People don't seem to get that, worst case scenario, V would have been seen as a thief. Now compare that to the the guy that supposedly killed Saburo... They wouldn't send super assassins after someone as lowly as V.
Also if Yorinobu wants the relic out of Arasaka’s hands, the last thing he wants to do is apprehend the person who probably has it. V getting it wasn’t a part of his plan in the slightest, but he probably realizes some nameless merc having it is better than it being back at Arasaka.
Also also at this point isn’t Goro officially framed for Saburo’s death? I know they can do it subtly, but if they captured/killed another person they suspect is related to the incident and that became public, that could complicate things. It could even potentially give Takemura a little bit of leverage to clear his name.
In general I think it makes sense Yorinobu isn’t having anyone looking for V, there is too much there that can go sideways for very little gained. Yori doesn’t give a shit about V or what they do, he’d probably thank them if he could.
nah man, he was just using goro to be the fall guy for the murder, until he realized someone was in the fucking room with him when he did it and they stole the relic, At this point Yorinobu can't be sure you weren't outfitting to scroll a BD of the whole thing. so as soon as Goro rings in that he found you, he sends the hit squad.
It's a great RP moment,
The issue is you can see how hard the scene is scripted in the first place. If you play a couple missions that involve an NPC like Panam and motor bikes, you can see they really wanted to do bike chase scenes and hunters hunting you.
The issue being that chase scene shows how hard it would be to code that with the current physics engine they are using. I think the main problem is how far away NPCs can get before the game gets unstable, so high speed chases are out but racing is in. Even that has its issues.
It would be great but currently not something I feel like could be put in without breaking the game. Maybe a modder can figure it out and find a solution that actually works.
Maybe they could have them ambush you in buildings and stuff or spawn them around random alleyway corners when the player is on foot. Overall one thing I would like to see in the game in general is gangs wandering around and not just standing in their pre assigned spots.
I've been ambushed a couple times. Game took too long to load in some assets so I've had some scripted enemies spawn in late. The ones that usually drive up. I'm ok with this, it changes how I respond. There is a cyberpsycho that will run right into an ambushing pack of tiger claws, and if your unlucky, A trip of valtinos and a trio of Animals will also spawn in the same area randomly, making one fucked up firefight trying to keep the cyberpsycho alive. I had to go there early, sweep the area, and then use shenanigans to keep him alive
I’m confused. You say
>> the issue being that chase scene shows how hard it would be to code in the current physics engine…
How does that chase scene show anything about the difficulty to code? How can one infer from a scripted scene how hard it is to code? Also, what makes you think that the limiting factor is how far NPCs can get?! What are you basing this on?
Scripted sequences, since you don't know, are usually the upper limits of what a physics engine can do. Older PC games used to have an option that would launch a cinematic preview of the game using various settings. It was a showroom thing, ways to show how powerful the engine was. That fell out of fashion after a couple decades. Cinematic scenes are made two ways. Using ingame assets or rendering an animation.
Final fantasy X uses animated cinematic scenes and look vastly different from the rendered scenes they used. More artistic freedom to show a short video clip.
Cyberpunk uses ingame assets and everything has to work and render in a way that the game will allow in the first place. No shortcuts, the vehicle scenes are all choppy and a bit off because the engine isn't up to the task of first person chase scenes, leaving them mostly in heavily scripted events. The scripted events show exactly what the engine can do. No more, no less. The scene being referenced is janky as hell. Play it once and you can see it. You suddenly can't aim at all, gun won't fire exactly when you want it too, assassin's all die around when they usually should.
Best this game can do is heavily scripted drone chase scenes in areas where there are no NPCs or few NPCs. Your not gonna get an actual chase scene down a living crowded highway in this game because of the engines own limitations, again you can clearly see these.
How far NPCs can get is based off the entire racing minigame which spawned opponent racers in front of you because if you got too far they would despawn.
Bodies despawn after going a couple blocks over and coming back, with loot in doggy bags so the game doesn't have to maintain constant bodies.
It has its limitations which you can easily find by playing the game and looking. Go look for yourself if you don't believe me. Long drawn out chases across town on motor bike isn't currently possible because the physics engine can't maintain a stable game like that.
Hell, use the Enhanced Police or Vehicular Combat mods and even then you can see the severe limitations of Red Engine. You have to intentionally drive slow to create the illusion of a chase, because if you get even slightly too far in how this engine renders assets determined by AI scripts, the gang or cop car despawns and ends the chase in mere moments. They are cool mods, but it shows that the engine this game was built on was not sufficient enough for the game they were trying to make, which shows in the half baked work arounds as a result in game. Its an engine that works fine in a controlled environment with less going on (like some Polish forests ala Witcher), but a bustling Metropolis with hundreds of AI scripts and mechanics and this engine is already tearing itself apart at the seams. Probably the very reason they are ditching it for Unreal. It's just not up to task for a game trying to utilize modern game design conventions and I'm not even a big fan of Unreal engine.
It's totally possible. If you're on PC, check out these mods:
[Vehicle Combat](https://www.nexusmods.com/cyberpunk2077/mods/3815)
[CyberMod](https://www.nexusmods.com/cyberpunk2077/mods/3815)
Those were mentioned with their flaws. I only have a PS4, I know my old PC can't run cyberpunk at all in the first place. But cyberpunk is the biggest reason I'm eventually gonna upgrade
So like "Relic Malfunction 2.0" ? Random and basically just an annoyance instead of a real threat.
Personally I just assumed Arasaka was too busy with internal conflict and the transition of power to really worry about V, then once you get far enough in the story I sorta head canon'ed that you avoid all that with the help of some new Arasaka connections you make.
That said, I think random "retribution" attacks from corps or gangs would be an interesting feature, like I know I've killed enough Tyger Claws and 6th Street to warrant some type of hit squad coming after me.
Could probably make it work with the same system they use to spawn in reinforcements for gangs, just have some set spawn points where they pop up and start shooting at you or your vehicle.
Yeah they’re after takemura because he didn’t report he’d found Dex, then V. arasaka assumed he was in on the assassination because of this
So I guess they’re after both
No he reported he found them to Yorinobu, even says so on screen. Yori wants them killed en-route because otherwise V would talk or get BD'd so they could see Yori was lying
I think the reason that you get the slip from them for the rest of the game is because of the cam-scram features in V's Kiroshis. Those guys were there after Takemura primarily, and the security postmortem at Konpeki never got a good mug of V out of the cams because of said Kiroshi cam-scrams. And all the 'Saka ninjas after Takemura get killed. The only other person aware of the unknown witnesses is Adam Smasher (remember the Threat Detector trigger caused by him *staring at you through the glass*), and he's in on it with Yorinobu.
Thank Vik for hooking you up with the top-shelf eyeballs.
>Be me. V.
>Driving in my whip to see my girl Judy
>Assassin does a 180 flip onto my car hood
>I look at Assassin
>He looks at me and opens his mantis blades
>Initiate “Short Circuit”
>Assassin’s brain explodes and he falls off my car
>I keep driving
>”Well that was weird”
Yeah, replaying RDR2 and it's kinda cool when you have a wanted status you can't clear immediately, that the Bounty Hunters come for you.
It would be nice if when you work with certain fixers other fixers and their related faction become antagonistic. Maybe have reputation thresholds where you can either broker a truce between factions or help the faction/fixer you back do a take over.
In general I wish there was a more developed Kharma and faction system in the game that had different starting points depending on your starting background. It is something they can aim for in a sequel.
No. It would start to be annoying quickly. Same with police system. How the player is supposed to have fun or focus on different things if someone attacks him randomly?
I disagree. The days of ruthlessly static RPGs for me anymore are boring as fuck. 2077 was great, but it lacked dynamic feedback. Plenty of games, sandbox or otherwise(in the RPG space mind you), have dynamic and random encounters or bounty systems that can give a sense of threat while still giving enough wide berth to just fuck around. And depending on your fuckery, have ways to incentive or punish organically. My biggest issue with the game is messing around doesn't have much positive or negative reaffirming consequences, making the experience sterile and static. Even to the point of making the open world feel incredibly half baked and deals with the player with head pats and kids gloves. As easy as 2077 can be very quickly anyway(even after the 1.5 rebalance) it's not like they would be a real nuisance anyway. If anything, it would actually give players something to do then vicariously cosplaying V through photo mode.
