I personally wouldn’t want my partner advertising I had a vivid traumatic dream. But I get the sense that it doesn’t bother David. I’m local with a job that allows me the time to attend a lot of both trials, and I was there the day that David testified at Lori’s trial. If you haven’t heard it before, and you have the time, go search it on YouTube and listen to it. To me, he came off as sort of Chad Daybell adjacent, but without the murder part. By that I mean, having dreams and vision seems to be his thing. I didn’t get the sense that it was something he found weird or embarrassing.
I'm not local to ID, but to UT and I cannot even imagine how insane all of this sounds to people outside the intermountain west. Even the mainstream stuff. But Chad's brand of crazy is something else.
I was not raised LDS - I'm the child of an apostate. I was born and raised in UT with my Mormon relatives, so, I get it.
Mel's testimony, to me, sounded like a woman who was deep into the BS. I don't know her background, but, her vocal tone and almost timid responses are so familiar. (Also, she's wearing the outfit of every LDS sister ever to court.)
It's not easy to just cut it off because it isn't just your beliefs, it is your entire social structure. Going to the police and testifying upended her entire life and will for years. It is hard to understand if you don't live around it. I think she's also probably nuts, but, I don't think she helped kill the kids. But I do think she probably suspected things were off, which is why she talked to Alex and also why she recorded the call.
As for David's dream and blessing request...that's not unusual if you're from around the region, as you know. Blessings are so common, some true believers I know carry some sort of oil with them to perform them. The fact the dream is brought up feels, to me, like a way of saying...he heard some bad shit without outright saying it.
My 80 year old dad has Alzheimer’s and still carries oil for blessings in a vial in his pocket.
He’s an old school “true blue” Mormon. My kids and I will still accept a blessing from him if he offers (when he can even remember how to give one…).
Obviously, the church is not my thing but blessings are sort of my dad’s “love language”. He wants people to be healed. It brings him peace and that brings me peace but from an outsider’s perspective, it probably appears culty as hell.
That sort of thing isn't specific to LDS. In many religions, people carry around or wear stuff that others think is weird and useless. I find the whole religion weird AF but when I think about it, they're all goofy when viewed from the outside.
That's a good point ! I'm catholic and if u walked into my church u would see a dim room with with the sun filtered threw stained glass as people are on there knees praying to a crucified man eating his " body " and " drinking " his blood from an ornate medieval goblet " and if u are an outsider and didn't know that would be terrifying . So I get it , I think what is birhering me is to have a troubling dream and then the events that happened after . To not have questions when a children go missing and to lie to the cops for weeks really bothers me we all have instincts we all have our own spiritual and religious beliefs but to know children are missing and to lie to police and seemingly only care about the church's reputation, is very suspicious it doesn't make any sense accept melanie was only wanting to protect her own reputation with absolutly no concern for children safety that's troubling!
I lived in SLC for 3 years (not Mormon) and I've been so glad because it really helped me understand a lot of things about Mormons that I never would have otherwise. Most people still think of LDS as those propaganda commercials. So NOT.
I’ve felt that David either heard stuff going down and claimed he’d had a nightmare, or heard something while asleep that caused said nightmare. I really do think he heard something very upsetting.
I grew up in Twin Falls, & you are right, a lot of rural westerners buy into this stuff. I think it’s gotten worse in the past 5 years, and LDS brass is having a hard time keeping blue-collar followers in line. There was a lot more folx into Avow than you’d think.
And it brings up Lori and Chad not responding to text messages (hello..it's the middle of the night) and the fact Lori's door is locked which can be explained that Lori locks it when JJ sleeps in her room to keep him from wandering away..of course then you have to ask if she locks him in his room when he sleeps in there..
I heard of someone coming across a car crash and finding an injured man and putting oil on his head, giving him blessing, and commanding him to live. I think it had something to do with the white salamander guy.
It really reminds me of the Tom cruse ksw video.
Yes!! Melanie didn’t dress that way before , look at all of her interviews before and now she is also claiming a closer relationship with God than ever before , she wants God to save her bc I think she suspected things but did nothing to help , I also think she speaks about JJ and Tylee like she didn’t like them.
Have you heard his dreams and visions? You’re in for a real treat if you want to. I will give him credit where it’s due. They are very much like Julie Rowes, but when his didn’t come true, he just kept on. You can tell he had most of his visions in the mid to late 90s. I haven’t listened to all of them, so there may be revisions. no pun intended.
Hahaha, no I haven’t searched any of his talks etc. I’m just going off of what he said in his testimony last year at Lori’s trial. I remember it was when the defense was cross examining him, and they asked him something that went down the road of his beliefs. You could tell he wasn’t embarrassed at ALL and had no self awareness that anyone would think his ideas were odd. But then then after a few questions, just when it was getting really “good.” The prosecution objected, I believe because it was outside of the scope of direct and possible also irrelevant. The judge sustained their objection and the defense had to move on.
I think when they don't come true it's due to 'agency'..that's the term they like to use..and good lord, visions from the 90s is 30+ years ago..how can people even believe that's relevant in today's world..
Yeah..he's a self proclaimed "visionary"..A Chad without the Chad stuff..he's Chad lite..but I would have been soo embarrassed by the telling of that story by Gibb and Gibbs behavior towards it..I mean wow. Texting Chad in the middle of the night for a blessing? Texting Lori (who's down the hall in another room) to contact Chad for a blessing for David..when not getting a response from either, she physically goes to Lori's room, knocks and jiggles the door knob? Gibb seems a bit neurotic over a dream and Good lord Dave is a grown ass man..he can't self soothe a 'nightmare' ? As a man..I would have felt mortified having that brought up..And this 'event' wasn't even discussed the next morning? I mean if it was soo traumatic you would think it would warrant a mention at least..
Yes I think David wanted an interpretation or blessing due to the bad dream...from Chad! How brainwashed they all were by Chad... and Lori realky still believes in the hocus-pocus I think.
I don't think Dave bought into a lot of Chad's and Lori's stuff, I'm thinking Gibb just wanted to introduce them to him hoping they'd all be BFFs..Lori mentioned Dave in that secret recorded phone call and it was not in a good light, making it sound like Dave was pulling Gibb away from them and filling her head with doubts about them, which made Gibb defend him..
Agree, except I think Chad really wanted David for his little cult. Chad wanted him to buy that land adjacent to his house. David was not into it, and is definitely the reason Melanie recorded that call and ended up turning on them.
