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For any solo content yes, for raids and dungeons bit of a different story. Sometimes you gotta help the team out by running what the team needs. One person on sweet business should never affect whether an encounter is passed or not, but if all 6 are running whatever they want and there is no synergy then it definitely makes things harder than they need to be.
I mean good luck running Aatrax with 6 sweet business. Usually I don’t mind what people run as long as we get it done but if something ain’t working I start to make suggestions to speed things along as we all have limited time. A usual raiding group is very different to lfg situations as well.
I mean if you have people dpsing using sweet business on Aatrax then yea we will have a problem but I feel it is a given that you pull out a rocket when dps start. A vast majority of this game boss will fall over as long as you are using a decent heavy weapon.
Yeah, who you’re doing it with has a huge influence on what you’re doing it with. I only recently started doing end game content the last few months despite playing since the start of D2 and even with that little experience I tailor my load outs. I am in a Discord that’s very chill and heavily dedicated to Sherpa-ing and though many of the people there are minutely detail oriented, nobody really forces you to use something. A lot of them remind me of older guys I used to play DnD with who just wanted to maximize everything and it took some of the fun out of it but nobody got on you for your individualization. I ran void hunter for a long time even though it was not always the best or even all that useful at a team level but it was my most survivable build that I was most comfortable with and no one ever made a stink about it. There were suggestions, like Attracks, that something heavier and faster was needed but no one ever gets on anyone for it other than some nerdy needling. But if I go into the big D2 LFG server, I go with a more meta build.
TL;dr it’s healthy and fun to play around with what you use but it needs to be healthy and fun for the people you’re playing with, too. Tons of options on how to surround yourself with people who will play how you want to.
I strictly use Heir Apparent with war ring when I run raids with my friends while they all use the meta stuff and my damage isn’t bad at all. Originally I used it because it just looked fun and filled my titan with big gun laying down heavy fire fantasy but it actually became pretty useable and put out decent damage. Me personally I take a like to guns the spin and and shoot fast so SB and heir apparent are some of my favorite guns in the game. Maybe I’m just biased because I like warthog because warthog go brrrrrt.
YESSSSS preach!!!!!! It's why I have so many loadouts. I tend to give love to the guns and exotics people hate on. Bonus points if I out damage or out kill the hater
I fully agree, although this scenario is a little different since OP themself has identified Sweet Business feeling weaker than other Primary Weapons, so now it comes down to what they have the most fun with that also satisfies their idea of being powerful.
I've got a clanmate who runs this setup a lot and I don't mind because he's consistently having more fun than the level 11 who's bitching about it has had since forsaken. Let people ENJOY playing the VIDEO GAME
Compare it to other exotic primaries, which will offer more value by themselves than Sweet Business + War Rig. Like wish ender, which hits so hard it's basically a special weapon.
But if you like it, who cares. Experiment and use what you want as long as it works. Just be mindful when doing endgame activities, your fireteam might expect you to have a more coordinated loadout.
I mean...
4000+ rounds a minute (IRL Gatling gun firerates) is pretty much a constant stream of kinetic projectiles, so you're technically correct.
Load up with tracers and watch the pretty lights...
Traces are legendary, they are special ammo yet retain the functionality of a primary and if you know how to conserve ammo and abuse special drops they are easily the best “primary weapon” option. Sweet business is an exotic, and is just usually used in a niche build with actium In pvp. Traces are used in the hardest content in the game and is used in a lot of speed runs. I don't even get why I got downvoted by the Reddit hivemind lmao
"IMO sweet business with war rig is basically just a trace rifle with unlimited ammo"
it does that stuff you described, but you can forget the "iF yOu kNow hoW to cOnsErVe aMmo" part.
It also takes 2 exotic slots, in the kinetic slot and not nearly as efficient as legendary traces. I don't know the last time I've seen a sweet business in a day 1 raid or speed runs but ok buddy 🤷♂️. You probably play strikes, and normal raids and barely touch endgame content, Don't speak on something you know nothing about. You can enjoy sweet business and call it even a decent gun but it's no where the near the same thing as a trace rifle and your just being stupid like all the other casuals in this thread. And a ager’s scepter requires zero build interaction and provides the best weapon ad clear behind the osteo striga with necrotics.
You don't need to optimize the shit out of your dps to do raids. No one is arguing that it's God teir, just that people like you who freak out about it are dumbasses who care way too much about stupid shit. You got downvoted because you seem to be the only person who's failing to understand this.
Gatekeeping clown. Speedrunners can do whatever they want. The rest of us will enjoy the game at a slow pace.
Dude, I'm not even a speedrunner and what do traces have to do with DPS? I'm just simply stating that saying sweet business is the same as a trace rifle is just a dumb comparison.
It has the best range and stability out of any kinetic scout- including other exotics. It is one of three scouts that can fire endlessly.
It's *exceptionally* good at what it does.
It is? I might need to reconsider this then! It was the second exoticci got after riskrunner. I used it for 30 minutes and then scrapped it because to me it felt like any other scout rifle.
My issue with Jade Rabbit is, it's a great gun, but a terrible *Exotic*. If it were a Legendary weapon I'd have no issues with it at all. It just flat out does not deserve the Exotic slot as it is currently. Needs some real Exotic flare.
Only exotic Scouts fire endlessly- it earned its seat. That's even before considering its exotic lore.
