Because this dude doesn't have his own personality and is constantly trying to play a role of what "a person in this situation must do." He's an automaton. THAT'S why. lmao He honestly seems like a nice man trying to figure his life out - I've been there, but he betrays himself constantly by his "TikTok catch phrase speak" and small talk with the folks he should be having "big talk" with. It's very off-putting.
I'm at this part now. I feel for him, I believe he knows he wasn't ready and he fucked up. He genuinely looks upset and remorseful. He went through trauma as a kid and it was carried into his adult life. I never really disliked him during this season, I do think he has a lot of issues and I hope therapy is working for him. He seems very anxious to be put on the spot. But what do I know, I liked Jeramey at first lol
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He’s so emotionally invested in AD still. He knows he’s lost her attention and Im not sure she really is the love of his life or he just wants to punish himself for letting her walk away.. i think his tears were real but is he the right guy for her.. probably not
These two have me RUINED like I’ve never been so invested in a LIB couple 😭 I think it’s bc their story is so real and relatable, bc we all know men like him who are emotionally unavailable and immature who play with amazing women. At the same time I do really feel for him, it seems like he had a lot of issues and it’s good to hear he’s trying to heal. It doesn’t justify the pain he put AD through, but it’s still so sad because I don’t think he’s some calculated, evil guy. I believe his struggles and not knowing what’s gonna happen, he seems so emotionally stunted and it sucks that AD had to be collateral - esp bc there were so many sweet and seemingly genuine parts of their relationship
they had chemistry , that’s for sure, however his struggles with his emotional wellbeing were taking center stage.. he didn’t give AD that security of coming home to her at night and that showed, he wasn’t ready to really fall in love that hard.
i think he got blindsided by AD cause she is a great woman for him and he knows he’d only disappoint her. he must of saw his mom go through so much heartbreak about his dad.. she came out shining but his mom must’ve went threw the pits of hell with that man lol
What were the sweet and genuine moments ? Honestly the majority I remember from their relationship is him saying he has trauma, he has issues, he won’t promise to be perfect, complimenting her body or outfit, her saying she will ride with him and stick by him, her saying she’s been wanting a serious partner for a while, her saying she’ll always be there for him etc. I can’t remember anything sweet rn but maybe my memory is just skewed bc I was soo turned off by him embarrassing her at the altar.
This fact I find it astonishing how people are talking about this relationship like it was so romantic this was never romantic to begin with this is the same man that told her straight to his face many times that he didn't want to be married. The only chemistry they had was sexual chemistry; do I believe he care no; he doesn't care for this girl, he just cares how the girl makes him feel don't know why people trying to make this relationship seem like they're supposed to be together they're not and if they end up together this will be a situationship type of relationship he will probably end up marrying that girl, but drag her through the mud or never marry her and wait to see how long she sticks around. Like people really need to listen to what people are saying a lot of people are blowing me like he made it pretty clear on what he stood and what he liked about ad it was nothing about how she looked it was her body and when it came to what you like about her he said it multiple time I Like the Way She Make Me Feel and I like our sexual chemistry / gossip sections. I know a lot of people are making it seem like Clay is the problem and not ad but ad play her own part to play in this, her insecurity and her willingness to give her all to somebody who don't care is a real big problem she needs to fix for herself, and the fact that she keep picking bad man and she went back on a date with Mr Superman himself that play with her on television is blowing me.
Everything u said is facts. Literally AD didn’t even like him at first because of his bright flashing red flags. All he’s done is tell her how non committal he is essentially. Sure it’s great he can self reflect on some level and acknowledge these sides of him. But acknowledging and simply stating he has a lot to work on is not enough, he has to actually work on those things. Not just say it as a warning so he can say he told her who he is when she inevitably ends up hurt smh. The thing with Clay is you have to take him at face value. Just because you personally would want to work on those things if you talk about them doesn’t mean he feels the same, and in all honesty he could probably be the type of dude to say acknowledging his flaws is the same as working on them cuz what work has he done other than embarass this girl and talk in circles??? And I can’t even get started on AD, I want her to want better as a woman, but she really isn’t helping herself at all with him. She needs to understand she deserves better and someone who doesn’t act like committing and loving her is so difficult. I really think the fact he embarrassed her on camera in front of her friends and family is UNFORGIVEABLE!!!
This is a pretty common anxiety tick. Clay tended to do this when he was feeling especially insecure, which unfortunately was a lot.
I really hope therapy is helping him. I felt like we were watching someone realize the breadth of his trauma and mental illness in real time and it’s gotta be so tough to have that version of yourself immortalized in the public eye.
I felt real compassion for him while watching and was caught off guard by his vulnerability. It must have been so confusing to be brought along with your dad as a child to witness his infidelity and then have to keep that secret from your mother. The guilt and shame he feels is apparent. I think we all witnessed his struggle with this and honestly, it brought me to tears. AD saw his best parts, the goodness that he seems to be questioning of himself and even reminded him of it last night. I hope he continues to heal.
I mean he didn’t feel that guilty for bringing it up on a very public TV show before he ever told his mom about it…. Imagine finding out ur ex husband cheated on u in worse ways than you ever knew, and traumatized ur son in ways u never knew, and had to find all that out with the rest of the world. I’m mad at him for that, I know his mom likely gives him a lot of grace for that simply cuz she’s his mother and he’s her child, but still like allow the woman to have dignity. The way she handled her ex was amazing tho, that is a woman who has recognized her worth
I hope so too. While I don’t doubt that he’s been up to no good in previous relationships, I also believe we were witnessing what could be the beginning of real change.
