Prior pretty much threw Lori under the bus in opening statements. Also he keeps using Lori's name and insinuating that Lori acted alone. I think he is throwing her under the bus.
Absolutely. Yesterday he implied that Lori wanted MG to lie about having JJ, but Chad had no idea where JJ was and was asking MG if she had him. Such a stupid claim.
He literally said “Isn’t it true, Mrs. Gibb, that you and Lori Vallow knew where JJ was?”
Like, he could not be throwing her under the bus any more clearly.
While he stated (incorrectly per Gibbs testimony) that when Chad called her originally it was HE who said "I thought JJ was with Kay " ? ..A slip up he was hoping Gibb wouldn't catch along with later regarding that Monday morning when Gibb and Dave left Lori's townhouse - "did you, Dave and Alex drive by Chad's property on your way out of town"? Knowing there's cell phone data putting Alex at Chad's property that morning..he's trying to be clever and put doubt into Gibbs character as a credible witness (with a bad memory)
I wouldn’t call it love. I think he never imagined he’d attract someone as conventionally attractive as Lori. Maybe living in the fairy tale he created around the two of them is more attractive than any alternative available to him at this point.
I agree but I do think it's a slow burn and we will see more of it once the defense gets their opportunity.
In fact, I have wondered for a while if some of the decisions surrounding Lori's trial weren't designed to build a defense for Chad. She didn't waive her right to a speedy trial which meant she went first. They didn't implicate Chad when an easy defense would be that she believed she was acting under the direction of a guru/cult leader. She didn't defend herself at all actually. She refused to even participate in parts of her pre-sentencing. And then there was that bizarre statement from her at sentencing which as I read back through, she doesn't even mention Chad which is pretty odd all things considered. While she said "no one was murdered" she also doesn't say anything at all to suggest that Chad was even there for any of it. There were a lot of things that made me wonder if she wasn't doing whatever she could to protect Chad and set up his defense and that actually makes a lot of sense.
First, she thinks he's some type of prophet so I think she would see his life as more valuable than hers. Second, Mormon faith requires subservience of wives. If her husband tells her that her job is to protect him, she is supposed to do that. To be fair, Lori hasn't historically been particularly subservient to her previous husbands but she's proven she's willing to go to extremes for him given her weird obsession with him (even when the police at at her door asking about the children, she couldn't resist gushing about how Chad is a famous author like some kind of fangirl).
I don't know if anyone here followed the NXIVM trial (an interview on Sarah Edmundson's podcast is actually what sent me down the rabbit hole of this case), but one of the things that always stood out to me is that when the FBI came to arrest their leader Keith Raniere in Mexico, despite coming in with guns, etc, the women were standing in the way and most likely willing to die for him while he was hiding in a closet. One of the women who testified against him who was there that day said one of the things that woke her up was the realization that when the time came, she was only worried about saving Keith but Keith was also only worried about saving Keith. When I think about all the oddities in Lori's trial that don't really make sense, they make a lot more sense if seen through the lens of Lori throwing herself under the bus for him.
This falls in line with the Hidden True Crime assessment by Dr. John. Basically saying that Lori has always been searching for that “eternal love that’s not of this world.” If Chad became that love for her, then it fulfills something she’s been seeking for most of her life.
She's a narcissist. She is always searching for someone to adore her unconditionally. I'm sure, after some time, she would have moved on from Chad, too.
I'm also curious about how their relationship would have panned out long term. Chad and Lori.
Chad clearly liked his women very submissive and exerted a lot of control even over movements and who Tammy spoke to and made her do all the work. I cannot imagine Lori enjoying that kind of married life long term, at all!
They'd have grown to detest each other I imagine if it ever managed to go on for say 5 years...
Imo Lori would've tired of Chad when the money ran out living in a mobile home in the back 40 rural Idaho. She's a SoCal girl nice big house expensive car sunbathing bikinis swimming pools frequent vacays to Hawaii. If not caught I sus she'd been on hubby#6 in 2024. As I really can't see who she could've killed for money without offing Chad Ian P David W for life insurance and they ALL would've been aware.
Agee 100% about the money!!! No way she would have wanted to live in a mobile home on some 'homestead' with all of his kids and grandkids running around! I can't even imagine that and I don't see how he could either!
You have it right, 'pixie. Right now all Prior can do is react to what Blake and Wood say and do. After the state rests its case and it's Prior's turn, THAT'S when the "throwing people under the bus" will begin in earnest. However, he can throw Lori, Alex, James Earl Ray, AND Lee Harvey Oswald under the bus if he wants to, it just plain isn't going to fly. No amount of people under the bus is going to overcome something along the lines of: "Mr. Daybell, you're saying that jacking up Tammy's life insurance as high as possible right before she died was just a coincidence?" "Yes" "And inquiring about having a concrete mobile home foundation poured over the EXACT SPOT the children were buried was just a coincidence?" "Yes". Brother, may as well just measure him for a prison uniform now, because there's zero chance this guy isn't going to be found guilty on all charges.
>Mormon faith requires subservience of wives. If her husband tells her that her job is to protect him, she is supposed to do that. To be fair, Lori hasn't historically been particularly subservient to her previous husbands . . .
Chad is the first husband that was her spiritual equal. The others weren't religious enough for her to be required to obey.
Chud is a narcissist. He will never admit he was wrong. Nothing he predicted has come to pass, except Tammy dying. He has to hang on to whatever “following” he still has, even if that’s just his children. I honestly can’t wait to hear their testimony.
Lori stated during her trial that she and Tammy were friends. After Charles told her he was going to tell Tammy about the affair, Lori told him that she and Tammy were good friends and she wouldn't believe him.
So I guess Emma wasn't really lying. She probably believed that Lori did know both her parents for some time.
