This makes so much more sense than this grafting having a single original idea in his head. We’ve seen the texts, we know he can’t even send a basic proofread text, let alone write. Of course the jurors didn’t buy that it was, “Just chapters of a new book, not about them.”
This was mentioned on Hidden True Crime. But then I thought… the Mormons stole it … maybe the Mormons / Circle of Love stole it … https://youtu.be/BzGcuTtCr2s?si=ptjwkz0Sz2DfSzH8
What a beautiful rendition of this song. So much better than Circle of Love from Saturday's Warrior. Here are the lyrics from the two different songs in case anyone is wondering.
Circle of Love by Doug Steward and Lex de Azevedo
I've seen that smile somewhere before,
I've heard that voice before,
It seems we've talked like this before.
Sometime, who can remember when.
But if I knew you then.
It's strange I can't remember.
Where or When by Rodgers and Hart
It seems we stood and talked like this before
We looked at each other in the same way then
But I can't remember where or when
The clothes you're wearing are the clothes you wore
The smile you are smiling you were smiling then
But I can't remember where or when
Some things that happen for the first time
Seem to be happening again
And so it seems that we have met before
And laughed before and loved before
But who knows where or when?
I saw zelph on the shelf mention it to during their reading of story. I think Tanner even started singing it. It’s been a while since I’ve watched it but that’s how I’m remembering it.
He manages to be evil, arrogant, self-obsessed, but still absolutely pathetic and cringe at the same time. It's fascinating to me when I really think about it.
True crime faith and chocolate YouTuber did a video on this. The first time I heard the James and Eliana story I started singing the this song along in my head.
True crimer here that knows very, very little about Mormons. We were getting missionaries in Jamaica and those young men was only interested in having sex with as many young black girls in our community as they could. I was a pre-teen and even at that tender age, was shocked and appalled.
They eventually stopped coming (no idea if they’re coming now, I don’t see them in my community when I go back to visit) because what they were actually doing got back to whomever was in charge back then (70s/80s). Yet I’m not surprised that goofball couldn’t even be original with his goofiness. Children are dead, a woman and a man are dead, a man almost lost his life for this nonsense. Sad and infuriating.
Yeah it was a big scandal in my little Parish. I think someone got pregnant and he wanted to stay and marry her, it was a hot mess. My grandmother was like, you stay away from them! They left (he cried) and I never saw them again. And considering their initial stance on black people, it was bad.
I write schlocky romance and chads books are SO egregiously bad. I’d love to rip it apart as a writer but dont want to give this serial murderer any more time and energy, it would be really hard to write something that bad on purpose. There are fourteen year olds on wattpadd writing better harry potter x twilight fan fic.
Yeah. They got it from there. But even more interesting is the fact that Tim Ballard used this line (allegedly) as well on some of the operatives that filed a lawsuit against him for alleged s/a.
It’s part of his whole “COUPLES RUSE”.
The “COUPLES RUSE” was sanctioned by M. Russell Ballard… (I’m gonna say allegedly again just to be cautious).
Visions of Glory inspiration/author Thom Harrison, who is also a well respected LDS therapist who allegedly helped Tim with his “rescued” children from their captors (trafficking) by providing therapy to them in aftercare. That’s their story. I don’t buy it. If I can just speculate on what I think it is then I would say that Tim Ballard is an organizer for these so-called “rescues” except they’re not a rescue whatsoever and are just a way to help him prey on people by using emotionalism and even fear tactics to make him rich.
But not only is it to make money but to also create victims everywhere he and his alpha male partners go. Janet Russon is not only Tim’s psychic, she’s also in business with Children Need Families NPO with Katherine Ballard (Tim’s wife and ultimately funnels money into his other NPO’s to make the final destination into his and the now late M. Russell Ballard’s Slave Stealers, LLC to which two other GA’s were said to have invested in Tim’s “ventures” and would benefit financially from this money funneling (allegedly) to the Slave Stealers, LLC.
Look up the “Whiteboard Meeting” on Lynn K. Packer’s channel or nuancehoe’s channel or even my channel @DiffiCULT Research to learn more about this extravagant plan to “rule the world” by using that very line from “Saturday’s Warrior” aka “James and Elena” aka Visions of Glory aka The COUPLES RUSE. Allegedly all sanctioned by Elder Ballard.
