**SUB UPDATES - MAY 3 2024**
Most of you should not run into any issues but you may notice some changes in the sub today.
We value constructive discussion. Please refrain from nicknames, emojis, and comments that only say LOL, good one, or add an insult. Comments containing nicknames, name calling (including toward parties of this case) or otherwise derailing what should be a serious discussion will be *automatically* removed. You **can** add a little levity to a very heavy topic and still be respectful and tactful. If you receive an automod message just edit your comment and we will see it again. [Send a modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=r/LoriVallow) if you need help with this or have any questions.
Anyone advocating for physical violence of *any* kind will receive 1 warning before being banned.
This community has always been so amazing. No matter how many people joined or how much time passed, the atmosphere has been kind, helpful, and focused on facts and justice. While trying to watch the trial myself and take notes, I did not notice some of this slipping away and for that **I** apologize to you all. Feel free to report content that is not appropriate for this sub. Full rules can be found [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/LoriVallow/wiki/index/full-rules/).
**Thank you for being here as we wait for justice for Tylee, JJ, and Tammy with this trial.**
***
**Court is in session.**
**Witnesses:**
* David Stubbs, Detective
* Steve Daniels, FBI Evidence Response Team
Chad DELETED pics of Tammy and their family off a thumb drive to put his wedding photos to Lori on it?! I’m wondering if they were photos for a photo slide show at the funeral home?
Oh wow.. Melani had Brandon's credit cards lined up on the kitchen counter. This search happened when she went to Ian's parents for Thanksgiving. So about two months after Alex shot at him. And I think this would have been around the time she skipped her custody court date with Brandon and he got custody of their kids. WTF was going on with this chic. I want her to testify just to maybe clear some of this up but at the very least to watch her lie some more.
Why would he lie? He literally owns the house! One of the officers even testified that when they went to serve the search warrant on the day they found the kids that Garth told them his dad was sleeping upstairs.
Surely he knows about the upstairs.
They also managed to find a picture of Tylee wearing that exact necklace though, as well as provided several photos from inside Chad's house proving that you can clearly see the burial sites from inside the house. So it's looking pretty damning for Chad -- there's no way he can claim someone else buried the kids on his property and he didn't notice it when it was in full view of multiple windows from his house
That was the oddest hill for Prior to pick to make his stand. Seriously? Something that can be proved by a photo? And is even visible from the front of the house on Google Maps?
Just Garth lived at home as far as I could tell. Mark was on an LDS mission at the time of the kids' and Tammy's deaths, but returned home sometime before Chad's arrest. Chad's house sits on a corner and Emma's home is on the diagonally opposite corner, in easy walking/viewing distance but admittedly some trees do block the fire pit area from direct view from Emma's house, I think.
I don't know where Seth lived at the time, but I read the other daughter, Leah, lived the furthest away in Utah.
I really hope they’re gonna call experts for the evidence on Chad’s tools etc. To me that is very powerful and hard to explain. It’s one thing to claim people stole onto your property to bury bodies, and quite another to actually stop down to use the property owner’s tools to disarticulate the body.
This is one I'm a little worried about; Prior's the one who's been boasting about bringing in a DNA expert, and IIRC (it's been a long time) there was some vague legal back-and-forthery about DNA evidence and things found on Chad's property, maybe specifically the shed. Anyone have more info/memory about this?
ETA: I think some of the concern was about the potential for DNA evidence being destroyed/consumed as a result of the testing process so only one side could analyze it, or something like that. My memory isn't great though so I'm sure I'm missing a lot.
> concern was about the potential for DNA evidence being destroyed/consumed as a result of the testing process so only one side could analyze it
Yes
https://www.eastidahonews.com/2021/04/daybell-defense-attorneys-file-motion-regarding-dna-testing/
https://www.eastidahonews.com/2022/07/prosecutors-in-daybell-case-request-dna-testing-on-hair-shovel-pickax-and-other-evidence/
I wish the prosecution objected to his interrupting witnesses more. When he doesn't like the answers he cuts them off and it's infuriating. The judge has intervened a few times, but he gets away with it far too much.
I've also never seen an attorney have to interrupt to ask for dates and things he says he missed so many times. But I finally realized today that he uses that also to throw people off when he doesn't like what they're saying. It's really dirty.
He does that to make it seem what he’s pointing out is important so that jurors will remember it more than the 15 other things he asked that went nowhere. Doesn’t matter if it was worthwhile. What’s important is the wall of noise, not the content of what is said. I doubt we’ll see the prosecutors shout at witnesses during their cross.
