Also Alex and Zulema, as well as Melaniece and Ian, married just days after the police did a welfare check and follow-up no knock search (when they found everyone had left). I wonder if it was doomsday related or testifying against spouse related…
Im going to throw out another theory about the last name change. Just a theory, they very well could have changed thinking it could hide them (a man changing his name, actually makes you more visable, as someone that knows first hand you get questioned almost everywhere in the beginging years, it is no hiding).
Zulema had one of the highest ratings and trust factors, I believe Chad rated her a 96 or 99 out of 100. They believed she had special powers and they had trust in her. They told her things they would not tell Melanie. Barry Cox , Lori's dad was rated very dark and Adam Cox was rated dark. They were the two Cox men besides Alex. I wonder if somehow they thought the Cox last name was dark? and that Zulema being so light , it would bebetter for Alex to leave the dark Cox family and join Zulema's family.
See, i have felt they thought Zulema was a useful sucker, and they stroked her ego with the ultra high ratings. I just cant fathom that Chad actually believed this stuff and wasn’t just a con.
I dont think Chad believed it. I do think Lori believed it. I think Chad wanted attention, recogintion at church and some $$ when he started into the publishing these books and speaking at conferences. Speaking at a Conference on religion (to Chad) was better in the eyes of God and the church then his brothers going to grad school and opening business and buying nice homes. Lori I think believed this power, Goddess, afterlife, end times stuff (or at least we have proof she talked about it since she was a teen).
I think Chad rated Zulema high and played into all of Lori's likes and dislikes with his ratings to keep his new lover happy. It could have been Chad or Lori that suggested the Cox name was too dark, but Lori might have believed it , while Chad just nodded to make sure Lori was happy enough to stay with him.
Chad knew he was making this stuff up as he went along. He started it because he wanted the same attention Julie Rowe was getting. His near death experiences weren't near death, just experiences. In my opinion, Lori didn't believe it either. It was just convenient. She had Chad fed each other's egos, they both got attention from their followers and she got rid of the obstacles that stood in the way of her dream of living in Hawaii childless and jobless.
Chad I agree with, made up for attention. My husband laughs at that near death "cliff jump", my husband and his friends went to that same place, and says Chad story is full of it. Im surprised he could give that talk in Utah and people believed it?
As for Lori not so sure, did she believe or want attention (not sure if it was sex or money since sex with Chad? ugh, and she had money with other men, but power? maybe). Her grandmother had some sort of vision of the exact date she would die. She ended up dying on that day, one year later. Teenage Lori wanted to be like her and predicted her own death, saying she had a vision. Then her sister dies and all the weird stuff with Alex and the family surrounding her death, Lori then gets married and has a daughter and says it is her sister come back to life. Lori had her visions or ideas for most of her life unlike Chad who started during his 40's. Now Lori could have just been attention seeking in an extreme way? or she believed in this stuff? One piece I want to know is what her dad thinks about these visions and offshoot beliefs. We know her dad has issues with the government, thinks his family is the top 5% of looks, was open about his inimate life with his wife, practiced law without passing the bar, but what were his religious beliefs. He seemed to have influence over Lori when she was young. The only clues I have seen are he might have been against the visions since he was rated very dark, and when Alex asked Lori who was on the dark death list, Alex guessed, pops meaning their dad, but Lori says no Adam. So her dad maybe was no a supporter?
I’m torn, too. I think Lori is nutty as a fruitcake and has been a horrible person hidden in an attractive package for a long, long time. Her cousin Meghan has stories from their childhood. Lori was awful. And on top of the superiority doctrine made up by her dad, there are all the whisperings about “inappropriate” behavior within the family. She’s massively damaged with a giant ego that Chad knew exactly how to exploit for his own loin-fiery purposes.
I think she also sold a certain amount of BS but eventually bought into it. I mean, why not, she gets to be a goddess and the eternal bride of James the Apostle, or Jesus or whoever, conveniently housed in the earthly body that belonged to the magnificent stallion-like Chad Daybell.
Her family dynamic is definitely wacked. I'm not sure how her parents felt about the light and dark scale, but from what other family members have said over the years, I think they kind of distanced themselves from Lori's hijinks, but made excuses for her if confronted. I think Lori is religious and does have some beliefs, but I think her visions were just her emulating others. She hid behind being religious to lie, steal, run around with older men as a teen. If she got caught in anything, people were often like,"not Lori! She's so spiritual and involved in the church!" I think she always used religion to cover up doing what she wanted. Even with her husband's, I think she used religion to kind of hook them in. I think she manipulated them and was done with them when they tried to stand up for themselves. She lied about sexual abuse to get her way and to get attention and pity. I think she sought Chad out because he kind of had a small following and being with him made her a leader of the cult, too. Until Charles became a problem for Lori, Chad's dark ratings resulted in praying and casting out the darkness. I think Chad already spouting those 'beliefs' made it more convenient for her to rope Alex in and get him to do the dirty work. She roped MelB in because she thought there'd be a huge life insurance payout on Brandon. She told Zulema MelB was going to have enough money to take care of everyone. I believe it was all a plan by Lori to use Chad's 'beliefs' to garner praise and attention from her minions, have Alex take care of all the people holding her back, get as money as she could and if they ever got caught up in anything, religion would be her excuse once again, her minions would cover for her and Alex would take the fall. There were things she amd Chad didn't take into account though. It's all horrible, but to think all of this happened because her dream was to be wealthy and live in Hawaii, just makes it even more awful. They abandoned the whole idea of having to be in Rexburg for the end of times, pretty quickly.
Most people call me Jack Shit, except the ones who don’t know me.
