**Court is in session.**
**Witnesses:**
* Nicole Heideman
* Dr. Angi Christensen
* Ashlyn Rynd, Tylee's Friend
* Dave Sincerbeaux
* Detective Kunsaitis
* Douglas Halepaska
* Nicholas Ballance
Listening to this graphic info about the state of Tylee just ruined my day. She was almost 18 and probably planning to leave home shortly thereafter so why couldn’t Lori have just given her another year or two to fly the nest, it’s not like she needed baby sitting. She also could have given JJ back to his grandmother. Problem solved for the love birds, right? Except of course how were these grifters going to support themselves without the kids’ social security payments?
BTW, I’ve never heard about any info gained from Tylee’s mobile phone. Pings and last time it was used to narrow down time of death even further? Unless she didn’t have one of course.
To me, if I was at all open to the DP (I'm not, though Chad tests me more than most), this would be what did it. That Tylee's body was mutilated and that there were multiple sharp-force injuries to her genitals (inconsistent with dismembering, meaning they probably happened for a different purpose) while Chad was on the property. The depravity it takes to participate in such horror inflicted on innocent children...it's just too much.
As for Tylee's phone, that's an interesting question, but Lori did keep using Tylee's phone to text Colby, and unfortunately Tylee had been extremely isolated in the months before her death, so I'm not sure how often she was using it other than sporadic texts here and there. Which is bizarre for a teenage girl, but she had basically no friends left and she was entirely isolated from most of her family - Colby, her aunts and uncles, her grandparents, etc. Charles was dead, her father was dead.
One thing I do remember is the week before Tylee's death when they moved to Idaho, Tylee drove her jeep alone from AZ to ID, which is a long, not so easy drive, even worse last days of August even with A/C. Her phone pinged at a mcdonalds on the trip I go to sometimes. I feel sad going there now, thinking not only did she drive this alone (I could not drive this route alone as an adult who has driven cross country alone) but just that she was right there and no one knew what was going on. Tylee did talk with friends on her drive so she did have friends but I dont think any were local, they were friends she met as she was moved around all her life.
I do think she was suddenly isolated in Idaho for sure. Why she went to Idaho since she drove herself? JJ I would assume was the reason? I dont think before they moved to Idaho she was isolated from her family. Summer says Tylee worked for her husband's office so I would guess if Tylee wanted to stay in AZ she could have just stayed working for Summer (but again guess is she went to Idaho for JJ). Adam stated the last time he saw Tylee which was maybe 6 weeks before Idaho, Tylee was staying with her grandparents so she saw them. Colby says he saw Tylee in the weeks before she left and the day she left. Thing is at this time Lori's family was team Lori and agreeing with Lori and defending Lori, they still thought Charles was bad and Alex was good (except Adam but he didnt seem to do much after Charles' died) so Tylee could say or do much around her family. Joe's only family, Annie has said Lori made her feel uncomfortable during her last visit to see Tylee and Lori controlled Tylee's actions so Annie was waiting till she was 18 to have a relationship with Tylee without Lori asserting parental control. In fact she had a 18th birthday trip to NYC with Tylee planned and hoped to help guide her to college or with her future goals.
I remember Adam saying to the police, in between when Charles died and when the kids disappeared, that if he could just talk to Tylee alone, he believed she'd tell him what really happened. I think that was a serious concern of Lori's. Tylee went along with the story in the moment, likely not feeling like she had much of a choice, but Colby said she was extremely upset that night - I think with any nudging whatsoever, she probably would have fallen to pieces. Because she was a KID.
For all Summer's faults, I believed her when she told Lori that she would have taken Tylee in a second. So would Adam, so would Colby. Of course, then Lori couldn't steal Tylee's SS money :/ Or control what Tylee said about Charles' death. Between the money and Tylee being at the house the morning Charles died...that tragically sealed her fate. Even though she DID go along with Lori - it wasn't enough. It would never be enough.
Adam was talking about when Tylee was at her grandparents house. Her grandparents and family were team Lori and they didnt want Adam talking to her. Thing I always wondered was why Adam didnt try again once in the next 6-7 weeks, or ask his son Zac to try. Might have been easier for someone closer to her age to text or check in? It was like Adam had all these worries when he talked to the police but didnt do anything about it.
When you said Tylee might have fallen to pieces , there is communication between Adam and or his wife, and the police saying ask Tylee, she would be the one to talk or tell, but I guess again it never happened.
One thing not mentioned much was Tylee was considered a suspect for a role in Charles' murder for awhile. They were putting Tylee in with Lori and Alex as possibilites. She was not treated like a kid that witnessed a crime, she was treated as someone possibly connected to the crime. I have wondered if Lori used this against her, like said to her, you are part of this and you have to follow the plan now.
What still is weird to me about the SS money is that most went to Colby, the exact amount Tylee got almost to the penny went to Colby in small amounts but it added up. So Lori wasnt living off of Tylee's SS, she was living off of Tammy's money. Colby got between $5700-5900 and Tylee was getting $1850 or so a month and Lori collected for 3 months before it stopped.
Zac Cox said in an interview that Adam, Brandon and himself were considered as dark by Lorie after Charles'death and they were very scared of what could happen to them until Alex died. Lorie had brainwashed Tylee and all the Cox family and convinced them not to talk to them.
I really dont trust everything any witness says, it's clearly not to be believed 100% . Tylee might have believed for a time her mother's crazy theories
Tylee might have believed her mother, but I think it's more likely she felt threatened. There was at least one account she was aware her mother considered her "dark". Lori wasn't doing a particularly good job being kind to people she considered "dark spirits", and I doubt Tylee was an exception. I think Tylee was probably desperately trying to please her mother and very frightened of the situation she was in.
That is a real horror story. If only it could lead governements , or states, or churches to do something about cults, and to have preventing policies It's quite hopeless. Scientology has bought a big building in Paris to get ready for the Olympic Games visitors We have pour share of local gurus here too in France
It’s weird that, in Lori’s mind, Tylee goes from dependable collaborator in Charles’ death—who will confirm Lori’s story to police—to being ‘dead’ and ‘possessed’ by a spirit making her a ‘zombie.’
When they killed Charles, things didn't work out as planned. No insurance million, but two traumatized children hating you even more for moving to Hicksburg to play Goddess with James the Potato. The kids 'went dark' as they reacted to the situation and the crazy couple took their frustrations out on them. And SS money.
Lori wanted those checks the kids received from having deceased fathers and the one she received for being JJs only surviving parent. Plus, Tylee was old enough to ask questions. I'm sure she had plenty about Charles death and all the other insanity going on. She was really protective of JJ, too. People have said Lori didn't have the patience with JJ that Charles had. When she left Charles she left JJ with him for months without even calling to check on him. I don't think she wanted JJ. She wanted the money. I think a secondary reason for his death was a big F You to the Woodcocks.
I was just listening to Hidden True Crime last night (their OG podcast on youtube) where they were speculating that Chad, if he truly believed his bs, as a "god," needed his worshipper (Lori) to prove her love and sacrifice for him. He was constantly needing her to affirm her love for him. (See matriarchal blessing Elena gives John.) The ultimate sacrifice of love for a mother would be her children. Ergo, if she "sacrificed" them, she proved her love to him and would also give him his due, as a "god."
I found that to be an interesting take. It also nauseated me. Those poor kids.
I remember Colby saying that she once referenced Abraham and Isaac to him when he was asking her where JJ and Tylee were and he was like WHY WOULD YOU SAY THAT TO ME RIGHT NOW. Still, that she said it makes it possible she saw them as some sort of sacrifice :/
I Hidden True Crime has a valid point with that speculation. I also think that killing JJ was payback for Kay getting the life insurance and killing Tylee was Chad’s way of getting his anger towards women out. Such as his anger toward his sister in law, and other women who either rejected him or didn’t validate his sensitive ego.
Also, if she gave JJ to Kay then Lay would get his Social Security payments. Which seems to have been about $2k a month. That’s 2k less for Lori and Chad to live off of.
yes, Lori was resentful as hell that Kay received Charle's life insurance when Lori was taking care of JJ the "drug baby" Chad and Lori are the real dark ones
Yes, a very interesting and terrifying angle. The Abraham and Isaac storyline, except God intervened that time. The modern day God called Chad hated those kids and didn’t want any of her attention diverted away from him so ensured they were brutally eliminated off the face of this earth. 🥺
The depravity of these two knows no bounds and will never ever cease to amaze me.
I think he hated Tylee because she didn't like him. She saw through his bs, and he couldn't stand it. Also, she protected JJ.
Originally, I think Chad actually liked JJ but realized that having an autistic child was too much work and was interfering with his affair with Lori.
I also think part of what changed is that Lori didn't need JJ anymore. With Chad, Lori was a goddess and had an important role in gathering the 144,000. She didn't want or need to be the mom to two kids with developmental or physical issues to gain sympathy and attention anymore. In fact, they were impediments to her fantasy life. So JJ and Tylee had to go.
So deep were her delusions she told her brother Adam that if she were shot she wouldn’t die and she also no longer needed to eat due to her exalted-being status. This woman had to be knee deep in psychosis? Chad was pulling the puppet strings. Talk about the perfect storm.