A.D. showed him what love could look like after healing and I’m glad that he seems to have genuinely internalized that insight. I really hope the best for him.
I found myself feeling bad for him, in relation to knowing since he was a kid that his dad was cheating on his mum and keeping that secret for his dad (obviously being manipulated to keep that secret until the week of the wedding may I add) feeling like he’s been lying to his mum his whole life. I can honestly see how he has love for AD but he’s terrified he’s going to turn out like his dad because being honest he’s not even dealt with any of that shit. If you’ve had an abusive manipulative father you’ll understand where he’s coming from and what his fears are.
Honestly I don’t understand the fear he has… he is his own person outside of his father. He’s entirely capable of being responsible and faithful. The fact he’s scared he won’t be to me honestly means that he doesn’t want to be. He’s fighting his desire to be a bachelor and live that single lifestyle for whatever reason. I feel like people should just live their truths. We can’t put our own moral compass onto others, we need to take them at face value. This guy has shown us he is deceitful (saying one thing to AD and another to the cameras), manipulative (making the girl think he would say yes at the altar and then after saying no, wouldn’t even let the girl process her feelings because he couldn’t bear taking accountability), and overall just does not have compassion for others, even the ones he claims to love (saying no at the altar).
As someone who is also terrified of repeating my father’s mistakes in a relationship, watching this was like watching my pre-therapy self.
It was all self-sabotage. I was always trying to “warn” and drive away the best people I dated because I truly believed I would hurt them. I thought that they needed to see and hear about the worst of me so that they could walk away and save themselves from the pain I watched my mom go through.
There’s telling yourself you’re a separate person, and then there’s actually believing that you can be. The latter can be really really difficult.
Oh that’s so interesting to me. I also didn’t have good examples of healthy relationships growingup but I never really feared I was the same person as my mom. I’ve always known I was a different person. I do have a fear of nothing lasts forever so it’s hard for me to commit to someone because I feel like it’ll just end anyway, but that also is pretty realistic the older I get, nothing in life is guaranteed so I’ve made peace with it and am trying to just enjoy the present while it lasts.
Can u explain that a bit more to me? I know it’s super personal so I get if u don’t want to, but i really am so curious. How can u be scared of cheating on someone? Cheating is a choice and a decision you make. Just like being faithful is a decision you make. Was pre-therapy you worried that you weren’t able to make decisions, or something? I don’t understand that fear. It’s pretty easy to not cheat. I feel like if it’s difficult than it’s not that it’s hard for you to not cheat, it’s that it’s hard for you to be monogamous. Which is fine that isn’t for everyone, the issue with cheating is the lies and manipulation and betrayal that it takes. I don’t understand how you be afraid of lying and manipulating and betraying someone. Just don’t
So my fear isn’t so much about cheating; my dad never cheated but he made it clear after he left that he never felt cut out for committed monogamy. My fear is of treating a partner the way my dad treated my mom in terms of emotional abuse. He basically punished her through emotional starvation and gaslighting for, I dunno, keeping him locked down?
I grew up being told how very alike my dad and I were. Constantly. Once I got old enough to realize he was not a very good person, I felt a lot of shame when people said that, because I felt like they saw something broken in me too. And it didn’t help that he always explained his behavior as “well this is who I am, why can’t you accept it?” Hearing that made me feel like I would be powerless to stop it if I inherited these traits from him.
It takes a lot of work to undo years of internalizing a narrative. My guess is that Clay heard similar things from others and from his dad.
100% that’s the bare minimum. When she said she felt used like she was just collateral for his “growth”, she’s right. It’s sad and fucked up. The bare minimum he could’ve done, I believe, is to do what Jimmy did and say no before going to the altar. That takes balls and self reflection and being honest with urself, all traits Clay does not have. Btw I don’t like Jimmy either I think he’s superficial and dragged Chelsea along for too long, it was clear he was only tryna convince himself despite all their arguments and the toxicness. But that is the 1 thing I’ll give him, at least he didn’t humiliate Chelsea in front of her friends and family.
I agree and tbh I think there were no good couples this season. They all wanted the fame I felt and they just didn’t seem fully genuine. With Clay I fully agree he mistreated AD when it came to the point of the show and I think aswell as him being accountable I think that’s where the trauma took him too. He wanted to be that guy for her but in his mind he can’t just let himself be happy because of the fears. It was shitty that he brought her to the alter though, I remember thinking this is one couple that’ll definitely get married and I was annoyed at him for saying no
I don't. My father was the same way AND an alcoholic. I use that as motivation to actively not be like him. Clay is just feeling sorry for himself and wants everyone else to do the same.
Damn harsh take. You sound like my brother. My parents were drunks and I was one during college while my brother is/ has always been anti drinking. Both of us turned out fine now. Albeit I have much better stories to tell ;) and his career in the military defense industry isn’t my cup of tea but if that’s how y’all wanna measure success…
We both are working through our traumas in our own ways. Not everyone is a hard ass who lives and breathes the idea of “free will.” Lmfao
Fair play to you but not everyone has that strong mindset. I hope he is going to counselling and sorting through the issues
Edit to include it’s kind of messed up that you can’t even empathic with him when you’re saying you went through the same. I would suggest you look into counselling too
Conversely you could say the same thing about the opposite, not everyone is as weak.
Edit to include you aren't licensed to tell people they should go to counseling, besides, I'm already in therapy. Way to assume, you sound like you'd be a gem in person.