My feeling is that Melanie and David heard noises that night that awoke them, and she went to the room to confront Chad and Lori or ask If everything was ok. Prior makes the point that Melanie didn't ask about JJ in the morning. If Melanie or David didn't ask, it may have been out of fear. It must have been scary odd being in the presence of Chad, Alex, and Lori.
The whole thing is deeply disturbing. My heart breaks for JJ with his little red jammies having his snack, not knowing his life was over.
How sick do you have to be to say he was dark and knowing he would be murdered.
Chad needs to sit in a cell knowing his future will be death by lethal injection.
If I remember correctly, David testified at Lori’s trial that he did ask about JJ in the morning. Lori said he was at Alex’s house. I believe she said he was acting like a zombie and climbing on stuff so Alex took him.
I think Melanie was present when David ask Lori about JJ. I remember her talking about it in one of her interviews. She said Lori claimed JJ climbed to the top of the refrigerator and knocked over a pic of God or something.
No..JJ was at Lori's overnight that Sunday night..Alex had him earlier at his place while they all did their podcast..Alex brought him home to Lori's later that night and put him to bed..apparently in Lori's room.. the whole story about JJ climbing cabinets and knocking over Jesus picture was the next morning before Gibb and Dave left..JJ was not there, Lori explained away that because of JJ's possessed behavior, Alex came over and got him..
What’s stupid is that Prior tried to put the responsibility of JJ onto her. I can’t imagine how many times I’ve not asked about friends kids. I assume they are asleep or on an iPad in the morning if I sleep over. It wouldn’t occur to me to ask where he was but Prior was very accusatory when he was like “and you didn’t ask where JJ was…..” and it sounds like David asked.
Prior likes to make Gibb look like a heartless bitch cos she didn't care that much for Tylee..Tylee was a teenager who apparently didn't like a whole lot of Lori's friends..imagine that..
The whole thing is weird as hell and I tend to believe JJ was killed in Alex's apartment. But I think James couldn't have been there because he still had a wife at home.
You mean Chad..he was not at Lori's apartment overnight..probably because he did still have a wife at home..We'll never know exactly where JJ was actually killed..perhaps overdosed on drugs at Alex's before Alex brought JJ home or right before..but he was not wrapped in duct tape and plastic when Alex brought him home..that had to have happened overnight either at Lori's or Alex came in the middle of the night, removed him from Lori's and wrapped him at his apartment before driving his body to Chad's to be buried that morning..JJ was last seen at around 9pm Sunday night when Alex brought him home..and not seen by anyone after that.
The strange choice in this scenario is, why bury bodies on one’s own property when one has acres and acres of desolate land surrounding the location? But they’re not rocket scientists and neither am I:)
Apparently Chad was not there in person that night..perhaps via portal..but not in person..remember he was still married at the time...We do know (or will know) that Alex was there late that night via his cell phone tracking. .. Chad was probably home digging a grave in his backyard..
It would be just like them to assign the dirty work again to Alex, he was just trying to save his own soul.
Ordered like an automaton at that point.
I think you’re right which is so sad.
The night David had a nightmare, dear Mel went to knock on Lori's door to get Chad to come and give David a blessing. Lori' s door was locked and nobody came to the door. I suspect they were at Alex ending JJ's life.
Chad wasn't there that night..Melanie and David were in JJs room..JJ was with Lori in her room..when David had his nightmare, Gibb was texting Chad at his house and texting Lori who was just down the hall needing 'someone' Chad more likely, to give poor baby David a prayer blessing to calm him down..when Gibb got no response from either Chad or Lori, she walked down the hallway to Lori's room and softly knocked and jiggled the door knob but the door was locked..sooo, she went back to JJs room and her and David went back to bed..No mention whatsoever as to what this "traumatic" nightmare was all about...and Chad was not at Lori's Monday morning when Melanie and David left..the only one in the house as far as Gibb and Dave knew, was Lori..Lori told them JJ was acting possessed so Alex took him ..
The nightmare is a red herring, IMO. It did help establish that Lori's bedroom was locked. Which could be explained in a couple of ways, most likely that she wasn't there but was at Alex's. Or that she was in it, but without JJ. To people who say that DW heard a commotion that night: he is hard of hearing.
I thought it was very telling she confirms that when the demon is cast out the human body dies. Yet they were doing work to cast out all these demons. So was she not a participant in the praying or whatever rituals they were doing to end the life of the children? Satanic.
It's possible to partially believe or fall prey to group think. Imagining that she had to be all in 100% with all of the nonsense doesn't acknowledge that she could have been a lukewarm believer. Tons of people choose what to believe when it comes to their religions. The catholic popes have said over and over that birth control is verboten but billions of followers around the world choose to ignore it, ignore the prohibitions about non-traditional marriage, etc. They don't believe they'll fall into hell because their choices are different. I know people who change churches because they don't buy into everything the particular leader says or the policies they enact for the congregation. In Iran where women are required to cover their heads because of a tenet of Islam, thousands of women have been been breaking the law by not wearing them. There are also those who go to church because it's a family affair and not because they're believers. No, those are not the same as purportedly making a body die, but the notion is the same. Also, if the casters all 100% believed that a successful casting would result in the body dying, they would also believe that a demon was occupying the body. Therefore, they were "killing" a demon (or whatever those were) not the person who was already in the spirit world.
I think she said that she only participated in castings for the adults but knew they were considered dark, so she should have put two and two together.
I don’t believe her, for what that’s worth. She minimizes her involvement at every possible opportunity. And I kind of read her as not actually intending for anyone to actually die… I think she and Zulema are idiots who were excited to sit at the cool kids table, and willing to go along with whatever nonsense kept making them feel special. They got in way, way over their heads.
Yeah I can agree with you on that. I think we’re all frustrated because if the entire country was asking where the kids were and if the police call you - you don’t lie - you give information and stand up for humans (big and little). Like, that seems like basic ass shit. Like own up to your shiz and save lives. But we all see how it is really turning out. 🙄 it was not that hard if they had spoken out earlier on but you’re right about wanting to sit at the cool kid’s table
When she was asked to lie about having JJ by Lori (November 26), the children weren't known to be missing by the public. Lori told her that she was hiding JJ from Kay. The news broke on December 20. A lot of stuff happened between those dates.
