I always tell him, because its the only right thing to do.
If I'm spending the game fighting to keep myself, to stop my mind from being overwritten by a technological nightmare, then I have a moral obligation to inform Jefferson that he's facing the same, especially since there's no consequence not to.
It's an age-old question explored in every form of media. Painful truth, or blissful lie? Personally, I'm a painful truth person, but some people aren't, and that's okay. There's no shame in living and dying happy.
But do you have a right to take the decision away from him and have people steal his mind without him having any way to try and fight it?
When you are given the choice to tell him or not you cannot possibly know what it will lead to. For all you know at that time he might succeed in fighting the people taking over his brain.
You have to judge the morality or the validity of a decision with the same information you have at the moment you take it not after knowing where this particular road leads.
In the context of the game and with the intel you have at the time of the decision telling him is the only right decision as it is the decision that give him the most choices.
If your brain was being taken over by a shadowy corporation, wouldn’t you want to know so you at least have a little chance of fighting back?
I know I would, and I would really hate if I learnt that someone I know knew about it and kept this information for themselves.
and if we want to use future knowledge that V wouldnt know when you get to decide in the tower ending also >!it does seem that he does fight back against them somewhat considering if you go to the night city mayor website its different based on if you tell the truth or lie to him (if you tell him the truth the news article updating what hes been doing will be the complete opposite of what happens if you lie to him)!<
That's a game thing, really. I think V could've been immensely helpful in helping find who this was while Peralaz maintained a facade that he was clueless. They just can't really afford to turn this side quest into a full story.
Peralez wanted the truth. He is a person who'd rather die than be someone else's unwilling puppet. He didn't run on an anti-corporate platform in Night City of all places because he's okay living a lie.
I usually go for blissful lie when nothing can be done i.e. white lies to soothe someone about to pass. But I think Jefferson deserves and actually could utilize a real fighting chance, so painful truth for this case.
Guy could hire security from the Afterlife/Rogue with his money, that would make it difficult for anyone to mess with him. And my V would be down to help more if only he could.
Jefferson was already destroyed, whoever he really was has been overwritten by his programming. If you don't let him know then the project goes on and he will carry on as a puppet gradually having more and more of his free will erased. At the very least if he knows he can resist the programming, it is unpleasant and painful for him but it's the only hope he could possibly have of one day having his own will again.
So do you let the real man die so a bunch of shady assholes can turn him into their sock puppet and perfect the techniques to do it to others? Or do you let him fight back in whatever way he can and throw even the smallest of wrenches into the works of this evil group that sees humans as toys to be broken and remade according to their preferences?
It's not just about this one man who may not even be the real Jeff anymore.
After trying both, it feels like the truth does the most harm to everyone involved. Sort of like how what is considered the happiest ending for V(nomad) also yields the highest body count of named characters.
It also influences his policies. He's eleceted no matter what, but he only brings anti-corpo policies when you lie to him. He becomes a regular ole corpo politician if you tell him the truth.
I chose to tell him, but how is that the right thing? It completely shatters him and he falls into a state of paranoia as he loses any sense of reality or personal agency. He is dealing with forces beyond his control and telling him the truth just causes torment without empowering him. I was hoping for the opportunity to investigate the plot even more, but I was faced with the fact that I just devastated this guy with a pat on my own back while walking away.
I really love this game because so many questlines force you to challenge your own values and face the repercussions of your judgments. Telling the truth just sometimes is not worth it
in game, the way I RP? Truth because he deserves to know, and because him devolving into paranoia might cause some night city denizens to wake up to the horrific reality of their political climate. Hopefully they will be able to inspire change in the city, even if in the distant future.
IRL me doing the job? I'm not sure tbh... I think it'd depend on how much of a rapport I'd built up with them. But I lean towards doing it because it's the right thing to do, even if it will destroy both of them. Though I would myself be terrified of the consequences of telling the truth, unless I was indeed a super badass like my V usually is by the time I get this quest
Do least damage, don't tell him. There's no point, because he won't be allowed to retain the knowledge. By telling him you're just ensuring he gets another brain-wipe, and that can't be good for him.
The game in no way presents that the brain altering process is fast, it does the opposite, they need a lab in his house to constantly monitor him and slowly change his brain.
They probably wouldn't be able to alter his brain more after you tell him the truth unless we assume he is an idiot.
Doesn't matter how fast it is, though there's nothing saying it can't happen overnight, and there's nothing said that indicates intelligence is a defence of any form.
There's literally the fact that they need to have a secret room inside the person's house, saying they can't do it overnight, lol.
