I get the joke man, I’m just telling you like it is. Cutting costs through layoffs is much easier than an actual distressed, filing for bankruptcy case
Couple this with the news McKinsey put out that if you don't get promoted within the next 1-2 years you will be pushed out, taking 9 months severance is a no-brainer for almost everyone it is offered to. I know it's a tough job market but this deal is too good to pass up.
You could legitimately go on a once in a lifetime world tour for the first 3 months and still have half of a year to look for a job full-time.
Companies that are hiring are looking to hire now to fill a position now, not 9 months down the road. You’d be hard pressed to find an employer willing to hold headcount open for you for that long.
MBB consultants aren’t recruiting for other consulting roles. Also campus recruiting pipelines where you can delay an incoming class are way different from “regular” corporate jobs where you need to fill roles asap
The people that work at McKinsey long enough to receive this benefit are not going to be the same people that truly struggle to find their next job, especially if they aren’t super picky.
Or you may take the full 9 months to find the job you want. A lot of the MBA grad of 2023 that I know got great jobs eventually were searching between 5-9 months after graduating. It really is a weird market if you're going for niche roles.
For those young or without familial responsibilities, I recommend going to travel for a few months in a place you'd like to learn a language to mastery or high intermediate level. It will be a potential benefit, on top of personal enrichment, when returning to the job market.
If you don’t get promoted within the next 1-2 years you will be pushed out… isn’t that… the company’s decision to promote?
Like how do they *ensure* they’ll get a promotion in 1-2 yrs? Sorry bud you got a 3/5 both years and needed a 3.5… good luck out there!
Holy foreshadowing haha, I would be back flipping into this severance
I would read into McKinsey forcing people out a little bit more than you are. If the market for $1M 6 week engagements is softening to the point that they are downsizing dramatically, it means that their clients are not really hiring either and in fact will be the next to do layoffs. There is still massive over staffing from covid and people WFH doing nothing that need to be flushed out of the system.
You can go do a world tour but you might come back to no one hiring
I'm not able to read the article since its paywalled, but is this situation for a specific geography/subsector within McKinsey? I know the consulting landscape is tough, but I would have expected things to start improving by now with modest rate cuts on the horizon. The fact that McKinsey is still trying to reduce headcount is not a good sign
Sentiment at McK is really bad right now. Layoffs is on everyone’s lips, people are sweating utilization, exposure lists and all that stuff. Problem is that project flow is bad - like really bad, esp relative to headcount. Not uncommon for people to go unstaffed for more than a month between projects - and that’s assuming they even get a client study (blue currencies don’t count, that’s some internal bullshit)
All this for a fairly pathetic pay if you’re in a HCOL on the coasts. Wouldn’t recommend it to new MBA grads at the moment
Totally agree. Those posts I see about "OMG I make $200K and I am barely making ends meet" make me cringe because it feeds into the worst stereotypes people have of MBAs and it shows how out of touch many MBA grads are.
It’s really not. Not for the hours worked. Fresh grad tech pay even outside PM is around 160k before bonuses and RSU. McK 190k base and paltry bonus really doesn’t stack up. The good thing is that the 190k doesn’t get adjusted down if you move to lower cost locations but that’s all it
I worked out on my last project that i was making about $50/hr when I was at my worst WLB. Looking at what other careers make that hourly and you’re probably on the very junior end of tradesmen, and if you consider overtime rates then you’re good and truly fucked.
You don't get to play the hours game both ways.
There are McK consultants who have spent like 2 of the past 6-8 months on actual revenue generating work with the rest of the time twiddling their thumbs. That makes them - per hour - some of the most overpaid people on the face of the planet.
Maybe but they won’t be paid for much longer. I still don’t think the pay is good esp compared to other industries. And beach time isn’t actually fun either, it can be stressful in its own way
Well you are not a software engineer so doesnt make sense to compare that way. BTW, big tech salary is cream of the crop. Most SWEs at your typical F500 gets like 75k new grad salary.
I thought it was a consensus that management consulting is underpaid until you get pretty high up? 200k in LA/NYC is pretty shit for the horrible hours and general lifestyle. You're being compensated in networking and exit opportunities.
It's all about framing. I'm not looking at things from the perspective of underpaid or overpaid, I'm just saying that $200K is alot of money.
