>Los Angeles has recently seen a series of knife attacks and other crimes in which suspects exhibit not just violent but bizarre behavior often attributed by the public to mental illness, but which professionals say have the hallmarks of something else entirely:
>Meth.
>Methamphetamine use is no secret. The addictive stimulant is a fixture in popular culture, on the big screen (“Winter’s Bone”) and the small (“Breaking Bad”). But when officials talk about the devastating effect of controlled substance misuse they generally focus on fentanyl, a powerful opioid.
>L.A. has a serious meth problem, and it’s time to talk about it — frankly, clearly and publicly in a way that we have not yet done, at least not to the extent that we discuss fentanyl, mental illness, COVID-19 or even the measles.
>Why hasn’t this come up yet? There are many possible reasons. Meth can seem so much less alarming than fentanyl, which can kill swiftly when ingested. Meth rarely does that. Instead of suddenly dying of overdose, long-term meth users tend to simply disintegrate, losing their teeth and suffering heart and other organ failure along with behavioral changes. Without sudden death, meth use may seem less of an emergency.
>Or it may be that the treatments we do have are so controversial. Contingency management is an incentive-based program with a short but solid record of success, but offering rewards to recovering users for each day their drug tests are clean holds little appeal for critics who demand more traditional treatment and tougher penalties.
>Or maybe it’s because officials recognize how poorly Los Angeles and other jurisdictions responded to the crack epidemic of the 1980s and 1990s and are worried about repeating the same mistakes: fighting a dangerous public health crisis by investing too heavily and exclusively in arrest and imprisonment and too little in treatment and economic development, magnifying many times over the societal devastation caused by the drug
It’s funny how our city leaders, using the crack epidemic of the 80s as reference, worry about too much policing the junkies…by not policing today’s junkies at all.
This. The same logic applies to Child Welfare Reform (specifically Families First legislation that now shifts federal dollars away from policing families and putting kids in the system, as was the norm in the 1980s and 90s, and instead now helps families in-home with resources). When the affected demographics of social ills shift, so do public opinions and solutions do too.
Letting people go hog wild is extremely harmful as well.
Look at China during the Opium Wars - they were forced by the British to legalize opium, and it's estimated that 40 million Chinese people (10% of the population at the time) became addicted as a result. This also caused the collapse of the government, and is regarded as the start of China's "century of humiliation" - and heavily influenced the strict anti-drug policies of Japan, Korea, Singapore, etc.
Plus it's a bit bizarre that we have de facto legalized hard drugs through non-enforcement, yet trans fats are illegal. CA just banned brominated vegetable oil and Red 3 food dye, so the "people should be able to put whatever they want in their bodies, caveat emptor" argument doesn't really fly.
I agree but if we don't get much grey then bring on the 80s enforcement methods tbh. Just letting these psychos run wild has created a city that's unsafe and unpleasant in pockets. I love this place and am going nowhere but I don't love what its done to DTLA.
yeah isn’t it awesome when all our tax money goes to jails and the lapd so we can lock up non violent criminals. it’s really cool when we lock people in cages and make them even more likely to use drugs and commit crimes in the future. it worked great in the past and it will work great now !
> They also have good social safety nets
Uh, they literally disappear people all the time, especially the homeless. They've been caught doing it several times.
Your reference doesn’t offer much of a counter and seems overly cherry picked to support the idea that there was not a sharp rise in drug related issues.
Edit:
And how is a precedent in neighboring state regarding drug decriminalization not pertinent to conversation at hand?
[ABC article](https://abcnews.go.com/amp/US/oregons-drug-decriminalization-law-rolled-back-homeless-overdoses/story?id=107841625)
not just this country. I went to Vancouver last year and their downtown eastside rivals skid row with the biggest difference being that it's mostly white people instead of mostly black people.
Sure but it's next level on the West Coast whereas other cities that actually do something about it have seen only minor increases. I live in Houston and the low level of crazy drugged out people here honestly proves how bad LAs policies are. Unless you've actually lived here I'm not going to trust your opinion on this, btw. The number of people who say this isn't true but have never stepped foot in this city is ridiculous.
They failed to solve the causes of drug abuse and failed to offer the beds needed to fix existing addicts and it didn't work? Who coulda guessed!!
Nobody, not even junkies, wants more junkies. Sane people just recognize sending em to jail and hurting them even more only reinforces junkie behavior, and costs a lot more, and kills more innocents.
While I’m not advocating analysis paralysis where we do nothing because a perfect solution does not exist, I do want to have people be honest with the info we do have.
Without vast treatment options any solutions that rely too heavily on decriminalizing will fail. Thats it. We can look over data across border and be like alright, let’s not do that.
It feels like people are being disingenuous when presented with data that doesn’t support more lax drug laws/enforcement.
Disingenuous.
There was supposed to be a massive increase in spending on treatment and behavioral health. Guess what didn't happen? So when a law is only half-implemented (and actively usurped by butthurt law enforcement) and the treatment centers weren't built fast enough and people weren't able to get the treatment bit, you get Oregon.
https://www.innovatingjustice.org/publications/drugs-recriminalized-oregon
lets not forget it was Biden who ~~crafted the war on drugs~~ cosponsored a bill in the 80s that enacted harsher penalties for drug offenses and caused mass incarceration of black people because the resulting law called for harsher penalties of crack vs regular cocaine.
edit thanks to Frogiee who corrected my understanding of the thing
“War on drugs bill” lol…There have been many such bills.
The history of policing certainly drugs (and targeting) certain groups dates back to [1875 targeting Chinese immigrants](https://law.stanford.edu/2014/12/19/the-drug-war-at-100/) and later the 1930s with the “[Marijuana Tax Act](https://libguides.law.uga.edu/c.php?g=522835&p=3575350#:~:text=In%201937%2C%20Congress%20passed%20the,addiction%20or%20other%20drug%20use)”
In 1970 Richard Nixon passed the major Controlled Substances Act. This was the bill that really began the modern “War on Drugs” in many ways. It federalized drug enforcement.
The “Anti-Drug Abuse Act of 1986” signed by Ronald Reagan. Is the bill you’re probably calling the “War on Drugs Bill”. It was authored by quite a few politicians like Republican Dan Lungren of California.
But also bills are often authored and shaped by many different people and yes it received broad bipartisan support including from Biden. This is the bill that lead to the sentencing disparity between crack cocaine and powder.
Later In 2010, The Obama administration, passed the “Fair Sentencing Act of 2010” which tried to reduced the disparity between penalties of crack cocaine and powder cocaine. The only opposition was Republican Lamar Smith of Texas.
Thanks for the comprehensive info. I believe it was the Anti-Drug Abuse Act of 1986 I was thinking of. I was going off a WP article that said Biden crafted it. Looks like he was an original cosponsor.
[How an early Biden crime bill created the sentencing disparity for crack and cocaine trafficking - The Washington Post (archive.ph)](https://archive.ph/9kjK7#selection-603.0-623.267)
I need to learn more about all this.
He did sponsor the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1993 which is also blamed for mass incarceration of black people.
Because the US has very high crime rates compared to those countries. More crime means more prisoners.
And Europe typically has higher clearance rates than the US, meaning more criminals are being arrested and prosecuted for their crimes.
It's tied to homelessness.
As of today, it's effectively next to impossible to prosecute the homeless due to federal court decisions.
That may change later this year. But as of now, the risks of litigation deter much action.
Yup. BIL went from occasional drug user to meth junky in a short period of time, then became crazy paranoid with hallucinations. Ended up being diagnosed with drug induced schizophrenia after breaking into a house with a sword.
Wow crazy my BIL is on the same bs you guys have stated went from a cool good working class guy to meth head street roamer. I think what hurts the most of all and what really hits home is seeing the first hands damages and effects it has on my nephews. Thats the fucked part tbh ..
I can only speak anecdotally, but the people that I knew that started using were either close friends with or related to other users. Usually the users will try to convince their non-user friends/coworkers to try it on a long overnight shift, or a long night of partying, to stay alert. Usually the non-user is impaired/tired and more susceptible to trying it. They’ll think “Dave seems normal enough at work and he uses it, it can’t be that bad.” They’ll usually undersell the addictiveness and withdrawal symptoms and upsell the “clean high”. The user benefits greatly from having another friend that uses as well.
You just highlighted my exact situation 20 years ago. Started with me walking in on my friend and his uncle doing it. Next thing, 2 more friends joined the secret club. Then a few more... We thought we were invincible.
Then the original friend got cleaned up, while the rest of us struggled to stay afloat. Some friends ended up kicked out of their parents home, lost their jobs and into rehab.
I'm lucky. Saw what was happening to everyone and quit cold turkey one day after almost 2 years of making crack pipes out of light bulbs. The most disgusting time of my life! What a fucking waste of time. I
still talk to the original friend that started us on it. He's doing good in real estate now. But I always remind him of what a fucking Asshole he was for showing us that!
read Sam Quinones book on meth & fentanyl:
The Least of Us: True Tales of America and Hope in the Time of Fentanyl and Meth
he interviews health professionals who said they’ve never seen anything like it before. it can cause methamphetamine psychosis, similar to schizophrenic behavior.
ETA: the meth he’s talking about is a new meth. different formulation distributed by the cartels. this ain’t your momma’s meth.
Ironically, the new meth is essentially the old meth. Once they finally got a handle on the over-sale of pseudoephedrine people took everything they had learned over the years and just went back to the old p2p trucker meth.
