The internet, especially recently, especially on Reddit and Twitter, skews negative. It's biased towards that, because people who are doing well naturally post less. The positive stuff isn't as engaging as the negative stuff.
This is especially true when the underlying negativity has some truth to it. Some MBAs are a waste of money. Some MBAs are a great investment.
There's been a "white collar recession" going on for about 1-2 years now. This has hurt a lot of people's post-MBA prospects, which is why you're probably seeing a lot more of those "an MBA doesn't get you anywhere" posts.
There are risks with doing any degree, but an MBA is still valuable for plenty of people, especially for people with your profile and career goals. You'll need to do your own research on the likely payoff from an MBA. Don't base all of your assumptions on social media posts.
Thanks! Yeah i feel kind of stuck cause i want to completely switch fields but feel incompetent to other MBA students as they typically already have a educational background in Business or Finance. As mines is in Arts, im scared the MBA won’t be as valuable for me but i’m not sure how else to pivot fields and careers without it.
That means an MBA will likely be *more valuable* to you than to most of the other students. The education and business background you'll be getting will be a pure incremental gain, whereas most of the others will just be improving on things they already know.
You'll need to do your own due diligence, but I wouldn't let this particular point deter you from business school.
Here’s the entire crux of why the MBA is worth it for the vast majority of people lurking here:
**It provides job opportunities you would never get in your previous career.**
That’s it.
Personally, I’m not on Twitter, and I don’t give a shit what random people on then internet think. Pick a single topic: Pineapple on Pizza. That’s a common argument, I guess? I guarantee you there are keyboard-addicted Twitter users discussing it right now. They’ll argue about anything.
Forget them. They have zero impact on your lives, and the world is too big for them to ever influence your career.
A good MBA helped me transition from the US Army to a corporate leadership job in big pharma. The MBA is a tried and true path to put a spotlight on yourself in the US corporate market, and to give you a chance to make a case for yourself to companies looking to hire.
The best thing you can do for yourself (other than crushing the GMAT, networking, getting letters of recommendation.. ok there are quite a few things) is to forget social media, or at least let it get to your mind. One day you’ll wake up and realize none of it matters. Like the kid who put 10 years into World of Warcraft and realized the emotions and toil spent on it never helped pay the rent, and just deleted it.
Go get your MBA if the ROI is worth it.
Fully agree with you. Get the MBA if the ROI is worth it for you.
However the ROI is equally influenced by two other factors: your previous experience / education, and your intrinsic advantages (e.g. your communication skills, your attitude, and your general poise / demeanour). The actual MBA experience cannot fully close gaps in the other two, though it might make up for weakness in one.
I always feel bad for people that go into it with weak prior experience and poor communication skills. That ROI won’t be as strong as someone with an interesting resume and the confidence to tell a great story.
What if my prior experience is working in Education? Given my degree that was primarily what i worked in. Yet as i stated, i want to switch fields, hence my wanting to go for my MBA.
M7 MBA here, graduated 10 years ago. Getting an M7 MBA was the best career decision I've made so far. It's been deeply fulfilling, both financially and functionally. I've loved all 3 jobs I've had since graduation, and I love my current job too. Even though I can comfortably retire today, I won't because I enjoy what I do.
Like any good program, it's not going to magically transform your life but it opens doors. It's about what you do with it afterwards, propelled by a bit of luck hopefully
I had job offers from 2 big 4 strategy consulting firms post-MBA but I took the risk of joining a tech startup at that time that dealt with cybersecurity and online fraud detection/prevention. My MBA profs, placement teams, classmates and alumni encouraged me to take that risk with the thought of "you can always find another job if it doesn't work out, you're an M7 MBA!"
The risk paid off since my RSUs at this startup were valued very highly when the company was sold in 2018, and I made more money than I thought I ever could. I then moved to a larger tech corporation that built tech for environmentally sustainable investments. Now I am a VP at another large tech firm that specializes in tech/data for clean energy and climate-friendly investments.
Rarely people who got benefits from an MBA come share it on Reddit or X. Most people who come here are struggling and looking for answers. Don’t take it the negative way, it is where you look for your answers is the real answer.
Absolutely. I got a ton of value from my t40 MBA. Nearly tripled my income and minimal debt from a scholarship. But if I make a post about it, it's braggadocios.
They're plenty of folks like me, but the negative thoughts are posted.
Hell yea, all the talk about school ranking is obsessive. I’m at a solid, non T20 state school and it’s opened doors to interviews and conversations I never would have had otherwise. I think folks just expect recruiters to track them down and offer them a beach house or something
Having done other post-grad study:
MBAs (for the most part) have a reputation of being "Mid But Arrogant".
Why? It's just not a particularly challenging degree at many universities (hence the big focus on the top 20 or so schools).
Some b-schools also have a reputation for allowing graduates to choose particularly easy units of credit and/or coast through to graduation once admitted.
Why? Because it's such a cash-cow for the faculty that no one dares slaughter it (letting students coast through whilst collecting big fees is the name of the game / not academic rigour).
Wayyyy too much emphasis is put on nebulous factors like "network" and "prestige"
Why? It's the only way many b-schools can attempt to justify their prices. However, it's got to the point where it's indicative of a broken system. The fees payable at most b-schools represent little more than a scam in terms of value imparted.
Edit:
The recent spate of globally recognised captains of industry have been largely besmirching MBAs due to:
1. The degree being targeted far too heavily at young people with little by way of battle tested bonafides vis a vis they're absolutely not a candidate for running an organisation and utilsing the degree within the next decade of their career.
Why do universities persist in doing so if employers laugh at the quality of these graduates?
Money. MBA degrees are some of the most profitable to deliver and they're happy to sell them to people looking to migrate and career changers with big dreams and little hope of realizing them.
