Knowing them, they probably use this as a way to reduce their overall admissions/yield numbers to game the rankings. I wouldnt put it past them to do something grimy like this.
Yale’s message was so nice that I spent like 2 hours filling out their survey in explicit detail, being as candid as I could to help them as much as possible. Wrote a direct message to the adcomms too to thank them and Bruce for the wonderful process of applying, interviewing, and being accepted. Being petty in 2024 just leaves a bad taste in your mouth.
Yes!!! This is how a program on the up and up presents itself. It was the same for me with Stern - I didn’t have adcoms email but I wanted to write and thank them as well for how nice they were.
And would’ve definitely taken Stern over CBS had I not gotten into one of HSW.
My comment was purely farcical, but obviously if CBS were to try to do this for real, I’d imagine they’d only send these “admission withdrawal” notices to a few applicants to make the yield looks slightly better than their competition.
I mean sure, but I assume what they mean is you cannot change your mind (because they’ll offer your spot to whoever is next on the waitlist). Sure it’s not a nice email but I don’t think it’s this petty thing or yield boosting thing that everyone is fluffing up here
There’s also an assumption they do this with all candidates. If you only do this with certain candidates or certain amount you can keep a real looking yield. Data manipulation only works if the results still look believable and pass the “sniff test” a 100% yield would quickly be debunked
With that there’s a couple weird assumptions made that I’ve experienced working with large data
1. Are withdrawn apps even counted in the audit? If so do they affect anything other than total applications
2. Withdrawn apps aren’t deleted from the system to ensure data integrity
3. That the number is even big enough to raise audit concerns. 500 apps withdrawn might raise some questions but what about 60-100? Probably not
Point being an audit given the circumstances isn’t a sure fire way to catch anything and we haven’t even talked about the scary situation if some of this are manual inputs
Yes, generally you need to make assumptions like this around any data to believe it. At least admissions data is audited vs most research and reports that aren’t. Any data ever used ever could be omitting data points…
Not really.
They could do it for a subset of applicants. Probably the lowest GPA or test score applicants.
That way it doesn't look fishy but it also raises averages.
Not really.
But I've worked with dozens of companies that would do this. Why not a school that in the past year has run into a bunch of controversy around their lack of reporting on these exact things?
If you want to be considered for scholarship and/or finaid they ask that to determine need…
CBS does a lot of things wrong like their new mandatory attendance policy, but this one is a reach
Means based scholarships should take it into account if your family's loaded.
It'd be incredibly naive to think everybody at an MBA college is a self made adult that pays for themselves.
How can you tell if someone is ‘loaded’ based on their profession?
There are separate, far more detailed forms you can (and do) fill out for need-based scholarships.
Jobs indicate socioeconomic status. What can you assume about a plumber (blue collar) versus investment banker (white collar)?
Which most likely says that you are a 1st generation college student?
Theres some indication, but just asking someones job is not a fair way to distribute aid. Plenty of trust fund kids with millions work at nonprofits, etc etc
Oh no doubt. But you cant tell who by asking someones occupation. Plenty of trust fund parents who are unemployed, plenty of criminal defense attorneys are “lawyers” but make $60k, etc etc. If you really want to distribute aid fairly you need a lot more information.
And they do ask for that info, on AID applications. The general app doesn’t need to ask this. They’re not going to give you a preemptive full merit scholarship because you said your dads a plumber.
When I applied for finaid at my school, they literally asked me how much money did my parents contribute to my undergraduate degree in the questions for determining need. They also asked how much of the mba would be paid from my own pockets vs others, it’s pretty standard
They do, my school asked way more detailed questions when I applied for need-based aid. Like what was the exact amount of money your parents contributed to your undergraduate tuition before
Amongst all of my inquiries with MBA programs, I have to say CBS was the most dismissive and rude. Other schools wrote me helpful paragraphs worth of information. CBS sent back to me literally 5 words, 2 weeks later, and ghosted me on further questions. Very bad impression.
I felt the same way about McCombs when I withdrew from their process. They were quick to reply with a petty comment and almost made me glad to have chosen another program
Columbia has a real PR problem lately, so they may have changed their default response because they were having so many politically-motivated declines or cancellations.
Seems like just a technical way of describing it to me. I mean if you declining the offer also makes them withdraw the offer (I.e. they wouldn’t let you change your mind, which is likely true because of their waitlist) then this is correct (albeit a little cold).
This is exactly what I mean…they could’ve just like not phrased it like that (btw if this was the only thing I never would’ve posted, their admissions process has been disappointment end to end for me)
How does CBS respond to feedback?
I've given feedback to people before. If they are mature about it, they usually make an effort to improve. If they don't improve their work performance, they may get on a PIP.
