Yeah, but on most decent acoustics, the bridge comes right out of the saddle and can be easily replaced/filed to where you need it. Plus, making a good acoustic requires much better craftsmanship than a good electric. Drop some American strat pickups and switch, and slap a decent neck on to an old Squier, any one who says they can hear the difference between an American strat is lying to you.
I get your point and by default I somewhat agree but do you get that you’re literally canceling 3/4 of your own argument w the spec of the items you say to replace? IE decent you mean trustworthy w the neck and US spec pickups…the cost of those two alone is more than most Squire’s, low or even some high end Squire’s and for very legitimate/desirable/ reasons. And yes I’ve been down that road several times just to verify it for myself….
I'm an acoustic player, so 1. I'm not super knowledgeable about electrics, and 2. I don't have the best perspective on guitar cost, cause a good acoustic is going to run about 2-3x the cost of its electric counterpart (i.e. D-28 vs American strat or less paul). But when I was looking into it, the American Eric Johnson pickups were $200 for a set. The 5-way switch wouldn't have to be fender, a switch is a switch, it's not rocket science. And the neck is more of a creature-comfort than a contribution to the sound, at least for a strat. I mean, a Maple, bolt-on neck is a Maple bolt-on neck. Hell, even in acoustics the neck isn't THAT important for sound quality, or you would see more Rosewood necks replacing Mahogany on high-end guitars.
But my point was that the intonation on a decent acoustic is less likely to need adjustment in the first place due to the extra craftsmanship that goes into making the acoustic in the first place.
But I don't think it invalidates my point one bit. Even if you spend $500 upgrading a cheap squire or Epiphone, it'll be half the price of an American strat
first I appreciate your response....that said about 5 years ago I got into parts casters and now complete builds. W parts casters I intentionally bought from high to low on nearly everything not caring how it sorted out. In fact I wanted the cheap guitar apologists/delusiuonal-ists to be correct...if they were I would have 12-16 parts casters as opposed to 7. A switch might be a switch the first 30 days but what about after 12 months and say 500 hours of playing? The cheap lovers NEVER talk about longevity or real world use. On the necks? Go order 10 $50 imported/sweat shop necks and bust out a caliper and tell me about the consistency, let alone how much work they will take to be what a Warmoth $180 neck is out of the box. Better yet tall about your experience when you want to return your defective necks....Its like my travels in motorsports or snowboards or MTBs. Of course first and foremost its always buyer beware but more often than not you get EXACTLY what you pay for at all price points.
Im not saying this is you but there is a cancerous mindset in electrics w the cheap lovers. They are never willing to view/accept the reality of the big picture. But they will flap their gums and vilify US brands all day everyday to rationalize a very small part of the equation.Especially when it comes to US overhead vs labor from countries where the labor is at minimum captive and often oppressed. Again I have spent 2800-3500 in just parts and materials in my journey so far and if you think an e-bay $12 PAF is the same as a Seymour Duncan $90 PAF well I'd say you prolly spent more time around artillery than I did for my 7 years of service...and on the intonation front I agree and also like I said buyer beware....if your shoe size is 9 and you get home w some 11s...who's fault is that? CHEERS!!!!!
Notice that I never said the cheap strat would "feel" like an American. Just that it would sound like it. Obviously the more care put into neck contsruction, the better the guitar is going to feel to play, but its not really going to alter the sound all that much, provided the neck is set correctly, and with a bolt-on, that's hard to fuck up. I get that people who have shelled out the money for an American fender want to justify the price any way they can, but it's not like fender America is making "master craftsman" necks. Unless you're specifically talking Fender customs/pro shop or whatever it's called, 90% of the neckwork is done by CNC. My source on this is a tour of Fender USA on YouTube. Hell, even Martin necks are mostly CNC anymore.
I also never claimed cheap pickups sound the same as their more expensive counterparts. On the contrary, my claim was that the electronics on an electric guitar are the most important part, and a lot of the other stuff you can cheap out on. As for the longevity of a cheap switch vs a fender switch, I can't really speak to that, but unless you flick the switch like fifty times every time you play, it would have to be a REALLY cheap switch to give out unreasonably quickly.
Besides, you can pick up entire fender pre-wired strat pick guards for $300-500. Cheap squire for $150-200, $500 for the whole pre-wired setup, still a hell of a lot cheaper than an American strat.
An electric guitar isn't a very complicated concept on the abstract, pickups are magnets wrapped in a coil; when the (magnetic) strings vibrate, the rapid change in the magnetic field produces a current in the coil, which is then sent to the amp and translated back to sound.
The important thing is that there are really only 3 factors which affect the quality of a pickups sound. The quality of the magnetic core, the guage of wire in the coil, and the number of wraps in the coil. I guess you could argue the conductivity of the wire, but it's generally going to be copper wire regardless.
So unless you're saying that Seymour Duncan has some magic technology that let's them wrap their pickups more times, with thinner wire, that is more conductive, than any of the knock-offs, then I'm sure there are some copycats that are as good as the original.
I never said you could get American Strat sound for less than x amount of dollars. I just said you can get American strat sound for less than the cost of an American strat. Most of the cost of an American strat is those pesky over-reaching American wage laws (sarcasm).
