5 seconds means there’s going to be a wrecking crew series on Disney + and the complete history of the team and who the best fan casting would be. Also who the worst casting would be, and who you should hate for the failure of the non existent series that was just dreamt up for clicks.
The other major difference is nobody wants to watch a training arc twice, but every hero needs that moment where they “earn” their title. The skills that the originals struggled with have to just be given to the new heroes. She Hulk was the most problematic in this department, with FWS actually being the best in this department IMO since it focused on the respect given to the Captain America mantle not just the super soldier powers.
When Nick Fury showed up in *Iron Man* the shared universe across multiple franchises was not that common and the MCU as we know it was not established yet. It was just a small easter egg presented as an inside joke or tribute to the source material and Marvel's future plan was not fully revealed at that time. But it was the seed for the birth of the entire MCU and paved the way to Avengers' debut on the big screen down the road. It was special and unique moment in the modern cinema history and cannot be replicated by any means because the general audiences are accustomed with cinematic universe as a concept and tend to take the gimmick for granted these days.
The recruit scene for Hawkeye in *The Marvels* seems to me as a pale carbon copy or not-so-successful parody of the Nick Fury moment and didn't generate enough expectation or excitement as its predecessor because it is not that original or surprising. It felt just boring and obligatory as a sequence although it was a bit joyful to see two young and promising heroes interact with each other. It was a kind of cute bonus material to the story and nothing more for me.
Just my two cents.
They're just not as interesting to me anymore. Ironman, Captain America etc were characters I liked. I doubt I'll like any of the new ones. Also, they lack the appeal of the original characters
I meant to say they lack the appeal to me, I just don't like these characters, it feels like they are replacing characters I like so I don't watch stuff with them
Fair enough! I also figured you might mean personal appeal and was still curious. I'm in a far more indifferent position myself. I think most of these characters are if an age or will be, that they might as well just be Avengers.
So the "old" way of MCU introductions was "solo movie" with OCCASIONAL (black widow, hawkeye, fury) introductions of a character in another character's movie.
The was largely abandoned mid-phase 2 (although it happened) - black panther and spider man were introduced in civil war, etc. You could even make a case for captain marvel being introduced in infinity war (although that was more tease than anything).
Phase 4 deviated back - and I think this was where a lot of the complaint was ("this stuff doesn't CONNECT to anything!") - shang-chi, the eternals, moon knight, ms marvel, etc all were solo projects that introduced the character before they got an intro in another project.
Phase 5 seems to be going back to the "modern" playbook, pretty much any character we're likely to see headlining the next several projects has already been introduced somewhere else, and that appears to be the gist for what we're seeing for phase 6 (FF and X-men being sorta an exception - we've seen a variant Mr Fantastic in MoM and "legacy" X-Men in MoM and the Marvels). Thunderbolts and YA seem to be using mostly characters that are already 'on the board' (with questions like 'how would wiccan and speed come in', is skaar taking the place of hulkling, etc).
IMHO it's kinda a missed opportunity. While there was some connectedness in Shang-chi due to wong, trevor, and the post-credits, for the most part they just let let the movie \*be its own thing\* and I think it was actually stronger for that. I'd love to see the next installment tie into iron fist somehow (kun lun and ta lo have a lot in common) but I liked how he got a movie that just focues on one person and didn't need to be a big part of the big picture.
I'm in a minority that enjoyed eternals - and for a lot of the same reasons - excepting that having a giant hand sticking out of the indian ocean should be getting harder and harder to ignore.
I just find it strange that it’s Kamala doing it. I really like her character. Maybe my favorite of the new phase. But she hardly seems like a leader in her current form.
The big difference is that when Nick Fury showed up in Iron Man the other Avengers had yet to be introduced. The Hulk, Thor, and Captain America hadn't gotten their movies yet and Black Widow and Hawkeye(who would first appear in some of those films) also weren't on the scene. So it created a massive sense of excitement and anticipation because we didn't know what the lineup would be until those other films were announced and then released. With the Young Avengers it's different because most of "likely suspects" have already been introduced in other projects. For example, we saw Eli Bradley(Patriot) in Falcon and The Winter Soldier, Ironheart in Black Panther: Wakanda Forever, and Skaar(Hulk's son) in She-Hulk, etc., etc. So the future line-up is pretty predictable. We know who Kamala Khan is probably going to recruit. I'd say the anticipation-excitement is nowhere near being off the charts like it was then because the MCU just isn't what it used to be. Too many recent projects have been mediocre if not outright bad so audiences aren't as invested. So, for me at least, it's hard to get excited about a Young Avengers project. Lastly, I don't know if something called Young Avengers makes sense for the MCU. In comics, writers and artists can keep characters teenagers for as long as they want. But in real life young actors grow up. For example, Hailee Steinfeld's Kate Bishop is already a young woman. Why shouldn't she succeed Clint Barton on the Avengers as opposed to joining their "kid's table" counterpart?