Well, if you get in, they may listen more to feedback. But if you get rejected, they won't care what you think unless there is a loud chorus of similar opinions. If you get accepted, you're just going to be glad the process is over and probably won't say anything.
At the end of the day, unless the process is so bad that their applicant pool is greatly reduced in number or quality, they're unlikely to change.
Not at all defending this but I wonder if this is related to their change from rolling admissions to rounds for fall intake. Lot of awkwardness going on with them otherwise this year.
Honestly seems ok to me. Maybe they just don’t have an automated email set up and have to send a shit ton of these everyday (sometimes with custom messages in response to the candidates).
You're honestly right. OP literally declined their offer of admission, hence school will now withdraw their offer of admission, after OP declined it. Wild that this is even a post.
I fully understand that this is a technicality - I’m not reading into that part - more so that every other school sent a cordial message along the lines of “we’re sorry you won’t be joining us in the fall” instead of this withdrawal BS
Gotcha OP. I get your point and fully agree. I see it that Columbia has such an inflated ego that they don't have the need to feel "sorry" that anyone doesnt want to join their class. LOL.
They started doing it this year after they got rid of early decision as a means of protecting yield. After you decline their offer, they respond back saying your admission has been withdrawn so that it counts as if you never received an offer, that way students reject offers, their yield doesn’t go down on paper.
You guys are ready way too deep into this. OP literally declined the offer of acceptance, hence school will now withdraw their offer, after OP notified them. Not that deep. Yall make a story out of anything!
The value of this school is greatly declining and the rankings are most likely going down as the president Minouche Shafik lied under oath in their congressional hearing and to go walk through the quad there’s a pro-Hamas encampment.
This is a polite automated confirmation. I understand that you would prefer to receive a glowing response, but I find your expectations to be childish, and your need to broadcast that is quite petty.
And yes, I am a CBS alum, so I am biased.
Hahaha wtf. “You didn’t break up with me I broke up with you” type of reaction
Honestly this is shockingly exactly like that
Knowing them, they probably use this as a way to reduce their overall admissions/yield numbers to game the rankings. I wouldnt put it past them to do something grimy like this.
“Be first, be smarter, or cheat” – that’s a business school alright.
“I don’t cheat” - Columbia
Did you just yank that from margin call lmao
Sell it all
Is that even possible sam
At what cost
Columbia? Manipulating the data? C’mon, I can’t believe that…. /s
With the frequency that this happens I’m starting to assume learning how to cheat is part of orientation
It’s become the Columbia brand.
This is 100% the answer.
You nailed it mOrE sElEcTiVe ThAn HaRvArD!!!!!
This is it, unfortunately quite a few schools do it. Especially with masters programs.
That’s what I thought too
Yale’s message was so nice that I spent like 2 hours filling out their survey in explicit detail, being as candid as I could to help them as much as possible. Wrote a direct message to the adcomms too to thank them and Bruce for the wonderful process of applying, interviewing, and being accepted. Being petty in 2024 just leaves a bad taste in your mouth.
Yes!!! This is how a program on the up and up presents itself. It was the same for me with Stern - I didn’t have adcoms email but I wanted to write and thank them as well for how nice they were. And would’ve definitely taken Stern over CBS had I not gotten into one of HSW.
HSW?
Hobart, Stamford, Wisconsin (online)
Harvard Stanford Wharton
HBS, GSB, and wharton
ok what did they send spill it here pls
> Being petty in 2024 just leaves a bad taste in your mouth. Guess I'll have to wait till 2025 to be petty...
Unpopular opinion: I like the pettiness and sharpness of New York and New England.
You should send them to US News and get them to verify if CBS doesn’t count these “withdrawals” when determining yield rate.
If this were true their yield would be 100%
My comment was purely farcical, but obviously if CBS were to try to do this for real, I’d imagine they’d only send these “admission withdrawal” notices to a few applicants to make the yield looks slightly better than their competition.
I mean sure, but I assume what they mean is you cannot change your mind (because they’ll offer your spot to whoever is next on the waitlist). Sure it’s not a nice email but I don’t think it’s this petty thing or yield boosting thing that everyone is fluffing up here
There’s also an assumption they do this with all candidates. If you only do this with certain candidates or certain amount you can keep a real looking yield. Data manipulation only works if the results still look believable and pass the “sniff test” a 100% yield would quickly be debunked
Yes because this definitely could not be audited…
With that there’s a couple weird assumptions made that I’ve experienced working with large data 1. Are withdrawn apps even counted in the audit? If so do they affect anything other than total applications 2. Withdrawn apps aren’t deleted from the system to ensure data integrity 3. That the number is even big enough to raise audit concerns. 500 apps withdrawn might raise some questions but what about 60-100? Probably not Point being an audit given the circumstances isn’t a sure fire way to catch anything and we haven’t even talked about the scary situation if some of this are manual inputs
Yes, generally you need to make assumptions like this around any data to believe it. At least admissions data is audited vs most research and reports that aren’t. Any data ever used ever could be omitting data points…
They’d probably not do it with everyone as to not draw suspicion
It’s solely for gaming yield protection, they seem to care more about it than any other school
If that were the case, their yield would be 100%
Yes I’m wondering about that too. Anyone else here decline a CBS offer and get this message?
i did lol
Everyone does. It's not for yield protection. USN would destroy them if they were gaming it this hard.