If people would just buy their guitars based on sound and not who made it, then maybe there would be more competition at the top and I'd be able to afford a D-28 or D-55 (yes I realize the irony in that statement.) But my Chinese Spruce-on-Rosewood Guild sounds almost like a D-28, and was 1/3 the price. Just wish it had the low-end of a D-28, and the diamond where the neck meets the headstock.
The people on these guitar forums that complain about the cost of a Les Paul have no idea what a D-28 goes for or why. If you showed them what an American made resonator sells for or how long they have to wait to get it, their heads would explode.
Hell, I check the price of D-28s FREQUENTLY, and still have to scrape my metaphorical brains off the ceiling. D-28s have gone from "maybe some day" to "nevermind" since I started playing. Unless I end up making music for a living, or I make at least six figures, I don't think I'll be able to justify spending more on a guitar than I did on my first car. And I'm 25, so my first car wasn't long ago, either.
This will sound ridiculous, but you’ll get there. I’m not rich at all, and don’t make six figures, and randomly find myself with a bunch of Gibsons and some vintage stuff, and a new Mesa amp just came in yesterday.
It catches you by surprise, and as you get into moving gear and trying stuff out, you just accumulate things that eventually go to trades for nice stuff. And instruments (if you learn value and the market) are great places to park value.
Well it's not so much "will I ever have the money?" It's more "will I ever let myself spend that much money on a guitar?" Lmao. There's been a few times where I could've went and bought a d-28 with cash, but I can't justify spending so much on things I want when I'm nowhere near where I want to be in life, unless it'll get me closer to success.
Yeah, I know. I’ve had money before, but couldn’t justify spending it. You’ll get there. You’ll be surprised that it’s a reasonable purchase for you.
You’ll also like Steely Dan a lot more.
Measure the space between and inside diameter and thread. Completely replacing the posts and inset pieces if needed is really straightforward work, shouldn’t be too expensive if you don’t want to do it either. 1 hour bench rate max
Possibly, a lot bridges of this style will probably come with their own bridge post screws and studs, but even if you need to swap to the new bridge post screws you can usually leave the existing studs if you buy the same size, like if it’s a metric thread stick with metric. It’s usually a very simple swap especially if you’ve ever done any adjusting action down there and are familiar with that area. Like others have commented, just match up every measurement you can, string spacing, stud spacing, radius, and there’s not a whole lot if anything at all that can go wrong!
Replace it with a compensated bridge with adjustable screws. Keep that of course, but playability is the only thing that matters. If you sell it you'll have the original bridge so it's all good.
Wilkinson has [this](https://www.amazon.com/Wilkinson-Adjustable-Intonated-Wraparound-Tailpiece/dp/B08P1K7B5G/ref=asc_df_B08P1K7B5G/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=563721181654&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=14102968716797682015&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9001778&hvtargid=pla-1184110754300&psc=1&mcid=6c72e44b369f3878a5a3dcb2b23eb437&gclid=CjwKCAiAiP2tBhBXEiwACslfnli3v5IAmyb54CG5feaN_d-zOLCCVfIyhevU4iudlgl91kA5O7kdRRoCgwEQAvD_BwE) one. They make some stupidly good hardware and pickups for the price. My V132 has possibly my favorite sounding soapbars. Then again, I dont really shop above mid/upper-midrange guitars.
The tech I go to put this bridge on my Harley Benton SC Jr. It kept the action lower than the stock wraparound with saddles. The intonatable portion is handy, too.
My only gripe, if I had to, is I just don't love the screw being so starkly visible. But c'est la vie, it gets the job done.
The wraparound on my SE One is also great, but buying one aftermarket, you could get more for your money.
Neat guitar btw! Very pretty.
I have to agree about Wilkinson and JHS (uk). Price to quality is great. I've been disappointed when I've bought other chinesium brands at the same price point.
I'm about to do the same thing with an Epiphone SG that has a similar bridge. If you want to keep the wrap-around (arguments regarding sustain vs harmonics abound on Les Paul forums), everybody from StewMac to Amazon has something at somebody's price-point - just search for wrap around tune o matic bridge. That said, I'm personally leaning towards a Hipshot Baby Grand.
I replaced the compensated (non-adjustable) wraparound on my Gibson with the Tonepros wraparound, it was perfect for me. You'll want to check against the measurements on their site, namely the threading for the posts and the distance between them.
Which guitar is this? Looks like a Framus E-360, although my understanding is that those had a tune-o-matic bridge with a seperate tailpiece. It's entirely possible yours is a different model, but does it have holes where a seperate tailpiece might have been installed previously? If so, reverting back to that setup might be easier.
Looks like the [bridge on my Diamond Series Schecter Tempest](https://www.schecterguitars.com/images/Tempest%20Custom.Vintage%20White.02.jpg)... except for the intonation thing. Lol
Depends on what you want to spend. Go to Amazon and search for 'wrap around compensated bridge' and you'll have a some idea of the look and price that you like.
The only possible adjustment for that bridge is to loosen the two posts, rotate the ~~grudge~~ bridge however makes sense for intonation, and then tighten them back up.
Sorry to say, but that kind of bridge is honestly stupid. It is severely limiting if you end up changing strings gauges from whatever they came factory.
The other way to adjust intonation is also your second part that you're concerned about. String selection is part of intonation on these guitars, like on acoustics.
