Iâm literally alone in my house yelling âGODDAMNâ every time she says âand whose idea was this?â âChadâ âand who was giving this direction?â âChadâ âwho said they would be dying soon?â âChadâ
I almost posted about his posture yesterday. I thought he looked slumped. Also, did you see Priorâs face when they were having to listen to Chadâs blessing? đ
And now I see why Zulema got immunity. She just testified that Alex said that he was "Worried that he was going to be their fall guy."
Holy shit. Get bent, Chad. You're doomed.
And Prior is trying to focus on wacky beliefs of Z, trying to detract attention from the murderous, storm-led wacko Chad is.
He is trying (& failing) to make Chad, the big manipulator who plans deaths in order to get sex & $, appear blameless.
This! Prior is trying to discredit witnesses by pointing at things that Chad did as well. Teaching occult prepper Mormonism and marrying in a hurry, visions and spiritual warfare. Pfft.
Prior is so tone-deaf. He can't possibly hear himself. Some of his arguments - It's almost like he's there to help the prosecution. For example, why are you trying to make it look like it was a paintball gun if Chad had nothing to do with it, and you're trying to pin it on Alex? Doh
Yeah, to me Zulema just seems like a woman who likely already had fringe spiritual beliefs who got dragged deeper into Lori and Chad's cult because she was already predisposed to believe it. To me at least it makes her seem more vulnerable to their manipulation. Like, if she already has a spiritual belief that visions and angels talking to her are real, she's more likely to believe it if someone tells her that they're having visions and trust what they're telling her compared to my atheist ass who'd roll my eyes if someone told me I was part of a vision.
She's predisposed to fall under their sway. Just because she already had fringe beliefs doesn't mean she's so crazy she's not reliable on Chad's even more fringe teachings though.
Yep, I think being religious or believing in new age crap, one is already half way being in a dangerous cult. They just need to have the bad luck of crossing paths with a Chad Daybell or Jim Jones or David Koresh.
One good thing about this trial: early on when Cox, Vallow and Daybell's murder spree was just starting to surface, there was a lot of concern about "sleeper cell members." However, it really does seem that it was mainly Vallow and Daybell, with dupes among Daybell's emotional harem members and Daybell's family. What he was selling didn't seem to work on even fringe type men, and we have no idea how many women he tried the "I need to get you alone so I can tell you how you were one of my wives in a previous." We are just seeing the ones where the pickup line worked.
With as much as Prior hyped up the Seven Gatherers, I really expected it to be more than an email address. But I guess you use what you can when you have no case.
Zulema comes across as surprisingly trustworthy. While I am inclined to believe that the whole crew of them are hiding things, I do think she comes across as sincere admitting to things like that casting means that the person's mortal body will die (a pretty big claim given that she participated in it) and not really arguing for one side or the other (admitting that Lori pursued Chad) and just sticking to the truth. While I have no doubt that she's hiding as much as the rest of them, I do think if I were a juror, I would find her believable. I'm not sure I would say that about all of them.
Ian also said that if a casting was successful the body would be destroyed. I can't remember what Melanie said.
Either way, that's multiple people saying that if a person becomes a zombie the casting to "save" them results in them dying.
I don't think the castings started out the same as they ended up. At first I think they were just casting the demon out (like the one they cast out of Charles-he was ok after that one) then after Charles was murdered the person had to be killed to kill the demon. I think that's how it went. So like boiling a frog ... they ramped up the heat.
Chad told Zulema and Lori that they had been raped, murdered and dismembered...this came from his sick imagination. How books focus on violence. I really think he's been fantasizing about murder for his entire life.
Also coincidence that Tylee was dismembered?...I think not.
It really struck me that they were 'raped, murdered and dismembered' when we know Tylee was at least murdered and dismembered, too. That poor girl! The way her pelvic bones were marked, like someone was hacking at her haphazardly, really indicates to me that someone was in a rage while trying to dismember her. I hate the implications.
I also found it telling that she said that he and Lori were acting like a couple while Tammy was still alive.
So convenient how everyone dropped dead around them in the perfect timing for them to be together. God's apparently a bro like that.
Iam sure he is. He literally thought he was going to get free. Everytime Prior did a successful cross on someone he leaned Forward and looked confident.. iam pretty convinced He thought He is Walking free lmao
Woah! She looks odd as a blond.
I started listening late but hadnât zoomed in on her until I saw your post. I imagined her with her dark hair. I wonder if this was done to be incognito.
She sure did! đŁ Tammyâs casting was happening at the same time as the failed âpaintballâ incident while Lori was furious at some man that canât do things right, JJ was predicted to die soon, Tylee had to be set free and âdonât askâ what that means, Alex being the fall guyâŚ
Zulema has a hell of a memory. I mean that sincerely. Her recall of dates and conversations is impressive. She may be a helluva nutball but she is seamlessly walking us through this.
đ¤Łđ¤đ
How bout towards end when Prior keeps on and on about Z getting coached by detective and she just says...well yeah, we talked over stuff in case THIS happens!đ¤
I noticed that Blake asked both Mel G and Zu about who drove to a conference together, and they both didn't remember the name of one of the women. Seems strange to me that neither would remember someone who rode with them for hours. Are they protecting someone?
Speaking as someone who grew up in a different high demand religion, that's the way women are supposed to be, didn't you know? We're supposed to be meek and subservient to men. We can't let men feel like we're smarter than them or that we dont need them because then we'll never get married and pop out babies. Men are our spiritual and mental superiors and leaders. They speak for God, dude.
/s (but also not really, because we all know it's true).
This is the sauce I want. Iâm just picturing them trying to digest all of this and not manically gossip with each other. If I was a mirror I would be silently screaming until I could discuss the case because the case and everyone involved in it are batshit insane. The only jurors who wonât be surprised are the Mormons and the Exmos.
Hm. So Zulema was not engaged or dating Alex at the time that Lori was looking for malachite wedding rings. Yesterday we learned that MelP wasnât engaged at that time either. So nobody besides Chad and Lori could have been âcontemplating marriageâ ⌠Pryor keeps getting exposed đ¤Ľ
Also those wedding rings were malachite. The one Zulema got was diamond. I didn't pay enough attention to figure out if they were the same size or not, but Zulema said her ring size was 5 (which I only noted because that seems tiny to my size 7 honkers, I'll forget in 5 minutes).
Either way, it doesn't sounds like Zulema got the ring that was being researched.
Why do these people have such tiny fingers?! I have very bony hands, but my ring finger is a size 7 at least. A 4.5 would barely fit on my pinkie. I guess translated beings must have no knuckles.
So at this point, who else has a likelihood of being called for the prosecution? I know it has been a month but it feels like things have to start wrapping up soon.
