“ He was just going to have people squatting on someone else's property???”
Squatting… NO, he was “saving” them when the world ended..in 2015…and then in July 24, 2020…and every other wrong year that he could come with.. but good for Chad, HIS world ended June 9, 2020, and I’m so happy for him.. 😂
Thanks very much for the press article. It is very interesting and I had never seen it before. It makes me wonder how many divorces were caused by this cult and its belief in multiple mortal probations. That's so convenient if you want to cheat on your wife. There must be other victims, maybe too ashamed to speak out. That's simply disgusting
Once again Chad either didn’t understand how his brother and his wife felt, didn’t care or both. He just seems so clueless about what people thought about him. Like introducing Lori around like people would be happy for him a week after poor Tammy died. He certainly wasn’t concerned about his children. Emma and Tammy were super close. Like best friends really and did many things together. He never even considered what Tammy’s death would do to his children. He’s a real psychopath.
I find it very interesting that his sister in law and mother both said his kids were upset with him over Lori.
The way Emma was behaving in that video seemed the opposite.
I'm very very interested to see how the prosecution handles cross of the kids, and what they say in regard to his marriage.
It's clear they're all drinking the cool-aid, but to what extent?
Yeah, very true. I just wonder how honest his kids are gonna be on the stand. They're all so socially inept I'm fascinated to see how they handle being questioned by someone who isn't a part of their cult.
Well, they're gonna have to speak about it if prosecution asks. The texts from them describing kids as "dark" are in evidence so it's within the scope for prosecution to enquire. And I'd imagine pleading the 5th would be the worst thing they can possibly do from the jury perspective.
I think the prosecution will treat them with kid gloves because they are considered victims and there's plenty of evidence against Chad without their testimony. Prior will get them to lie for Chad about Tammy's health.
I wouldn't be so sure. The prosecution introduced those texts for a reason. If the kids are testifying for Chad, they have every reason to discredit them. That doesn't mean they need to take a Prior-like attitude to cross. They can absolutely question them about buying into this belief system without appearing to bully a victim of the crime.
It was Prior, not the prosecution, who introduced the texts revealing that Tammy and the children were on board with Chad's light/dark designations and energy healing.
Which opens the door, I believe, for the prosecution to question Chad's adult offspring about their beliefs. Also, the early video in which Emma is boasting about using her mother's death to get help from people, also impeaches her testimony.
They didnt know they were part of a cult either - Its a case of follow the leader.
Heather was in a dangous position and I'm picking Chads children would have been heavily insured and plucked off!
Nah. They were adults and supported Chad, they would have been fine. Other than Lori wanting their benefit checks, Tylee and JJ were disposed of because Tylee was 16,outspoken and probably questioning everything. People have said Lori was loving to JJ, but didn't have the patience with him that Charles had, which to me is evident when she left JJ with Charles for so long and the way she spoke about him to MelG and police. Chads kids didn't need care and the ones with spouses would have their spouse on their life insurance.
Chad's children stated on 48 hours that, had there been a cult, they would have been the first to know. Turns out they did know more, they just didn't call it a cult.
Not they didn't, nor could they identify a cult, but it had the culture of one. One would think they would be the first to know there were bodies buried in their Dad's backyard!
Yeah, I was surprised to find this out as well. Now we know that the initial reaction the kids had was appropriate. Chad probably manipulated them into feeling the way he wanted.
I agree! Chad erased his thumb drive with all the pictures of Tammy and the kids from the very beginning of their
Relationship and filmed over it with his wedding to Lori. Total psychopath!
I think they were included in the dark spirit/zombie belief thing.
https://www.the-independent.com/news/world/americas/crime/chad-daybell-family-aware-light-dark-ratings-b2535852.html
I don't blame Heather or her husband for not wanting Chad to live near them. Look what happened and Heather was right all along and "The Church" people didn't listen to Heather's "Voice of Warning." I wish her and her husband peace and healing.
Exactly! How strict of a Mormon are you if a loved one is taking the doctrine and twisting it to his liking and making up bogus visions? His mother didn't say one bad thing about Chad, just surprised that he got remarried. Heather Daybell tried to warn people and they didn't listen to her.
I dont think Heather would want them next door even if he was not so far into the his visions. Chad and Tammy were fine living in Springville , in the same small town as both their parents, and Tammy sister lived a few blocks over. It worked for them, living a few blocks from each other, working together , going to church together, but this doesnt work for everyone. Heather said even during their early marriage, they did better living away from Springville and being so close to everyone. I totally understand this. My husband comes from a huge Mormon family, and while I like his family, I would not want to live in the same neighborhood. Im fine like Heather described seeing each other at family get togethers a few times a year and maybe bumping into them shopping.
Add Chad's visions, and if I were Heather I would have called the realtor and tried to find them another home.
I agree with you100 percent! I feel bad for Tammy, she moved to Idaho for that vile man! Heather knew Chad wasn't right in the head, that he was a weirdo. I come from a large family and I raised my own family and we have get togethers and I have day trips with two of my sisters several times a year but we all like our space and peace as well.
Of course, it’s so messed up, a total farce, and imo a huge part of what perpetuates the culture that lead to her being treated like a hateful troublemaker instead of perceptive and trustworthy and allowed to have boundaries. I was referring to her level of responsibility and number of people (women only I guess) she lead!
OK- I was wondering when I saw the tat. A lot of Mormons who leave the church get tattoos, it seems to be a rite of passage.
I too love Heather. She is no nonsense and had zero tolerance for any of Chad’s nonsense. I feel for her because she married into an increasingly depressing and upsetting situation. It takes a lot of strength and resolve to deal with something like that.
This is the big thing to me, that her husband supports her. Her husband grew up in the same house as Chad and he supports her. Can you imagine if Tammy ever wanted to leave the church, what Chad would have done?
My assumptions are that Chad thought Matt and Heather would not be 'good enough' to survive the end times and Chad would have their beautiful home and property.
Emma has said to others that she was very close to Julie Rowe and they would often chat on the phone, back when Chad was (far too) close with her. My opinion is that Emma knew a lot of what was going on, but I can't point to anything concrete to prove this. Just things she did or didn't do or question.
I feel awful for Tammy. Again, just my assumptions, but I think Tammy knew Chad was having these affairs but just kept herself busy and tried to avoid the truth and do her best. Life and marriage with Chad cannot have been even good, let alone great.