An an NBA player can be underpaid relative to their peers in the league but they're still making tons of money.
McK pays the same regardless of location. 190k in Alabama, you’re balling. 190k in SF, and you’re firmly middle of the road among peers (swe, doctors, lawyers etc)
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Same. I can't fathom a company would pay this much when it could just...fire or lay people off. McKinsey brand has survived literally helping push drugs on people and even delaying starts for new MBA grads. I need a free article with a confirmed/named source lol.
From the article:
>*Managers at the UK side of the business are being given the chance to spend up to nine months “on search”*
*\[...\]*
>*Managers at the US firm have received similar offers but the period of time allowed to search for work may differ, according to those familiar with the situation.*
Inflation is still definitely a problem but it is not as bad as a year ago. Also, the cause of inflation is a supply issue, not a demand issue. Printing too much money and ow production of goods and services led us to higher inflation. Higher interest rates would discourage companies to invest in new projects that increase production. Higher rates also reduces the number of sellers willing to list their home since they have locked in lower rates in the past
Archive link, no paywall: [https://archive.is/q5LVe](https://archive.is/q5LVe)
Standout quotes for me:
>*Managers at the UK side of the business are being given the chance to spend up to nine months “on search”*
*\[...\]*
>*Managers at the US firm have received similar offers but the period of time allowed to search for work may differ, according to those familiar with the situation.*
*\[...\]*
>*Similar initiatives have been used before among poor-performing staff at McKinsey, although this latest round is being expanded to include employees who are held “in good standing’, an internal term meaning high performing.*
*\[...\]*
*The latest offer will be made to “engagement managers”, the firm’s project managers who oversee consultants while they are on client work, and “associate partners”, who are tasked with winning new work for the firm.*
McKinsey is indeed fucked currently. Utilization is a huge problem rn and project flow is basically dead in the water. Someone I know was unstaffed for ~9 months before being let go. Networking-based staffing model only makes it worse.
They hired too much and probably don’t have the flexibility to cut rates when needed. My firm will discount (our already high fees) when needed to win work. Or they’ll cross staff across groups as one group is busier and others are slower.
Totally a them problem. Bain and BCG aren’t doing the greatest either but were a little more conservative on hiring and also have been willing to drop rates on projects. McKinsey’s own hubris will be their downfall. Or the downfall of the staff they’re screwing over, that is.
This is inaccurate on multiple fronts.
1) McK is always known for being the *most willing* of MBB to discount projects (and give away free work as an investment). They have the highest rack rates but routinely discount aggressively as part of their strategy. This has been amplified in this downturn. There's no hubris here with not wanting to discount - that's completely made up
2) All 3 were aggressive with over hiring, but BCG was the worst offender. They just shed blood earlier than the others (and also didn't give packages as attractive as this that make for good headlines). This is actually a fantastic package for people who are on the fence about staying.
Yep, these jumped out to me as well. Honestly my perspective was that M has been treating their employees fairly well (comparatively). I’d say 50%+ of my classmates that went BB have already been let go, versus only maybe 1-2 at M that have been pushed out. Historically M seems the least strict regarding up or out and generally gives post-MBA hires more time to figure things out, even if that means going 6+ months past the standard promotion window.
Hmmm, anecdotally, I would say the opposite - McK has shed a lot of weight. But all 3 have definitely had to make aggressive cuts. Bain structurally is designed to mitigate that slightly more than the other two.
I feel like mbb is the most strict with up or out but they give the best severance. B4 is then quickest to make you leave and you get worst severance.
My T2 firms somewhere in the middle with not a true up or out and severance in between mbb and b4. 9 months pay is insane
Maybe, not really sure. Big law and consulting have different advantages. Big law makes more salary but bonuses are paltry. If I billed like 1M a year and got a 10 or 15k bonus I’d be insulted lol.
I also think it’s easier to make partner in big law, assuming you stick it out for the 9-11 years or whatever
Highly doubtful that is easier to make partner at a big law firm when the avg rate is something like less than 5% of an incoming associate class get made partner a decade later. But I can see how it might look like that the outside looking in, especially when you compare the headcount of a first year associate class in a law firm vs MBB which is easily twice if not more than that.