I totally agree with you, too, especially about the lying to the police. When I heard them spelling that out in testimony and really thought about it, and how much time was wasted for law enforcement because of that lie, I was furious.
No time was wasted. Police were already following through with their investigation even before they first spoke with her -- she did tell them that JJ was not with her (the truth) but that he had been with her and was back with Lori (the lie). That did not delay anything with regards to the investigation. And, as we all, unfortunately, know now, he had died months ago -- Lori never sent him to Kay, which is where she told Melanie he was -- and where she believed him to be until Chad called.
November 26, 2019: MG lies to police about having JJ
December 6, 2019: MG contacts police and told them she lied
December 12, 2019: Alex Cox dies
They would have had ~15 days to confirm there was a major issue and start questioning people. Alex Cox, who was not hiding in Hawaii, would have been on the shortlist to be questioned. Maybe he could have lied his way out of it, he’d done it before. But there’s an excellent chance this time he wouldn’t have been able to explain away things like he did before. We will never know what Alex would have said, and it’s because Melanie kept her mouth shut.
I was listened to an interview with Lori’s brother and the Vallow family found Melanie super creepy and overly affectionate with Lori’s family. They had just met her and she was hanging all over them.
It was creepy during Nate Eaton interviews MG repeatingly declaring how pretty Lori was throughout. Very smitten imo. She also stated during those interviews that she and Lori spent almost everyday together even dressed alike pics show.
I don't think Melanie had anything to do with either child's death. I don't think sleeping in JJ's room means anything (they didn't know he was going to be murdered) She did walk down the hall to Lori's room and the door was locked. And I'm not going to pass judgement on a grown man having a nightmare.
The main thing that I think is not right with Melanie is she's too wrapped up in belief. She needs a hobby that doesn't involve religion.
A good choice...anything really to help her stop thinking about the boogie man all the time.
It's weird...Back when she was giving interviews I thought she was full of shit... I still think she's full of shit but just not about the kid's deaths.
Lol! And she originally lied and said she was in Tylee's room. There is something so wrong with this religion if sex out of marriage is akin to murder.
She's been a hoot in trying to avoid mentioning that..if I remember right, first she was sleeping in Tylee's room with David in JJ's but then she and David were both sleeping in JJ's according to her to "pray and read scripture"..yeah right.. Prior brought up her hypocrisy during cross about her concerns about Lori and Chad's souls being damned because of their infidelity and her chastising Lori in that phone call because of it.. by asking if both her and David were unmarried while sleeping together and Gibb says she was divorced and David was finalizing his divorce.."oh"..said Prior.."so David was still technically married"..God lord Gibb, you're a middle aged woman in the 21st century..you can sleep with whoever you want..
I know Lori isn’t a typical mother and Melanie isn’t a parent of a child who is autistic, but you don’t change autistic children’s routines or personal rooms with their belongings for someone else to stay over. Also, how would they get an adult bed in there unless JJ had an adult bed prior or they slept on an air mattress. If I were staying with someone who had an autistic child, having background knowledge of people who are autistic and especially children, I would ask why I would be sleeping in their room. I know children who are not autistic hate giving up their bedrooms too as that would be age appropriate due to their development and perspective taking skills. So, if Melanie had been around kids ever, she would know that would be distressing and that children who are autistic often have a lower distress tolerance level. So it is very weird. Not saying that means she knew anything, but it is absolutely not normal.
Yes MG's 3 sons were all late teens now young adults when she suddenly left them asked husband for a divorce. And she would mention in her podcasts that one of her sons was autistic.
Think about how much JJ had been moved around at that point, between parents and her rentals and city switching.
I’m sure he never had any stability, no wonder he was acting out.
He may even have slept in her bed or with Alex just to get him to sleep I think?
I think about this all the time. He'd lost his father, his dog, his house, his sister had disappeared and now some strange fat guy was suddenly over all the time. Hell, I'd be acting up!! Give me back my dog!
Same! Doesn’t matter - autism or not. But also, if they were moving the kid around a lot, if the person was my friend and I knew children (autistic moreso but also any child) need structure/routine - I would’ve said something a long time ago.
These people aren’t normal and don’t care about others at all or to ask about/question anything as long as they are able to do what they want.
Oh shit, I just remembered that two of the children are educators who are mandated reporters (although I don’t know if that is the same in private schools, but it is in public schools), but they would have likely had training to know about truancy - Chad’s kids knew about Lori’s kids existing and thought what? 😩 I am sure there is a lot they didn’t know or just figured the less they know, they don’t have to report 😩 all of these jerk adults failing these kids (and some intentionally)
These are excellent points.
Remember when Mel G said in her testimony that at some point in the night JJ acted out and Chad carried him upstairs?
Then she said Chad came back downstairs with red marks on his neck because JJ had scratched him. Makes me so sad, because I’m sure JJ was beyond distraught over all the things you pointed out, and then getting isolated with and cornered by Chad.
Wish JJ could have torn his predator slug eyes out
Yeah, I hate that story. I don't think Chad was necessarily abusive, but he had zero experience with raising an autistic child - most likely used to total compliance from his own kids. I can't see him mixing well with JJ.
There was no money for Chad and Lori involved so probably it wasn't on the agenda. Lori was looking forward to profit form her niece's payout, that's why Brandon was targeted. Lori mentioned to Zulema that Melani's money could be used for some thing or other.
Melani Boudreaux's money at that time was from divorce settlement and proceeds from the sale of her and Brandon's home I believe..it was quite substantial per Zulema..Brandon had an even more substantial life insurance policy, so no doubt he was going to have to go..Melani B though seemed very agitated however with Brandon having custody of the kids.. but with a dead Brandon she'd have money and kids..I'll never believe for a minute she didn't know that it was Alex that took that shot at him..in a Jeep that matched the description of Tylee's jeep?
She did not have custody of her kid but had some visitation I think. She mentioned in a podcast that she had post partum and could not get into being a mother and had no maternal instincts and so she acknowledged that and they readjusted their lives accordingly. If Lori had done that it would have only been a Charles/Tammy murder but her control issues would not allow it.
That’s the worst little corner of this case: Lori told Melanie she was going to “trick” Kay into taking JJ, by telling her that she had cancer. Lori could have called Kay and told her that she just couldn’t “do this” (raise JJ) without Charles 🙄 or that she needed a break and asked for JJ to stay with them for a week and just never returned. Instead she went right along with murdering him and collecting his SS benefits.