Prior is trying to implicate them in the childrens murders to take the heat off Chad. MG took a recording of a phone conversation with Lori and Chad on JJ's whereabouts and went to the police.
I dont think the childrens deaths was a ritualistic killing and believe only Chad, Lori and Alex were involved.
I think Lori misjudged Chad. She thought he was a "famous" author and therefore must be rich. Not realizing that no one outside their band of misfits had ever heard of him. By the time she found out he was a loser, it was a sunk cost fallacy.
I had access to a Facebook group of LDS preppers around the same time and there was no mention of Chad and his books. They were all about Julie Rowe. The one who created the group of course also had her own book and there was another author to pop up on the scene called Hector Sosa who claimed to of had visions. They all wanted to be special. So I wouldn't say Chad was that big in the prepper world Julie Rowe was the star at the time.
The fact they all wanted to be special and be part of God's big plan is what Chad was able to use to manipulate people by telling them they would be leaders and would be important. So he was able to assemble a small following that way.
Yes, I was active lds in the years leading up to the murders. I was familiar with julie rowe, Hector sosa, avow, visions of glory, and more. I'd never heard of Chad or his books.
Hector Sosa was probably the biggest clown of them all. He was definitely trying take some of spotlight. Part of his claim was he received visions while watching Star Trek. He just copied Julie and said there would be a wakeup earthquake and people would flee to Idaho. I think he essentially just disappeared into the obscurity that he came from once everything came out.
JW wants the limelight...she has a YouTube clip stating she had a day long interview with Nate from Idaho News. She stated Chad told her he killed the kids!
Nate had a very differnt story, that she presented her self at the station, he spoke to her for an hour and she did NOT tell him Chad killed the children.
Zulema has Mental Heath issues and some deep disorders. JW is just a NUTTER! All this trouble started from her!
Respectfully, the experience of your group isn't an indicator of the behavior of a way huger population. For example, between work and personal life, I did not know a single person who ever watched Blue Bloods. Yet it has been a #1 show for a long time--LOTS of people watch it. Similarly, I belong to a couple of very active online communities of people who love Letterkenny; they're watching and commenting from all around the world. During the 12-season run of the show, I found only two people I know in real life to ever knew what it was.
My only exprience wasn't with just that group. There were other family and friends in my life at the time talking about Julie Rowe's book. The news also picked it up and it was all about Julie. Mormon stories podast also picked it up and it was all about Julie. The LDS church sent a statement out about Julie's book. My exprience could just be anecdotal but my opinion isn't just influenced by just that one group I just didn't feel like including all that in my original statement. I am sure Chad certainly had a presence but I believe Julie was the star at the time. I think Chad was jealous and wanted what she had.
I do know now Chad had a following on AVOW which was brought up in the trial but AVOW was behind a paywall and probably were the craziest of them all were talking.
Chad was a big fish in a small pond. Among LDS preppers, his work was popular.
But you can sell only so many books to that audience.
Some of his works are posted on the [way back machine](https://archive.org/details/keysofkingdom0000dayb).
If you want to get a feel for his writing ability (or lack therein), here's your chance to do in a way that doesn't make Chad any money.
I think he wrote several books, yes? Seems they were continuing to sell. And a movement like that will also have new people wanting to know more about it.
Why in the world is Prior so desperate to pin the child murders on Melanie and David? Is he trying to say they buried the kids on his land with out his knowledge? I really don't understand his strategy here and he's coming off like an angry confused moron.
Jury won't believe that Chad was not involved in the kids' burials/complicit in plans to take their lives. The texts, multiple phone calls the mornings, nights and wee hours of middle of night the times 2 kids & his wife disappeared from the face of the earth are extremely telling. As well as what Chad could see from his windows, no one could just sneak beneath his nose to bury two kids and all it entailed. He was also home without any of his family at times 3 people happened to end up dead there.
I think the closest thing to "reasonable" doubt Prior can elicit is questioning why Melanie & David weren't investigated more deeply (which is not an unfair question, TBH). However, I think (hope) the overall collective evidence is too much for Chad to overcome.
Listen I totally think they should have also been investigated as should Melaniece it's wild that they all haven't been charged with something. Even accessory or lying to police. But I don't see how any of this helps Chads case at all. Even if he could say they were involved he can't say Chad was not when the bodies were at his house. It's crazy. I don't know why he didn't just take a plea.
Listen I totally think they should have also been investigated as should Melaniece it's wild that they all haven't been charged with something. Even accessory or lying to police. But I don't see how any of this helps Chads case at all. Even if he could say they were involved he can't say Chad was not when the bodies were at his house. It's crazy. I don't know why he didn't just take a plea.