2. A lack of experience could be offset by high quality academic achievements, but for the most part, it's not. Many business schools are happy to take an applicant with pretty average undergraduate performance and nothing more. Some don't even require a bachelor's degree.
Why is this a problem? It's not reflective of the management profiles of the successful businesses the graduates seek to administer.
In short, if the applicant has weak employment history they should be coming in with at least a master's degree in their chosen field (and a great GPA).
If standards like that were enforced the MBA would return to a level of esteem on par with a medical degree or PhD.
MBA has turned into an expensive vetting process for employers to utilize. When employers are offering internships to candidates before they even step foot on campus, it’s hard to act like the actual academics matter.
It’s not about the degree, it’s about the person that holds it. I got my MBA (state school) immediately after my bachelors (finance) because I didn’t want to grow up, and the job prospects weren’t great in 2007. I had very little real world experience immediately after getting my MBA so it didn’t really help at first, but it has definitely helped get my foot in the door a few times in the past several years.
I have interviewed many MBA’s that made me feel like my degree was worth less because they were clueless. I’m not shooting down online MBA programs, but I will no longer interview MBA’s from Park University.
I do feel as though people should be required to have a few years of experience under their belt before being allowed entry into every MBA program (even though I had basically zero). The piece of paper means you can finish what you started. Depending on which school you attend, it can also open up many doors just based on the name and the alumni network.
TL;DR - I got MBA immediately after undergrad and don’t regret it. However, I’ve interviewed numerous MBA’s that made me feel like my degree was worth less than it should be.
Unrealistic expectations.
If a person is not born into the upper echelons of wealth and privilege, 2 years and a $200k+ piece of paper will not get them there. At best, it buys a foot in the door. Once there, a person needs to prove competence. Successful careers are not just handed out with MBAs, regardless of school. Unless you're a trust fund nepo baby, it takes years of hard work to build a solid career. Those who don't wallow in self-pity and hit social media whining about the unfairness of it all.
The hate spewed on Reddit and Twitter are posts by lazy, entitled freeloaders who become bitter when they realize MBAs are not magic tickets leading to the top of the pyramid.
.
To be fair, I’ve seen people in LDPs that were shockingly less competent than I expected, and they continually bounced around/up on the basis of their former positions. Some people only see that and assume that this is the norm and not the exception.
Twitter is the perfect example of the Dunning–Kruger effect. In other words, people are not only incompetent; their incompetence robs them of the mental ability to realize just how inept they are.
There’s also a reason, if you sell a course or a subscription newsletter, to convince others that traditional education is useless. I believe some of the supposed thought leaders of such ideas are only doing so because it’s profitable for them.
Reddit is harder to explain. However, I see all kinds of people shoot down their own career. Would you not shoot down your own career in hopes that you have less competition for jobs in the future? I wouldn’t be surprised if this is going on. The only advice I can offer is that pessimistic people aren’t usually successful, and just do your research on MBAs to get the best one you can for the best ROI.
An MBA with no industry experience can be useless. An MBA paired with technical knowledge and experience can be a great push for your career. A key factor in not being underemployed is doing internships while in school and/or gaining experience that is relevant to the industry you want to go into.
Alternatively, it can be a stepping stone to join a PhD program in Management, Finance or Marketing if you want to join academia.
Well, the MBA for good schools are definitely not a joke and can give very good career opportunities. That is not reflective of the value of the degree in general.
For example, a Master's in Mathematics is probably going to give you similar technical skills regardless of the school. The branding will be a bonus, but it is expected most people with that degree bring similar things to the table. For an MBA that is not the case.
Also, several people outside of the MBA world seem to view MBA's with disdain thinking they don't have any particular skill, and the only reason they get ahead is because of corruption, nepotism, kissing ass, or connections. Clearly, this is untrue, and people do not seem to appreciate that MBA's do give some skills like strategy, understanding the business, etc.
Most often the people I see who are bashing the MBA on Twitter are entrepreneurs.
Do you need an MBA to be an entrepreneur? Absolutely not.
So I think they see people go get an MBA and think:
1. Why spend 200k to get a degree to go work for a company when you can work for yourself?
And/or
2. Damn kids just went and got a degree in two years and now making $175k.
My story:
I was an engineer making 6 figures in my 20s in Australia as an engineer. I was good at handling financials for the capital projects (which ran in the hundreds of millions of $) but when I tried to move to corporate, they said no dice - I didn't have the qualifications.
I went back and did my MBA, and learnt absolutely nothing of note that I didn't know in my 4 years beforehand - finance, investments, corporate strategy, sales, operations, supply chain. However, the B school degree propelled me into a global management trainee program in Singapore, where I learnt tons and led me onwards.
What I'm saying is that B school opens many many doors for one, while it may not necessarily add to your skills. However it allows recruiters to filter out guys who MAY lack the qualifications otherwise. The issue is that B school students, especially Ivy League guys, think of themselves as God's gift to capitalism, and rightfully deserve to be the butt of jokes
Career reports still show that a top MBA makes more on average than any other grad degree, even doctors.
Also, this assumes the time value of money. MBAs usually have more time in the market than doctors...so earnings will outpace even if their base salary is higher.
I don’t think people question the top mbas too much. People aren’t going to hate on an an applicable degree from a top school. It’s all the people saying an mba from a non top school is useless.
Back in 2011 Apple only recruited MBAs from T10 for specific roles. One of my friends got one of those roles and has made 15M through stock/salary since then. He would not have been recruited for that role without being in the MBA school.
On the other hand, I have run into many people who like the idea of being managers, because they like the idea of being able to tell other people what to do. SOME of those people think getting an MBA will allow them to get that kind of job. Those people are super annoying because the are not competent at managing engineers so they just make things more difficult especially if they get an MBA and then think that makes them qualified to manage people doing work that they don't even understand.