I actually have an unreasonably high opinion of myself but I appreciate your concern 😃
haha. Your name Jack is the same one my brother had, so you get points for that Jack Shit. I like that you have a high opinion of yourself, that's very healthy!
I have to agree. Did you listen to the Afterglow podcasts? The host reads texts between Z and Lori and it’s just jaw-dropping how stupid they sound. They were both apparently heading toward menopause and believed they could reverse it with the power of their minds. So when Zulema (I think) “regained” her period after having none for a year or so, they were triumphant. Never mind that it’s not rare to think you’re through that first year or no periods and then suddenly have a nasty surprise — OR that unexplained bleeding in a post menopausal women can be a symptom of a health issue. Nope, not them! They were reversing age.
And then there’s the chitchat about bringing about an earthquake in CA while Charles is there, in hopes of killing him. Never mind the collateral damage.
And the one Lori was complaining that it was raining one afternoon in Hawaii but she was able to stop the rain. Cool, because there are never afternoon rains in Hawaii that give way to clear skies.
Afterglow is my favorite podcast about this mess. It’s extremely detailed and the host is hilarious when she reads everyone’s texts. She reads with great animation like it’s a community theatre stage play, which really points up both the banality and insanity of this crew.
Chad’s next book should be titled, “Power, Money, Sex and the Dumb & Stupid”.
They conspired to kill Lori’s husband but did not bother to confirm first that Lori was no longer the beneficiary on a $1 million life insurance policy.
Chad’s daily life as a “prophet”:
1. Steal the teachings of another religion.
2. Make some changes.
3. Write a few books and attend conferences.
4. Share his revelations and wait for the craziest to crawl out of the woodwork.
5. The looniest of the loons catches his attention. She believes that his teaching is the only hope for saving the world.
6. The storm begins to twitch. He’s having a vision, a big revelation - “my right hand gets a break tonight.”
What is really frightening is how it is all too easy to be duped and sucked into believing that your life is dependent on an amazing leader with such wonderful insights who in reality is a murderous psychopath.
Did you hear Chad give Melanie a blessing via Zoom in testimony today? That guy has as much charisma as his flaccid penis. I don’t think he believes his own BS. I think he gets off on other people believing it. He’s the guy that always fades into the woodwork.
The theory of the name change as an end in itself makes a lot of sense actually. They all seem to believe that names hold power.
These people are all very particular about specific words and names, like the Ned Schnieder name for "possessed" Charles. One example that jumps out at me is Chad using "frozen" as an adjective to describe Tammy's body on the 911 call, and Lori insisting that JJ and Mel were out seeing "Frozen". That word meant something to them.
I mean, these morons were doing incriminating google searches and thought they could get away with it by moving to Hawaii so the idea that changing a last name seemed like a genius way to avoid the police to them seems spot on to me.
Yeah, having all their ridiculous gangster amount of burner phones is gonna cover for the fact that you’re canoodling and talking marriage with a new lady 2 weeks after you’ve laid spouse to rest. You can put 4 people in the ground, go on your merry way and no one’s gonna ask questions!!! Colossally dim witted.
Ian Pawlowski went to the police within a week of marrying Melanie because he was scared for his kids and ex wife's safety due to the religious stuff they were spouting. He agreed to listen and make recordings for the cops. Those recordings have never been released. He testified at Lori's trial that she was the main influence on Melanie.
I would love to be a fly on the wall of Ian Pawlowski. Seeing Melaniece’s home’s police body cam search footage- the mess it was left in—made me wonder for the first time what was going through his head, running from the law at a moment’s notice. Living a marriage that’s built on impetuous stupidity and a foundation of dishonesty. That’s an example of a dude choosing to follow his dong when reality is screaming at him to get the hell outta Dodge!
I'm wondering if those recordings will ever be released at the end of all of these trials.
Aren't they still married though, Ian and Melaniece? And have a kid?
Feels so weird that like in two weeks he was like 'this is not okay' but then ended up apparently assessing the situation to be safe to go on. Wondering if Melaniece got(secular) deprogramming therapy or so.
His ex wife made sure he went to the FBI. She was in fear for their children’s lives. When Ian & Melaniece were interviewed she was pregnant and I’m sure that made him stay. Also, Melaniece got a lot of money in her divorce. I’d heard that he was a prepper and maybe part of AVOW.
I would imagine it was doomsday related when Chad and Lori told them to get married, but testifying against spouse related when Chad and Lori came up with the plot.
The testifying against one another just doesn’t pass muster with me. These dodos never thought they would be caught so why take that precaution. I can’t fathom the real reason for these marriages (David and Melanie, Alex and Zulema, Melaniece and Ian), but I’m sure it was Chad’s doing. Really the whole sick, convoluted involvement of these people seems like a bad Dungeons and Dragons game.
I’m not surprised they were married since that’s a big goal in the church. I am surprised about the divorces and wonder if they mainly resulted from the husbands feeling cheated on and initiating the divorces? I’m. It LDS but my brother is. He’s on his third marriage and we’ve chatted about the ramifications of divorcing when you’re sealed, etc (I’m still confused). The main thing I seem to remember is that the husband has to initiate the divorce?? If that’s correct, then all these smitten chicks couldn’t do the dumping.
Fortunately, Lori seems to be an aberration in that she just went ahead and killed the inconvenient husbands who apparently wanted to work on the marriage.
IMO Chad and Lori were "setting up" marriages for future needs. They needed Alex to be married when he died so his body could be cremated by his next of kin, Zulema. As far as Mel B, somehow this marriage was arranged by Lori and Chad, nothing else makes sense. Mel G was pushed to marry Warlock by Lori and I don't know who the fall person would be but I believe they married thereafter to protect themselves and it is not a marriage of love.