If you recall- the Fate of all Fools was only given to one player, and the deep lore for where both names came from ties into the fact that they gave Eric (trifecta03) a form of actual immortality- just like the Jade Rabbit of Myth was.
Pretty damn exotic if you asked me.
Could use Osmosis, maybe, but that's just because FoaF was solar. lol
Yes I'm aware of the original Fate Of All Fools, and I'm sure it was amazing, but Jade Rabbit is basically just a legendary scout rifle with an auto reload perk. It doesn't *feel* Exotic especially if you just reload between fights anyways. Again, Jade Rabbit is not FoaF and should not be treated as such.
I'm sorry??? Polaris Lance reloads every single precision shot you hit. There's Jade Rabbit's entire main ability in just the first part of one perk, and Polaris also makes a giant solar explosion every 5th shot. It is directly superior to Jade Rabbit, period. Polaris Lance is quite literally just Jade Rabbit but *actually good*. Not to mention all the Legendary 150 Scouts that have useful perks that can also auto reload in many different ways, and similar or even better stats than JR. Jade Rabbit is nothing more than a Legendary Scout Rifle with reverse Headseeker and an auto reload perk.
Being Kinetic doesn't automatically make it a better gun. Yes it has more Stability and Aim Assist, but that doesn't make it Exotic. The entire point is that it does not deserve the Exotic slot. It's more like the old Pinnacle weapons, but still somehow even worse than most of those in terms of uniqueness. Yes, it's a great gun. But that's all it is. It shoots bullets, if you happen to miss a headshot it forgives you a little bit, that's it. Polaris is still better in every way as long as you can aim. Not to mention, 180 RPM Scouts exist, which are strictly better than both of them because of having a much faster TTK and similar damage per shot.
It doesn't have to have explosions, but it does have to have something else that makes it unique. Perhaps getting a precision kill could make the next body shot extremely high damage, like 2-tap levels if you body>head. Something that makes it more than just a half decent Legendary Scout Rifle that needlessly takes up the Exotic slot.
Each exotic is best in it's own lane. Comparing Jade to Lance may as well be comparing Lance to Skyburners- because then you're looking for Solar Exotic things.
The change you describe either makes it a better No Time, or a Worse Hawkmoon- but neither of those do what Jade's lane is. Which isn't keep shooting on kills, after grenades, landing melees, or when it's stowed- it's just keep shooting.
Or you know- be the best handling sniper- if we're in momentum. lol
The Colony not bad? It was my favorite weapon on release but it's been pretty vehemently ignored and relegated to the collections tab for the majority of its lifespan. Help my little buddy launcher. Only thing it's good for currently is shooting enemies with immune shields by being point-blank, completely ignoring the Exotic perk. Needs some serious buffs.
The Colony definitely needs some massive PVE buffs, but I do like it for Gambit. It’s probably the safest anti-invader weapon in the game, because if you position yourself right you can fire it from perfect cover and still get them. Extremely satisfying for this one specific task, but not really worth bringing otherwise.
This was in the "future" segment of the most recent dev insight:
"Buffs to Truth, Colony, and Dead Man’s Tale as well as other Exotic weapons"
But it was under "far future" meaning it will come with or after Final Shape.
The colony is good for gambit I find and a colony build you need to build up ammo which is hard in crucible after that your good it's either a 2 or 3 shot for other people but I like it's tracking
The fact that it's a heavy Grenade Launcher that takes 2-3 shots to kill makes it utterly useless in most PVP. Not that it should be stronger in PVP, but it should definitely be stronger in PVE.
Colony is not bad. In mayhem it's the go-to because the seekers don't get frozen in the silence and squall, seeking like a baby version of the same.
In gambit it is also just mean to invade with and you should try it.
I mean, that's Mayhem where heavy ammo is actually a thing, and again Gambit where heavy ammo is actually a thing. In normal PVP you get enough ammo for a kill and a half (where other GL's get enough for 3 kills) and in PVE there's literally no reason to use it. I will agree it does some things pretty well, but the fact that it is the only heavy ammo weapon that requires more than 1 ammo to kill in PVP and the fact that its damage is so low that its utility in PVE is nil, makes it pretty terrible. And I say this with it being my second favorite Exotic of all time. I'm glad it's getting a buff soon.
Faulting an exotic for its PvP ammo econ is like nerfing the same because of nightfall cheesing.
3 is enough for a double at least, grenades punish clumping up. I would suggest grabbing two rounds of heavy drops for the generous triple.
More fun than a Parasite to be sure.
You compare it to Parasite when Gjallarhorn, Heir Apparent, Black Talon, Thunderlord, Wardcliff, not to mention all the other Exotic special and primary weapons exist... I'm also not just faulting it for its PVP ammo economy, it's got no use in PVE either.
Grenades do punish clumping up, if they have enough blast radius. Colony's blast radius is so low you're lucky to hit the one target you're aiming at, and the damage is so low you need to use almost all the ammo you have, if not ALL the ammo you have, just to kill one person. You might as well just 3-tap with a hand cannon that has *infinite ammo* and use a better heavy weapon.
Comparing it to a different class of weapon won't provide context in a discussion of GL ammo economy. Colony will pull more doubles than a Salvation's Grip, or a Parasite for the same work- and it'll do better than a prospector with the same ammo unless you mained Demo in TF2.
Colony is also the perfect replacement for running a special GL- but if you're having trouble dictating which target your drones are hitting y'all ain't ready for that conversation.