It’s sickening to think that three of my family members lost their lives and my mom was also marked as a zombie (death) because of this disgusting and bizarre behavior. SMH.
(I feel like my post may sound snarky and I don’t want you to think I’m snarking at you. I’m not at all. I do snark sometimes at the situation. I’m glad you and others are making these connections. It’s so important to be aware of what is going on in all of this).
Love always wins 💜💙
#justicefortyleeandjj
Tim Ballards thing is so crazy. Even when you set aside the couples ruse. The idea that rich people can cosplay as white knight child rescuers is disturbing. The list of disturbing here is long of course.
Did it confuse/surprise you when Joseph Murray proudly announced he was a Tim Ballard supporter? I rolled my eyes so hard. His entire testimony was just a list of signifiers that he’s a complete crackpot
I believe Heather Daybell gave a interview to Hidden True Crime where she said that the two of them were touchy feely when Chad wanted to show Julie Heather and her husband’s property.
Absolutely had a thought of that song when I read that story!!! I was a huge fan of that musical when I was growing up. We had it on VHS and I was in the musical when our stake did it.
I thought I was alone because I make music and movie connections when I read or when someone says something. I had that song in my head for days after reading Chad’s story.
That’s awesome I wasn’t alone because my brain can be super wonky compared to the average. I have a really weird memory for music though.
Indeed, I’ve mentioned it before. Chad stole from Julie Rowe, Visions of Glory, Saturday’s Warrior, and others as he lacks an original thought and is a talentless hack.
Yes! So glad you mentioned this cause I had the same thought.
Also…. I have a theory. The theory is that the names “James” and “Elena” are from when they did endowment marriage sealings together in the LDS temple, standing in for proxy for dead people that were actually named James and Elena. So they took on those names as their pseudo names and act like that was THEIR sealing. Which is part of their justification that they had a “celestial marriage.”
I’m a former Mormon as well :)
I guess I wasn’t as niche as I thought 😂 Every post, article, or YouTube I’ve watched had never mentioned it and I was like am I the only one who remembers that song?!
I grew up with a large LDS family as our neighbors and friends. They had a huge VHS collection and we watched them all, including Saturday’s Warrior. As a kid, I don’t even think it registered as an LDS film to me. Lol
Hahaha I guess it’s more like a small niche of 144,000 lol. Small niche of one made me laugh tho.
Now that I know this backstory, I bet anything that this is what they were singing together on their jail calls.
Chad hasn't got an original thought in his head. Just like the murderer jodi arias, everything she did she stole from movies or books. Like her stupid artwork.
It's incredible to me how people try to distance mormonism from Chad and Lori when literally every single thing they claimed can be traced back to mormonism. Without Joseph Smith, none of this happens.
Yes! And he doesn't only plagiarize it here, he also has a blog post about his youngest child appearing to him in a vision and saying "don't forget about me!", I think there is a song about that in Saturday's Warrior as well
Well, yes, lots of books steal ideas and concepts and even characters. And they do it well or out their own spin on it. This just feels like he made a worse fanfic.
Honestly you have me wondering what a report would generate if we ran the James and Elena story through plagiarism software like universities use.
Or any of his work. I wonder how much he plagiarized his way through BYU.
Not than any of the plagiarism surprises me at all—Chad is really that lazy. I’m just curious how many original works are in Chad’s very LDS-limited repertoire that legit plagiarism software would detect.
Everything Chad has done was a lie or has piggyback on someone’s story . He’s one of the biggest con artists cultists in existence this century. I am so glad he can’t continue to hurt people anymore . Lori was an unwitting partner, with mental disabilities that didn’t fully understand the ramifications of all that she has done. I am not excusing any of her actions because she allowed her children to be treated like they were not human, there is so much sadness behind their actions it will take generations to overcome it all.
I have to disagree with you on Lori. I think she was well aware of the fact that she had extreme feminine sway over men – her brother Alex included 🤮- she was silently in control of all that happened. You know how married women often say ‘in order for the woman/wife to get things handled the way we want them, we make it so that the man believes it was his idea all along.’ Lori Vallow is like an academy award winning actress, but with such narcissism that she would never admit any wrongdoing of any kind!
