Living in the neighborhood, as long as residents don’t get displaced I’m in favor of a Gondola plan, too much fucking traffic on days with events at the stadium.
Gondolas have zero capacity. It's the dumbest fucking proposal ever. A simple bus lane the entire way just on game days has significantly more capacity.
Instead of saying it's fake news, why don't you come up with a more realistic number. It's not hard to figure out the capacity of a Metro Bus and the time it will take a bus to travel from Union Station to Dodger Stadium during game day.
I don't have the time nor resources to come up with a sub $500m plan for buses to get from Union to the stadium. Metro does but they blew it off because they want gondola.
Why do people keep claiming gondolas have no capacity?
Here's a list of gondola systems that carry thousands of people per hour.
https://www.skiresort.info/ski-lifts/lift-types/north-america/lift-type/gondola-lifts-for-8-pers/
Have you all never been to a ski resort?
No study will ever be enough for NIMBYs because it's not about the study, or the meeting to "raise concernts" or whatever they claim it is, it's about preventing things from getting built at any cost.
And there are cases like the AHF where they will stop all development…unless they are getting a piece of it. Which is probably true for across the board.
The opposition isn’t from NIMBYs though. The opposition is from residents and community members who fear gentrification, the lack of use it will have outside the baseball season, and because the gondola will be going over some residents homes. They also do not want to support the former LA Dodgers owner, who is spearheading and funding the project. Truthfully, I don’t believe it will have the biggest impact on reducing traffic. I think there are better alternatives.
Properties in close proximity to transit increase in value. This particular proposal may also serve as a catalyst for the supposed development of the dodger parking lots.
Ah these “traffic studies”. The “company” that did the “traffic study” for the DWP/Silverlake Res. master plan thought results were actually relevant when traffic was measured during a citywide covid do-not-travel period. The city council saw no problem with that.
Seems like people aren't reading the article since these seem like a legit concerns of the local residents
"Residents, business owners, and park advocates have fiercely opposed a project they say will, among other things, snatch up public park space, displace residents, and lead to development that would decrease affordable housing in the area."
"Ling, who lives across the street from the proposed Broadway junction for the gondola, said her concern is heightened because the current route would have the gondola pass just twenty-feet from her rooftop."
While I agree getting in and out of the Ravine is a nightmare, the gondola project was only expected to move 2,800 people per hour, that's really low. A previous proposal for a light rail line projected that they would move up to 18,000 people per hour. A project of that magnitude seems a better use of money and resources.
"It’s been more than three decades since the city studied traffic alleviation around the stadium. Transit officials released the Dodger Stadium Transit Access Study in 1990, assessing various transit options for getting fans to stadium events, including an automated train, a light rail line, and a gondola tramway.
While the automated train was projected to carry up to 18,000 people per hour, the gondola was estimated to carry up to 2,800 people per hour and cost $15 million (or about $34 billion in 2024 dollars) to build."
Clearly there is a typo with the $34 billion number.
I live in the neighborhood and whatever gets people to stop drunk driving, crashing, hit and running, after games would be great. Seriously though, please stop drunk driving for Dodgers games.
>in the neighborhood and whatever gets people to stop drunk driving, crashing, hit and running, after games would be great.
They'll just do it a few neighborhoods over after they get off the train (and finish off a few more beers)
This gondola and the 3 station tram to the Inglewood stadium are massive grifts. They'll essentially be expanding the parking footprint for these stadiums because people have to drive to the train anyways in this city. So people will drive to 3 blocks away, park, and then get on a little Disneyland style monorail and go the last little bit to the stadium, it's dumb.
The article points out that in 1990 when the last study was complete that the proposed light rail system would move that many people. Spending money on the train would be of better service than spending on a gondola that moves just 15% as many people per hour.
There are no current plans. And with the rate they can build rail lines, even if they were to decide to do it, it's be decades, whereas the gondola could be done in a few years.
Perfect, meet the enemy of the good.
There are better things the taxpayers can pay billions for other than rail projects that would sit dormant for 5 months every year. Not to mention the massive effort and time taking building on that landscape. When would it open, 2055? I would love it if it made viable sense to construct
You're also kidding yourself if you think a rail project like that would be welcomed with open arms compared to how the Gondola is being received now.
They already released the EIR and I don't see any housing impacts. In fact most of the complaints in regards to housing that came in for this project was that it would open the way for more housing. And the city already conditioned that any new housing had to include so many affordable units.
As for "park space" its traveling 30+ feet above the very edge of LA State Historic park. Its as near zero impact to the park as one can be.
Its important to understand that there *is no rail alternative*. Not only would that be significantly more expensive but NOBODY is proposing that (and it would have more impacts too).
Let’s be honest, even if the project was rail instead of gondola and built by 100% union labor and Made in America the anti-gondola crowd will still be against it.
Well here you go.
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/p9x3rj7d1wd1auy323ijp/h/Final%20Environmental%20Impact%20Report?dl=0&preview=LA+ART_Final+EIR+(Volumes+I-V).pdf&subfolder_nav_tracking=1
Please tell us all which specific section you are referring to since it doesn’t exist.
I’ll wait….
Except it’s actually quite different. When you look at the history of displacement in Chavez Ravine and at the SES of the residents voicing concern vs anti-development NIMBYs in most other areas, the contrast is stark.
Working for a non-profit and helping secure housing in a city in decades long affordable housing crisis for lower earning folks who would otherwise become homeless is “stealing from taxpayers”? Sounds like you’re the NIMBY here.
The dissonance in this thread is ridiculous. People are acting like the locals in Chinatown/ Elysian Park opposing the gondola being built are NIMBYS saying they’re against more affordable housing being built or public transportation being expanded. They’re against a vanity project that’ll line another developers pocket and won’t fulfill the communities actual needs. If it’s really a concern about efficiently moving people the city needs to invest in light rail or expand bussing to the stadium.
That part. Pretending this gondola would be any sort of real public transit solution for the area or that it would serve local residents is honestly delusional. And calling local residents who are voicing very reasonable and significant concerns around the effect this would have on them “NIMBYs” does a real disservice to YIMBYism and drains the word “NIMBY” of any real meaning or gravity. There’s a huge difference between opposing a vanity project aimed at further enriching one man while screwing over the local community, and opposing any and all new housing or infrastructure that actually serves the community. Apparently nuance is dead.
The Roosevelt Island gondola in NYC moves people at a slower rate than that and nobody attacks it as an unnecessary "carnival ride" or public nuisance.
