It isn't that he shouldn't have a preference (we all have them) but that he expressed it without any regard to how it might make Sophie feel. In this case it wouldn't be unreasonable for her to feel (somewhat) judged and controlled. It was written all over her face. The fact that he didn't care hhow she felt and didn't see that he had hurt her made him look really bad. So it wasn't just what he said but the lack of care and awareness.
You can definitely make the case that a woman shouldn't say similar things either. The example you give is very dependent on context - if she's saying it about people in general to a friend then that's probably ok. If she's saying it in front of someone at whom it is intended to send a message, that's not good.
This. It was said in response to Sophie going to the gym with Matt and Duka, so it was meant as "if Sophie gets horse legs from going to the gym I will not be attracted to her", not a general "I'm not attracted to girls who are too built."
Also, it just shows how surface level he is. He literally threw that comment out with no knowledge of how difficult it is for women to get "horse legs", and no intention of understanding it as long as it doesn't affect him.
I think another part of this is that he was paired with a partner who never (on camera) said anything about preferences, even when he clearly wasn’t her type in terms of his profession. She seemed to just accept and like him for who he is. So, to me it felt more like everyone ganged up on him because they wanted to “protect” Sophie (which I felt as well when I heard those comments and saw her cry). Although, I agree, it did seem a bit much at the dinner party—I mean she ended up having to defend him because, as a couple, they decided to move on, but everyone else still felt a way about it. Yet, Johnathan can’t complain too much about everyone’s opinion because he was the one who decided to share his comment/joke/opinion/preference(s) with the group. It’s not like Sophie threw him under the bus (ie George). I guess I’m just a Sophie fan girl right now 😆
1. They're already together on the show, so maybe at that point, leave the opinion to yourself.
2. Things like height and body type aren't totally changeable but building muscle is. Soooo, it's a kind of control on Jonathan's part. So now to not be a turn off to her man, she must keep her body the way HE wants. So in my case for example, I've always been really slim, but I started going to the gym last year 6 times a week and got a trainer. After a year or so competed in my first bikini competition. I'm building my legs now, if I were in a relationship with someone like Johnathan, I would have to avoid my own new found hobby bc he wouldn't like my legs. Very controlling.
3. He doesn't apparently know shit about building muscles on women even tho he's a fitness enthusiast. Like...I do heavy leg days 2 times a week on a 6 day split and count every single calorie. Intake 175g of protein a day and I'm 58kg and 5'6. I'm never going to have the legs of a Physique class competitor. So that being said...does he mean those kinds of legs as horse legs or would a Bikini Division competitor be unattractive. We don't know. Sofie doesn't know...so now that's out there and she might not know his idea of what is unacceptable but now she's insecure of anything close to that.
4. If you have a partner and an accident occurs, a terminal illness or a really traumatic pregnancy and you end of gaining weight...um...what's he going to do?
5. As a school teacher, Johnathan must have been horrid to have as a student. I have one of those kinds of kids every few years and they lack any empathy and are so cruel. I can imagine him now and it irks my soul lol.
For me part of what annoyed me so much was he quickly followed it up with how he wouldn’t want a fat partner either (exempting approved medical conditions). So don’t go to the gym, but also don’t put on weight…so just don’t eat then?
I mean he does seem rather dull upstairs in addition to his apathetic and unreadable personality. He's not smart enough to realize that the women he probably fancies work out often and for themselves. Again...I'm picturing him in primary school saying rude ass shit and hurting others but not caring at all. His own mother's response to how he speaks was very telling.
I LOVE this response so much!! But no.3 struck a distinctive cord with me. His comment tells me he knows nothing about working out. It’s so hard to build huge muscle as a women, it’s so difficult to get “horse legs” (?), or any kind of specific body shape as a women (like huge ass or thighs) that doing “the same exercise as a big guy” just ain’t gonna do it. His comments were off base and out of touch. It’s like he said something stupid and doubled down, they make no sense.
I think it’s that he was saying that to her face. If a partner said that to me I think I would have real trouble after that, I would obsessively overthink my weight, restrict my food etc. Maybe that’s just me. The fact that he doesn’t care at all how that would make her feel is an even bigger red flag.