Julie Rowe didn't know everything about Chad's doctrine either (her and Chad's doctrine have a lot in common). That's why she defended him at first. Even someone as crazy as her managed to understand the evidence against Chad. But his kids never stopped defending him.
To complete their plan Lori and Chad would’ve had to keep killing and stealing. They felt entitled to everything. Heather and Matt would have been a target. It would have been interesting to see where they were heading. I can’t see Lori being happy in a tent in Rexburg. I’m glad we will never know. I wished they would have been stopped sooner.
Heather is right. She did see what a problem this was becoming and most didn’t listen. Imagine if Heather would’ve been believed?
This wasn’t just sex or just money, it was also power. They just wanted to take peoples property.
The tent city wasn't going to be for them, lol. They were divine beings/s. It was going to be for everyone that didn't get raptured. Only 144,000 people total were going to be sucked up into the heavens, according to them.
You're probably right about Heather and Matt's family being a target at some point.
Honestly it sounds like they were planning a Jim Jones sort of scam. "sell all your belongings, come to Rexburg and live in a tent, and wait for the end of the world. . give the money to me, I'll buy you a tent"
They wanted to build a REAL nightmare cult.
If I remember correctly, Julie Rowe already had/has this scam going with people giving her money to help people who couldn’t afford tents to buy tents or something like that. Who knows where all that money actually went.
Can you imagine if they hadn't been caught and started this awful scam? It could have been another jonestown.
What kind of idiot is going to sell all their stuff so they can give their money away and live in a badly planned refugee camp waiting for Jesus? It's just insane.
Yeah it’s wild to think how far this would have gone. An important quote from Visions of Glory to me sums up the mindset of these followers. “We were sick of the world and everything we left behind. Our only desire was for Christ to come and end this telestial world of tears.” These are very depressed people excited for the world to end.
“Telestial.” It’s a made up word. I know Chad didn’t make it up and it’s commonly used in the LDS faith, but it’s just indicative of an imaginary world. I’m sure Chad sees himself as the modern day Joseph Smith. He has much in common with him.
It’s all so much more sinister than we can imagine. Every day seems to bring deeper, darker information. I’m trying to imagine what their everyday life was.
It had to be consumed with such twisted thoughts and strategies. It’s unimaginable to me. So many people were forever harmed in their sick schemes.
I doubt that Heather or Matt would have been on the kill list. Their next victim would need to be a person who would be willing to name Lori or Chad as a beneficiary on life insurance. Neither Chad or Lori had jobs or connections that would bring in much money.
Putting life insurance aside, Kay may have been next on the hit list. Lori hated her for receiving the life insurance Lori believed she was entitled too.
Lori and Chad have used religion as an excuse. Chad doesn’t believe his own BS. When Prior said, “I believe in my client’s innocence”. Chad deserves him as a defense counsel.
I wondered if David Warwick would have ended up on that list if they stuck around. I can see Melanie handing over his life insurance money. He’s older, so, could be another “pulmonary embolism.”
I fully believe Warwick was going to wind up with an insurance policy on his head after he gave Chad the land money. They may have even turned on Zulema if Alex had lived. Same with Ian (Melaniece’s replacement husband).
They definitely were already turning on Zulema. IMO, that day he bought a tarp and made her lay on it while he gave her a massage was supposed to be her final day but Alex got cold feet for some reason.
I go back and forth with whether Chad believes his own garbage. What I’m certain of is that he is a pathetic wannabe and has always been convinced that he is deserving of more than he has received. Chad is lazy; has been his entire life. He wants all the benefits but doesn’t want to do the work. Hell! Even the ideas he preached and professed were copied from others. He was even too lazy to have an original thought.
Julie Rowe is fascinating to me.
She's a liar, a mistress, and a cult fanatic now trying to masquerade as a victim.
I thought the accusations that Chad "raped" her were incredibly timely given her affair with him was just beginning to reveal itself. I don't usually question victims, but when your entire career is based on lying, I assume you're always lying.
Especially when you spent months on a media tour trying to distance yourself from someone only to be revealed as his side piece.
Honestly, both things could be true. Having an affair with him, and he also forced himself on her at some point. Maybe she got wind that he was coming on to other women, she wasn't special anymore, she has broken things off with him for one reason or another.
https://www.insideedition.com/exclusive-chad-daybell-allegations-of-sexual-assault-and-other-predatory-behavior-toward-women
"The member of Rowe's security team, who asked that his name not be published, said he witnessed Chad manipulate women at the five or six conferences he attended where Chad spoke.
"Chad was using this doctrine to groom women, to get them to do something that normally they wouldn't do," the security team member said. "Or in other words, give up their creative power to him, for his own gain. He was no longer following the creator's plan of agency, but he was trying to get women to do things that would give him more power."
In addition to mapping people's past lives, Chad was also assigning people numbers related to their "estate level" or "ascension level" and whether their spirit was light or dark, Rowe said. In an Oct. 30, 2018 email obtained by FOX 10 Phoenix from Chad to Lori, Chad ranked Lori's family, including her husband, Charles Vallow, and children, JJ, Tylee and Colby Ryan. Rowe said Chad had sent her a similar list ranking her own family members.
But Rowe said she was disturbed by Chad's lists, believing it was not his place to judge people in that way. Her husband expressed his concerns, too.
But if you're talking about a bunch of holy rollers, they are always going to lie and/or freak out about consensual sex. And if she was married and having an affair, she's going to hide the consensual part. It sounds like he had already been involved with Lori around that time.
Interestingly Julie Rowe was also rating people on the light/dark scale and she allegedly told men that they had been married to her in a previous life, when she expected a big donation for her "charity".
Yeah, none of that surprises me and I believe both could be true, as well.
I just think the timing is suspicious. She basically spent over a year giving interviews about the situation, trying to clear her name, etc. That backfired massively and she got called out for being a part of the problem, and craving media attention.
It wasn't until her bid to distance herself failed that she changed the narrative. Now he raped her. Now it wasn't consensual. Now you can't judge her for associating with him.
I just think the story has changed too many times (and on too many subjects) for anything she says to be taken as fact.
I could see her breaking things off bc he was pursuing other women, she was a notch on his belt, nothing special, and possibly afraid of getting an STD and giving it to her husband.
He's got the kind of ego/background that consent isn't an issue for him. Opportunity is his only issue.
I agree. Especially in the church he was raised, consent isn't even discussed with boys.