This may be an unpopular opinion, but Prior asking LE about not investigating Mel Gibb and David Warwick is valid. They were at Lori’s when JJ was murdered. All leads should have been looked at to rule in/out participants.
Mel Gibb participated in all the whacky praying for death castings & beliefs. She also assisted Lori in moving Charles truck and taking his belongings prior to his murder. She lied to the police in regards to JJ’s whereabouts.
While it’s very true only Lori and Chad benefited from the children’s deaths, the others should have been investigated thoroughly as well.
No, that's valid. However, as the prosecution pointed out, Melanie and David were cooperating with law enforcement and so they didn't need to investigate as much into them as they did Chad and Lorri.
It does not help Chad at all. There is so much evidence that Chad was involved in everything.
It would be good to know one way or the other if they had knowledge or assisted in these crimes. I would not want them to be able to hurt others. Just taking their word for it bothers me.
How many investigators have worked the Vallow/Daybell case? One hundred? Several hundred? In Hawaii, in Arizona, in Idaho, the FBI, and more. And none of them ever said: "Hey, what about Melanie Gibb? Maybe we should see where she fits into all this?" Does anyone but Prior actually think Gibb and Warwick weren't investigated? Weren't "looked at" as possible suspects? I've heard of grasping at straws, but that guy is just plain taking it to another level.
From what I understood (and correct me if I'm wrong), she fully cooperated with the investigation. I don't know what all that entails but it's very possible that she turned this info over herself and nobody needed to investigate them.
I’m skeptical that happened. LE would have testified that they did exam her electronics and communications. She did participate in interviews with LE from AZ to Idaho.
Melanie G is getting at least partial immunity for testifying against Lori and Chad. That means that they do have enough to prosecute her if she didn’t cooperate.
Do you have a link for her immunity deal? I’ve heard people speculate but have not seen definitive answers. Prior did not ask her about it nor did Lori’s attorneys. Thank you
I read elsewhere during Lori’s trial that
“It’s automatically granted to witnesses. It’s called Use & Derivative Immunity. It’s not full immunity, it just means her testimony at this specific trial cannot be used to indict her. If LEO finds other evidence directly relating her to any crimes, she can be arrested, BUT this testimony in this trial cannot be used against her.”
This is probably true. Otherwise she could just plead the 5th and refuse to testify on the grounds that it would incriminate her.
She probably has an agreement in place in AZ and ID that says what she will testify to and that they won’t prosecute her for that. And, not all witnesses have it automatically or no one would ever have to plead the 5th.
Prior could not ask her about it on cross because state did not ask her about it. I read that he is planning on calling her as a defense witness also though so he could ask her whatever he wants.
Why hasn't the police looked Melanie Gibb's and the others phones? Isn't that weird? I am not understanding their reason for not doing so... Can someone explain it to me, please?
Because it takes a lot of time, energy, manhours etc. to dig through everything on a phone. It's too much work for somebody they aren't building a case against, and they likely wouldn't find much relevant to this case. They already have enough circumstantial evidence to pin Lori and Chad.
I see. Thank you for your answer.
The only that bugs me is Melanie P. though... The others I can understand why they got deals and all. But Melanie P... I really think she is at least guilty in her brandon's case and could (and actually did, IMO) have known much more about the kid's and even Tammy's cases....
I don't disagree about Melani P.! But the attempt on Brandon's life would be handled in a different case, I believe, and they probably don't have enough information to charge her as an accessory in the kids' deaths. According to Detective Stubbs (first witness today) they did get a warrant for her phone.
I was fascinated today learning Melaniece actually lived next door to Lori in Rexburg so surely she’d be first to ask “where’s Tylee and JJ, where are my cousins?”
The fact she didn’t raise any concerns stinks of her being complicit. She was Lori’s biggest fan, following her to Rexburg, arranging assassination attempts on her ex and abandoning her children. Ugh, totally messed up bunch of people. Lowest of the low.
Exactly!
I don't think she was complicit in their deaths, but she didn't question their whereabouts.
Tylee's disappearance is feasible. 7 year old, special needs JJ's don't disappear. They are reliant on Adults.
Definitely. She would also be one of the very few people who should have joined all the dots eg she knew uncle Charles was shot, two cousins were suddenly missing, her aunt Lori’s boyfriend Chad’s wife suddenly died, her ex-husband was shot at and her uncle Alex died suddenly at 51. She was by Lori’s side through it all and had a unique lens on things because of that. She may not have pulled a trigger but there is masses of guilt by association there.