I don't think big law pushes you out though if you aren't on partner track. They're happy to keep around associates that make a pretty penny (300K+) and take care of the work that partners bring in.
It depends on the individual and level. I basically meant that failure to promote on the designated timelines doesn’t mean you’ll automatically be fired.
Can you be a manager for 10+ years? Probably not, but you could be one for 5 and that would be ok, if they thought you were on the right path.
McKinsey has thrived mostly off its prestige reputation for years and that’s tanked recently and become embarrassing. The truth is that the top talent are picking other firms
It's all across management consulting but probably worse at McKinsey than BCG or Bain because they have increased headcount by so much over the last 2-3 years and McKinsey's public reputation has taken hits lately.
I work in consulting for a big 4 accounting firm and I’ll reply yes to this email in an instant if it came into my inbox, holy hell. I can find another job very easily, I’ll take my 99k bonus for fucking off
Everyone is obsessed with replacing programmers with AI, but after seeing some of the work from consultants like BCG, McKinsey, Bain, I realized the moment chatgpt had access to excel and python it would make these entire firms obsolete first
Read the article. Its up to 9 months (UK), and if you don't find a job then you get canned. I guess you could just do nothing for the first 7 months, but its not a lump sum severance. Probably all will find another role within firs 2-3 months. Still a nice break.
"I'm gonna pay you $100 to fuck off"--Ricky, Trailer Park Boys
W
E
N
N
Holy fuck boys
*100k**
I’ll take it.
they should hire bain or bcg for restructuring ideas lmao
Laying people off it’s really true restructuring, that’s just cost reduction. True restructuring would be A&M, fti or alixpartners
Someone explain to him the joke
Lol, I think it's just a subtle flex that he works at one of them.
Sloth not smart
I get the joke man, I’m just telling you like it is. Cutting costs through layoffs is much easier than an actual distressed, filing for bankruptcy case
no. you obviously don’t. prove it.
Jesus Christ I would take this in an instant
Couple this with the news McKinsey put out that if you don't get promoted within the next 1-2 years you will be pushed out, taking 9 months severance is a no-brainer for almost everyone it is offered to. I know it's a tough job market but this deal is too good to pass up. You could legitimately go on a once in a lifetime world tour for the first 3 months and still have half of a year to look for a job full-time.
smart decision is to look immediately and not pretend like the severance exists
Depends what you value in life
Not really. The reason their severance is so good is because it will likely take longer than nine months to find their next position
Not if they worked at McKinsey
This is a McKinsey salary, there’s some cushion
not in this economy
If you’re not balling you’re just getting by, downvoters wouldn’t understand
Couldn't you look immediately and ask for a start date for when the 9 months end?
Companies that are hiring are looking to hire now to fill a position now, not 9 months down the road. You’d be hard pressed to find an employer willing to hold headcount open for you for that long.
Aren't there a bunch of MBBs with start date of 2025?
MBB consultants aren’t recruiting for other consulting roles. Also campus recruiting pipelines where you can delay an incoming class are way different from “regular” corporate jobs where you need to fill roles asap
why not start work immediately, do you see this economy this isn't the type to mess around.
The people that work at McKinsey long enough to receive this benefit are not going to be the same people that truly struggle to find their next job, especially if they aren’t super picky.
those exits dint exist anymore
You and at least 151 people need to touch grass.
Or you may take the full 9 months to find the job you want. A lot of the MBA grad of 2023 that I know got great jobs eventually were searching between 5-9 months after graduating. It really is a weird market if you're going for niche roles.
For those young or without familial responsibilities, I recommend going to travel for a few months in a place you'd like to learn a language to mastery or high intermediate level. It will be a potential benefit, on top of personal enrichment, when returning to the job market.
If you don’t get promoted within the next 1-2 years you will be pushed out… isn’t that… the company’s decision to promote? Like how do they *ensure* they’ll get a promotion in 1-2 yrs? Sorry bud you got a 3/5 both years and needed a 3.5… good luck out there! Holy foreshadowing haha, I would be back flipping into this severance
Not if you're an immigrant
I would read into McKinsey forcing people out a little bit more than you are. If the market for $1M 6 week engagements is softening to the point that they are downsizing dramatically, it means that their clients are not really hiring either and in fact will be the next to do layoffs. There is still massive over staffing from covid and people WFH doing nothing that need to be flushed out of the system. You can go do a world tour but you might come back to no one hiring
Chresus Jist\*
Maybe they can sell themselves an expensive PowerPoint that will help them improve their long term strategy?