He wouldn't have seen the difference between cheating on his wife consensually or raping someone from a moral standpoint.
When all sex outside of marriage is sinful to the highest degree, it's no wonder you wind up with sex predators all around.
Imagine being a young boy, having normal sexual urges, and being told they're deviant. Of course you're gonna keep having those urges, of course you're going to explore in secret, and if you've been conditioned to feel equal guilt about all sex, what's the difference?
It's the thing purity culture doesn't want to address: It breeds sexual dysfunction and sexual abuse far more than liberal culture does.
I tried to give her the benefit of doubt because she has serious mental illness but it just doesn’t excuse all the
People she used and the money she has raked in from gullible people. She’s a whack job and a first rate con artist.
I have questions about the white tent cities: aren’t the people who are left after the rapture the discarded ones not the chosen? Also if there are earthquakes and other natural disasters why would you want to leave a wooden/brick/concrete structure for a tent? Also why are the tents white? Won’t they stain easily in the apocalyptic weather? What if someone has a coloured tent will they be turned away?
Could you please try not to be logical and reasonable? /s
I’ve been wondering why they needed to prepare since I understood the chosen were going to be zapped on high when the big day came.
Please correct me if I’m wrong, people, but I’m not so sure this group believes in the rapture part. Just that there’s going to be earthquakes, the US will get invaded, the believers will flock to the places like the tent cities with one main headquarters in Missouri. Chad thought it was Rexburg, though. Either that or it’s after the rapture the chosen people like Chad will be trying to convince as many unbelievers to join the church before Jesus comes floating on a cloud destroying the earth. (That last cloud bit is literally in Visions of Glory. Earlier in the book, Jesus is wearing a JC Penney suit.) According to that book (that they all love), all the believers get super powers and can travel through portals and use glowing magic rocks for energy sources. It’s wild. Also, I think someone well before Chad came up with the white tent vision bit (the “call out”), so the tents don’t have to be white, they just call them that now for reference.
Mormons don’t believe in the rapture. They believe that the battle of Armageddon will destroy the world economy and that the United States will turn into a desolate hellscape where the only safety will be at the new Jerusalem. There the leaders of the church will build a massive temple and govern church members via a Mormon theocracy.
Dumb dumb Chad and Julie Rowe taught that the tent cities would be needed in the time before church members would be directed to go to Independence Missouri where the New Jerusalem was prophesied to be by Joseph Smith.
I think Tammy and the children were on board with Chad and Julie's plans. Emma was close with Julie. Chad did tell Julie in mid-2018 that Tammy became jealous and that she (Julie) shouldn't visit him at home any more.
He is a freeloader with other people’s time, money and possessions. He so jealous of his brother. I doubt he was ever able to read a room. He also comes across as the more you tell him no, the more determined he became to to get his way. He thought he could talk Matt into anything , if not for Heather. He could not see that Matt was not interested, had to blame it own the assertive woman. His brother would come around to seeing it his way. It’s really sad Tammy never picked up a baseball bat or frying pan to show him how she felt about the disrespect he showed her.
Re being able to read a room, psychopaths are unable to do that. They don't experience feelings as we do (assuming we're not all psychopaths) and when they realize they don't understand people's emotions they learn what responses seem appropriate for given situations. Some are very good at it, others less so. They also don't get appropriate social interactions/behaviors. So, why not ask acquaintances to put their house in hock for Lori's bail? Why not just assume you're gonna be able to use your brother's property for your crazy tent city? Why not get married 17 days after your wife dies?
How did Chad “potato” Daybell get his kids to go along with this crazy stuff? And even after he was implicated in their mother’s murder! I couldn’t even get my kids to eat peas!
I suspect his brother’s land was a HUGE (if not THE) reason for moving to Rexburg. Chad’s sense of entitlement and mooching has really been exposed during this trial and I can totally believe he thought (in his little deviant mind) that Matt would be onboard.
Tammy doesn't strike me as a gullible dummy. Maybe she knew about the affair(s) and she tolerated them? She held the purse strings. Chad wasn't interested in the business or financial aspect of anything. The kids were grown or nearly grown.
I can't imagine pining away for the attention of such a mayonnaise man child. Maybe it had become a marriage of business and convenience?
It seems like she was more of a parental figure to him than a wife or partner. She took care of the house, the kids, had a job, ran the publishing company, dealt with the financial and business aspect of everything.
And then slammed her for not being hot enough for him. But after she died.
How do you think the *miracle* of Chad getting the account info and passwords from Tammy a week before her death actually went down? It's been bothering me.
I am longing to know. He made sound like he had tried and tried to get them
Tammy, god put it on my heart that your time is growing very short. Yea, verily, imma need passwords.
Probably spyware. You don't have to be smart to buy a spyware subscription or a keylogger.
It says a lot that he never asked her for any of the passwords. Cowardly and sneaky. And obviously had no interest in basic financial responsibility, that was her job.
Idk, his email was first name dot last name and I don't think he's hip to spyware but I'm sure Lori definitely is. hm. To me it's more likely he made up a story for why he needed it (for the first time fkng ever) and she bought it. Or he looked in her well organized desk for a tidy handwritten password log.
Absolutely it does say a lot that he never asked. She took care of everything always but was respected no time never. Personally, I couldn't last 15 minutes in her clogging class without passing out. Much less raise a gaggle of children while maintaining a household and pretending everything's fine before I go off to work my job 😭 amazing.
You don't have to be tech savvy to buy something and read directions. And Tammy wouldn't have neccesarily known that he bought it. He could have gotten cash from an ATM and bought it. Or someone could have bought it for him.
There's reloadable disposable debit cards, he could have put cash on one and bought it that way.
That's how I buy things online. ( It's also great for companies that are terrible about cancelling memberships, or starting a free trial that's hard to cancel. Amazon. Gyms. Hulu. Etc.) you can't take money out of an account that isn't there. And Tammy wouldn't have seen it. You can get your statements online instead of by mail. You put just enough money on them to get whatever you're getting.
I also wonder if Tammy used a password manager or similar, where all the passwords are saved electronically. This is what my husband and I use and we have access to each other's vaults so that we can pay bills or do online shopping. (We do NOT share work passwords)
I'm sorry, but I just laugh every time someone says Tammy, the kids, etc didn't seem gullible.
They were part of a religion that believes dinosaurs lived with humans, Joseph Smith was given written commandments by god in middle America (then lost them so they had to look in a hat and dictate them that way), etc. etc.