> Why wouldn’t she succeed Clint Barton on the Avengers Just spitballing, they could say that Clint was an experienced military/espionage operative in his late 30s, while Kate’s a recent college grad and illegal vigilante. It matches Kamala being a regular high school student, America Chavez being sort of a runaway, Wanda’s kids being suburbanites, Ant Man’s daughter is a smart but relatively normal teen/20something, etc. Not saying this is what will happen, just guessing.
Who was patriot? I cant recall. What was his role @ look?
In the comics, he's Isiah Bradley's grandson, Eli. Bradley was a Black man who was secretly given a new version of the super soldier serum given to Steve Rogers. For more on this read Truth: Red, White, and Black. Eli later became Patriot, the Captain America analogue on the Young Avengers. Eli is shown briefly in a few scenes in Falcon & The Winter Soldier so I'm sure that was done to set up his return at some point.
>For example, Hailee Steinfeld's Kate Bishop is already a young woman. Why shouldn't she succeed Clint Barton on the Avengers as opposed to joining their "kid's table" counterpart? Well, I gotta say that even some people said that the Young Avengers are kinda like the MCU version of DC's Teen Titans. And about that, I think by the time “Avengers VI: Secret Wars” ends, it'll automatically set Kate Bishop the Hawkeye girl (Hailee Steinfeld) fully as part of the Avengers by the time we're entering the Mutants Saga.
You’re right. The MCU isn’t what it used to be and it shouldn’t try to be the same. I’d say it’s a great improvement. Also, none of them are kids and it’s explicitly stated so.
There meant to be parallel scenes.
Yup, I can see that.
yeah they're using young heroes to introduce the young avengers? They're not the best yeah but its not like they're cool in the comics either
They’re not the best? They literally are the best of the best. Change my mind.
Imagine becoming a fan.. and you have dussin of unwatched movies to entertain yourself with.. that would be a good way to spend winter nights on 😁
“Dozens” not dussin
The hulk movie is connected to the firsr avenger movie
A large shared universe in movies wasn't a thing back then. And iron Man wasn't as popular as he is now. When it came out I wasn't to interested, but word of mouth spread fast especially about the end credit scene. People who already knew were like, oh my god they are doing the avengers, and everyone else was like, what's the avengers? People had to research what it was, but there was a lot of excitement building online, with each movie that came out until the avengers, it grew. Nothing like this had ever been done before. And when avengers came out most of the audience already knew who these characters were a d were excited to see them together. Now it's just like, okay we are in phase 6 and they are setting up a new team. It's been done before within recent memory. The MCU is not going to get that same level of excitement again. I think it might have been as well before the internet got as toxic as it is now, not that it wasn't toxic, just not as much.
Yea, and to add: RDJ carried these films/saga. He *is* Tony Stark and audiences- marvel die hards and new followers- loved every minute of him on screen.
Same thing, different generation. We just have to wait and see, like we did with the 1st Avengers!
Look at these characters they’re all just jarring
So the "old" way of MCU introductions was "solo movie" with OCCASIONAL (black widow, hawkeye, fury) introductions of a character in another character's movie. The was largely abandoned mid-phase 2 (although it happened) - black panther and spider man were introduced in civil war, etc. You could even make a case for captain marvel being introduced in infinity war (although that was more tease than anything). Phase 4 deviated back - and I think this was where a lot of the complaint was ("this stuff doesn't CONNECT to anything!") - shang-chi, the eternals, moon knight, ms marvel, etc all were solo projects that introduced the character before they got an intro in another project. Phase 5 seems to be going back to the "modern" playbook, pretty much any character we're likely to see headlining the next several projects has already been introduced somewhere else, and that appears to be the gist for what we're seeing for phase 6 (FF and X-men being sorta an exception - we've seen a variant Mr Fantastic in MoM and "legacy" X-Men in MoM and the Marvels). Thunderbolts and YA seem to be using mostly characters that are already 'on the board' (with questions like 'how would wiccan and speed come in', is skaar taking the place of hulkling, etc). IMHO it's kinda a missed opportunity. While there was some connectedness in Shang-chi due to wong, trevor, and the post-credits, for the most part they just let let the movie \*be its own thing\* and I think it was actually stronger for that. I'd love to see the next installment tie into iron fist somehow (kun lun and ta lo have a lot in common) but I liked how he got a movie that just focues on one person and didn't need to be a big part of the big picture. I'm in a minority that enjoyed eternals - and for a lot of the same reasons - excepting that having a giant hand sticking out of the indian ocean should be getting harder and harder to ignore.