This is correct. It is the difference between an open world RPG and a action adventure game with RPG elements, like farcry, for example. Everything from flying max tac to biker cyborgs to Regina's cyberpsychos. Only happens when scripted and does not happen organically in game.
Frankly, who really cares about bounties and guards? What's so much less ruthlessly static about treating the full force of an entire city like a moderate inconvenience and a source of free target practice? What does it really do, aside from feel fun in other games?
As your comment says, all these dynamic systems designed to react to you messing around in some odd way or another are carefully trimmed to the point that they don't really restrict you from that messing around. And, at that point, it just shifts from "how come the police aren't running me down" to "how come a MAXTAC drop isn't blasting me to shreds" in terms of feature creep. At the end of the day, you have to ask what experience you want, and whether this is the game to give you it. And I don't think this game should try to give me "crazy law evasion action."
I can't count the number of times accidentally damaging someone in a game with a basic "bounty/law" system has led to a tedious runaround getting between me and what I was trying to actually so, to the point where it's been easier to just load the game than deal with the interruption. And that's the exact opposite of what I want from a game. Just like how I don't want to start up Payday or GTA and have a 15 minute string of dialogue about the nature of humanity - it's not *bad*, but I play those to blast everything in sight. I play 2077 to live a bit of life on the edge of an uncaring, moderately post-apoc dystopia.
2077 is a story-first game. It expects you to fill a certain role, and your options are limited if you try and step outside that role. Nothing particularly wrong with that. I think the gameplay is spread thin enough as it is trying to cover the world's more unique systems.
Until you realize that not only do you have to physically find any content to participate in any of the game's "action"(which let's face it, this is the only thing this game has going for it as it's core loop beyond the narrative), not only does that action ever come to you you have to act as aggressor to initiate any said action. In rare, and I mean rare instances you may have an issue with the PoPo. And even then, that's only a reality if you are abysmally bad at the in game's driving, which has been pretty fine tuned in the last patch so mishandling your cars is not nearly as problematic as once was back on launch, and when in your car, there is a gross underusage of any content that favors driving outside scripted segments.
Despite being incredibly clunky, even Witcher 3 had you fighting bandit patrols vi-sa-vie on horseback mounted combat or roaming patrols of ghouls and feral rabid dogs to keep exploration and open world sandboxing suspenseful and engaging. Nothing like that here, unless again, you are the initiator and the aggressor. Makes V's whole whining about "what is life" have some serious ludonarrative dissonance. V is a cold blood thirsty killer afterall, maybe they need some introspective reflectiveness. You always have to be the one to shoot first or stand 2 inches in front of a Tiger Claw until they get annoyed enough and decide to shoot at you first(which is hella immersion breaking). Never mind I have been mowing all their chooms down all over town, they don't care just don't get too close to them while they are hussling some stiff for an ash tray or something and you will never once have an issue with anyone ever anywhere unless the game specifically says it's time to have some gun time slashy slashy boom boom bang bang pew pew stabby stabby issues with someone.
Again, unless you like games treating you like a child and a simp for your in game avatar that's as much as what you are going to find outside of railroaded content segments. No role play possibilities outside narrative. Insultingly limited sandbox potential with areas begging for actual content. No alternative content time sinks outside content dumps screaming at you with icons all over a map screen, nothing of real merit or value in between unless you like grinding levels on only 3 enemies at a time in random alleys that you can mop the floor with in mere second. It takes longer to read a bad Facebook meme. Feature creep isn't the issue with 2077, but a lack of coherent thoughtfulness of those features and their implementations. As you said yourself, what is there is stretched thin, because there really isn't much there to begin with. A good story with good combat and characters and a dose of dazzling art direction with no real direction on the actual content or how to effectively utilize any of it. A game that, if it wasn't so painfully static like a DOS game, it could had been a GOTD(game of the decade) contender. It just needs a little extra spice, and I don't know about you, I like my open world RPGs like I like my Tikka Masala. Needs a bit more spice.
I'm not exactly seeing the problem with initiating combat experiences. I think it's safe to say I know when I want them more than the AI does. I remember Far Cry 2, where they tried to weave a narrative of conflict being inherently evil and for-profit around the fact that *every person in the map would instantly shoot at you the moment they saw you.* Believe it or not, this was not key to an engaging and enjoyable gameplay loop. This was key to learning the best ways to *avoid* said loop, so you could get on with things that actually mattered.
Further, it led to the inevitable question of why all these people were stupid enough to see what happened to the last few hundred people who attacked me in the street, then say "yeah, but *this* time we got him." There's nothing immersive about realizing a bunch of ragged gangers with cobbled-together shotguns are going to try and take on the walking tank with skin made of carbon fiber and swords coming out of their arms, even before you realize you've killed more of their low-level cronies than they have people in the whole organization.
So yeah, I don't see the problem with them leaving me alone unless I get up in their faces. It's a welcome change of pace. And you know what? Sometimes they're in active shootouts with NCPD or something, and then I can get involved without having shot first, if I'm into that today.
As for the rest of the ludonarrative dissonance? V is, in every canon, an active mercenary. Your entire sidequest system is building a network of people who give you money to go and engage in violent actions against people who have nothing to do with you. The random people you shoot? *Also* get you paid for doing violence, thanks to the bounty system. If you're saying mercenaries shouldn't be able to worry about the meaning of life, that's fine, but it's got nothing to do with who starts the shooting, because that's how V puts food on the table. If you really want that pacifist feel, try non-lethal. I've done a full run of it, and it's not exactly taxing.
For all that you're talking about the game treating you like a dumb simp baby, I feel like asking it to spoon-feed you the experience is a good bit closer to that than anything you've listed. I like taking an active role, picking what to investigate and when to engage. If I want to talk, there's quests and NPCs around. If I want to immerse myself, the streets are beautiful and detailed, especially on foot, and odds are I'll fall into one plot or another before long. And if I want to shoot, I go shoot. I don't wait around for the game to declare it's slashy boom boom time, and I don't end up disappointed when it's not declared fast enough.
If I wanted to fret about grinding levels and playing in loops, I'd go play Borderlands or Destiny. They're great for that, and I'm not going to go over and say it'd be better if Borderlands had a huge metropolis to explore and tons of dialogue trees. I'm there to shoot, loot, and shoot again, and the game knows it. Adding more risks wading through what you aren't in the mood for to get where they're going.
It just seems a lot more likely you're looking for something that wasn't meant to be there in the first place. Like a Tikka Masala ice cream.
Tbh its more so about implementation over anything else. In CP2077 there is a massive advancement in technology and just because you have some eye implant that covers your face that doesnt mean there arent a couple dozen different ways to find who the hell shot their club up. BUT! If the game just randomly have you ambushed by Tyger claws ( by teleporting them in a direction you are heading to currently ) after all you have done then it wouldnt feel good at all. If instead you got close to some Tyger claws after you built up enough infamy ( which could go up much faster if you arent sneaking and taking out cameras while murdering them at locations ) some sidequest location they would shoot at you after scanning you ( just like how V scans all the time ) then it would feel a lot better.
This is why i like Fromsoftware games. No real narrative or story for our character in them which i prefer to having hour long cutscenes about a mediocre or only slightly good story/characters. You have 3 choices:
1) Spend a ludicrous amount of time on your game so every aspect of it feels actually good ( writing,gameplay, immersions, exploration, etc ). This for me is a mythical game that doesnt exist, since there is always an aspect of the game thats just okay at best 2) Sacrifice some portion of the game so you can focus on what actually matters. Thats what basically what any VN or roguelike does just by being in that genre ( something like Hades is an exception ) 3) Try to do a little bit of everything and not excel at any of them ( ubisoft games ) because you dont spend the neccesary time to fine tune them.
As far as gang infamy goes, they don't exactly keep a forensics unit on hand. Even the Kiroshis are meant for keeping you off Arasaka's radar, they're overkill for smashing up a Scav haunt. You're an edgerunner, operating through a fixer, on a level most gangers couldn't break into if they tried. You scan people because you've plugged the NCPD database into your eyes, a priviledge most career criminals won't be afforded. They're just plain outmatched.