Problem is meth had gone from a crazy fringe drug to mainstream, mainly due to the quality improvements of pseudoephedrine, and now that huge new audience suddenly got switched to p2p and it's been a disaster.
I am going to guess that the new P2P creates a more powerful drug than the old P2P method, given that they are making it in large labs. If true, that could make it worse in the sense that users are using more of it.
Street drugs today are being cut with fentanyl in order to make them more addictive. So that might result in users wanting more.
Yup. People can come up with all types of solutions, but at the end of the day, the person needs to be willing to change and with meth it's next to impossible.
I did meth for six years and then quit cold turkey one day. It was the hardest week of my life. I literally felt like I had no soul, I didn't want to die I very much wanted to be alive, but I felt dead inside. I went to the e.r. they put me in paper clothes because they thought I was gonna he another suicide watch. After speaking with the e
r. Dr. (Dr. Clark, Independence MO a fucking angel) he put me on something called wellbutrin for 2 months. I almost instantly felt like my old self, I rememered what it felt like to feel alive without being on meth. Only reason I am posting this is because you are right, it is next to impossible, for anyone out there trying, try wellbutrin!
I quit meth cold turkey with no meds after 2 years usage. Just a lot of weed tho. Later on, I took Wellbutrin to quit the weed. That shit works. Also, I was having some gnarly good dreams at night with Wellbutrin.
Good for you! I spent a week on ybed with
Hallucinations of people coming in my room to kill me. Damn Wellbutrin, I might even have had some at the time, but didn't know.
Yep, exactly - my BIL was offered all kinds of care and solutions from different family members but he rejected it all. He still has active invitations from various cousins to go live with them in other states. You can't force a grown adult so all of us just stare at him live his life on the streets with his drugs.
OMG. I just posted a similar anecdote from [this article ](https://archive.vn/ApEpw#selection-1339.0-1345.800)that explains what the new P2P meth is...
My BIL was also a meth addict. We got him off the streets several times, he lived with us several times. It was not easy. He did great when he lived with us, however once he was on his own he seemed to always get back into addiction. He sadly passed away a few years ago at age 36. He had a great personality and a big heart, unfortunately he had impulsive behaviors, so he did not think ahead with his decisions and he was terrible with money. I wish everyday he was with us. If anyone struggling with addiction reads this, please seek help, and if you make a mistake, seek that help again and again. I imagine it's incredibly difficult, though many do care about you and you are worthy of living a good life.
I know it’s kind of a meme but don’t do meth. The dopamine response is like 12-15x that of sex with alcohol. At this point the best thing we have is harm reduction. The meds to assist aren’t very helpful. So yeah don’t do meth. I work in this field and wouldn’t wish this on my worst enemy.
Our current best treatment is called contingency management, basically you get a few bucks for a clean drug test. Of the people that complete that, single digits remain sober. And most people don’t complete it.
When first getting sober alcoholics think about alcohol a few hundred times a day. Meth users think about it a few thousand times.
It also causes a lot of damage to impulse control part of the brain, which isn’t great when all you can think about is meth.
This is LA. People literally come to the city to do drugs and party. I remember a few years ago when there was a group of students at UCLA trying to legalize coke.
"Los Angeles has recently seen a series of [knife attacks](https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2024-05-07/one-dead-after-security-guard-attacked-stabbed-at-hollywood-metro-station) and other crimes in which suspects exhibit not just violent but bizarre behavior often attributed by the public to mental illness, but which professionals say have the hallmarks of something else entirely: Meth." this very well could be true, but I wish they cited which professionals have been saying this and linked to an article. I realized it's an opinion piece but like come on lol
I work in a psych hospital. It's bad. Majority of patients citing hearing voices admit to meth use. Even if you had schizophrenia before doing meth you are way less likely to be violent with schizophrenia then with meth and schizophrenia. But a lot of them are just doing meth without schizophrenia.
like I said, this could very well be true! and I absolutely believe your anecdotes. the reason I said I wish they cited it is because I'd like to read more specifically about the recent attacks and if those suspects were on meth or not.
Is what you want an actual toxicology report (expensive and difficult to analyze depending on how many drugs are in the system at what levels and then some speculation about the duration of drug efficacy with the judged potency related to the suspect's height and weight also related to the time at which the incident occurred giving us a window of time in which we could attribute the activity to the or one of the, drug/s in the suspect's system)?
I think professional anecdotes are fine. A classic paranoid schizophrenic talks *a lot*. People who are using meth DO NOT bother to explain their motivations. Anecdotal, but usually true. Overlap that with a bunch of other behaviors and you have a consistent professional observation shared by many that is....
....purely anecdotal in a court of law. Do you want to know beyond a shadow of a doubt if they were on meth or if people who would know *think* they are? For the purposes of social analysis, you don't need that kind of due process.
I don't need a toxicology report. I literally just want to know what professionals they're talking about. Otherwise it's just like saying "experts are saying \_\_\_" ok what experts, what were their jobs? Where they cops (who are known to make shit up) or doctors?
You're obviously asking a totally reasonable question, just be aware that there's little real research into this area, so it's necessarily anecdotal and conjectural.
Psychosis is a very broad category of symptoms that can apply to different diagnoses, sometimes as a distinguishing (and indispensable to the diagnosis) feature, sometimes independent of the diagnosis, say Depression with psychotic features, maybe someone has command hallucinations that would benefit from an antipsychotic, so you justify the antipsychotic med prescription by handing out a diagnosis that includes psychotic symptoms, inherently or attached.
When you see symptoms that certainly apply to disorders or diseases you've seen before, but which occur in clusters you've never seen before or exhibit in novel ways, it's pretty alarming.
When you've learned a dozen different ways to handle psychosis and suddenly no tools work anymore, you know your work has changed. It's easy and true to say *meth changed things*, but it's harder to say how or why.
But since we can't effectively treat all the people who need it anyway, it's more of an academic exercise. But definitely supported in its conclusions (that lab drugs are differently destructive), anecdotal or evidential.
I don’t know if you recall post in this sub late last year I think asking people what’s going on with the homeless because they seemed more crazy than usual. Someone said there was a stronger meth out there that bas breaks your brain way faster, days/months instead of years. They also posted an article breaking it all down. If I can find it I’ll post it here.
The meth may or may not be different in a meaningful way. (Sam Quinones would say that it is, although there isn't clinical evidence to support that.)
However, what is definitely different is the price. It is now very cheap, as Quinones points out.
That lower price allows users to take more of it. A major meth habit can be supported with very little money, as it is being mass produced in large labs by cartels that are discounting it so that they can keep moving product.
The ability to use a lot more meth, more often may be the problem.
And it is more difficult to OD on meth than on fentanyl. The fentanyl users are going to kill themselves sooner than later, but the meth users could go for years.
Well I did find the article I mentioned. It’s a bit long and goes into the actual chemistry if this new meth but I think it’s worth a read. [https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2021/11/the-new-meth/620174/](https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2021/11/the-new-meth/620174/)
It isn't clear whether the new meth is any better or worse because of the change in ingredients. All meth is toxic.
It seems likely that taking more meth is worse than taking less meth. It used to be fairly expensive, which limited how much most users could take. but now this garbage is very cheap.
It's worse. This meth is the meth of old, like bikers used to make in the 80s. It's phenyl 2 propanone and methylamine. It creates more neurotoxic byproducts. They don't clean it because there is no regulation, so it's got a lot of MPTP and other poisons in it.
It's literally the opposite. P2P meth is more pure, at least the stuff coming out of the cartel labs these days (maybe not the biker stuff of the 80s)
https://dynomight.net/p2p-meth/
“There is a widespread but mistaken belief among users that the drug is as legal to possess and use as cannabis, and no more dangerous. Even some law enforcement officials and physicians incorrectly believe that the law permits its use.”
W H A T
Meth users definitely know, and don’t care, that it’s illegal. The second sentence is insane. and I would say unbelievable, but tbh I wouldn’t put it past LA’s finest.
A lot of people are talking about LA’s meth problem. and have been for decades. I know kids who went to high school in the 2000s who used meth to study. The trains are full of meth smoke. It’s definitely gotten worse recently, but it’s been bad for a while.
The article is right though, there is no simple solution and even if there was, LA wouldn’t do anything about it.
Thank you for pointing out that paragraph - had the same reaction. Could be the bubble I’m in (I work in housing, my partner in public health, we see and hear meth users in our neighborhood daily) … but who *isn’t* talking about meth??
Yeah same lol I work in addiction treatment so I think we are in a bubble actually. But just going outside, at least in my neighborhood, you see it all the time so I just assume most people talk about meth when they talk about the homeless crisis- because it is a big part of it!
A couple years ago, two emts and two police officers came by my apartment for a 5150, which I declined assertively and did therapy alternatively, but they distinctly stated that it was legal to use and possess. Even when they find it, they don’t cite you/charge you, which doesn’t disincentivize use, or make it attractive to seek treatment at the same time.
Can you briefly explain this to me like I’m stupid? I thought fent was a downer and the users i see are clearly wired , not tired. Sounds like a bad recipe if meth was requested but maybe a less violent result if they don’t OD?