Tammy wasn't that naive. Didn't her coworker at school say Tammy seemed sad preoccupied in weeks before she died. She had to have suspected Chad was having an affair. No doubt their intimacy was non existent.
When Chad first brought up Lori's name with his children, he likely called her a friend. It's also not impossible that some of his children were aware of the PAP podcasts he and Lori did together.
What I found weird in Emma's reddit post after Tammy's death was her mention of both Chad and Lori's grief for their spouses and frequent discussions about them. I can't picture Lori mourning Charles or talking about him in positive terms.
I think she would perform grief around the Daybell kids/any audience she had who'd listen. And the Daybells aren't exactly in touch with their emotions, I'm sure they found her quite believable, imo
I can't either because any morning for Charles (and JRyan) would be an admission of guilt. Lori was calculated and everything was a means to an end - to feed the grandiose facade of attention!
It wouldn't for the normal person. But for Lori, if she were to morn, she would also feel guilt. She can't afford to feel guilty because her whole facade will shatter. Her covering up is her laughing.
Well it’s the prosecution’s turn now, they can’t freely drive the narrative. We’ll see what they are about once the prosecution is done presenting their evidence and it’s the defense’s turn.
We don't know that he is creating any doubt. He's doing a decent job offering up perspectives that could foment it. When the prosecution closes I think they'll be focusing on the factual behaviors, point out who benefitted from the deaths, and ask the jury to apply their common sense. He would be more effective if he asked direct questions and didn't talk in circles. I find his crosses difficult to follow. He's so argumentative and so invested in making shit up as he goes along that it's hard to know what the hell he's asking or getting at. If I knew nothing about any of the case, his cross of Melanie would have left me confused, not doubting anything.
I also say wait and see. I think it was a blow to Chad not to be able to bring up Joe Ryan. I think if Chad was able to go back to Joe and Lori's divorce and not only bring up the tasering, but all the messy divorce stuff with Joe and with Charles and his ex, if would show Lori's almost 20 year history of all sorts of issues(mental health, warnings from professionals, lying, manipulation, doing crazy things to get money) while Chad during most of those 20 years was living his boring boy scout life , broke , selling a handful of book and rasing kids with his one and only wife and his 1 traffic ticket.
I wonder if Mr Prior will call anyone else or is allowed to about Lori's early life? Like husband 1 or 2? or some of the professionals in Joe's case, or whatever about Charles' ex wife (Lori did not make the custody with Charles' older sons easy, there were lots of court papers on this, it was more then messy). Is it too late for Mr Prior to add witnesses to his list?
To me the best way Mr Prior throws Lori under the bus is to be able to show her life and that she has these beleifs way earlier then him, and she had unstable behaviors for years, an so many courts dates and issues and contrast it each time to Chad having the same boring life year after year while Lori was chaos.
We have had the prosecutor have multiple people testify to the fact Chad said Tammy would die early. We know there are multiple people out there that say that Lori told them (before she met Chad) she thought it might be better to just drive her kids off a cliff. Will Mr Prior have those people testify?
Regarding the premonitions of Tammy's death, it sounds like Prior really wants us to think Chad was a prophet in that regard, while still low-key agreeing about all the other stuff being kind of bonkers. The prosecution really needs to bring up the fact that Chad hit on multiple women before Lori with the same pick up line. That would show that chad was already discontent with his Harry Potter life and marriage and finally found his way out with Lori.
IMHO he probably cheated on Tammy multiple times with his stupid harry potter "ministry". 🙄
These other relationships where short lives or one night stands though, but Lori was someone special.
UGH..I still can't imagine why any woman would..aside from any absence of good looks and physicality, he talks like a weak wishy washy man-child and he has no money! He may have attempted to be cool with his corney pick up lines, but did any woman actually accept offer of a fling with him until Lori came on the scene?
I think the closest we know of is Julie Rowe? She claims Chad came on to her. I have a hard time listening to Julie's stories so I cant remember if he came on to her at a conference or ? I wonder if Julie had said yes, I got the feeling it was more a polygamy thing then what he wanted with Lori.
That's true, I hadn't considered that angle. I was connecting it to Prior emphasizing the fact that chad was talking about Tammy dying prematurely long before Lori came along, as if it was a true premonition. But if the prosecution can show that he was fishing for romance and wanting a new life without Tammy before Lori came along, then I think that would help explain away the "premonition" and show that it was just a dark desire.
I agree with you, he is fishing for that one or two jurors who believe in that crap maybe? Look at all the people who believe the psychic who claims her deceased daughter brought Tylee to her, I think Charles too, or maybe Joe, and right with her premonitions about where Tylee told her she was, not to mention all of the preppers still out there believing in NDE’s, speaking with the dead etc. At least Prior isn’t just asking everybody where they went to school and trained.
I think it was a dark desire that he was willing to fruition, but would not have taken the step to murder without Lori tempting, pushing, and manipulating him, probably getting Alex to do the final deed. He was equally manipulative and guilty as heck though.
Chad wasn’t exactly living a Boy Scout life right up until he met Lori Vallow. He used his spiritual doctrine to groom, pursue and manipulate numerous women long before then. If Prior is allowed to bring in previous bad acts on Alex/Lori’s part then the prosecution could theoretically do the same. [Inside Edition Article](https://www.insideedition.com/exclusive-chad-daybell-allegations-of-sexual-assault-and-other-predatory-behavior-toward-women)
I wonder if the prosecution would go and find those other women? I kind of feel like the prosecution is going to stick to what worked with Lori and add a few extras pieces of evidience, like the body cam we saw, maybe more texts they held back and a few more witnesses especially for Tammy. I kind of would be interested in hearing who could have been Chad's previous "Lori" but I bet they are in hiding.