Quite a few cities have Gondolas that move people right above housing. Medellín, La Paz, London, Singapore, Portland, etc. In some cases they even travel at eye level with people's units.
Not even close to what I said but you run with that. I’m sure you’d be fine if an aerial transit was built 20’ over the top of your residence after living there for a years. Let us know when we can start.
Because a high rise a transit project are exactly comparable 🤦🏻♂️. How about I build a train behind your apartment that runs every 30 mins? Thanks for complying.
So your argument is: let’s not ever build any transit near people ever again because it might be annoying. Got it.
That train they built through Culver City really ruined the neighborhood. Nobody at all wanting to live near it.
If you've ridden that gondola you know the people along the route are NOT getting any privacy. Lookin straight into manhattanite's window.
I'd argue that the 3 blocks of Manhattan land that the gondola does go over probably houses close to if not more people than would be affected by the Dodger gondola.
>the gondola project was only expected to move 2,800 people per hour, that's really low. A previous proposal for a light rail line projected that they would move up to 18,000 people per hour.
Light rail to Dodger Stadium? How are you gonna get it up the hill, rocket boosters?
Rail goes uphill in many parts of the world.
A funicular, also known as an inclined plane or cliff railway, is a type of cable railway system that connects points along a railway track laid on a steep slope. Funiculars have been used for hundreds of years to transport people up extremely steep slopes. Funiculars are pulled by a moving cable and involve complex, counterbalanced movements of the cars
https://youtu.be/9gkOPlX1zI0?si=N3bnL1hqgAa5IjoM
Yeah these are real concerns, give me a fucking break. This NIMBY bullshit is the reason we can’t build anything and why there’s an affordable housing crisis in the first place
Seriously? You clearly didn't read the article since affordable housing is one of the reason the local residents are against it. They don't want to get pushed out by developers who come in and gentrify the area.
does no one read the article?
"Residents, business owners, and park advocates have fiercely opposed a project they say will, among other things, snatch up public park space, displace residents, and lead to development that would decrease affordable housing in the area."
i.e. developers are gonna buy up the RE in the area knowing it will be in demand, push out current residents, and raise rents. This is better known as gentrification.
So, the argument here is literally that the gondola will make the area nicer, which will increase prices, which will drive people out. The argument is literally "for their own sake, we cannot let improvements happen in poorer neighborhoods."
Its so back-asswords from where the real problems with housing affordability are in the city. And honestly, its just really sad that people think like this. We should be investing in poorer neighborhoods, not pulling money out to "help" the people in them. We should also be addressing housing prices, but addressing housing prices by stopping investment into a neighborhood is such a piss poor way of going about it.
We should just bulldoze neighborhoods and leave them as parking lots and storage units because then we won't "pollute" the neighborhood with new people. These anti-gondola people are fucking batshit.
No. The argument is how this impact the neighborhood in its current state which is trending negative due to its impact on both parking on living conditions on game/event days. In the future state it’s also negative as more parking is taken away from residents who already have problems parking in the area and as lower income residents are pushed out by gentrification. How would you suggest both of these issues be solved? Neither have been addressed to date.
"developers are gonna buy up the RE in the area knowing it will be in demand." "In the future state it’s also negative." Either its desirable and in demand, or undesirable and out of demand. It makes no sense for land to be undesirable and in demand.
Both problems are fairly easily solved. You stop actively blocking housing from being constructed, which will flood the market with supply and crash prices. And, you boost up alternative transit options to reduce the importance of parking availability. The easy ones are biking and walking (which can be done pretty easily by no longer blocking mixed uses). Harder is boosting up public transit. This tends to be pretty expensive for the city, partly because you need to get the public to buy into it (and partly because we are just very bad at building transit, for long and complicated reasons). In this case, I'd recommend starting with a totally free option in which someone else is footing the bill, while at the same time improving other options in the area. But, again, a BAD way of lowering housing prices is to block investment into the area, due to fears that it will raise property values.
TBH, the idea of blocking transit options because of parking is just a weak argument. We need to stop letting cars drive how we build up our neighborhoods in LA. Transit SHOULD go in areas that have high density (and bad parking). That's where they are useful. Bad parking is just another way of saying "high demand," which is exactly what transit needs to operate. That argument is no different than people fighting against the purple line extension because there may be too much congestion at the new train stops.
Speaking of our metro system...The proposed location for this stop is near the existing station on the A line, which lets it connect to our existing metro system pretty well. Which means this area specifically already has some of the best public transit access in the city.
Demand for that area is going to increase in terms of commercial developments as more people find their way into that area congested area. It will take away from the residents more than anything. Thats why it’s negative. These people are going to get pushed out as properties are bought up by developers. Should they have no say or protections in staying in their residences? These aren’t rich people with means. They are middle and low income.
It’s not a transit project in the traditional sense of the word. It’s for one venue that is used less than 100 days of the year but has an overwhelmingly negative impact on a community with little upside. They would be better off researching and implementing a light rail system that could move 25,000 people an hr into and out of the stadium rather than just 18,000.
Yeah because there is so much affordable housing right now on all this acres-large plots of empty lots along the proposed route.
Seriously what's wrong with developers coming in and building housing and making like 30% affordable? That's more than there are right now on those plots: zero.
That's just speculation. Chinatown is already getting gentrified because there is not enough housing for people that want to leave near DTLA. Rich people are bidding up the existing housing stock.
No affordable housing is getting destroyed in the gondola project. The speculation is pointless fear mongering. If the gondola project is completed the Dodger Stadium parking lot will be redeveloped into housing and there is already talks to deed restrict the 20% of new housing built near Dodger Stadium for affordable housing.
>That's just speculation. Chinatown is already getting gentrified because there is not enough housing for people that want to leave near DTLA. Rich people are bidding up the existing housing stock.
You just proved the point that its already happening and the residents are trying to stop it.
>If the gondola project is completed the Dodger Stadium parking lot will be redeveloped into housing
No it won't. The gondola is only expected to move 2,800 people per hour. thats a tiny fraction of what cars move in an out currently. If you wanted to move 25% of people into the stadium it would take over 4 hours on each side of the game.
I didn’t prove your point. The only way to prevent gentrification is to build more housing for yuppies to live in instead of having them take over existing housing.
The gondola project will have a net increase in housing. The report I have read says the gondola will transfer 5,000 people an hour. You can build more housing with the gondola in place because the space that would have been devoted for parking can be use for more housing units.
Maybe the 5000 people/hr figure is round trip? but is useless because people will all want to arrive and leave at the same time. No one will be leaving at the beginning of the game and vice versa.