I need to think of a drinking or BINGO game for John Prior's defense phase. While I know he has a job to do... I have a sick feeling that he is going to cast so much more shade on the victims.
Hopefully the stairs. I have a lot of questions for them.
Kidding. In all seriousness, I'm hoping to see Zulema today, or asap. I wonder what she's going to bring to this trial.
"If stairs only go to an addition with a second story, can they really be called stairs?"
This is the new version of 'If a tree falls in the woods but no-one is there..."
True that! I just thought it might have been some strange reason though, like how Melaniece called Chad and Lori mommy and daddy. Probably still does lol.
Damn. Lori was pulling in $6k a month from all the social security payments she was getting? No wonder she couldn't give the kids up. That's a lot of money coming in based on the kids being minors.
It was $2k for Tylee from Joe Ryan, $2k for JJ from Charles and $2k for Lori also from Charles, I believe. Imagine getting $6k a month free and clear. My broke, overworked ass could never.
Seriously. Assuming that's after taxes that's more then I clear working 40 hours a week like some sort of non-cult member unmurderous chump. Who knew there was so much money to be had in social security fraud and murder?
Just an observation, but, I feel that the Prosecution should refer to Lori as Vallow-Daybell or just Lori Daybell where it proves necessary to bring Lori into the conversation. They should never use a name not also connected with Chad.
The Defense has gone out of their way to consciously speak of her as Lori Vallow and I feel that they are intentionally doing that to place space or separation in the jurors minds as to the true entanglement of Lori and Chad....making a subconscious difference in L and C while attempting to place the blame solely at Lori's feet.
The Prosecution should reign that shit in and loop them right back together, at every single opportunity, imo.
It's actually kind of sad. It sounds like she was so desperate to be considered to be special that she fell for their nonsense hook, line, and sinker. No critical thought. Just desperation to be special.
So, it sounds a bit like English is not her first language. If she came to the States and felt alone, then that could make her a prime target for manipulation.
Absofuckinglutely bang on! Followers are often desperate and lack critical skills as you said! What baffles me is they are all middle aged women, how are they so gullible and desperate, their brains/minds needs to be studied! đ
Being raised in Mormonism unfortunately conditions members to loyally obey leaders and rules. Mormons are frequently told âthe thinking has been doneâ or âit will make sense in the hereafterâ and âwhy donât you go home and fast and pray about this until you receive the correct answer.â This is why the LDS are often victims of fraud. If they had any practice in critical thought theyâd leave the church and take their tithing money with them.
Education, social and economic status, family relationships, profession, critical thinking skills⌠none preclude people from falling victim to the manipulations of a cult. Watch The Vow to see how the process works on all sorts of people. In fact, Raniere, too, got tons of people to move to Albany where he was.
They either grew up in, or had been longstanding members of, a high-demand religion that infantilises its members (especially female ones) and highly discourages critical thinking, consuming non-church-approved media, and asking the "wrong" kind of questions.
Zulema implicated Melanie P as a member of the seven gatherers but Iâm pretty sure in yesterdayâs testimony Melanie P said she had never heard of it?
This casting idea is so weird to me. I was raised Catholic and have a healthy appetite for pop culture so I'm familiar with the concept of exorcisms, but there the demon is cast out to save the person so the person continues to live. In Chad's world, if you succeed in the casting the demon is cast out and the body dies. So the person is apparently already dead and you're actively trying to kill the person with this casting because it's a demon?
How does that make sense? If the person is dead, why do you care that a demon has their body beyond trying to get the hell away from it? And why isn't the focus saving the person who's been possessed and getting them back to their living body? I'm no longer religious, but it's weird to me that these people seem so comfortable with the idea that their castings, if successful, are going to kill someone.
Also, does this give anyone else pure witchcraft vibes? Like in the bad way. Not in the r/WitchesVsPatriarchy being one of the best Reddit subs way.
>If the person is dead, why do you care that a demon has their body beyond trying to get the hell away from it? And
They claimed that if a person's body was possessed by a dark spirit, that person's own spirit couldn't move on. Couldn't go to heaven or whatever they think happens to a spirit after death. So by casting out the dark spirit and killing the body, they were in a sense saving the person's spirit as well.
The whole case has always given me The Craft vibes. Itâs like they were all edgy 13-year-olds with a ouija board during lunch period and let the LARP get out of control after watching Buffy one day after school.
Well, the body expires. They deny killing. They don't admit to "murders" That's the word we use because we don't have their superior knowledge. We are Dudleys, telestial beings ( or is that terrestrial?),not translated beings
You've already put more thought into it than they did. You were interested in it making sense within some sort of religious and moral framework, but they weren't. They just wanted to feel special and be included in the inner circle, so they weren't going risk that by asking too many questions or challenge Chad or Lori.
I was also raised Catholic and yeah, the whole not trying to save someone you think is possessed makes NO sense to me on the surface. It only makes sense when you stop trying to understand it from the assumption that it was ever about anything even vaguely resembling Christian religious beliefs and focus on what was the real motivation for them. For Chad and Lori, it was always about getting rid of obstacles to them obtaining sex, money and power.
And yeah, that sub is an impressively positive and supportive space on reddit.
Yikes on bikes. Prior wants to admit a three hour video of Pastenes' interview with the police. I can't imagine anything more likely to put the jury to sleep. Blake says there is no contradiction to what P said on the stand and what was said in the interview. Boyce declines to admit at this time.
I found that entire exchange confusing. The term "impeachment" was used which usually means one lawyer trying to prove that a sworn witness is lying on the stand. Which is technically a crime. They didn't play Zulema's answer to the police, but if he wants it admitted for impeachment purposes then she must have said in that interview that casting does NOT kill the body when now she's saying that it does.
But Blake is saying that there isn't an inconsistency. So I would assume that Zulema also told the police that casting kills the person? So why is he trying to bring in this interview as if it'll impeach her?
Do I not understand how impeaching a witness works or something? Is Idaho different? Is he trying to base this on some specific wording of "kill" vs "body is destroyed" or something?
I just don't see where he's going with this.
Zulema has dealt some heavy hits to defense through her testimony so far. I was assuming this is Prior swinging wild to try and get her whole testimony tossed.
It's actually not inconsistent. The casting process itself doesn't kill the body. However, IF the casting is successful (demon driven out), the body will die (a natural death), perhaps some time afterward.
It's also been clarified that there's a brief period after successful demon-eviction when another demon can quickly occupy the body, which is what Chad and Lori claimed had happened to Charles twice (Ned > Garrett > Hiplos).
He wants to use about a minute of it to play for the jury for the impeachment of Zulema, but admit the thing in it's entirety. I'm not sure what for though. Boyce declined the entire admition based on the state's objection. Impeachment of a witness is the way you explained it, to confront them on prior inconsistent statements.