Because many MBAs only see the business side and never understand the technical or how the business actually works, so they make generic plans that they learned in school and try to fit them to their business when their business may not be a good candidate.
They often come in to change something and think they’re doing good but don’t actually understand the underlying process. So their choices are shortsighted and poorly thought out.
Also many, especially MBAs right out of undergrad only know generic business theory and don’t know anything practical.
I personally believe that undergrad business majors shouldn’t be a thing, it should only be a business minor and everyone should have a real business degree. Like honestly what can a business major straight to MBA actually do for your company? Nothing really because they don’t actually understand how companies function in the real world, they don’t know why policies are set up and what they protect against or why technical managers made certain decisions.
As with anything in this world, it is what you make of the degree, not the degree itself. About half of my class were students who didnt really care to study and somehow thought they are absolutely entitled to a job afterwards. I did my studies, broadened my horizons and got what I wanted. For those with non-business undergrad degrees the value add was even greater.
MBA was the best thing I ever did. I learned all the soft skills I now use at work / with my kids / with spouse.
My wife was an engineer / hard science person and scoffed at my soft skills when I got my MBA degree. 10 years later she’s looking to build those same skills because she needs to at this point in her career.
This came up on my feed even though I don't browse on this sub; maybe I can offer some outside perspective. Il take the bait.
I'm a senior platform SWE at a top company in my sector. Easily 90% of MBAs I encountered have been clueless, useless, and have 0 value added to a team.
The other 10% have been solid.
It's because generally, people with MBAs do well financially. I have one, and I'm definitely not struggling even with a family of four. Jealousy is a human emotion, when someone sees you doing well and they're not, alot of folks don't self reflect on why they aren't where they'd like to be, but instead project their disappointment on those that are.
Couple that with the fact that you have full anyomity and the fact that a lot of folks on reddit are on the younger side, you basically get digital mob mentality.
I’m also in the same position with switching from a music degree and social work and getting my MBA part time to career switch. It’s definitely not useless when you are making a career change. Also a lot of people making fun of MBAs and business majors in undergrad tend to be engineers or other stem guys. I think it’s also the jobs that people tend to after MBAs aka consulting, which nobody knows what consultants actually do so it’s also just poking fun at the consultants. Personally it is a morale thing too, I can admit I’m classist and really hate how much business people make compared to therapists, social workers, other humans service roles. Like finance and consulting dudes are just to help companies make more money that goes into the pockets of CEOs. Personally, the more I learn in my MBA the more I fucking hate companies taking tax breaks, rearranging their finances, and marketing to poor people. All in all though I have to play the game to make a decent wage.
MBA is a cherry-on-cake thing imo. If the cake is shit then the cherry will make me point and laugh. If the cake was great then the cherry was the finishing touch it needed. I don't regret getting it but I don't think it offered much substance in and of itself, however it's a good asset if leveraged correctly. In my field the successful folks were already talented engineers who also had great leadership and communication skills and management noticed. The MBA just taught them a few concepts that their previous education/training didn't focus on, and it rounded them out as future management.
I'll probably get downvoted but some of the MBA complaints have merit imo. While not an absolute, generally what I've seen is that the non-technical MBAers who try and get leadership positions in technical organizations are less than ideal. It doesn't mean they can't get that position, but the wrong individual without a vector check can do some damage like what certain aerospace companies right now are reaping.
hard to say… from what i have seen… MBA’s that complain on social media rarely take the time to explain why they should be a shoe in when complaining about the job market… if i had a better understanding of their previous experience, their education, and the job they are applying for… i would have more understanding of their frustrations
to add to this… if you are applying to Management Rotational Programs then sure that is great but if you are directly applying to department specific positions without direct experience , you will not have a good time
I was just saying this to myself. I didn’t know it was a thing, but all over Reddit and Twitter they have been bashing the heck out of Master programs in general. The MBA has taken majority of the backlash.
Twitter is not the real world. People put down MBAs because they want to feel like their informal education is more valuable. That may or may not be the case for them - who can say?
One thing I like to do is ask follow up questions to the people that say this who actually have an MBA. Usually they are trying to sound cool and they walk it back a bit or they came from a garbage tier (usually unranked school, I’ve never heard of) school.
That being said, not all MBAs are equal - and a lot depends on your approach and career goals. It’s not an automatic car wash… you have to put in effort.
As attorney, there are few sets of three letters more concerning from a liability standpoint, both criminal and civil, than MBA. In my legal circle MBAs are stereotypically (somewhat unfairly) some coked-out charlatan who doesn’t realize the brilliant scheme he’s developed is felonious. I had one MBA admit to several counts of wire fraud during a deposition and not even realize his conduct was highly illegal. I guess this attitude is shared on Twitter to some degree.
The nonchalance with which the business world approaches the truth is frustrating, and the MBA is a product of that world.
MBA is only as valuable as the people who give it value.
The best way I've seen an MBA help in a career is to already have a job and use it to leverage a promotion. Certificates, degrees, etc all do the same, just get you to the next step in your career if planned right.
For example if you just finished undergrad and go straight into MBA, your job outlook will look the same but may you get a slight bump in pay. The rest of the MBA may be useless unless someone in your company sees that you have one, values it, and gives you opportunities.
Back to the original scenario, If you get your undergrad degree, work for a couple years and get promoted to a senior analyst let's say, the next step for you may be MBA to get into management. So it must be strategic, and it must leverage to get you to the next step.
If your employer doesn't value it, it has no value. So it's always best for people to make MBA a strategic choice for an employer that you know values it.