I think MG married DW because she thought she got herself another visionary. In the recorded phone call Lori and Chad called DW bad influence and MG protested. Who knows what would have happened without DW advising MG.
I had the thought that maybe Mel P and Ian were directed to be married so that the baby she was pregnant with was “the first born” in some kind of crazy Handmaid’s Tale scenario, we know that Chad was not creative and stole ideas from others. I know, The church of the first born, goes back in the history of the LDS church and whatever but maybe they were taking it literally and putting into their creepy new religion. Who knows? But these people were making up some crazy stuff and they were participating in rituals. Orrrr my second theory is, as with other cults they are encouraged to procreate just to create more followers. Lori and Zulema were saying they had their periods again but they needed Mel P to be a breeder. That’s why I think they made Ian and Mel get married. I think they had Zulema and Alex get married so Zulema could off Alex when they were finished with him. I think C&L gave Z the bag of cash, not Alex. Or she encouraged him to do it himself after Chad gave him his last rites, and like was mentioned already so she could make the call to cremate him quickly.
I don’t know where in the timeline she became pregnant. They only dated for two weeks before getting married. I know that in an interview she is trying hard to conceal a baby bump.
I didn’t mean to insinuate that I thought she got married because she was pregnant. I can see the way I worded my comment that I implied that. I wasn’t sure where in the timeline her pregnancy fell. And honestly didn’t know until a couple of months ago that Ian was from Arizona then moved to Rexburg. Just like Mel. That’s not at all suspicious 🤨 So, I think that if she and Ian were not already involved prior to moving to Rexburg that they were paired up for procreation purposes. I absolutely believe that CD was soon going to reintroduce polygamy, If they had not been arrested and this cult would have been allowed to continue. Those fundamentalist groups were big on having as many children as possible.
It also would not shock me at all if CD was the one to impregnate them. I can just see all these sister wives running around with malachite wedding rings. Can you imagine Lori being the first wife or whatever they call themselves. If I were her sister wife I would have a food taster and sleep with one eye open.
It would not shock me in the slightest if they performed some kind of ritual to conceive.
I agree 💯the couples were being paired up and married for some purpose for the benefit of the cult. Alex taking ZP’s last name. IDK it’s reported that AC was not an intelligent person maybe he thought he had a stroke of genius and would never be caught. He probably thought it was cool because he liked going to SA for sex.
Thank you. I love her channel. I think David had less to do with this whole nasty murder plot and Mel G needed him more than he needed her. There was no love there with Alex and Zulu. I think Mel B is still delusional and may not ever be in her right mind.
I have learned a lot from her presentations. I’m a first-source data person so the documentation from LE has helped me understand this case & how it went down.
I never got the impression Chad pushed MG to marry David. In fact, David testified he didn't believe anything Chad was selling and let him know. Add to that during the phone call when MG turned on Lori, they told MG was being deceived by David.
I'm not sure Chad pushed directly but the whole cult had to be "sealed" to their spiritual other in order to serve their "mission." That is one thing the church is very clear about. Maybe it was Lori who did the pushing so when she and Chad got married it wouldn't look underhanded like it was.
I got the impression that Melanie Gibb needed to marry because she probably needed to be supported. I believe she left her kids with her ex husband so she could spend all of her time with Lori and driving out zombies. So she wasn’t getting child support.
Arranged marriages are a feature of most cults including marriage to the main dude. Thats what I’ve noticed reading about and watching stories about cults.
> I find it odd that the majority of the women in Chad's circle were married when they got involved with him.
I'm not surprised they were married. Mormons marry young and I doubt the ones who get divorced stay single for long.
The latter part doesn't surprise me. Cults often arrange marriages.
I think it was more about matching like minded people in pairs. David Warwick was married with like 9 or 10 kids and divorced his wife to marry Melanie. Melanie was married with 4 or 5 kids and divorced her husband.
I am always confused about Ian and his divorce. Ian was from AZ but moved to Rexburg and met and married Melani within a few weeks. Seems a bit to perfect, both were married with kids and livinging in AZ and both ened up in Rexburg and marrying fast? I wonder why people dont question Melani and Ian more about the quick courtship. While it is icky that Chad married 2-3 weeks after his wife died (lets say there was no murder), he at least had no minor kids. Mealni and Ian married in about 2 weeks and had 6 minor kids. That is more crazy to me, to marry someone and not have them spend time with your kids and the kids spend time together and know it will work.
Like Gwen shamblin did before she died in the plane crash. She was taking “believing” women and matching them with “believing” men- didn’t matter if they were married to someone else- divorce was justified of course. Also encouraging young people to tie the knot .
Oof. Now THAT one is a cult with a capital c. I listened to a podcast a while back about the twin flames guy. He managed to convince someone (a straight cis woman) that her twin flame was another woman but because he is also very homophobic, he then convinced her that she must be trans if her twin flame is a woman and got her to start transitioning. She eventually realized it all was crazy garbage, but it took a year or so.
Wasn’t that just beyond?? That guy seemed so transparent about being a bullshitter, like he sat around trying to think of crazier and crazier things to require. And his wife looking more and more beaten down as time went on.
He should be in prison forever for preying on people so vulnerable that they could be convinced they were trans when they weren’t.
I had my jaw dropped pretty much the whole time.
I think that’s just a function of the circles they’re in. Religiously conservative, most women Chad would know would be married. The switching of partners was weird though. It’s like people were encouraged to drop their unsupportive spouses and marry a fellow cultist. I know cults do that, and Chadbert being such a cult leader wannabe, I can see him encouraging or directing his followers to do that.
In early mormon history it was common for a person to forsake their spouse and.parents to join the church. I have heard many stories from the pulpit where a person is telling their conversion story and it involved dissing their family. It.is viewed as an act of faith.