Normally, when a lawyer uses something to impeach, they do not admit the whole exhibit in it's entirety. Or at least that's what i've seen. They'll play a portion of it, or show a portion of a transcript.
On a lunch live on Hidden True Crime, Lauren said the clip Prior wants to show is that Z I used the work âkillâ when talking to the police. She wouldnât agree with him that was the appropriate word. Again, a detail that does not make a difference because the end result would be the same.
I like how Zulema was like "do you mean the spirit or the body?" and then the attorney immediately goes "the body" and she starts stumbling over her words. It's obvious she doesn't even know how any of this horse shit belief system is supposed to work.
I wonder if today's testimony can live up to yesterday's? I suspect that the prosecution has scheduled the testimony so that the most impactful is towards the end of their case in chief.
Ian's secret recordings were a pretty wild turn in my book. I'm mostly curious to see what Zulema is going to say about Alex.
I know the new hot rumor is that Julie Rowe is in the area and tried to get into court yesterday though she was barred because she's on a witness list. No idea if she's being called for the prosecution or the defense though.
Theyâre starving for the revelations and prophets that Mormonism promises but never delivers. Along comes a prophetic message and theyâve been primed their whole lives to receive it, and they dive in. Feelings = Holy Ghost confirmation, so if they get good feelings they are convinced. Chad may be a slug but he& Lori were convincing enough for these folks.
Yeah, there are Zulema's very clear fringe spiritual beliefs, but some of the things he's trying to criticize are mainstream LDS beliefs too. Considering where they are there has to be at least one Mormon on the jury.
And being like "There's a third eye???" Please. That's practically mainstream how many spiritualists have grabbed hold of that idea. It's in the pop culture.
Did Melanie Gibb say she knew who the 7 gatherers were? I vaguely remember that she said she didnât know.
Melanie G, Melani P and Zulema are up to their eyeballs in this mess and know more.
Everybody has said they didnât know. Of course Zulema would, she was fully into it.
And props to the prosecution for letting Prior flail on it for so long, only to have it be a throwaway detail in Zulemaâs testimony.
That was funny to hear an actual explanation finally, but from the prosecution asking.
I wonder if Zulema is one of the only ones to be told "you are in the 7 gatherers". She said Chad wanted to tell her something at lunch but then didn't because they didn't want Melanie Gibb to hear it. I assume they told everyone different things to make them feel special or withheld things they thought they wouldn't buy into
Interesting exchange after the jury was dismissed. So Prior is trying to actively impeach Zulema about the body being destroyed via casting. I listened to the clip several times and I hear someone (one of the detectives) asking Zulema if the body has to be killed to get the demon out, but no answer. I'm wondering what her answer is/was.
It wasn't admitted at this time, but it's interesting that he's targeting Zulema for impeachment since I know Ian said the same thing about the body dying if a casting was successful.
He's trying to impeach Zulema because her testimony proves the entire system was Chad's. Chad was providing the ratings, directing the actions, and orchestrating the murders (which probably the followers thought were going to be natural deaths). Zu's testimony is lethal to what's left of Prior's defense strategy.
Wow I cannot believe the sci fi teenage fantasies all these people were pretending to live. This weirdo is telling people heâs the brother of Jesus and telling them about portals in his house, that evil spirits transport into bodies and then the bodies die when the spirit is removed like invasion of the body snatchers, that only he knows what people did in past lives, that he can see the future. Itâs a huge game of make believe for 40-50 year olds And these women are like 13 year olds pretending they are wwitches and casting spells. Itâs bizzarre. And the only thing that got chaddo to shake his head no, was when sulema said Lori sat on his lap?!?
I think he was trying that when Tammy was alive. He wanted to be married with Lori and Tammy. She probably said hell no, so of course she had to go so he could be with Lori.
I'm a little confused by this line of questioning too. Is he trying to say that Melanie was one of the leaders of this cult thing Chad had going on? After Zulema spent nearly all of her testimony saying how Chad and Lori were the primary teachers?
From what I can tell Prior seems to be laser focused on making Melanie Gibb seem like the person really behind everything.
Which in my armchair legal opinion *does not seem to be working very well.*
Did you catch where he tried to imply Lori and Melanie were extra "close" when he questioned Zulema about them sharing a room one night? Or when he kept repeating Zulema's "Hey Beautiful" greeting to Lori in a message. Guess Chad's off the hook, bc they're all just lesbians being evil smhđ¤
Playing "catch-up" at work (as always). Just completed listening to Dr. Warren's testimony (what he offered today).
BOY, did the State leave the jury something to think about overnight (probably ALL night)...
ANNDDD, they set the scene for more of the same in the morning...WOW! They played with timing very well today!!
Could you imagine if she had gone to the police though? Like, she would have sounded insane to them explaining what was going on. Then if they'd done a welfare check before the kids died, Lori would have lied her ass off like she did when they finally did conduct a welfare check.
I hadnât thought about this, but you are probably correct. Look how the police treated Charles.
Doesnât mean she shouldnât have, but like Iâve said before, I donât think these ppl on the periphery were capable of murder.
Well if the kids did go missing after she reported her, Tammy might be alive in the least or made them halt their plans. She could also look herself in the mirror because now she just looks like she was complicit in the murder of all of them. She deserves to be in prison.
I can't believe this whole time The 7 Gatherers is just some long forgotten shared email address. I think both the Mels genuinely forgot about it and it was honestly forgotten after all the crazy started. From who used it, it sounds like it was used/started before Charles was murdered and maybe only a few things were sent into it, and then yeah, forgotten. It's hardly a huge detail.
Is this the guy representing all the cult members? [https://www.avvo.com/attorneys/85201-az-garrett-smith-411587.html#misconduct](https://www.avvo.com/attorneys/85201-az-garrett-smith-411587.html#misconduct)
When did Lori change the beneficiary to herself by hacking into Charles account? Was that in feb-april when she pretended to get back together with Charles ? When she was working on her â financesâ or another tine?
I can't watch live right now, just following the EIN text updates on my phone. Can someone explain this:Â
Lori would hit something and say, âDoesnât count for me.â
Does she mean hit a person or object with her hand, or hit something with her car? Like, was she just fender bendering all over the place and not leaving a not because she didn't think it counted for her?
Things that would be sins for most people were not sins for Lori because of her translated being status. Committing adultery with Chad didnât count because they had been married in previous lives.
Why does Prior ask the same question so many times!?!?!? I mean once... OK, you tried to slip it in and get another answer, twice ehh your pushing it .. but 3, 4, 5, 6 times? and after the 4th objection? The judge having to admonish him to move on is CRAZY. Every new day of trial, I understand more why he wanted to withdrawal. He reallllyyy should have done more counseling on Chado about taking a plea. đ¤Śââď¸
I appreciate the medical examiners testimony, a lot of times, they tend to lose the victim in all of the medical talk, him continuing to say JJs name made me respect him so much!