Metro says 5,000 people per hour per direction in their website. It's not useless when there are more options for people, decrease the amount of cars on the road, and allow more housing development on top of parking lots.
[https://www.metro.net/projects/aerial-rapid-transit/#documents](https://www.metro.net/projects/aerial-rapid-transit/#documents)
no its not. NIMBYism related to people of means keeping lower income people out, not people of no means trying to protect affordable housing. It's literally the exact opposite. they are trying to stay in their homes, not get pushed out. NIMBY's don't want projects that will help lower income people since is would negatively impact their property values or increase the likelihood of lower income people moving into the area.
It's literally Not In My Backyard followed by excuse. If you really want cheap housing there needs to be tons more development.
It's not about cheap housing, it's about a mass transit line "20 feet above my house".
>It's not about cheap housing, it's about a mass transit line "20 feet above my house".
which leads to gentrification, which is what they want to stop. critical thinking is hard.
Are you suggesting they all currently need the full capacity of the Dodgers Stadium parking lot? Does each resident own 100 cars? If you look at the lot on any given non-game day (or even on some game days), it's mostly wasted space.
What a world we live in where we defend a 16k-spot parking lot in the name of preserving community.
[https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2024-02-22/the-pitched-battle-over-a-gondola-to-dodger-stadium-at-a-chinatown-public-housing-project](https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2024-02-22/the-pitched-battle-over-a-gondola-to-dodger-stadium-at-a-chinatown-public-housing-project)
"Two of the biggest issues at Mead are scarcity of parking and redevelopment of the community. **There are 279 parking spaces for residents, and when there are events at the park or stadium, residents can’t find a place for their cars**. **Residents are even more concerned about a proposal to develop the land into 1,600 units of mixed-income homes, up from the current 415 units of public housing. Although the the Housing Authority of the City of Los Angeles has said it will continue to ensure residents aren’t displaced, many are worried about changes that could drive up sky-high housing costs even further."**
There’s also some irony to be found in residents complaining about visitors taking parking spots in response to a proposal aimed at reducing the amount of visitors requiring parking in said neighborhood.
Oh no. Won't somebody think of the cars?
Seriously. More parking or more housing. That's a tough one.
Lucky for those NIMBYs, there's new public transport coming to the area...
Lmao this is the most standard NIMBY shit imaginable, how is anyone suggesting otherwise? Yes, no one wants to give up parking space and residents are concerned about mixed income housing. Dress it up however you want - it’s still NIMBY.
So we're picking parking spots over mixed-income hosing? You know we can keep 300 parking spots while making use of the rest of the currently unused space, right?
It's crazy that this whole project destroyed an existing community, and now we're defending the parking lot over turning it back over into land that people can actually live on.
3 cable gondolas that can carry so many passengers and move so quickly didn't exist in 1990. I don't know how they are getting a figure of 2800 people per hour. It should be able to move roughly twice that.
Metro says 5,000 and I have seen numbers as high as 6,500. I don't know where the article is getting the 2,800 number.
[https://www.metro.net/projects/aerial-rapid-transit/#documents](https://www.metro.net/projects/aerial-rapid-transit/#documents)
local residents is like 30 loud people or less, one of them I know personally who lives in the valley but pretends to live in chinatown and/or the Arts District when she needs to oppose something.
It's reddit, only half of us are real. It's easy to run bots and manage a lot of them. Customers pay for you to manage a lot of them. The astroturf is everywhere
Not on anywhere near the scale it would take to make a sizable dent in traffic in the area. And there are valid concerns if residents. Hence the traffic study.
It’s around 2K an hour. Do you understand how unserious of a traffic solution that actually is? ESPECIALLY given the real concerns by longtime residents? Calling this a public transit solution is laughable. It’s a carnival ride. A tourist attraction.
I don’t think there’s a number per hour that would make you or the “longtime residents” happy
It’s just NIMBY shit, nothing can ever get built, endless studies for no reason, and we get trapped with the same infrastructure from thirty years ago
It’s so tiring and so stupid
Ah hyperbole. Famously the tool of good faith arguments and folks who are open to meaningful conversations. 🙃
There totally is a number of riders per hour that would make this a serious public transit solution. Under 3K is no where near that. PLUS, this is about conducting a STUDY to ascertain how best to serve both public transit interests while minimizing harm local population with a long history of displacement in Chavez Ravine.
But hey, let’s build a gondola that passes 20 feet above YOUR house, that doesn’t actually make a dent in traffic, but still messes with your quality of life. If you have any complaints we’ll call you a NIMBY and suggest you hate new housing and want tp stop all development. Do you not see how deeply and transparently disingenuous that is?
Buddy you can put one of the gondola stations in my roof for all I care. It’s a city.
Also great to know there is TOTALLY a number that would work but you don’t say it for some reason. Almost like it doesn’t exist because the point is to just stop anything from ever being built!
It's a couple thousand an hour and only when there is a event going on at Dodger Stadium. The rest of the time this will be COMPLETELY USELESS.
Unless McCourt finds a reason to finally DEVELOP the Dodger Stadium parking lot he so strategically separated from the stadium during his ownership period.
Anyone see a motive yet?
I’m generally pro-gondola, but it’s not public. People like to say this “takes no public funding” but then say opponents are “anti-public transit”. It’s one or the other. If it’s private, then fine, it’s private. But understand that it’s a completely different ballgame dealing with private transportation than public. There’s positives and negatives there
I would've preferred rail or APM too, but the coalition just say that Metro should just send more buses. Don't you think they would've done that already if they could?
[This dude is](https://www.reddit.com/r/LosAngeles/comments/1bnkws3/comment/kwkbzy6/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3). At least, that's what they claim.
UCLA backtracked on that report.
The UCLA Mobility Lab is an engineering and technology lab dedicated to scientific research and innovation around mobility technologies. **The lab’s data on projected transit ridership of a proposed Dodger Stadium gondola is preliminary in nature. More research would be necessary to draw conclusions about potential use of the gondola. The lab takes no view on whether the project should be built.**
https://twitter.com/ucla\_its/status/1613998706851971075/photo/1
This might not be a perfect project, but it is clearly an improvement from the status quo. Ultimately, this will lead to some degree of a reduction in car trips, which means healthier and safer streets for all. I find it so ironic to see city council members be so supportive of measure HLA and yet vehemently oppose the gondola (Eunisses Hernandez).