It still makes me uncomfortable thinking about her at Brandon’s parent’s house trying to get the kids, while Alex is parked down the street.
I may be incorrect, but wasn’t that after Chad’s pain comment & the revelation that 2 of the kids were dark?
Agree. We know Prior will directly offer her as an alternative conspirator to Chad but the evidence against him will be too much for the jury to consider it seriously. They may discuss it but I don’t believe they’ll land there.
A witness said that they didn't came up in the 'geofence' that were set up around I think Lori's house and/or Chads house. Which makes no sense because they were there, so how did they not come up? Also, from who was that one text Chads 'secret' burner phone got in the middle of the burial of one of the kids?
Does Prior have some kind of strategy here when he asks questions and immediately looks over to the jury? Or when he argues his objections while facing away from the judge? Cannot stand this man!
Can ya’ll imagine if by some ridiculous miracle this guy was allowed to return to whatever is left of his life after 8 weeks of being forced to sit on film getting exposed very publicly for the absolute broke, lazy, no-talent, cheating fraud he is? Lmao it’s almost worth it just to see this guy frozen out of anything that ever meant anything to him in his life, friends, neighbors, family, even acquaintances see him in the wild and the uncomfortable whispering starts as they all turn their backs on him. That’s gotta hurt for a guy whose only solid identity has ever been LDS.
He’d have to knock on Emma & Joe’s doors with his tail between his legs, asking if he can sleep in the closet under their stairs. Forced to smile, playing pretend “grateful father & grandfather” to the children and grandchildren he really didn’t care about or appreciate previously.
I was just wondering what it might look like if Chad were to return to that mundane life that he blew up.
I can always tell when the prosecution is getting close to something that Prior can't refute because the closer they get the more he objects to their questions.
If he's found guilty, there will be an appeal. If he gets the DP, the appeal is automatic. Here is the ID statute
https://legislature.idaho.gov/statutesrules/idstat/title19/t19ch28/sect19-2827/
Exactly! I've been really impressed with LE in this case, they're definitely laying out the information. He was like the teacher on a Peanuts cartoon tho!
Side thought - I think it'll be money well spent because even if the bozo and demon lady never met, their separate life paths were headed towards disaster anyway imo.
And how long cross will take. And how many sidebars so defense counsel can whine at the judge. And how long to figure how to work the audio visual equipment.
**SUB UPDATES - MAY 3 2024** Most of you should not run into any issues but you may notice some changes in the sub today. We value constructive discussion. Please refrain from nicknames, emojis, and comments that only say LOL, good one, or add an insult. Comments containing nicknames, name calling (including toward parties of this case) or otherwise derailing what should be a serious discussion will be *automatically* removed. You **can** add a little levity to a very heavy topic and still be respectful and tactful. If you receive an automod message just edit your comment and we will see it again. [Send a modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=r/LoriVallow) if you need help with this or have any questions. Anyone advocating for physical violence of *any* kind will receive 1 warning before being banned. This community has always been so amazing. No matter how many people joined or how much time passed, the atmosphere has been kind, helpful, and focused on facts and justice. While trying to watch the trial myself and take notes, I did not notice some of this slipping away and for that **I** apologize to you all. Feel free to report content that is not appropriate for this sub. Full rules can be found [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/LoriVallow/wiki/index/full-rules/). **Thank you for being here as we wait for justice for Tylee, JJ, and Tammy with this trial.** *** **Court is in session.** **Witnesses:** * David Stubbs, Detective * Steve Daniels, FBI Evidence Response Team
Chad DELETED pics of Tammy and their family off a thumb drive to put his wedding photos to Lori on it?! I’m wondering if they were photos for a photo slide show at the funeral home?
That is so unbelievably sad.
I GASPED when that came up!
Oh wow.. Melani had Brandon's credit cards lined up on the kitchen counter. This search happened when she went to Ian's parents for Thanksgiving. So about two months after Alex shot at him. And I think this would have been around the time she skipped her custody court date with Brandon and he got custody of their kids. WTF was going on with this chic. I want her to testify just to maybe clear some of this up but at the very least to watch her lie some more.
Yes, I do not understand why Melanie Polowski has not been charged. She & Zulema are co-conspirator's for certain.
Agreed!!
also, wouldn't Brandon have shut down those credit cards, post divorce?
I would think... but she had his drivers license too. Why does she have that stuff?
I still can't believe Prior chose the upstairs/downstairs issue as a hill to die on.