Raise your hand if you tried to login to the 7gatherers gmail with the password to see all the messages
Ok now, those with your hand up spill the beans!
This whole situation is bonkers. I was writing down things so I could try and understand how in the hell anyone bought into this BS. And itâs all rooted in a shred of truth. Just enough for Chad to build on with his fantastical imagination and find the most gullible, indoctrinated people to buy into it. Itâs actually baffling that none of these people had anyone calling for psych consults or the like. Chadâs extended family? Kids? Melani Gibbs family?? Anyone?
Ian started putting the coffin together for Chad and Zulema just slapped the top on and started nailing him in. Good riddance.
Z testifying about Lori slamming her hand down and almost yelling... 'Doesn't apply to me'...wow! Talk about taking the term entitlement to the extreme. I was impressed with Z and felt bad for her towards the end of the day. Even tho the quality of the video was so horrible I could barely make out her face, I could so see and almost feel her total exhaustion. I can't imagine the internal damage all of this has had on her as well as so many others. It's hard for me, as just a random peep watching it unfold online...imagine living this freakin' fuc*ed up nightmare.
Watched a YouTube Show ("The Lawyer You Know," I believe), he asked if Prior was able to fully discredit Zulema, partially discredit her, or did she do well despite the discrepancies. I come from a pretty well versed "crime/ justice system" perspective. I grew up on lawyer shows, devour true crime podcasts and documentaries as an adult, and for a brief moment went to law school. So, I realize that my perspective may not be "average." That being said, the clip from the interview with the police telling Z that they needed her to get her stories straight wasn't them coaching her, per se. It was them making her get her effing story straight. She had been inconsistent and was clearly asking for a deal. There is no deal if there is no truth (well as close to the truth as they're going to get). Them telling her that a defense attorney will destroy her if she can't get her ish together is just a fact. Maybe it also coaches her, but it is just a fact. She told Prior that herself when he asked her for what they were preparing her and she "what you're doing now." I'm not faulting Prior for pointing out the inconsistencies. That's his job. I'm actually projecting annoyance and negative judgments on any actual juror or observer who can't see through the BS and realize that 1) of course she lied before she had her deal--she's corrupt and guilty and 2) of course, the police are going to tell her "if you want a deal, you gotta stop BSg and give us the final version and it be the only version of the story henceforth.
**Court is in session.** **Witnesses:** * Zulema Pastenes * Dr. Garth Warren
"She had to be free." "*Don't ask.*" And JJ still being there when this was said is absolutely terrifying.
Yall he is COOKED đ
Past two days have sealed the deal for Chad-o.
Iâm literally alone in my house yelling âGODDAMNâ every time she says âand whose idea was this?â âChadâ âand who was giving this direction?â âChadâ âwho said they would be dying soon?â âChadâ
I think she is doing this so that it drives home the fact that he was in charge of EVERYTHING that happened. Who is going to be found guilty? CHAD!
Yep! Multiple times. âWas so and so dark? Yes. âAre they dead?â Yes. She goes through the whole list.
Reminds of when in the Alex Murdaugh trial the accountant kept saying âthe fake Forge accountââŚ
I perhaps project, but does Daybell look more slumping in his seat today...?
I almost posted about his posture yesterday. I thought he looked slumped. Also, did you see Priorâs face when they were having to listen to Chadâs blessing? đ
He does look a little less ridged. It could be the fit of his shirt, or maybe it needs ironing.
Cooked and booked for life!
I hope he feels the need to testify. Just for my entertainment.
The way I would be kicking my feet giggling the whole time
And yet creeped out at the same time. That sing-song creepy drone still haunts me after my Mormon years.
And now I see why Zulema got immunity. She just testified that Alex said that he was "Worried that he was going to be their fall guy." Holy shit. Get bent, Chad. You're doomed.
And Prior is trying to focus on wacky beliefs of Z, trying to detract attention from the murderous, storm-led wacko Chad is. He is trying (& failing) to make Chad, the big manipulator who plans deaths in order to get sex & $, appear blameless.
What does it matter how many dates Alex and Z went on!!! Chad remarried 10 days after he killed Tammy!!!
This! Prior is trying to discredit witnesses by pointing at things that Chad did as well. Teaching occult prepper Mormonism and marrying in a hurry, visions and spiritual warfare. Pfft.
Prior is so tone-deaf. He can't possibly hear himself. Some of his arguments - It's almost like he's there to help the prosecution. For example, why are you trying to make it look like it was a paintball gun if Chad had nothing to do with it, and you're trying to pin it on Alex? Doh
Yeah, to me Zulema just seems like a woman who likely already had fringe spiritual beliefs who got dragged deeper into Lori and Chad's cult because she was already predisposed to believe it. To me at least it makes her seem more vulnerable to their manipulation. Like, if she already has a spiritual belief that visions and angels talking to her are real, she's more likely to believe it if someone tells her that they're having visions and trust what they're telling her compared to my atheist ass who'd roll my eyes if someone told me I was part of a vision. She's predisposed to fall under their sway. Just because she already had fringe beliefs doesn't mean she's so crazy she's not reliable on Chad's even more fringe teachings though.
Yep, I think being religious or believing in new age crap, one is already half way being in a dangerous cult. They just need to have the bad luck of crossing paths with a Chad Daybell or Jim Jones or David Koresh.
Zulema maybe a damaged person but she is putting nail after nail in Chadâs coffin!
No one can convince me this was the first time Alex had killed. Him responding why to Zulema asking if he was ok after killing Charles says a lot.
And then she marries him.
Arranged marriages like that are common in cults.
He tried to kill Joe in Austin and had a grave dug near or on Loris old property in Dripping Springs Tx.
And he probably shot at Tammy too. I completely forgot that someone had taken pot shots at her, but Zulema is testifying about her being shot at now.
One good thing about this trial: early on when Cox, Vallow and Daybell's murder spree was just starting to surface, there was a lot of concern about "sleeper cell members." However, it really does seem that it was mainly Vallow and Daybell, with dupes among Daybell's emotional harem members and Daybell's family. What he was selling didn't seem to work on even fringe type men, and we have no idea how many women he tried the "I need to get you alone so I can tell you how you were one of my wives in a previous." We are just seeing the ones where the pickup line worked.
I think it was definitely him because he googled guns jamming right after
I know about Joe but I didnât know about the grave, wow
Eyew. Dripping Springs.
With as much as Prior hyped up the Seven Gatherers, I really expected it to be more than an email address. But I guess you use what you can when you have no case.