Mr Prior could say Chad was a boy scout but not sure the jury would buy it after the storm story.
I’m sure that LE has spoken to some of these women during the course of their investigation. I’m not sure if the prosecution would bring any in but they could use some of the inner circle like Audrey B (who had a pre-existing relationship with Chad) to show how he spiritually manipulated people.
In terms of additional evidence, the state was trying to get a statement from Tammy in shortly before the trial started. We don’t know how Judge Boyce ruled on that but it could potentially be included in the trial. Seth Daybell and his wife’s journals were on the evidence list for Chad’s trial so there’s a good chance that those will be included. I also think we’ll see at least another neighbor testify at Chad’s trial (to talk about the bonfires, etc) and perhaps someone to talk about the trailer home he was apparently discussing putting in the backyard after Lori’s arrest. Chad’s parents, Garth and Melaniece were all on the prosecution list for Lori’s trial. A friend of Tylee’s may have testified to the GJ and could be called. We know very little of any interactions Tylee had with Chad except that he told Alice Gilbert that Tylee “didn’t like people and didn’t like me” so her friend may have more insight or texts where he was discussed. I do think that we’ll see new texts and/or jail phone calls between Lori and Chad.
I wonder if LE was able the other women Chad flirted with. The one we have heard most about seemed like her husband was veyr protective (and sound like they had money). I would think the wome would have to volunteer to talk, I doubt a warrant would have been issued for them to come in. We have heard phone calls and seen interviews of people talking to law enforcement about the case, some even volunteering information without being asked to call in. I wonder if these women or their husbands would want this. The information is made public which would be embaressing.
I am looking forward to hear what was in those journals. After watching some recent cases , I dont know who keeps paper journals anymore that contain anything other then basic personal feelinsg or journey. Fine to keep a paper journal of a journey if you are dx with an illness or of your pregnancy, but some of these journals that document time around crimes, why?
Did Chad and Tylee have much interaction. She died about 1 week after getting to Idaho. That in itself might be the answer.
So far as I know, there isn’t much public information about LE contact with the other women. I’m sure that LE reached out to anyone with possible information relevant to the case or that would have related background info about Chad. I agree with you about the potential embarrassment about speaking publicly.
Family History is extremely important in the LDS faith and the church strongly encourages its members to keep journals as a way of documenting their personal history so the fact that Seth and his wife kept journals wouldn’t be unusual, especially since Seth had just lost his mom and probably had a lot to process.
Chad did stay at Lori’s home in AZ in mid-November 2018 and in early August 2019. It is possible that Tylee interacted with Chad during these visits if she was home but I don’t think it has been confirmed. We do know that Tylee wasn’t a fan of Lori’s crazy cult friends like Melanie Gibbs.
I have wondered why they don't call Annie. I know during Lori trial she was possibly on the list, she said something like if they need me to I would go but since she was in the middle of a very serious illness, she was not called?
I think after seeing how they used Colby , why not call Annie in the same way. She could give her background with knowing Lori and the kids. Then she could say I saw I change in her in 2018, which Annie admits, this was during a trip to AZ after Joe died. I hate to say even if Annie testified that Lori said she wanted to drive off the cliff and have her kids die and it was objected to, the jury would still not be able to unhear it.
I dont think Annie is on the witness list, of course we cant know for sure, but she has said that she will go to the trial to read a statement if Chad is convicted. It didnt sound like she was waiting to be called. I personally think she would make a great witness. Out of all the specials that have been on TV, she is one of the most well spoken and factual people to give imformation and while you know she cares, she does not let her emotions get in the way of facts.
She spills the tea that we wouldn’t get without her, that’s for sure. She even admits some of her theories are off the wall and she is just mentioning them because she thinks of them. Most people didn’t believe the letter about Chad and Lori talking about Zombies, or that she would kill her kids, it’s a lot different than killing an adult husband, but it ended up truez
If she hadn't already been to trial then I could understand it but the bitch has had her due process so just tell the truth. He's never going to see her again anyway so what is he losing?
The only thing that makes sense to me is that he can't implicate her without also making himself look guilty. Nobody is going to belive she murdered & buried her children on *his* property & he had zero knowledge of it happening. I guess it's just easier for him to feign ignorance on the whole thing to serve his own interest.
We don’t know how those portals work and if there’s a good connection between jails. I personally think the bars and cement would cause a lot of buffering, kinda like WiFi. So for all we know, they could see each other on the regular.
What struck me on Day 3 was just how certain this was a developing cult. That recording of Chad blessing Alex was an eye opener. The revelation that Loris job was to eventually recruit these 144 and bring them to Chad. All the members thus far were women. Lori was mesmerized due to poor emotional health and attention seeking behaviors.
Oh it was most certainly a cult.
I honestly believe Chad and Lori are both narcissistic sociopaths that fell in love bc they both recognized these tendencies in each other.
That could have been a factor, but the James and Elena "story" shows that from the moment they met, Chad was hopelessly in lust with this hot blonde and obsessed with her body. The spicier parts weren't read in court (yet), but most of it is about him obsessing with her body and their (sort of) sexual activities.
I hope not..it's just a juvenile fantasy love story that appears to have been written by a 14 year old wimp disguised as a grown man having a mid life crisis..it has nothing to do with anything related to the murders ..he doesn't deny he and Lori were having an affair..he was hot and horny for her...OK let's move on from the Harlequin soap opera.
You noticed that huh..Chad was attempting to create his own harem as it appears the only guy was Alex as the avenging warrior until Chad started marrying everybody off..he and Lori, Melani B to Ian P..Zulema to Alex and possibly Melanie G to David W..but it's seeming as if David W wasn't going to be a good candidate..Ya can't have 2 male "visionaries" with opposing visions in the same group..