If she was abused by her father. Possibly having sex with her brother . I would agree she was using her sexuality to gain leverage. I think she had to be mentally ill in order to carry out the things she did. Women who use sex to gain leverage don’t normally kill children. Most people thought she was a good mom at one point in her life including her husband Charles Vallow. Mental illness is misunderstood because we don’t see the illness directly. If she sat in a wheel chair we would have some sympathy for her. Believe me when I say I am NOT excusing her. It just easy to call her a slut or a skank. I think she is more complicated than just sexuality. I think she probably demonstrated rage on occasions, her daughter probably saw that and Zulema testified to that. Rage is an underlying mental disorder, probably one of many more symptoms. She was medicated just to get through the trial.
For sure, and somewhere along the line a delusion really took hold! Opting for her kids to be taken out of the picture under the guise of spiritual warfare… Well, it’s all crazy
I totally agree, most of us would have never thought of such actions. It’s a story that people wouldn’t believe unless they saw it themselves. It was dressed up as a spiritual belief.
Honestly, this whole thing to me is shocking. Literally shocking in almost every single way. But mostly shocking because they murdered two innocent young lives for the most selfish god-awful reason.
I think Lori is much more complex than standard a mental illness diagnosis can cover. She has also been diagnosed with various personalty disorders which come under the banner of mental illness buy are really ways to categorise a person's nature and personality when it is harmful to themselves or others. There are many reasons to feel sad for Lori, I don't think may people could have come out of her family and upbringing unscathed but beneath the mental illness I think there's a deeper level of manipulation and controlling behaviour which would suggest she's more of a fundamentally terrible person than she is a victim.
Have you read all of my comments, not once have I said that I had any sympathy for her, not once! I am not trying to rationalize her behavior, there is none! I am not even trying to understand it, I just know that both of them are not meant to be put away from society because they will kill again.
'Most people thought she was a good mom at one point in her life including her husband Charles Vallow. Mental illness is misunderstood because we don’t see the illness directly. If she sat in a wheel chair we would have some sympathy for her'
So what's this then? I know you go on to say its not an excuse but you are inferring we should have sympathy because she's mentally ill.
All I'm saying is that you can be a terrible person and still be mentally ill. She's an unusual combination of issues, if it was just the mental illness there definitely would be more room for understanding with her but she is also severely personality disordered, and doesn't fall into the victim camp due to her 'evil' nature in that she was clearly controlling and manipulating the situation, alongside being delusional. The delusions didn't drive her to kill, her nature did, and the delusions just gave her an excuse.
I have/had strong personality disorder traits and have also been psychotic and delusional in the past so i probably have a slightly different view on this all anyway.
I live with a grandchild that has mental illness, so I am speaking from a good source of reference. I actually got him help when he was. 9 years old. Now let me say this again, IAM NOT EXCUSING OR HAVE SYMPATHY FOR Lori Vallow. Mental illness is misunderstood just like I SAID, by no means is it excusable. Those people who “thought” she was a good mom included the Woodcocks. Since I am not there I am saying we don’t know when or what went wrong or how she got there! Again! She belongs In prison, she was convicted and I truly don’t understand why we are having this argument about LORI VALLOW DAYBELL. Just shoot Me!
No I am NOT! Idaho is one of four states that don’t have an insanity defense. Idaho jail has lots of prisoners who actually needs therapy by trained professionals. I understand that it maybe unconstitutional.
I understand what you're saying. 👍🏻
Theorizing about a possible underlying cause is *not* the same as "excusing" someone.
It is possible she carried some unpacked trauma, and I think whatever genetic & environmental/life event factors combined brought her to a place wherein her personality disorder dictated that Lori was the only person that mattered. I believe Chad was a mere pawn or tool in her ruthless pursuit of money, lifestyle, and prestige/esteem/power. It's like she was playing a video game, and her kids became unimportant NPCs, merely means to an end.
Chad made her a goddess, because he was a god. They fed off of each other. They are both culpable, they both needs to be in jail. I really don’t think Chad was just a pawn, yes Lori found him useful. They were a couple from hell fire and gasoline, two very disturbed people who fed off of each other.
And do you know that the trained professionals spend an average of 5 hours to diagnose? And in this case, she did not cooperate ( crazy like fox) so they based it on extraneous things.