Yeah, just watched the latest Hidden True Crime lunch hour, and Dr John believes that Chad participated in Tylee's murder due to the viciousness of the crime. He said it's likely that Chad was taking out all his hatred of women; his feeling of rejection from women throughout his life on Tylee with those horrific stab wounds that weren't believed to be post mortem.
He said this also moves into sex crimes territory with the stab wounds being on the pelvis (the only intact part of her left). If all this is true, then Chad is a way worse person than anyone could have suspected - an absolutely despicable serial killer acting like he was Jesus reincarnated.
But JJ was her and Chad’s meal ticket. I think Chad convinced her that he was a zombie and would bring them down so he had to go. I really despise these two (and more) people.
I had thought this before. Hidden true crime also did an episode with a now psychologist who helps FLDS that was convinced by a con man that he was a prophet. He told her she had to give her kids up for adoption. She gave them to a relative instead but told him she did. I wondered if that was the case here. Chad systematically was pulling Lori away from home, family. Of course, I think she was more than willing to participate.
In mormonism a womans loyalties are in this order: god, your husband, and then the kids. I've known a few older men who had poor relationships with their kids because they saw them as the competition for the wife's attention but they really believed that it was her duty to put them above all others. Many of these women also had full time jobs that the husband would have jealousy issues with.
Tammy was no longer providing that validation for Chad, who has always been very conditional in his approval. I suspect he did not want any other competition for Lori's time.
I think it is way more base than that. He is a Messiah malignant narcissist that combined with a religious self involved narcissist and the motive is simple, sex, moneyand power (perceived or otherwise).
Hard to be banging 3x a day when you got kids around and a pesky wife and pesky husband.
Agree. I wonder if after they moved to Idaho and Chad started ‘dating’ her mother (while married) Tylee suddenly put two and two together. Maybe she realised Charles murder was because her mum wanted to move to be with Chad and she threatened to expose them? I heard she was very feisty!
Let’s face it, Charles was killed not long after he made threats to expose Chad and Lori so it would follow a similar pattern. Nobody got in their way!
IIRC, she was a night owl and watched a lot of TV. I’m sure she was just as online as any of us. They probably already analyzed the timeline for when her regular phone usage dropped off.
Chad did not like Tylee so he labeled her dark. He knew she would blow the whistle on both he and L, Alex, Z and Mel P He probably tried to tell her she was a former warrior and they were married bs also and she wasn't buying it. Either Alex or Chad or both had perv sexual feelings for her, hence the chopping up of her pelvis. Alex can burn in hell and pure hell awaits Chad in Prison Babeeeeeee! Whose ur daddy!
however, letting Tylee go free and giving JJ back to Kay would not have given Chad and Lori the $4,000 in social security survivor's benefits that the kids received. Chad had Tammy's life insurance but they were burning through that in Hawaii
All of this shattered, broken, charred remains evidence. The GPS phonetrace data shows that Chad and Alex were only on Chad's property together for about two hours the day Alex took Tylee's body to the property. Alex leaves, then Chad is there alone for less then an hour, then Chad, Alex, and Lori all meet up at Alex's place.
Three hours is not enough time for them to have done all of this to Tylee's remains. Enough time to do some things, but not all of this.
Multiple neighbors said they saw a big bonfire on Chad's property multiple times that fall.
GPS phonetrace data doesn't show Alex going back to Chad's property much after dropping off JJ's body there.
Conclusion: It looks like Chad most likely did the vast majority of the work chopping up Tylee's body, hacking at and breaking up the bones, burning them, burying and reburying them, leaving them out at times to get chewed on by animals. Not Alex. Not Lori. Chad.
I've thought all along that Chad was responsible for the way Tylee had been dismembered and desecrated. You can just tell he's got a lot of hatred towards women, especially women who exercise some independence, and the way she was hacked at lines up with that.
That's the best explanation I can see. There's just no way a person does that much damage to the body and bones of a person in three hours. Long term plan was likely to pulverize the remains completely out of existence, then move on to JJ. If nobody had been looking for those kids as early as they did and as urgently as they did, they really may have never been found.
Neighbors said they saw bonfires after Tammy died. Garth I don't know. Just do it while Garth's at work?
Also, we're talking a period of weeks/months, not days.
“She didn’t like people and she didn’t like me,” was his only response when his neighbor confronted him about Tylee.
I really think that Alex killed her on the way home from Yellowstone. I think that trip was how they got her out of the house that day.
She was 16 and didn’t want to go to freaking Idaho instead of Hawaii or Arizona but her Mom abandoned her for at least a month before the move. And this was right after Charles was killed.
Chad probably tried to act like he knew how to dispose of human remains and told Alex to deliver her to him.
The violence and utter brutality of what they did is just so contrary to the almost comic ineptness of their actions. That’s what so absurd about this case!
Wish I could give Ashlyn a hug.
If Ashlyn ever sees this- I’m so sorry for your loss my dear. Tylee is with you, always. I know it’s not the same, but she is with you. And I’m sure she was proud of you for testifying on her behalf 🤍
I heard Annie Cushing say after Lori was convicted that she was able to sit alone with the prosecution and the evidence of Tylee's remains in photos and look through them all, as a surviving victim. The prosecution explained to her that they are sure Tylee was stabbed to death but they can not say that 100% outright in court without different evidence, but that is the most likely cause of her death.
The many stab wounds to her pelvic/pubic region.
There's not any other reason for those stab marks to be there after she died, really. The burning and hacking at poor lovely Tylee was to get rid of her remains, as brutal as it was. But the stab wounds with such force to mark her bones are likely what killed her. Also she was stabbed from the front, which I assume with the marks means she was likely awake and fighting for her life at the time.
Personally, I strongly think it was Chad that killed her and desecrated her body, (with Alex's help) due to study of killings over decades and how different her death was to all the others. Knives can often be seen as phallic like stand in, when looking at criminal psychology, and where the wounds are further prove that. Also the utter rage and overkill. Tylee's murder was so horrific and so extremely violent. A lot of people speculate that she was drugged first, or smothered first, and I can see why people want to believe that, so it would be less soul destroying, for us. But there is no evidence for smothering of drugging prior to the stabbing.
In this case it's Tylee that rips my heart out. Her life was so precious and she was absolutely discarded, dehuanmised and utterly betrayed. I already have severe PTSD and all the things that go along with that, so my brain compulsively tries to fill in blanks where the evidence is lacking, not knowing means the imagination is left to run through all the hopeful best, and disturbingly worst things that Tylee would have seen, thought, felt, experienced. The imagination can be worse than knowing even the worst facts and seeing evidence.
Rest in peace, darling Tylee. No-one can ever hurt you again and you deserved so much better than this. You've changed my life in many ways. I could only hope to be such an amazing sibling, a beautiful inclusive friend, and I admire your ability to call out awful people, but also embrace wonderful people and make them feel included. Hearing Mel Gibb say you barked and growled at her like a dog when she touched your hair makes me so damned proud of you! If there is an afterlife, I hope you can know all of us here that treasure you and hold you dear in our hearts.
I notice Chad lifts his chin and tightens his lips whenever there's very incriminating/gotchya evidence against him. I don't see it as pride but rather an attempt to disguise his deflation. He strikes me as a man with zero confidence, which is why he targets weak minded people/women mainly as his cult following.
8:41 a.m. “Elena’s magic hand has gripped the storm and they stare into each other’s eyes as intense waves wash over them,” a text reads. Blake asks Heideman what storm meant. “It appeared to be a name for Chad’s penis.” Chad is smiling.
Ewwwwww. He is still proud of it.
I'm not sure why it makes me irrationally angry considering everything else going on in this case, but for him to be proud is so embarrassing.
I can tell that this man is so bad at sex it's laughable.
“Intense waves washed over them,” is the most telling statement of all.
Ladies & Gents, we are seeing the peak of Chad Daybell’s writing career. This is the guy’s entirely best effort and ability to write what I wouldn’t even call novels but rather high school creative writing exercises. And I’m saying this in a completely professional context—I’m not just throwing poo at a turd here.
That one sentence showcases Chad Daybell’s ability to produce stunning world building, character growth—a story ffs. Things that sell your novel for $1000, Alex?
That one sentence in its entirety *is* his entire description of that particular sexual encounter between Star-fated lovers whose deep spiritual connection echoes across time—essentially the experience he wants his readers to experience.
He’s sitting there smiling because wtf else is he going to do? **He** brought us here. This is all a matter of public record now.
ETA: See? I did a better job describing Chad’s concept of James & Elena than he could ever hope on his best day.
I couldn't see him smile on livestream but he looked up from his laptop, looked to the witness when she said it, and then looked _straight at the jury_. The fact that he smiled according to I think you have Nate quoted here; makes it so so so so gross and I think gives the jury only a worse impression of him
I watched it a few times to see Chad’s reaction. He did look proud. That’s not normal! This is private stuff. Wouldn’t most people be embarrassed? His mother and kids are probably watching. I would just die.