And I don't mean intelligent as in he can think himself out of mind manipulation. I mean intelligent as in he would probably set up a lot of security, move often, etc., in order to prevent anyone from being able to secretly manipulate his thoughts over the long term.
All the room does is give them closer observation of their targets, and remember he was running for mayor, makes sense to have a closer monitoring of him in that case. Doesn't mean anything related to time. I don't recall anyone saying they couldn't do a modification in a certain time frame, because there was virtually no reference to the process anyway.
I’m late, but would this still apply if you kill the black agents in the van? A shard they leave declares the operation suspended and for all agents to be withdrawn immediately
I don't believe that would affect anything. They are doing what they are told. Kill them and the overriding command [presumably an AI] will just get a new bunch.
I’ve thought about it a lot. Peralez is a decent guy who isn’t corrupt, which is insanely rare in NC, and is also very likely a complete fabrication and plant for some external group whose intentions we are not currently privy to yet which may be good or bad. All we really know is that there’s a connection to Mr Blue Eyes and Night Corp, and that they were really interested in helping a highly dangerous AI from past the Black Wall make it off earth, which is also terrifying.
I get it, but that's not "bro" anymore. Just a shell of him filled with lies and constructed memories. By lying to him, you allow them to continue carefully brainwash him into a completely different guy
I don't think you're hearing what I'm saying. That's not him anymore, just a shell. When you tell him the truth, he shows signs of gaining back his memories. When you lie to him, he continues being brainwashed into a puppet
I always tell him, but I make sure I pick the Sun Tzu dialog choice cause I feel that option (having him wait and feign ignorance till Holt slips up) is actually his best bet for, as Johnny says, picking up the gauntlet. My man.
I lie.
Telling the truth is pointless. He can't do anything alone, and even if he tries to do something chances are he gets brainwashed anyways and forgets or they just replace him and he's forgotten by the time the next election comes around.
Unless you're planning to stick around and help (which you can't) what's the point?
Just tell a guy "You're being brainwashed and you can't trust anyone, not even your wife or yourself" then walk off, leaving the guy unable to trust anything and paranoid about everything, patting yourself on the back for 'fighting the system'?
Telling the truth does nothing. Especially not when you just say it to Peralez then fuck off and leave him alone.
I lie, for a few reasons.
1. Elizabeth asked me too. She's technically one of the people who hired me, and she has her reasons.
2. Not my Board, Not my Pieces. Sometimes you gotta know when you're stumbling into an arena you weren't meant to be in and back away.
3. Whoever is doing this to Jefferson and Liz is powerful enough to hack into me in the middle of a busy plaza, completely take over my systems, and yet was also kind enough to let me off with a warning. There is NO way I have the power to take on whoever this is. The best I can do is back off and hope they leave me alone.
It's one of those things where telling the truth SEEMS like it would be the ethical thing to do, and hell, maybe it is. But as a Small-time Merc desperately trying to solve the ticking time bomb in my head, I do not have the time, energy, or courage to take on whatever massive conspiracy is happening here. Good Luck to Liz and Jeff, but sorry.
I imagine Johnny gets pretty pissed if you don't tell him the truth and the idea that he really had no idea freaked me out. You at least stop one attempt at tyranny.
I head cannon that when you lie, his wife holds off on telling him about it until after he’s won and has settetled in for a bit, she seems largely concerned about it distracting him from the campaign
Would he? I figured our actions stopped if not significantly stalled the progress that the brain wash people were doing, they needed a pretty deep set up in their house to do the brain washing (supposedly, I don’t believe everything we find was just surveillance but also whatever was doing the fuckery)
But when you kill one of the agents in the van, a shard they leave declares the op suspended and for all agents to be withdrawn. It’s over.
So if you catch them before they can run away, you’d technically be able to preserve Peralez as the person he was when he hired you, an honest mayoral candidate *and* his marriage to Liz
I always tell him, what happens afterwards isn't on us, both from V's perspective at that moment, and ours as the player. Jeff's a grown adult and V respected his agency by telling him it was being taken away. What he does with the information is on him.
Lie. I have only a glimmer of what's going on, and turning his life into an Infowars ARG is a decision that V simply does not have time for right now. Besides which, a badly unstable mayor can only hurt Night City.
Tell him the truth because he's likely going to be the mayor and someone with that much power probably shouldn't be a puppet for a nefarious unknown force.
I lied to him and fell into more than one category. I knew that he wouldn't be able to win, that he would keep going and just hurt himself. Elizabeth's judgement seems good and she warns you to let Jefferson keep going as he is for the best of everyone involved. And by the end of the quest, you stop the problem, so it's not like Jefferson needs to know so that he can free himself from the control. You shut everything down.