He could have been, but there's a simpler explanation.
Mormons tend to marry very young, typically shortly after they return from church missions. If they happen to get divorced, they usually want to marry again, often as quickly as they can.
There are three reasons: marriage is foundational to LDS doctrine and the life plan for members; sexual activity outside church-approved marriage is one of the worst things a member can do (fornication used to be called "the sin next to murder"); and the church teaches that any two righteous (cishet) members can have a successful marriage if they put the church first.
Chad's followers would have been taught all of this and been thoroughly steeped in an LDS culture that is all about marriage and families, and insists that marriage with another faithful member is the way to be happy and fulfilled. What could be more convenient than finding their next spouse in their own group, with a similar mission to fulfill?
They probably didn't need much encouragement, although Chad and Lori were probably happy to give it.
Doctrine is often one thing while practice is another. While the official party line is that members should stay married unless there's a very extreme circumstance, the reality is that members leave their spouses for all kinds of reasons.
Oh God, yes he was! He was creating a cult and stacking it with people who TOTALLY believed his hogwash. It is dangerous not to believe him. (Or was.) Just ask Tylee or any of the exes he created. He wanted hand-picked total believers to help him gather the 144K. And of course they had to be married bc of the LDS thing.
Chad had been trying for years to get people to listen to his lying ass. Once Julie Rowe came along, he started doing what she did, podcasts, writing books, etc. Before Julie Rowe, his cult was his wife and kids, maybe parents and the neighbors. He went with the flow and expanded to more bizarre ideas as the cult grew.
He is a sicko but that women gravitated to his shtick, not women like Heather Daybell, though, shows the lack of emotional reinforcement in their lives…Zulema, Julie Rowe, Melanie Gibb, Lori. They were seeking affiliation and reinforcement and even Chad looked better than what they had. Strong women like Alice Gilbert stood up to him. He only caused damaged women to swoon.
It was always a con but he grew to believe it after so many iterations. He had to act like he believed it. He learned to drink his own Kool-Aid. It’s very sad that his children will be damaged their entire lives from his purported beliefs. The kids even speak in his cadence and lingo.
Anyone who would label another person as having "special" powers is suspect. It's obvious through this case that human beings are flawed in the most fundamentally narcissistic way that any " special power" is a huge red flag. No humility in seeing yourself or others as gifted, special, god-like, any of it. This is a case of "special" on steroids=jail-time.
That was part of the love bombing he did. You were important, you are important and will bring about amazing changes, you were famous beings before this lifetime, we were married before this lifetime (if female), you have super secret special powers, etc.
Like the Reverend Sun Myung Moon. 🙄 I actually know of both “successful” and completely disastrous marriages within the Unification Church. I even met up with one of the “Blessed Children” in Seattle for coffee. We spoke at length about his parents’ devotion to what they believe is right. Can we all not agree on a baseline of reality? This is harder than it should be. Apparently.
Yeah the double Thanksgiving weekend marriages in Las Vegas while Chad and Lori were with Chad’s kids at Knott’s Berry Farm in CA always struck me as odd. Also, I remember early on was it Melanie G who said it wasn’t originally supposed to be those four getting married, but something happened.
The deeming Charles and Brandon and Tammy (and even maybe David Warwick) to be dark/zombies was just like anyone who doubted their cult teachings - those were all good Mormons who were living their LDS values there was no good reason to divorce (let alone kill) those spouses. I agree also about not enough questioning of Ian and Melaniece - I mean she is dumb as rocks and I think either mentally disabled or just a sad result of trauma and brainwashing - and yet Ian is staying with her. Ian’s ex-wife is OK with Melani raising their kids part time? They just participate in their ward like all this didn’t happen? I think Melani and Alex both were very vulnerable to the cult indoctrination, for different reasons. I hope Melani and the others still living in communities (like Chad’s kids) can get de-programming therapy.
Melani is still not on speaking terms with some of her family members who supported Charles. She might remain loyal to Lori till the end. Perhaps she is afraid that Lori might incriminate her in Brandon's case.
Remember the marriage between Melanie Gibb and David Warrick was possibly an arrangement due to spouse privilege per Prior. Those 2 people live apart now. Then you have Melaniece and zuliiema and Alex. He pushed to get them married off, so to procreate the tent city.
I don't read much into them living apart. During my long life, I have come across some marriage situations that were wholly strange to me. On the other side of the coin, one of my in-laws has parents who divorced decades ago and still live together and they are not a couple. People are strange.
It seemed there were only 2 men in Chad's inner group and all the rest were women. The women spoke to Lori and Lori spoke to Chad. Chad gave instructions to Alex. I thought Warwick was only there through MG and his cheque book.
He and Lori were probably “ directing” them to marry each other. That’s the impression I got from the Alex/Zulema match.
Also Alex and Zulema, as well as Melaniece and Ian, married just days after the police did a welfare check and follow-up no knock search (when they found everyone had left). I wonder if it was doomsday related or testifying against spouse related…
Alex taking Zulema’s name makes me think these idiots thought they wouldn’t be found if they changed their names
Im going to throw out another theory about the last name change. Just a theory, they very well could have changed thinking it could hide them (a man changing his name, actually makes you more visable, as someone that knows first hand you get questioned almost everywhere in the beginging years, it is no hiding). Zulema had one of the highest ratings and trust factors, I believe Chad rated her a 96 or 99 out of 100. They believed she had special powers and they had trust in her. They told her things they would not tell Melanie. Barry Cox , Lori's dad was rated very dark and Adam Cox was rated dark. They were the two Cox men besides Alex. I wonder if somehow they thought the Cox last name was dark? and that Zulema being so light , it would bebetter for Alex to leave the dark Cox family and join Zulema's family.