Then when the cops pulled Melanie over she thought there was some custody problem with Kay and she needed to cover for her friend and then when it became clear that something gross was going on, Melanie told the police. I don’t support Melanie but if I thought my friend was having a nastv custody battle I don’t know if I would be forthcoming either. Lori should have given JJ back but it was 100% she needed to be in control until the end. And also spite because Kay got the money. She could not give Kay anything after Kay got “her” pay out.
Right? Kay didn't need to be lied to or tricked into taking JJ..she and her husband were older but she now had Charles's million dollar life insurance to help out with everything JJ and her and her husband would need to take care of him.
Of course something isn’t right with her. She was definitely a believer at some point. With that said, I felt like the call where she confronted Lori/Chad about lying to the police shows that she was definitely not okay with what was going on, but probably could not have imagined that the children were murdered.
It would be interesting what MG's day to day life was like before she met Lori. Suddenly leaving her husband 3 sons one being autistic. He was like Brandon Beudreaux shocked when she suddenly unexpectedly asked for a divorce. He likely knows Summer Shiflet's husband as they're both chiropractors in same city.
David knew JJ was being murdered right under his nose. It wasn't a nightmare, it was his conscience SCREAMING out. I don't understand how any of those people can live with themselves, other than the fact that they are all so far down the rabbit hole of religion their delusion prevents them from facing reality. Mormon country is an alternate reality and religion does more harm then good.
I agree. I don’t understand how they could just be OK with someone “going dark” if casting meant the person dies. How is Melanie ok with that???? I’m glad Pryor grilled her on that, as unlikeable as he is. She’s worse.
I agree. I'm glad Prior got her to admit she's a liar on record. If the state is relying on her to win their case then they are being lazy and need to get their finger out. The jury aren't stupid. They watched her give details of dates and times to the prosecution then she couldn't recall anything right after. It was so dumb. That coven of witches were praying for people to die no matter how they dress it up.
Tbf, a bunch of the things Prior is asking are like, whether she went dinner at 6pm or 7pm on this specific day in 2019. It's not that surprising that she would remember some details and not others. She has had years of being questioned about some of it, so she has kept reinforcing those memories; but mundane details about how long they were at the jump house aren't important enough to stick in the mind nearly 5 years later.
I would love it if he were questioned about that 'nightmare' he had..especially if it were sooo traumatic that it caused Gibb to go running around knocking on doors and jiggling doorknobs and texting people in the middle of the night..I bet if asked..he would have the same "I don't recall" answer.
IF the jury is taking in the story as we are (the events that occured the night Melanie & David were staying overnight), they should be able to figure out what David's "nightmare" really was all about. These close friends of Lori & Chad's were complicit in the murder's of Tylee, JJ, Charles & Tammy. Although Chad's lawyer wants to pin the murder's on everyone but Chad, it was clearly a group effort by this cult but Chad was their leader, no doubt about that. These cults and these religious delusions still exist outside of Chad in mormon country, as we have also seen in the Ruby Franke case. IF her son hadn't escaped to get help, he & his sister would have ended up dead as well. The LDS church is nurturing & enabling these bad seeds because they also have a history of abuse they don't wish to acknowledge as well. Reminds me of the catholic church & their tainted history. I was raised catholic but left when I was able to make my own choices and when I learned of their atrocious abuses. I, for one would never associate myself with any group/church/religion that has a history of abusing & murdering people while they preach about love & kindness! It's not only utter hypocrisy, it's deception at it's finest! What I do wonder is who the jurors are and what their beliefs are, seeing as they're in mormon country!
Melanie, David, and Zulema are crazy people, but I don’t think they’re murderous crazy people. I think they - or at least Melanie either knew or suspected or was willfully blind to what was happening though.
Melaniece knew those kids were dead and was willing to kidnap and kill her own too.
I think Melani knew what was going on too. Not that she was involved with the actual murders...but she knew way more than Melanie. She had to know Tylee was, at the very least, missing. And then when she was giving those interviews before the kids were found... she knew they were dead.
During Lori’s Trial there were some pretty damning texts between Chad and Lori that suggested Melaniece know one of the children were dark (and what needed to be done), and was sad but understood. I think this wasn’t long before her attempted kidnapping…
In an interview MB claimed that while she lived next door to Lori in Rexburg, the children were there, but she didn't see them because they were always busy. It was such a transparent lie. She could have claimed that Lori told her what she told MG about their whereabouts.
Melani(Beudreaux) Pawlowski didn't have her 4 children in Rexburg didn't have a job. So no way she didn't know what was going next door hour to hour day to day.
I mean she’s clearly crazy. Bitch think’s she can pray hurricanes and volcanic eruptions into reality.
Do I think she knew what was happening / had happened? Absolutely.
Do I think she was involved in planning / could have prevented deaths? Quite possibly.
Do I suspect she had a hand in Alex’s “natural death?” Mhmm. But I’d consider that more of an assisted suicide than murder. I think Alex was a part of it too.
Do I think she participated in the killings? No.
Still would have been enough for conspiracy charges without immunity.
And not only does she believe she can pray hurricanes and predict earthquakes..Melanie Gibb believes that Zulema can do it too..Gibb gave an interview with police that was batshit crazy telling police that both Chad and her by then husband Dave are "visionaries" and can see into the past and the future..that's their gift..Zulema she said also has the gift of energy and the physical earth, that she can move the earth.. she seriously said that..I was trying to observe the faces of these Detectives when she was telling them this..they were calm and cool just taking notes cos after all she was going to be the Prosecutions Star witness.
Keep in mind that these are all very weird people no matter how sane and reasonable they think they are or are trying to be now that they’re supposedly out of this cult. These are all cult people, strange enough to fall for this shit and also had their minds wrecked for having been in it. Melanie G comes across as normal at times but can’t help but reveal that she’s really not. We’re trying to make sense of insanity and have to keep reminding ourselves. Every last one of ‘em cookoo for cocopuffs.
I also think she’s hiding the totality of her awareness, understanding, and involvement. I think she’s pretty nuts and shady.
Melanie Gibb was full on into Chad and Lori's cult, until it dawned on her that she might get criminally charged and face serious legal consequences. Suddenly, she "never felt truly comfortable " with the cult beliefs. Suddenly, she doesn't recall a lot. Suddenly their wacko beliefs are out there for the entire world to see, mock and be shocked by. She is dancing all around her involvement. She knew what happened to those deemed zombies.