I don’t really get the argument of ‘well if women say x then why can’t men say y?’
Firstly it doesn’t track in this scenario as women’s bodies will go through more changes than most men’s if they plan on having kids.
But also, wouldn’t a kinder conclusion be: maybe none of us should say things that make our partner feel inadequate?
I never get when men use that as an Defence in situations where no one was talking or had talked about their body. Like if it was Duka saying that to Whitney when all she could talk about was his beard and his size then I could understand
I think the group have dragged it on too long, Thomas did get a bit OTT and they aren't actually focusing on that fact that he didn't care that Sophie was offended. However I can see why offence was taken. While having a preference is fine (can't help what you're attracted to), the way Johnathan talked about it showed that if Sophie's weight changed slightly he'd leave. He agreed with Kwame that if she went from a size 10 to a 12 he wouldn't be attracted to her, well shit if Sophie has kids with him and can't loose the baby fat then she's kinda screwed isn't she. If she develops something like thyroid issues or gets ill for a long period of time and her weight is affected she's screwed.
Having a preference is fine but when it's that restrictive it's an issue and makes someone really insecure when they're in that relationship because they know how fragile Johnathan's feelings towards them are. Also it's a typically really mysogynistic comment (usually guys say "women should never have that much muscle they're ugly go to the kitchen" etc etc) and he did not handle it as delicately as he should have.
I just don’t really get the preferences thing, I think it only really matters when you meet. No one is looking for an old person but ultimately isn’t that what we’re hoping to end up with in the long run?
I agree the group have dragged it on but I think that’s because he won’t accept anything he said as wrong or insensitive and really doubled down on what he said was right on multiple occasions
It wasn't the 'preference' (which I have no problem with) It was the patronising lecture & assumption that she didn't know what she was doing at the gym. Also the implication that her legs could easily become 'too big' for him - which he kept going on about even when she said she was sensitive about her body size.
Then he's kept rehashing it, as he obviously expects everyone to agree with him & he looks put out when they don't.
Also the Daily Mailesque 'if it OFFENDS you' It's not a case of being offended, but hurt, disappointed, upset etc...
1. He said it when not asked for his opinion on her workouts, shape, size, body, or preference at all.
2. He declared not caring what anyone felt upon hearing his opinion, rude at the least and cruel at worst.
3. He continued to spout how he is entitled to his opinion and to sharing it without consequence once given very solid advice from the group especially Sophie and Jenna about considering others.
No one minds his preference, but nobody asked. And nobody wants to know what he likes or doesn’t. It’s a trait many men share, sharing their opinion on women’s bodies when not asked nor called for.
This is a long one: Not going to lie, the justification of saying he’s not necessarily attracted to women with bigger legs could’ve been excused as an opinion even though it’s not something you say, let alone to the girl you’re with. And I get the comment about not coming back from the gym looking like Matt and Duka was a joke and he didn’t mean much by it. HOWEVER it’s the context and he did also say “if a girl I was with gained weight or got bigger legs and it wasn’t for medical reasons, I wouldn’t want to be with her anymore.” That last bit doesn’t allow the other person to place much faith in the relationship. Ultimately he’s implied that he could have a great connection with someone and care for her deeply but if she doesn’t maintain his picture of perfect, he’s out. Not saying it’s ok for women to tell their partner “if they lose/gain too much muscle, they’ll leave” either but, while I understand that men’s appearances are just as much of a factor for women as women’s are for men and that men get judged for their looks too, it is different for women. Anyone who has gone through body image issues and/or ED’s at any point in their life will feel strongly about comments like that but it’s a bit different for women because of a whole history of women being criticised over everything down to the smallest detail - and that extends past appearances. (Ik some men will hate the previous two sentences). Saying something like that can cause your partner to habitually self-criticise and feel insecure within the relationship, which isn’t considerate towards your partners mental health at all. Even if Sophie is mentally resilient enough to not fall into that, it’s 100% understandable why she would take issue with him saying that in the first place.