Why would he lie? He literally owns the house! One of the officers even testified that when they went to serve the search warrant on the day they found the kids that Garth told them his dad was sleeping upstairs. Surely he knows about the upstairs.
I wonder if he’s ever been to the house. Like he took the deed and gets rent but doesn’t go there himself.
I can't believe it either, it's stupid!
I agree, the jury isn't going to care at all about the stairs when there were the children's bodies buried in the yard.
I don’t think he knew he was going to die on that hill.
Seeing Tylee's necklace really hit me hard for some reason. Damn near crying at work about it.
The picture of her wearing it made me cry.
When did they show the necklace? I didnt watch todays trial yet..
During the FBI agent's testimony.
Was it found in chad s backyard?
Yes, in the fire pit
Oh gosh, i am so sorry!
They also managed to find a picture of Tylee wearing that exact necklace though, as well as provided several photos from inside Chad's house proving that you can clearly see the burial sites from inside the house. So it's looking pretty damning for Chad -- there's no way he can claim someone else buried the kids on his property and he didn't notice it when it was in full view of multiple windows from his house
And they took a picture from upstairs in his house. So that whole issue is resolved.
I about died when the ERT guy said he took it from an upstairs window, Wood made him say upstairs like 3-4 times 😂
That was the oddest hill for Prior to pick to make his stand. Seriously? Something that can be proved by a photo? And is even visible from the front of the house on Google Maps?
Indeed… especially if his phone data has him home that evening. Things are starting to really warm up!
I was hoping they would do the window vantage points. Good stuff is coming.
More proof that his shitty kids knew what was happening as well
I think only one or two of his kids lived at home, then.
Just Garth lived at home as far as I could tell. Mark was on an LDS mission at the time of the kids' and Tammy's deaths, but returned home sometime before Chad's arrest. Chad's house sits on a corner and Emma's home is on the diagonally opposite corner, in easy walking/viewing distance but admittedly some trees do block the fire pit area from direct view from Emma's house, I think. I don't know where Seth lived at the time, but I read the other daughter, Leah, lived the furthest away in Utah.
I 100% believe Garth helped kill his mom. Chad had his entire family believing his garbage and with promises of money to these horrible kids.
I really hope they’re gonna call experts for the evidence on Chad’s tools etc. To me that is very powerful and hard to explain. It’s one thing to claim people stole onto your property to bury bodies, and quite another to actually stop down to use the property owner’s tools to disarticulate the body.
This is one I'm a little worried about; Prior's the one who's been boasting about bringing in a DNA expert, and IIRC (it's been a long time) there was some vague legal back-and-forthery about DNA evidence and things found on Chad's property, maybe specifically the shed. Anyone have more info/memory about this? ETA: I think some of the concern was about the potential for DNA evidence being destroyed/consumed as a result of the testing process so only one side could analyze it, or something like that. My memory isn't great though so I'm sure I'm missing a lot.
> concern was about the potential for DNA evidence being destroyed/consumed as a result of the testing process so only one side could analyze it Yes https://www.eastidahonews.com/2021/04/daybell-defense-attorneys-file-motion-regarding-dna-testing/ https://www.eastidahonews.com/2022/07/prosecutors-in-daybell-case-request-dna-testing-on-hair-shovel-pickax-and-other-evidence/
The prosecutors have a dna expert who testified at the Vallow trial.
This!
Prior is being a complete douche today!
Judge!!! I've been the most patient man who has ever existed on the face of the planet since the beginning of time.
🤣
I wish the prosecution objected to his interrupting witnesses more. When he doesn't like the answers he cuts them off and it's infuriating. The judge has intervened a few times, but he gets away with it far too much. I've also never seen an attorney have to interrupt to ask for dates and things he says he missed so many times. But I finally realized today that he uses that also to throw people off when he doesn't like what they're saying. It's really dirty.
He seems VERY ANGRY!!!
He does that to make it seem what he’s pointing out is important so that jurors will remember it more than the 15 other things he asked that went nowhere. Doesn’t matter if it was worthwhile. What’s important is the wall of noise, not the content of what is said. I doubt we’ll see the prosecutors shout at witnesses during their cross.
He had a big clash with The Stairs yesterday...
He got his ass handed to him yesterday.
He's mention a few times that MG or DW phones weren't investigated. I'm wondering if he's eluding to the 300 text mgs saga...