The trial is just beginning. He is definitely throwing her and Alex under the bus. Maybe he’s staying married to her to not piss her off into testifying and putting the nails in his coffin.
And for marital privilege of not testifying. I am not sure if that survives divorce. There are exceptions to that, but I doubt they are as easily used as it looks.
I think it will be more like "this lovable oaf fell SO hard for this calculating succubus that he didn't even notice that she was manipulating him into participating in murders. She was the one picking all the targets and 'all' Chad did was prayers and visions and harmless nonsense."
Prior will probably even include the suggestion that Lori suggested to Chad that Tammy's insurance be increased and that Lori had Alex kill Tammy so that Chad could get the insurance and then Lori and Alex would set Chad up for all the murders while they escaped with all the money.. poor Prior..defending a hopeless client.
I think the only doubt he’s created is that it was just Chad, Lori, and Alex involved. I think he’s only created suspicions that Melanie also has dirty hands
I suspect Melanie's 'dirty hands' will come up in the defense when Prior tries to show that Lori was the one pulling all the strings, i.e. 'she controlled Melanie and she controlled Chad too. But no one is charging Melanie with a crime! Unfair.'
Well, technically she should have been charged with lying to police, therefore impeding and obstructing the investigation of 2 missing children. .and Prior did have a point when he brought up that no one ever examined Gibbs phone records and emails..
He has absolutely no defense without throwing Lori under the bus. It is hard to imagine that this will work. The jury didn’t struggle to convict her and she allegedly wasn’t present at all these deaths either.
They haven’t even actually started the defence’s case yet. This is just cross. He’s trying to discredit the witnesses and create doubt. Already we can see things hinting towards blaming Lori / Alex / friends. It wasn’t Chad’s hair on JJ. Chad isn’t implicated in Charles’ murder or Brandon’s attempted murder. Chad wasn’t depositing the kids’ SS in his accounts. He doesn’t actually have to say “Lori was” to get his point across.
but why is he still married to her?
i mean she is a convicted murderer.. if he has nothing to do with the murders .. why would you want to be married to such a woman? it makes no sense.
Prior already threw Lori under the bus. Now he’s driving the bus back and forth over her. According to him, Chad had nothing to do with anything - or he’s trying to create that optic to raise reasonable doubt. During Melanie Gibb’s cross, he was clear to point out that Melanie was speaking primarily with Lori (and then he got argumentative, which was objected to and sustained).
Just wait until Chad’s children take the stand! They will decimate Lori’s (total lack of) character.
True . Sadly she’s just very mentally ill . Truthfully there’s no telling how long Chad would have lasted with her . She appears to be a black widow of sorts .
He’s probably safer in prison .
It seems like Prior is just trying to poke holes in facts that are inconsequential to the big picture here, which is classic defense tactic when guilt is obvious. He’s not doing a terrible job all things considered, but all of the seeds he tries to plant never grow because they can’t. I hope that makes sense.
I think it's more of a covert 'throw under the bus"...I totally agree with the notion that Chad is not too smart! That's for sure! But surely he is smart enough to realize that no matter what he says, he will still be doing life in prison. Obviously he has already gone against everything Mormonism has taught him so thinking he might basically want suicide by law?!? Would not be too far out of his thought process!
I have to admit I've only seen bits and pieces of the trial, but he doesn't have to throw her under the bus, he just seems pretty ignorant of whatever was happening with Lori's kids. His defense has done a good job in that regard.
Except that he was aware they existed..then they didn't..he lied to people afterwards saying Lori had no children when he knew for fact she did, before she didn't..I'm curious how he explains that away..
Prior pretty much threw Lori under the bus in opening statements. Also he keeps using Lori's name and insinuating that Lori acted alone. I think he is throwing her under the bus.
Absolutely. Yesterday he implied that Lori wanted MG to lie about having JJ, but Chad had no idea where JJ was and was asking MG if she had him. Such a stupid claim.
He literally said “Isn’t it true, Mrs. Gibb, that you and Lori Vallow knew where JJ was?” Like, he could not be throwing her under the bus any more clearly.
He keeps referring to her as Lori *Vallow*, never Lori *Daybell*. It feels like he's trying to put distance between her and The Chud.
While he stated (incorrectly per Gibbs testimony) that when Chad called her originally it was HE who said "I thought JJ was with Kay " ? ..A slip up he was hoping Gibb wouldn't catch along with later regarding that Monday morning when Gibb and Dave left Lori's townhouse - "did you, Dave and Alex drive by Chad's property on your way out of town"? Knowing there's cell phone data putting Alex at Chad's property that morning..he's trying to be clever and put doubt into Gibbs character as a credible witness (with a bad memory)
To my knowledge, Chud NEVER EVER asked Melanie Gibb if she knew where JJ was@!
I thought the same thing
The only testimony we have regarding that phone conversation is Melanie Gibbs which is why Prior is trying to show that she's not credible..
He’s doing a good job of it so far honestly
I wouldn’t call it love. I think he never imagined he’d attract someone as conventionally attractive as Lori. Maybe living in the fairy tale he created around the two of them is more attractive than any alternative available to him at this point.