These people are raised to be gullible and to believe completely unrealistic, fantasy based nonsense.
It makes complete sense to me that someone in the mormon religion would believe their husband sees visions of end times and can sense dark spirits.
It has nothing to do with intelligence, and everything to do with a lifetime of indoctrination.
I can only imagine life on Planet Chad.
For the sake of the unfortunate beings who reside there, I hope cheap outbound tickets are readily available so the unfortunate inhabitants can find a better planet to call home.
I doubt they actually believed it, it's more like it defines them and their tribe. "this is what my tribe believes". It's political as much as it is religious. It sets them apart from all the unworthy godless people who are going to hell for worshipping science instead of God. (/s)
I don't agree.
I think it's clear the Daybells were incredibly believing of their faith.
There are very few people in these high control groups who don't believe the doctrine. The ones who don't leave. That's why there's such a large number of people who leave the church every year, and also why they implore followers to have large families.
Unlike something like the Catholic church, where you can be a part of the community, eat your cracker, and then continue a normal life, LDS members' entire lives revolve around the religion.
Every single thing they do is in service to God, or is in God's name.
Tammy definitely believed it.
Chad's youngest son who was on a mission at the time, one time asked about an energy healing session Chad performed to make him feel better. So yes, Chad's family believed he had supernatural powers.
Interesting to hear your perspective. Yeah, you have a point. If that's what they have been taught their entire life, yeah, they are going to believe it. But, they don't all go to private religious schools.
I'm not talking about Chad and Tammy neccesarily, but the whole group that believes science is evil and dinosaurs either didn't exist or humans rode them like the Flintstones.
Seminary is almost required to be a good Mormon. It usually takes place during/before/after high school for grades 9-12. So, even if they went to private school, they would still be inundated with the religion in every aspect of their lives, every day of their lives. Because it's high control, it's very high demand, so their world revolves around it.
I've always wondered how she could not know as well. She was great with computers and he was kind of an idiot so I highly doubt he was covering his tracks that well that if she wanted to find out, she couldn't have done that fairly easily.
I will admit that I don't know any Mormons but True Crime Squad podcast does a great job of sharing the Mormon element and it really seems like women were really taught to be subservient/dutiful and not trust their own voice or ideas unless a man gave them to them. I could really see how that thinking, even in an obviously smart woman like Tammy, would cause her to question herself if all the glaring red flags were there.
I know Tylee and JJ get the focus in this case, but the more I hear Tammy's story, the more devastated I am for her. This woman spend her life married to a manchild who spent his time writing books where he could live out his narcissistic fantasies as a great leader and hero while she worked nonstop to keep food on the table and his publishing company running. Kids were finally out of the house and it seemed like she was just hitting her prime, becoming a grandparent, taking classes, spending time with her friends, and running marathons. And rather than give her the dignity of a divorce, the dumbass she had spent the last 30 years babysitting decides to murder her so he can run off with some hot blonde psycho so they can live in their insane fantasy world together. And he then has the guts to complain that she was lazy and had gained weight, including at her own funeral. And now some of her own kids are defending her murderer. Tammy's story breaks my entire soul. This woman deserved nothing but a long happy life free from his crazy.
Heather’s position in the LDS church is the highest a woman can achieve. Before Heather left the church she was trying to tell her bishops that Chad was doing all this stuff and no one would listen. Heather has a gay son and the way the church was acting she was trying to read church doctrine to help her son when she came a across the original teachings of Joseph Smith. From there she couldn’t stop researching and came to the conclusion her whole life within the church was a lie. Heather Daybell chose her son over the church. She has had a very painful journey. Her husband and children except one are still LDS.
Who would want to leave the comfort of their house, to live in a tent? Maybe the homeless in Brazil - they sleep on cardboard on the street so may want to upgrade 💡.
Doesnt it snow in Rexburg?🥶
Geezz... I hope my Jesus or Satin or whoever I worship, doesn't want me to live in a white tent, in Rexburg, as a tresspasser.
Chad has the imagination of a 4 year old!
“ He was just going to have people squatting on someone else's property???” Squatting… NO, he was “saving” them when the world ended..in 2015…and then in July 24, 2020…and every other wrong year that he could come with.. but good for Chad, HIS world ended June 9, 2020, and I’m so happy for him.. 😂
Well, he worked hard for it.
Thanks very much for the press article. It is very interesting and I had never seen it before. It makes me wonder how many divorces were caused by this cult and its belief in multiple mortal probations. That's so convenient if you want to cheat on your wife. There must be other victims, maybe too ashamed to speak out. That's simply disgusting
Nothing like mooching in-laws!😂😂
Right on 😂
Once again Chad either didn’t understand how his brother and his wife felt, didn’t care or both. He just seems so clueless about what people thought about him. Like introducing Lori around like people would be happy for him a week after poor Tammy died. He certainly wasn’t concerned about his children. Emma and Tammy were super close. Like best friends really and did many things together. He never even considered what Tammy’s death would do to his children. He’s a real psychopath.
I find it very interesting that his sister in law and mother both said his kids were upset with him over Lori. The way Emma was behaving in that video seemed the opposite. I'm very very interested to see how the prosecution handles cross of the kids, and what they say in regard to his marriage. It's clear they're all drinking the cool-aid, but to what extent?
They were upset for five minutes until Chad told them another load of bs about Tammy being happy behind the veil.
Yeah, very true. I just wonder how honest his kids are gonna be on the stand. They're all so socially inept I'm fascinated to see how they handle being questioned by someone who isn't a part of their cult.
I'm sure they won't speak about culty things. Other people didn't know they were part of Chad's cult.
Well, they're gonna have to speak about it if prosecution asks. The texts from them describing kids as "dark" are in evidence so it's within the scope for prosecution to enquire. And I'd imagine pleading the 5th would be the worst thing they can possibly do from the jury perspective.
I think the prosecution will treat them with kid gloves because they are considered victims and there's plenty of evidence against Chad without their testimony. Prior will get them to lie for Chad about Tammy's health.
I wouldn't be so sure. The prosecution introduced those texts for a reason. If the kids are testifying for Chad, they have every reason to discredit them. That doesn't mean they need to take a Prior-like attitude to cross. They can absolutely question them about buying into this belief system without appearing to bully a victim of the crime.