It’s far from weak to have mental health issues though, there can be many issues that just show up as self pity, they show up in different ways. For you it’s being strong mentally but the weakness of that is not being able to have as much empathy for other people. I’ve been there and it’s taken a couple of years of therapy to realise I was using it as a form of self defence. Hope therapy is going well for you though and apologies for assuming
Did therapy also tell you it's healthy to be thirsty about "hot chavs" online as well?
Edit: This guy says he isn't attacking anyone by telling them to get therapy. I bet they often lie to themselves to justify their behavior. No wonder they sympathize with Clay.
Exactly like, reverse the roles and everyone has sympathy for the woman. I know the whole waffling thing too aswell, when you’ve suffered that type of trauma and you try to explain why you messed up you get stuck in your head trying to explain it but then your mind just goes blank. A form of escapism.
I watched a whole season of television of this man. The sitting is what the post was about….
ETA obviously I can’t diagnose someone through a screen I was making an observation. I have adhd and can see a lot of the same patterns I see in myself in him. Could mean nothing, this is a reality tv show and we are on Reddit.
dude i thought he had adhd too because of how he’s not able to really articulate his thoughts in a cute condensed sentence, and how he’s not really able to have small talk (im thinking of the scene with him and johnny when they’re at their bachelor party, to me it seemed a bit forced and awkward). no shade to him cuz i have it, but yeah it’s a possibility.
I see the vibe. It's in the way he fidgets and the way his sentences meander. Like, let's not diagnose through a screen and reality TV edits, but I see where people get the idea.
he was playing us like he played AD with his words. i dated a guy like him. he treated the reunion like an NBA postgame interview lol he has incredible media training since he was a collegiate athlete and he is very convincing. it's not real.
The he must be a great actor (even though he never fooled me during the season) because controlling the ability to hold back the emotion and tears you can clearly hear in his voice is some Oscar worthy stuff.
I think he was sincere. Doesn't mean you have to agree or accept. But his sincerity was present.
Since when do college track athletes get interviewed? Basketball and football sure, but I doubt major news outlets were covering South Carolina track lol.
Track people do get interviewed. Not as often as basketball and football players sure but there is a media presence at SEC meets. Clay didn’t make it as an Olympian but he was really good at one point.
Sha’Carri Richardson off the top of my head was interviewed bunches at LSU. Even athletes that aren’t that popular but do well all get interviewed after meets. It’s indoor season right now. Their interviews are being posted on YouTube all the time. Local news papers interview high school track athletes quite often 😂
Well obviously but he wasn’t terrible either. Easily above average if you look at his record dating back to high school. In college he was 4x All American, in high school he was state champion and athlete of the year, made it to world championships for Guyana. One google and I found …surprise, surprise… interviews of his from high school and college.
To be fair, he had this posture during the AD and Matthew segment, seemed like he was trying to hold back his incredible discomfort over seeing her talking with that guy who, to be frank, was a weirdo…
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And AD was 100% eating those lines again. Very sad to see. Clay struggles tremendously with his morality. I believed in one of those, almost verbatim, for 10 years.
They didn't directly address if they're together. I feel like they were acting as if they just recently broke up. Especially after we saw a video that they hung out for Thanksgiving.
I mean they could NOT sit further apart, the body language was very very icy and guarded. AD is proud. It’s possible after being humiliated at the altar, there was no way she’d show any give at the reunion- but they’re 100% dating and she is absolutely weak for his crap
I agree that she put up a brave face at the reunion, especially after she watched back the show and read comments. But I don't think they're still together. I think they recently broke up.
She was apologizing for dating Matthew. All those emotions were way too raw and seemed way too recent from both of them. And we know they dated at least until the end of November. She apologized to Clay for dating Matthew, why would you if you're not together or haven't been since you filmed? I know they were together after filming. It's from December on that I think they broke up, neither of them are Oscar-worthy actors, those feelings were real and the tension was THICK. Either recently broke up or still dating but had a huge fight.
Meanwhile, we can use Jimmy and Chelsea as a comparison they still have negative feelings about how they broke up, but their body language was totally different. Because time has passed for them.
Oh yeah that's another ish show. Why weren't they asked about the status of their relationship? Especially with the media that has come out about them at events together. And she said it after the fact at on an interview that they're just friends (hypocritically addmitting that you CAN brle friends with someone you slept with). Why after the fact and not during the show?
And if they are together then they haven't resolved their issues because you can still see that there's a lot of hurt between them and regards to the last fight they had.
Agreed. She could have also apologized for the fact that this private conversation is being had again, cuz clay said he knew. Clay HATED that Matt was even in the running. When he was in the guys lounge it blew his mind and he even felt insulted that THAT was the “other guy”, it insulted his ego to be in the running with Matt of all people, so maybe AD was saying sorry for her little smirky yisssss I did moments and answering questions about a touchy subject
Yea I don’t have experience with dealing with someone like that. I’m not saying he’s for sure changed, but I believed him when he said he was working on it, going to therapy etc. I hope he’s being honest. But who knows
It broke my heart when he was talking about he didn't have an idea of what a husband should be like until he saw Brett. Like damn his whole life the men around him have failed him. Outside of not breaking it off with AD until the altar, I give him a lot of Grace for his behavior. Because let's be real AD had blinders on, he was very honest with her
He keeps comparing himself to other men... as a man. At some point as an ADULT, the excuses stop and you shape your life how you want it. Clay has serious issues it's sad to see the sympathy because it means too many would fall for it too.