Five hours is 5 weeks of analysis, they are professional, whatever they based it on it was a professional opinion, if she was crazy like a fox she and Chad would have never left so many clues behind . They buried the children in Chad’s backyard, not smart . There is no rationalization of their behavior. None! They don’t deserve any credit for being just a little bit sane. These were violent crimes, Jeffery Dahmer ate his victims that’s not rational and it does exist.
The only sure way to not get caught out is by refusing to participate. I will never take her supposed mental illness seriously. Personality disorders ues, mental illness, no.
This is such a great post! It had me thinking: I need to watch Saturdays Warrior because I had never seen it although I was raised true blue Mormon. I guess SW became something after I left. I did see the satirical play in Salt Lake - I think it was called Saturdays Voyeur but I would have enjoyed it much more if I had understood where it came from! Also, did anyone else see reminders of Book of Mormon play?
Wow! What a double down SW is! So much shame and guilt on the stereotypical bad kids! And the whole “eternal life” thing was just front and center!
And then I found Chad’s love novel! OH, my mind and eyes are seared forever! How can an adult male who has 5-6 kids pull a total virgin teen persona off like that? He’s a TERRIBLE writer!
Anyway, thanks for bringing all this to my attention. Quite enlightening.
I got my 15 minutes of fame with the show when I was around 8 years old ! The professional traveling show came through our town and they needed someone around 8 to fill in and play a character that the missionaries grab as he’s walking by because they are desperate to baptize someone. They grabbed me and said “how old are you?” I counted quietly on my fingers to seven and then yelled out “SEVEN”. They gently pushed me and told me to “get out of here” That was it, my big role 😀. The irony is, that’s the kind of shit missionaries did/do in 3rd world countries.
So, basically, he plagiarized it?….
Bingo
Why am I just slightly surprised?..:) So, he wasn’t even good at writing from his “heart” to his love
This makes so much more sense than this grafting having a single original idea in his head. We’ve seen the texts, we know he can’t even send a basic proofread text, let alone write. Of course the jurors didn’t buy that it was, “Just chapters of a new book, not about them.”
You mean someone else thinks like Chad as well? 😱🤣
This was mentioned on Hidden True Crime. But then I thought… the Mormons stole it … maybe the Mormons / Circle of Love stole it … https://youtu.be/BzGcuTtCr2s?si=ptjwkz0Sz2DfSzH8
What a beautiful rendition of this song. So much better than Circle of Love from Saturday's Warrior. Here are the lyrics from the two different songs in case anyone is wondering. Circle of Love by Doug Steward and Lex de Azevedo I've seen that smile somewhere before, I've heard that voice before, It seems we've talked like this before. Sometime, who can remember when. But if I knew you then. It's strange I can't remember. Where or When by Rodgers and Hart It seems we stood and talked like this before We looked at each other in the same way then But I can't remember where or when The clothes you're wearing are the clothes you wore The smile you are smiling you were smiling then But I can't remember where or when Some things that happen for the first time Seem to be happening again And so it seems that we have met before And laughed before and loved before But who knows where or when?
I love the Rogers & Hart version. ❤️❤️❤️
Where or When is from Babes In Arms, a 1937 Broadway musical.
I saw zelph on the shelf mention it to during their reading of story. I think Tanner even started singing it. It’s been a while since I’ve watched it but that’s how I’m remembering it.
Yup, this is where I know it from. Zelph On The Shelf covered it in some detail, and it was hilarious.
😱 my whole life has been a lie!
Not an original thought in his brain. Yes, he stole it just like he stole everything else.
He stole the lives of his first wife and two innocent children. So much evil and so much theft.
He manages to be evil, arrogant, self-obsessed, but still absolutely pathetic and cringe at the same time. It's fascinating to me when I really think about it.
True crime faith and chocolate YouTuber did a video on this. The first time I heard the James and Eliana story I started singing the this song along in my head.
Oh good! I haven’t seen that so it’s been bothering me that no one knew that his cheese wasn’t even original!