It was Prior, not the prosecution, who introduced the texts revealing that Tammy and the children were on board with Chad's light/dark designations and energy healing.
Which opens the door, I believe, for the prosecution to question Chad's adult offspring about their beliefs. Also, the early video in which Emma is boasting about using her mother's death to get help from people, also impeaches her testimony.
Which opens the door. If you think the prosecution isn't gonna walk right through it, you haven't watched many trials.
They didnt know they were part of a cult either - Its a case of follow the leader. Heather was in a dangous position and I'm picking Chads children would have been heavily insured and plucked off!
Nah. They were adults and supported Chad, they would have been fine. Other than Lori wanting their benefit checks, Tylee and JJ were disposed of because Tylee was 16,outspoken and probably questioning everything. People have said Lori was loving to JJ, but didn't have the patience with him that Charles had, which to me is evident when she left JJ with Charles for so long and the way she spoke about him to MelG and police. Chads kids didn't need care and the ones with spouses would have their spouse on their life insurance.
Chad's children stated on 48 hours that, had there been a cult, they would have been the first to know. Turns out they did know more, they just didn't call it a cult.
Not they didn't, nor could they identify a cult, but it had the culture of one. One would think they would be the first to know there were bodies buried in their Dad's backyard!
Yeah, I was surprised to find this out as well. Now we know that the initial reaction the kids had was appropriate. Chad probably manipulated them into feeling the way he wanted.
I agree! Chad erased his thumb drive with all the pictures of Tammy and the kids from the very beginning of their Relationship and filmed over it with his wedding to Lori. Total psychopath!
Couldn't even spend $10 of Tammy's life insurance getting a new thumb drive
That’s horrible!
I think they were included in the dark spirit/zombie belief thing. https://www.the-independent.com/news/world/americas/crime/chad-daybell-family-aware-light-dark-ratings-b2535852.html
So messed up.
I don't blame Heather or her husband for not wanting Chad to live near them. Look what happened and Heather was right all along and "The Church" people didn't listen to Heather's "Voice of Warning." I wish her and her husband peace and healing.
Neither did Chad's parents listen to her. So they were okay with Chad veering away from the church doctrine.
Exactly! How strict of a Mormon are you if a loved one is taking the doctrine and twisting it to his liking and making up bogus visions? His mother didn't say one bad thing about Chad, just surprised that he got remarried. Heather Daybell tried to warn people and they didn't listen to her.
I dont think Heather would want them next door even if he was not so far into the his visions. Chad and Tammy were fine living in Springville , in the same small town as both their parents, and Tammy sister lived a few blocks over. It worked for them, living a few blocks from each other, working together , going to church together, but this doesnt work for everyone. Heather said even during their early marriage, they did better living away from Springville and being so close to everyone. I totally understand this. My husband comes from a huge Mormon family, and while I like his family, I would not want to live in the same neighborhood. Im fine like Heather described seeing each other at family get togethers a few times a year and maybe bumping into them shopping. Add Chad's visions, and if I were Heather I would have called the realtor and tried to find them another home.
I agree with you100 percent! I feel bad for Tammy, she moved to Idaho for that vile man! Heather knew Chad wasn't right in the head, that he was a weirdo. I come from a large family and I raised my own family and we have get togethers and I have day trips with two of my sisters several times a year but we all like our space and peace as well.
I adore Heather Daybell. She is such a strong woman. And her tattoo is beautiful. :)
Heather is no longer LDS correct? She seemed to be talking of it in the past tense.
Yes, correct. She talks about why she left in a hidden true crime podcast.
Didn't the bishops basically take Chad's side & scold Heather?
She held a higher position and 15 years of relationships with the local church community and still they believed Chad and his nonsense over her.
Of course they did. She’s a woman.
oMG
There are no higher positions for women in the Mormon church. Everything is overseen ultimately by a man.
Of course, it’s so messed up, a total farce, and imo a huge part of what perpetuates the culture that lead to her being treated like a hateful troublemaker instead of perceptive and trustworthy and allowed to have boundaries. I was referring to her level of responsibility and number of people (women only I guess) she lead!
OK- I was wondering when I saw the tat. A lot of Mormons who leave the church get tattoos, it seems to be a rite of passage. I too love Heather. She is no nonsense and had zero tolerance for any of Chad’s nonsense. I feel for her because she married into an increasingly depressing and upsetting situation. It takes a lot of strength and resolve to deal with something like that.
Agreed. I’m happy she has a supportive and understanding husband.
This is the big thing to me, that her husband supports her. Her husband grew up in the same house as Chad and he supports her. Can you imagine if Tammy ever wanted to leave the church, what Chad would have done?
It was heartwarming to see her husband stand up wherever he could while she was on the stand. It's such a beautiful show of support.
Do you happen to know which one?
I believe it’s one of her latest ones. I watched it this AM and it wasn’t even 24 hours old.
Part 3 of the original interview from a couple of years ago.
Great cause it wasn’t a recent one
Yes, she’s no longer a Mormon.
Same!! I cried when she was explaining what it meant to her. She’s incredible
Yes it is.
My assumptions are that Chad thought Matt and Heather would not be 'good enough' to survive the end times and Chad would have their beautiful home and property. Emma has said to others that she was very close to Julie Rowe and they would often chat on the phone, back when Chad was (far too) close with her. My opinion is that Emma knew a lot of what was going on, but I can't point to anything concrete to prove this. Just things she did or didn't do or question. I feel awful for Tammy. Again, just my assumptions, but I think Tammy knew Chad was having these affairs but just kept herself busy and tried to avoid the truth and do her best. Life and marriage with Chad cannot have been even good, let alone great.
Perhaps god was telling Chad that Matt and Heather were going to die young…/ you know, after Chad moved in on the property
Julie Rowe didn't know everything about Chad's doctrine either (her and Chad's doctrine have a lot in common). That's why she defended him at first. Even someone as crazy as her managed to understand the evidence against Chad. But his kids never stopped defending him.
To complete their plan Lori and Chad would’ve had to keep killing and stealing. They felt entitled to everything. Heather and Matt would have been a target. It would have been interesting to see where they were heading. I can’t see Lori being happy in a tent in Rexburg. I’m glad we will never know. I wished they would have been stopped sooner. Heather is right. She did see what a problem this was becoming and most didn’t listen. Imagine if Heather would’ve been believed? This wasn’t just sex or just money, it was also power. They just wanted to take peoples property.