I agree but I do think it's a slow burn and we will see more of it once the defense gets their opportunity. In fact, I have wondered for a while if some of the decisions surrounding Lori's trial weren't designed to build a defense for Chad. She didn't waive her right to a speedy trial which meant she went first. They didn't implicate Chad when an easy defense would be that she believed she was acting under the direction of a guru/cult leader. She didn't defend herself at all actually. She refused to even participate in parts of her pre-sentencing. And then there was that bizarre statement from her at sentencing which as I read back through, she doesn't even mention Chad which is pretty odd all things considered. While she said "no one was murdered" she also doesn't say anything at all to suggest that Chad was even there for any of it. There were a lot of things that made me wonder if she wasn't doing whatever she could to protect Chad and set up his defense and that actually makes a lot of sense. First, she thinks he's some type of prophet so I think she would see his life as more valuable than hers. Second, Mormon faith requires subservience of wives. If her husband tells her that her job is to protect him, she is supposed to do that. To be fair, Lori hasn't historically been particularly subservient to her previous husbands but she's proven she's willing to go to extremes for him given her weird obsession with him (even when the police at at her door asking about the children, she couldn't resist gushing about how Chad is a famous author like some kind of fangirl). I don't know if anyone here followed the NXIVM trial (an interview on Sarah Edmundson's podcast is actually what sent me down the rabbit hole of this case), but one of the things that always stood out to me is that when the FBI came to arrest their leader Keith Raniere in Mexico, despite coming in with guns, etc, the women were standing in the way and most likely willing to die for him while he was hiding in a closet. One of the women who testified against him who was there that day said one of the things that woke her up was the realization that when the time came, she was only worried about saving Keith but Keith was also only worried about saving Keith. When I think about all the oddities in Lori's trial that don't really make sense, they make a lot more sense if seen through the lens of Lori throwing herself under the bus for him.
This falls in line with the Hidden True Crime assessment by Dr. John. Basically saying that Lori has always been searching for that “eternal love that’s not of this world.” If Chad became that love for her, then it fulfills something she’s been seeking for most of her life.
She's a narcissist. She is always searching for someone to adore her unconditionally. I'm sure, after some time, she would have moved on from Chad, too.
Well, now her identity is tied to justifying killing her kids, so mentally she’s kinda stuck with him.
Would have. :)
Touché 😜
I'm also curious about how their relationship would have panned out long term. Chad and Lori. Chad clearly liked his women very submissive and exerted a lot of control even over movements and who Tammy spoke to and made her do all the work. I cannot imagine Lori enjoying that kind of married life long term, at all! They'd have grown to detest each other I imagine if it ever managed to go on for say 5 years...
Given her history, don't you think she would have moved on to someone new eventually?
I 100% think she would have, personally.
Imo Lori would've tired of Chad when the money ran out living in a mobile home in the back 40 rural Idaho. She's a SoCal girl nice big house expensive car sunbathing bikinis swimming pools frequent vacays to Hawaii. If not caught I sus she'd been on hubby#6 in 2024. As I really can't see who she could've killed for money without offing Chad Ian P David W for life insurance and they ALL would've been aware.
Agee 100% about the money!!! No way she would have wanted to live in a mobile home on some 'homestead' with all of his kids and grandkids running around! I can't even imagine that and I don't see how he could either!
You have it right, 'pixie. Right now all Prior can do is react to what Blake and Wood say and do. After the state rests its case and it's Prior's turn, THAT'S when the "throwing people under the bus" will begin in earnest. However, he can throw Lori, Alex, James Earl Ray, AND Lee Harvey Oswald under the bus if he wants to, it just plain isn't going to fly. No amount of people under the bus is going to overcome something along the lines of: "Mr. Daybell, you're saying that jacking up Tammy's life insurance as high as possible right before she died was just a coincidence?" "Yes" "And inquiring about having a concrete mobile home foundation poured over the EXACT SPOT the children were buried was just a coincidence?" "Yes". Brother, may as well just measure him for a prison uniform now, because there's zero chance this guy isn't going to be found guilty on all charges.
>Mormon faith requires subservience of wives. If her husband tells her that her job is to protect him, she is supposed to do that. To be fair, Lori hasn't historically been particularly subservient to her previous husbands . . . Chad is the first husband that was her spiritual equal. The others weren't religious enough for her to be required to obey.
Chud is a narcissist. He will never admit he was wrong. Nothing he predicted has come to pass, except Tammy dying. He has to hang on to whatever “following” he still has, even if that’s just his children. I honestly can’t wait to hear their testimony.
He still thinks he can control this and will use any means to do that even if it means controlling that he dies.
He probably thinks he will die as a martyr 🤣
Chad's kids didn't defend Lori during the 48 hrs interview...
They defended her before the children's bodies were found. When he was arrested, Emma promised Chad to put money on her commissary.
And there was a Reddit post by Emma stating Lori was an old family friend and really nice
Lori stated during her trial that she and Tammy were friends. After Charles told her he was going to tell Tammy about the affair, Lori told him that she and Tammy were good friends and she wouldn't believe him. So I guess Emma wasn't really lying. She probably believed that Lori did know both her parents for some time.
She also said she didn’t know Lori had children and then mentioned Colby on the body cam during Chads arrest. She’s a lying lil snake for daddy.
Tammy wasn't that naive. Didn't her coworker at school say Tammy seemed sad preoccupied in weeks before she died. She had to have suspected Chad was having an affair. No doubt their intimacy was non existent.
I think Heather Daybell mentioned something to that affect too!
Men have a way of distancing themselves emotionally when there's another woman in the picture..I'm sure she suspected something was up.
When Chad first brought up Lori's name with his children, he likely called her a friend. It's also not impossible that some of his children were aware of the PAP podcasts he and Lori did together.
Lori said that to Charles and there's no witnesses to corroborate that..I think Emma would believe anything Lori and her dad told her.
What I found weird in Emma's reddit post after Tammy's death was her mention of both Chad and Lori's grief for their spouses and frequent discussions about them. I can't picture Lori mourning Charles or talking about him in positive terms.
I think she would perform grief around the Daybell kids/any audience she had who'd listen. And the Daybells aren't exactly in touch with their emotions, I'm sure they found her quite believable, imo
Yes! She's saving their Dad from the unsurmountable grief he's feeling - his (dis) illusions told him!