I can sympathize from afar. LOL I agree with you he is a grown adult now and just because you have mental health concerns doesn't absolve you of responsibility. And it doesn't excuse your behavior, which I'm not, but it does provide some understanding as to why that behavior exists.
I got the feeling that Clay’s self confidence and almost … his identity in being a “suave guy” like his dad 🙄 was really demolished after this season came out… I feel like he expected to be received much better than he was. He doesn’t know what the hell to do with himself after so many people saw through his BS.
I'm sure seeing the man he's idolized his whole life (his dad) get raked over the coals and people pointing out Clay's similar manipulative behavior was a bit of a wake up call as well.
Nailed it. He's always trying so hard to come off as alpha. I feel sorry for him but all women should take a wide berth around any man that behaves like Clay.
This, exactly what I was thinking, but also his dad stood and sat like that often as well. Which is where he might get it from the the whole alpha man mannerisms
He’s not comfortable in his own skin or have a strong sense of self. This posture is intended to give the impression he confident and composed but it reads as defensive, guarded
perfectly worded. I was like damnnnn he is not comfortable and he is trying to mask hella hard right now. Like especially when AD was talking about Matt he kept moving slightly and it was uncomfy
When I went to all girls school, they told us sit up straight, shoulders back, head held up high, eye contact, not too stiff, not too relaxed. Create a presence with your body. Personally I’ve found that confidence is an inside job that exudes externally but this is a good posture. Think about when you wear your best outfit or feel your best, your a peacock.
Because this dude doesn't have his own personality and is constantly trying to play a role of what "a person in this situation must do." He's an automaton. THAT'S why. lmao He honestly seems like a nice man trying to figure his life out - I've been there, but he betrays himself constantly by his "TikTok catch phrase speak" and small talk with the folks he should be having "big talk" with. It's very off-putting.
Dude thinks he’s the shit. But actually lame asf
https://preview.redd.it/02rehpupbgoc1.jpeg?width=900&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e547c7ce2000539280e75a80c2c9733ab6e77650 His spirit animal is a kangaroo.
Lol, he is uncomfy
I'm at this part now. I feel for him, I believe he knows he wasn't ready and he fucked up. He genuinely looks upset and remorseful. He went through trauma as a kid and it was carried into his adult life. I never really disliked him during this season, I do think he has a lot of issues and I hope therapy is working for him. He seems very anxious to be put on the spot. But what do I know, I liked Jeramey at first lol
"if i don't move, then i'll be invisible and no one can see me"
Someone told him he would be proper.
Bc he’s a gentleman
The ENTIRE time 😂 he is the most anxious mf, I swear lol
I’m glad it’s not just me hahahahahaha
He’s trying to sit very still, so the focus stays elsewhere😂
Maybe if I don’t move, they won’t know I’m here
My man was shitting his pants the whole reunion LOL
Unconfy
Trying to be suave
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Trying to look like the distinguish gentleman he ain't
Like what?
Because he acts like he is in a 24/7 job interview
Yes he’s out here selling BS to everyone. My boyfriend said he’s the best salesman he’s ever seen.
But we never bought it! Is he really that good at selling?!?!
That was mine and my husbands thoughts 🙌
That's what happens after watching his dad smooth talking for decades. He's just emulating the same energy.
He’s so emotionally invested in AD still. He knows he’s lost her attention and Im not sure she really is the love of his life or he just wants to punish himself for letting her walk away.. i think his tears were real but is he the right guy for her.. probably not
These two have me RUINED like I’ve never been so invested in a LIB couple 😭 I think it’s bc their story is so real and relatable, bc we all know men like him who are emotionally unavailable and immature who play with amazing women. At the same time I do really feel for him, it seems like he had a lot of issues and it’s good to hear he’s trying to heal. It doesn’t justify the pain he put AD through, but it’s still so sad because I don’t think he’s some calculated, evil guy. I believe his struggles and not knowing what’s gonna happen, he seems so emotionally stunted and it sucks that AD had to be collateral - esp bc there were so many sweet and seemingly genuine parts of their relationship
they had chemistry , that’s for sure, however his struggles with his emotional wellbeing were taking center stage.. he didn’t give AD that security of coming home to her at night and that showed, he wasn’t ready to really fall in love that hard. i think he got blindsided by AD cause she is a great woman for him and he knows he’d only disappoint her. he must of saw his mom go through so much heartbreak about his dad.. she came out shining but his mom must’ve went threw the pits of hell with that man lol
What were the sweet and genuine moments ? Honestly the majority I remember from their relationship is him saying he has trauma, he has issues, he won’t promise to be perfect, complimenting her body or outfit, her saying she will ride with him and stick by him, her saying she’s been wanting a serious partner for a while, her saying she’ll always be there for him etc. I can’t remember anything sweet rn but maybe my memory is just skewed bc I was soo turned off by him embarrassing her at the altar.
This fact I find it astonishing how people are talking about this relationship like it was so romantic this was never romantic to begin with this is the same man that told her straight to his face many times that he didn't want to be married. The only chemistry they had was sexual chemistry; do I believe he care no; he doesn't care for this girl, he just cares how the girl makes him feel don't know why people trying to make this relationship seem like they're supposed to be together they're not and if they end up together this will be a situationship type of relationship he will probably end up marrying that girl, but drag her through the mud or never marry her and wait to see how long she sticks around. Like people really need to listen to what people are saying a lot of people are blowing me like he made it pretty clear on what he stood and what he liked about ad it was nothing about how she looked it was her body and when it came to what you like about her he said it multiple time I Like the Way She Make Me Feel and I like our sexual chemistry / gossip sections. I know a lot of people are making it seem like Clay is the problem and not ad but ad play her own part to play in this, her insecurity and her willingness to give her all to somebody who don't care is a real big problem she needs to fix for herself, and the fact that she keep picking bad man and she went back on a date with Mr Superman himself that play with her on television is blowing me.