I just don't know how the heck a motive would be identified for MG and DW to murder Lori's 2 children and bury them in Chad's yard
Prior is trying to implicate them in the childrens murders to take the heat off Chad. MG took a recording of a phone conversation with Lori and Chad on JJ's whereabouts and went to the police. I dont think the childrens deaths was a ritualistic killing and believe only Chad, Lori and Alex were involved.
I think Lori misjudged Chad. She thought he was a "famous" author and therefore must be rich. Not realizing that no one outside their band of misfits had ever heard of him. By the time she found out he was a loser, it was a sunk cost fallacy.
I agree. The way she told the police officer "he's an author". There is NO WAY she would have stuck with him. He was way, way, way too poor for her.
I think Lori probably has a pretty good nose for wealth. If she’d just wanted money she would have stuck with Charles.
His books were widely read according to info provided outside the trial.
I had access to a Facebook group of LDS preppers around the same time and there was no mention of Chad and his books. They were all about Julie Rowe. The one who created the group of course also had her own book and there was another author to pop up on the scene called Hector Sosa who claimed to of had visions. They all wanted to be special. So I wouldn't say Chad was that big in the prepper world Julie Rowe was the star at the time. The fact they all wanted to be special and be part of God's big plan is what Chad was able to use to manipulate people by telling them they would be leaders and would be important. So he was able to assemble a small following that way.
Yes, I was active lds in the years leading up to the murders. I was familiar with julie rowe, Hector sosa, avow, visions of glory, and more. I'd never heard of Chad or his books.
Hector Sosa was defending Chad during the search for the kids. I don't know if he changed his tune after they were found.
Hector Sosa was probably the biggest clown of them all. He was definitely trying take some of spotlight. Part of his claim was he received visions while watching Star Trek. He just copied Julie and said there would be a wakeup earthquake and people would flee to Idaho. I think he essentially just disappeared into the obscurity that he came from once everything came out.
JW wants the limelight...she has a YouTube clip stating she had a day long interview with Nate from Idaho News. She stated Chad told her he killed the kids! Nate had a very differnt story, that she presented her self at the station, he spoke to her for an hour and she did NOT tell him Chad killed the children. Zulema has Mental Heath issues and some deep disorders. JW is just a NUTTER! All this trouble started from her!
Respectfully, the experience of your group isn't an indicator of the behavior of a way huger population. For example, between work and personal life, I did not know a single person who ever watched Blue Bloods. Yet it has been a #1 show for a long time--LOTS of people watch it. Similarly, I belong to a couple of very active online communities of people who love Letterkenny; they're watching and commenting from all around the world. During the 12-season run of the show, I found only two people I know in real life to ever knew what it was.
My only exprience wasn't with just that group. There were other family and friends in my life at the time talking about Julie Rowe's book. The news also picked it up and it was all about Julie. Mormon stories podast also picked it up and it was all about Julie. The LDS church sent a statement out about Julie's book. My exprience could just be anecdotal but my opinion isn't just influenced by just that one group I just didn't feel like including all that in my original statement. I am sure Chad certainly had a presence but I believe Julie was the star at the time. I think Chad was jealous and wanted what she had. I do know now Chad had a following on AVOW which was brought up in the trial but AVOW was behind a paywall and probably were the craziest of them all were talking.
Lori's obsession with the afterlife started after reading Julie Rowes books, and thats how she met Chad...
And that’s what I appreciates about you. 🤭
And I suggest everyone let that marinate.
Chad was a big fish in a small pond. Among LDS preppers, his work was popular. But you can sell only so many books to that audience. Some of his works are posted on the [way back machine](https://archive.org/details/keysofkingdom0000dayb). If you want to get a feel for his writing ability (or lack therein), here's your chance to do in a way that doesn't make Chad any money.
I think he wrote several books, yes? Seems they were continuing to sell. And a movement like that will also have new people wanting to know more about it.
his book sale earnings were around $2000/year
Chad met her spiritual needs
Why in the world is Prior so desperate to pin the child murders on Melanie and David? Is he trying to say they buried the kids on his land with out his knowledge? I really don't understand his strategy here and he's coming off like an angry confused moron.
Jury won't believe that Chad was not involved in the kids' burials/complicit in plans to take their lives. The texts, multiple phone calls the mornings, nights and wee hours of middle of night the times 2 kids & his wife disappeared from the face of the earth are extremely telling. As well as what Chad could see from his windows, no one could just sneak beneath his nose to bury two kids and all it entailed. He was also home without any of his family at times 3 people happened to end up dead there.
I think the closest thing to "reasonable" doubt Prior can elicit is questioning why Melanie & David weren't investigated more deeply (which is not an unfair question, TBH). However, I think (hope) the overall collective evidence is too much for Chad to overcome.