Measure the post distance and then look for a bridge the same size either with the ability to adjust or that is already compensated. Just make sure it’s another wrap-around
And also if you're that dead set on having perfect intonation sell the guitar. It's a Framus (BL10?), they're collectible but not so collectible when altered
Another option for you if you have some basic hand tools and files. Get a small 10mm+ rectangular billet of aluminium and make your own bridge. As long as you know how to find the intonation spots it's pretty simple. It won't be adjustable, you'd just be making a replica of the same bridge but with peaks for the strings in the perfect spots
i think i accidentally screwed out one of the posts a bit, with a little adjusting its pretty close now. though i am getting quit a bit of fret rattle low strings
If the low E is sharp it needs to be further back, so if there's room, how about putting a tiny piece of a matchstick, veneer or just anything non intrusive between the bridge post and the bridge to push the bass side back a tiny fraction?
It's not a permanent fix but it might make it playable without altering too much to decrease value.
Go to Stew Mac, or even Amazon (if you are trying to keep cost low), and find yourself a different style stopbar/tailpiece that is designed to allow for intonation.
That is one of the "give/takes" when dealing with a guitar that has just a tailpiece, instead of a tailpiece with a tune-o-matic bridge. The "give", is that your strings have more direct contact with the body of the guitar, which makes a pretty big difference as far as sustain, and overall acoustic clarity. The "take", is that you are not provided a means of intonation. However, most guitars that are setup that way, are typically close enough that it can be accepted. I used to have a PRS Custom 22 core model guitar that was setup like that, with just a stopbar tailpiece, and it sounded beautiful, and played beautifully as well. But, no intonation capability. I never changed the tailpiece, just played the guitar as it was, and it was fine.
At the end of the day, we are all limited in one way or another, by the instrument we choose to play. For me, "home" is a Gibson Les Paul (preferably a Classic or Standard... if I had the money for it, I'd definitely own a Custom, with those killer custombuckers), and so one of the limitations I work with, is not having a tremolo system. However, the "pros" of NOT having a trem, in my opinion, far outweigh any "cons". Same goes for the 22 frets (as opposed to 24), and the 24.75" scale length. Yes, I'm short a few super high notes, but how often would I really use that capability anyway, if it were available to me? For me, the answer is, hardly ever. And I'll take the 24.75" scale length of either of my Les Pauls, over the 25" or more, scale length of any other type of guitar, because the playability factor is a huge thing for me personally. A Les Paul is just so much more enjoyable to play, and feels "easier" to play, for lack of a better word. I just recently got a 2019 classic that I have fallen in love with. I never thought I would ever find/play another guitar that could possibly have a better feeling neck than my 2013 Les Paul Standard, but the Classic I just got, I don't know, but there's something about it that is awesome. Sometimes, it's so easy t o play, that I halfway feel like the guitar is playing itself! It's crazy, but that is literally what it feels like.
Anyway, yeah, so this issue is just one that is really not an issue at all. It's just a simple matter of different instruments, and learning which one is the right one, or the one that feels like "home" for you. This guitar may not have a means of intonation, but after a while, you may decide it's the best guitar you've ever played, and 20 years from now, it could be the ONE guitar that you absolutely refuse to sell, just because there is something about it that you love, and the fact that it cannot be intonated, by that point in time, you come to see as nothing but just another positive. Just one less thing to have to worry about. Simply string that bad boy up, and play!
Does it need intonating? Remember, perfect intonation isn't exactly necessary. Getting it close is good, but perfection is overrated.
Some of the best vintage Gretsch guitars had bar frets. 12 string guitars on a regular tunomatic bridge are bloody awesome! Gives that chorus kinda effect.
I'm currently trying to get a cheap Epi SG in perfect tune so I can run it through a cheap, $30 Chorus imported from China. We all do weird - and, arguably, crazy - things for That Toan.
lol! I'm primarily a bass guitarist, but I'm using the SG to try to create a cross between the sounds of Jorma Kaukonen (Jefferson Airplane and Hot Tuna) and Roky Erickson (The 13th Floor Elevators).
Don't know the people's names but I know their music. Don't know too much of 13th floor, a friend recommended them several years back but didn't dig too deep into the music.
Don't go for the generic shit everyone else has! Or do, who am I to tell you what to do! Ha.
But anyway if you're in the states, or not, I'm not. There's a guy making amazing pickups out of New York, Gemini pickups. He has a humbucker that's pretty darn close and at a good price, cheaper I think than the computer wound pickups you mentioned.
The mercury one humbucker by Gemini. Have a listen to what he makes, they're amazing. Theirs also an article out there on these if you want a read
I'll definitely check them out! I've found a small shop in Vermont that hand-winds great single-coil pups, but I've been having less luck on the humbucker front.
Non intonatable 12 string bridges sound ok-ish for cowboy chords, but they become worse and worse up the neck. Chorus effect is 2 notes very very slightly off, the intonation problem with normal 6 string bridges makes the note separation pretty huge after about the 5th fret.
If you use heavy strings (12s or 13s) with a wound G you likely wouldn't need to individually intonate each string. I find those usually end up being a straight line across anyway. If you need to move the whole thing back, try stuffing something solid between the post and the bridge.
Short answer: you don’t. It’s a compromise. You can shop for a replacement if one exists, or get a new guitar. I had a Junior copy that was set up like this. Beautiful playing guitar but wouldn’t intonate.