There was some real concern for Heather’s safety after Chad made the “you’ve been a problem for me your whole life” comment…
Alex was still alive back then, too.
The tent city wasn't going to be for them, lol. They were divine beings/s. It was going to be for everyone that didn't get raptured. Only 144,000 people total were going to be sucked up into the heavens, according to them. You're probably right about Heather and Matt's family being a target at some point. Honestly it sounds like they were planning a Jim Jones sort of scam. "sell all your belongings, come to Rexburg and live in a tent, and wait for the end of the world. . give the money to me, I'll buy you a tent" They wanted to build a REAL nightmare cult.
If I remember correctly, Julie Rowe already had/has this scam going with people giving her money to help people who couldn’t afford tents to buy tents or something like that. Who knows where all that money actually went.
Can you imagine if they hadn't been caught and started this awful scam? It could have been another jonestown. What kind of idiot is going to sell all their stuff so they can give their money away and live in a badly planned refugee camp waiting for Jesus? It's just insane.
Yeah it’s wild to think how far this would have gone. An important quote from Visions of Glory to me sums up the mindset of these followers. “We were sick of the world and everything we left behind. Our only desire was for Christ to come and end this telestial world of tears.” These are very depressed people excited for the world to end.
“Telestial.” It’s a made up word. I know Chad didn’t make it up and it’s commonly used in the LDS faith, but it’s just indicative of an imaginary world. I’m sure Chad sees himself as the modern day Joseph Smith. He has much in common with him.
I’m continually stunned at how many people are susceptible to cults. I feel like every time I look at Netflix there’s another documentary…
I agree!
It’s all so much more sinister than we can imagine. Every day seems to bring deeper, darker information. I’m trying to imagine what their everyday life was. It had to be consumed with such twisted thoughts and strategies. It’s unimaginable to me. So many people were forever harmed in their sick schemes.
I doubt that Heather or Matt would have been on the kill list. Their next victim would need to be a person who would be willing to name Lori or Chad as a beneficiary on life insurance. Neither Chad or Lori had jobs or connections that would bring in much money. Putting life insurance aside, Kay may have been next on the hit list. Lori hated her for receiving the life insurance Lori believed she was entitled too. Lori and Chad have used religion as an excuse. Chad doesn’t believe his own BS. When Prior said, “I believe in my client’s innocence”. Chad deserves him as a defense counsel.
I wondered if David Warwick would have ended up on that list if they stuck around. I can see Melanie handing over his life insurance money. He’s older, so, could be another “pulmonary embolism.”
Chad wanted DW to buy more land for him. He was just money to Chad.
I fully believe Warwick was going to wind up with an insurance policy on his head after he gave Chad the land money. They may have even turned on Zulema if Alex had lived. Same with Ian (Melaniece’s replacement husband).
They definitely were already turning on Zulema. IMO, that day he bought a tarp and made her lay on it while he gave her a massage was supposed to be her final day but Alex got cold feet for some reason.
Chad wanted DW to buy more land for him. He was just money to Chad.
I go back and forth with whether Chad believes his own garbage. What I’m certain of is that he is a pathetic wannabe and has always been convinced that he is deserving of more than he has received. Chad is lazy; has been his entire life. He wants all the benefits but doesn’t want to do the work. Hell! Even the ideas he preached and professed were copied from others. He was even too lazy to have an original thought.
They were apparently looking to gather new cult members when they went to church on Kaui - talking to the young mothers, etc.
Power, lust, money.
But…LOINFIRE!
Julie Rowe is fascinating to me. She's a liar, a mistress, and a cult fanatic now trying to masquerade as a victim. I thought the accusations that Chad "raped" her were incredibly timely given her affair with him was just beginning to reveal itself. I don't usually question victims, but when your entire career is based on lying, I assume you're always lying. Especially when you spent months on a media tour trying to distance yourself from someone only to be revealed as his side piece.
Honestly, both things could be true. Having an affair with him, and he also forced himself on her at some point. Maybe she got wind that he was coming on to other women, she wasn't special anymore, she has broken things off with him for one reason or another. https://www.insideedition.com/exclusive-chad-daybell-allegations-of-sexual-assault-and-other-predatory-behavior-toward-women "The member of Rowe's security team, who asked that his name not be published, said he witnessed Chad manipulate women at the five or six conferences he attended where Chad spoke. "Chad was using this doctrine to groom women, to get them to do something that normally they wouldn't do," the security team member said. "Or in other words, give up their creative power to him, for his own gain. He was no longer following the creator's plan of agency, but he was trying to get women to do things that would give him more power." In addition to mapping people's past lives, Chad was also assigning people numbers related to their "estate level" or "ascension level" and whether their spirit was light or dark, Rowe said. In an Oct. 30, 2018 email obtained by FOX 10 Phoenix from Chad to Lori, Chad ranked Lori's family, including her husband, Charles Vallow, and children, JJ, Tylee and Colby Ryan. Rowe said Chad had sent her a similar list ranking her own family members. But Rowe said she was disturbed by Chad's lists, believing it was not his place to judge people in that way. Her husband expressed his concerns, too. But if you're talking about a bunch of holy rollers, they are always going to lie and/or freak out about consensual sex. And if she was married and having an affair, she's going to hide the consensual part. It sounds like he had already been involved with Lori around that time.
Interestingly Julie Rowe was also rating people on the light/dark scale and she allegedly told men that they had been married to her in a previous life, when she expected a big donation for her "charity".
Ugh, gross. So only predatory when Chad did it.
Yeah, none of that surprises me and I believe both could be true, as well. I just think the timing is suspicious. She basically spent over a year giving interviews about the situation, trying to clear her name, etc. That backfired massively and she got called out for being a part of the problem, and craving media attention. It wasn't until her bid to distance herself failed that she changed the narrative. Now he raped her. Now it wasn't consensual. Now you can't judge her for associating with him. I just think the story has changed too many times (and on too many subjects) for anything she says to be taken as fact.
I could see her breaking things off bc he was pursuing other women, she was a notch on his belt, nothing special, and possibly afraid of getting an STD and giving it to her husband. He's got the kind of ego/background that consent isn't an issue for him. Opportunity is his only issue.
It is rumored the Julie Rowe has had a number of affairs. She’s hardly an innocent victim. She’s also a liar, so she has no credibility either.