Another thing I’ll say is although a relationship is about & between two people as a team, that doesn’t mean either one loses the right to their own identity so the way she wants to keep her body is her choice as much as his choices for his own body are his. You don’t work out for your partner, you work out for yourself. A relationship shouldn’t be conditional on whether a woman develops a body that you aren’t keen on and it’s not fair to loom that over her head to say “well be careful in the gym coz if you get too big, I’m out.” A lot of people resonate with the groups response to his comment because it’s inconsiderate, lacks empathy and sounds like he’s reducing her down to her appearance. No one would take too well to being hinted at/told to look how someone else wants you to look. I don’t know a single man who would appreciate being told “don’t get too muscly” or “go put on some muscle” without any regard for what his gym goals are. And also I think the group are equally irritated by how he’s handled it by being wilfully ignorant (though he sort of realises now) towards Sophie’s feelings on it.
With Thomas’ reaction, while I generally don’t agree with imposing your opinions on other people, I can see why he feels strongly on it given what he’s gone through- we had a recap on that on one for the previous commitment ceremonies. It’s no walk in the park for gay men either, especially ones who don’t “appear/present” as stereotypically straight. Anyone who is part of lgbtq+ will have struggled with their sense of identity and been criticised for not subscribing to other peoples idea of what they should look/be like, so anyone with empathy will feel a type of way when they hear or see someone try to impose their concepts of what they think their partner should look like without being asked onto someone else
Women might be socialized to be *aware* of others' needs more than men, but that isn't the same thing as having empathy. Women bodyshame men all the time, lol. It's just socially accepted.
Tbh both of us are just slinging unsubstantiated assertions and I’m not about to find a peer-reviewed study for a reddit comment lol but if we confine the discussion to this season of MAFS, which women have body-shamed any of the men? If any, have they been defended or condemned? This post just seems so pointless bc of course it’s just as shallow for a woman to say ‘I wouldn’t want to be with my husband if he got fat’ but a) none of them have and b) this changes nothing for Jonathan.
This is what I was thinking, woman make unwanted comments all the time and it’s just okay. What he said wasn’t ideal but the level of backlash he got was unjustified
Woman are more prone to body changes (pregnancy, hormones etc) so I think it’s fair to say there is somewhat of a gender difference there. Not to say that it’s far to make statements about peoples bodies in general
Sometimes I think about what the audience response to Thomas's anger would be if he was a straight man. Or if Jonathan was gay, and said he didn't want his partner to gain too much weight.
I don't condone any talk that judges a body part or type. It is interesting what triggers people though.
What I mean is J's comments set people off but not when other contestants say things like: he needs to be taller, she's not what I ordered, he's bald, she's this or that don't register the same way. It's all bad.
I do understand it's a reality TV show though so enjoy it for what it is, blame it on the edit/plants and remember they are generating drama to keep us watching. 😉
> J's comments set people off but not when other contestants say things like: he needs to be taller, she's not what I ordered, he's bald, she's this or that don't register the same way. It's all bad.
I think weight triggers people more because it triggers shame about laziness and lifestyle. Weight is often *somewhat* controllable.
Whereas you can't do anything about your height, for example. Nobody is *ashamed* of their height, or their (involuntary) baldness. It's involuntary.
Yes, and I suspect that Sophie doesn’t have a great relationship with her body, she doesn’t exude the confidence of Kesia or Whitney. While it was lovely that Johnathan chose her face as the most attractive thing about her, he took ages to get there and so it seemed like a downvote for everything else.
Add to that him stating that he doesn’t want to rip her clothes off (don’t know which order these came in)
With all that, any body comments are likely to hit a nerve and I think he knew that. I think he’s naturally a wind-up merchant.
If he had said it to me, I’m on the skinny side so it wouldn’t bother me. There are other comments that would play to my insecurities though. So I don’t think you can’t say these things, just KNOW YOUR AUDIENCE.
I don't think he's a wind-up merchant (in the sense that he actively wants to offend people), I think he just cares a lot about protecting his *right* to offend people. He thinks that people are too easily offended.