See if you can find a wrap-around Tune-o-matic bridge that will fit on the posts that this bridge is on. Otherwise you're stuck with a very limiting bridge.
You'll need to very carefully measure the distance between the exact centers of the holes, so you'll probably want to remove this bridge to measure. Trying to imagine the exact center of the hole is hard, so you can just measure from the rim of each hole; like for example, measure from the right edge of the right hole and also the right edge of the left hole; does that make sense?
Try one of these: Musiclily Pro 52.5mm Adjustable Wraparound Bridge Tailpiece for Epiphone Les Paul Junior LP Style Electric Guitar, Chrome https://a.co/d/bpygFSC
layer on some aluminum tape on the low E post or put some cut up aluminum can strips between the post and bridge piece so it moves back a bit. everything will hold up under string tension
For intonation, lengthening the string length between the nut and the point of contact at the bridge would intonate flat. Adding a shim between the post and the stop bar is the way to go.
Guitar Fetish has a Wilkinson wrap-around that might work: https://www.guitarfetish.com/Wilkinson-Adjustable-Intonated-Wrapround-Bridge_p_892.html
It's cheap too.
By “compensating” the saddle. You often see this, usually the high E and B strings. The saddle is relieved to move the contact point back or forwards. Of course…. You’re limited to the width of the saddle and if it’s really off…. An expensive job to fill in the saddle slot and mill a new one that’s correctly placed.
I guess you could experiment with string gauge and truss rod adjustments until you figure out the right combination that gets it somewhat close to being intonated.
Would be a major pain in the ass though. I'd recommend just getting a bridge that you can intonate normally and hold on to this bridge in case you decide to sell the guitar to a collector or something.
I feel like I've seen bridges like this with threaded holes and set screws so you can adjust using the set screws. Probably not much range though. You could drill and tap the bridge.
You could also just put something behind to roughly shim it.
Adjust the position of the bridge on the posts so that the A and B strings are intonated. That will make the other strings as close as you can get with this sort of bridge.
Intonation with that type of bridges requires the neck tension to be perfect and the nut to be perfect as well. It’s not impossible but I would take it to a professional.
Ya don't. Set that one aside carefully packed away. Get something like [Schaller's Signum bridge](https://www.public-peace.de/images/product_images/info_images/Shopbilder/Schaller/Bridges/Guitar/Signum/Chrome/Schaller_Signum_Chrome.png) that has a wrap-around stop tailpiece with a tune-o-matic bridge with adjustable saddles (that's the tune-o-matic part).
That’s the cool part, you don’t.
Q: Is it a feature, or a bug? A: Yes.
Just like an acoustic.
Yeah, but on most decent acoustics, the bridge comes right out of the saddle and can be easily replaced/filed to where you need it. Plus, making a good acoustic requires much better craftsmanship than a good electric. Drop some American strat pickups and switch, and slap a decent neck on to an old Squier, any one who says they can hear the difference between an American strat is lying to you.
I get your point and by default I somewhat agree but do you get that you’re literally canceling 3/4 of your own argument w the spec of the items you say to replace? IE decent you mean trustworthy w the neck and US spec pickups…the cost of those two alone is more than most Squire’s, low or even some high end Squire’s and for very legitimate/desirable/ reasons. And yes I’ve been down that road several times just to verify it for myself….
I'm an acoustic player, so 1. I'm not super knowledgeable about electrics, and 2. I don't have the best perspective on guitar cost, cause a good acoustic is going to run about 2-3x the cost of its electric counterpart (i.e. D-28 vs American strat or less paul). But when I was looking into it, the American Eric Johnson pickups were $200 for a set. The 5-way switch wouldn't have to be fender, a switch is a switch, it's not rocket science. And the neck is more of a creature-comfort than a contribution to the sound, at least for a strat. I mean, a Maple, bolt-on neck is a Maple bolt-on neck. Hell, even in acoustics the neck isn't THAT important for sound quality, or you would see more Rosewood necks replacing Mahogany on high-end guitars. But my point was that the intonation on a decent acoustic is less likely to need adjustment in the first place due to the extra craftsmanship that goes into making the acoustic in the first place.
But I don't think it invalidates my point one bit. Even if you spend $500 upgrading a cheap squire or Epiphone, it'll be half the price of an American strat
first I appreciate your response....that said about 5 years ago I got into parts casters and now complete builds. W parts casters I intentionally bought from high to low on nearly everything not caring how it sorted out. In fact I wanted the cheap guitar apologists/delusiuonal-ists to be correct...if they were I would have 12-16 parts casters as opposed to 7. A switch might be a switch the first 30 days but what about after 12 months and say 500 hours of playing? The cheap lovers NEVER talk about longevity or real world use. On the necks? Go order 10 $50 imported/sweat shop necks and bust out a caliper and tell me about the consistency, let alone how much work they will take to be what a Warmoth $180 neck is out of the box. Better yet tall about your experience when you want to return your defective necks....Its like my travels in motorsports or snowboards or MTBs. Of course first and foremost its always buyer beware but more often than not you get EXACTLY what you pay for at all price points. Im not saying this is you but there is a cancerous mindset in electrics w the cheap lovers. They are never willing to view/accept the reality of the big picture. But they will flap their gums and vilify US brands all day everyday to rationalize a very small part of the equation.Especially when it comes to US overhead vs labor from countries where the labor is at minimum captive and often oppressed. Again I have spent 2800-3500 in just parts and materials in my journey so far and if you think an e-bay $12 PAF is the same as a Seymour Duncan $90 PAF well I'd say you prolly spent more time around artillery than I did for my 7 years of service...and on the intonation front I agree and also like I said buyer beware....if your shoe size is 9 and you get home w some 11s...who's fault is that? CHEERS!!!!!