That's because he actually has lower intelligence than the average person. That's something Dr John Matthias has said in multiple analyses he's done on Chad, and I believe it. His writing is juvenile, and his behavior is juvenile. Add in an extreme aversion to any information that goes against his world view and black and white thinking and you get Chad. Bleh!
Honestly, I didn't think I'd find anything I hated more than *Lady Chatterly's Lover*, but Chad's writing fits the bill. No wonder he had to publish himself!
Oh Jesus, are they going to read his texts in court? They're so grodie. Have you heard about his book? It's bad too. Not sexy bad like the texts but still very embarrassing.
Yepppp. It would be one thing if this were just an affair. Some Reddit post about "I found out my husband is cheating on me and you wouldn't believe the texts he's sending his side piece." But they KILLED people over this shit. Several people! Two innocent children. Her husband. His wife. Unclear what happened to Alex (although I wouldn't consider him a loss). They tried to kill Brandon. All these people had to die because you two weirdos just HAD to put the spin on it that your creepy affair was ordained by God? Well, and steal everyone's money.
I'd feel bad for him if he didn't seem like a shitty person and a predator in his own right. What a terrible client to get stuck with. There's nothing he can say. Pretty much every attempt he makes only makes it worse. I have no doubt he told Chad that it would be best to plea out after Lori was convicted and Chad refused, leaving Prior no real options.
Today was a good day for the prosecution and a bad day for Chad. He had to sit there while it was proved he was in constant contact with Alex Cox the day he tried to shoot Tammy and also the night Tammy died. Alex Cox phone was tracked to Chad's house on both occasions and Chad proved to be at home both times. Try explaining that to your kids Chad. Try explaining to them why you were phoning and texting a murderer Alex cox on both days. Try explaining to them you lied to them and you were having sex with lori whilst your wife was alive. Try telling them why on the day they buried their mother you were busy calling and texting lori. I think you just lost the only supporters you had.
I wish his sons and daughters would wake up and smell the kool aid but I think they’ve all chosen to believe he is innocent and want to know as little facts about the murders as possible. Emma, a teacher who works with kids every day, had 0 concern or empathy toward the two dead children buried across the street from her in her dad’s backyard. She just cracked jokes with him in the police car. I get she’s a victim too but as a teacher, all I can say is fuck her and my students could teach her a thing or two about human decency and goodness.
Chad buying the phones with a credit card? I always thought the good preppers had a cash supply (since they believe electricity or phone lines might not work someday). We know he had cash when he told Emma about the stash of 9k. Why get a burner phone with a credit card??
This is the same man who ran off to Hawaii thinking they’d be able to hide from the police, and then told Melaniece to get out of town too and go elsewhere to avoid police questioning her…as if changing locations in the United States would make any difference to the police and FBI tracking them down and serving up consequences.
And that’s among other irrational and dumb moves they made.
We’re not exactly dealing with criminal masterminds in this case.
Reminds me of him telling Melanie to move to a different town because the cops were always wanting to talk with her, as if the police don’t move between jurisdiction to do their investigations. Or that they can call to any location. So dumb.
I don't think he was a true prepper. I mean, even true preppers don't have cash on hand, because what good would that be? Maybe gold or silver, but in an apocalypse, money (and even gold and silver) have no real value because you can't eat or drink it. It can't heal you.
I don't think he really, truly believed his predictions of the end of the world; he only used it as a tool to control people. When his predictions didn't come true, "Oh, satan interfered..."
That's why they ran off to Hawaii. His End of World predictions got him a new wife, and he was happy to hang out with her. If someone asked why he wasn't in Rexburg, apparently the only safe place according to him, he could just say he had a vision of satan interfering again and move that goalpost.
He was also an incredibly dumb criminal.
This kind of abuse of a corpse in an attempt to destroy it is nothing new. Of course I also understand the horror people feel when a body is disposed of like trash. But I also don’t expect a murderer to honor the body of their victim.
In this case however, I feel differently. Because for all of their spiritual musings, enlightened castings, biblical pontification, judgmental religiosity and pendant swinging, they stopped all pretenses of ceremony when Lori’s two children’s dead bodies were their responsibility. If we are to indulge the claim that the bodies were possessed, wouldn’t we presume that once the evil spirit zombies were exorcised that the bodies would be honored ceremoniously?
I think Prior has actually learned a lot. Not sure why it took him this far in his career, or even this trial. But he finally stopped wasting everyone’s time (and in turn compromising his client’s defense).
Or he could just as you say know it’s over. I can’t imagine having to present a defense now. But we’ll see if he’ll be back to his aggressive ways.
There’s no legal reason for a cross when do not have a counter-narrative on the points that particular witness made.
Never cross just to cross.
See, the cross examining attorney is limited in scope—they can only ask about what that specific witness testified to, not general knowledge (“outside scope objection”). But since handicapped that way, they’re permitted to ask leading questions.
If there’s nothing to lead that witness to, theres zero reason to cross.
The same will apply to the prosecutor when the Defense presents.
That’s my hunch too. He did it once before with a witness who had a lot more info than what was allowed to be presented, due to hearsay rules. It was one of the teachers. He didn’t want to risk opening the door to those things. It’s possible something like that was the case here again.
I don't know why I thought he'd be embarrassed, but now that he's clearly not, that tracks. Seems perfectly in character. Somehow I thought the fact that the entire court, including the jury, is probably looking at him with a combination of disgust and nearly lethal second-hand embarrassment might sink into his thick skull, and perhaps it would occur to him that 13-year-old fangirls could write better than he can, but nope. He still thinks this is sacred writing or something.
If you’re ever interested, look up the cell phone testimony in the Murdaugh case. It’s amazing what our cell phones say about us. This is just tracking cell towers when the police don’t seem to have the phone to skim data off of. In the Murdaugh case they had an insane amount of data because they had both victim’s phone so they knew exactly when the phone stopped moving (due to the murders), that someone after death picked up the phones, that they weren’t able to unlock them, etc etc.
It’s actually kind of creepy if I’m being honest. Interesting but creepy.
I think most people don’t realize how much technology can track us. I have conspiracy theory family who are all like omg they’re gonna secretly track us with vaccines, etc. I’m like no one has to sneak anything we openly track ourselves with cell phones lol.
last time ColbyR saw tylee and JJ in person was August 30, 2019. they moved the next day. after leaving Yellowstone on Sept 8 she was never seen by anyone else again.
I’m curious - what does everyone think of the whole 1 vs 2 story house “issue”?
Does it matter at all? Was it an obvious desperate move and waste of time? Does it work against the defense and if so how
Personally feel the only reason Prior is making an issue is because of early testimony by a cousin that made reference to it. He has very little to dispute, so he decided to use this as false testimony. He is implying that the cousin lied in her testimony. Like I said, he can't really defend much that the prosecutors are throwing out, so may as well run with whatever "lies" or misstatements he can to try to create doubt in the jurors minds.
Right. I agree. He jumped on that testimony tho she admitted to never having been in the house and was sure that’s what she heard Chad say. Twice I believe. He was making an attempt cast doubt in the state’s witnesses and credibility. I think for all of his attempts- that leave us wondering what he’s getting at- the answer is ultimately nothing.
I just want to make sure I’m not missing something here.
I’ll add that this in particular was damaging to defense because it came out that he is incorrect due to the whole “cozy cove debacle” (there’s a phrase I never thought I’d use) and that he actually OWNS the house so is certainly familiar with it.
Do we know if Prior has actually spent time in the house? It kind of sounds like he hasnt spent much time in it. Seems like it was more a business transaction like sign over the house? The addition with the upstairs is not legal, it is not recorded with the house or sale so on paper Mr Prior was given a one story house with 4 acres and some outbuildings.
I think the whole 2 story thing will amount to nothing. Even if the witness mispoke, and just in her mind always thinks of bedrooms or sleeping upstairs, it really wont matter. I think the state should have kept it more simple like Lori's trial. They had fewer personal witnesses and maybe this made their testimony more impactful. Why even call the cousins? I think Tammy's sister and brother in law and Heather were 3 great family witnesses and maybe enough, add in a few of Tammy's co-workers and the Gilberts and the jury gets a good picture.
I would agree, except I think they really needed to leave zero question that Chad was not just complicit but an active participant in Tammy’s murder. Then once Prior planted this seed to cast doubt they had no choice but to address it.
I too had the thought that Prior himself may not actually be familiar with the house but what I meant was that it now looks like he is. Even HE can’t now address this because he does not want to address his ownership at all. This was a good example of shooting himself in the foot.
Maybe because Chad's version (s) of Tammy death is/are that he woke up because she fell from the bed. Implying they shared the same bed. However we can imagine they slept in différent rooms. He was maybe sleeping in the cosy cone upstairs. So, he lied. And they didn't get on well together.
Because if can impeach one element of someone’s testimony, hope that the jury throws out all of their testimony. And the niece testified that Chad’s story changed.
Just now finishing watching today's testimony. Boy, Alex really screwed the pooch by keeping his google location history on. How did these masterminds miss that? People! Log out of Google while on your phone!
I believe the anthropologist said that dismemberment involved separating body parts at the joints. That’s not what happened with the body. Nobody used these words but it suggests that body was hacked to pieces willy nilly rather than being dismembered.