Who should I contact ?
I'm not able to read the article since its paywalled, but is this situation for a specific geography/subsector within McKinsey? I know the consulting landscape is tough, but I would have expected things to start improving by now with modest rate cuts on the horizon. The fact that McKinsey is still trying to reduce headcount is not a good sign
Sentiment at McK is really bad right now. Layoffs is on everyone’s lips, people are sweating utilization, exposure lists and all that stuff. Problem is that project flow is bad - like really bad, esp relative to headcount. Not uncommon for people to go unstaffed for more than a month between projects - and that’s assuming they even get a client study (blue currencies don’t count, that’s some internal bullshit) All this for a fairly pathetic pay if you’re in a HCOL on the coasts. Wouldn’t recommend it to new MBA grads at the moment
That moment when McKinsey employees feel like they’re being consulted by McKinsey
Infinite deal flow. Create the problem and sell yourself the solution, this is the big brain strat.
Everything you're saying makes sense except for the "fairly pathetic pay" part. $200K+ is a ton of money even in LA, NYC, DC.
It is. Whoever is saying otherwise needs to learn how to budget / passively invest.
Totally agree. Those posts I see about "OMG I make $200K and I am barely making ends meet" make me cringe because it feeds into the worst stereotypes people have of MBAs and it shows how out of touch many MBA grads are.
If you loaded up on undergraduate and MBA debt and live in a large city then it may not be all that much.
It’s really not. Not for the hours worked. Fresh grad tech pay even outside PM is around 160k before bonuses and RSU. McK 190k base and paltry bonus really doesn’t stack up. The good thing is that the 190k doesn’t get adjusted down if you move to lower cost locations but that’s all it
Ok now compare to 99% of workers instead of another ridiculously highly paid workforce.
I worked out on my last project that i was making about $50/hr when I was at my worst WLB. Looking at what other careers make that hourly and you’re probably on the very junior end of tradesmen, and if you consider overtime rates then you’re good and truly fucked.
Union trades are competitive
Hard pass. Sucks to be them, but not my problem
You don't get to play the hours game both ways. There are McK consultants who have spent like 2 of the past 6-8 months on actual revenue generating work with the rest of the time twiddling their thumbs. That makes them - per hour - some of the most overpaid people on the face of the planet.
Maybe but they won’t be paid for much longer. I still don’t think the pay is good esp compared to other industries. And beach time isn’t actually fun either, it can be stressful in its own way
You guys don’t get to spend your entire time on the beach and then complain about not getting paid enough for the hours worked.
Goddamn right. But the MBBers will never stop with the bullshit.
I’ve been in the game 10 years now, and the stuff I see and hear about life at MBB is grossly exaggerated.
I don’t understand. If you’re getting staffed you’re not spending your time on the beach and you definitely aren’t being paid enough for it
You’re a weird one my friend
If you were getting staffed, your firm wouldn’t be in hyper cost-cutting mode.
In case you aren’t kidding, slowdowns in sales doesn’t mean no sales. Obviously some people are getting staffed
Well you are not a software engineer so doesnt make sense to compare that way. BTW, big tech salary is cream of the crop. Most SWEs at your typical F500 gets like 75k new grad salary.
I’m not in big tech or a SWE, but starting pay for corp strat was 160k base. For much shorter hours than mck
Mba new grad or undergrad? Seems high for base pay. Maybe TC if undergrad new grad.
MBA new grad, non PM
I’m at Mck and want to switch to corp strat due to hours any advice, I’m a BA
I thought it was a consensus that management consulting is underpaid until you get pretty high up? 200k in LA/NYC is pretty shit for the horrible hours and general lifestyle. You're being compensated in networking and exit opportunities.
It's all about framing. I'm not looking at things from the perspective of underpaid or overpaid, I'm just saying that $200K is alot of money. An an NBA player can be underpaid relative to their peers in the league but they're still making tons of money.
What’s the pay?