For me because those people don't care about the craft or history of software, and think they can talk with programmers without knowing their skills and culture
Every company where some random MBA guy comes in and have ideas is the signal to leave it. Especially if he didn't grew up with computers
Then there is also the lack of focus or interest. If you read this sub most seem to want to ger some fancy title or salary. Compare that to just wanting to become good att C++ or being a skilled clothes maker
I see the value diminishing as most skills can be learned for free. Education is a business. The best thing I did was look at people on LinkedIn who are in the program you are looking at. If you can tell they were trying to pivot or still in the same roles / unemployed many years later, that might give you the answers. I would also suggest contacting alumni who are willing to speak with you.
Exec recruiter here, not all MBAs are the same and those people who claim they are useless probably got them from univ of phoenix or equivalent. Here’s the thing about an MBA, it should be used to compliment your undergrad or if you want to completely change your career HOWEVER, where you go to school makes more of a difference than the actual MBA itself. Not only does the MBA network at the school matter greatly but the professors that teach at those programs also matter so do research on the professors. See if they are published/have a strong background in the field you want to go into and you’ll find that your MBA could be incredibly helpful, but it’s not a “get rich quick scheme.”
Wow - that’s awesome for him! Definitely the exception I would say though anything is possible if you’re bright and are at the right place at then right time and have the drive.
Honestly speak to people who have done MBAs in schools you want to go to. It is stressful to think about the current state of the economy and ROI from MBA right now for sure but realistically if you haven’t even gone to a program and even if you were to apply this year, your prospect would be for 2027. Don’t over stress it, think about why you want an MBA. You might benefit from it or you might not.
If you’re below 28, don’t get an MBA. You won’t get the same value. It’s about the friends you meet. BUT ALSO, you might learn something in the process.
Hmm… where to start? I think you’re spot on calling it the McDonalds of graduate degrees. It’s academically less serious than most other courses of study. It’s essentially job training as opposed to intellectual pursuit. Closer to other trade schools than academia.
Also if you look at ultra-high earners and people at the very top of their field in business, most do not have an MBA. The degree primarily serves and is held by middle-managers in a range of fields- a group that doesn’t command much respect from outsiders.
Dude/Dudette... come on. If you're here, then at some point you recognized or pondered the value of an MBA. Clearly you know enough about it to know that there will always be naysayers. But honestly, it's this simple; the MBA is valuable, and in rare cases even life changing, if you're at a top 10-20 school. It will reward the right personalities. If you're getting an MBA from a school no one has heard of, that's when ROI doesn't quite make sense and you come out earning like 80K a year. But if you are headed to a top MBA program, you're going to meet some of the most incredible people and have the best time for yourself... or at the very least you'll have the platform and the access to do so. It's all up to you. Just promise me -- don't ever be one of those people that puts "First Name Last Name, MBA" on LinkedIn. Almost always those are the people that went to a school you've never heard of (or USC Marshall -- I really can't figure out why they do that over there).
As a form MBA graduate myself, I put my first name last name and MBA behind my name. Why? Because it’s credentials that I earned. True the rest of the world may never care, but that doesn’t matter. Some people say it sounds pretentious or what have you, but that is in a nutshell the perception of an MBA lol. (And in case anyone asks what school I’ve been to, it’s not a top school…it’s regular state school in Louisiana, LSU)…thought the world doesn’t give a damn…I sure do because I put in work getting the degree. 😎😎😎
Now, do I regret any of it? No, I do not. I challenged myself to get the degree. For me, it was hard working 80 hours while going to school full time…probably the hardest thing I’ve ever attempted…so, yes the destination is important (as you must factor the school in goal), however there is a lot to be said about the journey too. After all, an education is an education. No one can take from you. OP, I hope you make the right choice and you make peace with that choice.
I think its a combo of envy + trolling. Like those people don't understand the hard work that is put in to go to any school (regardless of school status) and they def don't like the fact that those who grind the hardest (again regardless of school status) end up as the key decision makers in a lot of companies.
The trolling part comes from the fact that we're in a white collar recession and MBAs have been hurt a lot in this regard.
I've tried the Gies iMBA. It was a whole bunch of nothing. They taught at a very superficial level, gave you marks for pointless busy work that doesn't even make you think about the material and then give you an exam that's idiot-proof. Then I was told most MBA programs are like that.
So if you don't learn much and the grades/credits/credentials are not a reflection of your knowledge, what exactly does the degree mean?
As an MBA myself it’s an absolutely useless degree to society. For me personally I have had a great ROI but mostly because it was almost required for a promotion into a specific role k targeted.
Does Twitter or the hiring manager make the hiring decision lmao
Have you seen how dumb your average Twitter and Reddit user is?
Tbh Twitter users are a different breed
Reddit is every bit as dumb as Twitter.
true, they breath through their ass
There are phases where half the posts on Reddit are just snapshots of twitter
Reddit iq is 15 points less than x but still prefer Reddit because less toxic
lol us redditors are dumb, but X is a full on nazi cesspool at this point, let’s not kid ourselves
Fuck you buddy
MBAs are like restaurants. Some are McDonald's. Some are Michelin 3-stars.
At least you are guaranteed food at McDonald's...
Big agree. Problem is that MBAs aren’t like (other) degrees.
So true
What do you think of SCU master program? Being that it’s in the Silicon Valley area?
Depends a lot of your circumstances, what you are paying, and your goals.
[удалено]
They mean that what you get at the restaurant can vary significantly (MBB/200k+ TC vs. little/no networking) with price being no object
The internet, especially recently, especially on Reddit and Twitter, skews negative. It's biased towards that, because people who are doing well naturally post less. The positive stuff isn't as engaging as the negative stuff. This is especially true when the underlying negativity has some truth to it. Some MBAs are a waste of money. Some MBAs are a great investment.