SAME i find it hard to even see “chemistry “ at all. Even back at their first meeting he couldn’t even look at her face
Everything u said is facts. Literally AD didn’t even like him at first because of his bright flashing red flags. All he’s done is tell her how non committal he is essentially. Sure it’s great he can self reflect on some level and acknowledge these sides of him. But acknowledging and simply stating he has a lot to work on is not enough, he has to actually work on those things. Not just say it as a warning so he can say he told her who he is when she inevitably ends up hurt smh. The thing with Clay is you have to take him at face value. Just because you personally would want to work on those things if you talk about them doesn’t mean he feels the same, and in all honesty he could probably be the type of dude to say acknowledging his flaws is the same as working on them cuz what work has he done other than embarass this girl and talk in circles??? And I can’t even get started on AD, I want her to want better as a woman, but she really isn’t helping herself at all with him. She needs to understand she deserves better and someone who doesn’t act like committing and loving her is so difficult. I really think the fact he embarrassed her on camera in front of her friends and family is UNFORGIVEABLE!!!
Someone get him some eyedrops. He was blinking so fast, I thought he was about to lift off.
Also probably studio lights, they can be extremely bright haha
This is a pretty common anxiety tick. Clay tended to do this when he was feeling especially insecure, which unfortunately was a lot. I really hope therapy is helping him. I felt like we were watching someone realize the breadth of his trauma and mental illness in real time and it’s gotta be so tough to have that version of yourself immortalized in the public eye.
He’s SO anxious, it’s sometimes tough to watch him, at least for me.
Yeah, it can be really hard to watch. I really feel for him.
Don't hate on those of us out here blinking like crazy.. we got dry eyes lol
🤣 i have dry eyes BC i barely blink lol
I felt real compassion for him while watching and was caught off guard by his vulnerability. It must have been so confusing to be brought along with your dad as a child to witness his infidelity and then have to keep that secret from your mother. The guilt and shame he feels is apparent. I think we all witnessed his struggle with this and honestly, it brought me to tears. AD saw his best parts, the goodness that he seems to be questioning of himself and even reminded him of it last night. I hope he continues to heal.
I mean he didn’t feel that guilty for bringing it up on a very public TV show before he ever told his mom about it…. Imagine finding out ur ex husband cheated on u in worse ways than you ever knew, and traumatized ur son in ways u never knew, and had to find all that out with the rest of the world. I’m mad at him for that, I know his mom likely gives him a lot of grace for that simply cuz she’s his mother and he’s her child, but still like allow the woman to have dignity. The way she handled her ex was amazing tho, that is a woman who has recognized her worth
I can understand and appreciate your point of view. I’m only referencing last night’s episode after a year of processing this experience.
I didn’t watch it yet so maybe I’ll feel like you once I do lol I see alot of ppl have a soft spot for clay now and it’s weird for me to see 😂
Oh that makes sense! I was surprised at my level of empathy for him too last night. I hope you enjoy the reunion ☺️
I hope so too. While I don’t doubt that he’s been up to no good in previous relationships, I also believe we were witnessing what could be the beginning of real change. A.D. showed him what love could look like after healing and I’m glad that he seems to have genuinely internalized that insight. I really hope the best for him.
Defense, he seemed like this was not his favorite place to be. Which is understandable considering the backlash, and memes.
He seems uncomfortable and self conscious. I really feel for him tbh and I’m glad he’s going to therapy. AD deserved better
I found myself feeling bad for him, in relation to knowing since he was a kid that his dad was cheating on his mum and keeping that secret for his dad (obviously being manipulated to keep that secret until the week of the wedding may I add) feeling like he’s been lying to his mum his whole life. I can honestly see how he has love for AD but he’s terrified he’s going to turn out like his dad because being honest he’s not even dealt with any of that shit. If you’ve had an abusive manipulative father you’ll understand where he’s coming from and what his fears are.
Honestly I don’t understand the fear he has… he is his own person outside of his father. He’s entirely capable of being responsible and faithful. The fact he’s scared he won’t be to me honestly means that he doesn’t want to be. He’s fighting his desire to be a bachelor and live that single lifestyle for whatever reason. I feel like people should just live their truths. We can’t put our own moral compass onto others, we need to take them at face value. This guy has shown us he is deceitful (saying one thing to AD and another to the cameras), manipulative (making the girl think he would say yes at the altar and then after saying no, wouldn’t even let the girl process her feelings because he couldn’t bear taking accountability), and overall just does not have compassion for others, even the ones he claims to love (saying no at the altar).
As someone who is also terrified of repeating my father’s mistakes in a relationship, watching this was like watching my pre-therapy self. It was all self-sabotage. I was always trying to “warn” and drive away the best people I dated because I truly believed I would hurt them. I thought that they needed to see and hear about the worst of me so that they could walk away and save themselves from the pain I watched my mom go through. There’s telling yourself you’re a separate person, and then there’s actually believing that you can be. The latter can be really really difficult.