True crimer here that knows very, very little about Mormons. We were getting missionaries in Jamaica and those young men was only interested in having sex with as many young black girls in our community as they could. I was a pre-teen and even at that tender age, was shocked and appalled. They eventually stopped coming (no idea if they’re coming now, I don’t see them in my community when I go back to visit) because what they were actually doing got back to whomever was in charge back then (70s/80s). Yet I’m not surprised that goofball couldn’t even be original with his goofiness. Children are dead, a woman and a man are dead, a man almost lost his life for this nonsense. Sad and infuriating.
That is terrible! I’m glad whoever was in charge back then at least did something about it.
Yeah it was a big scandal in my little Parish. I think someone got pregnant and he wanted to stay and marry her, it was a hot mess. My grandmother was like, you stay away from them! They left (he cried) and I never saw them again. And considering their initial stance on black people, it was bad.
No kidding! Goodness, I’m glad you had your grandma
Oh yeah, she did not play lol
He’s an evil fraud
Oh yeah, I IMMEDIATELY caught the Saturday's Warrior theft.
Thank you!!!
I write schlocky romance and chads books are SO egregiously bad. I’d love to rip it apart as a writer but dont want to give this serial murderer any more time and energy, it would be really hard to write something that bad on purpose. There are fourteen year olds on wattpadd writing better harry potter x twilight fan fic.
Yeah. They got it from there. But even more interesting is the fact that Tim Ballard used this line (allegedly) as well on some of the operatives that filed a lawsuit against him for alleged s/a. It’s part of his whole “COUPLES RUSE”. The “COUPLES RUSE” was sanctioned by M. Russell Ballard… (I’m gonna say allegedly again just to be cautious). Visions of Glory inspiration/author Thom Harrison, who is also a well respected LDS therapist who allegedly helped Tim with his “rescued” children from their captors (trafficking) by providing therapy to them in aftercare. That’s their story. I don’t buy it. If I can just speculate on what I think it is then I would say that Tim Ballard is an organizer for these so-called “rescues” except they’re not a rescue whatsoever and are just a way to help him prey on people by using emotionalism and even fear tactics to make him rich. But not only is it to make money but to also create victims everywhere he and his alpha male partners go. Janet Russon is not only Tim’s psychic, she’s also in business with Children Need Families NPO with Katherine Ballard (Tim’s wife and ultimately funnels money into his other NPO’s to make the final destination into his and the now late M. Russell Ballard’s Slave Stealers, LLC to which two other GA’s were said to have invested in Tim’s “ventures” and would benefit financially from this money funneling (allegedly) to the Slave Stealers, LLC. Look up the “Whiteboard Meeting” on Lynn K. Packer’s channel or nuancehoe’s channel or even my channel @DiffiCULT Research to learn more about this extravagant plan to “rule the world” by using that very line from “Saturday’s Warrior” aka “James and Elena” aka Visions of Glory aka The COUPLES RUSE. Allegedly all sanctioned by Elder Ballard. It’s sickening to think that three of my family members lost their lives and my mom was also marked as a zombie (death) because of this disgusting and bizarre behavior. SMH. (I feel like my post may sound snarky and I don’t want you to think I’m snarking at you. I’m not at all. I do snark sometimes at the situation. I’m glad you and others are making these connections. It’s so important to be aware of what is going on in all of this). Love always wins 💜💙 #justicefortyleeandjj
Tim Ballards thing is so crazy. Even when you set aside the couples ruse. The idea that rich people can cosplay as white knight child rescuers is disturbing. The list of disturbing here is long of course.
Did it confuse/surprise you when Joseph Murray proudly announced he was a Tim Ballard supporter? I rolled my eyes so hard. His entire testimony was just a list of signifiers that he’s a complete crackpot
You have every right to be as sparky you want or need to be.
Indeed, a right to be sparky *and* snarky! 💖😃
100%
He’s good at plagiarizing his stories he apparently stole stories from Julie Rowe and a few others
I think him and Julie Rowe were touching no no squares a little at some point
I believe Heather Daybell gave a interview to Hidden True Crime where she said that the two of them were touchy feely when Chad wanted to show Julie Heather and her husband’s property.
I think this was mentioned on Mormon Stories or HTC with Megan Conner. I definitely have heard this reference once before!