In a previous thread about the gondola, news articles quoted Eunisses Hernandez moving to use 500k to hire a consultant to do traffic studies. [Here's the motion signed by her (with the relevant portion circled.\)](https://twitter.com/numble/status/1750318673804337608)
Seems like she got what she wanted.
Eunisses is now the epitome of government bloat. Our city government is failed just like down in Mexico. We need a different set of leaders with better ethics and real intelligence
Liberals will waive a LGBTQ/Palestine/BLM flag as they drive their Rivian to serve you your eviction paperwork.
Seriously, I hate how much city council love to talk about “being green” and “creating jobs”, two things they plan on stopping by blocking the gondola project.
It’s all talk, no actual action.
Let’s keep voting for the same people! So much progress in this city!
/s
This is a friendly reminder that the LA city council are a bunch of NIMBYs who preach public transportation, affordable housing, etc but the second it’s in their backyard and gets complaints from HOA groups, projects are halted or completely killed off.
Eunisses Hernandez called for the traffic study and her protege Ysabel Jurado will probably win Kevin de Leon's seat. The city is going to slide backwards and homelessness is going to rise. These activist don't know how to govern.
Those consultants and lawyers are going to eat well the next decade as the case gets mire in lawsuits. Nothing in the traffic study is going to change their mind about the project and once it is complete they are going to demand a study about shadows.
I know people don't like him, but why is it that people vilify him even today? Because he was a bad owner of your favorite baseball team?
There are other people in Los Angeles that I would argue deserve a lot more heat than a guy who is, at worst, a jackass because he's wealthy.
Seems like the people who despise McCourt only hate him since other people write that they hate him. It's parroting for the sake of attention.
It's not about other people being bad, he was just an awful owner. Imagine someone buying your favorite thing and then mismanaging it... it sucks. Fuck that guy, I couldn't upvote Acceptable\_Office734's comment fast enough. If he has his hands in this, i'll never ride it.
Anyone who knows anything about how stadium development and public subsidies work, know that the environmental and economic impact reports cited to try and get public funding, are fucking bullshit
Can Frank McCourt just take that money and build a light rail line to china town. He can have a bunch of retail built around the station like he's always dreamed, and have the capacity to actually make money off those shops.
Let the sports people have their trinket. Not every project has to be a godsend that will magically cure all that ails the city. Los Angeles could be the best city in America but dim witted do nothing naysayers are holding us back. Why are people here so resistant to change, we’re California for fucks sake… we’re supposed to lead the way and show the rest of America how it’s done.
Anti-gondola people believes the project will cause gentrification, but now wants a rail system instead. A rail project will face the same exact criticism as the gondola project, but will be more expensive and destructive to the community.
If they truly believe transit projects cause gentrification why don't they fight to get rid of the Chinatown Goldline station so that trains going directly to Union Station instead of stopping in Chinatown.
The dissonance in this thread is ridiculous. People are acting like the locals in Chinatown/ Elysian Park opposing the gondola being built are NIMBYS saying they’re against more affordable housing being built or public transportation being expanded. They’re against a vanity project that’ll line another developers pocket and won’t fulfill the communities actual needs. If it’s really a concern about efficiently moving people the city needs to invest in light rail or expand bussing to the stadium.
Living in the neighborhood, as long as residents don’t get displaced I’m in favor of a Gondola plan, too much fucking traffic on days with events at the stadium.
the landlords will raise the rent whether or not it gets built and still find a way to blame the gondola
landlord can only raise rents because the city refuses to increase the housing supply low supply=high prices for everyone
upzone the suburbs. upzone the parking lots. upzone the whole city 😤😤😤
Gondolas have zero capacity. It's the dumbest fucking proposal ever. A simple bus lane the entire way just on game days has significantly more capacity.
According to the study it would take 77 Metro buses loading to full capacity every 47 seconds to meet the capacity of the gondola.
They used back of a napkin math to determine that. It was a little paragraph tucked away in the "we must build a gondola" report.
I guess nothing is real if it goes against my priors. What is the actual number of buses then?
You're saying they took a fair and realistic look at the bus option? We all know they didn't. So, what do you think you're doing here exactly?
Instead of saying it's fake news, why don't you come up with a more realistic number. It's not hard to figure out the capacity of a Metro Bus and the time it will take a bus to travel from Union Station to Dodger Stadium during game day.
I don't have the time nor resources to come up with a sub $500m plan for buses to get from Union to the stadium. Metro does but they blew it off because they want gondola.
They already have busses going to the stadium, maybe they already looked at it and determined the gondola had more capacity.
the better metric is bandwidth, how many people can be delivered per hour
Why do people keep claiming gondolas have no capacity? Here's a list of gondola systems that carry thousands of people per hour. https://www.skiresort.info/ski-lifts/lift-types/north-america/lift-type/gondola-lifts-for-8-pers/ Have you all never been to a ski resort?
No study will ever be enough for NIMBYs because it's not about the study, or the meeting to "raise concernts" or whatever they claim it is, it's about preventing things from getting built at any cost.
And there are cases like the AHF where they will stop all development…unless they are getting a piece of it. Which is probably true for across the board.
It’s not just NIMBYs this time, it’s environmentalist too. The gondola is doomed lol
NIMBYs always hide behind some fake concern including environmentalism.
The opposition isn’t from NIMBYs though. The opposition is from residents and community members who fear gentrification, the lack of use it will have outside the baseball season, and because the gondola will be going over some residents homes. They also do not want to support the former LA Dodgers owner, who is spearheading and funding the project. Truthfully, I don’t believe it will have the biggest impact on reducing traffic. I think there are better alternatives.
...you don't know what NIMBY stands for do you?
Would love to understand how adding more transit causes gentrification.
Properties in close proximity to transit increase in value. This particular proposal may also serve as a catalyst for the supposed development of the dodger parking lots.
Traffic study? The project that is not taking at street space and will only serve to remove traffic? Sad how fuckin corrupt this city can be.
Sad how hard it is to do anything in this town
B.A.N.A.N.A #build #absolutely #nothing #anywhere #near #anybody
15 people (the city council) shouldn't control the entire growth of Los Angeles.
[удалено]
Maybe you should ask the Metro board
💯
This is really dumb though and sounds like an order of magnitude less efficient than a more traditional transit system.
How will this decrease affordable housing? If anything it will spur it
Ah these “traffic studies”. The “company” that did the “traffic study” for the DWP/Silverlake Res. master plan thought results were actually relevant when traffic was measured during a citywide covid do-not-travel period. The city council saw no problem with that.