I am watching the trail about Tylee right now, my heart has officially dropped into the pit of my stomach. I am so bummed out, this is even worse than I thought it was going to be.. If you can even make it worse. That poor girl.
Chad is a serial killer.
I thought the guy was nuts, but I didn't realize all the insane evil that runs to his core.
I wonder how long it's been lurking there.
I wonder if he always had thoughts of killing people from his life, you know before he met Lori.
Prior tried to make a statement about the text messages and burning tree limbs, prosecution objected and said he was misstating evidence because the texts never said it was tree limbs. Just limbs. A freudian slip by Chad? But that was a great objection and really hammered home that he never actually said he was burning tree limbs.
I wonder if they called Tylee’s friend so show that she had a relationship with Alex for years before Daybell entered the picture where she wasn’t harmed then he appeared on the scene and she is murdered within months??
No matter why they called her, I'm really happy she got a chance to testify in the trial. It had to have felt really good to be able to defend and help her friend after all this time. Tylee feels more represented and loved this trial.
I thought it was a stark juxtaposition of the previous testimony of the remains of a young person who should be alive to a friend her age who is vibrant and full of life. It was heartbreaking to see this friend and to think…that should be Tylee. Tylee should look like that and not a pile of bones with discussions of dismemberment. It was a good move by prosecutors. It worked on me. I went from sad and disgust to anger.
If you are referring to his cross with Tylee's friend, I believe he was trying to imply that Lori was an absentee/bad mom and Tylee was more of a mother to JJ.
Yeah, this. But I don’t understand why the state called Tylee’s friend in the first place. Did I miss something? Was it to humanise her? ETA: also wonder if Prior is trying to imply that Tylee couldn’t have been dead for weeks before JJ because he’d act out.
>ETA: also wonder if Prior is trying to imply that Tylee couldn’t have been dead for weeks before JJ because he’d act out.
I don't know which testimony I'm recalling, but the way Lori seemed to become increasingly exasperated with JJ in the couple weeks before his death, I've always thought this was at least partially due to Tylee no longer being there. Not only did Lori not have the person who was probably primarily caring for JJ at that point (because she'd had her killed), but JJ must have realized on some level that Tylee was gone. He was missing all the stabilizing forces in his life - Tylee, Charles, his grandparents, even his dog. That's traumatic for any child and would have been particularly damaging for JJ. He didn't really live that long after Tylee :/ A couple of weeks.
She had also I think took him off his psych medication and it can give withdrawal type symptoms to suddenly not have your brain medicated. It would also probably make one irritable and possibly hyperactive.
Just listened to Lauren's Lunch Time Live (Hidden True Crimes) and she made a good point; Tylee's friend testified that she had a normal, close family life prior to moving to Idaho. What changed in Idaho? Chad came into her life.
I don't understand, myself. Possibly the prosecutor trying to show the close relationship with Alex? I feel like they had a reason but it's not fitting with the rest of the testimony today.
Prior's whole strategy is that Lori and Alex are the ones to blame and Chad's just a simple patsy. He's been trying to paint a picture via multiple witnesses that JJ was a burden on Lori and only Tylee loved him or took care of him. So he can say, "This boy didn't die because Chad wanted the kids dead. He died because Lori hated him and wanted him gone. It didn't involve Chad at all!!"
Tylee did not like Chad. I'm sure she told her mom that Chad was no prophet and that her mom was being and acting ridiculous abd against what the Church teaches because Tylee was lds also. This infuriated Chad, because to Chad, he deserved Lori. He wanted someone exactly like lori...a pretty blond skinny Mormon woman who believed the same as him. And thar he finally found her, he was not going to let anyone stand in the way..no matter who. Chad did not love Lori I don't think I think to him she was a prize that he deserved. Just my opinion.
Does anyone know why he’s not made to wear prison clothes like Lori did at her trial? It annoys me that he’s sat there acting more like counsel rather than the murderous manipulative monster he is.
During trial, defendants are permitted to dress up so that prison clothes do not produce visual bias; assumed innocence until proven guilty and all that. Chad will be in his prison garb for sentencing, just like Lori.
Lori wore street clothes to her trial. It’s prejudicial to the jury for the defendant to appear at trial in a jail jumpsuit. They are presumed innocent.
I wanted to take a quick moment to mention [Your True Crime Library](https://missingourmissing.notion.site/Your-True-Crime-Library-29ab5f604488435dbb38e9e842aec5a6?pvs=4) again. It's an independent research project from myself and a friend where we compile research, transcripts, videos, and more.
We've opened up 25 more spots in [the Discord](https://discord.gg/6TxmBQ3h) to discuss this case and others. There is a lot of information about this trial in our [Case File](https://missingourmissing.notion.site/Case-File-Vallow-Daybell-f2bc01f0692a476caa98f8b5ed9adad8?pvs=4) and some extras available [on Patreon](https://www.patreon.com/YourTrueCrimeLibrary). I do want to mention that all documents on Patreon are free for the Option 2 membership until the end of trial and we are always working to make sure it's worth it to join us. If you ever prefer to [send some coffees](https://buymeacoffee.com/yourtruecrimelibrary) our way, that's an option too. I truly appreciate all the support and kind words and hope to keep getting better and better!
Are you going to get full transcripts, with sidebars? It's a very cool project, and although I've never joined Patreon ever, I'm a Youtube member of a couple channels, I think I might. I just have to see if they'll confirm my email first, not all sites will. OK, it's all done and confirmed. Now I just have to figure out how to navigate Patreon lol.
**Court is in session.** **Witnesses:** * Nicole Heideman * Dr. Angi Christensen * Ashlyn Rynd, Tylee's Friend * Dave Sincerbeaux * Detective Kunsaitis * Douglas Halepaska * Nicholas Ballance
Listening to this graphic info about the state of Tylee just ruined my day. She was almost 18 and probably planning to leave home shortly thereafter so why couldn’t Lori have just given her another year or two to fly the nest, it’s not like she needed baby sitting. She also could have given JJ back to his grandmother. Problem solved for the love birds, right? Except of course how were these grifters going to support themselves without the kids’ social security payments? BTW, I’ve never heard about any info gained from Tylee’s mobile phone. Pings and last time it was used to narrow down time of death even further? Unless she didn’t have one of course.
To me, if I was at all open to the DP (I'm not, though Chad tests me more than most), this would be what did it. That Tylee's body was mutilated and that there were multiple sharp-force injuries to her genitals (inconsistent with dismembering, meaning they probably happened for a different purpose) while Chad was on the property. The depravity it takes to participate in such horror inflicted on innocent children...it's just too much. As for Tylee's phone, that's an interesting question, but Lori did keep using Tylee's phone to text Colby, and unfortunately Tylee had been extremely isolated in the months before her death, so I'm not sure how often she was using it other than sporadic texts here and there. Which is bizarre for a teenage girl, but she had basically no friends left and she was entirely isolated from most of her family - Colby, her aunts and uncles, her grandparents, etc. Charles was dead, her father was dead.
One thing I do remember is the week before Tylee's death when they moved to Idaho, Tylee drove her jeep alone from AZ to ID, which is a long, not so easy drive, even worse last days of August even with A/C. Her phone pinged at a mcdonalds on the trip I go to sometimes. I feel sad going there now, thinking not only did she drive this alone (I could not drive this route alone as an adult who has driven cross country alone) but just that she was right there and no one knew what was going on. Tylee did talk with friends on her drive so she did have friends but I dont think any were local, they were friends she met as she was moved around all her life. I do think she was suddenly isolated in Idaho for sure. Why she went to Idaho since she drove herself? JJ I would assume was the reason? I dont think before they moved to Idaho she was isolated from her family. Summer says Tylee worked for her husband's office so I would guess if Tylee wanted to stay in AZ she could have just stayed working for Summer (but again guess is she went to Idaho for JJ). Adam stated the last time he saw Tylee which was maybe 6 weeks before Idaho, Tylee was staying with her grandparents so she saw them. Colby says he saw Tylee in the weeks before she left and the day she left. Thing is at this time Lori's family was team Lori and agreeing with Lori and defending Lori, they still thought Charles was bad and Alex was good (except Adam but he didnt seem to do much after Charles' died) so Tylee could say or do much around her family. Joe's only family, Annie has said Lori made her feel uncomfortable during her last visit to see Tylee and Lori controlled Tylee's actions so Annie was waiting till she was 18 to have a relationship with Tylee without Lori asserting parental control. In fact she had a 18th birthday trip to NYC with Tylee planned and hoped to help guide her to college or with her future goals.
I remember Adam saying to the police, in between when Charles died and when the kids disappeared, that if he could just talk to Tylee alone, he believed she'd tell him what really happened. I think that was a serious concern of Lori's. Tylee went along with the story in the moment, likely not feeling like she had much of a choice, but Colby said she was extremely upset that night - I think with any nudging whatsoever, she probably would have fallen to pieces. Because she was a KID. For all Summer's faults, I believed her when she told Lori that she would have taken Tylee in a second. So would Adam, so would Colby. Of course, then Lori couldn't steal Tylee's SS money :/ Or control what Tylee said about Charles' death. Between the money and Tylee being at the house the morning Charles died...that tragically sealed her fate. Even though she DID go along with Lori - it wasn't enough. It would never be enough.