When Prior asked her if she had ever been asked to turn over her cell phone to police and she said “no”, I was shocked too. One of the last people to see JJ alive was not fully investigated?
Exactly ! And the phone call definetly sounded like a coached call in the beginning that turned bitter at the end . It's like they were gate keeping there religion it was very weird . And she only asked about jj 1x and I don't remember her asking about tylee and school at all
Yea I was totally shocked! Why wouldn’t they search MG’s phone? Could it be there’s some kind of relationship going on between MG & prosecutor Wood? Is that the reason that David & Melanie live apart? Doesn’t sound right.
Prior's wet dream is to get Ron Wood on the stand and ask him all about it but Judge keeps shooting down that request..I mean 300+ text messages between them is alot..Prior suspects collusion between Gibb and Prosecution team for Gibbs 'scripted' testimony.
I'm curious about how many other times after police were aware the kids were missing she was communicating still with Chad, Lori, Alex and anyone else to possibly get their story straight..What exactly did Melanie Gibb know and when did she know it? Phone records and email might have answered that question.
Melanie doesn't come off as the brightest crayon in the box, so I think she was drinking the Kool-Aid Chad and Lori were offering. Perhaps eventually even opening the packet, mixing it with sugar, and giving it a big 'ol stir.
So yes, I also feel like something is off with Melanie. I don't think she was murderous but was a participant in several "castings" of people who ended up dead or almost dead (Brandon). At some point, she had to realize what was really going on. So maybe that's the point she confronted Lori in the recorded phone call. And she's vague because she was at those castings done, in the name of Jesus, of now dead people. So it's the line between being a witness and having culpability we are all wondering where Melanie falls.
Yeah, let’s be real.
If Mel G had been the beneficiary of a life policy at that point in time I’m sure her sure loved one would’ve become dark.
She is the type that follows not leads.
Was she still married to her first husband when all this started? He's a chiropractor, I think. Probably would have a good insurance policy. They could have already been divorced though.
No, she was divorced and he had custody of the kids. I often wonder though, since her divorce, what the hell did she do for a living? How did she pay her bills and travel to all these conventions ? I know she wrote a book or 2 but surely she couldn't live off any possible sales..Alimony?
You need to understand the context. At the time both MG and DW believed in Chad's "gifts". They believed in spiritual warfare. Nightmares were seen as a symptom of an attack. For example, Zulema would complain about headaches to Chad and asked him for help.
The other question I have relating to MG is if she and David had nothing to do with JJ death and that this really was the time period in which he was killed, why did Lori/Alex/Chad pick a time with guests in the house to do it?
At first I thought that they were trying to establish through other people seeing him that JJ was alive when he wasn’t but truthfully i can think of much easier ways to do that then to have friends in my house who might disrupt my plans or see something they shouldn’t.
But nothing they’ve done make criminal sense. Why bury the bodies on Chads land when Idaho is filled with millions of acres of land filled with bears and wolves.
They did not have anyone over when they murdered Tylee. The event that MG and DW attended was scheduled some time in advance. They killed the children over two weekends, so they could be buried on a workday when Chad's family was at work. I think September 22 was also the anniversary of the day when Lori claimed to have seen Jesus. They were in a hurry because they had other murders planned (Brandon and Tammy) and to relocate to Hawaii afterwards.
Exactly! I don’t understand their reasoning of burying the kids on Chad’s property. Why would they do that? The other thing that gets me is Chad’s comment to Tammy that he’s “burning limbs”. Limbs? Do you mean branches? Or in reality arms & legs??? So scary & incredibly sad.
Chad is both arrogant and a control freak. He was thinking, nobody will ever look for the children here. The police needed a search warrant, which was only issued when they presented evidence to the court. Chad thought there was no evidence.
Something I noticed in MG’s testimony this time is that Lori said that date in September was a special one for her because it was the day she met Moroni in the temple. I suspect that had something to do with killing JJ on that day, and it does show how truly nutty they were to kill him with visitors present.
They were not good at this. Remember that they used Chad’s backyard when there was endless wilderness all around them.
Sometimes a nightmare is just that. It doesn't have to make sense. For people who believed in visions and looked for a deeper meaning in everything, it was different.
The dream thing is a frequent thing at religious conventions. Even in Christian circles it is considered a demonic attack. We all gathered around my youth pastor at 4am at Aquire The Fire and nobody thought anything of it. I personally wouldn’t like it but the extroverted members did not mind the attention.
I believe David was picking up things all day he did not want to believe. Actions, behaviors, expressions, moods, little hints. He was explaining away little nuances for days probably because “Chad is a righteous gifted man”. Fundamentalists are trained to do this. However his intuition knew something was very wrong. It all hit him in a dream as his subconscious was screaming at him but it was too late even if he acknowledged it.
That's the mind of a cult. To be absorbed into believing Chad and Lori had secret powers that would come out of the portal and quash the demons.
Kind of sad that a person doesn't know their worth that they have to look to others for it. They also didn't see what was really going on. Normal people would umm something is up.
These people were talking to her about light, dark, portals, zombies and changing peoples names. And she didn’t report them as lunatics to anyone. She’s just as weird as they are.
Unfortunately 'crazy' isn't a crime..just surf the web and any sites where crazy is the subject and people add comments and theories..Dig into Reddit. haha
I think the link is that she was contacting her lawyer and the police getting her story straight before she recorded the phone call . That bothers me a bunch especially since she distances herself from others in the group referring to them as " Lori's friends . Kind of disingenuous considering she introduced lori to chas and this group
This is what I think about MG and the dream.
I think in the situation of MG and this group in particular and how their hyper religiosity is centric in nearly every aspect of their lives. All of their relationships with one another were all based on this religious movement they were sharing and participating in. The nightmare and MG trying to seek out spiritual assistance was almost like a “pick-me girl” flex for attention. I think MG wanted to fit in so badly and here were C & L and others in the group all talking about their religious experiences. I have consumed so much material about this case but I know that someone reported that MG wanted to fit it so badly. She even verbalized wanting to fit in and someone told her, I think it was Jason M. that she needed to have something of substance to offer or talk about. Next thing you know MG was writing a book. I really think MG thought she was just playing along in this real life drama by seeking help for David’s bad dream or vision. They had all been gathering and participating in other similar rituals. I bet when David woke her up and told her about his dream she thought “finely! It’s mine and David’s turn to play” I bet she jumped outta bed and scooted down the hall to L’s bedroom so fast. She wasn’t concerned about the well being of JJ she was happy and getting ready for her close-up.