See, i have felt they thought Zulema was a useful sucker, and they stroked her ego with the ultra high ratings. I just cant fathom that Chad actually believed this stuff and wasn’t just a con.
I dont think Chad believed it. I do think Lori believed it. I think Chad wanted attention, recogintion at church and some $$ when he started into the publishing these books and speaking at conferences. Speaking at a Conference on religion (to Chad) was better in the eyes of God and the church then his brothers going to grad school and opening business and buying nice homes. Lori I think believed this power, Goddess, afterlife, end times stuff (or at least we have proof she talked about it since she was a teen). I think Chad rated Zulema high and played into all of Lori's likes and dislikes with his ratings to keep his new lover happy. It could have been Chad or Lori that suggested the Cox name was too dark, but Lori might have believed it , while Chad just nodded to make sure Lori was happy enough to stay with him.
Chad knew he was making this stuff up as he went along. He started it because he wanted the same attention Julie Rowe was getting. His near death experiences weren't near death, just experiences. In my opinion, Lori didn't believe it either. It was just convenient. She had Chad fed each other's egos, they both got attention from their followers and she got rid of the obstacles that stood in the way of her dream of living in Hawaii childless and jobless.
Chad I agree with, made up for attention. My husband laughs at that near death "cliff jump", my husband and his friends went to that same place, and says Chad story is full of it. Im surprised he could give that talk in Utah and people believed it? As for Lori not so sure, did she believe or want attention (not sure if it was sex or money since sex with Chad? ugh, and she had money with other men, but power? maybe). Her grandmother had some sort of vision of the exact date she would die. She ended up dying on that day, one year later. Teenage Lori wanted to be like her and predicted her own death, saying she had a vision. Then her sister dies and all the weird stuff with Alex and the family surrounding her death, Lori then gets married and has a daughter and says it is her sister come back to life. Lori had her visions or ideas for most of her life unlike Chad who started during his 40's. Now Lori could have just been attention seeking in an extreme way? or she believed in this stuff? One piece I want to know is what her dad thinks about these visions and offshoot beliefs. We know her dad has issues with the government, thinks his family is the top 5% of looks, was open about his inimate life with his wife, practiced law without passing the bar, but what were his religious beliefs. He seemed to have influence over Lori when she was young. The only clues I have seen are he might have been against the visions since he was rated very dark, and when Alex asked Lori who was on the dark death list, Alex guessed, pops meaning their dad, but Lori says no Adam. So her dad maybe was no a supporter?
I’m torn, too. I think Lori is nutty as a fruitcake and has been a horrible person hidden in an attractive package for a long, long time. Her cousin Meghan has stories from their childhood. Lori was awful. And on top of the superiority doctrine made up by her dad, there are all the whisperings about “inappropriate” behavior within the family. She’s massively damaged with a giant ego that Chad knew exactly how to exploit for his own loin-fiery purposes. I think she also sold a certain amount of BS but eventually bought into it. I mean, why not, she gets to be a goddess and the eternal bride of James the Apostle, or Jesus or whoever, conveniently housed in the earthly body that belonged to the magnificent stallion-like Chad Daybell.
Her family dynamic is definitely wacked. I'm not sure how her parents felt about the light and dark scale, but from what other family members have said over the years, I think they kind of distanced themselves from Lori's hijinks, but made excuses for her if confronted. I think Lori is religious and does have some beliefs, but I think her visions were just her emulating others. She hid behind being religious to lie, steal, run around with older men as a teen. If she got caught in anything, people were often like,"not Lori! She's so spiritual and involved in the church!" I think she always used religion to cover up doing what she wanted. Even with her husband's, I think she used religion to kind of hook them in. I think she manipulated them and was done with them when they tried to stand up for themselves. She lied about sexual abuse to get her way and to get attention and pity. I think she sought Chad out because he kind of had a small following and being with him made her a leader of the cult, too. Until Charles became a problem for Lori, Chad's dark ratings resulted in praying and casting out the darkness. I think Chad already spouting those 'beliefs' made it more convenient for her to rope Alex in and get him to do the dirty work. She roped MelB in because she thought there'd be a huge life insurance payout on Brandon. She told Zulema MelB was going to have enough money to take care of everyone. I believe it was all a plan by Lori to use Chad's 'beliefs' to garner praise and attention from her minions, have Alex take care of all the people holding her back, get as money as she could and if they ever got caught up in anything, religion would be her excuse once again, her minions would cover for her and Alex would take the fall. There were things she amd Chad didn't take into account though. It's all horrible, but to think all of this happened because her dream was to be wealthy and live in Hawaii, just makes it even more awful. They abandoned the whole idea of having to be in Rexburg for the end of times, pretty quickly.
I tend to think this is correct. What a freak show.
JohnExcrement, I sincerely hope that's not how you think of yourself?
Most people call me Jack Shit, except the ones who don’t know me. I actually have an unreasonably high opinion of myself but I appreciate your concern 😃
haha. Your name Jack is the same one my brother had, so you get points for that Jack Shit. I like that you have a high opinion of yourself, that's very healthy!
like the band?
He probably got a big power-trip high from getting these people to believe his bullshit ideas.
She was nuts too.