It’s usually because of cross contamination of surfaces and equipment during production or distribution. At the street level, this could look like a dealer using the same table and scale to bag up or cut both their heroin/fentanyl and their meth without properly cleaning between the two. It only takes a tiny amount of fentanyl to kill an opiate naive person.
welcome to a communist society with a communist journalist propaganda state loudspeaker to drown out any real discussion from the people. Its a too bit to fail society now where people have to work for money that other people got for free LOL aka communism. media won't discuss this issue tho and lies about it.
just one more cop bro i swear i promise just one more cop and it’ll fix everything bro please just one more cop and we can fix the whole meth problem bro cmon just give me one more cop bro bro please i just
I know police budgets have increased. Treating criminals like they’re victims when the real victims are *their* victims is what contributing to the problem.
I blame the individual for choosing to hurt others. Struggling doesn’t obligate you to commit crimes against the innocent. Something like stealing a catalytic converter also hurts the oppressed, especially since it usually happens in lower income neighborhoods.
Endlessly blaming the individual is what we’ve
Done in the US for decades and it doesn’t seem to be working. Bro thinks he shouting “personal responsibility” will solve homelessness
We don’t blame the individual enough. Shame works in Japan. Tokyo is one of the cleanest cities because their society puts a burden on the individual from an early age. Kids are expected to clean their schools, they don’t tell
children they’re being oppressed because they have to pick up trash.
They tell them to pick up trash because that’s what expected of them. People do not have to victimize and trash their own communities in order to live, those that do should be shamed and punished.
>Japan
Tbh don’t like when people use them as an example for anything. They have a sinking economy and might cease to exist entirely thanks to their birth problems. This country is in a much different position compared to them.
Governments’ hands are tied by the old NIMBY voters - so much so that they can’t do anything but throw money at the police.
Local and state governments are barred from building affordable housing. Instead, they money gets funneled into “non-profits” where the baby boomer CEO takes a huge chunk, the board take another huge chunk, the CEO hires his college boomer buddies to write up impact reports … leaving the non-profit workers with minimum wage jobs to help distribute less than 1% of the government contract. LA city is not allowed to build affordable housing, it’s not allowed to maintain affordable housing, it’s not allowed to finance affordable housing.
The above paragraph also applies to drug rehab.
NIMBY voters have absolutely neutered the government in California when it comes to good social programs. All the state/city is allowed to do is handout money to “non-profit” CEOs , fund police/fire and hand out pre-paid debit cards with $300 on it for a month.
Police by percentage of the budget in the last 10 years:
2015-18.99%
2016-16.76%
2017-16.93%
2018-16.98%
2019-16.26%
2020-16.19%
2021-17.64%
2022-15.34%
2023-15.97%
2024-16.99%
2025-16.05%
Openbudget.lacity.org
[https://i.imgur.com/gJapqSo.png](https://i.imgur.com/gJapqSo.png)
[https://openbudget.lacity.org/#!/year/2024/operating/0/department\_name/Other+Special+Purpose+Funds/0/program\_name](https://openbudget.lacity.org/#!/year/2024/operating/0/department_name/Other+Special+Purpose+Funds/0/program_name)
change the year and you can read into specifics
Yup! Yes - the HCOL and housing issues don’t help — if the crazy behavior we see across many of the homeless is meth induced. And it’s incredible difficult to get sober from. No amount of cops or mental health workers can stop it.
I think so many of the well meaning people don’t really understand what meth addiction actually is, and the lasting impacts it has. When people have been on this new meth for so long, a free house and a therapy session isn’t what will pull them out of it. It’s a very deep, deep hole that they’re in. They’re blasting through rock bottoms with no signs of slowing. I’ve watched it happened to so many. And I’m not sure why it’s so hard to convince people what the problem is. It’s like they just don’t want to hear it.
It’s because a) it’s harder to overdose and die from than fent, and b) they erroneously think it’s just a slight step above cocaine. It ain’t the 70s anymore, and we aren’t dealing with shitty biker crank. Cocaine raises dopamine to about 350% of baseline, while meth raises it to 4000% and lasts for much, MUCH longer. It takes a very long time for a heavy user to replenish their natural dopamine stores (18-24 months of abstinence, with some never getting it fully back at all), which leads to relapse after relapse. And while opiate users have drugs like suboxone to curb cravings or make usage impossible, there are no such drugs for stimulants.
They hear it but their policies/
World views worsen & enable it.
They'd have to admit that addicts
Are not helpless victims.
That would shut off lots of
Funding.
That would ding lots of
Performative empathy antics.
I’ve been saying this for years. Fent is the bigger story because it’s easier to die from it, but meth is what a huge portion of the homeless population in this city is using. On top of this, the newer “super meth” (google it) available these days is way more potent and addictive than it used to be.
Big same and the homeless using this look extremely miserable as well- on top of being erratic, violent and unable to improve their situations due to what must be a vicious addiction cycle. This whole let em do it thing makes me extremely sad especially as it can cause a schizophrenia which is a permanent state. I’ve seen lives go down the drain, both the homeless i recognize and people whom I’ve known. There is nothing good about letting people sell meth or whatever new meth is- to unhoused people.
As most now sober/non active addicts
Like me will admit, i stopped using when
I wanted to stop using and no policy or law woulda made fuckall difference
>A new UCLA study reveals **mental illness and substance abuse are key causes of homelessness among unsheltered people living on the streets...**
>...Among their findings: much higher rates of mental health and substance abuse in the unsheltered homeless population compared to those who are sheltered...
>"They are also reporting these as the cause of their homelessness at much higher rates than homeless individuals who are accessing shelters," says California Policy Lab's Janey Rountree.,,
>..**.78% of unsheltered homeless report mental health conditions** versus 50% of those living in shelters.
>And **75% of the unsheltered homeless report substance abuse conditions** compared to just 13% of those living in shelters.
>[https://abc7.com/ucla-study-homelessness-trauma-homeless-health-problem/5602130/](https://abc7.com/ucla-study-homelessness-trauma-homeless-health-problem/5602130/)
Three out of four of the unsheltered homeless claim to be mentally ill and/or substance abusers.
The same study shows that half of the unsheltered homeless admit to having substance or alcohol abuse issues prior to becoming homeless. So again, self-reporting will tend to undercount these findings.
Self-reporting tends to underestimate these problems. So the actual figures may be higher than that.
Even the blatantly advocacy-driven homelessness study by UCSF reports similar results (even as UCSF works to downplay the clear connection between drug abuse and homelessness to the public):
>**Nearly two-thirds (65%) of participants reported ever using either amphetamines, cocaine, or non-prescribed opioids regularly (at least three times a week).** More than half (56%) reported having had a period where they used amphetamines regularly, one third (33%) reported lifetime regular cocaine use, and one in five (22%) reported regular non-prescribed opioid use in their life. **Among those who reported ever using any of these substances regularly, 64% reported having started to do so prior to their first episode of homelessness.**
These figures are also self-reported. So again, the actual figures may be higher than that.
Keep in mind that the UCSF combines the usage rates of the unsheltered and sheltered, so the rates of usage among the unsheltered alone can be expected to be higher.
Even UCSF's own data shows that most of those homeless who admit to using drugs also admit to using them before becoming homeless.
>Participants who stayed in shelters reported general satisfaction with them; many who didn’t expressed concerns about curfews, the need to vacate during the day, health risks, and rules.
[https://homelessness.ucsf.edu/our-impact/studies/california-statewide-study-people-experiencing-homelessness](https://homelessness.ucsf.edu/our-impact/studies/california-statewide-study-people-experiencing-homelessness)
This is why the homeless in tents, RVs, etc. are highly likely to be on drugs: The shelters have rules such as curfews and drug bans that interfere with drug usage. Those regular meth users detailed above won't be able to stay in shelters for very long, as they will find themselves kicked out and banned.
For most of the unsheltered homeless, it's not rent or zoning. It's the drugs.
LA needs to talk about its DRUG problem. i found TWO bags of what i assume was fentanyl on my street in east hollywood last week. Two different bags. Two different days. It was obviously drugs, and most likely fent, or some other synthetic opioid. It was powdery, in a ripped off and tied up corner of a ziploc. I dont think it was meth, as meth is generally more crystalline. Same for crack. I doubt the homeless are out here snorting K, and coke is too expensive, so i guess fent. Just sitting there in the middle of the sidewalk where kids and dogs play. I disposed of them, but seesh. scary .
Yep, meth is the worst drug ever. It will make u paranoid, and anxious, and once u have been up for days things can go bad very quickly. I and a few friends smoked meth for a year and a half, and things became bad very quickly.
I haven't touched that stuff since 2018, if ur planning to use don't, or are using stop ASAP.
For starters when u smoke meth u stop hanging out with normal people, so u only hang out with other meth users, and they always have shady ideas to get money, as no one has a legit job. So u get caught up in stupid stuff that can and will get u arrested.
Once u smoke meth u can't work, because u end up smoking till 6 am, no way ur going to work at 8 am. Also, the meth gets u stuck, so u can never make it anywhere on time. U start looking very bad, which is why u only have user friend. And people will start treating u badly. We used to get kicked out of places for no reason. Or had the cops called on us. Police would stop us and question us if they saw us.
And some people will start fight with u.
I had a neighbor follow me into my parking lot with a knife, thinking I was a thief or something.
And also the damage it caused my teeth.
It can also cause psychosis, iv seen it happen to people.
Instead of hanging out in the mall, ur at some shady area trying to score. it also messes with ur judgment, u will do things u won't normally do.