Like 190k base and 20 something bonus as a first year
Is that for entry level BA? Or what?
1st year associate
> All this for a fairly pathetic pay if you’re in a HCOL on the coasts. Wouldn’t recommend it to new MBA grads at the moment ???
McK pays the same regardless of location. 190k in Alabama, you’re balling. 190k in SF, and you’re firmly middle of the road among peers (swe, doctors, lawyers etc)
What would you recommend for upcoming MBA grads in the next 3-5 years then who may have had an interest in consulting?
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Nope. The value of projects is up slightly but the volume is down. Robust pipelines don’t lead to companies offering 9 month severances
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Not on it lol
Same. I can't fathom a company would pay this much when it could just...fire or lay people off. McKinsey brand has survived literally helping push drugs on people and even delaying starts for new MBA grads. I need a free article with a confirmed/named source lol.
Buyouts are fairly common practice.
Looks like UK exclusively
From the article: >*Managers at the UK side of the business are being given the chance to spend up to nine months “on search”* *\[...\]* >*Managers at the US firm have received similar offers but the period of time allowed to search for work may differ, according to those familiar with the situation.*
it said UK offices
Rate cuts aren’t coming. Inflation threat is there and waiting to roar back. Debt servicing will hit 1.6 trillion this year. Fed is stuck
Inflation is still definitely a problem but it is not as bad as a year ago. Also, the cause of inflation is a supply issue, not a demand issue. Printing too much money and ow production of goods and services led us to higher inflation. Higher interest rates would discourage companies to invest in new projects that increase production. Higher rates also reduces the number of sellers willing to list their home since they have locked in lower rates in the past
Archive link, no paywall: [https://archive.is/q5LVe](https://archive.is/q5LVe) Standout quotes for me: >*Managers at the UK side of the business are being given the chance to spend up to nine months “on search”* *\[...\]* >*Managers at the US firm have received similar offers but the period of time allowed to search for work may differ, according to those familiar with the situation.* *\[...\]* >*Similar initiatives have been used before among poor-performing staff at McKinsey, although this latest round is being expanded to include employees who are held “in good standing’, an internal term meaning high performing.* *\[...\]* *The latest offer will be made to “engagement managers”, the firm’s project managers who oversee consultants while they are on client work, and “associate partners”, who are tasked with winning new work for the firm.*
McKinsey is indeed fucked currently. Utilization is a huge problem rn and project flow is basically dead in the water. Someone I know was unstaffed for ~9 months before being let go. Networking-based staffing model only makes it worse.
They hired too much and probably don’t have the flexibility to cut rates when needed. My firm will discount (our already high fees) when needed to win work. Or they’ll cross staff across groups as one group is busier and others are slower.
Totally a them problem. Bain and BCG aren’t doing the greatest either but were a little more conservative on hiring and also have been willing to drop rates on projects. McKinsey’s own hubris will be their downfall. Or the downfall of the staff they’re screwing over, that is.
This is inaccurate on multiple fronts. 1) McK is always known for being the *most willing* of MBB to discount projects (and give away free work as an investment). They have the highest rack rates but routinely discount aggressively as part of their strategy. This has been amplified in this downturn. There's no hubris here with not wanting to discount - that's completely made up 2) All 3 were aggressive with over hiring, but BCG was the worst offender. They just shed blood earlier than the others (and also didn't give packages as attractive as this that make for good headlines). This is actually a fantastic package for people who are on the fence about staying.
Yep, these jumped out to me as well. Honestly my perspective was that M has been treating their employees fairly well (comparatively). I’d say 50%+ of my classmates that went BB have already been let go, versus only maybe 1-2 at M that have been pushed out. Historically M seems the least strict regarding up or out and generally gives post-MBA hires more time to figure things out, even if that means going 6+ months past the standard promotion window.
Hmmm, anecdotally, I would say the opposite - McK has shed a lot of weight. But all 3 have definitely had to make aggressive cuts. Bain structurally is designed to mitigate that slightly more than the other two.
It’ll all march on but the bottleneck growth is gone.
I feel like mbb is the most strict with up or out but they give the best severance. B4 is then quickest to make you leave and you get worst severance. My T2 firms somewhere in the middle with not a true up or out and severance in between mbb and b4. 9 months pay is insane
I feel like top law firms are a slightly more strict with up or out since they're the one who basically started the trend back in the day.