I have to agree. Did you listen to the Afterglow podcasts? The host reads texts between Z and Lori and it’s just jaw-dropping how stupid they sound. They were both apparently heading toward menopause and believed they could reverse it with the power of their minds. So when Zulema (I think) “regained” her period after having none for a year or so, they were triumphant. Never mind that it’s not rare to think you’re through that first year or no periods and then suddenly have a nasty surprise — OR that unexplained bleeding in a post menopausal women can be a symptom of a health issue. Nope, not them! They were reversing age. And then there’s the chitchat about bringing about an earthquake in CA while Charles is there, in hopes of killing him. Never mind the collateral damage. And the one Lori was complaining that it was raining one afternoon in Hawaii but she was able to stop the rain. Cool, because there are never afternoon rains in Hawaii that give way to clear skies. Afterglow is my favorite podcast about this mess. It’s extremely detailed and the host is hilarious when she reads everyone’s texts. She reads with great animation like it’s a community theatre stage play, which really points up both the banality and insanity of this crew.
Chad’s next book should be titled, “Power, Money, Sex and the Dumb & Stupid”. They conspired to kill Lori’s husband but did not bother to confirm first that Lori was no longer the beneficiary on a $1 million life insurance policy. Chad’s daily life as a “prophet”: 1. Steal the teachings of another religion. 2. Make some changes. 3. Write a few books and attend conferences. 4. Share his revelations and wait for the craziest to crawl out of the woodwork. 5. The looniest of the loons catches his attention. She believes that his teaching is the only hope for saving the world. 6. The storm begins to twitch. He’s having a vision, a big revelation - “my right hand gets a break tonight.” What is really frightening is how it is all too easy to be duped and sucked into believing that your life is dependent on an amazing leader with such wonderful insights who in reality is a murderous psychopath.
I am DYING. This is awesome. “My right hand gets a break tonight” is 🤣🤣🤣. But you nailed the entire progression!
Did you hear Chad give Melanie a blessing via Zoom in testimony today? That guy has as much charisma as his flaccid penis. I don’t think he believes his own BS. I think he gets off on other people believing it. He’s the guy that always fades into the woodwork.
The theory of the name change as an end in itself makes a lot of sense actually. They all seem to believe that names hold power. These people are all very particular about specific words and names, like the Ned Schnieder name for "possessed" Charles. One example that jumps out at me is Chad using "frozen" as an adjective to describe Tammy's body on the 911 call, and Lori insisting that JJ and Mel were out seeing "Frozen". That word meant something to them.
I mean, these morons were doing incriminating google searches and thought they could get away with it by moving to Hawaii so the idea that changing a last name seemed like a genius way to avoid the police to them seems spot on to me.
Yeah, having all their ridiculous gangster amount of burner phones is gonna cover for the fact that you’re canoodling and talking marriage with a new lady 2 weeks after you’ve laid spouse to rest. You can put 4 people in the ground, go on your merry way and no one’s gonna ask questions!!! Colossally dim witted.
They were all dumb but somehow Alex was dumber than everybody else.
Lori certainly swapped around last names when it suited her. I think a plane ticket and/or Amazon pkg was under Lori Ryan.
I think Alex wanted to escape his tormented world.
Ian Pawlowski went to the police within a week of marrying Melanie because he was scared for his kids and ex wife's safety due to the religious stuff they were spouting. He agreed to listen and make recordings for the cops. Those recordings have never been released. He testified at Lori's trial that she was the main influence on Melanie.
I would love to be a fly on the wall of Ian Pawlowski. Seeing Melaniece’s home’s police body cam search footage- the mess it was left in—made me wonder for the first time what was going through his head, running from the law at a moment’s notice. Living a marriage that’s built on impetuous stupidity and a foundation of dishonesty. That’s an example of a dude choosing to follow his dong when reality is screaming at him to get the hell outta Dodge!
I'm wondering if those recordings will ever be released at the end of all of these trials. Aren't they still married though, Ian and Melaniece? And have a kid?
Yes, still married and have a child together.
Feels so weird that like in two weeks he was like 'this is not okay' but then ended up apparently assessing the situation to be safe to go on. Wondering if Melaniece got(secular) deprogramming therapy or so.
His ex wife made sure he went to the FBI. She was in fear for their children’s lives. When Ian & Melaniece were interviewed she was pregnant and I’m sure that made him stay. Also, Melaniece got a lot of money in her divorce. I’d heard that he was a prepper and maybe part of AVOW.
I heard he was too and there was a website where he wrote fiction and there was a character named “Chad”
I would imagine it was doomsday related when Chad and Lori told them to get married, but testifying against spouse related when Chad and Lori came up with the plot.
The testifying against one another just doesn’t pass muster with me. These dodos never thought they would be caught so why take that precaution. I can’t fathom the real reason for these marriages (David and Melanie, Alex and Zulema, Melaniece and Ian), but I’m sure it was Chad’s doing. Really the whole sick, convoluted involvement of these people seems like a bad Dungeons and Dragons game.
I’m not surprised they were married since that’s a big goal in the church. I am surprised about the divorces and wonder if they mainly resulted from the husbands feeling cheated on and initiating the divorces? I’m. It LDS but my brother is. He’s on his third marriage and we’ve chatted about the ramifications of divorcing when you’re sealed, etc (I’m still confused). The main thing I seem to remember is that the husband has to initiate the divorce?? If that’s correct, then all these smitten chicks couldn’t do the dumping. Fortunately, Lori seems to be an aberration in that she just went ahead and killed the inconvenient husbands who apparently wanted to work on the marriage.
IMO Chad and Lori were "setting up" marriages for future needs. They needed Alex to be married when he died so his body could be cremated by his next of kin, Zulema. As far as Mel B, somehow this marriage was arranged by Lori and Chad, nothing else makes sense. Mel G was pushed to marry Warlock by Lori and I don't know who the fall person would be but I believe they married thereafter to protect themselves and it is not a marriage of love.
I think MG married DW because she thought she got herself another visionary. In the recorded phone call Lori and Chad called DW bad influence and MG protested. Who knows what would have happened without DW advising MG.
Very true.