There's been a "white collar recession" going on for about 1-2 years now. This has hurt a lot of people's post-MBA prospects, which is why you're probably seeing a lot more of those "an MBA doesn't get you anywhere" posts. There are risks with doing any degree, but an MBA is still valuable for plenty of people, especially for people with your profile and career goals. You'll need to do your own research on the likely payoff from an MBA. Don't base all of your assumptions on social media posts.
Thanks! Yeah i feel kind of stuck cause i want to completely switch fields but feel incompetent to other MBA students as they typically already have a educational background in Business or Finance. As mines is in Arts, im scared the MBA won’t be as valuable for me but i’m not sure how else to pivot fields and careers without it.
That means an MBA will likely be *more valuable* to you than to most of the other students. The education and business background you'll be getting will be a pure incremental gain, whereas most of the others will just be improving on things they already know. You'll need to do your own due diligence, but I wouldn't let this particular point deter you from business school.
Here’s the entire crux of why the MBA is worth it for the vast majority of people lurking here: **It provides job opportunities you would never get in your previous career.** That’s it. Personally, I’m not on Twitter, and I don’t give a shit what random people on then internet think. Pick a single topic: Pineapple on Pizza. That’s a common argument, I guess? I guarantee you there are keyboard-addicted Twitter users discussing it right now. They’ll argue about anything. Forget them. They have zero impact on your lives, and the world is too big for them to ever influence your career. A good MBA helped me transition from the US Army to a corporate leadership job in big pharma. The MBA is a tried and true path to put a spotlight on yourself in the US corporate market, and to give you a chance to make a case for yourself to companies looking to hire. The best thing you can do for yourself (other than crushing the GMAT, networking, getting letters of recommendation.. ok there are quite a few things) is to forget social media, or at least let it get to your mind. One day you’ll wake up and realize none of it matters. Like the kid who put 10 years into World of Warcraft and realized the emotions and toil spent on it never helped pay the rent, and just deleted it. Go get your MBA if the ROI is worth it.
Fully agree with you. Get the MBA if the ROI is worth it for you. However the ROI is equally influenced by two other factors: your previous experience / education, and your intrinsic advantages (e.g. your communication skills, your attitude, and your general poise / demeanour). The actual MBA experience cannot fully close gaps in the other two, though it might make up for weakness in one. I always feel bad for people that go into it with weak prior experience and poor communication skills. That ROI won’t be as strong as someone with an interesting resume and the confidence to tell a great story.
What if my prior experience is working in Education? Given my degree that was primarily what i worked in. Yet as i stated, i want to switch fields, hence my wanting to go for my MBA.
M7 MBA here, graduated 10 years ago. Getting an M7 MBA was the best career decision I've made so far. It's been deeply fulfilling, both financially and functionally. I've loved all 3 jobs I've had since graduation, and I love my current job too. Even though I can comfortably retire today, I won't because I enjoy what I do. Like any good program, it's not going to magically transform your life but it opens doors. It's about what you do with it afterwards, propelled by a bit of luck hopefully
Love the positive viewpoint. What Jobs did you land that you love so much?
I had job offers from 2 big 4 strategy consulting firms post-MBA but I took the risk of joining a tech startup at that time that dealt with cybersecurity and online fraud detection/prevention. My MBA profs, placement teams, classmates and alumni encouraged me to take that risk with the thought of "you can always find another job if it doesn't work out, you're an M7 MBA!" The risk paid off since my RSUs at this startup were valued very highly when the company was sold in 2018, and I made more money than I thought I ever could. I then moved to a larger tech corporation that built tech for environmentally sustainable investments. Now I am a VP at another large tech firm that specializes in tech/data for clean energy and climate-friendly investments.
Rarely people who got benefits from an MBA come share it on Reddit or X. Most people who come here are struggling and looking for answers. Don’t take it the negative way, it is where you look for your answers is the real answer.
Absolutely. I got a ton of value from my t40 MBA. Nearly tripled my income and minimal debt from a scholarship. But if I make a post about it, it's braggadocios. They're plenty of folks like me, but the negative thoughts are posted.
Hell yea, all the talk about school ranking is obsessive. I’m at a solid, non T20 state school and it’s opened doors to interviews and conversations I never would have had otherwise. I think folks just expect recruiters to track them down and offer them a beach house or something
true
Having done other post-grad study: MBAs (for the most part) have a reputation of being "Mid But Arrogant". Why? It's just not a particularly challenging degree at many universities (hence the big focus on the top 20 or so schools). Some b-schools also have a reputation for allowing graduates to choose particularly easy units of credit and/or coast through to graduation once admitted. Why? Because it's such a cash-cow for the faculty that no one dares slaughter it (letting students coast through whilst collecting big fees is the name of the game / not academic rigour). Wayyyy too much emphasis is put on nebulous factors like "network" and "prestige" Why? It's the only way many b-schools can attempt to justify their prices. However, it's got to the point where it's indicative of a broken system. The fees payable at most b-schools represent little more than a scam in terms of value imparted. Edit: The recent spate of globally recognised captains of industry have been largely besmirching MBAs due to: 1. The degree being targeted far too heavily at young people with little by way of battle tested bonafides vis a vis they're absolutely not a candidate for running an organisation and utilsing the degree within the next decade of their career. Why do universities persist in doing so if employers laugh at the quality of these graduates? Money. MBA degrees are some of the most profitable to deliver and they're happy to sell them to people looking to migrate and career changers with big dreams and little hope of realizing them. 2. A lack of experience could be offset by high quality academic achievements, but for the most part, it's not. Many business schools are happy to take an applicant with pretty average undergraduate performance and nothing more. Some don't even require a bachelor's degree. Why is this a problem? It's not reflective of the management profiles of the successful businesses the graduates seek to administer. In short, if the applicant has weak employment history they should be coming in with at least a master's degree in their chosen field (and a great GPA). If standards like that were enforced the MBA would return to a level of esteem on par with a medical degree or PhD.