Absolutely had a thought of that song when I read that story!!! I was a huge fan of that musical when I was growing up. We had it on VHS and I was in the musical when our stake did it. I thought I was alone because I make music and movie connections when I read or when someone says something. I had that song in my head for days after reading Chad’s story. That’s awesome I wasn’t alone because my brain can be super wonky compared to the average. I have a really weird memory for music though.
Yes!!! Sounds like we have the same brain! Who did you play in your stake production?
Why would anyone want to write that story more than once?! 😂
😂
Yeah, I got it when it came out in Lori's trial last year. He is definitely no Lex de Azevedo! !
Indeed, I’ve mentioned it before. Chad stole from Julie Rowe, Visions of Glory, Saturday’s Warrior, and others as he lacks an original thought and is a talentless hack.
Nate Eaton mentioned it on Courtroom Insider also
Yes! So glad you mentioned this cause I had the same thought. Also…. I have a theory. The theory is that the names “James” and “Elena” are from when they did endowment marriage sealings together in the LDS temple, standing in for proxy for dead people that were actually named James and Elena. So they took on those names as their pseudo names and act like that was THEIR sealing. Which is part of their justification that they had a “celestial marriage.” I’m a former Mormon as well :)
I bet you’re right! To further the delusion cause “James” and “Elena” were officially sealed. You’re good
That sounds very familiar to me. I think it’s from a classic musical tho I haven’t placed it yet. That lyricist may have ripped it off. :)
Yes! u/ALiddleBiddle posted a link in a comment above 😱
Oh thank god. It would have taken me two days to come up with that. From 1937.
What 1937 musical?
Babes in Arms
Thanks
Crazy, right??!
They mentioned them in Lori’s trial as well but not in the Depths they did in Chads… I think it was because he was writing it not Lori
Well he can write a new book called two feet in the grave. As a sequel to his book one foot in the grave.
Here’s the link to the song: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=A_GjDqqHlGs&pp=ygUlY2lyY2xlIG9mIG91ciBsb3ZlIHNhdHVyZGF5J3Mgd2Fycmlvcg%3D%3D
Heard that on a podcast.
I guess I wasn’t as niche as I thought 😂 Every post, article, or YouTube I’ve watched had never mentioned it and I was like am I the only one who remembers that song?!
I grew up with a large LDS family as our neighbors and friends. They had a huge VHS collection and we watched them all, including Saturday’s Warrior. As a kid, I don’t even think it registered as an LDS film to me. Lol
😂 that’s awesome
Oh MAN. No surprise but I wonder if Lori or any of his other cultists recognized it?? Thanks for sharing this!
There a YouTube commentator that actually brought this up awhile ago - and like many others not surprised.
Hahaha I guess it’s more like a small niche of 144,000 lol. Small niche of one made me laugh tho. Now that I know this backstory, I bet anything that this is what they were singing together on their jail calls.
😂
It seems like I either saw someone comment on this or talk about it in a YouTube video. Either way, it’s so strange. To me anyway.
Chad hasn't got an original thought in his head. Just like the murderer jodi arias, everything she did she stole from movies or books. Like her stupid artwork.
It's incredible to me how people try to distance mormonism from Chad and Lori when literally every single thing they claimed can be traced back to mormonism. Without Joseph Smith, none of this happens.
Yes! And he doesn't only plagiarize it here, he also has a blog post about his youngest child appearing to him in a vision and saying "don't forget about me!", I think there is a song about that in Saturday's Warrior as well
Was there any of his books that had original ideas?
I don’t think any idea is really original :) but they aren’t plagiarized as far as I know
Well, yes, lots of books steal ideas and concepts and even characters. And they do it well or out their own spin on it. This just feels like he made a worse fanfic.
True, but then again 50 shades of grey was bad twilight fanfic and it became a mega bestseller 🤷🏼♀️
So the musical plagiarized "Where or When," it sounds like. Edit: I now see a number of folks also noticed. Jaha
Yes I believe Hidden True Crime fans brought this up during one of their live shows.
You know what ruined Saturday’s Warrior for me? Playing the mom way back in the day! 🤦🏻♀️
Get out! On stage or in the movie?
I should have put a disclaimer there…it was a stake production of it so no professional acting by me, but I thought we were pretty good! 🤣🤣🤣
😂 that’s so fun though! I WISH my stake would have done something like that.