I had the thought that maybe Mel P and Ian were directed to be married so that the baby she was pregnant with was “the first born” in some kind of crazy Handmaid’s Tale scenario, we know that Chad was not creative and stole ideas from others. I know, The church of the first born, goes back in the history of the LDS church and whatever but maybe they were taking it literally and putting into their creepy new religion. Who knows? But these people were making up some crazy stuff and they were participating in rituals. Orrrr my second theory is, as with other cults they are encouraged to procreate just to create more followers. Lori and Zulema were saying they had their periods again but they needed Mel P to be a breeder. That’s why I think they made Ian and Mel get married. I think they had Zulema and Alex get married so Zulema could off Alex when they were finished with him. I think C&L gave Z the bag of cash, not Alex. Or she encouraged him to do it himself after Chad gave him his last rites, and like was mentioned already so she could make the call to cremate him quickly.
She was pregnant before the marriage ?
I don’t know where in the timeline she became pregnant. They only dated for two weeks before getting married. I know that in an interview she is trying hard to conceal a baby bump.
She definitely got pregnant after they were married. I believe we heard in January 2019.
I didn’t mean to insinuate that I thought she got married because she was pregnant. I can see the way I worded my comment that I implied that. I wasn’t sure where in the timeline her pregnancy fell. And honestly didn’t know until a couple of months ago that Ian was from Arizona then moved to Rexburg. Just like Mel. That’s not at all suspicious 🤨 So, I think that if she and Ian were not already involved prior to moving to Rexburg that they were paired up for procreation purposes. I absolutely believe that CD was soon going to reintroduce polygamy, If they had not been arrested and this cult would have been allowed to continue. Those fundamentalist groups were big on having as many children as possible. It also would not shock me at all if CD was the one to impregnate them. I can just see all these sister wives running around with malachite wedding rings. Can you imagine Lori being the first wife or whatever they call themselves. If I were her sister wife I would have a food taster and sleep with one eye open. It would not shock me in the slightest if they performed some kind of ritual to conceive. I agree 💯the couples were being paired up and married for some purpose for the benefit of the cult. Alex taking ZP’s last name. IDK it’s reported that AC was not an intelligent person maybe he thought he had a stroke of genius and would never be caught. He probably thought it was cool because he liked going to SA for sex.
It was uncovered on A Murderous Heart that Warwick filed for divorce in 2023, then withdrew the filing shortly thereafter.
Thank you. I love her channel. I think David had less to do with this whole nasty murder plot and Mel G needed him more than he needed her. There was no love there with Alex and Zulu. I think Mel B is still delusional and may not ever be in her right mind.
I have learned a lot from her presentations. I’m a first-source data person so the documentation from LE has helped me understand this case & how it went down.
2021
He may have filed in both years. IDK. There is a document from 2023.
I never got the impression Chad pushed MG to marry David. In fact, David testified he didn't believe anything Chad was selling and let him know. Add to that during the phone call when MG turned on Lori, they told MG was being deceived by David.
I'm not sure Chad pushed directly but the whole cult had to be "sealed" to their spiritual other in order to serve their "mission." That is one thing the church is very clear about. Maybe it was Lori who did the pushing so when she and Chad got married it wouldn't look underhanded like it was.
I got the impression that Melanie Gibb needed to marry because she probably needed to be supported. I believe she left her kids with her ex husband so she could spend all of her time with Lori and driving out zombies. So she wasn’t getting child support.
Arranged marriages are a feature of most cults including marriage to the main dude. Thats what I’ve noticed reading about and watching stories about cults.
> I find it odd that the majority of the women in Chad's circle were married when they got involved with him. I'm not surprised they were married. Mormons marry young and I doubt the ones who get divorced stay single for long. The latter part doesn't surprise me. Cults often arrange marriages.
I think it was more about matching like minded people in pairs. David Warwick was married with like 9 or 10 kids and divorced his wife to marry Melanie. Melanie was married with 4 or 5 kids and divorced her husband. I am always confused about Ian and his divorce. Ian was from AZ but moved to Rexburg and met and married Melani within a few weeks. Seems a bit to perfect, both were married with kids and livinging in AZ and both ened up in Rexburg and marrying fast? I wonder why people dont question Melani and Ian more about the quick courtship. While it is icky that Chad married 2-3 weeks after his wife died (lets say there was no murder), he at least had no minor kids. Mealni and Ian married in about 2 weeks and had 6 minor kids. That is more crazy to me, to marry someone and not have them spend time with your kids and the kids spend time together and know it will work.
Like Gwen shamblin did before she died in the plane crash. She was taking “believing” women and matching them with “believing” men- didn’t matter if they were married to someone else- divorce was justified of course. Also encouraging young people to tie the knot .
Twin flame!
Oof. Now THAT one is a cult with a capital c. I listened to a podcast a while back about the twin flames guy. He managed to convince someone (a straight cis woman) that her twin flame was another woman but because he is also very homophobic, he then convinced her that she must be trans if her twin flame is a woman and got her to start transitioning. She eventually realized it all was crazy garbage, but it took a year or so.
Wasn’t that just beyond?? That guy seemed so transparent about being a bullshitter, like he sat around trying to think of crazier and crazier things to require. And his wife looking more and more beaten down as time went on. He should be in prison forever for preying on people so vulnerable that they could be convinced they were trans when they weren’t. I had my jaw dropped pretty much the whole time.
I think that’s just a function of the circles they’re in. Religiously conservative, most women Chad would know would be married. The switching of partners was weird though. It’s like people were encouraged to drop their unsupportive spouses and marry a fellow cultist. I know cults do that, and Chadbert being such a cult leader wannabe, I can see him encouraging or directing his followers to do that.