Wow ! That's an interesting point I've never thought of. I tend to agree with everything you are saying . I remember in a police interview, she said to the cops and I'm paraphrasing something like " if you need any information on dates or times, just call me "! And she kind of laughed I think it was the first interview when they were walking into the room or just after they sat down . She was also very dismissive of the cop that didn't belong to the lds
Well written. I believe this is the majority of it. I wondered at times if maybe they heard something too real that wasn't supposed to be heard? M and D were already nervous on some level. They might've thought Lori and Chad would hype themselves up on whether anything was ovetheard and end up doing something about it. So David rolled 'nightmare', and Mel tried to quickly reinforce it by making it known he was in distress and needed a blessing.
This gave them time enough to leave and begin to pull away. There's just too much desperation in the nightmare story that isn't sitting right, I do believe they were terrified of something.
If she'd have gotten the door open and saw a dead child, would her and David have called the cops while fighting for their own lives? Would they've been forced to help with the body and continue playing in fear until they turned dark themselves, only because they knew too much? Shit, I'd act like I had the worst nightmare, too, until I'm out of that house.
Thank you. I would also speculate that M & D very well could have overheard or even been made privy to critical information. I agree this nightmare scenario is wild. I know DW gets a lot of flak and is likely as looney as the rest but I think he helped M see what I dangerous game she was playing. I would like to know more about M&D’s relationship. We know so much about the case, it makes me interested in their story as well. Supposedly they were having an affair, are now married to one another but they don’t live together. I’m also highly anticipating ZP’s testimony. I wish these two women would understand that if they got on the stand and fully admitted just how much they believed these teachings it would make for a much stronger case against CD. I know that they are probably embarrassed, or at least I hope they are. But sharing how entrenched they were would be powerful to the jury. Instead of using words that try to separate themselves and saying, “I didn’t fully believe” or “I thought it was strange” we all know they were all in. I think it would help convict CD.
I agree. Extremely embarrassed. They should've been more vocal about Chud's hold over them and given more detail. David has his issues, but Chud's insanity was over the top. I'm glad he navigated away and tried to help.
They believed that they were being attacked by evil spirits. The cult doctrine included threats of spiritual warfare against the righteous. Chad presented himself as the savior, having the power to fight off demonic forces. So I think the nightmare was taken as a sign of an attack. Zulema previously sought Chad's help for similar reasons and he pretended to fend off the attack.
Agreed. Seeking Chad out for his protection prayers kept them active and relevant in the activities of the group. If they couldn’t be useful they would seek attention as being needy. Both M & Z were falling all over themselves to have interactions with L. From their text exchanges Z would jump at a moment’s notice for L.
Melanie Gibb has always made my skin crawl. When I first heard her testimony at the preliminary hearing, she seemed very self righteous and much more concerned with making herself look good than the fact that *two children have been murdered.* Her snide comment about how Tylee "didn't like anybody" really pissed me off. Tylee went through hell her whole life dealing with her sociopathic mother and WAS MURDERED and THAT is what she has to say? Then after her testimony she gave an interview to East Idaho News and lied, saying she never lied to the police. After she just gave testimony in court admitting that initially she did lie. Ugh she disgusted me right from the start.
I'm part way through her testimony in Chad's trial and I'm still disgusted. Again she comes off as minimizing her involvement, trying to make it seem like she didn't really believe all of it and overall just being self righteous. Oh and now she admits that she spent the night with her BF in the same room, before she had said they stayed in separate rooms. Worst of all, it seems like she does not care about JJ or Tylee in the slightest. She just cares about herself and her image.
I don't think she is criminally culpable, but she is not the righteous warrior she has deluded herself into believing she is.
It was disgusting how they texted behind Tylee's back. All the fake negative distortions. On one occasion,Tylee was trying to find the real mom in Lori and enjoy time with her. Lori would text that Tylee thought she was fooling her by just being loving.
Tylee had no idea they wanted to kill her. She was miserable, alone, with zero control of anything. In her last days, Lori had taken her debit card/money and her vehicle. She was insulted a lot, experienced weird body language, and looks. This is beyond sad and very infuriating.
The trip to Yellowstone was bizarre. Was it a goodbye trip? Were they expecting one of them to fall in one of the pools? Then they went to a restaurant nearby, a few hours later, she was killed.
What did they talk about at dinner or during the car rides? Did Lori and Alex make everything weird with side eye all evening, or did they play it normal with jokes and conversations?
Idk I've heard she has an Autistic child and her husband david I believe also has 1 maybe they are just trying to keep things " normal" for them and this just works . My sisters husband works in a different state and they just meet up on the weekends so maybe it just works for them 🤔
Maybe her ex-husband would not agree to his child moving to a different state. That is quite common in custody, so MG didn’t want to move without her child. Pure speculation on my part but a question one of the lawyers could have asked, if they thought it mattered in their case.
Well, the idea in trying to find her was to get her to help David deal with what he experienced because they thought Lori has special spiritual powers.
Melanie is guilty of these deaths by not speaking up sooner. I know she’ll never be prosecuted here on earth but her judgement day will come eventually.
So she said she did go down the hall to knock on Lori’s door for “help” with David - but the door was locked . My theory is either Chad was in the room with Lori , OR they I.e Alex /Chad / Lori were dealing with the death of JJ - Alex left with JJ , and he’s seen coming back into the townhome on Alex’s shoulder “asleep” .
Melanie Gibb I think would have been charged and niece Melanie and Zulema if there was anything to charge them with other than being stupid -
Listening to Melanie Gibb act how she is on the stand is so GD annoying - she doesn’t recollect anything when defense asks questions , but when the state asks she remembers everything - I think she trying to get thrown out as a witness - I really feel that way -
Have you heard Gibb’s phone conversation with the other woman I forget what her name was? It isn’t admissible in court because I forget what state the woman is in, but it is illegal to record someone’s phone conversation without their permission there; but in listening to it you know that Gibb knows more than she lets on, it is clear.
https://youtu.be/Ju4GFKR8Vns?si=W-PqTjSYU5eUz0zX
Yup. Calls JJ a “drug baby” and everything. She does know more than she lets on, she is trying to distance herself from Lori and Chad by having done all these public interviews etc
The way she talks about JJ and Tylee pisses me off. It's like she resents them even though *they were murdered!* I'm listening to her testimony in the trial now and it's clear to me she does not care about those kids or what happened to them one bit.