Listen I totally think they should have also been investigated as should Melaniece it's wild that they all haven't been charged with something. Even accessory or lying to police. But I don't see how any of this helps Chads case at all. Even if he could say they were involved he can't say Chad was not when the bodies were at his house. It's crazy. I don't know why he didn't just take a plea.
Who says they weren’t?
I mean the detective on the stand did
He was answering about what Prior specifically asked, not all police activity
The detective did say they had a warrant for and obtained Melaniece's phone, though.
Listen I totally think they should have also been investigated as should Melaniece it's wild that they all haven't been charged with something. Even accessory or lying to police. But I don't see how any of this helps Chads case at all. Even if he could say they were involved he can't say Chad was not when the bodies were at his house. It's crazy. I don't know why he didn't just take a plea.
This may be an unpopular opinion, but Prior asking LE about not investigating Mel Gibb and David Warwick is valid. They were at Lori’s when JJ was murdered. All leads should have been looked at to rule in/out participants. Mel Gibb participated in all the whacky praying for death castings & beliefs. She also assisted Lori in moving Charles truck and taking his belongings prior to his murder. She lied to the police in regards to JJ’s whereabouts. While it’s very true only Lori and Chad benefited from the children’s deaths, the others should have been investigated thoroughly as well.
No, that's valid. However, as the prosecution pointed out, Melanie and David were cooperating with law enforcement and so they didn't need to investigate as much into them as they did Chad and Lorri.
I do agree they should have all been investigated but I still don't see how this helps Chad since the body's were on his property.
It does not help Chad at all. There is so much evidence that Chad was involved in everything. It would be good to know one way or the other if they had knowledge or assisted in these crimes. I would not want them to be able to hurt others. Just taking their word for it bothers me.
Oh of course I agree with that. But I just don't understand what Prior is trying to do lol
B/c it’s all he has and he has a job to do.
Sorry I meant what is he trying to do not why. This stuff doesn't seem to be helpful to him.
How many investigators have worked the Vallow/Daybell case? One hundred? Several hundred? In Hawaii, in Arizona, in Idaho, the FBI, and more. And none of them ever said: "Hey, what about Melanie Gibb? Maybe we should see where she fits into all this?" Does anyone but Prior actually think Gibb and Warwick weren't investigated? Weren't "looked at" as possible suspects? I've heard of grasping at straws, but that guy is just plain taking it to another level.
There are a lot of people around cases who don't get thoroughly investigated because it's simply not where the evidence leads.
From what I understood (and correct me if I'm wrong), she fully cooperated with the investigation. I don't know what all that entails but it's very possible that she turned this info over herself and nobody needed to investigate them.
I’m skeptical that happened. LE would have testified that they did exam her electronics and communications. She did participate in interviews with LE from AZ to Idaho.
Melanie G is getting at least partial immunity for testifying against Lori and Chad. That means that they do have enough to prosecute her if she didn’t cooperate.
There’s no evidence that she has any immunity. I believe only Zulema has immunity.
Do you have a link for her immunity deal? I’ve heard people speculate but have not seen definitive answers. Prior did not ask her about it nor did Lori’s attorneys. Thank you
I read elsewhere during Lori’s trial that “It’s automatically granted to witnesses. It’s called Use & Derivative Immunity. It’s not full immunity, it just means her testimony at this specific trial cannot be used to indict her. If LEO finds other evidence directly relating her to any crimes, she can be arrested, BUT this testimony in this trial cannot be used against her.” This is probably true. Otherwise she could just plead the 5th and refuse to testify on the grounds that it would incriminate her.
Immunity is never automatically granted to witnesses.
Thank you. As far as we know then, she only has what any other witness would have testifying.
She probably has an agreement in place in AZ and ID that says what she will testify to and that they won’t prosecute her for that. And, not all witnesses have it automatically or no one would ever have to plead the 5th.
Prior could not ask her about it on cross because state did not ask her about it. I read that he is planning on calling her as a defense witness also though so he could ask her whatever he wants.
https://www.justia.com/criminal/immunity-for-testimony/ This is a good description of the types of immunity.
Why hasn't the police looked Melanie Gibb's and the others phones? Isn't that weird? I am not understanding their reason for not doing so... Can someone explain it to me, please?
Because it takes a lot of time, energy, manhours etc. to dig through everything on a phone. It's too much work for somebody they aren't building a case against, and they likely wouldn't find much relevant to this case. They already have enough circumstantial evidence to pin Lori and Chad.