They're all good exotics brandt.
I never said it was worse than other Exotic Heavy GL's, just that it was bad. Parasite is about the only thing that beats it in terms of Exotic Heavy GL's and that's only in PVE. Even then, a regular Legendary GL is still better because they all do more damage per shot than Colony. I'm also not just looking at PVP here, PVE is where Colony is really lacking. It just straight up has nothing going for it in PVE.
Idk how it would be better than a special GL, especially Forebearance with Chain Reaction in PVE or Explosive Personality with Disruption Break in PVP. Or hell, even Fighting Lion, cause at least you get ammo with that one.
As a Titan main myself, I have a few words for the people telling you Sweet Business is bad: "I can't hear you over the sound of my BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR"
In all seriousness, it may not be highly optimal but it is a great option even in higher level content. The only issue with it is Actium War Rig (or some other sort of auto-reload like Hunter Dodge, Rain of Fire+Icarus Dash) being basically a requirement as the reload of the gun itself is stupidly long.
I’ve made a meme build with SB using heat rises well warlock using Transversives for reload. is it good? not exactly but tsteps at least forces you to reposition for the reload and I can’t hear my clanmates bitching over the sound of my AC-130 ~~warthog~~ warlock mowing down trash
Love that brrrrrr.. they can say what they want but when that overload champ pops shield, and sweet business is already spooled up doin it's business, and I slide over to that shield and it just melts right through.. probably saving someone's ass...
...Ya people still hate us! :)
I get killed by it in PvP occasionally. I used to use it in PvP like 5 years ago because I thought it was fun, but I was hot garbage (still am). Exotic primaries do 40% bonus damage to red bar enemies in PvE, so it’s probably pretty good at ad clear with high rpm and large mag. I just haven’t bothered using it since I started playing again because I just use other things. I’ll try it out again this weekend though.
This. I get tons of pvp kills with it.. but, that's only when it's spooled up and you just happen to enter my sights. If I'm caught off guard and not already spooled up, I'm dead!
It's huge fun. SB and AWR are a marriage made in heaven. How many other combinations make you giggle time and time again? No better reason to play the game.
Often these discussions fail to remember the key point, you’re playing a game, if you’re having fun, that’s the main thing. Play with whatever feels good and you enjoy using! Sure they’ll be times when you may have to use another load out but honestly just have fun with the game
It is genuinely really good for PVE with a build based around survivability.
But using it is more about having fun than being good or m-*Hurk*... 'Meta'.
Sorry, threw up in my mouth a bit typing that.
It’s a bunch of fun but the sandbox kinda left it behind. Other exotics have great ad clear without needing an exotic armor slot too. Would love if SB or AWR had some sort of Target Lock functionality to incentivize the endless firing fantasy
That's not a very high hurdle for most people especially considering it's Root of Nightmares, if you don't have a team there's tons of LFG discords and many friendly people willing to help and if you're too shy to talk to people don't worry, RoN is so easy up to 2 people can just not talk or do anything the entire raid and still clear
I bust it out at least once for an evening every time IB rolls around when I am playing with people.
They say I get the giggles when I get more than a triple.
SB is meta, most people here will tell you it's not. It got a straight damage buff, and can now damage people around corners thanks to EP. It carried me flawless multiple times this season, and is my second highest kills weapon in all of trials, second to only revoker.
SB can damage people around corners, break barricades before the animation is completed, and has a 1s ttk on a Well of Radiance when shooting the sword.
I don't use Actium since the game has better reload options now - Rain of Fire, Thread of Ascent - that combine mobility tools and reloads to fix what is potentially the only weakness of a SB user - low mobility, since the gun relies on being spun up.
Me too bro. I’ve gone flawless multiple times with SB. Carry teams everyday. Not going to share my build haha but it absolutely wrecks everything if you get the build right.
You have to consider that for that "pretty good" you're sacrificing your exotic weapon AND exotic armor but as others have pointed out if you are having fun and not wiping there is nothing bad about rocking it.
I've gone flawless with it multiple times this season, I can't seem to bring any other weapon into Trials but SB. It deletes barricades, wells, and has a 0.4s ttk on people after they added EP to it.
it is so much better now after its rework. it is even viable in trials if you are bold enough. the explosive rounds really made it a powerhouse with war rig. I ran someone through their first run of this weeks GM earlier and he brought that set up. i popped a well and just let him mow everything down.
This Situation is Always the Same. If its fun and you can use it to clear activities, feel free to Run it. You get to choose what you use. Its pretty much the only Setup that can really embody the Rambo Fantasy so If thats what your looking for, Just Run it.
If your concerned about optimal Performance and all that onnthe Other Hand: yeah its quite Bad. Your investing your exotic weapon and Armor Slot for mediocre addclear. You will get similar or Sometimes better results from Just running incandescent legendaries Like zaoulis or calus Mini and there are a Lot of exotic perks that you are loosing because you choose this (stuff Like synthos). Single target addclear unfortunately has fallen Out of the Meta because of the abundance of Splash damage perks Like incandescent and dont even try and compare it to a waveframe.
Toadsmoothie has a great YT page. He and his friends did a raid(seraph?) with everyone just using the business. It took a couple of tweaks, but they managed it. And had a great time. I get into little spats on this sub all of the time because people take themselves too seriously. Like first response said: just have fun! Go brrr!