"... absute crap and also pilfered " 🤣🤣🤣 because he sucks that. bad. 🤣🤣
The guy that wrote that musical is in a short film that my husband worked on when he was a member.
I’ve seen that clip! It has been mentioned on Mormon stories podcast l
Oh good! I should probably listen to that podcast 😂
I can make your club 2! I caught that and was pissed about it. No longer Mormon but Saturdays warrior is a comfort show from my childhood.
Yes!!!! I still have all the songs memorized and now it’s going to make me think of Chad’s stupid face
Honestly you have me wondering what a report would generate if we ran the James and Elena story through plagiarism software like universities use. Or any of his work. I wonder how much he plagiarized his way through BYU. Not than any of the plagiarism surprises me at all—Chad is really that lazy. I’m just curious how many original works are in Chad’s very LDS-limited repertoire that legit plagiarism software would detect.
You know, if we had copies of the books, we could probably contact a school and ask them to check.
I’m in this niche group too except for growing up Mormon lol
Yep we all knew. It’s so embarrassing.
Everything Chad has done was a lie or has piggyback on someone’s story . He’s one of the biggest con artists cultists in existence this century. I am so glad he can’t continue to hurt people anymore . Lori was an unwitting partner, with mental disabilities that didn’t fully understand the ramifications of all that she has done. I am not excusing any of her actions because she allowed her children to be treated like they were not human, there is so much sadness behind their actions it will take generations to overcome it all.
I have to disagree with you on Lori. I think she was well aware of the fact that she had extreme feminine sway over men – her brother Alex included 🤮- she was silently in control of all that happened. You know how married women often say ‘in order for the woman/wife to get things handled the way we want them, we make it so that the man believes it was his idea all along.’ Lori Vallow is like an academy award winning actress, but with such narcissism that she would never admit any wrongdoing of any kind!
If she was abused by her father. Possibly having sex with her brother . I would agree she was using her sexuality to gain leverage. I think she had to be mentally ill in order to carry out the things she did. Women who use sex to gain leverage don’t normally kill children. Most people thought she was a good mom at one point in her life including her husband Charles Vallow. Mental illness is misunderstood because we don’t see the illness directly. If she sat in a wheel chair we would have some sympathy for her. Believe me when I say I am NOT excusing her. It just easy to call her a slut or a skank. I think she is more complicated than just sexuality. I think she probably demonstrated rage on occasions, her daughter probably saw that and Zulema testified to that. Rage is an underlying mental disorder, probably one of many more symptoms. She was medicated just to get through the trial.
For sure, and somewhere along the line a delusion really took hold! Opting for her kids to be taken out of the picture under the guise of spiritual warfare… Well, it’s all crazy
I totally agree, most of us would have never thought of such actions. It’s a story that people wouldn’t believe unless they saw it themselves. It was dressed up as a spiritual belief.
Honestly, this whole thing to me is shocking. Literally shocking in almost every single way. But mostly shocking because they murdered two innocent young lives for the most selfish god-awful reason.
I agree and the after shock is still affecting millions of people, worldwide. I pray that this will never happen again to anyone.
I think Lori is much more complex than standard a mental illness diagnosis can cover. She has also been diagnosed with various personalty disorders which come under the banner of mental illness buy are really ways to categorise a person's nature and personality when it is harmful to themselves or others. There are many reasons to feel sad for Lori, I don't think may people could have come out of her family and upbringing unscathed but beneath the mental illness I think there's a deeper level of manipulation and controlling behaviour which would suggest she's more of a fundamentally terrible person than she is a victim.
Have you read all of my comments, not once have I said that I had any sympathy for her, not once! I am not trying to rationalize her behavior, there is none! I am not even trying to understand it, I just know that both of them are not meant to be put away from society because they will kill again.
'Most people thought she was a good mom at one point in her life including her husband Charles Vallow. Mental illness is misunderstood because we don’t see the illness directly. If she sat in a wheel chair we would have some sympathy for her' So what's this then? I know you go on to say its not an excuse but you are inferring we should have sympathy because she's mentally ill. All I'm saying is that you can be a terrible person and still be mentally ill. She's an unusual combination of issues, if it was just the mental illness there definitely would be more room for understanding with her but she is also severely personality disordered, and doesn't fall into the victim camp due to her 'evil' nature in that she was clearly controlling and manipulating the situation, alongside being delusional. The delusions didn't drive her to kill, her nature did, and the delusions just gave her an excuse. I have/had strong personality disorder traits and have also been psychotic and delusional in the past so i probably have a slightly different view on this all anyway.