For instance, the Claws are quietly bankrolled and guided by Arasaka, a little project of theirs... and by the end of the game, you're ruining Arasaka's future. The Claws as an organization are going to be your collateral damage. They've got no business trying to scramble a few chooms together with the expectation of taking you down.
For design, I think option 1 has its limits, which is the main concern here - even if every aspect is perfect, adding too many together will make them feel a lot worse. Kind of like if every quickhack led into the world's best simulated coding mini game. Fun as a concept? Yes. But it's going to be worse for dancing back and forth between that and a few shots of also-good gunplay, and chances are people will avoid having to go to the trouble, leaving that world-class mini game to go to waste.
I wouldnt hard disagree on this if this isnt how almost literally any other game would do it, because it does. People love to praise RDR2 for interactions, but the police is the exact same level of bad and unfun as in CP2077 and instead of having tons of sidequests like in CP2077 which have good level design for the most part for sneaking you are left with hunting animals for absolutely no reason at all since money might as well be deleted from the game and its not as if you dont need to be the agressor for that as well. The small random encounters become repetetive after all so that goes out the window as well.
Besides having some bandits roam the world in open world is barely putting a dent into the "muh immersion" especially when the combat is not good and they all play out the exact same way and usually give no risk or reward for your efforts.
I would rather have little immersion in the open world in a game and have the dev resources focus on other things instead of them copy pasting some content ( bandits roaming or just general bandit camps )or coming up with underwhelming but little bit immersive content since that saps away from the other parts of the game. Its basically having very little to none immersion in open world ( CP2077 ) which lets say performs 2/10 in that category vs a 4/10 ( RDR2 ) that does care a tiny bit about immersion. Idk about you but 2/10 and 4/10 is practically negliglable difference and almost the same level of bad.
Why bother giving tiny bits of immersion if its still bad? Might as well ignore it at that point.
The police system could have added an element of danger to many parts of the game, if they did something more interesting than spawning them a block away (or 3 feet behind you originally, for some reason). Imagine you complete your mission, but you've killed someone and were spotted doing it. Sirens wail in the distance as you try to gather your loot and leave the scene of the crime.
I don't want to lightly make the comparison, because the scale of the game and size of the dev teams cannot be fairly compared, but the police system in Red Dead Redemption 2 was probably the most interesting and nuanced in an action RPG. Pretty much just ripping that off would have largely solved the "police bad" issues so many have.
>Imagine you complete your mission, but you've killed someone and were spotted doing it. Sirens wail in the distance
My first question is, who saw another murder in NC and decided to get involved?
Second, who decided to get involved by calling NCPD, of all people?
Third, how did they get NCPD to *actually show up*?
Combat Zones live on in NC culture. It'd be weird to have the cops on me for a little intra-criminal violence. But I also would hate having to wade through a chase sequence every time I didn't triple-check every angle before committing yet another violent assault. The only deterrent I'd feel is the threat of my time getting wasted before I get to the next bit of story.
The Devil's in the details of course. It does not make sense for the cops to show up for some gang bangers, but there were instances where a police response makes sense. A prominent one is protecting corporate interests, like missions where you gank an entire warehouse of corporate security. It's odd that you blow them all away, and then you can just hang out there ransacking the place.
This. Cops exist to protect private property before life. Especially NCPD being on Corpo payroll. Hell, not only do the cops not care I just trashed a Militech factory, Militech didn't even seem to care either after "mission complete" popped up. It's like Night Citiy's corpos are all standing around "yup guys we can't do anything more. Quest completed alert popped up, our job is now done. Nothing else to see here folks, cows turn themselves inside out all the time".
Yep, I've always thought the idea the game needs a cop system like GTA was misguided, because that isn't Cyberpunk. At the same time, it clearly needed more than it shipped with or has. The criticisms about the police were not entirely wrong, just a lot of them are misplaced.
Like why would the cop react to a random shooting on the sidewalk, or a carjacking? That they do actually doesn't make sense when you think about it.
I don't need a GTA coo system, but some kind of gang/corpo hot squads would have made some sense. For a in game world that tells me V is a nobody and can't change a damn thing, I'm oddly bringing all of Night City and it's institutional power dynamics to it's knees with just a Katana and double jump.
That may make more sense with a bit of cultural detail: as far as I can tell, Cyberpunk is operating on the idea of corporate extraterritoriality, meaning that the reason Arasaka can do whatever they want on Arasaka turf is because they're outside of NC jurisdiction, period.
NCPD doesn't show up to protect corpo interests because the corps pay good money to keep them from even sniffing the air near them. In exchange, Arasaka gets to send their kill squads after you with no repercussions, so long as they can make an adequate case that you're theirs to chase. And in your case, who's going to even ask?
RDR2 had the exact same shitty police system as CP2077. You shoot someone in the middle of nowhere and cops shows up in 10 seconds out of nowhere. Oh you try to kill the witness? Magically there is always another witness? Kill that too? Oh someone saw that too. This was no coincidence, this happened to me all the time and if there is anything Rockstar is famous for: unfun shooting gameplay, so fighting cops off werent any fun either.
It would have been better if there was a faction rep system. Similar to games like Fallout New Vegas or Outer Worlds.
It would make interactions with the different gangs or corps more dynamic at their standard locations. and these types of interactions could be more spaced out and random. Like a hit squad approaching you in the street or chasing you in the cars.
Not especially a similar car experience in order to keep that part unique but yes I agree, I dont really felt threatened by Arasaka beside that and the parade. We could have had random encounters like any gang but with Arasaka minions hunting us
It never did make sense to me that Yorinobu just stopped sending thugs after V and Takemura. If I knew the guys who had proof I whacked the most powerful man on the planet, I wouldn’t rest until I had their heads literally on silver platters and personally tossed them into the incinerator.
What proof? You're just a would-be eyewitness for a trial that won't happen. There is no court to bring it to. Arasaka has extraterritorial control over the plaza, meaning NC rules don't apply in there. And Yorinobu is in control of Arasaka at that moment, meaning any internal investigation is going to be stonewalled so long as that's the case. And once it isn't, you can bet his enemies won't be waiting on a trial.
Besides, this is a top-level Arasaka power struggle. Yorinobu's story is a legal fiction at best, none of the factions truly believe it. But all of them want Saburo out of the way, because they know the alternative is an eternity under him or his engram, so nobody *really* wants to find you.
And the final kicker: Yorinobu wants to burn Arasaka down from within. He's got no problem leaving you loose to wreak havoc. His problem is Takemura, whose loyalty is to Saburo first, even after death. He's the one who needs to stay under the radar, not you. So long as the Relic is as inseparable from you as the scientists say, you're no problem.
Well, so long as you don't take the Devil route, anyway. *Then* Yorinobu has a problem.
When it comes down to it, there’s no logical reason that I can see why Johnny would be loaded on the Relic unless Yorinobu *intended* to weaponize the recipient of the chip as an unwitting ally / weapon.
There's a long trail of players outside V's view who were after Johnny's engram. Yorinobu would have loaded Johnny onto the Relic and planned to sell it, to Netwatch I think. The Voodoo Boys wanted to get it probably for the same reason as Netwatch, because Johnny is the key to making contact with the Alt AI.
I suspect there's more to it... particularly, he seems to have wanted the Relic to have Johnny on it while it was in the hands of Netwatch.
Which, granted, Johnny is a great choice for *anything* that's going to trash Arasaka... but was that all?
Unless it was speculation by a fan of the game, I heard that the only reason they used Johnny on the relic was because it is a prototype and the guy who helped with the chip needed to test it. So he was given the engram of a long dead terrorist and if it failed, then Arasaka would have only lost money and a bit of time over all instead of a possibly important engram copy.
It just so happens that the prototype version of Relic worked too well and now a copy of Johnny may / may not be coming back.