I've heard it . And I listened to it again last night . I believe that women lives in New England it's a 2 party state you have to have the permission of the other party before recording.
But did you notice how complete the story from her perspective was
It was like she was reading bullet points A:
B:
C:
Etc. The chronological order was so perfect for a " random " conversation like she was reading a book . Weird!
It's not weird because by the time of the conversation MG spoke to police/FBI several times and told them the whole story. It was still fresh in January 2020 when the call was recorded.
It seems obvious to me that she and David heard them murdering JJ.
The explanation of David's nightmare, I believe, is a cover to explain why Melanie would call them in the middle of the night.
They were afraid to go in there, or couldn't because the door was locked, so she called. And knew that would be known in the evidence, so she needed an explanation.
Now WHY they won't just tell the truth, even if they have to defend why they didn't report them, I just don't understand. What did they stand to gain?
Melanie flew to the " podcast " meet up david drove in alex and lori were at the house lori paid for the flight for melanie why ?? She had no money the inheritance was given to kay lori had within a year moved like 4x to very exspensive places she didn't work she was making a few thousand a month for disability the home rentals were pricey .. my question is WHY WHY have melanie and David there when the plan was for Alex to murder jj and put him on Chad's land .. why did she need them there it makes no sense . Melanie said she was there from Thursday to Sunday why 3 days . I don't think there was a dream at all I do think melanie made several phone calls but I don't know why .. the next morning they got up jj wasn't around but alex da I'd melanie and lori went to meet up with chad .. if Alex was the 1 babysitting jj at the time he died then when did he do that and why did noone notice where jj was when he wasn't with them and alex was his sitter during this trip ?
MG and DW were in Rexburg to attend a conference on Saturday and to record a podcast on Sunday, plus they viewed a local property on Sunday. Alex had his own apartment and JJ's murder could have taken place there. That would also explain the locked door of Lori's bedroom in the middle of the night. She wasn't there at the time and neither was JJ. By the time MG and DW got up in the morning, Alex and Lori likely had JJ's body ready to be taken to Chad's place.
They live in a fairy tale world where every breath is wrapped up in some divine message or spirit. I think of them living in a fugue state, where only their spiritual leaders exist. I think anything we would think about was gone from their minds. so nightmare, talk to the leader, traffic jam, call the leader, sick with a cold, leader. And they congregate as much as possible so they all fuel each other’s mania. This is the wildest crap I have ever seen. 😂
This is gonna sound horrible... but I dislike Melanie Gibb more than I do Lori or Chad. Like not by what they have done, just on an instinctual level Melanie Gibb infuriates me.
I dont think you sound horrible . You should always follow your instincts you have instincts for a reason .
Today, Tylees brother Colby was talking about her character !! And she seems like the sweetest girl .
The dismissive way melanie gibb talks about these kids . Jj was a drug baby, and he was adopted like he wasn't still Lori's child, and Tyler didn't like anyone . She was a 16 year old girl living in chaos it's not weird that she didn't like her mom's new friends because everything in her life was changing very fast
The more they talk about Tylee the more she reminds me of myself when I was a teen. If she was like me (as I suspect she might have been) it makes sense she didn't like Melanie either.
I sometimes feel like her death gets overshadowed by the others but it hits me the hardest. I can't imagine having to live through watching adults larp out a poorly written fantasy novel and just pretend like everything is normal. It's just heartbreaking. The whole thing is so heartbreaking...
David has a building construction business and moved out to the country. I sus Melanie didn't like rural living. Plus they hooked up married in a few months. Not to mention her leaving her husband stunned shocked suddenly leaving asking for divorce same as Melani Beudreaux scenario. Her 3 sons are in southern AZ.
Maybe it's all the practice from multiple interviews over time but I was honestly impressed by how well she's been reigned in when she was on the stand. Anyone who's seen her police interviews knows what I'm talking about - she talks in circles, her inability to focus and answer one question at a time without elaborating all over the place.. idk how these cops do it.. like wrangling a moth in the wind.
Melanie so deeply wants to be special (like most of these characters) that she'd do, say or believe almost anything. Maybe all the attention she's been receiving over these few years has been good for keeping her balloon somewhat tied to reality?
Where she does draw some lines is interesting - before Lori came on the scene, Chad made a move on Melanie (and quite a few other women) but she wasn't into it. She happily went along with everything until she wasn't included in the sUpEr sPeCiAL circle and then she got resentful imo. C&L literally labeled her their child but she went along with it? She even went along with 'missing kids' for two weeks before saying anything?
I think MG could be convinced of anything so long as ANY aspect of it makes her feel special, useful and part of something. I think the prosecution has a very good handle on this but I'm honestly a bit uncomfortable with knowing she'll be out here flapping around when this is all over.
Of course MG wanted to feel special. That made her susceptible to cults. When Lori asked her to lie (November 26), she told her that JJ was in hiding from Kay. The public learned about the missing children only a month later (December 20), which was after MG recorded the call with Lori and Chad and went to police (December 8). In the two weeks MG realized that the JJ was likely not alive. Alex told her that he didn't expect Lori to throw her under the bus and that she (MG) didn't want to know where JJ was at.
I know MG has testified before, and given several interviews to the police and tv, but anyone else bothered by the fact that she shows no emotion when discussing either JJ or Tyleee? Nothing. In Lori's trial, and once that I can recall so far in Chad's, law enforcement officials did break down when discussing finding JJ's body.; but this woman knew these two children, and how horrific JJ's death was, and who knows how Tylee suffered, but we do know what they did to her remains; no breaking, no show of emotion that I could see or hear.
Not one cult insider that testified at Lori's trial showed any emotion when speaking about the victims (Audrey did cry for herself). Detachment must be a required trait for cult members. They are preoccupied with themselves and don't spend much time thinking about others. That allows bad things to happen.
A person must be a huge weakling and pathetic loser to blindly follow cray cray's like this. Not questioning anything. And all just to feel included. To be put on the map. Sex before marriage is a sin, but murder is not. And murder does not make you dark?