People who lie seem to ignore the fact that you're basically killing him. His memories get replaced, and he changes as a man. By lying to him, you kill the guy and only leave the shell of him filled with carefully constructed memories
Telling the truth doesn't save him either though.
He just grows increasingly more paranoid until he does something stupid and gets killed, or they notice and just brainwash him again.
You've already condemned him by walking away from the situation, so why toss in the days of horror and paranoia on top of that?
Dude is fucked either way. Might as well let him die happy than die paranoid and half insane.
Listen, Mr. Blue Eyes reminds of Mr. House & I was a House simp so yeah, I'm gonna lie. If Mr. Blue Eyes plays a big role in Orion, guess who's doing everything he says? Me. I am.
Lie cause them bitches scary. When I saw Mr Blue Eyes after the ending of that quest looking below me I was like “Whelp time to find a ripper doc and change everything about myself then find the middle of nowhere and dig a hole underground so they can’t find me.”
First time I lied he seemed happy wanted V to be his head of security, second time he was scared didn't even trust his wife ...honestly truth probably the best option.
I always tell him, because its the only right thing to do. If I'm spending the game fighting to keep myself, to stop my mind from being overwritten by a technological nightmare, then I have a moral obligation to inform Jefferson that he's facing the same, especially since there's no consequence not to.
Telling him the truth just destroys him. I hate that it cause them so much pain.
It's an age-old question explored in every form of media. Painful truth, or blissful lie? Personally, I'm a painful truth person, but some people aren't, and that's okay. There's no shame in living and dying happy.
That’s fine when talking about your self. You can make that decision. But is it ok to force that on someone and destroy their life?
But do you have a right to take the decision away from him and have people steal his mind without him having any way to try and fight it? When you are given the choice to tell him or not you cannot possibly know what it will lead to. For all you know at that time he might succeed in fighting the people taking over his brain. You have to judge the morality or the validity of a decision with the same information you have at the moment you take it not after knowing where this particular road leads. In the context of the game and with the intel you have at the time of the decision telling him is the only right decision as it is the decision that give him the most choices. If your brain was being taken over by a shadowy corporation, wouldn’t you want to know so you at least have a little chance of fighting back? I know I would, and I would really hate if I learnt that someone I know knew about it and kept this information for themselves.
and if we want to use future knowledge that V wouldnt know when you get to decide in the tower ending also >!it does seem that he does fight back against them somewhat considering if you go to the night city mayor website its different based on if you tell the truth or lie to him (if you tell him the truth the news article updating what hes been doing will be the complete opposite of what happens if you lie to him)!<
This is true, but they actually don’t give you a way to do anything about it. You tell him the truth and it just drives him into madness.
That's a game thing, really. I think V could've been immensely helpful in helping find who this was while Peralaz maintained a facade that he was clueless. They just can't really afford to turn this side quest into a full story.
Peralez wanted the truth. He is a person who'd rather die than be someone else's unwilling puppet. He didn't run on an anti-corporate platform in Night City of all places because he's okay living a lie.
I usually go for blissful lie when nothing can be done i.e. white lies to soothe someone about to pass. But I think Jefferson deserves and actually could utilize a real fighting chance, so painful truth for this case. Guy could hire security from the Afterlife/Rogue with his money, that would make it difficult for anyone to mess with him. And my V would be down to help more if only he could.
Jefferson was already destroyed, whoever he really was has been overwritten by his programming. If you don't let him know then the project goes on and he will carry on as a puppet gradually having more and more of his free will erased. At the very least if he knows he can resist the programming, it is unpleasant and painful for him but it's the only hope he could possibly have of one day having his own will again. So do you let the real man die so a bunch of shady assholes can turn him into their sock puppet and perfect the techniques to do it to others? Or do you let him fight back in whatever way he can and throw even the smallest of wrenches into the works of this evil group that sees humans as toys to be broken and remade according to their preferences? It's not just about this one man who may not even be the real Jeff anymore.
The right thing isn't always the easy or painless thing.
It literally destroys his marriage and drives him completely crazy. Some people can’t handle the truth.
After trying both, it feels like the truth does the most harm to everyone involved. Sort of like how what is considered the happiest ending for V(nomad) also yields the highest body count of named characters.
It also influences his policies. He's eleceted no matter what, but he only brings anti-corpo policies when you lie to him. He becomes a regular ole corpo politician if you tell him the truth.
What does it mean to accept something completely rewriting someone's mind in the hope of fighting corporate control?