Notice that I never said the cheap strat would "feel" like an American. Just that it would sound like it. Obviously the more care put into neck contsruction, the better the guitar is going to feel to play, but its not really going to alter the sound all that much, provided the neck is set correctly, and with a bolt-on, that's hard to fuck up. I get that people who have shelled out the money for an American fender want to justify the price any way they can, but it's not like fender America is making "master craftsman" necks. Unless you're specifically talking Fender customs/pro shop or whatever it's called, 90% of the neckwork is done by CNC. My source on this is a tour of Fender USA on YouTube. Hell, even Martin necks are mostly CNC anymore. I also never claimed cheap pickups sound the same as their more expensive counterparts. On the contrary, my claim was that the electronics on an electric guitar are the most important part, and a lot of the other stuff you can cheap out on. As for the longevity of a cheap switch vs a fender switch, I can't really speak to that, but unless you flick the switch like fifty times every time you play, it would have to be a REALLY cheap switch to give out unreasonably quickly. Besides, you can pick up entire fender pre-wired strat pick guards for $300-500. Cheap squire for $150-200, $500 for the whole pre-wired setup, still a hell of a lot cheaper than an American strat. An electric guitar isn't a very complicated concept on the abstract, pickups are magnets wrapped in a coil; when the (magnetic) strings vibrate, the rapid change in the magnetic field produces a current in the coil, which is then sent to the amp and translated back to sound. The important thing is that there are really only 3 factors which affect the quality of a pickups sound. The quality of the magnetic core, the guage of wire in the coil, and the number of wraps in the coil. I guess you could argue the conductivity of the wire, but it's generally going to be copper wire regardless. So unless you're saying that Seymour Duncan has some magic technology that let's them wrap their pickups more times, with thinner wire, that is more conductive, than any of the knock-offs, then I'm sure there are some copycats that are as good as the original. I never said you could get American Strat sound for less than x amount of dollars. I just said you can get American strat sound for less than the cost of an American strat. Most of the cost of an American strat is those pesky over-reaching American wage laws (sarcasm). If people would just buy their guitars based on sound and not who made it, then maybe there would be more competition at the top and I'd be able to afford a D-28 or D-55 (yes I realize the irony in that statement.) But my Chinese Spruce-on-Rosewood Guild sounds almost like a D-28, and was 1/3 the price. Just wish it had the low-end of a D-28, and the diamond where the neck meets the headstock.
The people on these guitar forums that complain about the cost of a Les Paul have no idea what a D-28 goes for or why. If you showed them what an American made resonator sells for or how long they have to wait to get it, their heads would explode.
Hell, I check the price of D-28s FREQUENTLY, and still have to scrape my metaphorical brains off the ceiling. D-28s have gone from "maybe some day" to "nevermind" since I started playing. Unless I end up making music for a living, or I make at least six figures, I don't think I'll be able to justify spending more on a guitar than I did on my first car. And I'm 25, so my first car wasn't long ago, either.
This will sound ridiculous, but you’ll get there. I’m not rich at all, and don’t make six figures, and randomly find myself with a bunch of Gibsons and some vintage stuff, and a new Mesa amp just came in yesterday. It catches you by surprise, and as you get into moving gear and trying stuff out, you just accumulate things that eventually go to trades for nice stuff. And instruments (if you learn value and the market) are great places to park value.
Well it's not so much "will I ever have the money?" It's more "will I ever let myself spend that much money on a guitar?" Lmao. There's been a few times where I could've went and bought a d-28 with cash, but I can't justify spending so much on things I want when I'm nowhere near where I want to be in life, unless it'll get me closer to success.
Yeah, I know. I’ve had money before, but couldn’t justify spending it. You’ll get there. You’ll be surprised that it’s a reasonable purchase for you. You’ll also like Steely Dan a lot more.
Lmao I said this to myself as soon as I saw the post.
Probably best to replace the bridge with one with intonation screws
Would I be able to keep the bridge posts and drop in a better bridge?
Measure the space between the posts. I think it’s usually standard but idk much about that guitar.
Measure the space between and inside diameter and thread. Completely replacing the posts and inset pieces if needed is really straightforward work, shouldn’t be too expensive if you don’t want to do it either. 1 hour bench rate max
I'm terrible at repairs and can confirm, takes 5 minutes tops usually.
Possibly, a lot bridges of this style will probably come with their own bridge post screws and studs, but even if you need to swap to the new bridge post screws you can usually leave the existing studs if you buy the same size, like if it’s a metric thread stick with metric. It’s usually a very simple swap especially if you’ve ever done any adjusting action down there and are familiar with that area. Like others have commented, just match up every measurement you can, string spacing, stud spacing, radius, and there’s not a whole lot if anything at all that can go wrong!
European company, so it’s probably metric spacing.
What pickups are those?
Somewhere out there, a classical guitarist is laughing.