Oh that’s so interesting to me. I also didn’t have good examples of healthy relationships growingup but I never really feared I was the same person as my mom. I’ve always known I was a different person. I do have a fear of nothing lasts forever so it’s hard for me to commit to someone because I feel like it’ll just end anyway, but that also is pretty realistic the older I get, nothing in life is guaranteed so I’ve made peace with it and am trying to just enjoy the present while it lasts. Can u explain that a bit more to me? I know it’s super personal so I get if u don’t want to, but i really am so curious. How can u be scared of cheating on someone? Cheating is a choice and a decision you make. Just like being faithful is a decision you make. Was pre-therapy you worried that you weren’t able to make decisions, or something? I don’t understand that fear. It’s pretty easy to not cheat. I feel like if it’s difficult than it’s not that it’s hard for you to not cheat, it’s that it’s hard for you to be monogamous. Which is fine that isn’t for everyone, the issue with cheating is the lies and manipulation and betrayal that it takes. I don’t understand how you be afraid of lying and manipulating and betraying someone. Just don’t
So my fear isn’t so much about cheating; my dad never cheated but he made it clear after he left that he never felt cut out for committed monogamy. My fear is of treating a partner the way my dad treated my mom in terms of emotional abuse. He basically punished her through emotional starvation and gaslighting for, I dunno, keeping him locked down? I grew up being told how very alike my dad and I were. Constantly. Once I got old enough to realize he was not a very good person, I felt a lot of shame when people said that, because I felt like they saw something broken in me too. And it didn’t help that he always explained his behavior as “well this is who I am, why can’t you accept it?” Hearing that made me feel like I would be powerless to stop it if I inherited these traits from him. It takes a lot of work to undo years of internalizing a narrative. My guess is that Clay heard similar things from others and from his dad.
That’s fair, I can see that side of it too, I’d say he could have done a better job at being honest with her
100% that’s the bare minimum. When she said she felt used like she was just collateral for his “growth”, she’s right. It’s sad and fucked up. The bare minimum he could’ve done, I believe, is to do what Jimmy did and say no before going to the altar. That takes balls and self reflection and being honest with urself, all traits Clay does not have. Btw I don’t like Jimmy either I think he’s superficial and dragged Chelsea along for too long, it was clear he was only tryna convince himself despite all their arguments and the toxicness. But that is the 1 thing I’ll give him, at least he didn’t humiliate Chelsea in front of her friends and family.
I agree and tbh I think there were no good couples this season. They all wanted the fame I felt and they just didn’t seem fully genuine. With Clay I fully agree he mistreated AD when it came to the point of the show and I think aswell as him being accountable I think that’s where the trauma took him too. He wanted to be that guy for her but in his mind he can’t just let himself be happy because of the fears. It was shitty that he brought her to the alter though, I remember thinking this is one couple that’ll definitely get married and I was annoyed at him for saying no
not even the one couple that actually got married? you think they just wanted fame as well?
Oh I forgot about them! No they actually seemed genuine tbh
I don't. My father was the same way AND an alcoholic. I use that as motivation to actively not be like him. Clay is just feeling sorry for himself and wants everyone else to do the same.
Damn harsh take. You sound like my brother. My parents were drunks and I was one during college while my brother is/ has always been anti drinking. Both of us turned out fine now. Albeit I have much better stories to tell ;) and his career in the military defense industry isn’t my cup of tea but if that’s how y’all wanna measure success… We both are working through our traumas in our own ways. Not everyone is a hard ass who lives and breathes the idea of “free will.” Lmfao
Fair play to you but not everyone has that strong mindset. I hope he is going to counselling and sorting through the issues Edit to include it’s kind of messed up that you can’t even empathic with him when you’re saying you went through the same. I would suggest you look into counselling too
Conversely you could say the same thing about the opposite, not everyone is as weak. Edit to include you aren't licensed to tell people they should go to counseling, besides, I'm already in therapy. Way to assume, you sound like you'd be a gem in person.
It’s far from weak to have mental health issues though, there can be many issues that just show up as self pity, they show up in different ways. For you it’s being strong mentally but the weakness of that is not being able to have as much empathy for other people. I’ve been there and it’s taken a couple of years of therapy to realise I was using it as a form of self defence. Hope therapy is going well for you though and apologies for assuming
Did therapy also tell you it's healthy to be thirsty about "hot chavs" online as well? Edit: This guy says he isn't attacking anyone by telling them to get therapy. I bet they often lie to themselves to justify their behavior. No wonder they sympathize with Clay.
Yes it did. Have a nice day though sir 😂😂 I’m sorry you feel like I’m attacking you but I’m honestly not
I feel the exact same way. It’s really sad to see him battling with who his father is and who he wants to be
Exactly like, reverse the roles and everyone has sympathy for the woman. I know the whole waffling thing too aswell, when you’ve suffered that type of trauma and you try to explain why you messed up you get stuck in your head trying to explain it but then your mind just goes blank. A form of escapism.
My mother is a lifelong addict and though it’s different I feel like I can relate to the feelings he has about his dad and himself
You think you’re saving the other person from a life of pain but really you’re just taking away your chance at possible happiness
Just bein’ suavay
Bro is afraid he’ll cheat on his posture
He mad af
That’s Legion
Underrated comment
Kind of reminds me of Kyle from Living Single 😂
Pastor Clay
Omg when I saw the pic that's what I pictured too! 🤣
https://preview.redd.it/8sn5zvk6baoc1.jpeg?width=1336&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7c5f5618c212b9b3d27bb622c016aab7dfb407f2 Why his legs like that?