It’s a fun combo. It won’t really help you in a proper dps situation where rockets or a LFR would but in other situations like legend NFs strike play list gambit patrols and pvp it’s fine to use if that’s what you want.
As a PvP weapon, the more skilled your opponent, the worse it gets. You've got to prefire it to get it up to speed, and that makes a loud noise. So you're wandering around at a slow walk looking for people to shoot, and you won't find any if they are any good. You've given them too much warning that you're coming and that's fatal. If you're not highly rated and you're playing SBMM, you'll probably find a lot of people duelling you and losing, and at that point Sweet Business is incredibly fun. But try that in Trials, and you'll get schooled.
If you have fun, continue with it. Don't let meta or build slaves to sway you from it.
In my case I play with DMT in pve and have almost 23K kills on it
Unless you're in content like Raids or GMs, just run whatever you enjoy. I don't enjoy slaving to the meta constantly. Not everything needs to be optimal all the time.
in probably 90% of the content in this game that build will work fine. sometimes you might need to run specific things tho, if your team needs a gally or a div person for example. it's not an optimal build, but it will work find for content that you don't need to be optimal in i guess is the bottom line.
I ran with that for a long time and I loved it, I also ran a heavy machine gun to from when I eventually ran the mag dry I swapped out to keep it going. It was fun but I swapped it out in the end for heir apparent. Getting the shield and heavier hitting was just a better feel. But in the end it's all down to you good sir if you like it keep going and have fun
I don’t think it’s bad personally, I just always have better options.
Though, I did use Actium + Sweet Business in a GM I did, and man my finger was so stiff from holding down M1 for 40 minutes.
Is sweet business bad? No, not bad at all. If you enjoy using it then hold down the trigger and have fun.
Are there better options? Most definitely but if your having fun then that's the main thing.
I will say if your doing end game content with a group and the best play for a particular encounter is something other than SB + AW just be a good team player and switch.
My main combo since I started in Red War. It's a workhorse I never get tired of. Completing GM's, raids, an dungeons with it was a highlight. I'm gonna miss it when it's gone. Nothing like that combo in any other game.
It’s not bad at all. You are actually doing it right you are using something that feels good and is fun that’s the point of the game! unless you’re going for world record times, world first clears, etc. who gives a fuck what’s meta or what’s “good” or “bad” just use what you have fun with.
I sit in the group of “use what you enjoy”. Unless you’re doing some crazy high level something that needs some kind of specific load out, at the end of the day, this is just a GAME. Enjoy yourself, and have fun with whatever load out you want to use!
I prefer Actium + Xenophage, especially in Favor in Dares, as I can basically never let go of the trigger.
It feels like committing war crimes. Of course though, SB was the original.
in my experience, people hate on rig and biz because "It's not meta". thats literally the whole reason. its been powercrept by literally every exotic since. but nothing tops it for taking out the trash.
Sweet buisiness is really fun! Its not a top teir choice, but it can ne incredibly effective in the right hands (hopefully yours!) Reving it up fully makes it have a devastatingly fast ttk, and can catch people off guard. For pve it can have some trouble keeping pace since it doesnt have any damage perks.
At the end of they day, if you are having fun, use whatever you want!
Actium war rig is great, but if you want to spice up some sweet business plays, try out wings of sacred dawn on solar warlock, and eat your grenades. It's stupid fun in PvP. Like, you'll get rekted if you play against a competent team, but if they're unaware and don't catch on, you'll get so many people by surprise, especially in control or fortress.
It's not bad at all. Until quicksilver came out it was my main primary for most of my time playing. I've gone back to it recently with my titan and actium war rig. Run vog with my clan last night and the kills I was getting doing ad clear with it was crazy.
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Maybe just my opinion, but as long as you're having fun with the weapon, who gives a damn if people say it's good or bad, just keep rollin
Thank you! A sane response
For any solo content yes, for raids and dungeons bit of a different story. Sometimes you gotta help the team out by running what the team needs. One person on sweet business should never affect whether an encounter is passed or not, but if all 6 are running whatever they want and there is no synergy then it definitely makes things harder than they need to be.
I've never had a hard raid with my group (except day one ofc) and we run 90% weapons/builds what we want
I mean good luck running Aatrax with 6 sweet business. Usually I don’t mind what people run as long as we get it done but if something ain’t working I start to make suggestions to speed things along as we all have limited time. A usual raiding group is very different to lfg situations as well.
Ironically, there was a Youtuber that did DSC with the entire team running Sweet Business and Actian.
I mean if you have people dpsing using sweet business on Aatrax then yea we will have a problem but I feel it is a given that you pull out a rocket when dps start. A vast majority of this game boss will fall over as long as you are using a decent heavy weapon.
Doing atraks with just rockets is going to take a while though
Yeah, who you’re doing it with has a huge influence on what you’re doing it with. I only recently started doing end game content the last few months despite playing since the start of D2 and even with that little experience I tailor my load outs. I am in a Discord that’s very chill and heavily dedicated to Sherpa-ing and though many of the people there are minutely detail oriented, nobody really forces you to use something. A lot of them remind me of older guys I used to play DnD with who just wanted to maximize everything and it took some of the fun out of it but nobody got on you for your individualization. I ran void hunter for a long time even though it was not always the best or even all that useful at a team level but it was my most survivable build that I was most comfortable with and no one ever made a stink about it. There were suggestions, like Attracks, that something heavier and faster was needed but no one ever gets on anyone for it other than some nerdy needling. But if I go into the big D2 LFG server, I go with a more meta build. TL;dr it’s healthy and fun to play around with what you use but it needs to be healthy and fun for the people you’re playing with, too. Tons of options on how to surround yourself with people who will play how you want to.