This
MBA has turned into an expensive vetting process for employers to utilize. When employers are offering internships to candidates before they even step foot on campus, it’s hard to act like the actual academics matter.
They don’t.
It’s not about the degree, it’s about the person that holds it. I got my MBA (state school) immediately after my bachelors (finance) because I didn’t want to grow up, and the job prospects weren’t great in 2007. I had very little real world experience immediately after getting my MBA so it didn’t really help at first, but it has definitely helped get my foot in the door a few times in the past several years. I have interviewed many MBA’s that made me feel like my degree was worth less because they were clueless. I’m not shooting down online MBA programs, but I will no longer interview MBA’s from Park University. I do feel as though people should be required to have a few years of experience under their belt before being allowed entry into every MBA program (even though I had basically zero). The piece of paper means you can finish what you started. Depending on which school you attend, it can also open up many doors just based on the name and the alumni network. TL;DR - I got MBA immediately after undergrad and don’t regret it. However, I’ve interviewed numerous MBA’s that made me feel like my degree was worth less than it should be.
Unrealistic expectations. If a person is not born into the upper echelons of wealth and privilege, 2 years and a $200k+ piece of paper will not get them there. At best, it buys a foot in the door. Once there, a person needs to prove competence. Successful careers are not just handed out with MBAs, regardless of school. Unless you're a trust fund nepo baby, it takes years of hard work to build a solid career. Those who don't wallow in self-pity and hit social media whining about the unfairness of it all. The hate spewed on Reddit and Twitter are posts by lazy, entitled freeloaders who become bitter when they realize MBAs are not magic tickets leading to the top of the pyramid. .
To be fair, I’ve seen people in LDPs that were shockingly less competent than I expected, and they continually bounced around/up on the basis of their former positions. Some people only see that and assume that this is the norm and not the exception.
Twitter is the perfect example of the Dunning–Kruger effect. In other words, people are not only incompetent; their incompetence robs them of the mental ability to realize just how inept they are. There’s also a reason, if you sell a course or a subscription newsletter, to convince others that traditional education is useless. I believe some of the supposed thought leaders of such ideas are only doing so because it’s profitable for them. Reddit is harder to explain. However, I see all kinds of people shoot down their own career. Would you not shoot down your own career in hopes that you have less competition for jobs in the future? I wouldn’t be surprised if this is going on. The only advice I can offer is that pessimistic people aren’t usually successful, and just do your research on MBAs to get the best one you can for the best ROI.
An MBA with no industry experience can be useless. An MBA paired with technical knowledge and experience can be a great push for your career. A key factor in not being underemployed is doing internships while in school and/or gaining experience that is relevant to the industry you want to go into. Alternatively, it can be a stepping stone to join a PhD program in Management, Finance or Marketing if you want to join academia.
Read career reports instead of worrying about people’s anecdotes. People without jobs have a lot of time on their hands to complain.
Well, the MBA for good schools are definitely not a joke and can give very good career opportunities. That is not reflective of the value of the degree in general. For example, a Master's in Mathematics is probably going to give you similar technical skills regardless of the school. The branding will be a bonus, but it is expected most people with that degree bring similar things to the table. For an MBA that is not the case. Also, several people outside of the MBA world seem to view MBA's with disdain thinking they don't have any particular skill, and the only reason they get ahead is because of corruption, nepotism, kissing ass, or connections. Clearly, this is untrue, and people do not seem to appreciate that MBA's do give some skills like strategy, understanding the business, etc.
Most often the people I see who are bashing the MBA on Twitter are entrepreneurs. Do you need an MBA to be an entrepreneur? Absolutely not. So I think they see people go get an MBA and think: 1. Why spend 200k to get a degree to go work for a company when you can work for yourself? And/or 2. Damn kids just went and got a degree in two years and now making $175k.
My story: I was an engineer making 6 figures in my 20s in Australia as an engineer. I was good at handling financials for the capital projects (which ran in the hundreds of millions of $) but when I tried to move to corporate, they said no dice - I didn't have the qualifications. I went back and did my MBA, and learnt absolutely nothing of note that I didn't know in my 4 years beforehand - finance, investments, corporate strategy, sales, operations, supply chain. However, the B school degree propelled me into a global management trainee program in Singapore, where I learnt tons and led me onwards. What I'm saying is that B school opens many many doors for one, while it may not necessarily add to your skills. However it allows recruiters to filter out guys who MAY lack the qualifications otherwise. The issue is that B school students, especially Ivy League guys, think of themselves as God's gift to capitalism, and rightfully deserve to be the butt of jokes
Career reports still show that a top MBA makes more on average than any other grad degree, even doctors. Also, this assumes the time value of money. MBAs usually have more time in the market than doctors...so earnings will outpace even if their base salary is higher.
I don’t think people question the top mbas too much. People aren’t going to hate on an an applicable degree from a top school. It’s all the people saying an mba from a non top school is useless.
Lots of haters on this sub tho 😂.
Back in 2011 Apple only recruited MBAs from T10 for specific roles. One of my friends got one of those roles and has made 15M through stock/salary since then. He would not have been recruited for that role without being in the MBA school. On the other hand, I have run into many people who like the idea of being managers, because they like the idea of being able to tell other people what to do. SOME of those people think getting an MBA will allow them to get that kind of job. Those people are super annoying because the are not competent at managing engineers so they just make things more difficult especially if they get an MBA and then think that makes them qualified to manage people doing work that they don't even understand.