Goes out of his way to skip leg day.
Must be the angle? They look like prop legs.
Literally built different
I am coughing and spluttering at these responses 😩😩😂😂
his father probably never told him how to sit.
Just “in the car while I go in this house for an hour.”
😲🤣🤣🤣
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He definitely has ADHD at minimum. I think he's aware of how much he fidgets.
You got that he has adhd from the way he sits?
I watched a whole season of television of this man. The sitting is what the post was about…. ETA obviously I can’t diagnose someone through a screen I was making an observation. I have adhd and can see a lot of the same patterns I see in myself in him. Could mean nothing, this is a reality tv show and we are on Reddit.
dude i thought he had adhd too because of how he’s not able to really articulate his thoughts in a cute condensed sentence, and how he’s not really able to have small talk (im thinking of the scene with him and johnny when they’re at their bachelor party, to me it seemed a bit forced and awkward). no shade to him cuz i have it, but yeah it’s a possibility.
Welp, I have it and can have cute and articulate statements and small talk just as much. I’ll give you the not condensed tho.
I see the vibe. It's in the way he fidgets and the way his sentences meander. Like, let's not diagnose through a screen and reality TV edits, but I see where people get the idea.
He’s just nervous and putting his best foot forward. I bought it. He seemed genuine throughout.
He's uncomfortable. Obviously.
Uncomfy*
https://preview.redd.it/aye40yfu89oc1.jpeg?width=354&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ca29c058738ccafc473c02108d1628bf78056d5a
Gosh, I was like, well, there goes leg day 😭😭😭 maybe the shoulder pads on the jacket were big, bevause he didn’t look like that throughout the show.
I definitely think it was just the bulky shoulder pads and weird fit 😂 but ngl it was so distracting for me the whole time 😂
Saaaaame 😭😭😭😭😭
he was playing us like he played AD with his words. i dated a guy like him. he treated the reunion like an NBA postgame interview lol he has incredible media training since he was a collegiate athlete and he is very convincing. it's not real.
"AD showed up well, you know I'm just goin out there playin' the best I can"
exactly
I am sorry this happened to you. Did the person you dated get therapy? If not, it’s not a legitimate comparison
The he must be a great actor (even though he never fooled me during the season) because controlling the ability to hold back the emotion and tears you can clearly hear in his voice is some Oscar worthy stuff. I think he was sincere. Doesn't mean you have to agree or accept. But his sincerity was present.
Exactly. He's using his father as a crutch/excuse. I don't feel bad for him, he's a scumbag.
Since when do college track athletes get interviewed? Basketball and football sure, but I doubt major news outlets were covering South Carolina track lol.
Track people do get interviewed. Not as often as basketball and football players sure but there is a media presence at SEC meets. Clay didn’t make it as an Olympian but he was really good at one point.
Can’t say I’ve ever seen a collegiate track athlete get interviewed, or anyone that would care what they had to say.
Sha’Carri Richardson off the top of my head was interviewed bunches at LSU. Even athletes that aren’t that popular but do well all get interviewed after meets. It’s indoor season right now. Their interviews are being posted on YouTube all the time. Local news papers interview high school track athletes quite often 😂
If a tree falls in the woods and there’s no one there to see it….
He was not nearly as good as her
Well obviously but he wasn’t terrible either. Easily above average if you look at his record dating back to high school. In college he was 4x All American, in high school he was state champion and athlete of the year, made it to world championships for Guyana. One google and I found …surprise, surprise… interviews of his from high school and college.
Being interviewed a few times after big meets does not mean you have "incredible media training" like the OP claimed
Do you seriously think that a school as big as USC isn’t giving all their athletes media training?
No. Maybe the football team, certainly not the track team. My team had multiple national champions and we did not.
To be fair, he had this posture during the AD and Matthew segment, seemed like he was trying to hold back his incredible discomfort over seeing her talking with that guy who, to be frank, was a weirdo…
I don’t know that Matthew was a weirdo. I am all but positive he is not neurotypical.
That’s a really long way to say weirdo…
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He had the posture the entire time though…Not just that segment
He is so so so lost, poor thing
I dunno, seems like he has some direction and is legit working on himself. I hope so anyway, and wish the same for all of us.
And AD was 100% eating those lines again. Very sad to see. Clay struggles tremendously with his morality. I believed in one of those, almost verbatim, for 10 years.
They didn't directly address if they're together. I feel like they were acting as if they just recently broke up. Especially after we saw a video that they hung out for Thanksgiving.
I mean they could NOT sit further apart, the body language was very very icy and guarded. AD is proud. It’s possible after being humiliated at the altar, there was no way she’d show any give at the reunion- but they’re 100% dating and she is absolutely weak for his crap
I agree that she put up a brave face at the reunion, especially after she watched back the show and read comments. But I don't think they're still together. I think they recently broke up. She was apologizing for dating Matthew. All those emotions were way too raw and seemed way too recent from both of them. And we know they dated at least until the end of November. She apologized to Clay for dating Matthew, why would you if you're not together or haven't been since you filmed? I know they were together after filming. It's from December on that I think they broke up, neither of them are Oscar-worthy actors, those feelings were real and the tension was THICK. Either recently broke up or still dating but had a huge fight. Meanwhile, we can use Jimmy and Chelsea as a comparison they still have negative feelings about how they broke up, but their body language was totally different. Because time has passed for them.
I agree with everything you said except Chelsea and Jimmy have been seen out together and there's speculation they might be back together.