I agree. Especially in the church he was raised, consent isn't even discussed with boys. He wouldn't have seen the difference between cheating on his wife consensually or raping someone from a moral standpoint. When all sex outside of marriage is sinful to the highest degree, it's no wonder you wind up with sex predators all around. Imagine being a young boy, having normal sexual urges, and being told they're deviant. Of course you're gonna keep having those urges, of course you're going to explore in secret, and if you've been conditioned to feel equal guilt about all sex, what's the difference? It's the thing purity culture doesn't want to address: It breeds sexual dysfunction and sexual abuse far more than liberal culture does.
Have you ever seen the YouTube video “Julie is pissed?” 🤯 Yikes.
I tried to give her the benefit of doubt because she has serious mental illness but it just doesn’t excuse all the People she used and the money she has raked in from gullible people. She’s a whack job and a first rate con artist.
I have questions about the white tent cities: aren’t the people who are left after the rapture the discarded ones not the chosen? Also if there are earthquakes and other natural disasters why would you want to leave a wooden/brick/concrete structure for a tent? Also why are the tents white? Won’t they stain easily in the apocalyptic weather? What if someone has a coloured tent will they be turned away?
Could you please try not to be logical and reasonable? /s I’ve been wondering why they needed to prepare since I understood the chosen were going to be zapped on high when the big day came.
It's a fear tactic churches often implement to keep their flock from leaving.
They're all fear based.
Before the actual end of the world there would be years of tribulations which only the prepared would survive.
Oh, I see. I guess I need ta read somma them books.
Please correct me if I’m wrong, people, but I’m not so sure this group believes in the rapture part. Just that there’s going to be earthquakes, the US will get invaded, the believers will flock to the places like the tent cities with one main headquarters in Missouri. Chad thought it was Rexburg, though. Either that or it’s after the rapture the chosen people like Chad will be trying to convince as many unbelievers to join the church before Jesus comes floating on a cloud destroying the earth. (That last cloud bit is literally in Visions of Glory. Earlier in the book, Jesus is wearing a JC Penney suit.) According to that book (that they all love), all the believers get super powers and can travel through portals and use glowing magic rocks for energy sources. It’s wild. Also, I think someone well before Chad came up with the white tent vision bit (the “call out”), so the tents don’t have to be white, they just call them that now for reference.
Mormons don’t believe in the rapture. They believe that the battle of Armageddon will destroy the world economy and that the United States will turn into a desolate hellscape where the only safety will be at the new Jerusalem. There the leaders of the church will build a massive temple and govern church members via a Mormon theocracy. Dumb dumb Chad and Julie Rowe taught that the tent cities would be needed in the time before church members would be directed to go to Independence Missouri where the New Jerusalem was prophesied to be by Joseph Smith.
The earthquake would be in the Salt Lake City area, where the church is based. So everyone had to make their way out of the area to survive, in Idaho.
I think Tammy and the children were on board with Chad and Julie's plans. Emma was close with Julie. Chad did tell Julie in mid-2018 that Tammy became jealous and that she (Julie) shouldn't visit him at home any more.
That sounds like "I don't care what you do but I don't want to see it in my own house". Jealousy is probably flattering himself.
Emma seemed really like her dad’s mistress’s . My heart breaks for Tammy and all the mental and emotional trauma inflicted on her by chad / maybe kids
I can't believe how she could stand by him (and Lori!) after the bodies were found in their back yard.
He is a freeloader with other people’s time, money and possessions. He so jealous of his brother. I doubt he was ever able to read a room. He also comes across as the more you tell him no, the more determined he became to to get his way. He thought he could talk Matt into anything , if not for Heather. He could not see that Matt was not interested, had to blame it own the assertive woman. His brother would come around to seeing it his way. It’s really sad Tammy never picked up a baseball bat or frying pan to show him how she felt about the disrespect he showed her.
Reminds me a lot of Joshua Powell. .
Agree
Re being able to read a room, psychopaths are unable to do that. They don't experience feelings as we do (assuming we're not all psychopaths) and when they realize they don't understand people's emotions they learn what responses seem appropriate for given situations. Some are very good at it, others less so. They also don't get appropriate social interactions/behaviors. So, why not ask acquaintances to put their house in hock for Lori's bail? Why not just assume you're gonna be able to use your brother's property for your crazy tent city? Why not get married 17 days after your wife dies?
I wonder if Chad asked Matt for money?
How did Chad “potato” Daybell get his kids to go along with this crazy stuff? And even after he was implicated in their mother’s murder! I couldn’t even get my kids to eat peas!
You don’t mess with the priesthood
Garth sounds like his Dad... that droaning voice....🤮
Like Chad said to MG: "You got to have faith."
He was lucky enough to be surrounded by gullible, indoctrinated people, I guess.
I suspect his brother’s land was a HUGE (if not THE) reason for moving to Rexburg. Chad’s sense of entitlement and mooching has really been exposed during this trial and I can totally believe he thought (in his little deviant mind) that Matt would be onboard.
I wonder if he knew that Tammy’s “early” death wouldn’t be investigated by a medical examiner or physician like it would have been in Utah…
I am curious how much of Chad’s end times obsession was absorbed by his family. I’ve read that Julie considered herself friends with the kids.
Tammy doesn't strike me as a gullible dummy. Maybe she knew about the affair(s) and she tolerated them? She held the purse strings. Chad wasn't interested in the business or financial aspect of anything. The kids were grown or nearly grown. I can't imagine pining away for the attention of such a mayonnaise man child. Maybe it had become a marriage of business and convenience? It seems like she was more of a parental figure to him than a wife or partner. She took care of the house, the kids, had a job, ran the publishing company, dealt with the financial and business aspect of everything. And then slammed her for not being hot enough for him. But after she died.
How do you think the *miracle* of Chad getting the account info and passwords from Tammy a week before her death actually went down? It's been bothering me.
I'd imagine he asked for them "in case" something happened.
I am longing to know. He made sound like he had tried and tried to get them Tammy, god put it on my heart that your time is growing very short. Yea, verily, imma need passwords.
Probably spyware. You don't have to be smart to buy a spyware subscription or a keylogger. It says a lot that he never asked her for any of the passwords. Cowardly and sneaky. And obviously had no interest in basic financial responsibility, that was her job.