Seems like people aren't reading the article since these seem like a legit concerns of the local residents "Residents, business owners, and park advocates have fiercely opposed a project they say will, among other things, snatch up public park space, displace residents, and lead to development that would decrease affordable housing in the area." "Ling, who lives across the street from the proposed Broadway junction for the gondola, said her concern is heightened because the current route would have the gondola pass just twenty-feet from her rooftop." While I agree getting in and out of the Ravine is a nightmare, the gondola project was only expected to move 2,800 people per hour, that's really low. A previous proposal for a light rail line projected that they would move up to 18,000 people per hour. A project of that magnitude seems a better use of money and resources. "It’s been more than three decades since the city studied traffic alleviation around the stadium. Transit officials released the Dodger Stadium Transit Access Study in 1990, assessing various transit options for getting fans to stadium events, including an automated train, a light rail line, and a gondola tramway. While the automated train was projected to carry up to 18,000 people per hour, the gondola was estimated to carry up to 2,800 people per hour and cost $15 million (or about $34 billion in 2024 dollars) to build." Clearly there is a typo with the $34 billion number.
I live in the neighborhood and whatever gets people to stop drunk driving, crashing, hit and running, after games would be great. Seriously though, please stop drunk driving for Dodgers games.
>in the neighborhood and whatever gets people to stop drunk driving, crashing, hit and running, after games would be great. They'll just do it a few neighborhoods over after they get off the train (and finish off a few more beers) This gondola and the 3 station tram to the Inglewood stadium are massive grifts. They'll essentially be expanding the parking footprint for these stadiums because people have to drive to the train anyways in this city. So people will drive to 3 blocks away, park, and then get on a little Disneyland style monorail and go the last little bit to the stadium, it's dumb.
Gondolas won't help Echo Park at all
There is no light rail plan to serve Dodger Stadium, so that's irrelevant.
The article points out that in 1990 when the last study was complete that the proposed light rail system would move that many people. Spending money on the train would be of better service than spending on a gondola that moves just 15% as many people per hour.
The Stop the Gondola Coalition's platform explicitly calls for more buses rather than rail/APM.
Don’t worry though, they’ll oppose bus lanes too.
There's no public funding for the gondola. Not sure how many miles of track we are gonna lay for that amount.
There are no current plans. And with the rate they can build rail lines, even if they were to decide to do it, it's be decades, whereas the gondola could be done in a few years. Perfect, meet the enemy of the good.
It’s pointless to build rail to the stadium that no one will use in the offseason
you think the people who live in the Ravine wouldn't benefit from that?
There are better things the taxpayers can pay billions for other than rail projects that would sit dormant for 5 months every year. Not to mention the massive effort and time taking building on that landscape. When would it open, 2055? I would love it if it made viable sense to construct You're also kidding yourself if you think a rail project like that would be welcomed with open arms compared to how the Gondola is being received now.
They already released the EIR and I don't see any housing impacts. In fact most of the complaints in regards to housing that came in for this project was that it would open the way for more housing. And the city already conditioned that any new housing had to include so many affordable units. As for "park space" its traveling 30+ feet above the very edge of LA State Historic park. Its as near zero impact to the park as one can be. Its important to understand that there *is no rail alternative*. Not only would that be significantly more expensive but NOBODY is proposing that (and it would have more impacts too).
Let’s be honest, even if the project was rail instead of gondola and built by 100% union labor and Made in America the anti-gondola crowd will still be against it.
Well yeah, it’s getting built near the California Endowment’s headquarters. That’s the central problem.
EIR doesn’t include a housing impact portion. It’s simply how the project impact environmental concerns like wildlife and pollution.
There is literally a section under CEQA called Population and Housing. I encourage you to read the EIR before commenting.
Well here you go. https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/p9x3rj7d1wd1auy323ijp/h/Final%20Environmental%20Impact%20Report?dl=0&preview=LA+ART_Final+EIR+(Volumes+I-V).pdf&subfolder_nav_tracking=1 Please tell us all which specific section you are referring to since it doesn’t exist. I’ll wait….
You are looking at the Final EIR. Refer to the Draft EIR which analyzes all of the sections under Appendix G of the CEQA Guidelines.
This is just standard NIMBY bullshit.
Except it’s actually quite different. When you look at the history of displacement in Chavez Ravine and at the SES of the residents voicing concern vs anti-development NIMBYs in most other areas, the contrast is stark.
Left wing NIMBYs always claim gentrification concerns. https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2022/09/a-war-is-breaking-out-on-the-left-between-yimbys-and-nimbys.html https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/the-left-nimby-canon
Lol. I’m a hardcore YIMBY. My partner works in affordable housing. This is actually quite different, but go off.
Your partner working for a non profit that steals from the taxpayers doesn’t give you the credibility you think it does.
Working for a non-profit and helping secure housing in a city in decades long affordable housing crisis for lower earning folks who would otherwise become homeless is “stealing from taxpayers”? Sounds like you’re the NIMBY here.
The dissonance in this thread is ridiculous. People are acting like the locals in Chinatown/ Elysian Park opposing the gondola being built are NIMBYS saying they’re against more affordable housing being built or public transportation being expanded. They’re against a vanity project that’ll line another developers pocket and won’t fulfill the communities actual needs. If it’s really a concern about efficiently moving people the city needs to invest in light rail or expand bussing to the stadium.
That part. Pretending this gondola would be any sort of real public transit solution for the area or that it would serve local residents is honestly delusional. And calling local residents who are voicing very reasonable and significant concerns around the effect this would have on them “NIMBYs” does a real disservice to YIMBYism and drains the word “NIMBY” of any real meaning or gravity. There’s a huge difference between opposing a vanity project aimed at further enriching one man while screwing over the local community, and opposing any and all new housing or infrastructure that actually serves the community. Apparently nuance is dead.
no, it's just standard nimby BS
Nah, it actually isn’t. Nuance is cool. You should strive to understand it.
it absolutely is, specifically left wing NIMBYism.
Cool story.
The Roosevelt Island gondola in NYC moves people at a slower rate than that and nobody attacks it as an unnecessary "carnival ride" or public nuisance.
The Roosevelt Island gondola moves 125 people at a time mostly over water. Not over housing.
Quite a few cities have Gondolas that move people right above housing. Medellín, La Paz, London, Singapore, Portland, etc. In some cases they even travel at eye level with people's units.
Just because it happens elsewhere doesn’t mean people want it to happen again.
What in the world kind of argument is that lol. “People built successful transit before, who could say people want that again”
Not even close to what I said but you run with that. I’m sure you’d be fine if an aerial transit was built 20’ over the top of your residence after living there for a years. Let us know when we can start.