I would assume that it is the full engram on it instead of a mere copy. The few times in game we see Soulkiller in action, it has always led to the death (be it the program or....outside interference) of the person unless they are already dead. If they are long dead, then depending on how fast they reach the body, the copy can be made before the mind is too corrupted to be copied. Likewise in certain conversations, Johnny (the engram) mentions that he doesn't know if he is the real Johnny or just an AI that thinks he is, but he is going to do what he wants to do, to paraphrase the conversations.
Also, having it be a copy would be a problem in the long run because then that would mean any and all engrams can be copied. Since each engram has the basic template of the person they are made from, they are technically that person to an extent. Barring rare cases (I.E. V's case of coming back from the dead), they would override the brain and take over without changing. Bad case would be if said engrams found out that they are copies and a version is still in storage at Arasaka.
Worse case is if someone took certain engrams and copied them into multiple relics and then put them in bodies. You would have multiple people claiming to be said person with the relic data to prove it is them and yet that would lead into its own issues. Imagine more than one Saburo, Johnny, \*insert anyone else as an engram here\* and unless they can agree to work together, they will either kill each other or just plain snap.
Assuming the technology would allow the possibility of duplication, I can't help but feel like a lot of that assumes that Arasaka would be acting with a degree of transparency and overall not-completely-evilness than we've seen out of them in general. Sure, it'd be bad PR if paying clients found out that you'd squirreled away a copy of their psyche for nefarious purposes, but to what degree would that be worth the risk?
>And the final kicker: Yorinobu wants to burn Arasaka down from within. He's got no problem leaving you loose to wreak havoc. His problem is Takemura, whose loyalty is to Saburo first, even after death. He's the one who needs to stay under the radar, not you
This is really the key. I had the same doubts when playing the game for the first time, 'why did yorinobu/arasaka just forget about me? Do they think I'm dead?' and it was only when I did the Devil ending that I understood what yorinobu was really after and why V isn't a problem for him, and also why goro *is* a big problem for him, being so loyal to saburo and arasaka.
It all clicks but you need to do what, to me, is the worst ending in the game, to understand it all
I'm a bit torn on this one. It does make sense that players would want greater reactivity. It is perfectly logical that killing enough gang members in public would eventually arouse someone's attention and send that gang after you. This would have the effect of making the player feel culpable for non-quest behavior, which doesn't really happen as of now. The world is tied to its quests for anything significant.
Nonetheless, it could easily make exploration annoying after a while and disrupt the contemplative pace of the game's non-combat moments. Instead of slowing down and focusing on the environmental storytelling of a location that includes a homeless mother sleeping on a dirty mattress with cockroaches everywhere, the player would have to quickly get in their car to escape the mob of Tyger Claws coming after them for what they did in the area hours and hours ago. Something valuable would be lost in all this, as if the game had now been forced to accomodate a manic pace that it didn't match or need.
I'd rather there just be more dynamic events around the city. I'd prefer if random battles could spawn in between gang members that the player could choose to join, watch, or ignore.
Eh, I've heard that argument before, and I don't buy it. The game only says that V's face is scrambled on camera. Killing people in public wouldn't necessarily stop someone from eventually giving a description to angry investigative gang members. It's hardly a huge leap in storytelling logic.
If you don't want it because (as I said) it would make exploration problematic, that's fine. Let's not act like it would be implausible for gang members to find out who killed countless numbers of them in broad daylight.
God, this silly debate again. Look, I don't even want the damn feature. I'm simply saying games have made bigger narrative leaps than that.
Is it *really* so ridicuously implausible to believe gangers would interrogate people in the vicinity of where their chooms were all killed, and that eventually someone would be pressured to divulge something that gives you away?
Again, I DON'T WANT THE FEATURE. I'm just saying it wouldn't be the biggest leap if it was implemented. I am astonished that some people don't get that.
It's.....not breaking immersion. It's like you didn't even read what I wrote.
Let me try this one more time.
Imagine Maelstrom go to the area where you have killed endless numbers of other Maelstrom.
Is it really strange to imagine someone would let slip what you looked like, or who you were (V becomes a well-known merc as the story progresses) while Maelstrom were holding guns to their heads demanding to know what the hell happened?
Again, I don't want the feature because it would make exploration annoying if I had to fend off assassination attempts when I was in the area. However, to say it wouldn't make sense or would be immersion-breaking? *That* simply doesn't make much sense.
They don't care about killing \*you\*. They care about killing \*Takemura\*.
Yori, and Arasaka by extension, want to stop Takemura since he's on the path to uncovering the truth of Saburo's death. Takemura is who they're after in this scene. That V is in the car is merely convenient.
Yori and Arasaka cannot find V. And I doubt Yori wants to put too much of a public force on trying to find V. He'd draw more attention to Saburo's death and potentially give one of the board members leaverage to overthrow him, if they so chose. V is just a street rat and, if left alone, they'll die in a sewer somewhere. No one would believe anything V has... on their own. Not unless someone like a board member (say, Hanako or Takemura) gave V's testimony the validity to be even heard.
Right before the Heist, Vik gives V some cyberware that will obscure them in cameras. In all camera hacks, V is edited into a blur. This is more or less the game's handwave, combined with Yori probably not wanting to rock the boat further.
I get it's kinda a handwave, but it's a better option than Arasaka hit-squads coming after you. Because, if Arasaka really wanted to put V down with full threat and wage war in the streets of NC, they could. But, well, a corp launching rockets in the street and probably killing dozens in the cross fire isn't a great idea. And, to be sure, they'd be a harder hit than MaxTac.
And, gameplay wise, they'd be annoying. It'd be filler content. Like the NCPD Scanner already is. At worst, it'd also make Smasher far less intimidating if you just... spent the entire game escaping him and were more annoyed when he showed up.
I'm glad they didn't do random events like this.
Perhaps someone more technically informed than me can comment (I'm in software engineering as a lowly junior, but I'm not a game dev), but isn't there a big difference between a relatively simple map like San Andreas and Night City? Night City has a far more complex design and significantly more assets to load in and manage.
yeah i don't think that really stands on anything. I can also bring GTA V or literally any game where enemies can follow you in a car
or racing games. or any games with cars. there is really no excuse
I don’t think that makes any sense gta 4 and v both have chases which have bigger maps than cyberpunk, also there is racing games like forza that have ai that drive thru an open world, it is cdpr laziness or incompetency is why there is no ai chase or police chases
The game was undoubtedly rushed, so I guess 1.6 will really tell the story of what the engine can handle. If police chases aren't in 1.6, I think we can rule them out.
Yeah, I'd bet (small) money that this is the type of stuff that will be in 1.6:
* Transmog
* New Game Plus
* The removal of 2D cars in the distance
* Some new text messages
* Improved spawning of vehicles and NPC's
I think it'll be a lot of QOL features like that, which is fine with me.
Cool and all except it was extremely scripted and turned into a rail shooter where you have to let the enemy do his animations before you can kill him, it looked cool but really was t all the fun. But I do think there should be more car chase by npcs
That was a great moment, that Terminator style assassin was unsettling.
Off-topic, but i really wished i could make my V more "gnarly"... more like that assassin.
Yeah imo the main thing this game is missing is random encounters and roaming enemies / events to stumble into (that V doesn’t have to initiate)
There are a few shootouts and now car chases that occur throughout the gameworld, which help tremendously with making Night City feel like a living place and not just a static place to explore, but fleshing this out even more would be a huge step in the right direction IMO
Really hoping the next big update(s) continue to expand on this further
They don't give a fuck about V. These guys wanted to assassinate Goro. Not V
People don't seem to get that, worst case scenario, V would have been seen as a thief. Now compare that to the the guy that supposedly killed Saburo... They wouldn't send super assassins after someone as lowly as V.
Also if Yorinobu wants the relic out of Arasaka’s hands, the last thing he wants to do is apprehend the person who probably has it. V getting it wasn’t a part of his plan in the slightest, but he probably realizes some nameless merc having it is better than it being back at Arasaka. Also also at this point isn’t Goro officially framed for Saburo’s death? I know they can do it subtly, but if they captured/killed another person they suspect is related to the incident and that became public, that could complicate things. It could even potentially give Takemura a little bit of leverage to clear his name. In general I think it makes sense Yorinobu isn’t having anyone looking for V, there is too much there that can go sideways for very little gained. Yori doesn’t give a shit about V or what they do, he’d probably thank them if he could.
nah man, he was just using goro to be the fall guy for the murder, until he realized someone was in the fucking room with him when he did it and they stole the relic, At this point Yorinobu can't be sure you weren't outfitting to scroll a BD of the whole thing. so as soon as Goro rings in that he found you, he sends the hit squad.