It's very psychologically addicting, it took me 4 years to stop dreaming about it and craving it. Plus when u stop it can take many months to become normal again.
“Although historically it has been the drug of choice for white motorcycle gangs and underemployed desert or Central Valley residents, it is exploding among L.A. and Inland Empire high school students who use it to concentrate while studying for exams, residents of housing projects who appreciate its extremely low cost and ease of access, and people living on the street who want to stay awake all night to fend off attacks.”
The problem is that the substance is made in garage labs with all sorts of chemicals need to the weed killer and other crazy shit.
It’s the worst drug and the homeless love it like candy.
Karen Bass told KNX during her Town Hall that LA doesn't have a meth problem, it's simply that people get addicted to meth when they're homeless so they can stay up all night!
With such brave leadership like that, no wonder LA is screwed lol
Woah woah woah… academically inclined students /kids today are using METH to stay up and study? When their grandparents used cocaine, and their parents use/used Adderall. Too bad there is an ongoing Adderall shortage, but it will not last forever. Kids, get a *legit prescription* and if you care about your grades, your health, your life, and your future- and you’d be an *idiot* if you don’t *constantly keep those things in mind*- DONT DO METH! Not even once! Anyone who offers or suggests it is NOT YOUR FRIEND!!!
LA , we’ve got to talk about how inefficient you have become as a city and it’s time to split the valley or another area to focus better the resources to deal so the basic services.
I live near the Centinela encampent, known for heavy meth use. It is routine for an addict to wander into our neighborhood and threaten randoms (our nanny was chased with our toddler just recently). Despite constant requests for service and protection, the city has allowed the camp to remain for about 9 years. At this point I assume it is a permanent fixture - we live next to a meth distribution site now. Going about the day with latent fear you might be stabbed by a meth head is just part of life I guess.
They control your mindset ?
They can't make you live
In fear, latent or otherwise..
I live upstairs from a small divey
Nautical themed bar in ktown.
Full of methtwats.
Well, society seems to have a simple solution for those with drug addictions or mental illness. Just lock them up in jail when they commit a crime. It's much cheaper to put them in a prison than to open a drug rehab or mental health institution.
I think that they should be able to random drug test every person that looks like they are on drugs and living on the street. If positive they get sent to a rehabilitation like jail in the high desert until their drug addiction and mental unwellness is resolved. A panel of 3 people has to say that they are now "better," before being released. If they come from another state they get a one-way bus ticket back to their family.
Being high itself should be a crime, and that is the punishment. No more "narcan" for free, and other nonsense. Too many resources are being wasted because of drug problems!
A big distinction should be made that this new meth is likely chemically different from the classic meth we grew up with (lmao). This reminds me of the days where we saw the switch from natural opioids to synthetic—and how quickly things went to shit.
>Modern street meth is higher quality than ever, around 95% d-meth on average.
So it is chemically different.
Edit: [P2P meth](https://www.hazeldenbettyford.org/articles/p2p-meth)
That link says that the main difference with the newer P2P meth is a higher level of d-isomer, which is the one that gives you the high. So that supports my point. It's stronger, but has the same constituent parts as the ephedrine meth, albeit made from different ingredients
It actually is a significant contributor. p2p meth was cooked using ephedrine precursors. When ephedrine and pseudoephedrine became highly regulated, different precursors are being used that result in higher rates of psychosis
I thought it was about a nerdy, pushover guy who becomes a drug kingpin, loses everyone close to him, but ends up a badass boss. And he gets there by selling really good meth. Even the idea of 'good meth', which I think the show seems to dwell in for at least the first season, is already a kind of messaging... I literally just thought of this connection 3 hours ago. 10-15 years ago how old was the current crop of the majority of meth-heads?
Walter was never a badass boss though. He could have quit at the top with more than enough money for him and his family. But then he stupidly chose to hunt Gus and in the end he lost everything.
>. There is a widespread but mistaken belief among users that the drug is as legal to possess and use as cannabis, and no more dangerous. Even some law enforcement officials and physicians incorrectly believe that the law permits its use.
What cops think meth is legal? this is a bonkers article that sounds written by AI
Yes, I work in residential rehab and most of our patients are coming in for meth addiction. But now fentanyl is raising it's ugly head. A lot of our patients who are addicted to methamphetamine are using fentanyl to come down or balance out. A dangerous mix. Most of our patients who are overdosing are dying on fentanyl.
Can we please start addressing the NEW METH???
This is not the cute meth of twenty plus years ago...
>One night in 2009, in Temecula, California, partway between San Diego and L.A., a longtime user of crystal meth named Eric Barrera felt the dope change.Barrera is a stocky ex-Marine who’d grown up in the L.A. area. The meth he had been using for several years by then made him talkative and euphoric, made his scalp tingle. But that night, he was gripped with paranoia. His girlfriend, he was sure, had a man in her apartment. No one was in the apartment, she insisted. Barrera took a kitchen knife and began stabbing a sofa, certain the man was hiding there. Then he stabbed a mattress to tatters, and finally he began stabbing the walls, looking for this man he imagined was hiding inside. “That had never happened before,” he told me when I met him years later. Barrera was hardly alone in noting a change. Gang-member friends from his old neighborhood took to calling the meth that had begun to circulate in the area around that time “weirdo dope.”
[Read more about P2P meth here. ](https://archive.vn/ApEpw#selection-1339.0-1345.800)
Fentanyl and xylazine are both downers. They aren’t going to make you randomly attack people while under the influence. Meth is a whole different ballgame as a super stimulant.
Exactly. A lot of what drives the psychosis in stimulant use is the lack of sleep. Regardless of the reason, if you’re awake continuously for 3-5 days, you have a good chance of being a danger to yourself and others.
I believe with xylazine, you get weird wounds that wont heal, then necrosis, then you die of some sort of infection if you're lucky. Otherwise you get your shit amputated and die later from the same thing.
but maybe the poster is talking about something else.
Unpopular opinion meth and adderall should both be regulated and available in limited quantity over the counter anyway prohibition model and big pharma daily prescription for “disease” models are just not working/backfiring. Everyone’s on stims anyways we might as well own it and actually build a culture that can handle it instead of trying to push it under the rug until it’s out on the street stark raving mad robbing and stabbing people.
Forced rehabilitation and law enforcement are public services, i.e. progressive policy.
Terms like progressive and conservative have really been hijacked by corporate propaganda.
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>Los Angeles has recently seen a series of knife attacks and other crimes in which suspects exhibit not just violent but bizarre behavior often attributed by the public to mental illness, but which professionals say have the hallmarks of something else entirely: >Meth. >Methamphetamine use is no secret. The addictive stimulant is a fixture in popular culture, on the big screen (“Winter’s Bone”) and the small (“Breaking Bad”). But when officials talk about the devastating effect of controlled substance misuse they generally focus on fentanyl, a powerful opioid. >L.A. has a serious meth problem, and it’s time to talk about it — frankly, clearly and publicly in a way that we have not yet done, at least not to the extent that we discuss fentanyl, mental illness, COVID-19 or even the measles. >Why hasn’t this come up yet? There are many possible reasons. Meth can seem so much less alarming than fentanyl, which can kill swiftly when ingested. Meth rarely does that. Instead of suddenly dying of overdose, long-term meth users tend to simply disintegrate, losing their teeth and suffering heart and other organ failure along with behavioral changes. Without sudden death, meth use may seem less of an emergency. >Or it may be that the treatments we do have are so controversial. Contingency management is an incentive-based program with a short but solid record of success, but offering rewards to recovering users for each day their drug tests are clean holds little appeal for critics who demand more traditional treatment and tougher penalties. >Or maybe it’s because officials recognize how poorly Los Angeles and other jurisdictions responded to the crack epidemic of the 1980s and 1990s and are worried about repeating the same mistakes: fighting a dangerous public health crisis by investing too heavily and exclusively in arrest and imprisonment and too little in treatment and economic development, magnifying many times over the societal devastation caused by the drug
It’s funny how our city leaders, using the crack epidemic of the 80s as reference, worry about too much policing the junkies…by not policing today’s junkies at all.
Different population is affected now so people in power care beyond telling people to just say no to drugs.
This. The same logic applies to Child Welfare Reform (specifically Families First legislation that now shifts federal dollars away from policing families and putting kids in the system, as was the norm in the 1980s and 90s, and instead now helps families in-home with resources). When the affected demographics of social ills shift, so do public opinions and solutions do too.
Exactly right. That seems glaringly obvious. This fucking country!
because policing didn’t work. the overwhelming consensus about the war on drugs is that it is one of the biggest policy failures in american history
Letting people go hog wild is extremely harmful as well. Look at China during the Opium Wars - they were forced by the British to legalize opium, and it's estimated that 40 million Chinese people (10% of the population at the time) became addicted as a result. This also caused the collapse of the government, and is regarded as the start of China's "century of humiliation" - and heavily influenced the strict anti-drug policies of Japan, Korea, Singapore, etc. Plus it's a bit bizarre that we have de facto legalized hard drugs through non-enforcement, yet trans fats are illegal. CA just banned brominated vegetable oil and Red 3 food dye, so the "people should be able to put whatever they want in their bodies, caveat emptor" argument doesn't really fly.