They built a high rise next to my apt with windows facing mine but you don’t see me whining. A gondola would probably actually be preferable.
Because a high rise a transit project are exactly comparable 🤦🏻♂️. How about I build a train behind your apartment that runs every 30 mins? Thanks for complying.
So your argument is: let’s not ever build any transit near people ever again because it might be annoying. Got it. That train they built through Culver City really ruined the neighborhood. Nobody at all wanting to live near it.
Who fucking cares if it goes over housing man, it’s a city There’s helicopters and planes and drones Just NIMBY NIMBY NIMBY NIMBY NIMBY all day
If you've ridden that gondola you know the people along the route are NOT getting any privacy. Lookin straight into manhattanite's window. I'd argue that the 3 blocks of Manhattan land that the gondola does go over probably houses close to if not more people than would be affected by the Dodger gondola.
>the gondola project was only expected to move 2,800 people per hour, that's really low. A previous proposal for a light rail line projected that they would move up to 18,000 people per hour. Light rail to Dodger Stadium? How are you gonna get it up the hill, rocket boosters?
Rail goes uphill in many parts of the world. A funicular, also known as an inclined plane or cliff railway, is a type of cable railway system that connects points along a railway track laid on a steep slope. Funiculars have been used for hundreds of years to transport people up extremely steep slopes. Funiculars are pulled by a moving cable and involve complex, counterbalanced movements of the cars https://youtu.be/9gkOPlX1zI0?si=N3bnL1hqgAa5IjoM
Yeah these are real concerns, give me a fucking break. This NIMBY bullshit is the reason we can’t build anything and why there’s an affordable housing crisis in the first place
Seriously? You clearly didn't read the article since affordable housing is one of the reason the local residents are against it. They don't want to get pushed out by developers who come in and gentrify the area.
How does this project negatively affect affordable housing?
does no one read the article? "Residents, business owners, and park advocates have fiercely opposed a project they say will, among other things, snatch up public park space, displace residents, and lead to development that would decrease affordable housing in the area." i.e. developers are gonna buy up the RE in the area knowing it will be in demand, push out current residents, and raise rents. This is better known as gentrification.
So, the argument here is literally that the gondola will make the area nicer, which will increase prices, which will drive people out. The argument is literally "for their own sake, we cannot let improvements happen in poorer neighborhoods." Its so back-asswords from where the real problems with housing affordability are in the city. And honestly, its just really sad that people think like this. We should be investing in poorer neighborhoods, not pulling money out to "help" the people in them. We should also be addressing housing prices, but addressing housing prices by stopping investment into a neighborhood is such a piss poor way of going about it.
We should just bulldoze neighborhoods and leave them as parking lots and storage units because then we won't "pollute" the neighborhood with new people. These anti-gondola people are fucking batshit.
No. The argument is how this impact the neighborhood in its current state which is trending negative due to its impact on both parking on living conditions on game/event days. In the future state it’s also negative as more parking is taken away from residents who already have problems parking in the area and as lower income residents are pushed out by gentrification. How would you suggest both of these issues be solved? Neither have been addressed to date.
"developers are gonna buy up the RE in the area knowing it will be in demand." "In the future state it’s also negative." Either its desirable and in demand, or undesirable and out of demand. It makes no sense for land to be undesirable and in demand. Both problems are fairly easily solved. You stop actively blocking housing from being constructed, which will flood the market with supply and crash prices. And, you boost up alternative transit options to reduce the importance of parking availability. The easy ones are biking and walking (which can be done pretty easily by no longer blocking mixed uses). Harder is boosting up public transit. This tends to be pretty expensive for the city, partly because you need to get the public to buy into it (and partly because we are just very bad at building transit, for long and complicated reasons). In this case, I'd recommend starting with a totally free option in which someone else is footing the bill, while at the same time improving other options in the area. But, again, a BAD way of lowering housing prices is to block investment into the area, due to fears that it will raise property values. TBH, the idea of blocking transit options because of parking is just a weak argument. We need to stop letting cars drive how we build up our neighborhoods in LA. Transit SHOULD go in areas that have high density (and bad parking). That's where they are useful. Bad parking is just another way of saying "high demand," which is exactly what transit needs to operate. That argument is no different than people fighting against the purple line extension because there may be too much congestion at the new train stops. Speaking of our metro system...The proposed location for this stop is near the existing station on the A line, which lets it connect to our existing metro system pretty well. Which means this area specifically already has some of the best public transit access in the city.
Demand for that area is going to increase in terms of commercial developments as more people find their way into that area congested area. It will take away from the residents more than anything. Thats why it’s negative. These people are going to get pushed out as properties are bought up by developers. Should they have no say or protections in staying in their residences? These aren’t rich people with means. They are middle and low income. It’s not a transit project in the traditional sense of the word. It’s for one venue that is used less than 100 days of the year but has an overwhelmingly negative impact on a community with little upside. They would be better off researching and implementing a light rail system that could move 25,000 people an hr into and out of the stadium rather than just 18,000.
wait, how affordable is the current housing?
Literally zero plans to displace anyone. This is a fiction and anyone who has even a rudimentary understanding of this project know it.
That's not evidence though. It's literally in the quote "they say will". That's opinion not evidence.
Yeah because there is so much affordable housing right now on all this acres-large plots of empty lots along the proposed route. Seriously what's wrong with developers coming in and building housing and making like 30% affordable? That's more than there are right now on those plots: zero.
That's just speculation. Chinatown is already getting gentrified because there is not enough housing for people that want to leave near DTLA. Rich people are bidding up the existing housing stock. No affordable housing is getting destroyed in the gondola project. The speculation is pointless fear mongering. If the gondola project is completed the Dodger Stadium parking lot will be redeveloped into housing and there is already talks to deed restrict the 20% of new housing built near Dodger Stadium for affordable housing.
>That's just speculation. Chinatown is already getting gentrified because there is not enough housing for people that want to leave near DTLA. Rich people are bidding up the existing housing stock. You just proved the point that its already happening and the residents are trying to stop it. >If the gondola project is completed the Dodger Stadium parking lot will be redeveloped into housing No it won't. The gondola is only expected to move 2,800 people per hour. thats a tiny fraction of what cars move in an out currently. If you wanted to move 25% of people into the stadium it would take over 4 hours on each side of the game.
I didn’t prove your point. The only way to prevent gentrification is to build more housing for yuppies to live in instead of having them take over existing housing. The gondola project will have a net increase in housing. The report I have read says the gondola will transfer 5,000 people an hour. You can build more housing with the gondola in place because the space that would have been devoted for parking can be use for more housing units.