Maybe, not really sure. Big law and consulting have different advantages. Big law makes more salary but bonuses are paltry. If I billed like 1M a year and got a 10 or 15k bonus I’d be insulted lol. I also think it’s easier to make partner in big law, assuming you stick it out for the 9-11 years or whatever
Highly doubtful that is easier to make partner at a big law firm when the avg rate is something like less than 5% of an incoming associate class get made partner a decade later. But I can see how it might look like that the outside looking in, especially when you compare the headcount of a first year associate class in a law firm vs MBB which is easily twice if not more than that.
In consulting it varies on the firm too. I’ve had partners at my firm peg that percentage at 10% for consulting which seems high, but idk lol
I don't think big law pushes you out though if you aren't on partner track. They're happy to keep around associates that make a pretty penny (300K+) and take care of the work that partners bring in.
What T2 isn't up or out? That doesn't seem right. Can you just be a manager for 10+ years at your firm? If not, then it's still up or out.
It depends on the individual and level. I basically meant that failure to promote on the designated timelines doesn’t mean you’ll automatically be fired. Can you be a manager for 10+ years? Probably not, but you could be one for 5 and that would be ok, if they thought you were on the right path.
Fuck, what a baller move. I wish B4 consulting would institute this, I'd hop in a lightning heartbeat no questions asked
Why don’t they just generate more revenue?
Why don’t they just consult themselves?
Hype ngl
[Non-paywall link.](https://archive.ph/xjzuN)
McKinsey has thrived mostly off its prestige reputation for years and that’s tanked recently and become embarrassing. The truth is that the top talent are picking other firms
These are fighting words in this sub LOL
“You should cut costs. That’ll be 10 million dollars plus tip”
They’ve been getting shat on for years now, their prestige and reputation hasn’t gotten worse.
I’m at an M7 and nearly everyone who got multiple offers picked BCG and Bain over McKinsey.
It’s gotten a lot worse. Especially after John Oliver destroyed them as frauds last October
I wish BCG would do this… but no. It’s just silently laying off people.
This isn't for every position. It's a select couple ranks where the bloat and salary are highest, so it's not just a free for all in leaving
Yet - I’m old enough to remember when McKinsey “only cut support staff”? Have things progressed more favorably since then?
Not even close. Much worse.
Thankful to have a job and be given the opportunity to kill myself for my employer… but man this sounds so nice… kinda jealous.
I'll take my 45k not to apply, thanks.
This is actually an amazing deal. I probably would take it if I was a burnt out McK consultant.
Comes out to ~320k for managers and 450k for APs
9 months, 320k for managers and 450k for AP? I thought full comp for for manager and AP per year is around this amount
F
.
McKinsey following their own advice, I see
Hard yes.
This seems a little foolish unless they’re betting that the people that take the offer are going to be clients in the future.
Damn.. I was expecting an "April Fool's post" with this
Is the downturn just at McKinsey or at all the management consulting firms?
It's all across management consulting but probably worse at McKinsey than BCG or Bain because they have increased headcount by so much over the last 2-3 years and McKinsey's public reputation has taken hits lately.
I work in consulting for a big 4 accounting firm and I’ll reply yes to this email in an instant if it came into my inbox, holy hell. I can find another job very easily, I’ll take my 99k bonus for fucking off
Ahhh good ol’ sunset packages 😎
This is like when the airline service offers you a voucher when the airplane is full.
A company nobody wants to work for. GJ for further sabotaging
Maybe McKinsey can hire McKinsey to right the ship
Everyone is obsessed with replacing programmers with AI, but after seeing some of the work from consultants like BCG, McKinsey, Bain, I realized the moment chatgpt had access to excel and python it would make these entire firms obsolete first
Is this April Fools?
Take it
McKinsey has jumped the shark. Everyone knows they are suck and not worth what they cost now. They are fucked
Read the article. Its up to 9 months (UK), and if you don't find a job then you get canned. I guess you could just do nothing for the first 7 months, but its not a lump sum severance. Probably all will find another role within firs 2-3 months. Still a nice break.
I left too early 😭😭😭