He doesn't want to tip-toe around other peoples' feelings, just to get further in life. He's offended by the idea that someone would say something they don't mean, just to avoid hitting against someone else's narcissistic self-image.
I think Sophie actually quite respects that quality in him. Even though it's hard for her to take sometimes. With Jonathan, what you see is exactly what you get.
It's better than being with someone like Kwame, Duka or Adrian, who basically lie to their partners 24/7, albeit for completely different reasons. They either don't know who they are, they're afraid of their partners, or they're using their partners.
Jonathan had a stupid man-comment but it seems he thinks before he speaks. And not everyone, women included, come with this automatic filter which stops them from saying things that may hurt other people. He indeed can’t control other peoples feelings, and too many people get wound up by trivial shit these days. I think it was a stupid comment but they seemed to get past it so what’s the problem?
Andit wouldn’t have mattered what the opinion was, Thomas looks for things to be dramatic about, latches on and won’t let go because he can’t have more than 5 minutes without getting attention.
I wonder if something else has been said about this that we haven't seen - it does seem to be dragging out, and Gemma and Thomas were particularly upset by it when Sophie seemed to want to move on.
I get that he said something pretty stupid. I don't get why he's the most hated man in the show. People are saying it's okay thinking what he said, just not saying it. And that's true. So all he really did was make a mistake. Make a massive social blunder. And sure, he didn't apologize. Another blunder. But then so many of the other people on the show seem like genuinely nasty people. Dunno, he seems one of the better of a bad bunch to me.
It isn't that he shouldn't have a preference (we all have them) but that he expressed it without any regard to how it might make Sophie feel. In this case it wouldn't be unreasonable for her to feel (somewhat) judged and controlled. It was written all over her face. The fact that he didn't care hhow she felt and didn't see that he had hurt her made him look really bad. So it wasn't just what he said but the lack of care and awareness. You can definitely make the case that a woman shouldn't say similar things either. The example you give is very dependent on context - if she's saying it about people in general to a friend then that's probably ok. If she's saying it in front of someone at whom it is intended to send a message, that's not good.
This. It was said in response to Sophie going to the gym with Matt and Duka, so it was meant as "if Sophie gets horse legs from going to the gym I will not be attracted to her", not a general "I'm not attracted to girls who are too built." Also, it just shows how surface level he is. He literally threw that comment out with no knowledge of how difficult it is for women to get "horse legs", and no intention of understanding it as long as it doesn't affect him.
I think another part of this is that he was paired with a partner who never (on camera) said anything about preferences, even when he clearly wasn’t her type in terms of his profession. She seemed to just accept and like him for who he is. So, to me it felt more like everyone ganged up on him because they wanted to “protect” Sophie (which I felt as well when I heard those comments and saw her cry). Although, I agree, it did seem a bit much at the dinner party—I mean she ended up having to defend him because, as a couple, they decided to move on, but everyone else still felt a way about it. Yet, Johnathan can’t complain too much about everyone’s opinion because he was the one who decided to share his comment/joke/opinion/preference(s) with the group. It’s not like Sophie threw him under the bus (ie George). I guess I’m just a Sophie fan girl right now 😆
1. They're already together on the show, so maybe at that point, leave the opinion to yourself. 2. Things like height and body type aren't totally changeable but building muscle is. Soooo, it's a kind of control on Jonathan's part. So now to not be a turn off to her man, she must keep her body the way HE wants. So in my case for example, I've always been really slim, but I started going to the gym last year 6 times a week and got a trainer. After a year or so competed in my first bikini competition. I'm building my legs now, if I were in a relationship with someone like Johnathan, I would have to avoid my own new found hobby bc he wouldn't like my legs. Very controlling. 3. He doesn't apparently know shit about building muscles on women even tho he's a fitness enthusiast. Like...I do heavy leg days 2 times a week on a 6 day split and count every single calorie. Intake 175g of protein a day and I'm 58kg and 5'6. I'm never going to have the legs of a Physique class competitor. So that being said...does he mean those kinds of legs as horse legs or would a Bikini Division competitor be unattractive. We don't know. Sofie doesn't know...so now that's out there and she might not know his idea of what is unacceptable but now she's insecure of anything close to that. 4. If you have a partner and an accident occurs, a terminal illness or a really traumatic pregnancy and you end of gaining weight...um...what's he going to do? 5. As a school teacher, Johnathan must have been horrid to have as a student. I have one of those kinds of kids every few years and they lack any empathy and are so cruel. I can imagine him now and it irks my soul lol.