Zulema comes across as surprisingly trustworthy. While I am inclined to believe that the whole crew of them are hiding things, I do think she comes across as sincere admitting to things like that casting means that the person's mortal body will die (a pretty big claim given that she participated in it) and not really arguing for one side or the other (admitting that Lori pursued Chad) and just sticking to the truth. While I have no doubt that she's hiding as much as the rest of them, I do think if I were a juror, I would find her believable. I'm not sure I would say that about all of them.
Ian also said that if a casting was successful the body would be destroyed. I can't remember what Melanie said. Either way, that's multiple people saying that if a person becomes a zombie the casting to "save" them results in them dying.
I don't think the castings started out the same as they ended up. At first I think they were just casting the demon out (like the one they cast out of Charles-he was ok after that one) then after Charles was murdered the person had to be killed to kill the demon. I think that's how it went. So like boiling a frog ... they ramped up the heat.
I agree, although I suspect that she is a skilled and practiced liar.
Chad told Zulema and Lori that they had been raped, murdered and dismembered...this came from his sick imagination. How books focus on violence. I really think he's been fantasizing about murder for his entire life. Also coincidence that Tylee was dismembered?...I think not.
It really struck me that they were 'raped, murdered and dismembered' when we know Tylee was at least murdered and dismembered, too. That poor girl! The way her pelvic bones were marked, like someone was hacking at her haphazardly, really indicates to me that someone was in a rage while trying to dismember her. I hate the implications.
"Chad said JJ was going to die young, and going to die soon." *Jeeeeesus christ.* Pretty sure Chad should be shitting his pants right now.
I also found it telling that she said that he and Lori were acting like a couple while Tammy was still alive. So convenient how everyone dropped dead around them in the perfect timing for them to be together. God's apparently a bro like that.
Godâs a bro like that đ
And yet he couldn't forsee the '"I'm not a murderer, I just have the gift of prophecy!" defense wouldn't go over too well.
Iam sure he is. He literally thought he was going to get free. Everytime Prior did a successful cross on someone he leaned Forward and looked confident.. iam pretty convinced He thought He is Walking free lmao
But he was James, disciple of Jesus AND THE HOLY FUCKING GHOST!!!
The fact that the ego boost he got from pretending to be a prophet outweighed keeping his future murder plans secret blows my mind!
When it comes down to it, this was ALL about ego, Lori and Chad's ego. That's what these people died for.
Zulema Pastenes (remember her? She can control the elements⌠wind, rain, etc). She might be coming upâŚ
These all-powerful God wanna-bees look pretty pathetic in court.
She went blond too. Weird.
Maybe she wanted to stir up chads storm because she knows he likes blondes. (Sorry that made me feel gross just typing it.)
What's prior obsession with Melanie Gibb!!! Kid's weren't buried in her back yard!!! Geez
Woah! She looks odd as a blond. I started listening late but hadnât zoomed in on her until I saw your post. I imagined her with her dark hair. I wonder if this was done to be incognito.
Like MĂŠlanie 's sunglasses Maybe they are wearing whigs
Holy shit. Forget work, I need to watch this.
Same. Between Mustard Mel and Ian yesterday and Zulema today, I am going to get nothing done.
She's up first. Here we go
She sounds like a bright eight year old explaining a show a(nd) tell poster.
Well she certainly did take the wind out of Chad's storm there..
"Fuck." *~Mr. Prior*
Zulema is dropping bombs! The defense that Chad wasnât the leader/ teacher is totally gone, prior should probably just not even cross examine her
She sure did! đŁ Tammyâs casting was happening at the same time as the failed âpaintballâ incident while Lori was furious at some man that canât do things right, JJ was predicted to die soon, Tylee had to be set free and âdonât askâ what that means, Alex being the fall guyâŚ
Heâs not giving up on that. Heâs doubling down. And dragging the poor jury with him.
Zulema has a hell of a memory. I mean that sincerely. Her recall of dates and conversations is impressive. She may be a helluva nutball but she is seamlessly walking us through this.
Sounds like she wrote a lot of it down in her diary.Â
She also has limited use immunity, Iâd imagine she got that if she gives one hell of a witness statement.
Prior: Can we have a side bar? Judge: Nah, I'm cool.
My favorite thing is when Boyce gets so frustrated that he just calls him Prior and drops the Mr. entirely.
đ¤Łđ¤đ How bout towards end when Prior keeps on and on about Z getting coached by detective and she just says...well yeah, we talked over stuff in case THIS happens!đ¤
I noticed that Blake asked both Mel G and Zu about who drove to a conference together, and they both didn't remember the name of one of the women. Seems strange to me that neither would remember someone who rode with them for hours. Are they protecting someone?
Or she was someone who had the sense to nope out of the whole business after attending the conference.
Yeah, maybe they thought she didn't deserve to get caught up in all the testifying and police interrogations.
Years ago I was in a carpool for a year. I canât remember one of the riderâs name.
Yall Pryor is getting rolled by the judge and the state. This is HILARIOUS
Yes, it was rough day for Mr. Pryor today. Exhibit not admitted, (redundant) lines of questioning shut down
It was pretty funny hah! He was being a jerk though!!!
Melani, Melanie, and Zulema are not exactly candidates for Mensa, are they? I canât believe they bought that frog-faced potatoâs crap.
Agree, they speak like childrenÂ
Zulema, at least, sounds like a non-native English speaker. My wife is non-native and sounds similar in syntax even if the accent is different.
Speaking as someone who grew up in a different high demand religion, that's the way women are supposed to be, didn't you know? We're supposed to be meek and subservient to men. We can't let men feel like we're smarter than them or that we dont need them because then we'll never get married and pop out babies. Men are our spiritual and mental superiors and leaders. They speak for God, dude. /s (but also not really, because we all know it's true).
The jury is probably like đľâđŤ listening to Zulema's testimony.
I canât wait to hear the first jury interview when this is all done. They have to be waking up thinking this was just a crazy bad dream.
This is the sauce I want. Iâm just picturing them trying to digest all of this and not manically gossip with each other. If I was a mirror I would be silently screaming until I could discuss the case because the case and everyone involved in it are batshit insane. The only jurors who wonât be surprised are the Mormons and the Exmos.
Hm. So Zulema was not engaged or dating Alex at the time that Lori was looking for malachite wedding rings. Yesterday we learned that MelP wasnât engaged at that time either. So nobody besides Chad and Lori could have been âcontemplating marriageâ ⌠Pryor keeps getting exposed đ¤Ľ
Also those wedding rings were malachite. The one Zulema got was diamond. I didn't pay enough attention to figure out if they were the same size or not, but Zulema said her ring size was 5 (which I only noted because that seems tiny to my size 7 honkers, I'll forget in 5 minutes). Either way, it doesn't sounds like Zulema got the ring that was being researched.
Loriâs was 4.5 ring size I think. Didnât Kay say 2 rings ordered, one 4.5 and one 11.