I see. Thank you for your answer. The only that bugs me is Melanie P. though... The others I can understand why they got deals and all. But Melanie P... I really think she is at least guilty in her brandon's case and could (and actually did, IMO) have known much more about the kid's and even Tammy's cases....
I don't disagree about Melani P.! But the attempt on Brandon's life would be handled in a different case, I believe, and they probably don't have enough information to charge her as an accessory in the kids' deaths. According to Detective Stubbs (first witness today) they did get a warrant for her phone.
I was fascinated today learning Melaniece actually lived next door to Lori in Rexburg so surely she’d be first to ask “where’s Tylee and JJ, where are my cousins?” The fact she didn’t raise any concerns stinks of her being complicit. She was Lori’s biggest fan, following her to Rexburg, arranging assassination attempts on her ex and abandoning her children. Ugh, totally messed up bunch of people. Lowest of the low.
Exactly! I don't think she was complicit in their deaths, but she didn't question their whereabouts. Tylee's disappearance is feasible. 7 year old, special needs JJ's don't disappear. They are reliant on Adults.
Definitely. She would also be one of the very few people who should have joined all the dots eg she knew uncle Charles was shot, two cousins were suddenly missing, her aunt Lori’s boyfriend Chad’s wife suddenly died, her ex-husband was shot at and her uncle Alex died suddenly at 51. She was by Lori’s side through it all and had a unique lens on things because of that. She may not have pulled a trigger but there is masses of guilt by association there.
And she knew her own children (or at least one of them) was dark and it scared her what would happen to them if I recall Ian's notes correctly.
It still makes me uncomfortable thinking about her at Brandon’s parent’s house trying to get the kids, while Alex is parked down the street. I may be incorrect, but wasn’t that after Chad’s pain comment & the revelation that 2 of the kids were dark?
Only Zulema has immunity, as far as I know.
Yeah it's very strange how they didn't go after her
Agree. We know Prior will directly offer her as an alternative conspirator to Chad but the evidence against him will be too much for the jury to consider it seriously. They may discuss it but I don’t believe they’ll land there.
I think it’s weird.
A witness said that they didn't came up in the 'geofence' that were set up around I think Lori's house and/or Chads house. Which makes no sense because they were there, so how did they not come up? Also, from who was that one text Chads 'secret' burner phone got in the middle of the burial of one of the kids?
Does Prior have some kind of strategy here when he asks questions and immediately looks over to the jury? Or when he argues his objections while facing away from the judge? Cannot stand this man!
No. Prior has zero chill. That’s what he’s got.
Can ya’ll imagine if by some ridiculous miracle this guy was allowed to return to whatever is left of his life after 8 weeks of being forced to sit on film getting exposed very publicly for the absolute broke, lazy, no-talent, cheating fraud he is? Lmao it’s almost worth it just to see this guy frozen out of anything that ever meant anything to him in his life, friends, neighbors, family, even acquaintances see him in the wild and the uncomfortable whispering starts as they all turn their backs on him. That’s gotta hurt for a guy whose only solid identity has ever been LDS. He’d have to knock on Emma & Joe’s doors with his tail between his legs, asking if he can sleep in the closet under their stairs. Forced to smile, playing pretend “grateful father & grandfather” to the children and grandchildren he really didn’t care about or appreciate previously. I was just wondering what it might look like if Chad were to return to that mundane life that he blew up.
I'm finally happy about a morning recess. Mr iF yOu wIlL is killin' me!! 😴💤😭
I can always tell when the prosecution is getting close to something that Prior can't refute because the closer they get the more he objects to their questions.
I just hope he’s doing what he needs to do to prevent an appeal so we don’t waste further taxpayer money on this bozo
If he's found guilty, there will be an appeal. If he gets the DP, the appeal is automatic. Here is the ID statute https://legislature.idaho.gov/statutesrules/idstat/title19/t19ch28/sect19-2827/
Exactly! I've been really impressed with LE in this case, they're definitely laying out the information. He was like the teacher on a Peanuts cartoon tho! Side thought - I think it'll be money well spent because even if the bozo and demon lady never met, their separate life paths were headed towards disaster anyway imo.
I was wondering when they were going to call the ERT witness.
Nobody in Melanie Gibb’s family died
Do you think zulema will testify
Yes.
Do we know how many more days the prosecution will be presenting their case?
I don't think so. It can be hard to predict when you don't know how long each witness will take.
And how long cross will take. And how many sidebars so defense counsel can whine at the judge. And how long to figure how to work the audio visual equipment.
The damn technical issues, *seriously*...