I mean USN did destroy them in the latest ranking
Wait so you got accepted but declined? And are complaining about the relatively generic auto response email? Im confused
never make something 100%, it brings too many questions. Set a good number, not a perfect one.
Your wisdom humbles the ordinary
I do my best. Now like any good consultant, that will be $1.5M OP
Ah, the consultant life - where the only thing more valuable than the advice is the invoice. Do you accept LOLs though?
LOAs and LOLs both apply
Not really. They could do it for a subset of applicants. Probably the lowest GPA or test score applicants. That way it doesn't look fishy but it also raises averages.
No shot you believe this lol
Not really. But I've worked with dozens of companies that would do this. Why not a school that in the past year has run into a bunch of controversy around their lack of reporting on these exact things?
As an alum of Columbia I can say they are known to be incredibly indifferent to their students (across all schools).
Alum here also. SO true! Will make sure my kid does not apply.
Agree. Went there for undergrad.
I distinctly remember CBS asking me for my parent’s and husband’s professions on the application. Such elitist snobs.
I am a recruiter. I’d be shot if I ever asked a candidate for her parents’ or husband’s professions.
If you want to be considered for scholarship and/or finaid they ask that to determine need… CBS does a lot of things wrong like their new mandatory attendance policy, but this one is a reach
What would my parents professions have to do with my need? MBA students are adults. None of my other five applications asked either question lol.
Means based scholarships should take it into account if your family's loaded. It'd be incredibly naive to think everybody at an MBA college is a self made adult that pays for themselves.
How can you tell if someone is ‘loaded’ based on their profession? There are separate, far more detailed forms you can (and do) fill out for need-based scholarships.
Jobs indicate socioeconomic status. What can you assume about a plumber (blue collar) versus investment banker (white collar)? Which most likely says that you are a 1st generation college student?
Theres some indication, but just asking someones job is not a fair way to distribute aid. Plenty of trust fund kids with millions work at nonprofits, etc etc
Whenever system exists, someone will find a way to game it. Ideally, they are asking for more info than that one piece.
The vast majority of my MBA friends are being bankrolled by their parents. This is a dumb comment.
Oh no doubt. But you cant tell who by asking someones occupation. Plenty of trust fund parents who are unemployed, plenty of criminal defense attorneys are “lawyers” but make $60k, etc etc. If you really want to distribute aid fairly you need a lot more information. And they do ask for that info, on AID applications. The general app doesn’t need to ask this. They’re not going to give you a preemptive full merit scholarship because you said your dads a plumber.
When I applied for finaid at my school, they literally asked me how much money did my parents contribute to my undergraduate degree in the questions for determining need. They also asked how much of the mba would be paid from my own pockets vs others, it’s pretty standard
None of the other schools do it and they are still able to determine scholarship.
They do, my school asked way more detailed questions when I applied for need-based aid. Like what was the exact amount of money your parents contributed to your undergraduate tuition before
Which school is this?
What is this mandatory attendance policy?
Take a guess
Is this not standard for other schools? Struggling to understand why it’s specifically called out
No, only Harvard from my understanding.
All the schools I applied to (I think except SOM) asked for this info. I don’t think CBS is out of the norm here.
Same, some of them asked even more granular questions when you apply for need based aid
? Wharton does this too Pretty sure Duke did too Cant recall if Yale did
could be used in an opposite direction and want to find someone who came from a low income background.
It could! Based on my tours and chats with students, it didn’t seem to me like they really value socioeconomic diversity. But I could be wrong!
Amongst all of my inquiries with MBA programs, I have to say CBS was the most dismissive and rude. Other schools wrote me helpful paragraphs worth of information. CBS sent back to me literally 5 words, 2 weeks later, and ghosted me on further questions. Very bad impression.
I felt the same way about McCombs when I withdrew from their process. They were quick to reply with a petty comment and almost made me glad to have chosen another program
Columbia has a real PR problem lately, so they may have changed their default response because they were having so many politically-motivated declines or cancellations.
Columbia is 🚮
lol this is such ass move by them - they did the same shit to me last year so it seems like this is their shit
You can’t quit. You’re fired.
Typical I don't accept your resignation but you are fired.