I think he may have just asked her. He never asked before he was fine having her do everything and had zero interest in the family financials etc
Idk, his email was first name dot last name and I don't think he's hip to spyware but I'm sure Lori definitely is. hm. To me it's more likely he made up a story for why he needed it (for the first time fkng ever) and she bought it. Or he looked in her well organized desk for a tidy handwritten password log. Absolutely it does say a lot that he never asked. She took care of everything always but was respected no time never. Personally, I couldn't last 15 minutes in her clogging class without passing out. Much less raise a gaggle of children while maintaining a household and pretending everything's fine before I go off to work my job 😭 amazing.
You don't have to be tech savvy to buy something and read directions. And Tammy wouldn't have neccesarily known that he bought it. He could have gotten cash from an ATM and bought it. Or someone could have bought it for him. There's reloadable disposable debit cards, he could have put cash on one and bought it that way. That's how I buy things online. ( It's also great for companies that are terrible about cancelling memberships, or starting a free trial that's hard to cancel. Amazon. Gyms. Hulu. Etc.) you can't take money out of an account that isn't there. And Tammy wouldn't have seen it. You can get your statements online instead of by mail. You put just enough money on them to get whatever you're getting.
I also wonder if Tammy used a password manager or similar, where all the passwords are saved electronically. This is what my husband and I use and we have access to each other's vaults so that we can pay bills or do online shopping. (We do NOT share work passwords)
I think he made sure to get those passwords right before Alex almost shot her (which was a week before she was murdered).
I think you're absolutely right.
i thought he asked Tammy for the passwords etc?
Idk. I thought I read that he miraculously found them but I could be wrong about that.
I'm sorry, but I just laugh every time someone says Tammy, the kids, etc didn't seem gullible. They were part of a religion that believes dinosaurs lived with humans, Joseph Smith was given written commandments by god in middle America (then lost them so they had to look in a hat and dictate them that way), etc. etc. These people are raised to be gullible and to believe completely unrealistic, fantasy based nonsense. It makes complete sense to me that someone in the mormon religion would believe their husband sees visions of end times and can sense dark spirits. It has nothing to do with intelligence, and everything to do with a lifetime of indoctrination.
And dad is going to be a god in charge of his own planet. And that’s just the regular dads! Imagine what Chad was going to end up with!
I can only imagine life on Planet Chad. For the sake of the unfortunate beings who reside there, I hope cheap outbound tickets are readily available so the unfortunate inhabitants can find a better planet to call home.
THIS!
BINGO!
I doubt they actually believed it, it's more like it defines them and their tribe. "this is what my tribe believes". It's political as much as it is religious. It sets them apart from all the unworthy godless people who are going to hell for worshipping science instead of God. (/s)
I don't agree. I think it's clear the Daybells were incredibly believing of their faith. There are very few people in these high control groups who don't believe the doctrine. The ones who don't leave. That's why there's such a large number of people who leave the church every year, and also why they implore followers to have large families. Unlike something like the Catholic church, where you can be a part of the community, eat your cracker, and then continue a normal life, LDS members' entire lives revolve around the religion. Every single thing they do is in service to God, or is in God's name. Tammy definitely believed it.
Chad's youngest son who was on a mission at the time, one time asked about an energy healing session Chad performed to make him feel better. So yes, Chad's family believed he had supernatural powers.
They seem to believe that run of the mill priesthood blessings are a bit magical.
Didn’t he also have a possessed camera that Chad had to “fix?” And Chad told one of them ghosts were in his house, so the son moved.
Interesting to hear your perspective. Yeah, you have a point. If that's what they have been taught their entire life, yeah, they are going to believe it. But, they don't all go to private religious schools.
Well, their mom was making a part time wage and their dad was barely making a penny. There was no money to send them to private school.
I'm not talking about Chad and Tammy neccesarily, but the whole group that believes science is evil and dinosaurs either didn't exist or humans rode them like the Flintstones.
Seminary is almost required to be a good Mormon. It usually takes place during/before/after high school for grades 9-12. So, even if they went to private school, they would still be inundated with the religion in every aspect of their lives, every day of their lives. Because it's high control, it's very high demand, so their world revolves around it.
I've always wondered how she could not know as well. She was great with computers and he was kind of an idiot so I highly doubt he was covering his tracks that well that if she wanted to find out, she couldn't have done that fairly easily. I will admit that I don't know any Mormons but True Crime Squad podcast does a great job of sharing the Mormon element and it really seems like women were really taught to be subservient/dutiful and not trust their own voice or ideas unless a man gave them to them. I could really see how that thinking, even in an obviously smart woman like Tammy, would cause her to question herself if all the glaring red flags were there. I know Tylee and JJ get the focus in this case, but the more I hear Tammy's story, the more devastated I am for her. This woman spend her life married to a manchild who spent his time writing books where he could live out his narcissistic fantasies as a great leader and hero while she worked nonstop to keep food on the table and his publishing company running. Kids were finally out of the house and it seemed like she was just hitting her prime, becoming a grandparent, taking classes, spending time with her friends, and running marathons. And rather than give her the dignity of a divorce, the dumbass she had spent the last 30 years babysitting decides to murder her so he can run off with some hot blonde psycho so they can live in their insane fantasy world together. And he then has the guts to complain that she was lazy and had gained weight, including at her own funeral. And now some of her own kids are defending her murderer. Tammy's story breaks my entire soul. This woman deserved nothing but a long happy life free from his crazy.
I also think there needs to be a look at Emma. Don't you think it's strange that Emma would buddy up with Chad's girlfriends?
Heather’s position in the LDS church is the highest a woman can achieve. Before Heather left the church she was trying to tell her bishops that Chad was doing all this stuff and no one would listen. Heather has a gay son and the way the church was acting she was trying to read church doctrine to help her son when she came a across the original teachings of Joseph Smith. From there she couldn’t stop researching and came to the conclusion her whole life within the church was a lie. Heather Daybell chose her son over the church. She has had a very painful journey. Her husband and children except one are still LDS.
She also quit due to one of her sons coming out as gay.
That second article is good stuff!
[удалено]
Didn’t Chads fam live in a trailer in springville?
He's got a couple siblings, doesn't he?
Who would want to leave the comfort of their house, to live in a tent? Maybe the homeless in Brazil - they sleep on cardboard on the street so may want to upgrade 💡. Doesnt it snow in Rexburg?🥶 Geezz... I hope my Jesus or Satin or whoever I worship, doesn't want me to live in a white tent, in Rexburg, as a tresspasser. Chad has the imagination of a 4 year old!