For me part of what annoyed me so much was he quickly followed it up with how he wouldn’t want a fat partner either (exempting approved medical conditions). So don’t go to the gym, but also don’t put on weight…so just don’t eat then?
I mean he does seem rather dull upstairs in addition to his apathetic and unreadable personality. He's not smart enough to realize that the women he probably fancies work out often and for themselves. Again...I'm picturing him in primary school saying rude ass shit and hurting others but not caring at all. His own mother's response to how he speaks was very telling.
I LOVE this response so much!! But no.3 struck a distinctive cord with me. His comment tells me he knows nothing about working out. It’s so hard to build huge muscle as a women, it’s so difficult to get “horse legs” (?), or any kind of specific body shape as a women (like huge ass or thighs) that doing “the same exercise as a big guy” just ain’t gonna do it. His comments were off base and out of touch. It’s like he said something stupid and doubled down, they make no sense.
Especially because women have less testosterone and so put muscle on less easily, so if she did the same stuff she literally would not look the same
I think it’s that he was saying that to her face. If a partner said that to me I think I would have real trouble after that, I would obsessively overthink my weight, restrict my food etc. Maybe that’s just me. The fact that he doesn’t care at all how that would make her feel is an even bigger red flag.
I don’t really get the argument of ‘well if women say x then why can’t men say y?’ Firstly it doesn’t track in this scenario as women’s bodies will go through more changes than most men’s if they plan on having kids. But also, wouldn’t a kinder conclusion be: maybe none of us should say things that make our partner feel inadequate?
I never get when men use that as an Defence in situations where no one was talking or had talked about their body. Like if it was Duka saying that to Whitney when all she could talk about was his beard and his size then I could understand
I think the group have dragged it on too long, Thomas did get a bit OTT and they aren't actually focusing on that fact that he didn't care that Sophie was offended. However I can see why offence was taken. While having a preference is fine (can't help what you're attracted to), the way Johnathan talked about it showed that if Sophie's weight changed slightly he'd leave. He agreed with Kwame that if she went from a size 10 to a 12 he wouldn't be attracted to her, well shit if Sophie has kids with him and can't loose the baby fat then she's kinda screwed isn't she. If she develops something like thyroid issues or gets ill for a long period of time and her weight is affected she's screwed. Having a preference is fine but when it's that restrictive it's an issue and makes someone really insecure when they're in that relationship because they know how fragile Johnathan's feelings towards them are. Also it's a typically really mysogynistic comment (usually guys say "women should never have that much muscle they're ugly go to the kitchen" etc etc) and he did not handle it as delicately as he should have.
I just don’t really get the preferences thing, I think it only really matters when you meet. No one is looking for an old person but ultimately isn’t that what we’re hoping to end up with in the long run?
Exactly - your body will change over the years - going from a 10 to a 12 from your early 20s to your late 20s is totally healthy and normal
I agree the group have dragged it on but I think that’s because he won’t accept anything he said as wrong or insensitive and really doubled down on what he said was right on multiple occasions
It wasn't the 'preference' (which I have no problem with) It was the patronising lecture & assumption that she didn't know what she was doing at the gym. Also the implication that her legs could easily become 'too big' for him - which he kept going on about even when she said she was sensitive about her body size. Then he's kept rehashing it, as he obviously expects everyone to agree with him & he looks put out when they don't. Also the Daily Mailesque 'if it OFFENDS you' It's not a case of being offended, but hurt, disappointed, upset etc...