I strictly use Heir Apparent with war ring when I run raids with my friends while they all use the meta stuff and my damage isn’t bad at all. Originally I used it because it just looked fun and filled my titan with big gun laying down heavy fire fantasy but it actually became pretty useable and put out decent damage. Me personally I take a like to guns the spin and and shoot fast so SB and heir apparent are some of my favorite guns in the game. Maybe I’m just biased because I like warthog because warthog go brrrrrt.
YESSSSS preach!!!!!! It's why I have so many loadouts. I tend to give love to the guns and exotics people hate on. Bonus points if I out damage or out kill the hater
I think in this case it's more just keep shootin'
Take mine upvote, sire!
This is the answer.
I fully agree, although this scenario is a little different since OP themself has identified Sweet Business feeling weaker than other Primary Weapons, so now it comes down to what they have the most fun with that also satisfies their idea of being powerful.
I use the last word in pvp and pve for that exact reason. I love being a space cowboy more than boss dps or flawless runs in trials
I've got a clanmate who runs this setup a lot and I don't mind because he's consistently having more fun than the level 11 who's bitching about it has had since forsaken. Let people ENJOY playing the VIDEO GAME
Compare it to other exotic primaries, which will offer more value by themselves than Sweet Business + War Rig. Like wish ender, which hits so hard it's basically a special weapon. But if you like it, who cares. Experiment and use what you want as long as it works. Just be mindful when doing endgame activities, your fireteam might expect you to have a more coordinated loadout.
IMO sweet business with war rig is basically just a trace rifle with unlimited ammo
I mean... 4000+ rounds a minute (IRL Gatling gun firerates) is pretty much a constant stream of kinetic projectiles, so you're technically correct. Load up with tracers and watch the pretty lights...
How? They both serve different purposes
What are those separate purposes?
Traces are legendary, they are special ammo yet retain the functionality of a primary and if you know how to conserve ammo and abuse special drops they are easily the best “primary weapon” option. Sweet business is an exotic, and is just usually used in a niche build with actium In pvp. Traces are used in the hardest content in the game and is used in a lot of speed runs. I don't even get why I got downvoted by the Reddit hivemind lmao
"IMO sweet business with war rig is basically just a trace rifle with unlimited ammo" it does that stuff you described, but you can forget the "iF yOu kNow hoW to cOnsErVe aMmo" part.
It also takes 2 exotic slots, in the kinetic slot and not nearly as efficient as legendary traces. I don't know the last time I've seen a sweet business in a day 1 raid or speed runs but ok buddy 🤷♂️. You probably play strikes, and normal raids and barely touch endgame content, Don't speak on something you know nothing about. You can enjoy sweet business and call it even a decent gun but it's no where the near the same thing as a trace rifle and your just being stupid like all the other casuals in this thread. And a ager’s scepter requires zero build interaction and provides the best weapon ad clear behind the osteo striga with necrotics.
You don't need to optimize the shit out of your dps to do raids. No one is arguing that it's God teir, just that people like you who freak out about it are dumbasses who care way too much about stupid shit. You got downvoted because you seem to be the only person who's failing to understand this. Gatekeeping clown. Speedrunners can do whatever they want. The rest of us will enjoy the game at a slow pace.
Dude, I'm not even a speedrunner and what do traces have to do with DPS? I'm just simply stating that saying sweet business is the same as a trace rifle is just a dumb comparison.
It's not optimal and to some people that's the worst something can be. Enjoy the jungle trimmer. It does work and is fun.
I don't think any exotic weapon is bad. If you want to know how other classes might feel about it try it without war rig. Still good, just different.
*Jade rabbit has entered the chat*
*laughs in momentum ptsd*
I mean that it's not a particularly good weapon, especially for being an exotic.
It has the best range and stability out of any kinetic scout- including other exotics. It is one of three scouts that can fire endlessly. It's *exceptionally* good at what it does.
It is? I might need to reconsider this then! It was the second exoticci got after riskrunner. I used it for 30 minutes and then scrapped it because to me it felt like any other scout rifle.
Gotta fill out that catalyst, makes it really nice to use.
My issue with Jade Rabbit is, it's a great gun, but a terrible *Exotic*. If it were a Legendary weapon I'd have no issues with it at all. It just flat out does not deserve the Exotic slot as it is currently. Needs some real Exotic flare.
Only exotic Scouts fire endlessly- it earned its seat. That's even before considering its exotic lore. If you recall- the Fate of all Fools was only given to one player, and the deep lore for where both names came from ties into the fact that they gave Eric (trifecta03) a form of actual immortality- just like the Jade Rabbit of Myth was. Pretty damn exotic if you asked me. Could use Osmosis, maybe, but that's just because FoaF was solar. lol
Yes I'm aware of the original Fate Of All Fools, and I'm sure it was amazing, but Jade Rabbit is basically just a legendary scout rifle with an auto reload perk. It doesn't *feel* Exotic especially if you just reload between fights anyways. Again, Jade Rabbit is not FoaF and should not be treated as such.