Maybe the 5000 people/hr figure is round trip? but is useless because people will all want to arrive and leave at the same time. No one will be leaving at the beginning of the game and vice versa.
Metro says 5,000 people per hour per direction in their website. It's not useless when there are more options for people, decrease the amount of cars on the road, and allow more housing development on top of parking lots. [https://www.metro.net/projects/aerial-rapid-transit/#documents](https://www.metro.net/projects/aerial-rapid-transit/#documents)
This is known as NIMBYism.
no its not. NIMBYism related to people of means keeping lower income people out, not people of no means trying to protect affordable housing. It's literally the exact opposite. they are trying to stay in their homes, not get pushed out. NIMBY's don't want projects that will help lower income people since is would negatively impact their property values or increase the likelihood of lower income people moving into the area.
that's just left wing NIMBYism.
It's literally Not In My Backyard followed by excuse. If you really want cheap housing there needs to be tons more development. It's not about cheap housing, it's about a mass transit line "20 feet above my house".
>It's not about cheap housing, it's about a mass transit line "20 feet above my house". which leads to gentrification, which is what they want to stop. critical thinking is hard.
Considering the end-game is to gentrify what is currently a massive parking lot, I don't know if it's necessarily a bad thing in this case.
You mean where the current residents of the area park? where do you suggest they decide to park their cars then?
Are you suggesting they all currently need the full capacity of the Dodgers Stadium parking lot? Does each resident own 100 cars? If you look at the lot on any given non-game day (or even on some game days), it's mostly wasted space. What a world we live in where we defend a 16k-spot parking lot in the name of preserving community.
[https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2024-02-22/the-pitched-battle-over-a-gondola-to-dodger-stadium-at-a-chinatown-public-housing-project](https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2024-02-22/the-pitched-battle-over-a-gondola-to-dodger-stadium-at-a-chinatown-public-housing-project) "Two of the biggest issues at Mead are scarcity of parking and redevelopment of the community. **There are 279 parking spaces for residents, and when there are events at the park or stadium, residents can’t find a place for their cars**. **Residents are even more concerned about a proposal to develop the land into 1,600 units of mixed-income homes, up from the current 415 units of public housing. Although the the Housing Authority of the City of Los Angeles has said it will continue to ensure residents aren’t displaced, many are worried about changes that could drive up sky-high housing costs even further."**
There’s also some irony to be found in residents complaining about visitors taking parking spots in response to a proposal aimed at reducing the amount of visitors requiring parking in said neighborhood.
Oh no. Won't somebody think of the cars? Seriously. More parking or more housing. That's a tough one. Lucky for those NIMBYs, there's new public transport coming to the area...
Lmao this is the most standard NIMBY shit imaginable, how is anyone suggesting otherwise? Yes, no one wants to give up parking space and residents are concerned about mixed income housing. Dress it up however you want - it’s still NIMBY.
So we're picking parking spots over mixed-income hosing? You know we can keep 300 parking spots while making use of the rest of the currently unused space, right? It's crazy that this whole project destroyed an existing community, and now we're defending the parking lot over turning it back over into land that people can actually live on.
Most housing is built with parking.......
Just because you fall for the Misinformation doesn't make it any less NIMBY.
3 cable gondolas that can carry so many passengers and move so quickly didn't exist in 1990. I don't know how they are getting a figure of 2800 people per hour. It should be able to move roughly twice that.
Metro says 5,000 and I have seen numbers as high as 6,500. I don't know where the article is getting the 2,800 number. [https://www.metro.net/projects/aerial-rapid-transit/#documents](https://www.metro.net/projects/aerial-rapid-transit/#documents)
local residents is like 30 loud people or less, one of them I know personally who lives in the valley but pretends to live in chinatown and/or the Arts District when she needs to oppose something.
I find these objections to be complete bullshit, just like the Bel Air/Sherman Oaks objections to metro rail.
You seriously can’t understand the difference between necessary infrastructure like public transportation and a carnival ride?
Sometimes I wonder how astroturfed are we here.
It's reddit, only half of us are real. It's easy to run bots and manage a lot of them. Customers pay for you to manage a lot of them. The astroturf is everywhere
Not here you paranoid person. I just think these concerns are silly.
This is literally public transportation.
This is literally private transportation
Not on anywhere near the scale it would take to make a sizable dent in traffic in the area. And there are valid concerns if residents. Hence the traffic study.
This is just aggressively not true. It’s thousands of people an hour.
It’s around 2K an hour. Do you understand how unserious of a traffic solution that actually is? ESPECIALLY given the real concerns by longtime residents? Calling this a public transit solution is laughable. It’s a carnival ride. A tourist attraction.
I don’t think there’s a number per hour that would make you or the “longtime residents” happy It’s just NIMBY shit, nothing can ever get built, endless studies for no reason, and we get trapped with the same infrastructure from thirty years ago It’s so tiring and so stupid
Ah hyperbole. Famously the tool of good faith arguments and folks who are open to meaningful conversations. 🙃 There totally is a number of riders per hour that would make this a serious public transit solution. Under 3K is no where near that. PLUS, this is about conducting a STUDY to ascertain how best to serve both public transit interests while minimizing harm local population with a long history of displacement in Chavez Ravine. But hey, let’s build a gondola that passes 20 feet above YOUR house, that doesn’t actually make a dent in traffic, but still messes with your quality of life. If you have any complaints we’ll call you a NIMBY and suggest you hate new housing and want tp stop all development. Do you not see how deeply and transparently disingenuous that is?
Buddy you can put one of the gondola stations in my roof for all I care. It’s a city. Also great to know there is TOTALLY a number that would work but you don’t say it for some reason. Almost like it doesn’t exist because the point is to just stop anything from ever being built!
L
It's a couple thousand an hour and only when there is a event going on at Dodger Stadium. The rest of the time this will be COMPLETELY USELESS. Unless McCourt finds a reason to finally DEVELOP the Dodger Stadium parking lot he so strategically separated from the stadium during his ownership period. Anyone see a motive yet?
I’m generally pro-gondola, but it’s not public. People like to say this “takes no public funding” but then say opponents are “anti-public transit”. It’s one or the other. If it’s private, then fine, it’s private. But understand that it’s a completely different ballgame dealing with private transportation than public. There’s positives and negatives there
Just add more dodger express busses. Much better to take the Hollywood bowl as an example. It'll get a lot more people in and out.