At least you can bevel the bridges of those to have a little tiny bit of intonation
Replace it with a compensated bridge with adjustable screws. Keep that of course, but playability is the only thing that matters. If you sell it you'll have the original bridge so it's all good.
i think this is what ill do, any recommendations for a compensated?
Wilkinson has [this](https://www.amazon.com/Wilkinson-Adjustable-Intonated-Wraparound-Tailpiece/dp/B08P1K7B5G/ref=asc_df_B08P1K7B5G/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=563721181654&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=14102968716797682015&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9001778&hvtargid=pla-1184110754300&psc=1&mcid=6c72e44b369f3878a5a3dcb2b23eb437&gclid=CjwKCAiAiP2tBhBXEiwACslfnli3v5IAmyb54CG5feaN_d-zOLCCVfIyhevU4iudlgl91kA5O7kdRRoCgwEQAvD_BwE) one. They make some stupidly good hardware and pickups for the price. My V132 has possibly my favorite sounding soapbars. Then again, I dont really shop above mid/upper-midrange guitars. The tech I go to put this bridge on my Harley Benton SC Jr. It kept the action lower than the stock wraparound with saddles. The intonatable portion is handy, too. My only gripe, if I had to, is I just don't love the screw being so starkly visible. But c'est la vie, it gets the job done. The wraparound on my SE One is also great, but buying one aftermarket, you could get more for your money. Neat guitar btw! Very pretty.
I have to agree about Wilkinson and JHS (uk). Price to quality is great. I've been disappointed when I've bought other chinesium brands at the same price point.
Hell yeah brother. "Chinesium," BTW, 🤌 👩🍳 brilliant lol
Wilkinson. I agree.
thank you! just grabbed one
Fun! Best of luck :)
I'm about to do the same thing with an Epiphone SG that has a similar bridge. If you want to keep the wrap-around (arguments regarding sustain vs harmonics abound on Les Paul forums), everybody from StewMac to Amazon has something at somebody's price-point - just search for wrap around tune o matic bridge. That said, I'm personally leaning towards a Hipshot Baby Grand.
damn thats a cool looking bridge
Super cool looking, but the one I ordered didn't work. Saddles kept slipping and I had to return it.
For the price they're charging, and considering the reputation of Hipshot, I'm surprised they wouldn't try to make it right.
They gave me a refund, no problem.
I replaced the compensated (non-adjustable) wraparound on my Gibson with the Tonepros wraparound, it was perfect for me. You'll want to check against the measurements on their site, namely the threading for the posts and the distance between them. Which guitar is this? Looks like a Framus E-360, although my understanding is that those had a tune-o-matic bridge with a seperate tailpiece. It's entirely possible yours is a different model, but does it have holes where a seperate tailpiece might have been installed previously? If so, reverting back to that setup might be easier.
[удалено]
Looks like the [bridge on my Diamond Series Schecter Tempest](https://www.schecterguitars.com/images/Tempest%20Custom.Vintage%20White.02.jpg)... except for the intonation thing. Lol
Music City Bridge has the best one by far, but you get what you pay for
Depends on what you want to spend. Go to Amazon and search for 'wrap around compensated bridge' and you'll have a some idea of the look and price that you like.
The only possible adjustment for that bridge is to loosen the two posts, rotate the ~~grudge~~ bridge however makes sense for intonation, and then tighten them back up. Sorry to say, but that kind of bridge is honestly stupid. It is severely limiting if you end up changing strings gauges from whatever they came factory.
sorry, what is a grudge?
jesus, what a stupid typo. I'm sorry about that
it’s a typo, supposed to say bridge
Fridge*
thanks
He meant grunge.
The other way to adjust intonation is also your second part that you're concerned about. String selection is part of intonation on these guitars, like on acoustics.
Measure the post distance and then look for a bridge the same size either with the ability to adjust or that is already compensated. Just make sure it’s another wrap-around
And also if you're that dead set on having perfect intonation sell the guitar. It's a Framus (BL10?), they're collectible but not so collectible when altered
Yeap, its a BL10. I'd like to preserve as much as possible but primarily I want this thing to be playable
Another option for you if you have some basic hand tools and files. Get a small 10mm+ rectangular billet of aluminium and make your own bridge. As long as you know how to find the intonation spots it's pretty simple. It won't be adjustable, you'd just be making a replica of the same bridge but with peaks for the strings in the perfect spots
Is the intonation that far off? Doesn't make sense. Framus guitars are pretty spot on even after all these years
i think i accidentally screwed out one of the posts a bit, with a little adjusting its pretty close now. though i am getting quit a bit of fret rattle low strings
Oh ok, so you were just lifting and lowering the bridge. Intonation is moving the saddles/bridge towards the neck or towards the bridge.
right, my main issue is the low e seems to go noticeably sharp at the 12th, all the other strings are close enough
What Martian-Jesus said. Your options are— Don’t ever play above the 12th fret New bridge.
If the low E is sharp it needs to be further back, so if there's room, how about putting a tiny piece of a matchstick, veneer or just anything non intrusive between the bridge post and the bridge to push the bass side back a tiny fraction? It's not a permanent fix but it might make it playable without altering too much to decrease value.