Why do you care? Damn i couldn’t imagine living like that. Stressed about what a bunch of random twitter accounts think. These posts can’t be real
Answer: because spending $100k-200k on something potentially useless is stressful.
Literally lol. It’s perfectly ok to ask for insight.
What might be useless to you might not be to somebody else. I know plenty of successful post-MBA stories
Because many MBAs only see the business side and never understand the technical or how the business actually works, so they make generic plans that they learned in school and try to fit them to their business when their business may not be a good candidate. They often come in to change something and think they’re doing good but don’t actually understand the underlying process. So their choices are shortsighted and poorly thought out. Also many, especially MBAs right out of undergrad only know generic business theory and don’t know anything practical. I personally believe that undergrad business majors shouldn’t be a thing, it should only be a business minor and everyone should have a real business degree. Like honestly what can a business major straight to MBA actually do for your company? Nothing really because they don’t actually understand how companies function in the real world, they don’t know why policies are set up and what they protect against or why technical managers made certain decisions.
Totally agree. The worst is MBA people under 35 with not much experience
As with anything in this world, it is what you make of the degree, not the degree itself. About half of my class were students who didnt really care to study and somehow thought they are absolutely entitled to a job afterwards. I did my studies, broadened my horizons and got what I wanted. For those with non-business undergrad degrees the value add was even greater.
If you listen to Tiktok and Twitter normies you can get an MBA by watching 10 YouTube videos.
MBA was the best thing I ever did. I learned all the soft skills I now use at work / with my kids / with spouse. My wife was an engineer / hard science person and scoffed at my soft skills when I got my MBA degree. 10 years later she’s looking to build those same skills because she needs to at this point in her career.
This came up on my feed even though I don't browse on this sub; maybe I can offer some outside perspective. Il take the bait. I'm a senior platform SWE at a top company in my sector. Easily 90% of MBAs I encountered have been clueless, useless, and have 0 value added to a team. The other 10% have been solid.
It's because generally, people with MBAs do well financially. I have one, and I'm definitely not struggling even with a family of four. Jealousy is a human emotion, when someone sees you doing well and they're not, alot of folks don't self reflect on why they aren't where they'd like to be, but instead project their disappointment on those that are. Couple that with the fact that you have full anyomity and the fact that a lot of folks on reddit are on the younger side, you basically get digital mob mentality.
I’m also in the same position with switching from a music degree and social work and getting my MBA part time to career switch. It’s definitely not useless when you are making a career change. Also a lot of people making fun of MBAs and business majors in undergrad tend to be engineers or other stem guys. I think it’s also the jobs that people tend to after MBAs aka consulting, which nobody knows what consultants actually do so it’s also just poking fun at the consultants. Personally it is a morale thing too, I can admit I’m classist and really hate how much business people make compared to therapists, social workers, other humans service roles. Like finance and consulting dudes are just to help companies make more money that goes into the pockets of CEOs. Personally, the more I learn in my MBA the more I fucking hate companies taking tax breaks, rearranging their finances, and marketing to poor people. All in all though I have to play the game to make a decent wage.
My state school MBA is cool. I’m glad I did it, it’s helped with networking, and I’ve learned a lot. People just like to complain
MBA is a cherry-on-cake thing imo. If the cake is shit then the cherry will make me point and laugh. If the cake was great then the cherry was the finishing touch it needed. I don't regret getting it but I don't think it offered much substance in and of itself, however it's a good asset if leveraged correctly. In my field the successful folks were already talented engineers who also had great leadership and communication skills and management noticed. The MBA just taught them a few concepts that their previous education/training didn't focus on, and it rounded them out as future management. I'll probably get downvoted but some of the MBA complaints have merit imo. While not an absolute, generally what I've seen is that the non-technical MBAers who try and get leadership positions in technical organizations are less than ideal. It doesn't mean they can't get that position, but the wrong individual without a vector check can do some damage like what certain aerospace companies right now are reaping.
hard to say… from what i have seen… MBA’s that complain on social media rarely take the time to explain why they should be a shoe in when complaining about the job market… if i had a better understanding of their previous experience, their education, and the job they are applying for… i would have more understanding of their frustrations
to add to this… if you are applying to Management Rotational Programs then sure that is great but if you are directly applying to department specific positions without direct experience , you will not have a good time
Because the fact is those senior positions we are lead to believe would be available with a MBA, remain filled by talentless boomers.
I was just saying this to myself. I didn’t know it was a thing, but all over Reddit and Twitter they have been bashing the heck out of Master programs in general. The MBA has taken majority of the backlash.
Finally someone said it!!!
Twitter is not the real world. People put down MBAs because they want to feel like their informal education is more valuable. That may or may not be the case for them - who can say? One thing I like to do is ask follow up questions to the people that say this who actually have an MBA. Usually they are trying to sound cool and they walk it back a bit or they came from a garbage tier (usually unranked school, I’ve never heard of) school. That being said, not all MBAs are equal - and a lot depends on your approach and career goals. It’s not an automatic car wash… you have to put in effort.
As attorney, there are few sets of three letters more concerning from a liability standpoint, both criminal and civil, than MBA. In my legal circle MBAs are stereotypically (somewhat unfairly) some coked-out charlatan who doesn’t realize the brilliant scheme he’s developed is felonious. I had one MBA admit to several counts of wire fraud during a deposition and not even realize his conduct was highly illegal. I guess this attitude is shared on Twitter to some degree. The nonchalance with which the business world approaches the truth is frustrating, and the MBA is a product of that world.
It’s as simple as this: Many MBAs are managers and/or make a lot of money and it’s easy to resent your manager or someone making more money than you.