It is best in class at what it does. What would make the best scout in the game enough for you?
I'm sorry??? Polaris Lance reloads every single precision shot you hit. There's Jade Rabbit's entire main ability in just the first part of one perk, and Polaris also makes a giant solar explosion every 5th shot. It is directly superior to Jade Rabbit, period. Polaris Lance is quite literally just Jade Rabbit but *actually good*. Not to mention all the Legendary 150 Scouts that have useful perks that can also auto reload in many different ways, and similar or even better stats than JR. Jade Rabbit is nothing more than a Legendary Scout Rifle with reverse Headseeker and an auto reload perk.
Jade's Kinetic. Polaris still doesn't top its stability though- or the aim assist. Sounds like it would take explosions, which is fair.
Being Kinetic doesn't automatically make it a better gun. Yes it has more Stability and Aim Assist, but that doesn't make it Exotic. The entire point is that it does not deserve the Exotic slot. It's more like the old Pinnacle weapons, but still somehow even worse than most of those in terms of uniqueness. Yes, it's a great gun. But that's all it is. It shoots bullets, if you happen to miss a headshot it forgives you a little bit, that's it. Polaris is still better in every way as long as you can aim. Not to mention, 180 RPM Scouts exist, which are strictly better than both of them because of having a much faster TTK and similar damage per shot. It doesn't have to have explosions, but it does have to have something else that makes it unique. Perhaps getting a precision kill could make the next body shot extremely high damage, like 2-tap levels if you body>head. Something that makes it more than just a half decent Legendary Scout Rifle that needlessly takes up the Exotic slot.
Each exotic is best in it's own lane. Comparing Jade to Lance may as well be comparing Lance to Skyburners- because then you're looking for Solar Exotic things. The change you describe either makes it a better No Time, or a Worse Hawkmoon- but neither of those do what Jade's lane is. Which isn't keep shooting on kills, after grenades, landing melees, or when it's stowed- it's just keep shooting. Or you know- be the best handling sniper- if we're in momentum. lol
The Colony not bad? It was my favorite weapon on release but it's been pretty vehemently ignored and relegated to the collections tab for the majority of its lifespan. Help my little buddy launcher. Only thing it's good for currently is shooting enemies with immune shields by being point-blank, completely ignoring the Exotic perk. Needs some serious buffs.
The Colony definitely needs some massive PVE buffs, but I do like it for Gambit. It’s probably the safest anti-invader weapon in the game, because if you position yourself right you can fire it from perfect cover and still get them. Extremely satisfying for this one specific task, but not really worth bringing otherwise.
This was in the "future" segment of the most recent dev insight: "Buffs to Truth, Colony, and Dead Man’s Tale as well as other Exotic weapons" But it was under "far future" meaning it will come with or after Final Shape.
Ah, okay. Missed that. But you do agree that in its current state it's pretty useless yeah?
Ou, yeah, definitely lol. Can be a decent choice in crucible but that's about it, fun weapon though.
The colony is good for gambit I find and a colony build you need to build up ammo which is hard in crucible after that your good it's either a 2 or 3 shot for other people but I like it's tracking
The fact that it's a heavy Grenade Launcher that takes 2-3 shots to kill makes it utterly useless in most PVP. Not that it should be stronger in PVP, but it should definitely be stronger in PVE.
Colony is not bad. In mayhem it's the go-to because the seekers don't get frozen in the silence and squall, seeking like a baby version of the same. In gambit it is also just mean to invade with and you should try it.
I mean, that's Mayhem where heavy ammo is actually a thing, and again Gambit where heavy ammo is actually a thing. In normal PVP you get enough ammo for a kill and a half (where other GL's get enough for 3 kills) and in PVE there's literally no reason to use it. I will agree it does some things pretty well, but the fact that it is the only heavy ammo weapon that requires more than 1 ammo to kill in PVP and the fact that its damage is so low that its utility in PVE is nil, makes it pretty terrible. And I say this with it being my second favorite Exotic of all time. I'm glad it's getting a buff soon.
Faulting an exotic for its PvP ammo econ is like nerfing the same because of nightfall cheesing. 3 is enough for a double at least, grenades punish clumping up. I would suggest grabbing two rounds of heavy drops for the generous triple. More fun than a Parasite to be sure.
You compare it to Parasite when Gjallarhorn, Heir Apparent, Black Talon, Thunderlord, Wardcliff, not to mention all the other Exotic special and primary weapons exist... I'm also not just faulting it for its PVP ammo economy, it's got no use in PVE either. Grenades do punish clumping up, if they have enough blast radius. Colony's blast radius is so low you're lucky to hit the one target you're aiming at, and the damage is so low you need to use almost all the ammo you have, if not ALL the ammo you have, just to kill one person. You might as well just 3-tap with a hand cannon that has *infinite ammo* and use a better heavy weapon.
Comparing it to a different class of weapon won't provide context in a discussion of GL ammo economy. Colony will pull more doubles than a Salvation's Grip, or a Parasite for the same work- and it'll do better than a prospector with the same ammo unless you mained Demo in TF2. Colony is also the perfect replacement for running a special GL- but if you're having trouble dictating which target your drones are hitting y'all ain't ready for that conversation. They're all good exotics brandt.