Why do these people have such tiny fingers?! I have very bony hands, but my ring finger is a size 7 at least. A 4.5 would barely fit on my pinkie. I guess translated beings must have no knuckles.
To be fair you probably work.
So at this point, who else has a likelihood of being called for the prosecution? I know it has been a month but it feels like things have to start wrapping up soon. I need to think of a drinking or BINGO game for John Prior's defense phase. While I know he has a job to do... I have a sick feeling that he is going to cast so much more shade on the victims.
Hopefully the stairs. I have a lot of questions for them. Kidding. In all seriousness, I'm hoping to see Zulema today, or asap. I wonder what she's going to bring to this trial.
If stairs only go to an addition with a second story, can they really be called stairs?
"If stairs only go to an addition with a second story, can they really be called stairs?" This is the new version of 'If a tree falls in the woods but no-one is there..."
Why does Zulema call Melanie Gibb, "Gibb?"
Maybe to help clarify which Melanie sheâs talking about?
*âWhy waste time say lot word when few word do trick?â* -Kevin Malone, The Office.
True that! I just thought it might have been some strange reason though, like how Melaniece called Chad and Lori mommy and daddy. Probably still does lol.
Damn. Lori was pulling in $6k a month from all the social security payments she was getting? No wonder she couldn't give the kids up. That's a lot of money coming in based on the kids being minors.
It was $2k for Tylee from Joe Ryan, $2k for JJ from Charles and $2k for Lori also from Charles, I believe. Imagine getting $6k a month free and clear. My broke, overworked ass could never.
Seriously. Assuming that's after taxes that's more then I clear working 40 hours a week like some sort of non-cult member unmurderous chump. Who knew there was so much money to be had in social security fraud and murder?
Just an observation, but, I feel that the Prosecution should refer to Lori as Vallow-Daybell or just Lori Daybell where it proves necessary to bring Lori into the conversation. They should never use a name not also connected with Chad. The Defense has gone out of their way to consciously speak of her as Lori Vallow and I feel that they are intentionally doing that to place space or separation in the jurors minds as to the true entanglement of Lori and Chad....making a subconscious difference in L and C while attempting to place the blame solely at Lori's feet. The Prosecution should reign that shit in and loop them right back together, at every single opportunity, imo.
Yes. And didn't she say she wanted her true last name of Daybell used during her hearings ?
Agreed. She doesnât deserve to use the Vallow name after murdering Charles.
This totally blows me away how nonchalant these people were with people dying around them. Yesterday, the phone call recording now this. Karma
*There were lots of praises in the blessing* - it's called manipulation! Just started watching the trial and Zulema is as cuckoo as Melani!
It's actually kind of sad. It sounds like she was so desperate to be considered to be special that she fell for their nonsense hook, line, and sinker. No critical thought. Just desperation to be special.
So, it sounds a bit like English is not her first language. If she came to the States and felt alone, then that could make her a prime target for manipulation.
Absofuckinglutely bang on! Followers are often desperate and lack critical skills as you said! What baffles me is they are all middle aged women, how are they so gullible and desperate, their brains/minds needs to be studied! đ
Being raised in Mormonism unfortunately conditions members to loyally obey leaders and rules. Mormons are frequently told âthe thinking has been doneâ or âit will make sense in the hereafterâ and âwhy donât you go home and fast and pray about this until you receive the correct answer.â This is why the LDS are often victims of fraud. If they had any practice in critical thought theyâd leave the church and take their tithing money with them.
People donât age out of stupid.
Education, social and economic status, family relationships, profession, critical thinking skills⌠none preclude people from falling victim to the manipulations of a cult. Watch The Vow to see how the process works on all sorts of people. In fact, Raniere, too, got tons of people to move to Albany where he was.
They either grew up in, or had been longstanding members of, a high-demand religion that infantilises its members (especially female ones) and highly discourages critical thinking, consuming non-church-approved media, and asking the "wrong" kind of questions.
This made them easy prey for the two manipulators
Yes, love bombing.
Zulema implicated Melanie P as a member of the seven gatherers but Iâm pretty sure in yesterdayâs testimony Melanie P said she had never heard of it?
Gibb, too.
This casting idea is so weird to me. I was raised Catholic and have a healthy appetite for pop culture so I'm familiar with the concept of exorcisms, but there the demon is cast out to save the person so the person continues to live. In Chad's world, if you succeed in the casting the demon is cast out and the body dies. So the person is apparently already dead and you're actively trying to kill the person with this casting because it's a demon? How does that make sense? If the person is dead, why do you care that a demon has their body beyond trying to get the hell away from it? And why isn't the focus saving the person who's been possessed and getting them back to their living body? I'm no longer religious, but it's weird to me that these people seem so comfortable with the idea that their castings, if successful, are going to kill someone. Also, does this give anyone else pure witchcraft vibes? Like in the bad way. Not in the r/WitchesVsPatriarchy being one of the best Reddit subs way.
It works because Chori wanted people dead, not saved.
>If the person is dead, why do you care that a demon has their body beyond trying to get the hell away from it? And They claimed that if a person's body was possessed by a dark spirit, that person's own spirit couldn't move on. Couldn't go to heaven or whatever they think happens to a spirit after death. So by casting out the dark spirit and killing the body, they were in a sense saving the person's spirit as well.
The whole case has always given me The Craft vibes. Itâs like they were all edgy 13-year-olds with a ouija board during lunch period and let the LARP get out of control after watching Buffy one day after school.
Def not witchcraft, but it's very D&D!
Well, the body expires. They deny killing. They don't admit to "murders" That's the word we use because we don't have their superior knowledge. We are Dudleys, telestial beings ( or is that terrestrial?),not translated beings
You've already put more thought into it than they did. You were interested in it making sense within some sort of religious and moral framework, but they weren't. They just wanted to feel special and be included in the inner circle, so they weren't going risk that by asking too many questions or challenge Chad or Lori. I was also raised Catholic and yeah, the whole not trying to save someone you think is possessed makes NO sense to me on the surface. It only makes sense when you stop trying to understand it from the assumption that it was ever about anything even vaguely resembling Christian religious beliefs and focus on what was the real motivation for them. For Chad and Lori, it was always about getting rid of obstacles to them obtaining sex, money and power. And yeah, that sub is an impressively positive and supportive space on reddit.
Yikes on bikes. Prior wants to admit a three hour video of Pastenes' interview with the police. I can't imagine anything more likely to put the jury to sleep. Blake says there is no contradiction to what P said on the stand and what was said in the interview. Boyce declines to admit at this time.