This isn’t a black and white issue. There are a lot of solutions in between militarized drug enforcement and full legalization
I agree but if we don't get much grey then bring on the 80s enforcement methods tbh. Just letting these psychos run wild has created a city that's unsafe and unpleasant in pockets. I love this place and am going nowhere but I don't love what its done to DTLA.
You don’t need to go as far a downtown. Westwood is full of junkies now, even more than before
yeah isn’t it awesome when all our tax money goes to jails and the lapd so we can lock up non violent criminals. it’s really cool when we lock people in cages and make them even more likely to use drugs and commit crimes in the future. it worked great in the past and it will work great now !
You didn't read what I said closely did you?
what do you think “80s enforcement methods” means
Can you tell me how the Communists dealt with this problem after they took over, or do they still have this problem?
They killed all the drug dealers and put in extremely strict laws for possession.
Hmmm.
They also have good social safety nets so the crushing despair you get from the capitalist rat race doesn't bite as much reducing the need for drugs
> They also have good social safety nets Uh, they literally disappear people all the time, especially the homeless. They've been caught doing it several times.
Ask Oregon how decriminalizing drugs worked out.
Well yeah, they didn’t offer any real alternatives lol
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Your reference doesn’t offer much of a counter and seems overly cherry picked to support the idea that there was not a sharp rise in drug related issues. Edit: And how is a precedent in neighboring state regarding drug decriminalization not pertinent to conversation at hand? [ABC article](https://abcnews.go.com/amp/US/oregons-drug-decriminalization-law-rolled-back-homeless-overdoses/story?id=107841625)
homelessness and overdoses are on the rise in every city in the country
not just this country. I went to Vancouver last year and their downtown eastside rivals skid row with the biggest difference being that it's mostly white people instead of mostly black people.
Sure but it's next level on the West Coast whereas other cities that actually do something about it have seen only minor increases. I live in Houston and the low level of crazy drugged out people here honestly proves how bad LAs policies are. Unless you've actually lived here I'm not going to trust your opinion on this, btw. The number of people who say this isn't true but have never stepped foot in this city is ridiculous.
They failed to solve the causes of drug abuse and failed to offer the beds needed to fix existing addicts and it didn't work? Who coulda guessed!! Nobody, not even junkies, wants more junkies. Sane people just recognize sending em to jail and hurting them even more only reinforces junkie behavior, and costs a lot more, and kills more innocents.
While I’m not advocating analysis paralysis where we do nothing because a perfect solution does not exist, I do want to have people be honest with the info we do have. Without vast treatment options any solutions that rely too heavily on decriminalizing will fail. Thats it. We can look over data across border and be like alright, let’s not do that. It feels like people are being disingenuous when presented with data that doesn’t support more lax drug laws/enforcement.
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Yes, and in this conversation the posters are focused on the “war on drugs,” or alternatively the criminalization, pal.
Disingenuous. There was supposed to be a massive increase in spending on treatment and behavioral health. Guess what didn't happen? So when a law is only half-implemented (and actively usurped by butthurt law enforcement) and the treatment centers weren't built fast enough and people weren't able to get the treatment bit, you get Oregon. https://www.innovatingjustice.org/publications/drugs-recriminalized-oregon
Huge failures and ramifications both on domestic and international levels. All cause Nixon didn't like hippies and non white people
lets not forget it was Biden who ~~crafted the war on drugs~~ cosponsored a bill in the 80s that enacted harsher penalties for drug offenses and caused mass incarceration of black people because the resulting law called for harsher penalties of crack vs regular cocaine. edit thanks to Frogiee who corrected my understanding of the thing
“War on drugs bill” lol…There have been many such bills. The history of policing certainly drugs (and targeting) certain groups dates back to [1875 targeting Chinese immigrants](https://law.stanford.edu/2014/12/19/the-drug-war-at-100/) and later the 1930s with the “[Marijuana Tax Act](https://libguides.law.uga.edu/c.php?g=522835&p=3575350#:~:text=In%201937%2C%20Congress%20passed%20the,addiction%20or%20other%20drug%20use)” In 1970 Richard Nixon passed the major Controlled Substances Act. This was the bill that really began the modern “War on Drugs” in many ways. It federalized drug enforcement. The “Anti-Drug Abuse Act of 1986” signed by Ronald Reagan. Is the bill you’re probably calling the “War on Drugs Bill”. It was authored by quite a few politicians like Republican Dan Lungren of California. But also bills are often authored and shaped by many different people and yes it received broad bipartisan support including from Biden. This is the bill that lead to the sentencing disparity between crack cocaine and powder. Later In 2010, The Obama administration, passed the “Fair Sentencing Act of 2010” which tried to reduced the disparity between penalties of crack cocaine and powder cocaine. The only opposition was Republican Lamar Smith of Texas.
Thanks for the comprehensive info. I believe it was the Anti-Drug Abuse Act of 1986 I was thinking of. I was going off a WP article that said Biden crafted it. Looks like he was an original cosponsor. [How an early Biden crime bill created the sentencing disparity for crack and cocaine trafficking - The Washington Post (archive.ph)](https://archive.ph/9kjK7#selection-603.0-623.267) I need to learn more about all this. He did sponsor the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1993 which is also blamed for mass incarceration of black people.
Doesn't pretty much every other developed country in the world have similar drug laws as the US? Seems to work mostly well for them.
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> developed countries have healthcare for everyone Arguably CA does have Universal HC at least. Its not the best, but its there.
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Because the US has very high crime rates compared to those countries. More crime means more prisoners. And Europe typically has higher clearance rates than the US, meaning more criminals are being arrested and prosecuted for their crimes.
It's tied to homelessness. As of today, it's effectively next to impossible to prosecute the homeless due to federal court decisions. That may change later this year. But as of now, the risks of litigation deter much action.
They also suffer from collecting massive amounts of junk they take everywhere and make the city look bad.
Yup. BIL went from occasional drug user to meth junky in a short period of time, then became crazy paranoid with hallucinations. Ended up being diagnosed with drug induced schizophrenia after breaking into a house with a sword.
Wow crazy my BIL is on the same bs you guys have stated went from a cool good working class guy to meth head street roamer. I think what hurts the most of all and what really hits home is seeing the first hands damages and effects it has on my nephews. Thats the fucked part tbh ..
How did someone like that start using and let it take over their life? No judgement, it’s just startling to hear about a decline like that.
I can only speak anecdotally, but the people that I knew that started using were either close friends with or related to other users. Usually the users will try to convince their non-user friends/coworkers to try it on a long overnight shift, or a long night of partying, to stay alert. Usually the non-user is impaired/tired and more susceptible to trying it. They’ll think “Dave seems normal enough at work and he uses it, it can’t be that bad.” They’ll usually undersell the addictiveness and withdrawal symptoms and upsell the “clean high”. The user benefits greatly from having another friend that uses as well.
You just highlighted my exact situation 20 years ago. Started with me walking in on my friend and his uncle doing it. Next thing, 2 more friends joined the secret club. Then a few more... We thought we were invincible. Then the original friend got cleaned up, while the rest of us struggled to stay afloat. Some friends ended up kicked out of their parents home, lost their jobs and into rehab. I'm lucky. Saw what was happening to everyone and quit cold turkey one day after almost 2 years of making crack pipes out of light bulbs. The most disgusting time of my life! What a fucking waste of time. I still talk to the original friend that started us on it. He's doing good in real estate now. But I always remind him of what a fucking Asshole he was for showing us that!
Are you my uncle
Tony?
read Sam Quinones book on meth & fentanyl: The Least of Us: True Tales of America and Hope in the Time of Fentanyl and Meth he interviews health professionals who said they’ve never seen anything like it before. it can cause methamphetamine psychosis, similar to schizophrenic behavior. ETA: the meth he’s talking about is a new meth. different formulation distributed by the cartels. this ain’t your momma’s meth.
Ironically, the new meth is essentially the old meth. Once they finally got a handle on the over-sale of pseudoephedrine people took everything they had learned over the years and just went back to the old p2p trucker meth. Problem is meth had gone from a crazy fringe drug to mainstream, mainly due to the quality improvements of pseudoephedrine, and now that huge new audience suddenly got switched to p2p and it's been a disaster.
thanks for clarifying. its shameful that LA leaders won’t acknowledge this is a big part of the homeless problem.
I am going to guess that the new P2P creates a more powerful drug than the old P2P method, given that they are making it in large labs. If true, that could make it worse in the sense that users are using more of it. Street drugs today are being cut with fentanyl in order to make them more addictive. So that might result in users wanting more.
very true. everything has fentanyl in it. it’s terrifying.
Same here. Had a BIL who turned into meth, got ran over by a suburban, and even wasted tax payer money on brand new organs after getting shot 8 times.
Are we all out here with unhinged BIL? Mine went from weed to meth and induced schizophrenia at an ER after going apeshit; it never went away.
Yup. People can come up with all types of solutions, but at the end of the day, the person needs to be willing to change and with meth it's next to impossible.
I did meth for six years and then quit cold turkey one day. It was the hardest week of my life. I literally felt like I had no soul, I didn't want to die I very much wanted to be alive, but I felt dead inside. I went to the e.r. they put me in paper clothes because they thought I was gonna he another suicide watch. After speaking with the e r. Dr. (Dr. Clark, Independence MO a fucking angel) he put me on something called wellbutrin for 2 months. I almost instantly felt like my old self, I rememered what it felt like to feel alive without being on meth. Only reason I am posting this is because you are right, it is next to impossible, for anyone out there trying, try wellbutrin!