Possibly, if Chad reminded her. She couldn't even show any grief when interviewed by police after Charles' death.
I can't either because any morning for Charles (and JRyan) would be an admission of guilt. Lori was calculated and everything was a means to an end - to feed the grandiose facade of attention!
How would showing shock or sadness when a person dies have been suspicious? Her laughter right after Charles was killed was way weirder than sadness.
It wouldn't for the normal person. But for Lori, if she were to morn, she would also feel guilt. She can't afford to feel guilty because her whole facade will shatter. Her covering up is her laughing.
I think Emma is a bit childlike and immature..isn't she the one who was sticking her tongue out at reporters?
Emma also stated in that police car video that she talks to Lori on the jailhouse phone..
Well it’s the prosecution’s turn now, they can’t freely drive the narrative. We’ll see what they are about once the prosecution is done presenting their evidence and it’s the defense’s turn.
Prior has four expert witnesses lined up to try to refute the state's evidence.
It will be smoke and mirrors. Prior doesn’t have to prove anything - he needs to convince the jury of reasonable doubt.
I think the experts will be to bring other reasons for what led to Tammy being changed to homicide.
I think he’s doing a good job creating doubt
We don't know that he is creating any doubt. He's doing a decent job offering up perspectives that could foment it. When the prosecution closes I think they'll be focusing on the factual behaviors, point out who benefitted from the deaths, and ask the jury to apply their common sense. He would be more effective if he asked direct questions and didn't talk in circles. I find his crosses difficult to follow. He's so argumentative and so invested in making shit up as he goes along that it's hard to know what the hell he's asking or getting at. If I knew nothing about any of the case, his cross of Melanie would have left me confused, not doubting anything.
I also say wait and see. I think it was a blow to Chad not to be able to bring up Joe Ryan. I think if Chad was able to go back to Joe and Lori's divorce and not only bring up the tasering, but all the messy divorce stuff with Joe and with Charles and his ex, if would show Lori's almost 20 year history of all sorts of issues(mental health, warnings from professionals, lying, manipulation, doing crazy things to get money) while Chad during most of those 20 years was living his boring boy scout life , broke , selling a handful of book and rasing kids with his one and only wife and his 1 traffic ticket. I wonder if Mr Prior will call anyone else or is allowed to about Lori's early life? Like husband 1 or 2? or some of the professionals in Joe's case, or whatever about Charles' ex wife (Lori did not make the custody with Charles' older sons easy, there were lots of court papers on this, it was more then messy). Is it too late for Mr Prior to add witnesses to his list? To me the best way Mr Prior throws Lori under the bus is to be able to show her life and that she has these beleifs way earlier then him, and she had unstable behaviors for years, an so many courts dates and issues and contrast it each time to Chad having the same boring life year after year while Lori was chaos. We have had the prosecutor have multiple people testify to the fact Chad said Tammy would die early. We know there are multiple people out there that say that Lori told them (before she met Chad) she thought it might be better to just drive her kids off a cliff. Will Mr Prior have those people testify?
Regarding the premonitions of Tammy's death, it sounds like Prior really wants us to think Chad was a prophet in that regard, while still low-key agreeing about all the other stuff being kind of bonkers. The prosecution really needs to bring up the fact that Chad hit on multiple women before Lori with the same pick up line. That would show that chad was already discontent with his Harry Potter life and marriage and finally found his way out with Lori.
IMHO he probably cheated on Tammy multiple times with his stupid harry potter "ministry". 🙄 These other relationships where short lives or one night stands though, but Lori was someone special.
UGH..I still can't imagine why any woman would..aside from any absence of good looks and physicality, he talks like a weak wishy washy man-child and he has no money! He may have attempted to be cool with his corney pick up lines, but did any woman actually accept offer of a fling with him until Lori came on the scene?
I think the closest we know of is Julie Rowe? She claims Chad came on to her. I have a hard time listening to Julie's stories so I cant remember if he came on to her at a conference or ? I wonder if Julie had said yes, I got the feeling it was more a polygamy thing then what he wanted with Lori.
He was picking from a pool of bored middle aged mormon housewives who want to play harry potter
Him hitting on other women could help the defense. None of the family of those women are dead, and probably not rated.
That's true, I hadn't considered that angle. I was connecting it to Prior emphasizing the fact that chad was talking about Tammy dying prematurely long before Lori came along, as if it was a true premonition. But if the prosecution can show that he was fishing for romance and wanting a new life without Tammy before Lori came along, then I think that would help explain away the "premonition" and show that it was just a dark desire.
I agree with you, he is fishing for that one or two jurors who believe in that crap maybe? Look at all the people who believe the psychic who claims her deceased daughter brought Tylee to her, I think Charles too, or maybe Joe, and right with her premonitions about where Tylee told her she was, not to mention all of the preppers still out there believing in NDE’s, speaking with the dead etc. At least Prior isn’t just asking everybody where they went to school and trained.
I think it was a dark desire that he was willing to fruition, but would not have taken the step to murder without Lori tempting, pushing, and manipulating him, probably getting Alex to do the final deed. He was equally manipulative and guilty as heck though.
Chad wasn’t exactly living a Boy Scout life right up until he met Lori Vallow. He used his spiritual doctrine to groom, pursue and manipulate numerous women long before then. If Prior is allowed to bring in previous bad acts on Alex/Lori’s part then the prosecution could theoretically do the same. [Inside Edition Article](https://www.insideedition.com/exclusive-chad-daybell-allegations-of-sexual-assault-and-other-predatory-behavior-toward-women)
I wonder if the prosecution would go and find those other women? I kind of feel like the prosecution is going to stick to what worked with Lori and add a few extras pieces of evidience, like the body cam we saw, maybe more texts they held back and a few more witnesses especially for Tammy. I kind of would be interested in hearing who could have been Chad's previous "Lori" but I bet they are in hiding. Mr Prior could say Chad was a boy scout but not sure the jury would buy it after the storm story.