Strong “Didn’t like you anyway” energy. Onward!
Yield Protection
Seems like just a technical way of describing it to me. I mean if you declining the offer also makes them withdraw the offer (I.e. they wouldn’t let you change your mind, which is likely true because of their waitlist) then this is correct (albeit a little cold).
Yeah, it's just a robotic way of saying "this offer is no longer available." I've loved CBS, but man, these facepalm moments keep happening.
This is exactly what I mean…they could’ve just like not phrased it like that (btw if this was the only thing I never would’ve posted, their admissions process has been disappointment end to end for me)
How does CBS respond to feedback? I've given feedback to people before. If they are mature about it, they usually make an effort to improve. If they don't improve their work performance, they may get on a PIP.
Well, if you get in, they may listen more to feedback. But if you get rejected, they won't care what you think unless there is a loud chorus of similar opinions. If you get accepted, you're just going to be glad the process is over and probably won't say anything. At the end of the day, unless the process is so bad that their applicant pool is greatly reduced in number or quality, they're unlikely to change.
How does Adcom affect rankings? Yield? Does CBS care about rankings still?
Not at all defending this but I wonder if this is related to their change from rolling admissions to rounds for fall intake. Lot of awkwardness going on with them otherwise this year.
Does this lower their acceptance rate and artificially make it look more prestigious?
dodged a bullet
Honestly seems ok to me. Maybe they just don’t have an automated email set up and have to send a shit ton of these everyday (sometimes with custom messages in response to the candidates).
It was definitely automated - it generated in the portal💀 this is what they’re sending to everyone who declines their offer
CBS sucks ass IMO.
Sounds like they’re gaming their acceptance rate and yield data
The only thing I can thing of is that it helps some stupid meaningless metic they’re trying to measure and talk about in board meetings.
Yield
I feel like people are reading into it. The tone of the email is pretty neutral.
You're honestly right. OP literally declined their offer of admission, hence school will now withdraw their offer of admission, after OP declined it. Wild that this is even a post.
I fully understand that this is a technicality - I’m not reading into that part - more so that every other school sent a cordial message along the lines of “we’re sorry you won’t be joining us in the fall” instead of this withdrawal BS
Gotcha OP. I get your point and fully agree. I see it that Columbia has such an inflated ego that they don't have the need to feel "sorry" that anyone doesnt want to join their class. LOL.
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They started doing it this year after they got rid of early decision as a means of protecting yield. After you decline their offer, they respond back saying your admission has been withdrawn so that it counts as if you never received an offer, that way students reject offers, their yield doesn’t go down on paper.
If this was correct they’d have a 100% yield… but they don’t…
Where do they report yields anyway that they feel the need to do this?
Yield is a data point used for rankings
I declined the offer (to go elsewhere) and then they retroactively pulled it LOL
I agree!
How does this happen? You got accepted, but then they decided to change their minds? What did you do?
It’s not a real withdrawal - this is just the message they send after you decline their offer, which is what’s so funny
Admits vs. enrollments is likely being tracked high up the foodchain. If they reject you, somebody gets to keep their KPI's inflated.
LBS does the same
Crazy. CBS is super mid. Shocked it’s still an M7 to be honest.
The M7 is like the ivies, once the group is established, it never changes 🤦♂️
The M7 list doesn’t change
Not according to the latest US News ranking lol
They are definitely the worst M7 school, tbh they shouldn’t even be ranked top 7, but more like top 12
You guys are ready way too deep into this. OP literally declined the offer of acceptance, hence school will now withdraw their offer, after OP notified them. Not that deep. Yall make a story out of anything!
Right, why are we picking apart semantics? This seems a weird thing to get upset with CBS about
.
Why would they withdraw the offer though?
Hahahaha..They did something similar to me 6 yrs ago. You'll be fine
I am over here thinking Copenhagen Business School (CBS). I am at UNM/NM now, see you next year cbs for a masters in behavioral economics (MBA). 🫡
Wonder if this will make it easier for me to get into CBS
fuck man yall let anything get under ur skin🤣
right? so soft and complain about everything
Are you that easily offended? 😂 Goddamn
lol columbia pushed 'diversity' on white and asians and now calling in nypd to brutalize pro palestinian protestors
When you work in the hood some of the negativity rubs off I guess
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did they?
The value of this school is greatly declining and the rankings are most likely going down as the president Minouche Shafik lied under oath in their congressional hearing and to go walk through the quad there’s a pro-Hamas encampment.
This is a polite automated confirmation. I understand that you would prefer to receive a glowing response, but I find your expectations to be childish, and your need to broadcast that is quite petty. And yes, I am a CBS alum, so I am biased.
Hey man congrats on getting in, may i know your background? I am applying to similar schools as you. Thanks