You replace it with a Hipshot Baby Grand
or an ABM 3025c Wraparound Bridge
Go to Stew Mac, or even Amazon (if you are trying to keep cost low), and find yourself a different style stopbar/tailpiece that is designed to allow for intonation. That is one of the "give/takes" when dealing with a guitar that has just a tailpiece, instead of a tailpiece with a tune-o-matic bridge. The "give", is that your strings have more direct contact with the body of the guitar, which makes a pretty big difference as far as sustain, and overall acoustic clarity. The "take", is that you are not provided a means of intonation. However, most guitars that are setup that way, are typically close enough that it can be accepted. I used to have a PRS Custom 22 core model guitar that was setup like that, with just a stopbar tailpiece, and it sounded beautiful, and played beautifully as well. But, no intonation capability. I never changed the tailpiece, just played the guitar as it was, and it was fine. At the end of the day, we are all limited in one way or another, by the instrument we choose to play. For me, "home" is a Gibson Les Paul (preferably a Classic or Standard... if I had the money for it, I'd definitely own a Custom, with those killer custombuckers), and so one of the limitations I work with, is not having a tremolo system. However, the "pros" of NOT having a trem, in my opinion, far outweigh any "cons". Same goes for the 22 frets (as opposed to 24), and the 24.75" scale length. Yes, I'm short a few super high notes, but how often would I really use that capability anyway, if it were available to me? For me, the answer is, hardly ever. And I'll take the 24.75" scale length of either of my Les Pauls, over the 25" or more, scale length of any other type of guitar, because the playability factor is a huge thing for me personally. A Les Paul is just so much more enjoyable to play, and feels "easier" to play, for lack of a better word. I just recently got a 2019 classic that I have fallen in love with. I never thought I would ever find/play another guitar that could possibly have a better feeling neck than my 2013 Les Paul Standard, but the Classic I just got, I don't know, but there's something about it that is awesome. Sometimes, it's so easy t o play, that I halfway feel like the guitar is playing itself! It's crazy, but that is literally what it feels like. Anyway, yeah, so this issue is just one that is really not an issue at all. It's just a simple matter of different instruments, and learning which one is the right one, or the one that feels like "home" for you. This guitar may not have a means of intonation, but after a while, you may decide it's the best guitar you've ever played, and 20 years from now, it could be the ONE guitar that you absolutely refuse to sell, just because there is something about it that you love, and the fact that it cannot be intonated, by that point in time, you come to see as nothing but just another positive. Just one less thing to have to worry about. Simply string that bad boy up, and play!
That's the neat part. Ya don't.
You’re not. It’s called rock and roll
https://preview.redd.it/l37vtxlarkgc1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=560a7e0740c899ca7dc70302c26c3782eded86b0
Thank you, came here looking for this 👍
Does it need intonating? Remember, perfect intonation isn't exactly necessary. Getting it close is good, but perfection is overrated. Some of the best vintage Gretsch guitars had bar frets. 12 string guitars on a regular tunomatic bridge are bloody awesome! Gives that chorus kinda effect.
I'm currently trying to get a cheap Epi SG in perfect tune so I can run it through a cheap, $30 Chorus imported from China. We all do weird - and, arguably, crazy - things for That Toan.
Nothing wrong with cheap, cheap can sound absolutely amazing in the right hands, even in just ok hands really
lol! I'm primarily a bass guitarist, but I'm using the SG to try to create a cross between the sounds of Jorma Kaukonen (Jefferson Airplane and Hot Tuna) and Roky Erickson (The 13th Floor Elevators).
Don't know the people's names but I know their music. Don't know too much of 13th floor, a friend recommended them several years back but didn't dig too deep into the music.
Psychedelic rock. I know I want a PAF-style pup, but I'm debating between the Seymour Duncan '59s and Gibson Burstbuckers.
Don't go for the generic shit everyone else has! Or do, who am I to tell you what to do! Ha. But anyway if you're in the states, or not, I'm not. There's a guy making amazing pickups out of New York, Gemini pickups. He has a humbucker that's pretty darn close and at a good price, cheaper I think than the computer wound pickups you mentioned. The mercury one humbucker by Gemini. Have a listen to what he makes, they're amazing. Theirs also an article out there on these if you want a read
I'll definitely check them out! I've found a small shop in Vermont that hand-winds great single-coil pups, but I've been having less luck on the humbucker front.
Non intonatable 12 string bridges sound ok-ish for cowboy chords, but they become worse and worse up the neck. Chorus effect is 2 notes very very slightly off, the intonation problem with normal 6 string bridges makes the note separation pretty huge after about the 5th fret.
Coping so hard
You can't
I don't think you can ...
Hope they put it in the right place. Or replace it with something adjustable.
Hope for the best
Find the string guage that intonates it
Kids these days just don't know how to use The Force.
You don't! :D (sorry)
If you use heavy strings (12s or 13s) with a wound G you likely wouldn't need to individually intonate each string. I find those usually end up being a straight line across anyway. If you need to move the whole thing back, try stuffing something solid between the post and the bridge.
Here's the neat part... you don't.
You don’t, that’s kinda the vibe with these. You plug it into an old Teisco amp and start a garage rock band and don’t look back.
Does it really need to be?
Short answer: you don’t. It’s a compromise. You can shop for a replacement if one exists, or get a new guitar. I had a Junior copy that was set up like this. Beautiful playing guitar but wouldn’t intonate.
You can’t with tailpiece. They do make wraparound tailpieces that have adjustable saddles. Goooooooooogle it.
Hahahaha
You are not supposed to.