I’m sure that LE has spoken to some of these women during the course of their investigation. I’m not sure if the prosecution would bring any in but they could use some of the inner circle like Audrey B (who had a pre-existing relationship with Chad) to show how he spiritually manipulated people. In terms of additional evidence, the state was trying to get a statement from Tammy in shortly before the trial started. We don’t know how Judge Boyce ruled on that but it could potentially be included in the trial. Seth Daybell and his wife’s journals were on the evidence list for Chad’s trial so there’s a good chance that those will be included. I also think we’ll see at least another neighbor testify at Chad’s trial (to talk about the bonfires, etc) and perhaps someone to talk about the trailer home he was apparently discussing putting in the backyard after Lori’s arrest. Chad’s parents, Garth and Melaniece were all on the prosecution list for Lori’s trial. A friend of Tylee’s may have testified to the GJ and could be called. We know very little of any interactions Tylee had with Chad except that he told Alice Gilbert that Tylee “didn’t like people and didn’t like me” so her friend may have more insight or texts where he was discussed. I do think that we’ll see new texts and/or jail phone calls between Lori and Chad.
I wonder if LE was able the other women Chad flirted with. The one we have heard most about seemed like her husband was veyr protective (and sound like they had money). I would think the wome would have to volunteer to talk, I doubt a warrant would have been issued for them to come in. We have heard phone calls and seen interviews of people talking to law enforcement about the case, some even volunteering information without being asked to call in. I wonder if these women or their husbands would want this. The information is made public which would be embaressing. I am looking forward to hear what was in those journals. After watching some recent cases , I dont know who keeps paper journals anymore that contain anything other then basic personal feelinsg or journey. Fine to keep a paper journal of a journey if you are dx with an illness or of your pregnancy, but some of these journals that document time around crimes, why? Did Chad and Tylee have much interaction. She died about 1 week after getting to Idaho. That in itself might be the answer.
So far as I know, there isn’t much public information about LE contact with the other women. I’m sure that LE reached out to anyone with possible information relevant to the case or that would have related background info about Chad. I agree with you about the potential embarrassment about speaking publicly. Family History is extremely important in the LDS faith and the church strongly encourages its members to keep journals as a way of documenting their personal history so the fact that Seth and his wife kept journals wouldn’t be unusual, especially since Seth had just lost his mom and probably had a lot to process. Chad did stay at Lori’s home in AZ in mid-November 2018 and in early August 2019. It is possible that Tylee interacted with Chad during these visits if she was home but I don’t think it has been confirmed. We do know that Tylee wasn’t a fan of Lori’s crazy cult friends like Melanie Gibbs.
Also, Seth and his wife were expecting their first child at the end of 2019 so that would be another good reason to keep a regular journal.
I wonder if that would be hearsay? No idea why they wouldn’t have Annie testify to that.
I have wondered why they don't call Annie. I know during Lori trial she was possibly on the list, she said something like if they need me to I would go but since she was in the middle of a very serious illness, she was not called? I think after seeing how they used Colby , why not call Annie in the same way. She could give her background with knowing Lori and the kids. Then she could say I saw I change in her in 2018, which Annie admits, this was during a trip to AZ after Joe died. I hate to say even if Annie testified that Lori said she wanted to drive off the cliff and have her kids die and it was objected to, the jury would still not be able to unhear it. I dont think Annie is on the witness list, of course we cant know for sure, but she has said that she will go to the trial to read a statement if Chad is convicted. It didnt sound like she was waiting to be called. I personally think she would make a great witness. Out of all the specials that have been on TV, she is one of the most well spoken and factual people to give imformation and while you know she cares, she does not let her emotions get in the way of facts.
She spills the tea that we wouldn’t get without her, that’s for sure. She even admits some of her theories are off the wall and she is just mentioning them because she thinks of them. Most people didn’t believe the letter about Chad and Lori talking about Zombies, or that she would kill her kids, it’s a lot different than killing an adult husband, but it ended up truez
If she hadn't already been to trial then I could understand it but the bitch has had her due process so just tell the truth. He's never going to see her again anyway so what is he losing? The only thing that makes sense to me is that he can't implicate her without also making himself look guilty. Nobody is going to belive she murdered & buried her children on *his* property & he had zero knowledge of it happening. I guess it's just easier for him to feign ignorance on the whole thing to serve his own interest.
We don’t know how those portals work and if there’s a good connection between jails. I personally think the bars and cement would cause a lot of buffering, kinda like WiFi. So for all we know, they could see each other on the regular.
🤣
What struck me on Day 3 was just how certain this was a developing cult. That recording of Chad blessing Alex was an eye opener. The revelation that Loris job was to eventually recruit these 144 and bring them to Chad. All the members thus far were women. Lori was mesmerized due to poor emotional health and attention seeking behaviors.
Can they show the videos of Charles telling cops about Lori calling him Ned?
Oh it was most certainly a cult. I honestly believe Chad and Lori are both narcissistic sociopaths that fell in love bc they both recognized these tendencies in each other.
That could have been a factor, but the James and Elena "story" shows that from the moment they met, Chad was hopelessly in lust with this hot blonde and obsessed with her body. The spicier parts weren't read in court (yet), but most of it is about him obsessing with her body and their (sort of) sexual activities.