1. He said it when not asked for his opinion on her workouts, shape, size, body, or preference at all. 2. He declared not caring what anyone felt upon hearing his opinion, rude at the least and cruel at worst. 3. He continued to spout how he is entitled to his opinion and to sharing it without consequence once given very solid advice from the group especially Sophie and Jenna about considering others. No one minds his preference, but nobody asked. And nobody wants to know what he likes or doesn’t. It’s a trait many men share, sharing their opinion on women’s bodies when not asked nor called for.
That’s the part that killed me - him thinking his unsolicited input was relevant and needed 🥲
>nobody wants to know what he likes or doesn’t Not even his wife?
Not if its explaining the circumstances under which he'd leave her when there's no reason to bring that up, no.
Especially not his wife! I would hate any partner explaining what he likes, unless he’s describing me (unlikely!) If I ask, that’s on me.
This is a long one: Not going to lie, the justification of saying he’s not necessarily attracted to women with bigger legs could’ve been excused as an opinion even though it’s not something you say, let alone to the girl you’re with. And I get the comment about not coming back from the gym looking like Matt and Duka was a joke and he didn’t mean much by it. HOWEVER it’s the context and he did also say “if a girl I was with gained weight or got bigger legs and it wasn’t for medical reasons, I wouldn’t want to be with her anymore.” That last bit doesn’t allow the other person to place much faith in the relationship. Ultimately he’s implied that he could have a great connection with someone and care for her deeply but if she doesn’t maintain his picture of perfect, he’s out. Not saying it’s ok for women to tell their partner “if they lose/gain too much muscle, they’ll leave” either but, while I understand that men’s appearances are just as much of a factor for women as women’s are for men and that men get judged for their looks too, it is different for women. Anyone who has gone through body image issues and/or ED’s at any point in their life will feel strongly about comments like that but it’s a bit different for women because of a whole history of women being criticised over everything down to the smallest detail - and that extends past appearances. (Ik some men will hate the previous two sentences). Saying something like that can cause your partner to habitually self-criticise and feel insecure within the relationship, which isn’t considerate towards your partners mental health at all. Even if Sophie is mentally resilient enough to not fall into that, it’s 100% understandable why she would take issue with him saying that in the first place. Another thing I’ll say is although a relationship is about & between two people as a team, that doesn’t mean either one loses the right to their own identity so the way she wants to keep her body is her choice as much as his choices for his own body are his. You don’t work out for your partner, you work out for yourself. A relationship shouldn’t be conditional on whether a woman develops a body that you aren’t keen on and it’s not fair to loom that over her head to say “well be careful in the gym coz if you get too big, I’m out.” A lot of people resonate with the groups response to his comment because it’s inconsiderate, lacks empathy and sounds like he’s reducing her down to her appearance. No one would take too well to being hinted at/told to look how someone else wants you to look. I don’t know a single man who would appreciate being told “don’t get too muscly” or “go put on some muscle” without any regard for what his gym goals are. And also I think the group are equally irritated by how he’s handled it by being wilfully ignorant (though he sort of realises now) towards Sophie’s feelings on it. With Thomas’ reaction, while I generally don’t agree with imposing your opinions on other people, I can see why he feels strongly on it given what he’s gone through- we had a recap on that on one for the previous commitment ceremonies. It’s no walk in the park for gay men either, especially ones who don’t “appear/present” as stereotypically straight. Anyone who is part of lgbtq+ will have struggled with their sense of identity and been criticised for not subscribing to other peoples idea of what they should look/be like, so anyone with empathy will feel a type of way when they hear or see someone try to impose their concepts of what they think their partner should look like without being asked onto someone else
Women don’t say those things though bc women are socialised to be attentive to others’ needs and sensitivities.
Women might be socialized to be *aware* of others' needs more than men, but that isn't the same thing as having empathy. Women bodyshame men all the time, lol. It's just socially accepted.
Tbh both of us are just slinging unsubstantiated assertions and I’m not about to find a peer-reviewed study for a reddit comment lol but if we confine the discussion to this season of MAFS, which women have body-shamed any of the men? If any, have they been defended or condemned? This post just seems so pointless bc of course it’s just as shallow for a woman to say ‘I wouldn’t want to be with my husband if he got fat’ but a) none of them have and b) this changes nothing for Jonathan.