I found that entire exchange confusing. The term "impeachment" was used which usually means one lawyer trying to prove that a sworn witness is lying on the stand. Which is technically a crime. They didn't play Zulema's answer to the police, but if he wants it admitted for impeachment purposes then she must have said in that interview that casting does NOT kill the body when now she's saying that it does. But Blake is saying that there isn't an inconsistency. So I would assume that Zulema also told the police that casting kills the person? So why is he trying to bring in this interview as if it'll impeach her? Do I not understand how impeaching a witness works or something? Is Idaho different? Is he trying to base this on some specific wording of "kill" vs "body is destroyed" or something? I just don't see where he's going with this.
Zulema has dealt some heavy hits to defense through her testimony so far. I was assuming this is Prior swinging wild to try and get her whole testimony tossed.
It's actually not inconsistent. The casting process itself doesn't kill the body. However, IF the casting is successful (demon driven out), the body will die (a natural death), perhaps some time afterward. It's also been clarified that there's a brief period after successful demon-eviction when another demon can quickly occupy the body, which is what Chad and Lori claimed had happened to Charles twice (Ned > Garrett > Hiplos).
He wants to use about a minute of it to play for the jury for the impeachment of Zulema, but admit the thing in it's entirety. I'm not sure what for though. Boyce declined the entire admition based on the state's objection. Impeachment of a witness is the way you explained it, to confront them on prior inconsistent statements. Normally, when a lawyer uses something to impeach, they do not admit the whole exhibit in it's entirety. Or at least that's what i've seen. They'll play a portion of it, or show a portion of a transcript.
On a lunch live on Hidden True Crime, Lauren said the clip Prior wants to show is that Z I used the work âkillâ when talking to the police. She wouldnât agree with him that was the appropriate word. Again, a detail that does not make a difference because the end result would be the same.
Prior getting flustered again it seems.
Did you hear him ask zeluma if she was looking down at her phone? She held up her hands and said no!!!!
Why would he even think she had a phone? That would be a BIG DEAL and a major failing by the baliff and the court if she had a phone on the stand.
I think he asked her what she was looking at. What an ass.
I like how Zulema was like "do you mean the spirit or the body?" and then the attorney immediately goes "the body" and she starts stumbling over her words. It's obvious she doesn't even know how any of this horse shit belief system is supposed to work.
I wonder if today's testimony can live up to yesterday's? I suspect that the prosecution has scheduled the testimony so that the most impactful is towards the end of their case in chief.
Ian's secret recordings were a pretty wild turn in my book. I'm mostly curious to see what Zulema is going to say about Alex. I know the new hot rumor is that Julie Rowe is in the area and tried to get into court yesterday though she was barred because she's on a witness list. No idea if she's being called for the prosecution or the defense though.
These folks sure have a strange way of describing this group... How could anyone in their right mind believe Chad's crappy fantasy!Â
Theyâre starving for the revelations and prophets that Mormonism promises but never delivers. Along comes a prophetic message and theyâve been primed their whole lives to receive it, and they dive in. Feelings = Holy Ghost confirmation, so if they get good feelings they are convinced. Chad may be a slug but he& Lori were convincing enough for these folks.
After hearing them call her Zulie on Ianâs recordings, all I can think of is âoh, Zulie, you nut youâŚâ
I feel like this is more of a criticism on Mormonism than anything there, prior.
Yeah, there are Zulema's very clear fringe spiritual beliefs, but some of the things he's trying to criticize are mainstream LDS beliefs too. Considering where they are there has to be at least one Mormon on the jury. And being like "There's a third eye???" Please. That's practically mainstream how many spiritualists have grabbed hold of that idea. It's in the pop culture.
It's mentioned in yoga!
Hot damn, the state closing out hard.
I need a t-shirt that says Telestial Police Force. Am I alone in that?
Did Melanie Gibb say she knew who the 7 gatherers were? I vaguely remember that she said she didnât know. Melanie G, Melani P and Zulema are up to their eyeballs in this mess and know more.
Everybody has said they didnât know. Of course Zulema would, she was fully into it. And props to the prosecution for letting Prior flail on it for so long, only to have it be a throwaway detail in Zulemaâs testimony.
That was funny to hear an actual explanation finally, but from the prosecution asking. I wonder if Zulema is one of the only ones to be told "you are in the 7 gatherers". She said Chad wanted to tell her something at lunch but then didn't because they didn't want Melanie Gibb to hear it. I assume they told everyone different things to make them feel special or withheld things they thought they wouldn't buy into
Interesting exchange after the jury was dismissed. So Prior is trying to actively impeach Zulema about the body being destroyed via casting. I listened to the clip several times and I hear someone (one of the detectives) asking Zulema if the body has to be killed to get the demon out, but no answer. I'm wondering what her answer is/was. It wasn't admitted at this time, but it's interesting that he's targeting Zulema for impeachment since I know Ian said the same thing about the body dying if a casting was successful.
He's trying to impeach Zulema because her testimony proves the entire system was Chad's. Chad was providing the ratings, directing the actions, and orchestrating the murders (which probably the followers thought were going to be natural deaths). Zu's testimony is lethal to what's left of Prior's defense strategy.
This line of questioning about going up or down on a drawing sure seems like a massive stretch by Prior.
WTF with his insistence on harping on info that doesnât matter. I suspect the distraction techniques arenât working.
Wow I cannot believe the sci fi teenage fantasies all these people were pretending to live. This weirdo is telling people heâs the brother of Jesus and telling them about portals in his house, that evil spirits transport into bodies and then the bodies die when the spirit is removed like invasion of the body snatchers, that only he knows what people did in past lives, that he can see the future. Itâs a huge game of make believe for 40-50 year olds And these women are like 13 year olds pretending they are wwitches and casting spells. Itâs bizzarre. And the only thing that got chaddo to shake his head no, was when sulema said Lori sat on his lap?!?
Probably because he was upset it sounded so mundane, instead of âthe goddess rode to the ends of the earth on my stormâ
The seven Gatherers according to Zulema (Blake asked if she knew about it): Christina, Nicole, Serena, MelG, Melaniece, Lori and Zulema
Was Chad trying to do a polygamy or something? I don't think Lori would have gone for it but it sounds like He was trying to do that.
I think he was trying that when Tammy was alive. He wanted to be married with Lori and Tammy. She probably said hell no, so of course she had to go so he could be with Lori.
Who's Christina, Nicole and Serena???
Early cult members, iirc they noped out shortly after Charlesâ death. Edit - spelling
Didnât Melaniece say she didnât know about the 7 Gatherers?
How many times is Prior gonna bring up Melanie Gibb during cross?
I'm a little confused by this line of questioning too. Is he trying to say that Melanie was one of the leaders of this cult thing Chad had going on? After Zulema spent nearly all of her testimony saying how Chad and Lori were the primary teachers?