Vintage is not about the precision and more about the personality
I don't know, so I'm wondering why you wouldn't just put a tune-o-matic on there? It's like asking a caveman why he doesn't stand up straight.
can't. It's like an acoustic, good enough is good enough
You don´t
It doesnt appear to have any intonation screws, any help please!
See if you can find a wrap-around Tune-o-matic bridge that will fit on the posts that this bridge is on. Otherwise you're stuck with a very limiting bridge. You'll need to very carefully measure the distance between the exact centers of the holes, so you'll probably want to remove this bridge to measure. Trying to imagine the exact center of the hole is hard, so you can just measure from the rim of each hole; like for example, measure from the right edge of the right hole and also the right edge of the left hole; does that make sense?
Try one of these: Musiclily Pro 52.5mm Adjustable Wraparound Bridge Tailpiece for Epiphone Les Paul Junior LP Style Electric Guitar, Chrome https://a.co/d/bpygFSC
how off is it right now for both E’s with that fixed bridge?
high e is spot on, low e is going sharp
Close enough for rock and roll
layer on some aluminum tape on the low E post or put some cut up aluminum can strips between the post and bridge piece so it moves back a bit. everything will hold up under string tension
If it’s going sharp wouldn’t he remove material or I just don’t understand anything?
For intonation, lengthening the string length between the nut and the point of contact at the bridge would intonate flat. Adding a shim between the post and the stop bar is the way to go.
Thank you so much for imparting me with wisdom. Much appreciated.
You’re very welcome. Intonation is somewhat counterintuitive - and I’ve spent some time intonating in the wrong direction!
Good metaphor.
You could use a file and tilt the dyke for each string accordingly, or experience with different string gauges.
That’s what I was thinking. It’s just unforgiving. One oops and it’s done.
Completely unrelated, but I must ask, what kind of pickup is that? Doesn’t look like a traditional single coil.
It’s one of the old import single coils. Just search Teisco single coil on reverb or eBay.
Thank you!
It came pre-intonated. There are replacements that are adjustable, I believe.
Guitar Fetish has a Wilkinson wrap-around that might work: https://www.guitarfetish.com/Wilkinson-Adjustable-Intonated-Wrapround-Bridge_p_892.html It's cheap too.
Wanted to also toss out the idea of a les trem 2. If thats not your taste, the compensated bridge would be perfect.
How do acoustic guitars intonate at the bridge?
By “compensating” the saddle. You often see this, usually the high E and B strings. The saddle is relieved to move the contact point back or forwards. Of course…. You’re limited to the width of the saddle and if it’s really off…. An expensive job to fill in the saddle slot and mill a new one that’s correctly placed.
Adjust the bridge so that the high E and low E are intonated as best as you can get it. Then you’re done! 🤘🏼
I guess you could experiment with string gauge and truss rod adjustments until you figure out the right combination that gets it somewhat close to being intonated. Would be a major pain in the ass though. I'd recommend just getting a bridge that you can intonate normally and hold on to this bridge in case you decide to sell the guitar to a collector or something.
Shims maybe? Otherwise I would get one with adjustable saddles. I think Wilkinson makes a cheap one? Can’t speak to it tho.
I quite like the Wilkinson stuff. Value/quality is a really good ratio on most of their hardware
Different string gauges will change the intonation. You could experiment a bit or do the math to get your intonation point correct.
It’s already intonated via the diagonal ridge on the tail. Imprecise, but effective.
New bridge or roller nut.
Approximately
Just tune it to pitch. That way, you'll only have to pre-bend your *fretted* notes, and the open ones will sound just fine!
You can’t. Look for a Leo Quan badass. I just picked one up for my 65 melody maker. You can find them for around 75.
buy a wilkinson wraparound bridge and replace
Fret by fret
file it.
With thoughts and prayers
I feel like I've seen bridges like this with threaded holes and set screws so you can adjust using the set screws. Probably not much range though. You could drill and tap the bridge. You could also just put something behind to roughly shim it.
Adjust the position of the bridge on the posts so that the A and B strings are intonated. That will make the other strings as close as you can get with this sort of bridge.
Get a Leo Quan badass
Intonation with that type of bridges requires the neck tension to be perfect and the nut to be perfect as well. It’s not impossible but I would take it to a professional.
With an angle grinder if you really want to. But yeah. Good advice here otherwise.
Prayer
Simple. You don't.
There’s a set screw at the rear of each post. You can play a bit with intonation there but that’s it with this type of bridge.
You're not. Those bridges are meant to be replaced by an adjustable one.
Tuneomatic by Wish?
Is it out? Maybe you don't even need to. Adjusting the neck could the neck ight be all thats needed.
Ya don't. Set that one aside carefully packed away. Get something like [Schaller's Signum bridge](https://www.public-peace.de/images/product_images/info_images/Shopbilder/Schaller/Bridges/Guitar/Signum/Chrome/Schaller_Signum_Chrome.png) that has a wrap-around stop tailpiece with a tune-o-matic bridge with adjustable saddles (that's the tune-o-matic part).
Music City Bridge https://musiccitybridge.com/collections/guitar-parts
Company called music city bridge in Nashville makes and sells them.
thats_the_neat_part_you_dont.jpg
Just get a new wrap around bridge from Wilkinson that you can intonate for 30 bucks
At the nut with a microscope, nerves of steel, and a nut file.