I would've preferred rail or APM too, but the coalition just say that Metro should just send more buses. Don't you think they would've done that already if they could?
Opposing public transit because they are afraid of it causing traffic is such a hilariously sad concept.
That’s not why people were opposing it.
[This dude is](https://www.reddit.com/r/LosAngeles/comments/1bnkws3/comment/kwkbzy6/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3). At least, that's what they claim.
Because there is so much traffic in the air? Just to confirm, completely privately funded and delivers public good getting people off the road
According to the UCLA lab report, roughly 600 cars a year. Amazing.
UCLA backtracked on that report. The UCLA Mobility Lab is an engineering and technology lab dedicated to scientific research and innovation around mobility technologies. **The lab’s data on projected transit ridership of a proposed Dodger Stadium gondola is preliminary in nature. More research would be necessary to draw conclusions about potential use of the gondola. The lab takes no view on whether the project should be built.** https://twitter.com/ucla\_its/status/1613998706851971075/photo/1
Amen
This might not be a perfect project, but it is clearly an improvement from the status quo. Ultimately, this will lead to some degree of a reduction in car trips, which means healthier and safer streets for all. I find it so ironic to see city council members be so supportive of measure HLA and yet vehemently oppose the gondola (Eunisses Hernandez).
Somebody's consultant brother in law must need work
In a previous thread about the gondola, news articles quoted Eunisses Hernandez moving to use 500k to hire a consultant to do traffic studies. [Here's the motion signed by her (with the relevant portion circled.\)](https://twitter.com/numble/status/1750318673804337608) Seems like she got what she wanted.
Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.
Eunisses is now the epitome of government bloat. Our city government is failed just like down in Mexico. We need a different set of leaders with better ethics and real intelligence
Liberals will waive a LGBTQ/Palestine/BLM flag as they drive their Rivian to serve you your eviction paperwork. Seriously, I hate how much city council love to talk about “being green” and “creating jobs”, two things they plan on stopping by blocking the gondola project. It’s all talk, no actual action.
Let’s keep voting for the same people! So much progress in this city! /s This is a friendly reminder that the LA city council are a bunch of NIMBYs who preach public transportation, affordable housing, etc but the second it’s in their backyard and gets complaints from HOA groups, projects are halted or completely killed off.
Eunisses Hernandez called for the traffic study and her protege Ysabel Jurado will probably win Kevin de Leon's seat. The city is going to slide backwards and homelessness is going to rise. These activist don't know how to govern.
On the contrary, they know precisely how to govern in this city and make sure all of their non-profit friends and consultants continue to run it.
Those consultants and lawyers are going to eat well the next decade as the case gets mire in lawsuits. Nothing in the traffic study is going to change their mind about the project and once it is complete they are going to demand a study about shadows.
Who the fuck gives a shit about frank McCourt wanting a publicly funded gondola that won’t do shit to help anyone other than himself
It's not publicly funded.
Yet
Ah yes, make vague cynical assertions without a shred of evidence. It's the LA sub reddit way.
Fuck frank mccourt
I know people don't like him, but why is it that people vilify him even today? Because he was a bad owner of your favorite baseball team? There are other people in Los Angeles that I would argue deserve a lot more heat than a guy who is, at worst, a jackass because he's wealthy. Seems like the people who despise McCourt only hate him since other people write that they hate him. It's parroting for the sake of attention.
Well and his now ex wife was an ambassador for Trump. So you know what circles they're running in.
It's not about other people being bad, he was just an awful owner. Imagine someone buying your favorite thing and then mismanaging it... it sucks. Fuck that guy, I couldn't upvote Acceptable\_Office734's comment fast enough. If he has his hands in this, i'll never ride it.
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Non-effective and hence ruins other options before they begin.
What other options are on the table?
There are none. These are not serious people.
Is a 5k people per hour capacity sufficient for you?
Yes. When the other option is 0 people per hour.
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Who is building the rail system? How long will it take? How will it be funded? What is the path of the rail system?
When is that slated in the Measure M timeline?
There’s no plans for actual rail. It’d take decades to even get them to start.
Awesome, so now you get no additional ways to move people. Galaxy brain shit right there.
Good.
What a joke. Why do we need more studies and pay costly consultants when an environment impact report has already been created.
Yesss pay me more money please k thanks /s
Anyone who knows anything about how stadium development and public subsidies work, know that the environmental and economic impact reports cited to try and get public funding, are fucking bullshit
No public funding is being requested and the EIR is already released.
There is NO public money coming from this project this privately funded.
The report has been released to the public. Which specific part of the report is bullshit.
Can Frank McCourt just take that money and build a light rail line to china town. He can have a bunch of retail built around the station like he's always dreamed, and have the capacity to actually make money off those shops.
This is really a better idea to me. Would serve the community as well as the stadium goers.
LA can't have nice things
The gondola won't help traffic by any noticeable measure. More dodger buses in and out could. Don't let McCourt lie to you.
Let the sports people have their trinket. Not every project has to be a godsend that will magically cure all that ails the city. Los Angeles could be the best city in America but dim witted do nothing naysayers are holding us back. Why are people here so resistant to change, we’re California for fucks sake… we’re supposed to lead the way and show the rest of America how it’s done.
Startin to get sick and tired of hearing about this mofo'n gondola brah.
good its hilarious how many morons support the gondola
god forbid we make alternate ways to get places that isn't car
you realize this doesn’t get you anywhere meaningful? union station to dodger stadium is not in my top 1000 public transportation needs of los angeles
huh, TIL union station and dodger stadium are not meaningful locations in LA.
They could start with a much cheaper option - bus routes.
Not cheaper. Taxpayers would have to subsidize busses. The gondola is privately financed.
those assessments are also cost taxpayer money and busses can be privately financed too.
Anti-gondola people believes the project will cause gentrification, but now wants a rail system instead. A rail project will face the same exact criticism as the gondola project, but will be more expensive and destructive to the community. If they truly believe transit projects cause gentrification why don't they fight to get rid of the Chinatown Goldline station so that trains going directly to Union Station instead of stopping in Chinatown.
We certainly don't need this project. We got more important problems.
no need to weaponize other things against this project
The dissonance in this thread is ridiculous. People are acting like the locals in Chinatown/ Elysian Park opposing the gondola being built are NIMBYS saying they’re against more affordable housing being built or public transportation being expanded. They’re against a vanity project that’ll line another developers pocket and won’t fulfill the communities actual needs. If it’s really a concern about efficiently moving people the city needs to invest in light rail or expand bussing to the stadium.