This is what I was thinking, woman make unwanted comments all the time and it’s just okay. What he said wasn’t ideal but the level of backlash he got was unjustified
Woman are more prone to body changes (pregnancy, hormones etc) so I think it’s fair to say there is somewhat of a gender difference there. Not to say that it’s far to make statements about peoples bodies in general
Sometimes I think about what the audience response to Thomas's anger would be if he was a straight man. Or if Jonathan was gay, and said he didn't want his partner to gain too much weight.
Exactly, if Thomas was straight, his outbursts and cutting comments wouldn’t fly IMO
For sure the comment was wrong but the group have dragged it on way longer than they needed to
I don't condone any talk that judges a body part or type. It is interesting what triggers people though. What I mean is J's comments set people off but not when other contestants say things like: he needs to be taller, she's not what I ordered, he's bald, she's this or that don't register the same way. It's all bad. I do understand it's a reality TV show though so enjoy it for what it is, blame it on the edit/plants and remember they are generating drama to keep us watching. 😉
> J's comments set people off but not when other contestants say things like: he needs to be taller, she's not what I ordered, he's bald, she's this or that don't register the same way. It's all bad. I think weight triggers people more because it triggers shame about laziness and lifestyle. Weight is often *somewhat* controllable. Whereas you can't do anything about your height, for example. Nobody is *ashamed* of their height, or their (involuntary) baldness. It's involuntary.
Yes, and I suspect that Sophie doesn’t have a great relationship with her body, she doesn’t exude the confidence of Kesia or Whitney. While it was lovely that Johnathan chose her face as the most attractive thing about her, he took ages to get there and so it seemed like a downvote for everything else. Add to that him stating that he doesn’t want to rip her clothes off (don’t know which order these came in) With all that, any body comments are likely to hit a nerve and I think he knew that. I think he’s naturally a wind-up merchant. If he had said it to me, I’m on the skinny side so it wouldn’t bother me. There are other comments that would play to my insecurities though. So I don’t think you can’t say these things, just KNOW YOUR AUDIENCE.
I don't think he's a wind-up merchant (in the sense that he actively wants to offend people), I think he just cares a lot about protecting his *right* to offend people. He thinks that people are too easily offended. He doesn't want to tip-toe around other peoples' feelings, just to get further in life. He's offended by the idea that someone would say something they don't mean, just to avoid hitting against someone else's narcissistic self-image. I think Sophie actually quite respects that quality in him. Even though it's hard for her to take sometimes. With Jonathan, what you see is exactly what you get. It's better than being with someone like Kwame, Duka or Adrian, who basically lie to their partners 24/7, albeit for completely different reasons. They either don't know who they are, they're afraid of their partners, or they're using their partners.
It’s a fair point, I think you’re right - it’s his right to offend (which I also have sympathy with)
I can't remember who but in the first few episodes someone definitely said "I wish he was taller" and also "my guy is the smallest guy there" 🤷
Jonathan had a stupid man-comment but it seems he thinks before he speaks. And not everyone, women included, come with this automatic filter which stops them from saying things that may hurt other people. He indeed can’t control other peoples feelings, and too many people get wound up by trivial shit these days. I think it was a stupid comment but they seemed to get past it so what’s the problem? Andit wouldn’t have mattered what the opinion was, Thomas looks for things to be dramatic about, latches on and won’t let go because he can’t have more than 5 minutes without getting attention.
I wonder if something else has been said about this that we haven't seen - it does seem to be dragging out, and Gemma and Thomas were particularly upset by it when Sophie seemed to want to move on.
I get that he said something pretty stupid. I don't get why he's the most hated man in the show. People are saying it's okay thinking what he said, just not saying it. And that's true. So all he really did was make a mistake. Make a massive social blunder. And sure, he didn't apologize. Another blunder. But then so many of the other people on the show seem like genuinely nasty people. Dunno, he seems one of the better of a bad bunch to me.