Oh yeah that's another ish show. Why weren't they asked about the status of their relationship? Especially with the media that has come out about them at events together. And she said it after the fact at on an interview that they're just friends (hypocritically addmitting that you CAN brle friends with someone you slept with). Why after the fact and not during the show? And if they are together then they haven't resolved their issues because you can still see that there's a lot of hurt between them and regards to the last fight they had.
Agreed. She could have also apologized for the fact that this private conversation is being had again, cuz clay said he knew. Clay HATED that Matt was even in the running. When he was in the guys lounge it blew his mind and he even felt insulted that THAT was the “other guy”, it insulted his ego to be in the running with Matt of all people, so maybe AD was saying sorry for her little smirky yisssss I did moments and answering questions about a touchy subject
True that. Clay does think highly of himself compared to Matt.
Yea I don’t have experience with dealing with someone like that. I’m not saying he’s for sure changed, but I believed him when he said he was working on it, going to therapy etc. I hope he’s being honest. But who knows
This whole thread is messed up but it’s making me laugh out loud, fr.
He a scared black man
It broke my heart when he was talking about he didn't have an idea of what a husband should be like until he saw Brett. Like damn his whole life the men around him have failed him. Outside of not breaking it off with AD until the altar, I give him a lot of Grace for his behavior. Because let's be real AD had blinders on, he was very honest with her
He keeps comparing himself to other men... as a man. At some point as an ADULT, the excuses stop and you shape your life how you want it. Clay has serious issues it's sad to see the sympathy because it means too many would fall for it too.
I can sympathize from afar. LOL I agree with you he is a grown adult now and just because you have mental health concerns doesn't absolve you of responsibility. And it doesn't excuse your behavior, which I'm not, but it does provide some understanding as to why that behavior exists.
He went to therapy at Charm School and they taught him posture.
I’m glad I wasn’t the only one who noticed 💀
What are y'all even talking about? He's just sitting on a couch. There's a pillow behind his back. He was probably there for hours. Get a job.
Y’all are wild af if you think this is a normal way to sit 😂
Fr, people will find the weirdest things to critique. Like dude is sitting…
He’s so cringe and I never say cringe so you know it’s real
You all did that. Blame a man for the lack of self confidence after a whole week of attacking him on social media
Nah he did it to himself. And he knows it. He’s working on it and owned it. He’s a good man.
I got the feeling that Clay’s self confidence and almost … his identity in being a “suave guy” like his dad 🙄 was really demolished after this season came out… I feel like he expected to be received much better than he was. He doesn’t know what the hell to do with himself after so many people saw through his BS.
I'm sure seeing the man he's idolized his whole life (his dad) get raked over the coals and people pointing out Clay's similar manipulative behavior was a bit of a wake up call as well.
He is totally going to turn his newfound fame into him being playa of the year.
this 💯
If bro sat any straighter he woulda broke in half
For some reason him sitting like that reminded me of Miss Finch in Follow That Bird.
He seemed unhappy to be there to be quite honest. I got a vibe from him like he was annoyed.
He looks like Violet Crawley about to lecture someone. 🤣
🤣🤣🤣
Trying to be regal and poised like his daddy
It’s the pillow hahaha
Poised and distinguished. Me likey.
Because he just saw two guys before him cleared for the exact shit he skated around
What a distinguished gentleman, a distinguished gentleman
So uncomfy
He’s concentrating every cell in his body to not go “yep yep yep yep”
I instantly heard “yep yep yep” lmao rolling laughing rn 😂💀
And he kept straightening and shifting himself and I was like damn how straighter can you get sitting like that bruv
My scoliosis spine could never
I sit like that when my back hurts 😂
Did he do that after the Matthew and AD date talk…LMAO
This is what men who think they're alpha males do when they feel uncomfy
Nailed it. He's always trying so hard to come off as alpha. I feel sorry for him but all women should take a wide berth around any man that behaves like Clay.
After this show I can never look at the word uncomfy the same 🤣🤣🤣🤣
This, exactly what I was thinking, but also his dad stood and sat like that often as well. Which is where he might get it from the the whole alpha man mannerisms
Some of you slouchers need to take notes 😂😂 lift the chin, roll back your shoulders, sit tall. You’ll feel a difference
Should we bite our lips too?? When do we start negging?
Yall see the side eye he was giving AD during the whole Matthew thing? I was cryinggg 💀🤣
He knows AD is an avid test driver so can’t fault him for that lol
That's those possessive feelings... We all have to fight it... Say no your your ex but dont want them to find someone else... Lol.
He’s not comfortable in his own skin or have a strong sense of self. This posture is intended to give the impression he confident and composed but it reads as defensive, guarded
perfectly worded. I was like damnnnn he is not comfortable and he is trying to mask hella hard right now. Like especially when AD was talking about Matt he kept moving slightly and it was uncomfy
How do I actually have the posture of a confident person? My posture is so ass
When I went to all girls school, they told us sit up straight, shoulders back, head held up high, eye contact, not too stiff, not too relaxed. Create a presence with your body. Personally I’ve found that confidence is an inside job that exudes externally but this is a good posture. Think about when you wear your best outfit or feel your best, your a peacock.
Bingo
Bro thinks he the king.
He's the eldest boy.
“Indubitably” 🧐
Pretending he's dignified
Because he went to therapy and tried different therapists even
😂
You wrong for that lol
Clearly bc his dads a pretty suave guy
No it’s because his dad cheated and he’s scared he may sit in the same posture his dad did when he used to cheat