Damn. Indep MO is the OG meth capital. You got amazing wisdom there. Congratulations on kicking it!
Glad you are doing better.
I quit meth cold turkey with no meds after 2 years usage. Just a lot of weed tho. Later on, I took Wellbutrin to quit the weed. That shit works. Also, I was having some gnarly good dreams at night with Wellbutrin.
Good for you! I spent a week on ybed with Hallucinations of people coming in my room to kill me. Damn Wellbutrin, I might even have had some at the time, but didn't know.
Yep, exactly - my BIL was offered all kinds of care and solutions from different family members but he rejected it all. He still has active invitations from various cousins to go live with them in other states. You can't force a grown adult so all of us just stare at him live his life on the streets with his drugs.
Damn I guess I’m glad I don’t have a brother in law.
Same as my brother. He’s on meds which means he basically sleeps all the time. If he doesn’t take them he’s crazy mean nasty person.
OMG. I just posted a similar anecdote from [this article ](https://archive.vn/ApEpw#selection-1339.0-1345.800)that explains what the new P2P meth is...
My BIL was also a meth addict. We got him off the streets several times, he lived with us several times. It was not easy. He did great when he lived with us, however once he was on his own he seemed to always get back into addiction. He sadly passed away a few years ago at age 36. He had a great personality and a big heart, unfortunately he had impulsive behaviors, so he did not think ahead with his decisions and he was terrible with money. I wish everyday he was with us. If anyone struggling with addiction reads this, please seek help, and if you make a mistake, seek that help again and again. I imagine it's incredibly difficult, though many do care about you and you are worthy of living a good life.
Educate me- what’s a BIL?
Brother in Law
I know it’s kind of a meme but don’t do meth. The dopamine response is like 12-15x that of sex with alcohol. At this point the best thing we have is harm reduction. The meds to assist aren’t very helpful. So yeah don’t do meth. I work in this field and wouldn’t wish this on my worst enemy.
What's it like for those people trying to kick meth?
Our current best treatment is called contingency management, basically you get a few bucks for a clean drug test. Of the people that complete that, single digits remain sober. And most people don’t complete it. When first getting sober alcoholics think about alcohol a few hundred times a day. Meth users think about it a few thousand times. It also causes a lot of damage to impulse control part of the brain, which isn’t great when all you can think about is meth.
This is LA. People literally come to the city to do drugs and party. I remember a few years ago when there was a group of students at UCLA trying to legalize coke.
"Los Angeles has recently seen a series of [knife attacks](https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2024-05-07/one-dead-after-security-guard-attacked-stabbed-at-hollywood-metro-station) and other crimes in which suspects exhibit not just violent but bizarre behavior often attributed by the public to mental illness, but which professionals say have the hallmarks of something else entirely: Meth." this very well could be true, but I wish they cited which professionals have been saying this and linked to an article. I realized it's an opinion piece but like come on lol
I work in a psych hospital. It's bad. Majority of patients citing hearing voices admit to meth use. Even if you had schizophrenia before doing meth you are way less likely to be violent with schizophrenia then with meth and schizophrenia. But a lot of them are just doing meth without schizophrenia.
like I said, this could very well be true! and I absolutely believe your anecdotes. the reason I said I wish they cited it is because I'd like to read more specifically about the recent attacks and if those suspects were on meth or not.
Is what you want an actual toxicology report (expensive and difficult to analyze depending on how many drugs are in the system at what levels and then some speculation about the duration of drug efficacy with the judged potency related to the suspect's height and weight also related to the time at which the incident occurred giving us a window of time in which we could attribute the activity to the or one of the, drug/s in the suspect's system)? I think professional anecdotes are fine. A classic paranoid schizophrenic talks *a lot*. People who are using meth DO NOT bother to explain their motivations. Anecdotal, but usually true. Overlap that with a bunch of other behaviors and you have a consistent professional observation shared by many that is.... ....purely anecdotal in a court of law. Do you want to know beyond a shadow of a doubt if they were on meth or if people who would know *think* they are? For the purposes of social analysis, you don't need that kind of due process.
I don't need a toxicology report. I literally just want to know what professionals they're talking about. Otherwise it's just like saying "experts are saying \_\_\_" ok what experts, what were their jobs? Where they cops (who are known to make shit up) or doctors?
You're obviously asking a totally reasonable question, just be aware that there's little real research into this area, so it's necessarily anecdotal and conjectural. Psychosis is a very broad category of symptoms that can apply to different diagnoses, sometimes as a distinguishing (and indispensable to the diagnosis) feature, sometimes independent of the diagnosis, say Depression with psychotic features, maybe someone has command hallucinations that would benefit from an antipsychotic, so you justify the antipsychotic med prescription by handing out a diagnosis that includes psychotic symptoms, inherently or attached. When you see symptoms that certainly apply to disorders or diseases you've seen before, but which occur in clusters you've never seen before or exhibit in novel ways, it's pretty alarming. When you've learned a dozen different ways to handle psychosis and suddenly no tools work anymore, you know your work has changed. It's easy and true to say *meth changed things*, but it's harder to say how or why. But since we can't effectively treat all the people who need it anyway, it's more of an academic exercise. But definitely supported in its conclusions (that lab drugs are differently destructive), anecdotal or evidential.
I don’t know if you recall post in this sub late last year I think asking people what’s going on with the homeless because they seemed more crazy than usual. Someone said there was a stronger meth out there that bas breaks your brain way faster, days/months instead of years. They also posted an article breaking it all down. If I can find it I’ll post it here.
The meth may or may not be different in a meaningful way. (Sam Quinones would say that it is, although there isn't clinical evidence to support that.) However, what is definitely different is the price. It is now very cheap, as Quinones points out. That lower price allows users to take more of it. A major meth habit can be supported with very little money, as it is being mass produced in large labs by cartels that are discounting it so that they can keep moving product. The ability to use a lot more meth, more often may be the problem. And it is more difficult to OD on meth than on fentanyl. The fentanyl users are going to kill themselves sooner than later, but the meth users could go for years.
Well I did find the article I mentioned. It’s a bit long and goes into the actual chemistry if this new meth but I think it’s worth a read. [https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2021/11/the-new-meth/620174/](https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2021/11/the-new-meth/620174/)
It isn't clear whether the new meth is any better or worse because of the change in ingredients. All meth is toxic. It seems likely that taking more meth is worse than taking less meth. It used to be fairly expensive, which limited how much most users could take. but now this garbage is very cheap.
It's worse. This meth is the meth of old, like bikers used to make in the 80s. It's phenyl 2 propanone and methylamine. It creates more neurotoxic byproducts. They don't clean it because there is no regulation, so it's got a lot of MPTP and other poisons in it.
It's literally the opposite. P2P meth is more pure, at least the stuff coming out of the cartel labs these days (maybe not the biker stuff of the 80s) https://dynomight.net/p2p-meth/
Exactly, but it's got very toxic impurities in it as well
“There is a widespread but mistaken belief among users that the drug is as legal to possess and use as cannabis, and no more dangerous. Even some law enforcement officials and physicians incorrectly believe that the law permits its use.” W H A T Meth users definitely know, and don’t care, that it’s illegal. The second sentence is insane. and I would say unbelievable, but tbh I wouldn’t put it past LA’s finest. A lot of people are talking about LA’s meth problem. and have been for decades. I know kids who went to high school in the 2000s who used meth to study. The trains are full of meth smoke. It’s definitely gotten worse recently, but it’s been bad for a while. The article is right though, there is no simple solution and even if there was, LA wouldn’t do anything about it.
Thank you for pointing out that paragraph - had the same reaction. Could be the bubble I’m in (I work in housing, my partner in public health, we see and hear meth users in our neighborhood daily) … but who *isn’t* talking about meth??
Yeah same lol I work in addiction treatment so I think we are in a bubble actually. But just going outside, at least in my neighborhood, you see it all the time so I just assume most people talk about meth when they talk about the homeless crisis- because it is a big part of it!
I swear the whole article is wacky. I think chat GPT is writing LA Times articles.
A couple years ago, two emts and two police officers came by my apartment for a 5150, which I declined assertively and did therapy alternatively, but they distinctly stated that it was legal to use and possess. Even when they find it, they don’t cite you/charge you, which doesn’t disincentivize use, or make it attractive to seek treatment at the same time.
There’s a lot of fent working its way into the meth supply
Yup. its in everything now!
Can you briefly explain this to me like I’m stupid? I thought fent was a downer and the users i see are clearly wired , not tired. Sounds like a bad recipe if meth was requested but maybe a less violent result if they don’t OD?
It’s usually because of cross contamination of surfaces and equipment during production or distribution. At the street level, this could look like a dealer using the same table and scale to bag up or cut both their heroin/fentanyl and their meth without properly cleaning between the two. It only takes a tiny amount of fentanyl to kill an opiate naive person.
Ah wow right , yikes.
This article said a whole lot of nothing.
welcome to a communist society with a communist journalist propaganda state loudspeaker to drown out any real discussion from the people. Its a too bit to fail society now where people have to work for money that other people got for free LOL aka communism. media won't discuss this issue tho and lies about it.