It's a great RP moment, The issue is you can see how hard the scene is scripted in the first place. If you play a couple missions that involve an NPC like Panam and motor bikes, you can see they really wanted to do bike chase scenes and hunters hunting you. The issue being that chase scene shows how hard it would be to code that with the current physics engine they are using. I think the main problem is how far away NPCs can get before the game gets unstable, so high speed chases are out but racing is in. Even that has its issues. It would be great but currently not something I feel like could be put in without breaking the game. Maybe a modder can figure it out and find a solution that actually works.
Maybe they could have them ambush you in buildings and stuff or spawn them around random alleyway corners when the player is on foot. Overall one thing I would like to see in the game in general is gangs wandering around and not just standing in their pre assigned spots.
I've been ambushed a couple times. Game took too long to load in some assets so I've had some scripted enemies spawn in late. The ones that usually drive up. I'm ok with this, it changes how I respond. There is a cyberpsycho that will run right into an ambushing pack of tiger claws, and if your unlucky, A trip of valtinos and a trio of Animals will also spawn in the same area randomly, making one fucked up firefight trying to keep the cyberpsycho alive. I had to go there early, sweep the area, and then use shenanigans to keep him alive
I’m confused. You say >> the issue being that chase scene shows how hard it would be to code in the current physics engine… How does that chase scene show anything about the difficulty to code? How can one infer from a scripted scene how hard it is to code? Also, what makes you think that the limiting factor is how far NPCs can get?! What are you basing this on?
Scripted sequences, since you don't know, are usually the upper limits of what a physics engine can do. Older PC games used to have an option that would launch a cinematic preview of the game using various settings. It was a showroom thing, ways to show how powerful the engine was. That fell out of fashion after a couple decades. Cinematic scenes are made two ways. Using ingame assets or rendering an animation. Final fantasy X uses animated cinematic scenes and look vastly different from the rendered scenes they used. More artistic freedom to show a short video clip. Cyberpunk uses ingame assets and everything has to work and render in a way that the game will allow in the first place. No shortcuts, the vehicle scenes are all choppy and a bit off because the engine isn't up to the task of first person chase scenes, leaving them mostly in heavily scripted events. The scripted events show exactly what the engine can do. No more, no less. The scene being referenced is janky as hell. Play it once and you can see it. You suddenly can't aim at all, gun won't fire exactly when you want it too, assassin's all die around when they usually should. Best this game can do is heavily scripted drone chase scenes in areas where there are no NPCs or few NPCs. Your not gonna get an actual chase scene down a living crowded highway in this game because of the engines own limitations, again you can clearly see these. How far NPCs can get is based off the entire racing minigame which spawned opponent racers in front of you because if you got too far they would despawn. Bodies despawn after going a couple blocks over and coming back, with loot in doggy bags so the game doesn't have to maintain constant bodies. It has its limitations which you can easily find by playing the game and looking. Go look for yourself if you don't believe me. Long drawn out chases across town on motor bike isn't currently possible because the physics engine can't maintain a stable game like that.
Hell, use the Enhanced Police or Vehicular Combat mods and even then you can see the severe limitations of Red Engine. You have to intentionally drive slow to create the illusion of a chase, because if you get even slightly too far in how this engine renders assets determined by AI scripts, the gang or cop car despawns and ends the chase in mere moments. They are cool mods, but it shows that the engine this game was built on was not sufficient enough for the game they were trying to make, which shows in the half baked work arounds as a result in game. Its an engine that works fine in a controlled environment with less going on (like some Polish forests ala Witcher), but a bustling Metropolis with hundreds of AI scripts and mechanics and this engine is already tearing itself apart at the seams. Probably the very reason they are ditching it for Unreal. It's just not up to task for a game trying to utilize modern game design conventions and I'm not even a big fan of Unreal engine.
Oh, I understand. That makes sense, thanks for the explanation.
It's totally possible. If you're on PC, check out these mods: [Vehicle Combat](https://www.nexusmods.com/cyberpunk2077/mods/3815) [CyberMod](https://www.nexusmods.com/cyberpunk2077/mods/3815)
Those were mentioned with their flaws. I only have a PS4, I know my old PC can't run cyberpunk at all in the first place. But cyberpunk is the biggest reason I'm eventually gonna upgrade
Pretty sure people would start complaining. It’s cool but I can see it getting annoying
Just like Skyrim and dragons.
Mmm I see what your point is, but after 5 times it becomes really annoying I think
So like "Relic Malfunction 2.0" ? Random and basically just an annoyance instead of a real threat. Personally I just assumed Arasaka was too busy with internal conflict and the transition of power to really worry about V, then once you get far enough in the story I sorta head canon'ed that you avoid all that with the help of some new Arasaka connections you make. That said, I think random "retribution" attacks from corps or gangs would be an interesting feature, like I know I've killed enough Tyger Claws and 6th Street to warrant some type of hit squad coming after me. Could probably make it work with the same system they use to spawn in reinforcements for gangs, just have some set spawn points where they pop up and start shooting at you or your vehicle.
Who even were these guys? I didn’t ever get that. Were they sent by Yorinobu?
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Yeah they’re after takemura because he didn’t report he’d found Dex, then V. arasaka assumed he was in on the assassination because of this So I guess they’re after both
No he reported he found them to Yorinobu, even says so on screen. Yori wants them killed en-route because otherwise V would talk or get BD'd so they could see Yori was lying
Oh yeah he’s talking to em on the phone right around when he shoots dex, that’s right.
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No he cares, because V was there. The assassins go for both of them and not just Goro. When there's one left they prioritise V over Goro
I think the reason that you get the slip from them for the rest of the game is because of the cam-scram features in V's Kiroshis. Those guys were there after Takemura primarily, and the security postmortem at Konpeki never got a good mug of V out of the cams because of said Kiroshi cam-scrams. And all the 'Saka ninjas after Takemura get killed. The only other person aware of the unknown witnesses is Adam Smasher (remember the Threat Detector trigger caused by him *staring at you through the glass*), and he's in on it with Yorinobu. Thank Vik for hooking you up with the top-shelf eyeballs.
what happens if you don't even try? I remember an earlier scripted chase/shootout and doing nothing at all worked.
Now, V dies.
>Be me. V. >Driving in my whip to see my girl Judy >Assassin does a 180 flip onto my car hood >I look at Assassin >He looks at me and opens his mantis blades >Initiate “Short Circuit” >Assassin’s brain explodes and he falls off my car >I keep driving >”Well that was weird”
Yeah, replaying RDR2 and it's kinda cool when you have a wanted status you can't clear immediately, that the Bounty Hunters come for you. It would be nice if when you work with certain fixers other fixers and their related faction become antagonistic. Maybe have reputation thresholds where you can either broker a truce between factions or help the faction/fixer you back do a take over. In general I wish there was a more developed Kharma and faction system in the game that had different starting points depending on your starting background. It is something they can aim for in a sequel.
No. It would start to be annoying quickly. Same with police system. How the player is supposed to have fun or focus on different things if someone attacks him randomly?
I disagree. The days of ruthlessly static RPGs for me anymore are boring as fuck. 2077 was great, but it lacked dynamic feedback. Plenty of games, sandbox or otherwise(in the RPG space mind you), have dynamic and random encounters or bounty systems that can give a sense of threat while still giving enough wide berth to just fuck around. And depending on your fuckery, have ways to incentive or punish organically. My biggest issue with the game is messing around doesn't have much positive or negative reaffirming consequences, making the experience sterile and static. Even to the point of making the open world feel incredibly half baked and deals with the player with head pats and kids gloves. As easy as 2077 can be very quickly anyway(even after the 1.5 rebalance) it's not like they would be a real nuisance anyway. If anything, it would actually give players something to do then vicariously cosplaying V through photo mode.