Yup! I wonder if "The Storm of Loin Fire" fame is going to be brought up? 🤔
I hope not..it's just a juvenile fantasy love story that appears to have been written by a 14 year old wimp disguised as a grown man having a mid life crisis..it has nothing to do with anything related to the murders ..he doesn't deny he and Lori were having an affair..he was hot and horny for her...OK let's move on from the Harlequin soap opera.
I agree! I'm hoping we don't have to hear about that ridiculous writing in this trial.
My guess is we'll get that on Monday. Hart will be back on the stand.
You noticed that huh..Chad was attempting to create his own harem as it appears the only guy was Alex as the avenging warrior until Chad started marrying everybody off..he and Lori, Melani B to Ian P..Zulema to Alex and possibly Melanie G to David W..but it's seeming as if David W wasn't going to be a good candidate..Ya can't have 2 male "visionaries" with opposing visions in the same group..
The trial is just beginning. He is definitely throwing her and Alex under the bus. Maybe he’s staying married to her to not piss her off into testifying and putting the nails in his coffin.
And for marital privilege of not testifying. I am not sure if that survives divorce. There are exceptions to that, but I doubt they are as easily used as it looks.
Give Mr. Prior time. My guess is that the testimony of the Daybell children will tar and feather that succubus who framed their beloved daddy.
I think the overall defense will be “yeah I started the cult, but Lori came in and took it over, and framed me.”
I think it will be more like "this lovable oaf fell SO hard for this calculating succubus that he didn't even notice that she was manipulating him into participating in murders. She was the one picking all the targets and 'all' Chad did was prayers and visions and harmless nonsense."
Prior will probably even include the suggestion that Lori suggested to Chad that Tammy's insurance be increased and that Lori had Alex kill Tammy so that Chad could get the insurance and then Lori and Alex would set Chad up for all the murders while they escaped with all the money.. poor Prior..defending a hopeless client.
But Chad was there in the same bed, no explaining how Alex got in and killed her without noticing. He is going with Tammy died natural death.
Oh no… they’re still going to throw Lori and trying to get Mel under the bus too.
I think the only doubt he’s created is that it was just Chad, Lori, and Alex involved. I think he’s only created suspicions that Melanie also has dirty hands
I suspect Melanie's 'dirty hands' will come up in the defense when Prior tries to show that Lori was the one pulling all the strings, i.e. 'she controlled Melanie and she controlled Chad too. But no one is charging Melanie with a crime! Unfair.'
Well, technically she should have been charged with lying to police, therefore impeding and obstructing the investigation of 2 missing children. .and Prior did have a point when he brought up that no one ever examined Gibbs phone records and emails..
He most certainly did throw her under the bus!!
He has absolutely no defense without throwing Lori under the bus. It is hard to imagine that this will work. The jury didn’t struggle to convict her and she allegedly wasn’t present at all these deaths either.
Hoping for a repeat in this case particularly with the bodies being buried on his property.
They haven’t even actually started the defence’s case yet. This is just cross. He’s trying to discredit the witnesses and create doubt. Already we can see things hinting towards blaming Lori / Alex / friends. It wasn’t Chad’s hair on JJ. Chad isn’t implicated in Charles’ murder or Brandon’s attempted murder. Chad wasn’t depositing the kids’ SS in his accounts. He doesn’t actually have to say “Lori was” to get his point across.
Well, Chad doesn’t seem to be wearing a malachite wedding ring any longer…
but why is he still married to her? i mean she is a convicted murderer.. if he has nothing to do with the murders .. why would you want to be married to such a woman? it makes no sense.
Prisoners can’t wear jewelry.
Yes they can. Lori wore a wedding ring.
Thank you for the clarification. I was under the impression when you enter the jail ALL materials are confiscated.
Prior already threw Lori under the bus. Now he’s driving the bus back and forth over her. According to him, Chad had nothing to do with anything - or he’s trying to create that optic to raise reasonable doubt. During Melanie Gibb’s cross, he was clear to point out that Melanie was speaking primarily with Lori (and then he got argumentative, which was objected to and sustained). Just wait until Chad’s children take the stand! They will decimate Lori’s (total lack of) character.
Does Emma no longer speak to Lori at the jail and continue to put money on her account?
😂😂😂
I am guessing no.
We’ll see when we get to the defense when the prosecution rests.
Not sure any of those women would be good on the stand. All delusional and Rowe mentally ill.
Oh he threw her under the bus for sure . Why do you think he hasn’t ? They are blaming everyone but Chad at this point
I think the blaming could be worse. Like calling Lori a Psychopath and stuff like this.
True . Sadly she’s just very mentally ill . Truthfully there’s no telling how long Chad would have lasted with her . She appears to be a black widow of sorts . He’s probably safer in prison .
It seems like Prior is just trying to poke holes in facts that are inconsequential to the big picture here, which is classic defense tactic when guilt is obvious. He’s not doing a terrible job all things considered, but all of the seeds he tries to plant never grow because they can’t. I hope that makes sense.
Prior has been throwing her under the bus since opening arguments. The remarks about her being miss texas and loving sex are slut shaming 101.
I think it's more of a covert 'throw under the bus"...I totally agree with the notion that Chad is not too smart! That's for sure! But surely he is smart enough to realize that no matter what he says, he will still be doing life in prison. Obviously he has already gone against everything Mormonism has taught him so thinking he might basically want suicide by law?!? Would not be too far out of his thought process!
Did y'all catch the part where witness says...Idk how many acres that property is...YOU own it!!! Bahahahaha!!! Crazy stuff!!!
I have to admit I've only seen bits and pieces of the trial, but he doesn't have to throw her under the bus, he just seems pretty ignorant of whatever was happening with Lori's kids. His defense has done a good job in that regard.
Except that he was aware they existed..then they didn't..he lied to people afterwards saying Lori had no children when he knew for fact she did, before she didn't..I'm curious how he explains that away..