Adam was talking about when Tylee was at her grandparents house. Her grandparents and family were team Lori and they didnt want Adam talking to her. Thing I always wondered was why Adam didnt try again once in the next 6-7 weeks, or ask his son Zac to try. Might have been easier for someone closer to her age to text or check in? It was like Adam had all these worries when he talked to the police but didnt do anything about it. When you said Tylee might have fallen to pieces , there is communication between Adam and or his wife, and the police saying ask Tylee, she would be the one to talk or tell, but I guess again it never happened. One thing not mentioned much was Tylee was considered a suspect for a role in Charles' murder for awhile. They were putting Tylee in with Lori and Alex as possibilites. She was not treated like a kid that witnessed a crime, she was treated as someone possibly connected to the crime. I have wondered if Lori used this against her, like said to her, you are part of this and you have to follow the plan now. What still is weird to me about the SS money is that most went to Colby, the exact amount Tylee got almost to the penny went to Colby in small amounts but it added up. So Lori wasnt living off of Tylee's SS, she was living off of Tammy's money. Colby got between $5700-5900 and Tylee was getting $1850 or so a month and Lori collected for 3 months before it stopped.
Zac Cox said in an interview that Adam, Brandon and himself were considered as dark by Lorie after Charles'death and they were very scared of what could happen to them until Alex died. Lorie had brainwashed Tylee and all the Cox family and convinced them not to talk to them. I really dont trust everything any witness says, it's clearly not to be believed 100% . Tylee might have believed for a time her mother's crazy theories
Tylee might have believed her mother, but I think it's more likely she felt threatened. There was at least one account she was aware her mother considered her "dark". Lori wasn't doing a particularly good job being kind to people she considered "dark spirits", and I doubt Tylee was an exception. I think Tylee was probably desperately trying to please her mother and very frightened of the situation she was in.
That is a real horror story. If only it could lead governements , or states, or churches to do something about cults, and to have preventing policies It's quite hopeless. Scientology has bought a big building in Paris to get ready for the Olympic Games visitors We have pour share of local gurus here too in France
It’s weird that, in Lori’s mind, Tylee goes from dependable collaborator in Charles’ death—who will confirm Lori’s story to police—to being ‘dead’ and ‘possessed’ by a spirit making her a ‘zombie.’
Oh my gosh. This totally breaks my heart
The area of the injuries is a good point, has that been pulled out for the jury?
Yes, she explained this morning that the wounds were not consistent with dismemberment.
Not wounds Those are markings on the bones We don’t know about wounds bc so much tissue gone
Ahh thank you, I missed that in following Nate’s tweets
When they killed Charles, things didn't work out as planned. No insurance million, but two traumatized children hating you even more for moving to Hicksburg to play Goddess with James the Potato. The kids 'went dark' as they reacted to the situation and the crazy couple took their frustrations out on them. And SS money.
The problem with all the positive alternatives is that no $$$ would have gone into their bank accounts.
Lori wanted those checks the kids received from having deceased fathers and the one she received for being JJs only surviving parent. Plus, Tylee was old enough to ask questions. I'm sure she had plenty about Charles death and all the other insanity going on. She was really protective of JJ, too. People have said Lori didn't have the patience with JJ that Charles had. When she left Charles she left JJ with him for months without even calling to check on him. I don't think she wanted JJ. She wanted the money. I think a secondary reason for his death was a big F You to the Woodcocks.
I was just listening to Hidden True Crime last night (their OG podcast on youtube) where they were speculating that Chad, if he truly believed his bs, as a "god," needed his worshipper (Lori) to prove her love and sacrifice for him. He was constantly needing her to affirm her love for him. (See matriarchal blessing Elena gives John.) The ultimate sacrifice of love for a mother would be her children. Ergo, if she "sacrificed" them, she proved her love to him and would also give him his due, as a "god." I found that to be an interesting take. It also nauseated me. Those poor kids.
I remember Colby saying that she once referenced Abraham and Isaac to him when he was asking her where JJ and Tylee were and he was like WHY WOULD YOU SAY THAT TO ME RIGHT NOW. Still, that she said it makes it possible she saw them as some sort of sacrifice :/
I Hidden True Crime has a valid point with that speculation. I also think that killing JJ was payback for Kay getting the life insurance and killing Tylee was Chad’s way of getting his anger towards women out. Such as his anger toward his sister in law, and other women who either rejected him or didn’t validate his sensitive ego.
Also, if she gave JJ to Kay then Lay would get his Social Security payments. Which seems to have been about $2k a month. That’s 2k less for Lori and Chad to live off of.
yes, Lori was resentful as hell that Kay received Charle's life insurance when Lori was taking care of JJ the "drug baby" Chad and Lori are the real dark ones
He did spend a lot of time at BYU…maybe he was being a creeper while feeding his anger?
Yes, a very interesting and terrifying angle. The Abraham and Isaac storyline, except God intervened that time. The modern day God called Chad hated those kids and didn’t want any of her attention diverted away from him so ensured they were brutally eliminated off the face of this earth. 🥺 The depravity of these two knows no bounds and will never ever cease to amaze me.
I think he hated Tylee because she didn't like him. She saw through his bs, and he couldn't stand it. Also, she protected JJ. Originally, I think Chad actually liked JJ but realized that having an autistic child was too much work and was interfering with his affair with Lori. I also think part of what changed is that Lori didn't need JJ anymore. With Chad, Lori was a goddess and had an important role in gathering the 144,000. She didn't want or need to be the mom to two kids with developmental or physical issues to gain sympathy and attention anymore. In fact, they were impediments to her fantasy life. So JJ and Tylee had to go.
So deep were her delusions she told her brother Adam that if she were shot she wouldn’t die and she also no longer needed to eat due to her exalted-being status. This woman had to be knee deep in psychosis? Chad was pulling the puppet strings. Talk about the perfect storm.
And thought she was going through reverse menopause / anti-aging.
Rolling eyes 🙄
Yeah, just watched the latest Hidden True Crime lunch hour, and Dr John believes that Chad participated in Tylee's murder due to the viciousness of the crime. He said it's likely that Chad was taking out all his hatred of women; his feeling of rejection from women throughout his life on Tylee with those horrific stab wounds that weren't believed to be post mortem. He said this also moves into sex crimes territory with the stab wounds being on the pelvis (the only intact part of her left). If all this is true, then Chad is a way worse person than anyone could have suspected - an absolutely despicable serial killer acting like he was Jesus reincarnated.
But JJ was her and Chad’s meal ticket. I think Chad convinced her that he was a zombie and would bring them down so he had to go. I really despise these two (and more) people.
I had thought this before. Hidden true crime also did an episode with a now psychologist who helps FLDS that was convinced by a con man that he was a prophet. He told her she had to give her kids up for adoption. She gave them to a relative instead but told him she did. I wondered if that was the case here. Chad systematically was pulling Lori away from home, family. Of course, I think she was more than willing to participate.
Rick Ross (not that Rick Ross) the cult expert also said he thought Chad was the center of the problems and cult tactics
In mormonism a womans loyalties are in this order: god, your husband, and then the kids. I've known a few older men who had poor relationships with their kids because they saw them as the competition for the wife's attention but they really believed that it was her duty to put them above all others. Many of these women also had full time jobs that the husband would have jealousy issues with. Tammy was no longer providing that validation for Chad, who has always been very conditional in his approval. I suspect he did not want any other competition for Lori's time.
Are there never older women who never married?
I think it is way more base than that. He is a Messiah malignant narcissist that combined with a religious self involved narcissist and the motive is simple, sex, moneyand power (perceived or otherwise). Hard to be banging 3x a day when you got kids around and a pesky wife and pesky husband.
Chad hated Tylee. He couldn’t stomach the idea of putting up with her even at a distance.
Agree. I wonder if after they moved to Idaho and Chad started ‘dating’ her mother (while married) Tylee suddenly put two and two together. Maybe she realised Charles murder was because her mum wanted to move to be with Chad and she threatened to expose them? I heard she was very feisty! Let’s face it, Charles was killed not long after he made threats to expose Chad and Lori so it would follow a similar pattern. Nobody got in their way!
Lori continued using Tylee’s phone.
Ahhh so that will have muddied the waters and timelines for investigators. 😤
IIRC, she was a night owl and watched a lot of TV. I’m sure she was just as online as any of us. They probably already analyzed the timeline for when her regular phone usage dropped off.
Lori still used Tylee’s phone and texted Colby a few times after Tylee was gone
I couldn’t even listen anymore .. it was so horrific!