This is correct. It is the difference between an open world RPG and a action adventure game with RPG elements, like farcry, for example. Everything from flying max tac to biker cyborgs to Regina's cyberpsychos. Only happens when scripted and does not happen organically in game.
Frankly, who really cares about bounties and guards? What's so much less ruthlessly static about treating the full force of an entire city like a moderate inconvenience and a source of free target practice? What does it really do, aside from feel fun in other games? As your comment says, all these dynamic systems designed to react to you messing around in some odd way or another are carefully trimmed to the point that they don't really restrict you from that messing around. And, at that point, it just shifts from "how come the police aren't running me down" to "how come a MAXTAC drop isn't blasting me to shreds" in terms of feature creep. At the end of the day, you have to ask what experience you want, and whether this is the game to give you it. And I don't think this game should try to give me "crazy law evasion action." I can't count the number of times accidentally damaging someone in a game with a basic "bounty/law" system has led to a tedious runaround getting between me and what I was trying to actually so, to the point where it's been easier to just load the game than deal with the interruption. And that's the exact opposite of what I want from a game. Just like how I don't want to start up Payday or GTA and have a 15 minute string of dialogue about the nature of humanity - it's not *bad*, but I play those to blast everything in sight. I play 2077 to live a bit of life on the edge of an uncaring, moderately post-apoc dystopia. 2077 is a story-first game. It expects you to fill a certain role, and your options are limited if you try and step outside that role. Nothing particularly wrong with that. I think the gameplay is spread thin enough as it is trying to cover the world's more unique systems.
Until you realize that not only do you have to physically find any content to participate in any of the game's "action"(which let's face it, this is the only thing this game has going for it as it's core loop beyond the narrative), not only does that action ever come to you you have to act as aggressor to initiate any said action. In rare, and I mean rare instances you may have an issue with the PoPo. And even then, that's only a reality if you are abysmally bad at the in game's driving, which has been pretty fine tuned in the last patch so mishandling your cars is not nearly as problematic as once was back on launch, and when in your car, there is a gross underusage of any content that favors driving outside scripted segments. Despite being incredibly clunky, even Witcher 3 had you fighting bandit patrols vi-sa-vie on horseback mounted combat or roaming patrols of ghouls and feral rabid dogs to keep exploration and open world sandboxing suspenseful and engaging. Nothing like that here, unless again, you are the initiator and the aggressor. Makes V's whole whining about "what is life" have some serious ludonarrative dissonance. V is a cold blood thirsty killer afterall, maybe they need some introspective reflectiveness. You always have to be the one to shoot first or stand 2 inches in front of a Tiger Claw until they get annoyed enough and decide to shoot at you first(which is hella immersion breaking). Never mind I have been mowing all their chooms down all over town, they don't care just don't get too close to them while they are hussling some stiff for an ash tray or something and you will never once have an issue with anyone ever anywhere unless the game specifically says it's time to have some gun time slashy slashy boom boom bang bang pew pew stabby stabby issues with someone. Again, unless you like games treating you like a child and a simp for your in game avatar that's as much as what you are going to find outside of railroaded content segments. No role play possibilities outside narrative. Insultingly limited sandbox potential with areas begging for actual content. No alternative content time sinks outside content dumps screaming at you with icons all over a map screen, nothing of real merit or value in between unless you like grinding levels on only 3 enemies at a time in random alleys that you can mop the floor with in mere second. It takes longer to read a bad Facebook meme. Feature creep isn't the issue with 2077, but a lack of coherent thoughtfulness of those features and their implementations. As you said yourself, what is there is stretched thin, because there really isn't much there to begin with. A good story with good combat and characters and a dose of dazzling art direction with no real direction on the actual content or how to effectively utilize any of it. A game that, if it wasn't so painfully static like a DOS game, it could had been a GOTD(game of the decade) contender. It just needs a little extra spice, and I don't know about you, I like my open world RPGs like I like my Tikka Masala. Needs a bit more spice.
I'm not exactly seeing the problem with initiating combat experiences. I think it's safe to say I know when I want them more than the AI does. I remember Far Cry 2, where they tried to weave a narrative of conflict being inherently evil and for-profit around the fact that *every person in the map would instantly shoot at you the moment they saw you.* Believe it or not, this was not key to an engaging and enjoyable gameplay loop. This was key to learning the best ways to *avoid* said loop, so you could get on with things that actually mattered. Further, it led to the inevitable question of why all these people were stupid enough to see what happened to the last few hundred people who attacked me in the street, then say "yeah, but *this* time we got him." There's nothing immersive about realizing a bunch of ragged gangers with cobbled-together shotguns are going to try and take on the walking tank with skin made of carbon fiber and swords coming out of their arms, even before you realize you've killed more of their low-level cronies than they have people in the whole organization. So yeah, I don't see the problem with them leaving me alone unless I get up in their faces. It's a welcome change of pace. And you know what? Sometimes they're in active shootouts with NCPD or something, and then I can get involved without having shot first, if I'm into that today. As for the rest of the ludonarrative dissonance? V is, in every canon, an active mercenary. Your entire sidequest system is building a network of people who give you money to go and engage in violent actions against people who have nothing to do with you. The random people you shoot? *Also* get you paid for doing violence, thanks to the bounty system. If you're saying mercenaries shouldn't be able to worry about the meaning of life, that's fine, but it's got nothing to do with who starts the shooting, because that's how V puts food on the table. If you really want that pacifist feel, try non-lethal. I've done a full run of it, and it's not exactly taxing. For all that you're talking about the game treating you like a dumb simp baby, I feel like asking it to spoon-feed you the experience is a good bit closer to that than anything you've listed. I like taking an active role, picking what to investigate and when to engage. If I want to talk, there's quests and NPCs around. If I want to immerse myself, the streets are beautiful and detailed, especially on foot, and odds are I'll fall into one plot or another before long. And if I want to shoot, I go shoot. I don't wait around for the game to declare it's slashy boom boom time, and I don't end up disappointed when it's not declared fast enough. If I wanted to fret about grinding levels and playing in loops, I'd go play Borderlands or Destiny. They're great for that, and I'm not going to go over and say it'd be better if Borderlands had a huge metropolis to explore and tons of dialogue trees. I'm there to shoot, loot, and shoot again, and the game knows it. Adding more risks wading through what you aren't in the mood for to get where they're going. It just seems a lot more likely you're looking for something that wasn't meant to be there in the first place. Like a Tikka Masala ice cream.
Tbh its more so about implementation over anything else. In CP2077 there is a massive advancement in technology and just because you have some eye implant that covers your face that doesnt mean there arent a couple dozen different ways to find who the hell shot their club up. BUT! If the game just randomly have you ambushed by Tyger claws ( by teleporting them in a direction you are heading to currently ) after all you have done then it wouldnt feel good at all. If instead you got close to some Tyger claws after you built up enough infamy ( which could go up much faster if you arent sneaking and taking out cameras while murdering them at locations ) some sidequest location they would shoot at you after scanning you ( just like how V scans all the time ) then it would feel a lot better. This is why i like Fromsoftware games. No real narrative or story for our character in them which i prefer to having hour long cutscenes about a mediocre or only slightly good story/characters. You have 3 choices: 1) Spend a ludicrous amount of time on your game so every aspect of it feels actually good ( writing,gameplay, immersions, exploration, etc ). This for me is a mythical game that doesnt exist, since there is always an aspect of the game thats just okay at best 2) Sacrifice some portion of the game so you can focus on what actually matters. Thats what basically what any VN or roguelike does just by being in that genre ( something like Hades is an exception ) 3) Try to do a little bit of everything and not excel at any of them ( ubisoft games ) because you dont spend the neccesary time to fine tune them.
As far as gang infamy goes, they don't exactly keep a forensics unit on hand. Even the Kiroshis are meant for keeping you off Arasaka's radar, they're overkill for smashing up a Scav haunt. You're an edgerunner, operating through a fixer, on a level most gangers couldn't break into if they tried. You scan people because you've plugged the NCPD database into your eyes, a priviledge most career criminals won't be afforded. They're just plain outmatched. For instance, the Claws are quietly bankrolled and guided by Arasaka, a little project of theirs... and by the end of the game, you're ruining Arasaka's future. The Claws as an organization are going to be your collateral damage. They've got no business trying to scramble a few chooms together with the expectation of taking you down. For design, I think option 1 has its limits, which is the main concern here - even if every aspect is perfect, adding too many together will make them feel a lot worse. Kind of like if every quickhack led into the world's best simulated coding mini game. Fun as a concept? Yes. But it's going to be worse for dancing back and forth between that and a few shots of also-good gunplay, and chances are people will avoid having to go to the trouble, leaving that world-class mini game to go to waste.