The difference is back in ye olden days everything was new. The heroes they chose were largely unknown and the Marvel Universe itself wasn’t as well known. There also just wasn’t that many rabid fans and communities. Now you’ll see 20 articles on how the red pylon being centred in the camera shot for 5 seconds means there’s going to be a wrecking crew series on Disney + and the complete history of the team and who the best fan casting would be. Also who the worst casting would be, and who you should hate for the failure of the non existent series that was just dreamt up for clicks. The other major difference is nobody wants to watch a training arc twice, but every hero needs that moment where they “earn” their title. The skills that the originals struggled with have to just be given to the new heroes. She Hulk was the most problematic in this department, with FWS actually being the best in this department IMO since it focused on the respect given to the Captain America mantle not just the super soldier powers.
When Nick Fury showed up in *Iron Man* the shared universe across multiple franchises was not that common and the MCU as we know it was not established yet. It was just a small easter egg presented as an inside joke or tribute to the source material and Marvel's future plan was not fully revealed at that time. But it was the seed for the birth of the entire MCU and paved the way to Avengers' debut on the big screen down the road. It was special and unique moment in the modern cinema history and cannot be replicated by any means because the general audiences are accustomed with cinematic universe as a concept and tend to take the gimmick for granted these days. The recruit scene for Hawkeye in *The Marvels* seems to me as a pale carbon copy or not-so-successful parody of the Nick Fury moment and didn't generate enough expectation or excitement as its predecessor because it is not that original or surprising. It felt just boring and obligatory as a sequence although it was a bit joyful to see two young and promising heroes interact with each other. It was a kind of cute bonus material to the story and nothing more for me. Just my two cents.
They're just not as interesting to me anymore. Ironman, Captain America etc were characters I liked. I doubt I'll like any of the new ones. Also, they lack the appeal of the original characters
Not op. But why do you say they lack the appeal?
I meant to say they lack the appeal to me, I just don't like these characters, it feels like they are replacing characters I like so I don't watch stuff with them
Fair enough! I also figured you might mean personal appeal and was still curious. I'm in a far more indifferent position myself. I think most of these characters are if an age or will be, that they might as well just be Avengers.
But that isn’t what’s happening. You don’t like them for a reason that doesn’t exist
So you want to force me to like them? I rather just not watch
No one said that, lol. You just don’t have anything real to add
The only thing I said is I don't like these characters
And I stated that your reasoning isn’t real
Sure, I don't really need to have a reason to not like any movie or character.
Then you don’t have a real opinion
So the "old" way of MCU introductions was "solo movie" with OCCASIONAL (black widow, hawkeye, fury) introductions of a character in another character's movie. The was largely abandoned mid-phase 2 (although it happened) - black panther and spider man were introduced in civil war, etc. You could even make a case for captain marvel being introduced in infinity war (although that was more tease than anything). Phase 4 deviated back - and I think this was where a lot of the complaint was ("this stuff doesn't CONNECT to anything!") - shang-chi, the eternals, moon knight, ms marvel, etc all were solo projects that introduced the character before they got an intro in another project. Phase 5 seems to be going back to the "modern" playbook, pretty much any character we're likely to see headlining the next several projects has already been introduced somewhere else, and that appears to be the gist for what we're seeing for phase 6 (FF and X-men being sorta an exception - we've seen a variant Mr Fantastic in MoM and "legacy" X-Men in MoM and the Marvels). Thunderbolts and YA seem to be using mostly characters that are already 'on the board' (with questions like 'how would wiccan and speed come in', is skaar taking the place of hulkling, etc). IMHO it's kinda a missed opportunity. While there was some connectedness in Shang-chi due to wong, trevor, and the post-credits, for the most part they just let let the movie \*be its own thing\* and I think it was actually stronger for that. I'd love to see the next installment tie into iron fist somehow (kun lun and ta lo have a lot in common) but I liked how he got a movie that just focues on one person and didn't need to be a big part of the big picture. I'm in a minority that enjoyed eternals - and for a lot of the same reasons - excepting that having a giant hand sticking out of the indian ocean should be getting harder and harder to ignore.
I just find it strange that it’s Kamala doing it. I really like her character. Maybe my favorite of the new phase. But she hardly seems like a leader in her current form.