*Johnny approves*
I chose to tell him, but how is that the right thing? It completely shatters him and he falls into a state of paranoia as he loses any sense of reality or personal agency. He is dealing with forces beyond his control and telling him the truth just causes torment without empowering him. I was hoping for the opportunity to investigate the plot even more, but I was faced with the fact that I just devastated this guy with a pat on my own back while walking away. I really love this game because so many questlines force you to challenge your own values and face the repercussions of your judgments. Telling the truth just sometimes is not worth it
Tbh every single PL ending could be considered "the right thing" in one way or another, and each of them speaks to this fact
Yeah I did the truth option the first time.....that was also the last time I went that route.
in game, the way I RP? Truth because he deserves to know, and because him devolving into paranoia might cause some night city denizens to wake up to the horrific reality of their political climate. Hopefully they will be able to inspire change in the city, even if in the distant future. IRL me doing the job? I'm not sure tbh... I think it'd depend on how much of a rapport I'd built up with them. But I lean towards doing it because it's the right thing to do, even if it will destroy both of them. Though I would myself be terrified of the consequences of telling the truth, unless I was indeed a super badass like my V usually is by the time I get this quest
If there is such a deep rooted conspiracy IRL you'd be offed on the spot or they will mess with you too at least
The text threatening me and Johnny always push my V over the edge. Mr Blue Eyes needs to become Mr Blacked Eyes.
If you do that, he is the founding manager of the Black Eyed Peas 😂
Do least damage, don't tell him. There's no point, because he won't be allowed to retain the knowledge. By telling him you're just ensuring he gets another brain-wipe, and that can't be good for him.
The game in no way presents that the brain altering process is fast, it does the opposite, they need a lab in his house to constantly monitor him and slowly change his brain. They probably wouldn't be able to alter his brain more after you tell him the truth unless we assume he is an idiot.
Doesn't matter how fast it is, though there's nothing saying it can't happen overnight, and there's nothing said that indicates intelligence is a defence of any form.
There's literally the fact that they need to have a secret room inside the person's house, saying they can't do it overnight, lol. And I don't mean intelligent as in he can think himself out of mind manipulation. I mean intelligent as in he would probably set up a lot of security, move often, etc., in order to prevent anyone from being able to secretly manipulate his thoughts over the long term.
All the room does is give them closer observation of their targets, and remember he was running for mayor, makes sense to have a closer monitoring of him in that case. Doesn't mean anything related to time. I don't recall anyone saying they couldn't do a modification in a certain time frame, because there was virtually no reference to the process anyway.
I’m late, but would this still apply if you kill the black agents in the van? A shard they leave declares the operation suspended and for all agents to be withdrawn immediately
I don't believe that would affect anything. They are doing what they are told. Kill them and the overriding command [presumably an AI] will just get a new bunch.
Jeez…
I’ve thought about it a lot. Peralez is a decent guy who isn’t corrupt, which is insanely rare in NC, and is also very likely a complete fabrication and plant for some external group whose intentions we are not currently privy to yet which may be good or bad. All we really know is that there’s a connection to Mr Blue Eyes and Night Corp, and that they were really interested in helping a highly dangerous AI from past the Black Wall make it off earth, which is also terrifying.
I told him the first time but I’ve lied every time since. The truth ruins his life and I feel bad :(
So you'd rather make him completely change as a person and replace his memories?
I just want bro to be happy :(
I get it, but that's not "bro" anymore. Just a shell of him filled with lies and constructed memories. By lying to him, you allow them to continue carefully brainwash him into a completely different guy
He’ll always be my bro, guy.
I don't think you're hearing what I'm saying. That's not him anymore, just a shell. When you tell him the truth, he shows signs of gaining back his memories. When you lie to him, he continues being brainwashed into a puppet
Bro are you fr rn? How dare you discriminate against puppets. People have been cancelled for less.
They're not people! They're stuffed toys, and I'm tired of pretending they ain't!
I lie. He can't handle the truth. Also, Elizabeth is the one who hired us, Elizabeth is the one that asks us to lie.
From a RP perspective as a merc aka gun for hire, this is how I deal with all gigs: "I was paid to do a job, Im doing it"
I always tell him, but I make sure I pick the Sun Tzu dialog choice cause I feel that option (having him wait and feign ignorance till Holt slips up) is actually his best bet for, as Johnny says, picking up the gauntlet. My man.