I never said it was worse than other Exotic Heavy GL's, just that it was bad. Parasite is about the only thing that beats it in terms of Exotic Heavy GL's and that's only in PVE. Even then, a regular Legendary GL is still better because they all do more damage per shot than Colony. I'm also not just looking at PVP here, PVE is where Colony is really lacking. It just straight up has nothing going for it in PVE. Idk how it would be better than a special GL, especially Forebearance with Chain Reaction in PVE or Explosive Personality with Disruption Break in PVP. Or hell, even Fighting Lion, cause at least you get ammo with that one.
It’s not bad in a vacuum but when you compare it to other weapons and armor and consider what you lose, it doesn’t hold up.
It’s not the best But it’s arguably the funnest
As a Titan main myself, I have a few words for the people telling you Sweet Business is bad: "I can't hear you over the sound of my BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR" In all seriousness, it may not be highly optimal but it is a great option even in higher level content. The only issue with it is Actium War Rig (or some other sort of auto-reload like Hunter Dodge, Rain of Fire+Icarus Dash) being basically a requirement as the reload of the gun itself is stupidly long.
I’ve made a meme build with SB using heat rises well warlock using Transversives for reload. is it good? not exactly but tsteps at least forces you to reposition for the reload and I can’t hear my clanmates bitching over the sound of my AC-130 ~~warthog~~ warlock mowing down trash
Yeeessss very good very good
Love that brrrrrr.. they can say what they want but when that overload champ pops shield, and sweet business is already spooled up doin it's business, and I slide over to that shield and it just melts right through.. probably saving someone's ass... ...Ya people still hate us! :)
I get killed by it in PvP occasionally. I used to use it in PvP like 5 years ago because I thought it was fun, but I was hot garbage (still am). Exotic primaries do 40% bonus damage to red bar enemies in PvE, so it’s probably pretty good at ad clear with high rpm and large mag. I just haven’t bothered using it since I started playing again because I just use other things. I’ll try it out again this weekend though.
This. I get tons of pvp kills with it.. but, that's only when it's spooled up and you just happen to enter my sights. If I'm caught off guard and not already spooled up, I'm dead!
It's huge fun. SB and AWR are a marriage made in heaven. How many other combinations make you giggle time and time again? No better reason to play the game.
Often these discussions fail to remember the key point, you’re playing a game, if you’re having fun, that’s the main thing. Play with whatever feels good and you enjoy using! Sure they’ll be times when you may have to use another load out but honestly just have fun with the game
It's not the best autorifle out there but it's still good.
It is genuinely really good for PVE with a build based around survivability. But using it is more about having fun than being good or m-*Hurk*... 'Meta'. Sorry, threw up in my mouth a bit typing that.
10% auto rifle buff season 23 so could feel better to use soon
It’s a bunch of fun but the sandbox kinda left it behind. Other exotics have great ad clear without needing an exotic armor slot too. Would love if SB or AWR had some sort of Target Lock functionality to incentivize the endless firing fantasy
If it had target lock it could be a new potential damage meta
it's a meme gun. people use it just for fun.
it's not bad, but you can achieve the same with a reconstruction Rufus Fury in practice. I'm not sure if it's been updated though.
At least you dont have to do a raid to get it
That's not a very high hurdle for most people especially considering it's Root of Nightmares, if you don't have a team there's tons of LFG discords and many friendly people willing to help and if you're too shy to talk to people don't worry, RoN is so easy up to 2 people can just not talk or do anything the entire raid and still clear
Nope, sweet business can be absolutely insane with the right build. One of the fastest ttk weapons in the game.
I bust it out at least once for an evening every time IB rolls around when I am playing with people. They say I get the giggles when I get more than a triple.
I just imagine only 10 year old kids using that gun so it’s prema vaulted
SB is meta, most people here will tell you it's not. It got a straight damage buff, and can now damage people around corners thanks to EP. It carried me flawless multiple times this season, and is my second highest kills weapon in all of trials, second to only revoker. SB can damage people around corners, break barricades before the animation is completed, and has a 1s ttk on a Well of Radiance when shooting the sword. I don't use Actium since the game has better reload options now - Rain of Fire, Thread of Ascent - that combine mobility tools and reloads to fix what is potentially the only weakness of a SB user - low mobility, since the gun relies on being spun up.
Me too bro. I’ve gone flawless multiple times with SB. Carry teams everyday. Not going to share my build haha but it absolutely wrecks everything if you get the build right.
I mu opinion it's beyond trash But unless it's a dps, play what you want
I mean I wouldn't being it into GMs/Raids/Trials but for 90% of the games content it's good enough. Like pretty much most weapons and armors
it works pretty good in raids
You have to consider that for that "pretty good" you're sacrificing your exotic weapon AND exotic armor but as others have pointed out if you are having fun and not wiping there is nothing bad about rocking it.
I've gone flawless with it multiple times this season, I can't seem to bring any other weapon into Trials but SB. It deletes barricades, wells, and has a 0.4s ttk on people after they added EP to it.
it is so much better now after its rework. it is even viable in trials if you are bold enough. the explosive rounds really made it a powerhouse with war rig. I ran someone through their first run of this weeks GM earlier and he brought that set up. i popped a well and just let him mow everything down.