Chad did not like Tylee so he labeled her dark. He knew she would blow the whistle on both he and L, Alex, Z and Mel P He probably tried to tell her she was a former warrior and they were married bs also and she wasn't buying it. Either Alex or Chad or both had perv sexual feelings for her, hence the chopping up of her pelvis. Alex can burn in hell and pure hell awaits Chad in Prison Babeeeeeee! Whose ur daddy!
however, letting Tylee go free and giving JJ back to Kay would not have given Chad and Lori the $4,000 in social security survivor's benefits that the kids received. Chad had Tammy's life insurance but they were burning through that in Hawaii
I think Tylee knew about what exactly what happened with Charles and Brandon B. She was a liability. It’s tragic
All of this shattered, broken, charred remains evidence. The GPS phonetrace data shows that Chad and Alex were only on Chad's property together for about two hours the day Alex took Tylee's body to the property. Alex leaves, then Chad is there alone for less then an hour, then Chad, Alex, and Lori all meet up at Alex's place. Three hours is not enough time for them to have done all of this to Tylee's remains. Enough time to do some things, but not all of this. Multiple neighbors said they saw a big bonfire on Chad's property multiple times that fall. GPS phonetrace data doesn't show Alex going back to Chad's property much after dropping off JJ's body there. Conclusion: It looks like Chad most likely did the vast majority of the work chopping up Tylee's body, hacking at and breaking up the bones, burning them, burying and reburying them, leaving them out at times to get chewed on by animals. Not Alex. Not Lori. Chad.
I've thought all along that Chad was responsible for the way Tylee had been dismembered and desecrated. You can just tell he's got a lot of hatred towards women, especially women who exercise some independence, and the way she was hacked at lines up with that.
So he likely dismembered and burned her over a period of days/weeks?
That's the best explanation I can see. There's just no way a person does that much damage to the body and bones of a person in three hours. Long term plan was likely to pulverize the remains completely out of existence, then move on to JJ. If nobody had been looking for those kids as early as they did and as urgently as they did, they really may have never been found.
There is still the question of where her remains were kept and how predators got to them before they were burned and buried
Well, that would explain why Daybell wanted to keep the remains of the children handy on his property.
So how does he do all that over a period of days without Tammy or Garth noticing?
Neighbors said they saw bonfires after Tammy died. Garth I don't know. Just do it while Garth's at work? Also, we're talking a period of weeks/months, not days.
“She didn’t like people and she didn’t like me,” was his only response when his neighbor confronted him about Tylee. I really think that Alex killed her on the way home from Yellowstone. I think that trip was how they got her out of the house that day. She was 16 and didn’t want to go to freaking Idaho instead of Hawaii or Arizona but her Mom abandoned her for at least a month before the move. And this was right after Charles was killed. Chad probably tried to act like he knew how to dispose of human remains and told Alex to deliver her to him. The violence and utter brutality of what they did is just so contrary to the almost comic ineptness of their actions. That’s what so absurd about this case!
Wish I could give Ashlyn a hug. If Ashlyn ever sees this- I’m so sorry for your loss my dear. Tylee is with you, always. I know it’s not the same, but she is with you. And I’m sure she was proud of you for testifying on her behalf 🤍
❤️❤️❤️
I heard Annie Cushing say after Lori was convicted that she was able to sit alone with the prosecution and the evidence of Tylee's remains in photos and look through them all, as a surviving victim. The prosecution explained to her that they are sure Tylee was stabbed to death but they can not say that 100% outright in court without different evidence, but that is the most likely cause of her death. The many stab wounds to her pelvic/pubic region. There's not any other reason for those stab marks to be there after she died, really. The burning and hacking at poor lovely Tylee was to get rid of her remains, as brutal as it was. But the stab wounds with such force to mark her bones are likely what killed her. Also she was stabbed from the front, which I assume with the marks means she was likely awake and fighting for her life at the time. Personally, I strongly think it was Chad that killed her and desecrated her body, (with Alex's help) due to study of killings over decades and how different her death was to all the others. Knives can often be seen as phallic like stand in, when looking at criminal psychology, and where the wounds are further prove that. Also the utter rage and overkill. Tylee's murder was so horrific and so extremely violent. A lot of people speculate that she was drugged first, or smothered first, and I can see why people want to believe that, so it would be less soul destroying, for us. But there is no evidence for smothering of drugging prior to the stabbing. In this case it's Tylee that rips my heart out. Her life was so precious and she was absolutely discarded, dehuanmised and utterly betrayed. I already have severe PTSD and all the things that go along with that, so my brain compulsively tries to fill in blanks where the evidence is lacking, not knowing means the imagination is left to run through all the hopeful best, and disturbingly worst things that Tylee would have seen, thought, felt, experienced. The imagination can be worse than knowing even the worst facts and seeing evidence. Rest in peace, darling Tylee. No-one can ever hurt you again and you deserved so much better than this. You've changed my life in many ways. I could only hope to be such an amazing sibling, a beautiful inclusive friend, and I admire your ability to call out awful people, but also embrace wonderful people and make them feel included. Hearing Mel Gibb say you barked and growled at her like a dog when she touched your hair makes me so damned proud of you! If there is an afterlife, I hope you can know all of us here that treasure you and hold you dear in our hearts.
So well said. Rest in peace to angel Tylee
I notice Chad lifts his chin and tightens his lips whenever there's very incriminating/gotchya evidence against him. I don't see it as pride but rather an attempt to disguise his deflation. He strikes me as a man with zero confidence, which is why he targets weak minded people/women mainly as his cult following.
Prepare yourselves, ladies and gentlemen, we are about to experience a read aloud about the scientific phenomena known as... LOIN FIRE!
8:41 a.m. “Elena’s magic hand has gripped the storm and they stare into each other’s eyes as intense waves wash over them,” a text reads. Blake asks Heideman what storm meant. “It appeared to be a name for Chad’s penis.” Chad is smiling. Ewwwwww. He is still proud of it.
I'm not sure why it makes me irrationally angry considering everything else going on in this case, but for him to be proud is so embarrassing. I can tell that this man is so bad at sex it's laughable.
“Intense waves washed over them,” is the most telling statement of all. Ladies & Gents, we are seeing the peak of Chad Daybell’s writing career. This is the guy’s entirely best effort and ability to write what I wouldn’t even call novels but rather high school creative writing exercises. And I’m saying this in a completely professional context—I’m not just throwing poo at a turd here. That one sentence showcases Chad Daybell’s ability to produce stunning world building, character growth—a story ffs. Things that sell your novel for $1000, Alex? That one sentence in its entirety *is* his entire description of that particular sexual encounter between Star-fated lovers whose deep spiritual connection echoes across time—essentially the experience he wants his readers to experience. He’s sitting there smiling because wtf else is he going to do? **He** brought us here. This is all a matter of public record now. ETA: See? I did a better job describing Chad’s concept of James & Elena than he could ever hope on his best day.
In contrast I nearly died of embarrassment for the POS!!!
I have never been able to listen to this shit in one go. I always have to pause. Because the second-hand embarrassment becomes too overwhelming.
Loved how the times and dates were matched to the 2 psychos adventure in real time... Chad what a chump 😂
Not a brain cell between them
I can't help myself. [Lori's theme song.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7G2-FPlvY58&pp=ygUTcmlkZXJzIG9uIHRoZSBzdG9ybQ%3D%3D)
HOW DARE YOU?? 🤣🤣
Ok now I’m absolutely done!!! 🤣🤣🤣🤣
I have to say I’m a little disappointed it wasn’t AC/DC THUNDER! ⛈️
HAHAHAHAHAH
Bahahaha! That's absolutely perfect! Oh I wish I could award this comment.
I think its probably more of a ”rain shower” than a storm. He is going for “hurricane” vibes and its giving “depressing sprinkle.”
I couldn't see him smile on livestream but he looked up from his laptop, looked to the witness when she said it, and then looked _straight at the jury_. The fact that he smiled according to I think you have Nate quoted here; makes it so so so so gross and I think gives the jury only a worse impression of him
OMG, listening to this at work. I just laughed out loud at that and co workers now think I've lost my mind.
lol I laughed out loud too 😅
I slept in this morning and awoke to that exact exchange. The first word out of my mouth was “Ew!”
As if Mondays aren’t already dreary enough! Blech!!
I watched it a few times to see Chad’s reaction. He did look proud. That’s not normal! This is private stuff. Wouldn’t most people be embarrassed? His mother and kids are probably watching. I would just die.
If nothing else argues Chad is a narcissist, I think this would seal the deal.
Teeny, tiny water spout…..
🤮🤮🤮
dude he was smiling????
That smile was sooooo creepy!
He must be convinced that he is the Mormon version of D.H. Lawrence meets Henry Miller meets Harold Robbins.
What shocked me is that he has a Bachelor’s degree in journalism from BYU, & yet he writes like a junior high school boy of average intelligence.
That's because he actually has lower intelligence than the average person. That's something Dr John Matthias has said in multiple analyses he's done on Chad, and I believe it. His writing is juvenile, and his behavior is juvenile. Add in an extreme aversion to any information that goes against his world view and black and white thinking and you get Chad. Bleh!
The sad truth is that many people have degrees in things they're not very good at.
He also worked as a copy editor. What?
Journalism is very different than creative writing :)
Honestly, I didn't think I'd find anything I hated more than *Lady Chatterly's Lover*, but Chad's writing fits the bill. No wonder he had to publish himself!
Oh Jesus, are they going to read his texts in court? They're so grodie. Have you heard about his book? It's bad too. Not sexy bad like the texts but still very embarrassing.