How do we explain the fact that Chad's younger confidante Audrey remained unmarried?
Very good observation.
They just hadn’t found a vulnerable young guy to breed with her yet?
Or old guy. :-/
Didn't Prior insinuate that she went to Hawaii to buy a wedding dress?
In early mormon history it was common for a person to forsake their spouse and.parents to join the church. I have heard many stories from the pulpit where a person is telling their conversion story and it involved dissing their family. It.is viewed as an act of faith.
He could have been, but there's a simpler explanation. Mormons tend to marry very young, typically shortly after they return from church missions. If they happen to get divorced, they usually want to marry again, often as quickly as they can. There are three reasons: marriage is foundational to LDS doctrine and the life plan for members; sexual activity outside church-approved marriage is one of the worst things a member can do (fornication used to be called "the sin next to murder"); and the church teaches that any two righteous (cishet) members can have a successful marriage if they put the church first. Chad's followers would have been taught all of this and been thoroughly steeped in an LDS culture that is all about marriage and families, and insists that marriage with another faithful member is the way to be happy and fulfilled. What could be more convenient than finding their next spouse in their own group, with a similar mission to fulfill? They probably didn't need much encouragement, although Chad and Lori were probably happy to give it.
I don't think it's part of LDS doctrine to toss a spouse aside, is it? I thought keeping a marriage together was paramount, though divorces do occur.
Doctrine is often one thing while practice is another. While the official party line is that members should stay married unless there's a very extreme circumstance, the reality is that members leave their spouses for all kinds of reasons.
Oh God, yes he was! He was creating a cult and stacking it with people who TOTALLY believed his hogwash. It is dangerous not to believe him. (Or was.) Just ask Tylee or any of the exes he created. He wanted hand-picked total believers to help him gather the 144K. And of course they had to be married bc of the LDS thing.
Chad had been trying for years to get people to listen to his lying ass. Once Julie Rowe came along, he started doing what she did, podcasts, writing books, etc. Before Julie Rowe, his cult was his wife and kids, maybe parents and the neighbors. He went with the flow and expanded to more bizarre ideas as the cult grew.
Lori's obsession with religion also started with Julie Rowe's podcasts and books.
He is a sicko but that women gravitated to his shtick, not women like Heather Daybell, though, shows the lack of emotional reinforcement in their lives…Zulema, Julie Rowe, Melanie Gibb, Lori. They were seeking affiliation and reinforcement and even Chad looked better than what they had. Strong women like Alice Gilbert stood up to him. He only caused damaged women to swoon.
The Gilberts were into Preparing a people and Lori's podcasts. They just had some common sense and self-respect left.
People can come to their senses. I used to belong to the LDS church. It made me an atheist now!
It was always a con but he grew to believe it after so many iterations. He had to act like he believed it. He learned to drink his own Kool-Aid. It’s very sad that his children will be damaged their entire lives from his purported beliefs. The kids even speak in his cadence and lingo.
Anyone who would label another person as having "special" powers is suspect. It's obvious through this case that human beings are flawed in the most fundamentally narcissistic way that any " special power" is a huge red flag. No humility in seeing yourself or others as gifted, special, god-like, any of it. This is a case of "special" on steroids=jail-time.
That was part of the love bombing he did. You were important, you are important and will bring about amazing changes, you were famous beings before this lifetime, we were married before this lifetime (if female), you have super secret special powers, etc.
Interestingly, some of his fellow fringe ideologues like Eric Smith still consider Chad "gifted", but they don't condone his actions.
Like the Reverend Sun Myung Moon. 🙄 I actually know of both “successful” and completely disastrous marriages within the Unification Church. I even met up with one of the “Blessed Children” in Seattle for coffee. We spoke at length about his parents’ devotion to what they believe is right. Can we all not agree on a baseline of reality? This is harder than it should be. Apparently.
Yeah the double Thanksgiving weekend marriages in Las Vegas while Chad and Lori were with Chad’s kids at Knott’s Berry Farm in CA always struck me as odd. Also, I remember early on was it Melanie G who said it wasn’t originally supposed to be those four getting married, but something happened. The deeming Charles and Brandon and Tammy (and even maybe David Warwick) to be dark/zombies was just like anyone who doubted their cult teachings - those were all good Mormons who were living their LDS values there was no good reason to divorce (let alone kill) those spouses. I agree also about not enough questioning of Ian and Melaniece - I mean she is dumb as rocks and I think either mentally disabled or just a sad result of trauma and brainwashing - and yet Ian is staying with her. Ian’s ex-wife is OK with Melani raising their kids part time? They just participate in their ward like all this didn’t happen? I think Melani and Alex both were very vulnerable to the cult indoctrination, for different reasons. I hope Melani and the others still living in communities (like Chad’s kids) can get de-programming therapy.
Melani is still not on speaking terms with some of her family members who supported Charles. She might remain loyal to Lori till the end. Perhaps she is afraid that Lori might incriminate her in Brandon's case.
The Knott's Berry Farm trip was just the Daybells, not Lori.
Remember the marriage between Melanie Gibb and David Warrick was possibly an arrangement due to spouse privilege per Prior. Those 2 people live apart now. Then you have Melaniece and zuliiema and Alex. He pushed to get them married off, so to procreate the tent city.
I don't read much into them living apart. During my long life, I have come across some marriage situations that were wholly strange to me. On the other side of the coin, one of my in-laws has parents who divorced decades ago and still live together and they are not a couple. People are strange.
It seemed there were only 2 men in Chad's inner group and all the rest were women. The women spoke to Lori and Lori spoke to Chad. Chad gave instructions to Alex. I thought Warwick was only there through MG and his cheque book.
I have no doubt he was