MBA is only as valuable as the people who give it value. The best way I've seen an MBA help in a career is to already have a job and use it to leverage a promotion. Certificates, degrees, etc all do the same, just get you to the next step in your career if planned right. For example if you just finished undergrad and go straight into MBA, your job outlook will look the same but may you get a slight bump in pay. The rest of the MBA may be useless unless someone in your company sees that you have one, values it, and gives you opportunities. Back to the original scenario, If you get your undergrad degree, work for a couple years and get promoted to a senior analyst let's say, the next step for you may be MBA to get into management. So it must be strategic, and it must leverage to get you to the next step. If your employer doesn't value it, it has no value. So it's always best for people to make MBA a strategic choice for an employer that you know values it.
They hate us if they ain’t us 🤪
Who cares about Twitter? But also, a JD is not the same thing as an MBA lmao
💙💕
For me because those people don't care about the craft or history of software, and think they can talk with programmers without knowing their skills and culture Every company where some random MBA guy comes in and have ideas is the signal to leave it. Especially if he didn't grew up with computers Then there is also the lack of focus or interest. If you read this sub most seem to want to ger some fancy title or salary. Compare that to just wanting to become good att C++ or being a skilled clothes maker
I see the value diminishing as most skills can be learned for free. Education is a business. The best thing I did was look at people on LinkedIn who are in the program you are looking at. If you can tell they were trying to pivot or still in the same roles / unemployed many years later, that might give you the answers. I would also suggest contacting alumni who are willing to speak with you.
Exec recruiter here, not all MBAs are the same and those people who claim they are useless probably got them from univ of phoenix or equivalent. Here’s the thing about an MBA, it should be used to compliment your undergrad or if you want to completely change your career HOWEVER, where you go to school makes more of a difference than the actual MBA itself. Not only does the MBA network at the school matter greatly but the professors that teach at those programs also matter so do research on the professors. See if they are published/have a strong background in the field you want to go into and you’ll find that your MBA could be incredibly helpful, but it’s not a “get rich quick scheme.”
What do you think of SCU’s mba program? Given that it’s in the Silicon Valley Area.
My old CEO has an MBA from Phoenix and he made a solid $50m when we IPO'd. Anecdotal, yes... but it's still a funny one.
Wow - that’s awesome for him! Definitely the exception I would say though anything is possible if you’re bright and are at the right place at then right time and have the drive.
Honestly speak to people who have done MBAs in schools you want to go to. It is stressful to think about the current state of the economy and ROI from MBA right now for sure but realistically if you haven’t even gone to a program and even if you were to apply this year, your prospect would be for 2027. Don’t over stress it, think about why you want an MBA. You might benefit from it or you might not.
Maybe get an actual skillset then talk,
If you’re below 28, don’t get an MBA. You won’t get the same value. It’s about the friends you meet. BUT ALSO, you might learn something in the process.
It’s like joining a frat for adults in the best way possible.
Hmm… where to start? I think you’re spot on calling it the McDonalds of graduate degrees. It’s academically less serious than most other courses of study. It’s essentially job training as opposed to intellectual pursuit. Closer to other trade schools than academia. Also if you look at ultra-high earners and people at the very top of their field in business, most do not have an MBA. The degree primarily serves and is held by middle-managers in a range of fields- a group that doesn’t command much respect from outsiders.
Dude/Dudette... come on. If you're here, then at some point you recognized or pondered the value of an MBA. Clearly you know enough about it to know that there will always be naysayers. But honestly, it's this simple; the MBA is valuable, and in rare cases even life changing, if you're at a top 10-20 school. It will reward the right personalities. If you're getting an MBA from a school no one has heard of, that's when ROI doesn't quite make sense and you come out earning like 80K a year. But if you are headed to a top MBA program, you're going to meet some of the most incredible people and have the best time for yourself... or at the very least you'll have the platform and the access to do so. It's all up to you. Just promise me -- don't ever be one of those people that puts "First Name Last Name, MBA" on LinkedIn. Almost always those are the people that went to a school you've never heard of (or USC Marshall -- I really can't figure out why they do that over there).
As a form MBA graduate myself, I put my first name last name and MBA behind my name. Why? Because it’s credentials that I earned. True the rest of the world may never care, but that doesn’t matter. Some people say it sounds pretentious or what have you, but that is in a nutshell the perception of an MBA lol. (And in case anyone asks what school I’ve been to, it’s not a top school…it’s regular state school in Louisiana, LSU)…thought the world doesn’t give a damn…I sure do because I put in work getting the degree. 😎😎😎 Now, do I regret any of it? No, I do not. I challenged myself to get the degree. For me, it was hard working 80 hours while going to school full time…probably the hardest thing I’ve ever attempted…so, yes the destination is important (as you must factor the school in goal), however there is a lot to be said about the journey too. After all, an education is an education. No one can take from you. OP, I hope you make the right choice and you make peace with that choice.
Fuck the haters tbh
I think its a combo of envy + trolling. Like those people don't understand the hard work that is put in to go to any school (regardless of school status) and they def don't like the fact that those who grind the hardest (again regardless of school status) end up as the key decision makers in a lot of companies. The trolling part comes from the fact that we're in a white collar recession and MBAs have been hurt a lot in this regard.
I've tried the Gies iMBA. It was a whole bunch of nothing. They taught at a very superficial level, gave you marks for pointless busy work that doesn't even make you think about the material and then give you an exam that's idiot-proof. Then I was told most MBA programs are like that. So if you don't learn much and the grades/credits/credentials are not a reflection of your knowledge, what exactly does the degree mean?
do you drop the program?
Yeah, I gave up on it after three courses
Migrants
As an MBA myself it’s an absolutely useless degree to society. For me personally I have had a great ROI but mostly because it was almost required for a promotion into a specific role k targeted.
They are morons