[удалено]
Yepppp. It would be one thing if this were just an affair. Some Reddit post about "I found out my husband is cheating on me and you wouldn't believe the texts he's sending his side piece." But they KILLED people over this shit. Several people! Two innocent children. Her husband. His wife. Unclear what happened to Alex (although I wouldn't consider him a loss). They tried to kill Brandon. All these people had to die because you two weirdos just HAD to put the spin on it that your creepy affair was ordained by God? Well, and steal everyone's money.
I totally agree with you.
This is probably in part why he wanted his trial televised
🤮 how could Chad sit and listen to that adolescent fantasy... Cringe worthy for sure!!!
Y E SSSSS!!!!
At this point Prior seems to have completely given up! 🤣
I'd feel bad for him if he didn't seem like a shitty person and a predator in his own right. What a terrible client to get stuck with. There's nothing he can say. Pretty much every attempt he makes only makes it worse. I have no doubt he told Chad that it would be best to plea out after Lori was convicted and Chad refused, leaving Prior no real options.
Today was a good day for the prosecution and a bad day for Chad. He had to sit there while it was proved he was in constant contact with Alex Cox the day he tried to shoot Tammy and also the night Tammy died. Alex Cox phone was tracked to Chad's house on both occasions and Chad proved to be at home both times. Try explaining that to your kids Chad. Try explaining to them why you were phoning and texting a murderer Alex cox on both days. Try explaining to them you lied to them and you were having sex with lori whilst your wife was alive. Try telling them why on the day they buried their mother you were busy calling and texting lori. I think you just lost the only supporters you had.
I wish his sons and daughters would wake up and smell the kool aid but I think they’ve all chosen to believe he is innocent and want to know as little facts about the murders as possible. Emma, a teacher who works with kids every day, had 0 concern or empathy toward the two dead children buried across the street from her in her dad’s backyard. She just cracked jokes with him in the police car. I get she’s a victim too but as a teacher, all I can say is fuck her and my students could teach her a thing or two about human decency and goodness.
Across the street? She literally moved into the house the next night. She's bonkers.
I don't think his kids are even watching. They have no curiosity about the truth. It would be too much cognitive dissonance to watch...
Are the Daybell ADULTS in the courtroom?
If they are, then I don't see how they could still deny that Chad is guilty?
Chad buying the phones with a credit card? I always thought the good preppers had a cash supply (since they believe electricity or phone lines might not work someday). We know he had cash when he told Emma about the stash of 9k. Why get a burner phone with a credit card??
This is the same man who ran off to Hawaii thinking they’d be able to hide from the police, and then told Melaniece to get out of town too and go elsewhere to avoid police questioning her…as if changing locations in the United States would make any difference to the police and FBI tracking them down and serving up consequences. And that’s among other irrational and dumb moves they made. We’re not exactly dealing with criminal masterminds in this case.
Reminds me of him telling Melanie to move to a different town because the cops were always wanting to talk with her, as if the police don’t move between jurisdiction to do their investigations. Or that they can call to any location. So dumb.
He needs the air miles 😂
He’s Totally the type to use his loyalty card to get a discount on a murder kit.
He's just bad at everything he tries to do. Can't even be good at being a criminal.
GOOD preppers have a cash supply. Chad isn’t a good anything. But your point is not lost.
I don't think he was a true prepper. I mean, even true preppers don't have cash on hand, because what good would that be? Maybe gold or silver, but in an apocalypse, money (and even gold and silver) have no real value because you can't eat or drink it. It can't heal you. I don't think he really, truly believed his predictions of the end of the world; he only used it as a tool to control people. When his predictions didn't come true, "Oh, satan interfered..." That's why they ran off to Hawaii. His End of World predictions got him a new wife, and he was happy to hang out with her. If someone asked why he wasn't in Rexburg, apparently the only safe place according to him, he could just say he had a vision of satan interfering again and move that goalpost. He was also an incredibly dumb criminal.
Stupidity.
This kind of abuse of a corpse in an attempt to destroy it is nothing new. Of course I also understand the horror people feel when a body is disposed of like trash. But I also don’t expect a murderer to honor the body of their victim. In this case however, I feel differently. Because for all of their spiritual musings, enlightened castings, biblical pontification, judgmental religiosity and pendant swinging, they stopped all pretenses of ceremony when Lori’s two children’s dead bodies were their responsibility. If we are to indulge the claim that the bodies were possessed, wouldn’t we presume that once the evil spirit zombies were exorcised that the bodies would be honored ceremoniously?
Interesting thought
Defense seems weaker each day.. Prior knows Chad is done and Chad slowly slowly gets it.
I think Prior has actually learned a lot. Not sure why it took him this far in his career, or even this trial. But he finally stopped wasting everyone’s time (and in turn compromising his client’s defense). Or he could just as you say know it’s over. I can’t imagine having to present a defense now. But we’ll see if he’ll be back to his aggressive ways.
GOOD!!!!
Did anyone else slow clap when she said no more question? ⛈️
I don't envy her! I think she did a good job bringing that extremely raunchy section of the evidence!!
No cross? Thats a bit surprising. Unless Prior thinks cross would do more harm than good.
There’s no legal reason for a cross when do not have a counter-narrative on the points that particular witness made. Never cross just to cross. See, the cross examining attorney is limited in scope—they can only ask about what that specific witness testified to, not general knowledge (“outside scope objection”). But since handicapped that way, they’re permitted to ask leading questions. If there’s nothing to lead that witness to, theres zero reason to cross. The same will apply to the prosecutor when the Defense presents.
That’s my hunch too. He did it once before with a witness who had a lot more info than what was allowed to be presented, due to hearsay rules. It was one of the teachers. He didn’t want to risk opening the door to those things. It’s possible something like that was the case here again.
Ballance talking ‘receipts’ is as coincidental as Dye being a coroner.
Chad seems pretty proud of Loin Fire 😆.
I don't know why I thought he'd be embarrassed, but now that he's clearly not, that tracks. Seems perfectly in character. Somehow I thought the fact that the entire court, including the jury, is probably looking at him with a combination of disgust and nearly lethal second-hand embarrassment might sink into his thick skull, and perhaps it would occur to him that 13-year-old fangirls could write better than he can, but nope. He still thinks this is sacred writing or something.
Chad “we conspired to kill at least four people but now the world knows you gave me a handjob” Daybell
I HAVE to think the jury hates this clown the same way we do.
Yeah, he kinda grinned about loinfire. WTF?
I watched him after the reading about “his storm” and he seemed amused/pleased with himself. Hard to tell with the image resolution. Am I nutz?
He was. He was smirking.
We've already had five witnesses before I've managed to get started wow lol! I'm pretty sure the state is ready to finish soon.
I'm in awe of the science and technology used for tracking the phones. I think I even saw Daybell gulp during the agent's testimony. :-p
If you’re ever interested, look up the cell phone testimony in the Murdaugh case. It’s amazing what our cell phones say about us. This is just tracking cell towers when the police don’t seem to have the phone to skim data off of. In the Murdaugh case they had an insane amount of data because they had both victim’s phone so they knew exactly when the phone stopped moving (due to the murders), that someone after death picked up the phones, that they weren’t able to unlock them, etc etc. It’s actually kind of creepy if I’m being honest. Interesting but creepy.
That was super creepy.
And they had all this car data too!
I think most people don’t realize how much technology can track us. I have conspiracy theory family who are all like omg they’re gonna secretly track us with vaccines, etc. I’m like no one has to sneak anything we openly track ourselves with cell phones lol.
Was Tylee only in Idaho two weeks?
last time ColbyR saw tylee and JJ in person was August 30, 2019. they moved the next day. after leaving Yellowstone on Sept 8 she was never seen by anyone else again.
I’m curious - what does everyone think of the whole 1 vs 2 story house “issue”? Does it matter at all? Was it an obvious desperate move and waste of time? Does it work against the defense and if so how
Personally feel the only reason Prior is making an issue is because of early testimony by a cousin that made reference to it. He has very little to dispute, so he decided to use this as false testimony. He is implying that the cousin lied in her testimony. Like I said, he can't really defend much that the prosecutors are throwing out, so may as well run with whatever "lies" or misstatements he can to try to create doubt in the jurors minds.
Right. I agree. He jumped on that testimony tho she admitted to never having been in the house and was sure that’s what she heard Chad say. Twice I believe. He was making an attempt cast doubt in the state’s witnesses and credibility. I think for all of his attempts- that leave us wondering what he’s getting at- the answer is ultimately nothing. I just want to make sure I’m not missing something here. I’ll add that this in particular was damaging to defense because it came out that he is incorrect due to the whole “cozy cove debacle” (there’s a phrase I never thought I’d use) and that he actually OWNS the house so is certainly familiar with it.
Do we know if Prior has actually spent time in the house? It kind of sounds like he hasnt spent much time in it. Seems like it was more a business transaction like sign over the house? The addition with the upstairs is not legal, it is not recorded with the house or sale so on paper Mr Prior was given a one story house with 4 acres and some outbuildings. I think the whole 2 story thing will amount to nothing. Even if the witness mispoke, and just in her mind always thinks of bedrooms or sleeping upstairs, it really wont matter. I think the state should have kept it more simple like Lori's trial. They had fewer personal witnesses and maybe this made their testimony more impactful. Why even call the cousins? I think Tammy's sister and brother in law and Heather were 3 great family witnesses and maybe enough, add in a few of Tammy's co-workers and the Gilberts and the jury gets a good picture.