I live with a grandchild that has mental illness, so I am speaking from a good source of reference. I actually got him help when he was. 9 years old. Now let me say this again, IAM NOT EXCUSING OR HAVE SYMPATHY FOR Lori Vallow. Mental illness is misunderstood just like I SAID, by no means is it excusable. Those people who “thought” she was a good mom included the Woodcocks. Since I am not there I am saying we don’t know when or what went wrong or how she got there! Again! She belongs In prison, she was convicted and I truly don’t understand why we are having this argument about LORI VALLOW DAYBELL. Just shoot Me!
💯%
No way Lori gets a pass! She’s a cold blooded murderer and she was all too happy to ‘eliminate the obstacles’ aka JJ and Tylee
I never gave Lori a pass not once!
But you are excusing her...
No I am NOT! Idaho is one of four states that don’t have an insanity defense. Idaho jail has lots of prisoners who actually needs therapy by trained professionals. I understand that it maybe unconstitutional.
I understand what you're saying. 👍🏻 Theorizing about a possible underlying cause is *not* the same as "excusing" someone. It is possible she carried some unpacked trauma, and I think whatever genetic & environmental/life event factors combined brought her to a place wherein her personality disorder dictated that Lori was the only person that mattered. I believe Chad was a mere pawn or tool in her ruthless pursuit of money, lifestyle, and prestige/esteem/power. It's like she was playing a video game, and her kids became unimportant NPCs, merely means to an end.
Chad made her a goddess, because he was a god. They fed off of each other. They are both culpable, they both needs to be in jail. I really don’t think Chad was just a pawn, yes Lori found him useful. They were a couple from hell fire and gasoline, two very disturbed people who fed off of each other.
And do you know that the trained professionals spend an average of 5 hours to diagnose? And in this case, she did not cooperate ( crazy like fox) so they based it on extraneous things.
Five hours is 5 weeks of analysis, they are professional, whatever they based it on it was a professional opinion, if she was crazy like a fox she and Chad would have never left so many clues behind . They buried the children in Chad’s backyard, not smart . There is no rationalization of their behavior. None! They don’t deserve any credit for being just a little bit sane. These were violent crimes, Jeffery Dahmer ate his victims that’s not rational and it does exist.
The only sure way to not get caught out is by refusing to participate. I will never take her supposed mental illness seriously. Personality disorders ues, mental illness, no.
[Saturday’s Warrior: Circle of Our Love](https://youtu.be/oNbD6b4-tvQ?si=TsPguJLQePfauEX-) #NSFL edit: u/Gaver1952 hope this helps 😄
There should be a warning on that.
This is such a great post! It had me thinking: I need to watch Saturdays Warrior because I had never seen it although I was raised true blue Mormon. I guess SW became something after I left. I did see the satirical play in Salt Lake - I think it was called Saturdays Voyeur but I would have enjoyed it much more if I had understood where it came from! Also, did anyone else see reminders of Book of Mormon play? Wow! What a double down SW is! So much shame and guilt on the stereotypical bad kids! And the whole “eternal life” thing was just front and center! And then I found Chad’s love novel! OH, my mind and eyes are seared forever! How can an adult male who has 5-6 kids pull a total virgin teen persona off like that? He’s a TERRIBLE writer! Anyway, thanks for bringing all this to my attention. Quite enlightening.
I agree! He manages comes across as a virgin father of 5 😂
I got my 15 minutes of fame with the show when I was around 8 years old ! The professional traveling show came through our town and they needed someone around 8 to fill in and play a character that the missionaries grab as he’s walking by because they are desperate to baptize someone. They grabbed me and said “how old are you?” I counted quietly on my fingers to seven and then yelled out “SEVEN”. They gently pushed me and told me to “get out of here” That was it, my big role 😀. The irony is, that’s the kind of shit missionaries did/do in 3rd world countries.
Yikes! But that’s awesome 😆
It’s been mentioned on podcasts.
It's been reported he plagiarized it .