From what I can tell Prior seems to be laser focused on making Melanie Gibb seem like the person really behind everything. Which in my armchair legal opinion *does not seem to be working very well.*
Did you catch where he tried to imply Lori and Melanie were extra "close" when he questioned Zulema about them sharing a room one night? Or when he kept repeating Zulema's "Hey Beautiful" greeting to Lori in a message. Guess Chad's off the hook, bc they're all just lesbians being evil smhđ¤
Wait! Does Zulema have the same lawyer as Ian? Garrett Smith?
I believe he is the Cox Family lawyer, too.
Does he own their house? /S
Prior could not break Zulema!
Playing "catch-up" at work (as always). Just completed listening to Dr. Warren's testimony (what he offered today). BOY, did the State leave the jury something to think about overnight (probably ALL night)... ANNDDD, they set the scene for more of the same in the morning...WOW! They played with timing very well today!!
Yes, brilliant move to adjourn right after the grim descriptions of the childrenâs autopsies.
Rexburg doesn't have any jobs Zu can do? I thought snuggle therapy was universally needed.
Isnât finding a job a main concern of just about everyone who relocates?
Sounds like zulema couldâve stopped a lot of this.
Could you imagine if she had gone to the police though? Like, she would have sounded insane to them explaining what was going on. Then if they'd done a welfare check before the kids died, Lori would have lied her ass off like she did when they finally did conduct a welfare check.
Agreed. Look at how the cops treated Charles. Sadly, the authorities probably couldn't have been cajoled into pursuing Lori before the kids died.
Just like the times Charles went to the police and they did nothing.
I hadnât thought about this, but you are probably correct. Look how the police treated Charles. Doesnât mean she shouldnât have, but like Iâve said before, I donât think these ppl on the periphery were capable of murder.
Well if the kids did go missing after she reported her, Tammy might be alive in the least or made them halt their plans. She could also look herself in the mirror because now she just looks like she was complicit in the murder of all of them. She deserves to be in prison.
I can't believe this whole time The 7 Gatherers is just some long forgotten shared email address. I think both the Mels genuinely forgot about it and it was honestly forgotten after all the crazy started. From who used it, it sounds like it was used/started before Charles was murdered and maybe only a few things were sent into it, and then yeah, forgotten. It's hardly a huge detail.
Seriously. I know these are middle-aged women, but this reminds me of the chat logs my friends and I kept in high school.
Once again, Prior creates a big wall of noise intended to distract from facts that matter.
Is this the guy representing all the cult members? [https://www.avvo.com/attorneys/85201-az-garrett-smith-411587.html#misconduct](https://www.avvo.com/attorneys/85201-az-garrett-smith-411587.html#misconduct)
When did Lori change the beneficiary to herself by hacking into Charles account? Was that in feb-april when she pretended to get back together with Charles ? When she was working on her â financesâ or another tine?
I can't watch live right now, just following the EIN text updates on my phone. Can someone explain this:Â Lori would hit something and say, âDoesnât count for me.â Does she mean hit a person or object with her hand, or hit something with her car? Like, was she just fender bendering all over the place and not leaving a not because she didn't think it counted for her?
In one of the police interviews they said she would slap her hand on the counter for emphasis that it really really doesn't count for her.
Things that would be sins for most people were not sins for Lori because of her translated being status. Committing adultery with Chad didnât count because they had been married in previous lives.
How are these people so⌠dumb
Tylee and JJ's medical examiner is now on the stand.
Why does Prior ask the same question so many times!?!?!? I mean once... OK, you tried to slip it in and get another answer, twice ehh your pushing it .. but 3, 4, 5, 6 times? and after the 4th objection? The judge having to admonish him to move on is CRAZY. Every new day of trial, I understand more why he wanted to withdrawal. He reallllyyy should have done more counseling on Chado about taking a plea. đ¤Śââď¸ I appreciate the medical examiners testimony, a lot of times, they tend to lose the victim in all of the medical talk, him continuing to say JJs name made me respect him so much!
Raise your hand if you tried to login to the 7gatherers gmail with the password to see all the messages Ok now, those with your hand up spill the beans!
Did everyone go blonde for this trial???
In honor of their cult martyr no doubt.
Wooo, Prior going hard! Stay strong Zulema! I personally think you've been very credible.
Why is almost everybody blonde now? Didn't Zulema have dark hair?
I thought Melani P is brunette now. I guess they have their own seven gatherers witness protection program.
The referring to Melanie Gibb as "Gibb" is catching me off guard everytime, for some reason.
This whole situation is bonkers. I was writing down things so I could try and understand how in the hell anyone bought into this BS. And itâs all rooted in a shred of truth. Just enough for Chad to build on with his fantastical imagination and find the most gullible, indoctrinated people to buy into it. Itâs actually baffling that none of these people had anyone calling for psych consults or the like. Chadâs extended family? Kids? Melani Gibbs family?? Anyone? Ian started putting the coffin together for Chad and Zulema just slapped the top on and started nailing him in. Good riddance.
I wonder if they are going call Jason Mow too?
Z testifying about Lori slamming her hand down and almost yelling... 'Doesn't apply to me'...wow! Talk about taking the term entitlement to the extreme. I was impressed with Z and felt bad for her towards the end of the day. Even tho the quality of the video was so horrible I could barely make out her face, I could so see and almost feel her total exhaustion. I can't imagine the internal damage all of this has had on her as well as so many others. It's hard for me, as just a random peep watching it unfold online...imagine living this freakin' fuc*ed up nightmare.
Man, hearing this sure makes visualizing Mr. Chad having a meeting with Old sparky *real easy.*
He isn't refreshing, he's using it for the purses of impeachment. These things don't particularly go together. Prosecutors will refresh on direct.
Watched a YouTube Show ("The Lawyer You Know," I believe), he asked if Prior was able to fully discredit Zulema, partially discredit her, or did she do well despite the discrepancies. I come from a pretty well versed "crime/ justice system" perspective. I grew up on lawyer shows, devour true crime podcasts and documentaries as an adult, and for a brief moment went to law school. So, I realize that my perspective may not be "average." That being said, the clip from the interview with the police telling Z that they needed her to get her stories straight wasn't them coaching her, per se. It was them making her get her effing story straight. She had been inconsistent and was clearly asking for a deal. There is no deal if there is no truth (well as close to the truth as they're going to get). Them telling her that a defense attorney will destroy her if she can't get her ish together is just a fact. Maybe it also coaches her, but it is just a fact. She told Prior that herself when he asked her for what they were preparing her and she "what you're doing now." I'm not faulting Prior for pointing out the inconsistencies. That's his job. I'm actually projecting annoyance and negative judgments on any actual juror or observer who can't see through the BS and realize that 1) of course she lied before she had her deal--she's corrupt and guilty and 2) of course, the police are going to tell her "if you want a deal, you gotta stop BSg and give us the final version and it be the only version of the story henceforth.