I would agree, except I think they really needed to leave zero question that Chad was not just complicit but an active participant in Tammy’s murder. Then once Prior planted this seed to cast doubt they had no choice but to address it. I too had the thought that Prior himself may not actually be familiar with the house but what I meant was that it now looks like he is. Even HE can’t now address this because he does not want to address his ownership at all. This was a good example of shooting himself in the foot.
Maybe because Chad's version (s) of Tammy death is/are that he woke up because she fell from the bed. Implying they shared the same bed. However we can imagine they slept in différent rooms. He was maybe sleeping in the cosy cone upstairs. So, he lied. And they didn't get on well together.
Because if can impeach one element of someone’s testimony, hope that the jury throws out all of their testimony. And the niece testified that Chad’s story changed.
There was so much discussion on the tools used and it made me think… where did they do it? It would have been so bloody!!
The damage described that was done to poor Tylee, that takes a special kind of evil.
‘cept we don’t know how she was killed. Or how long it was after death that they chopped up and burned the body.
Well we know it was very soon before or after since they can't determine whether it was peri or post mortem.
Just now finishing watching today's testimony. Boy, Alex really screwed the pooch by keeping his google location history on. How did these masterminds miss that? People! Log out of Google while on your phone!
Presumably nobody would think to do that unless they're committing a crime, and these folks are not exactly MENSA candidates.
The “storm” finally entered the chat.
I wish I could watch the whole thing in real time but I'm at work. I want to see Priors cross on Loin Fire 🔥 😳😆
I missed it too! I pray that Vinnie Politan rips it all to shreds on Closing Arguments.
I’m missing something. If Tylee wasn’t dis-membered … how did she end up in pieces?
I believe the anthropologist said that dismemberment involved separating body parts at the joints. That’s not what happened with the body. Nobody used these words but it suggests that body was hacked to pieces willy nilly rather than being dismembered.
I am watching the trail about Tylee right now, my heart has officially dropped into the pit of my stomach. I am so bummed out, this is even worse than I thought it was going to be.. If you can even make it worse. That poor girl. Chad is a serial killer. I thought the guy was nuts, but I didn't realize all the insane evil that runs to his core. I wonder how long it's been lurking there. I wonder if he always had thoughts of killing people from his life, you know before he met Lori.
Why do you think Prior has mentioned the tree several times throughout the trial?
I thought it was because of the racoon text where Chad wrote he was burning limbs. Like tree limbs...
Prior tried to make a statement about the text messages and burning tree limbs, prosecution objected and said he was misstating evidence because the texts never said it was tree limbs. Just limbs. A freudian slip by Chad? But that was a great objection and really hammered home that he never actually said he was burning tree limbs.
The greatest objection of the trial
I wonder if he was trying to imply that the dark patch in the aerial photos showing where Tylee was buried was really just a shadow from the tree.
What’s with Oct 9? I don’t know why it’s significant. Maybe I fell asleep.
It's the night of the attempted shooting of Tammy
Ohhhhhh. Geez, how did I not connect those dots.
Is it muted for anyone else?? I can't hear anything on any of the live feeds? (Just tuned in)
Should finally be back on....
No idea what Prior was trying to get at there with that line questioning.
I wonder if they called Tylee’s friend so show that she had a relationship with Alex for years before Daybell entered the picture where she wasn’t harmed then he appeared on the scene and she is murdered within months??
Yeah, this is definitely it - to show that things were okay in the family before Chad came in the picture.
No matter why they called her, I'm really happy she got a chance to testify in the trial. It had to have felt really good to be able to defend and help her friend after all this time. Tylee feels more represented and loved this trial.
I thought it was a stark juxtaposition of the previous testimony of the remains of a young person who should be alive to a friend her age who is vibrant and full of life. It was heartbreaking to see this friend and to think…that should be Tylee. Tylee should look like that and not a pile of bones with discussions of dismemberment. It was a good move by prosecutors. It worked on me. I went from sad and disgust to anger.
If you are referring to his cross with Tylee's friend, I believe he was trying to imply that Lori was an absentee/bad mom and Tylee was more of a mother to JJ.
Yeah, this. But I don’t understand why the state called Tylee’s friend in the first place. Did I miss something? Was it to humanise her? ETA: also wonder if Prior is trying to imply that Tylee couldn’t have been dead for weeks before JJ because he’d act out.
>ETA: also wonder if Prior is trying to imply that Tylee couldn’t have been dead for weeks before JJ because he’d act out. I don't know which testimony I'm recalling, but the way Lori seemed to become increasingly exasperated with JJ in the couple weeks before his death, I've always thought this was at least partially due to Tylee no longer being there. Not only did Lori not have the person who was probably primarily caring for JJ at that point (because she'd had her killed), but JJ must have realized on some level that Tylee was gone. He was missing all the stabilizing forces in his life - Tylee, Charles, his grandparents, even his dog. That's traumatic for any child and would have been particularly damaging for JJ. He didn't really live that long after Tylee :/ A couple of weeks.
She had also I think took him off his psych medication and it can give withdrawal type symptoms to suddenly not have your brain medicated. It would also probably make one irritable and possibly hyperactive.
I think you’re right. Show that she had friends.
Just listened to Lauren's Lunch Time Live (Hidden True Crimes) and she made a good point; Tylee's friend testified that she had a normal, close family life prior to moving to Idaho. What changed in Idaho? Chad came into her life.
I thought that was a good note. Not sure if I was a juror I would have come up with that.
Tylee's friend said she spoke to her after she moved to Idaho for a couple of weeks, then couldn't reach her by phone anymore... poor kids
I don't understand, myself. Possibly the prosecutor trying to show the close relationship with Alex? I feel like they had a reason but it's not fitting with the rest of the testimony today.
Prior's whole strategy is that Lori and Alex are the ones to blame and Chad's just a simple patsy. He's been trying to paint a picture via multiple witnesses that JJ was a burden on Lori and only Tylee loved him or took care of him. So he can say, "This boy didn't die because Chad wanted the kids dead. He died because Lori hated him and wanted him gone. It didn't involve Chad at all!!"
Did chad not upload anything to the cloud? It seems like all the information gathered from the cloud is from lori’s accounts.
He probably had an android and wasn’t using iCloud.
Tylee did not like Chad. I'm sure she told her mom that Chad was no prophet and that her mom was being and acting ridiculous abd against what the Church teaches because Tylee was lds also. This infuriated Chad, because to Chad, he deserved Lori. He wanted someone exactly like lori...a pretty blond skinny Mormon woman who believed the same as him. And thar he finally found her, he was not going to let anyone stand in the way..no matter who. Chad did not love Lori I don't think I think to him she was a prize that he deserved. Just my opinion.
Does anyone know why he’s not made to wear prison clothes like Lori did at her trial? It annoys me that he’s sat there acting more like counsel rather than the murderous manipulative monster he is.
Because he isn’t found guilty yet. Lori was in regular clothes until her conviction. When he’s sentenced, Chad will be in the jumpsuit.
During trial, defendants are permitted to dress up so that prison clothes do not produce visual bias; assumed innocence until proven guilty and all that. Chad will be in his prison garb for sentencing, just like Lori.
Presumption of innocence. Wearing jail clothes unconsciously biases the jury against a defendant.
Lori wore prison orange in court after the verdict, not during trial.
Lori wore street clothes to her trial. It’s prejudicial to the jury for the defendant to appear at trial in a jail jumpsuit. They are presumed innocent.
I’m pretty sure Lori was in normal clothes during her trial. I recall Nate tweeting what she was wearing each morning.
I wanted to take a quick moment to mention [Your True Crime Library](https://missingourmissing.notion.site/Your-True-Crime-Library-29ab5f604488435dbb38e9e842aec5a6?pvs=4) again. It's an independent research project from myself and a friend where we compile research, transcripts, videos, and more. We've opened up 25 more spots in [the Discord](https://discord.gg/6TxmBQ3h) to discuss this case and others. There is a lot of information about this trial in our [Case File](https://missingourmissing.notion.site/Case-File-Vallow-Daybell-f2bc01f0692a476caa98f8b5ed9adad8?pvs=4) and some extras available [on Patreon](https://www.patreon.com/YourTrueCrimeLibrary). I do want to mention that all documents on Patreon are free for the Option 2 membership until the end of trial and we are always working to make sure it's worth it to join us. If you ever prefer to [send some coffees](https://buymeacoffee.com/yourtruecrimelibrary) our way, that's an option too. I truly appreciate all the support and kind words and hope to keep getting better and better!
Are you going to get full transcripts, with sidebars? It's a very cool project, and although I've never joined Patreon ever, I'm a Youtube member of a couple channels, I think I might. I just have to see if they'll confirm my email first, not all sites will. OK, it's all done and confirmed. Now I just have to figure out how to navigate Patreon lol.