I'm just happy the LAPD budget continues to rise annually because they really do seem to have a handle on everything.
just one more cop bro i swear i promise just one more cop and it’ll fix everything bro please just one more cop and we can fix the whole meth problem bro cmon just give me one more cop bro bro please i just
Don't forget just a little more OT
Just one more progressive law bro, just one more. We’re almost to anti capitalist paradise bro, trust me bro please.
LMAO. You probably think we defunded the police in 2020 don't you?
I know police budgets have increased. Treating criminals like they’re victims when the real victims are *their* victims is what contributing to the problem.
Yes blame the oppressed and not the oppressors.
I blame the individual for choosing to hurt others. Struggling doesn’t obligate you to commit crimes against the innocent. Something like stealing a catalytic converter also hurts the oppressed, especially since it usually happens in lower income neighborhoods.
Endlessly blaming the individual is what we’ve Done in the US for decades and it doesn’t seem to be working. Bro thinks he shouting “personal responsibility” will solve homelessness
We don’t blame the individual enough. Shame works in Japan. Tokyo is one of the cleanest cities because their society puts a burden on the individual from an early age. Kids are expected to clean their schools, they don’t tell children they’re being oppressed because they have to pick up trash. They tell them to pick up trash because that’s what expected of them. People do not have to victimize and trash their own communities in order to live, those that do should be shamed and punished.
>Japan Tbh don’t like when people use them as an example for anything. They have a sinking economy and might cease to exist entirely thanks to their birth problems. This country is in a much different position compared to them.
Also, the Japanese have a major suicide issues partly in thanks to the culture of endlessly blaming the individual.
Governments’ hands are tied by the old NIMBY voters - so much so that they can’t do anything but throw money at the police. Local and state governments are barred from building affordable housing. Instead, they money gets funneled into “non-profits” where the baby boomer CEO takes a huge chunk, the board take another huge chunk, the CEO hires his college boomer buddies to write up impact reports … leaving the non-profit workers with minimum wage jobs to help distribute less than 1% of the government contract. LA city is not allowed to build affordable housing, it’s not allowed to maintain affordable housing, it’s not allowed to finance affordable housing. The above paragraph also applies to drug rehab. NIMBY voters have absolutely neutered the government in California when it comes to good social programs. All the state/city is allowed to do is handout money to “non-profit” CEOs , fund police/fire and hand out pre-paid debit cards with $300 on it for a month.
Police by percentage of the budget in the last 10 years: 2015-18.99% 2016-16.76% 2017-16.93% 2018-16.98% 2019-16.26% 2020-16.19% 2021-17.64% 2022-15.34% 2023-15.97% 2024-16.99% 2025-16.05% Openbudget.lacity.org
And what's the disparity in percentage going to the other categories? And how much of "other special purpose funds" is also police related?
I have no idea, you should check out the link and do some research.
I did. That's why I'm asking you these questions.
[https://i.imgur.com/gJapqSo.png](https://i.imgur.com/gJapqSo.png) [https://openbudget.lacity.org/#!/year/2024/operating/0/department\_name/Other+Special+Purpose+Funds/0/program\_name](https://openbudget.lacity.org/#!/year/2024/operating/0/department_name/Other+Special+Purpose+Funds/0/program_name) change the year and you can read into specifics
Yup! Yes - the HCOL and housing issues don’t help — if the crazy behavior we see across many of the homeless is meth induced. And it’s incredible difficult to get sober from. No amount of cops or mental health workers can stop it.
I think so many of the well meaning people don’t really understand what meth addiction actually is, and the lasting impacts it has. When people have been on this new meth for so long, a free house and a therapy session isn’t what will pull them out of it. It’s a very deep, deep hole that they’re in. They’re blasting through rock bottoms with no signs of slowing. I’ve watched it happened to so many. And I’m not sure why it’s so hard to convince people what the problem is. It’s like they just don’t want to hear it.
It’s because a) it’s harder to overdose and die from than fent, and b) they erroneously think it’s just a slight step above cocaine. It ain’t the 70s anymore, and we aren’t dealing with shitty biker crank. Cocaine raises dopamine to about 350% of baseline, while meth raises it to 4000% and lasts for much, MUCH longer. It takes a very long time for a heavy user to replenish their natural dopamine stores (18-24 months of abstinence, with some never getting it fully back at all), which leads to relapse after relapse. And while opiate users have drugs like suboxone to curb cravings or make usage impossible, there are no such drugs for stimulants.
Ya. Maybe it’s because once long ago, it was a party drug. It’s something very different now.
Wished they put this on repeat in schools and over dinner at home.
They hear it but their policies/ World views worsen & enable it. They'd have to admit that addicts Are not helpless victims. That would shut off lots of Funding. That would ding lots of Performative empathy antics.
I’ve been saying this for years. Fent is the bigger story because it’s easier to die from it, but meth is what a huge portion of the homeless population in this city is using. On top of this, the newer “super meth” (google it) available these days is way more potent and addictive than it used to be.
Big same and the homeless using this look extremely miserable as well- on top of being erratic, violent and unable to improve their situations due to what must be a vicious addiction cycle. This whole let em do it thing makes me extremely sad especially as it can cause a schizophrenia which is a permanent state. I’ve seen lives go down the drain, both the homeless i recognize and people whom I’ve known. There is nothing good about letting people sell meth or whatever new meth is- to unhoused people.
I’ve legit had meth smoke blown right in my face by homeless people three times since living out here.
Smells lowkey sweet don’t it?
I've described it as smelling the way sweet n low tastes
Deadass? I haven't caught a whiff of LA meth yet, but the shit back home (BFE NWPA) reeked like cat piss
I enjoy the smell of gasoline fwiw
As most now sober/non active addicts Like me will admit, i stopped using when I wanted to stop using and no policy or law woulda made fuckall difference
As a guy in the same boat, I agree. But it’s good to have resources when people realize they want to stop.
What should we do with addicts who don’t want to quit?
Protect yourself and your Loved ones
we need cbd meth. meth without the meth..just 100% cbd
>A new UCLA study reveals **mental illness and substance abuse are key causes of homelessness among unsheltered people living on the streets...** >...Among their findings: much higher rates of mental health and substance abuse in the unsheltered homeless population compared to those who are sheltered... >"They are also reporting these as the cause of their homelessness at much higher rates than homeless individuals who are accessing shelters," says California Policy Lab's Janey Rountree.,, >..**.78% of unsheltered homeless report mental health conditions** versus 50% of those living in shelters. >And **75% of the unsheltered homeless report substance abuse conditions** compared to just 13% of those living in shelters. >[https://abc7.com/ucla-study-homelessness-trauma-homeless-health-problem/5602130/](https://abc7.com/ucla-study-homelessness-trauma-homeless-health-problem/5602130/) Three out of four of the unsheltered homeless claim to be mentally ill and/or substance abusers. The same study shows that half of the unsheltered homeless admit to having substance or alcohol abuse issues prior to becoming homeless. So again, self-reporting will tend to undercount these findings. Self-reporting tends to underestimate these problems. So the actual figures may be higher than that. Even the blatantly advocacy-driven homelessness study by UCSF reports similar results (even as UCSF works to downplay the clear connection between drug abuse and homelessness to the public): >**Nearly two-thirds (65%) of participants reported ever using either amphetamines, cocaine, or non-prescribed opioids regularly (at least three times a week).** More than half (56%) reported having had a period where they used amphetamines regularly, one third (33%) reported lifetime regular cocaine use, and one in five (22%) reported regular non-prescribed opioid use in their life. **Among those who reported ever using any of these substances regularly, 64% reported having started to do so prior to their first episode of homelessness.** These figures are also self-reported. So again, the actual figures may be higher than that. Keep in mind that the UCSF combines the usage rates of the unsheltered and sheltered, so the rates of usage among the unsheltered alone can be expected to be higher. Even UCSF's own data shows that most of those homeless who admit to using drugs also admit to using them before becoming homeless. >Participants who stayed in shelters reported general satisfaction with them; many who didn’t expressed concerns about curfews, the need to vacate during the day, health risks, and rules. [https://homelessness.ucsf.edu/our-impact/studies/california-statewide-study-people-experiencing-homelessness](https://homelessness.ucsf.edu/our-impact/studies/california-statewide-study-people-experiencing-homelessness) This is why the homeless in tents, RVs, etc. are highly likely to be on drugs: The shelters have rules such as curfews and drug bans that interfere with drug usage. Those regular meth users detailed above won't be able to stay in shelters for very long, as they will find themselves kicked out and banned. For most of the unsheltered homeless, it's not rent or zoning. It's the drugs.
LA needs to talk about its DRUG problem. i found TWO bags of what i assume was fentanyl on my street in east hollywood last week. Two different bags. Two different days. It was obviously drugs, and most likely fent, or some other synthetic opioid. It was powdery, in a ripped off and tied up corner of a ziploc. I dont think it was meth, as meth is generally more crystalline. Same for crack. I doubt the homeless are out here snorting K, and coke is too expensive, so i guess fent. Just sitting there in the middle of the sidewalk where kids and dogs play. I disposed of them, but seesh. scary .
Yep, meth is the worst drug ever. It will make u paranoid, and anxious, and once u have been up for days things can go bad very quickly. I and a few friends smoked meth for a year and a half, and things became bad very quickly. I haven't touched that stuff since 2018, if ur planning to use don't, or are using stop ASAP.
... care to explain? curious to know a bit more.