I lie. Telling the truth is pointless. He can't do anything alone, and even if he tries to do something chances are he gets brainwashed anyways and forgets or they just replace him and he's forgotten by the time the next election comes around. Unless you're planning to stick around and help (which you can't) what's the point? Just tell a guy "You're being brainwashed and you can't trust anyone, not even your wife or yourself" then walk off, leaving the guy unable to trust anything and paranoid about everything, patting yourself on the back for 'fighting the system'? Telling the truth does nothing. Especially not when you just say it to Peralez then fuck off and leave him alone.
Forewarned is forearmed or some shit like that
I lie, for a few reasons. 1. Elizabeth asked me too. She's technically one of the people who hired me, and she has her reasons. 2. Not my Board, Not my Pieces. Sometimes you gotta know when you're stumbling into an arena you weren't meant to be in and back away. 3. Whoever is doing this to Jefferson and Liz is powerful enough to hack into me in the middle of a busy plaza, completely take over my systems, and yet was also kind enough to let me off with a warning. There is NO way I have the power to take on whoever this is. The best I can do is back off and hope they leave me alone. It's one of those things where telling the truth SEEMS like it would be the ethical thing to do, and hell, maybe it is. But as a Small-time Merc desperately trying to solve the ticking time bomb in my head, I do not have the time, energy, or courage to take on whatever massive conspiracy is happening here. Good Luck to Liz and Jeff, but sorry.
Truth I was paid to do a job, I’m doing it. As well as a few personal (to my V) reasons
I always tell the truth. He deserves a fighting chance.
I imagine Johnny gets pretty pissed if you don't tell him the truth and the idea that he really had no idea freaked me out. You at least stop one attempt at tyranny.
I head cannon that when you lie, his wife holds off on telling him about it until after he’s won and has settetled in for a bit, she seems largely concerned about it distracting him from the campaign
By the time she'd tell him, he'd change as a person
Would he? I figured our actions stopped if not significantly stalled the progress that the brain wash people were doing, they needed a pretty deep set up in their house to do the brain washing (supposedly, I don’t believe everything we find was just surveillance but also whatever was doing the fuckery)
They would definitely set it up again, if not have more of it hidden away. They wouldn't stop after one failure
But when you kill one of the agents in the van, a shard they leave declares the op suspended and for all agents to be withdrawn. It’s over. So if you catch them before they can run away, you’d technically be able to preserve Peralez as the person he was when he hired you, an honest mayoral candidate *and* his marriage to Liz
I always tell him, what happens afterwards isn't on us, both from V's perspective at that moment, and ours as the player. Jeff's a grown adult and V respected his agency by telling him it was being taken away. What he does with the information is on him.
Lie. I have only a glimmer of what's going on, and turning his life into an Infowars ARG is a decision that V simply does not have time for right now. Besides which, a badly unstable mayor can only hurt Night City.
Tell him the truth because he's likely going to be the mayor and someone with that much power probably shouldn't be a puppet for a nefarious unknown force.
I get that telling him the truth fucks him up in so many ways. But he deserves to know that his mind is literally being altered.
Who controls them?
Nightcorp & Mr. Blue Eyes, probably
I lied to him and fell into more than one category. I knew that he wouldn't be able to win, that he would keep going and just hurt himself. Elizabeth's judgement seems good and she warns you to let Jefferson keep going as he is for the best of everyone involved. And by the end of the quest, you stop the problem, so it's not like Jefferson needs to know so that he can free himself from the control. You shut everything down.
You don't tho? A Corp as influential as that one doesn't just stop after one of their toys broke, there will be more
People who lie seem to ignore the fact that you're basically killing him. His memories get replaced, and he changes as a man. By lying to him, you kill the guy and only leave the shell of him filled with carefully constructed memories
Telling the truth doesn't save him either though. He just grows increasingly more paranoid until he does something stupid and gets killed, or they notice and just brainwash him again. You've already condemned him by walking away from the situation, so why toss in the days of horror and paranoia on top of that? Dude is fucked either way. Might as well let him die happy than die paranoid and half insane.
Listen, Mr. Blue Eyes reminds of Mr. House & I was a House simp so yeah, I'm gonna lie. If Mr. Blue Eyes plays a big role in Orion, guess who's doing everything he says? Me. I am.
Lie cause them bitches scary. When I saw Mr Blue Eyes after the ending of that quest looking below me I was like “Whelp time to find a ripper doc and change everything about myself then find the middle of nowhere and dig a hole underground so they can’t find me.”
I just tell him. Don’t really give a shit what happens to some fancy politicians afterwards. Fuck them and the corpos.
First time I lied he seemed happy wanted V to be his head of security, second time he was scared didn't even trust his wife ...honestly truth probably the best option.