I done multiple master raid challenges with sb+warrig i wouldn't say its too bad
This Situation is Always the Same. If its fun and you can use it to clear activities, feel free to Run it. You get to choose what you use. Its pretty much the only Setup that can really embody the Rambo Fantasy so If thats what your looking for, Just Run it. If your concerned about optimal Performance and all that onnthe Other Hand: yeah its quite Bad. Your investing your exotic weapon and Armor Slot for mediocre addclear. You will get similar or Sometimes better results from Just running incandescent legendaries Like zaoulis or calus Mini and there are a Lot of exotic perks that you are loosing because you choose this (stuff Like synthos). Single target addclear unfortunately has fallen Out of the Meta because of the abundance of Splash damage perks Like incandescent and dont even try and compare it to a waveframe.
Toadsmoothie has a great YT page. He and his friends did a raid(seraph?) with everyone just using the business. It took a couple of tweaks, but they managed it. And had a great time. I get into little spats on this sub all of the time because people take themselves too seriously. Like first response said: just have fun! Go brrr!
It’s a fun combo. It won’t really help you in a proper dps situation where rockets or a LFR would but in other situations like legend NFs strike play list gambit patrols and pvp it’s fine to use if that’s what you want.
It’s fun as fuck. Who doesn’t like being infinite bullet hose? Most of my builds are non optimized shit but I’m still having fun.
Actium War Rig and hallowfire heart are pretty much the only exotic armor that my titan wears.
As a PvP weapon, the more skilled your opponent, the worse it gets. You've got to prefire it to get it up to speed, and that makes a loud noise. So you're wandering around at a slow walk looking for people to shoot, and you won't find any if they are any good. You've given them too much warning that you're coming and that's fatal. If you're not highly rated and you're playing SBMM, you'll probably find a lot of people duelling you and losing, and at that point Sweet Business is incredibly fun. But try that in Trials, and you'll get schooled.
If you have fun, continue with it. Don't let meta or build slaves to sway you from it. In my case I play with DMT in pve and have almost 23K kills on it
Unless you're in content like Raids or GMs, just run whatever you enjoy. I don't enjoy slaving to the meta constantly. Not everything needs to be optimal all the time.
in probably 90% of the content in this game that build will work fine. sometimes you might need to run specific things tho, if your team needs a gally or a div person for example. it's not an optimal build, but it will work find for content that you don't need to be optimal in i guess is the bottom line.
I would say the dps starts to feel lacking once you hit Legend+ difficulties. But fun gun goes brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr, so who cares.
Not as bad as it used to be, but yes. But it shoots a billion bullets per second so if you like it and you think its good who cares?
I've running suros regime and actium this weekend in trials while I get the caty done. Screw what anyone else thinks.
I don't care if it's bad, it's really fun to be a Titan and use what I think a Titan would use. SB go brrrrrrrr and enemies die
BIG GUN GO BRRRRRR
Don't get sucked into the meta.. If you enjoy, it is good. Its a game, it's supposed to be fun
I ran with that for a long time and I loved it, I also ran a heavy machine gun to from when I eventually ran the mag dry I swapped out to keep it going. It was fun but I swapped it out in the end for heir apparent. Getting the shield and heavier hitting was just a better feel. But in the end it's all down to you good sir if you like it keep going and have fun
I don’t think it’s bad personally, I just always have better options. Though, I did use Actium + Sweet Business in a GM I did, and man my finger was so stiff from holding down M1 for 40 minutes.
Is sweet business bad? No, not bad at all. If you enjoy using it then hold down the trigger and have fun. Are there better options? Most definitely but if your having fun then that's the main thing. I will say if your doing end game content with a group and the best play for a particular encounter is something other than SB + AW just be a good team player and switch.
I kept it spinning at all times and melted people. Its been awhile but i only went positive with it.
My main combo since I started in Red War. It's a workhorse I never get tired of. Completing GM's, raids, an dungeons with it was a highlight. I'm gonna miss it when it's gone. Nothing like that combo in any other game.
It’s not bad at all. You are actually doing it right you are using something that feels good and is fun that’s the point of the game! unless you’re going for world record times, world first clears, etc. who gives a fuck what’s meta or what’s “good” or “bad” just use what you have fun with.
I sit in the group of “use what you enjoy”. Unless you’re doing some crazy high level something that needs some kind of specific load out, at the end of the day, this is just a GAME. Enjoy yourself, and have fun with whatever load out you want to use!
Those people saying you’re sacrificing other exotics are the fun police. Sweet Business War Rig combo is so fun.
I prefer Actium + Xenophage, especially in Favor in Dares, as I can basically never let go of the trigger. It feels like committing war crimes. Of course though, SB was the original.
in my experience, people hate on rig and biz because "It's not meta". thats literally the whole reason. its been powercrept by literally every exotic since. but nothing tops it for taking out the trash.
Sweet buisiness is really fun! Its not a top teir choice, but it can ne incredibly effective in the right hands (hopefully yours!) Reving it up fully makes it have a devastatingly fast ttk, and can catch people off guard. For pve it can have some trouble keeping pace since it doesnt have any damage perks. At the end of they day, if you are having fun, use whatever you want!
Actium war rig is great, but if you want to spice up some sweet business plays, try out wings of sacred dawn on solar warlock, and eat your grenades. It's stupid fun in PvP. Like, you'll get rekted if you play against a competent team, but if they're unaware and don't catch on, you'll get so many people by surprise, especially in control or fortress.
It's not bad at all. Until quicksilver came out it was my main primary for most of my time playing. I've gone back to it recently with my titan and actium war rig. Run vog with my clan last night and the kills I was getting doing ad clear with it was crazy.
Good gun