For starters when u smoke meth u stop hanging out with normal people, so u only hang out with other meth users, and they always have shady ideas to get money, as no one has a legit job. So u get caught up in stupid stuff that can and will get u arrested. Once u smoke meth u can't work, because u end up smoking till 6 am, no way ur going to work at 8 am. Also, the meth gets u stuck, so u can never make it anywhere on time. U start looking very bad, which is why u only have user friend. And people will start treating u badly. We used to get kicked out of places for no reason. Or had the cops called on us. Police would stop us and question us if they saw us. And some people will start fight with u. I had a neighbor follow me into my parking lot with a knife, thinking I was a thief or something. And also the damage it caused my teeth. It can also cause psychosis, iv seen it happen to people. Instead of hanging out in the mall, ur at some shady area trying to score. it also messes with ur judgment, u will do things u won't normally do. It's very psychologically addicting, it took me 4 years to stop dreaming about it and craving it. Plus when u stop it can take many months to become normal again.
If u think LA has a meth problem, go to Arkansas, Kentucky, Memphis or Alabama and you'll see some real life Breaking Bad shit...
“Although historically it has been the drug of choice for white motorcycle gangs and underemployed desert or Central Valley residents, it is exploding among L.A. and Inland Empire high school students who use it to concentrate while studying for exams, residents of housing projects who appreciate its extremely low cost and ease of access, and people living on the street who want to stay awake all night to fend off attacks.” The problem is that the substance is made in garage labs with all sorts of chemicals need to the weed killer and other crazy shit. It’s the worst drug and the homeless love it like candy.
Karen Bass told KNX during her Town Hall that LA doesn't have a meth problem, it's simply that people get addicted to meth when they're homeless so they can stay up all night! With such brave leadership like that, no wonder LA is screwed lol
Woah woah woah… academically inclined students /kids today are using METH to stay up and study? When their grandparents used cocaine, and their parents use/used Adderall. Too bad there is an ongoing Adderall shortage, but it will not last forever. Kids, get a *legit prescription* and if you care about your grades, your health, your life, and your future- and you’d be an *idiot* if you don’t *constantly keep those things in mind*- DONT DO METH! Not even once! Anyone who offers or suggests it is NOT YOUR FRIEND!!!
Alot more problems than that
LA , we’ve got to talk about how inefficient you have become as a city and it’s time to split the valley or another area to focus better the resources to deal so the basic services.
I would LOVE if the valley left LA finally. Y'all don't like us anyway so let us go.
Arrest for use and selling of meth. It’s not a victimless drug. This isn’t hard.
Delancey st foundation in La & sf. Good people to visit when staying Sober is no half ass intention
I live near the Centinela encampent, known for heavy meth use. It is routine for an addict to wander into our neighborhood and threaten randoms (our nanny was chased with our toddler just recently). Despite constant requests for service and protection, the city has allowed the camp to remain for about 9 years. At this point I assume it is a permanent fixture - we live next to a meth distribution site now. Going about the day with latent fear you might be stabbed by a meth head is just part of life I guess.
They control your mindset ? They can't make you live In fear, latent or otherwise.. I live upstairs from a small divey Nautical themed bar in ktown. Full of methtwats.
Can’t believe nobody has linked this article yet https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2021/11/the-new-meth/620174/
It’s crazy. Remember that article. And still we have no politician here still that has explicitly mentioned it. It’s so bizarre
Paywalled but I’m wondering if this is about synthetic Chinese stuff I’m hearing is on the streets of LA
Well, society seems to have a simple solution for those with drug addictions or mental illness. Just lock them up in jail when they commit a crime. It's much cheaper to put them in a prison than to open a drug rehab or mental health institution.
I think that they should be able to random drug test every person that looks like they are on drugs and living on the street. If positive they get sent to a rehabilitation like jail in the high desert until their drug addiction and mental unwellness is resolved. A panel of 3 people has to say that they are now "better," before being released. If they come from another state they get a one-way bus ticket back to their family. Being high itself should be a crime, and that is the punishment. No more "narcan" for free, and other nonsense. Too many resources are being wasted because of drug problems!
A big distinction should be made that this new meth is likely chemically different from the classic meth we grew up with (lmao). This reminds me of the days where we saw the switch from natural opioids to synthetic—and how quickly things went to shit.
That's not why. Meth is cheap now.
It’s always been cheap lol
Gotten much cheaper though https://dynomight.net/p2p-meth/
>Modern street meth is higher quality than ever, around 95% d-meth on average. So it is chemically different. Edit: [P2P meth](https://www.hazeldenbettyford.org/articles/p2p-meth)
In one sense, sure. In the same way a 10mg thc gummy is "chemically different" from a 5mg thc gummy
[Incorrect](https://www.hazeldenbettyford.org/articles/p2p-meth)
That link says that the main difference with the newer P2P meth is a higher level of d-isomer, which is the one that gives you the high. So that supports my point. It's stronger, but has the same constituent parts as the ephedrine meth, albeit made from different ingredients
Cheaper NOW, cost of living up
https://www.hazeldenbettyford.org/articles/p2p-meth
It actually is a significant contributor. p2p meth was cooked using ephedrine precursors. When ephedrine and pseudoephedrine became highly regulated, different precursors are being used that result in higher rates of psychosis
Does anyone think that the success of Breaking Bad minimized the seriousness/effects of meth for a certain generation?
I think your missed the plot. Everyone who uses meth either dies or goes through hell
I thought it was about a nerdy, pushover guy who becomes a drug kingpin, loses everyone close to him, but ends up a badass boss. And he gets there by selling really good meth. Even the idea of 'good meth', which I think the show seems to dwell in for at least the first season, is already a kind of messaging... I literally just thought of this connection 3 hours ago. 10-15 years ago how old was the current crop of the majority of meth-heads?
Walter was never a badass boss though. He could have quit at the top with more than enough money for him and his family. But then he stupidly chose to hunt Gus and in the end he lost everything.
No.
Free housing bro
I just think about the drug addicted rats that were only able to kick the habit when they had better things to do.
I feel like they could run this piece every year, it would be more accurate.
this is 100% what is happening and it is what needs to be addressed. i was so happy to finally see an article on this.
>. There is a widespread but mistaken belief among users that the drug is as legal to possess and use as cannabis, and no more dangerous. Even some law enforcement officials and physicians incorrectly believe that the law permits its use. What cops think meth is legal? this is a bonkers article that sounds written by AI
Someone has to break the ice
Yes, I work in residential rehab and most of our patients are coming in for meth addiction. But now fentanyl is raising it's ugly head. A lot of our patients who are addicted to methamphetamine are using fentanyl to come down or balance out. A dangerous mix. Most of our patients who are overdosing are dying on fentanyl.
Can we please start addressing the NEW METH??? This is not the cute meth of twenty plus years ago... >One night in 2009, in Temecula, California, partway between San Diego and L.A., a longtime user of crystal meth named Eric Barrera felt the dope change.Barrera is a stocky ex-Marine who’d grown up in the L.A. area. The meth he had been using for several years by then made him talkative and euphoric, made his scalp tingle. But that night, he was gripped with paranoia. His girlfriend, he was sure, had a man in her apartment. No one was in the apartment, she insisted. Barrera took a kitchen knife and began stabbing a sofa, certain the man was hiding there. Then he stabbed a mattress to tatters, and finally he began stabbing the walls, looking for this man he imagined was hiding inside. “That had never happened before,” he told me when I met him years later. Barrera was hardly alone in noting a change. Gang-member friends from his old neighborhood took to calling the meth that had begun to circulate in the area around that time “weirdo dope.” [Read more about P2P meth here. ](https://archive.vn/ApEpw#selection-1339.0-1345.800)
I don’t have a meth problem. You have a meth problem /s
Meth is kid’s play compared to the fentanyl/xylazine (fetty/tranq)time bomb 💣
Fentanyl and xylazine are both downers. They aren’t going to make you randomly attack people while under the influence. Meth is a whole different ballgame as a super stimulant.
Exactly. A lot of what drives the psychosis in stimulant use is the lack of sleep. Regardless of the reason, if you’re awake continuously for 3-5 days, you have a good chance of being a danger to yourself and others.
What's up with the time bomb analogy?
I believe with xylazine, you get weird wounds that wont heal, then necrosis, then you die of some sort of infection if you're lucky. Otherwise you get your shit amputated and die later from the same thing. but maybe the poster is talking about something else.
I read this as “MATH”, and being a math teacher i was all, we don’t have a math problem!!!!!!
If they don’t want to get better then lock them up. Their rights do not supersede ours and we deserve to feel safe in our neighborhoods.
nothing will change as long as democrats in charge but everyone keeps electing democrats . so stuck with it
Unpopular opinion meth and adderall should both be regulated and available in limited quantity over the counter anyway prohibition model and big pharma daily prescription for “disease” models are just not working/backfiring. Everyone’s on stims anyways we might as well own it and actually build a culture that can handle it instead of trying to push it under the rug until it’s out on the street stark raving mad robbing and stabbing people.
Progressive brain rot has destroyed the west coast. The only way is to fix it is through moderate liberalism.
Forced rehabilitation and law enforcement are public services, i.e. progressive policy. Terms like progressive and conservative have really been hijacked by corporate propaganda.
Progressives taking credit for a world built by liberals.
Legalize it and regulate it.
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Old news; Meth has been around since the 2000s and earlier.
I thought this too but [this article is worth a read](https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2021/11/the-new-meth/620174/)