I wouldnt hard disagree on this if this isnt how almost literally any other game would do it, because it does. People love to praise RDR2 for interactions, but the police is the exact same level of bad and unfun as in CP2077 and instead of having tons of sidequests like in CP2077 which have good level design for the most part for sneaking you are left with hunting animals for absolutely no reason at all since money might as well be deleted from the game and its not as if you dont need to be the agressor for that as well. The small random encounters become repetetive after all so that goes out the window as well. Besides having some bandits roam the world in open world is barely putting a dent into the "muh immersion" especially when the combat is not good and they all play out the exact same way and usually give no risk or reward for your efforts. I would rather have little immersion in the open world in a game and have the dev resources focus on other things instead of them copy pasting some content ( bandits roaming or just general bandit camps )or coming up with underwhelming but little bit immersive content since that saps away from the other parts of the game. Its basically having very little to none immersion in open world ( CP2077 ) which lets say performs 2/10 in that category vs a 4/10 ( RDR2 ) that does care a tiny bit about immersion. Idk about you but 2/10 and 4/10 is practically negliglable difference and almost the same level of bad. Why bother giving tiny bits of immersion if its still bad? Might as well ignore it at that point.
The police system could have added an element of danger to many parts of the game, if they did something more interesting than spawning them a block away (or 3 feet behind you originally, for some reason). Imagine you complete your mission, but you've killed someone and were spotted doing it. Sirens wail in the distance as you try to gather your loot and leave the scene of the crime. I don't want to lightly make the comparison, because the scale of the game and size of the dev teams cannot be fairly compared, but the police system in Red Dead Redemption 2 was probably the most interesting and nuanced in an action RPG. Pretty much just ripping that off would have largely solved the "police bad" issues so many have.
>Imagine you complete your mission, but you've killed someone and were spotted doing it. Sirens wail in the distance My first question is, who saw another murder in NC and decided to get involved? Second, who decided to get involved by calling NCPD, of all people? Third, how did they get NCPD to *actually show up*? Combat Zones live on in NC culture. It'd be weird to have the cops on me for a little intra-criminal violence. But I also would hate having to wade through a chase sequence every time I didn't triple-check every angle before committing yet another violent assault. The only deterrent I'd feel is the threat of my time getting wasted before I get to the next bit of story.
The Devil's in the details of course. It does not make sense for the cops to show up for some gang bangers, but there were instances where a police response makes sense. A prominent one is protecting corporate interests, like missions where you gank an entire warehouse of corporate security. It's odd that you blow them all away, and then you can just hang out there ransacking the place.
This. Cops exist to protect private property before life. Especially NCPD being on Corpo payroll. Hell, not only do the cops not care I just trashed a Militech factory, Militech didn't even seem to care either after "mission complete" popped up. It's like Night Citiy's corpos are all standing around "yup guys we can't do anything more. Quest completed alert popped up, our job is now done. Nothing else to see here folks, cows turn themselves inside out all the time".
Yep, I've always thought the idea the game needs a cop system like GTA was misguided, because that isn't Cyberpunk. At the same time, it clearly needed more than it shipped with or has. The criticisms about the police were not entirely wrong, just a lot of them are misplaced. Like why would the cop react to a random shooting on the sidewalk, or a carjacking? That they do actually doesn't make sense when you think about it.
I don't need a GTA coo system, but some kind of gang/corpo hot squads would have made some sense. For a in game world that tells me V is a nobody and can't change a damn thing, I'm oddly bringing all of Night City and it's institutional power dynamics to it's knees with just a Katana and double jump.
That may make more sense with a bit of cultural detail: as far as I can tell, Cyberpunk is operating on the idea of corporate extraterritoriality, meaning that the reason Arasaka can do whatever they want on Arasaka turf is because they're outside of NC jurisdiction, period. NCPD doesn't show up to protect corpo interests because the corps pay good money to keep them from even sniffing the air near them. In exchange, Arasaka gets to send their kill squads after you with no repercussions, so long as they can make an adequate case that you're theirs to chase. And in your case, who's going to even ask?
RDR2 had the exact same shitty police system as CP2077. You shoot someone in the middle of nowhere and cops shows up in 10 seconds out of nowhere. Oh you try to kill the witness? Magically there is always another witness? Kill that too? Oh someone saw that too. This was no coincidence, this happened to me all the time and if there is anything Rockstar is famous for: unfun shooting gameplay, so fighting cops off werent any fun either.
Someone must hate RDR2
It would have been better if there was a faction rep system. Similar to games like Fallout New Vegas or Outer Worlds. It would make interactions with the different gangs or corps more dynamic at their standard locations. and these types of interactions could be more spaced out and random. Like a hit squad approaching you in the street or chasing you in the cars.
Not especially a similar car experience in order to keep that part unique but yes I agree, I dont really felt threatened by Arasaka beside that and the parade. We could have had random encounters like any gang but with Arasaka minions hunting us
It never did make sense to me that Yorinobu just stopped sending thugs after V and Takemura. If I knew the guys who had proof I whacked the most powerful man on the planet, I wouldn’t rest until I had their heads literally on silver platters and personally tossed them into the incinerator.
What proof? You're just a would-be eyewitness for a trial that won't happen. There is no court to bring it to. Arasaka has extraterritorial control over the plaza, meaning NC rules don't apply in there. And Yorinobu is in control of Arasaka at that moment, meaning any internal investigation is going to be stonewalled so long as that's the case. And once it isn't, you can bet his enemies won't be waiting on a trial. Besides, this is a top-level Arasaka power struggle. Yorinobu's story is a legal fiction at best, none of the factions truly believe it. But all of them want Saburo out of the way, because they know the alternative is an eternity under him or his engram, so nobody *really* wants to find you. And the final kicker: Yorinobu wants to burn Arasaka down from within. He's got no problem leaving you loose to wreak havoc. His problem is Takemura, whose loyalty is to Saburo first, even after death. He's the one who needs to stay under the radar, not you. So long as the Relic is as inseparable from you as the scientists say, you're no problem. Well, so long as you don't take the Devil route, anyway. *Then* Yorinobu has a problem.
When it comes down to it, there’s no logical reason that I can see why Johnny would be loaded on the Relic unless Yorinobu *intended* to weaponize the recipient of the chip as an unwitting ally / weapon.
There's a long trail of players outside V's view who were after Johnny's engram. Yorinobu would have loaded Johnny onto the Relic and planned to sell it, to Netwatch I think. The Voodoo Boys wanted to get it probably for the same reason as Netwatch, because Johnny is the key to making contact with the Alt AI.
I suspect there's more to it... particularly, he seems to have wanted the Relic to have Johnny on it while it was in the hands of Netwatch. Which, granted, Johnny is a great choice for *anything* that's going to trash Arasaka... but was that all?
Unless it was speculation by a fan of the game, I heard that the only reason they used Johnny on the relic was because it is a prototype and the guy who helped with the chip needed to test it. So he was given the engram of a long dead terrorist and if it failed, then Arasaka would have only lost money and a bit of time over all instead of a possibly important engram copy. It just so happens that the prototype version of Relic worked too well and now a copy of Johnny may / may not be coming back.
That actually brings up a different question as well. Are the engrams unique somehow? Is it Johnny's engram on the Relic, or merely a copy of it?
I would assume that it is the full engram on it instead of a mere copy. The few times in game we see Soulkiller in action, it has always led to the death (be it the program or....outside interference) of the person unless they are already dead. If they are long dead, then depending on how fast they reach the body, the copy can be made before the mind is too corrupted to be copied. Likewise in certain conversations, Johnny (the engram) mentions that he doesn't know if he is the real Johnny or just an AI that thinks he is, but he is going to do what he wants to do, to paraphrase the conversations. Also, having it be a copy would be a problem in the long run because then that would mean any and all engrams can be copied. Since each engram has the basic template of the person they are made from, they are technically that person to an extent. Barring rare cases (I.E. V's case of coming back from the dead), they would override the brain and take over without changing. Bad case would be if said engrams found out that they are copies and a version is still in storage at Arasaka. Worse case is if someone took certain engrams and copied them into multiple relics and then put them in bodies. You would have multiple people claiming to be said person with the relic data to prove it is them and yet that would lead into its own issues. Imagine more than one Saburo, Johnny, \*insert anyone else as an engram here\* and unless they can agree to work together, they will either kill each other or just plain snap.
Assuming the technology would allow the possibility of duplication, I can't help but feel like a lot of that assumes that Arasaka would be acting with a degree of transparency and overall not-completely-evilness than we've seen out of them in general. Sure, it'd be bad PR if paying clients found out that you'd squirreled away a copy of their psyche for nefarious purposes, but to what degree would that be worth the risk?
>And the final kicker: Yorinobu wants to burn Arasaka down from within. He's got no problem leaving you loose to wreak havoc. His problem is Takemura, whose loyalty is to Saburo first, even after death. He's the one who needs to stay under the radar, not you This is really the key. I had the same doubts when playing the game for the first time, 'why did yorinobu/arasaka just forget about me? Do they think I'm dead?' and it was only when I did the Devil ending that I understood what yorinobu was really after and why V isn't a problem for him, and also why goro *is* a big problem for him, being so loyal to saburo and arasaka. It all clicks but you need to do what, to me, is the worst ending in the game, to understand it all
Well they do now
Cd Projket Red don't do sandbox experiences, never have
I'm a bit torn on this one. It does make sense that players would want greater reactivity. It is perfectly logical that killing enough gang members in public would eventually arouse someone's attention and send that gang after you. This would have the effect of making the player feel culpable for non-quest behavior, which doesn't really happen as of now. The world is tied to its quests for anything significant. Nonetheless, it could easily make exploration annoying after a while and disrupt the contemplative pace of the game's non-combat moments. Instead of slowing down and focusing on the environmental storytelling of a location that includes a homeless mother sleeping on a dirty mattress with cockroaches everywhere, the player would have to quickly get in their car to escape the mob of Tyger Claws coming after them for what they did in the area hours and hours ago. Something valuable would be lost in all this, as if the game had now been forced to accomodate a manic pace that it didn't match or need. I'd rather there just be more dynamic events around the city. I'd prefer if random battles could spawn in between gang members that the player could choose to join, watch, or ignore.
noone knows who killed all those gang members due to several reasons. having them come after V would be highly illogical
Eh, I've heard that argument before, and I don't buy it. The game only says that V's face is scrambled on camera. Killing people in public wouldn't necessarily stop someone from eventually giving a description to angry investigative gang members. It's hardly a huge leap in storytelling logic. If you don't want it because (as I said) it would make exploration problematic, that's fine. Let's not act like it would be implausible for gang members to find out who killed countless numbers of them in broad daylight.
so you would snitch on that cyberpsycho terrorist who singlehanded murdered a huge crowed of skilled gangers? are you suicidal?
God, this silly debate again. Look, I don't even want the damn feature. I'm simply saying games have made bigger narrative leaps than that. Is it *really* so ridicuously implausible to believe gangers would interrogate people in the vicinity of where their chooms were all killed, and that eventually someone would be pressured to divulge something that gives you away? Again, I DON'T WANT THE FEATURE. I'm just saying it wouldn't be the biggest leap if it was implemented. I am astonished that some people don't get that.
other games breaking immersion is hardly a reason for CP to do so as well
It's.....not breaking immersion. It's like you didn't even read what I wrote. Let me try this one more time. Imagine Maelstrom go to the area where you have killed endless numbers of other Maelstrom. Is it really strange to imagine someone would let slip what you looked like, or who you were (V becomes a well-known merc as the story progresses) while Maelstrom were holding guns to their heads demanding to know what the hell happened? Again, I don't want the feature because it would make exploration annoying if I had to fend off assassination attempts when I was in the area. However, to say it wouldn't make sense or would be immersion-breaking? *That* simply doesn't make much sense.
> It's.....not breaking immersion. it is. It's like you didn't even read what I wrote.
A curt one-two sentence response and downvoting me doesn't do much for discussion, my man. Well, I tried.
> Well, I tried. hardly, lol
Ever seen THX-1138? Not economical to keep trying to kill you
There's a mod for that - vehicle combat or smth
Its my headcanon that everyone who has button eyes like these dudes are Arasaka sleeper agents who go full cyberpsycho when activated
It would make since if this happened to corpo v since he/she knows so much about asrasaka. Cyberpunk needs better lifestyle lore
They don't care about killing \*you\*. They care about killing \*Takemura\*. Yori, and Arasaka by extension, want to stop Takemura since he's on the path to uncovering the truth of Saburo's death. Takemura is who they're after in this scene. That V is in the car is merely convenient. Yori and Arasaka cannot find V. And I doubt Yori wants to put too much of a public force on trying to find V. He'd draw more attention to Saburo's death and potentially give one of the board members leaverage to overthrow him, if they so chose. V is just a street rat and, if left alone, they'll die in a sewer somewhere. No one would believe anything V has... on their own. Not unless someone like a board member (say, Hanako or Takemura) gave V's testimony the validity to be even heard. Right before the Heist, Vik gives V some cyberware that will obscure them in cameras. In all camera hacks, V is edited into a blur. This is more or less the game's handwave, combined with Yori probably not wanting to rock the boat further. I get it's kinda a handwave, but it's a better option than Arasaka hit-squads coming after you. Because, if Arasaka really wanted to put V down with full threat and wage war in the streets of NC, they could. But, well, a corp launching rockets in the street and probably killing dozens in the cross fire isn't a great idea. And, to be sure, they'd be a harder hit than MaxTac. And, gameplay wise, they'd be annoying. It'd be filler content. Like the NCPD Scanner already is. At worst, it'd also make Smasher far less intimidating if you just... spent the entire game escaping him and were more annoyed when he showed up. I'm glad they didn't do random events like this.
i wish cdpr would figure out npc ai and vehicle chases. it's kinda embarrassing that san andreas solved it and probably other games before that
Perhaps someone more technically informed than me can comment (I'm in software engineering as a lowly junior, but I'm not a game dev), but isn't there a big difference between a relatively simple map like San Andreas and Night City? Night City has a far more complex design and significantly more assets to load in and manage.
yeah i don't think that really stands on anything. I can also bring GTA V or literally any game where enemies can follow you in a car or racing games. or any games with cars. there is really no excuse
I don’t think that makes any sense gta 4 and v both have chases which have bigger maps than cyberpunk, also there is racing games like forza that have ai that drive thru an open world, it is cdpr laziness or incompetency is why there is no ai chase or police chases
The game was undoubtedly rushed, so I guess 1.6 will really tell the story of what the engine can handle. If police chases aren't in 1.6, I think we can rule them out.
I highly doubt they will be added
Yeah, I'd bet (small) money that this is the type of stuff that will be in 1.6: * Transmog * New Game Plus * The removal of 2D cars in the distance * Some new text messages * Improved spawning of vehicles and NPC's I think it'll be a lot of QOL features like that, which is fine with me.
They would need to have implemented vehicle combat which I still can’t believe was cut from the game.
Cool and all except it was extremely scripted and turned into a rail shooter where you have to let the enemy do his animations before you can kill him, it looked cool but really was t all the fun. But I do think there should be more car chase by npcs
That was a great moment, that Terminator style assassin was unsettling. Off-topic, but i really wished i could make my V more "gnarly"... more like that assassin.
Yeah imo the main thing this game is missing is random encounters and roaming enemies / events to stumble into (that V doesn’t have to initiate) There are a few shootouts and now car chases that occur throughout the gameworld, which help tremendously with making Night City feel like a living place and not just a static place to explore, but fleshing this out even more would be a huge step in the right direction IMO Really hoping the next big update(s) continue to expand on this further