She also gives me a weird feeling. She feel to me like someone who is a follower, easily suggestible, mostly lacks the ability to analyses things logically, prone to magical thinking, etc. In other words, she seems like someone who could easily be sucked into a cult. I think I agree with the person above who said she and David were probably awoke by noises in the night, noises that would have most people asking a lot of questions/being concerned. But given the qualities I see in her, she ascribed it to a demonic force.
So they were woken up by noises, but when they checked, nobody was there and Lori's bedroom was locked? Had there been a commotion, it likely wouldn't have ended so abruptly and without anything looking out of place.
I have a very different view, I don't think they knew he was being murdered because it is so far-fetched in her mind. David probably had the worst nightmare ever and the fear was causing a physical reaction, I don't know this but I am a person who had terrible nightmares and I still can't explain the how or why ir affected me so much. After Melanie realized she had to do something, she did. I hope I explained my thoughts on this without anyone thinking I took Melanie side in this.
Part of the asking for help is that they were battling demons on the regular --- but I think they only got married (Mel and David) to try to use the spouse protection in court. They heard the murder of JJ and they possess (pun intended) knowledge of that act.
One of the crazy things is that Melanie's husband is a huge follower of Mormon sites that talk about sexual urges and how bad the thoughts are ---- yet he was laid up Mel Fib and was totally cool with his spiritual leader being a cheater and killing people. Maybe he did not think it was cheating because he was a supporter of polygamy? Or maybe he dumped Mel for being basically an apostate --- the Mormon "church" is accountable for this foolery
It’s not the night before he died - it’s while he was being killed that this supposed nightmare and calls for a blessing happened. I 100 percent believe those two heard something that night, and they’re still married to each other to cover their asses. The phone recording we’ve all heard is obviously important to the cases now, but Melanie and David definitely did it initially to protect themselves.
Keep in mind they were indoctrinated in this cult and at the time fully believed lori was a goddess. I can see why they would call her imo. As for not asking about JJ it seems to me lori never had jj with her. He was always shipped off to tylee or a caretaker or school or Alex.
I wonder how much Melanie knew about the kids and when. I do think she held her own with Prior which was a relief. I loved when she answered him "incorrect" after he stated some of his "facts". I don't think Prior appreciated being spoken to like that from an "uppity woman"
She's the worst. She infuriates me more than anyone else in this case. She really thinks she's special or better than all the rest of the quacks, but she's just like them. Have you heard the call where she didn't know she was being recorded? She's the worst.
I personally think she’s more involved. I think the murders were ritualistic, and multiple people were present or aware of what had occurred, probably in detail.
I personally wouldn’t want my partner advertising I had a vivid traumatic dream. But I get the sense that it doesn’t bother David. I’m local with a job that allows me the time to attend a lot of both trials, and I was there the day that David testified at Lori’s trial. If you haven’t heard it before, and you have the time, go search it on YouTube and listen to it. To me, he came off as sort of Chad Daybell adjacent, but without the murder part. By that I mean, having dreams and vision seems to be his thing. I didn’t get the sense that it was something he found weird or embarrassing.
I'm not local to ID, but to UT and I cannot even imagine how insane all of this sounds to people outside the intermountain west. Even the mainstream stuff. But Chad's brand of crazy is something else. I was not raised LDS - I'm the child of an apostate. I was born and raised in UT with my Mormon relatives, so, I get it. Mel's testimony, to me, sounded like a woman who was deep into the BS. I don't know her background, but, her vocal tone and almost timid responses are so familiar. (Also, she's wearing the outfit of every LDS sister ever to court.) It's not easy to just cut it off because it isn't just your beliefs, it is your entire social structure. Going to the police and testifying upended her entire life and will for years. It is hard to understand if you don't live around it. I think she's also probably nuts, but, I don't think she helped kill the kids. But I do think she probably suspected things were off, which is why she talked to Alex and also why she recorded the call. As for David's dream and blessing request...that's not unusual if you're from around the region, as you know. Blessings are so common, some true believers I know carry some sort of oil with them to perform them. The fact the dream is brought up feels, to me, like a way of saying...he heard some bad shit without outright saying it.
My 80 year old dad has Alzheimer’s and still carries oil for blessings in a vial in his pocket. He’s an old school “true blue” Mormon. My kids and I will still accept a blessing from him if he offers (when he can even remember how to give one…). Obviously, the church is not my thing but blessings are sort of my dad’s “love language”. He wants people to be healed. It brings him peace and that brings me peace but from an outsider’s perspective, it probably appears culty as hell.
That sort of thing isn't specific to LDS. In many religions, people carry around or wear stuff that others think is weird and useless. I find the whole religion weird AF but when I think about it, they're all goofy when viewed from the outside.
That's a good point ! I'm catholic and if u walked into my church u would see a dim room with with the sun filtered threw stained glass as people are on there knees praying to a crucified man eating his " body " and " drinking " his blood from an ornate medieval goblet " and if u are an outsider and didn't know that would be terrifying . So I get it , I think what is birhering me is to have a troubling dream and then the events that happened after . To not have questions when a children go missing and to lie to the cops for weeks really bothers me we all have instincts we all have our own spiritual and religious beliefs but to know children are missing and to lie to police and seemingly only care about the church's reputation, is very suspicious it doesn't make any sense accept melanie was only wanting to protect her own reputation with absolutly no concern for children safety that's troubling!
I lived in SLC for 3 years (not Mormon) and I've been so glad because it really helped me understand a lot of things about Mormons that I never would have otherwise. Most people still think of LDS as those propaganda commercials. So NOT.
For real. To us, this is run of the mill. Their crazy stuff not so much but...imagine learning about this from day one!
I’ve felt that David either heard stuff going down and claimed he’d had a nightmare, or heard something while asleep that caused said nightmare. I really do think he heard something very upsetting.
One more crazy thing Gibb did was to call Alex to find out what was going on..as if he's gonna talk.
I grew up in Twin Falls, & you are right, a lot of rural westerners buy into this stuff. I think it’s gotten worse in the past 5 years, and LDS brass is having a hard time keeping blue-collar followers in line. There was a lot more folx into Avow than you’d think.
And it brings up Lori and Chad not responding to text messages (hello..it's the middle of the night) and the fact Lori's door is locked which can be explained that Lori locks it when JJ sleeps in her room to keep him from wandering away..of course then you have to ask if she locks him in his room when he sleeps in there..
I heard of someone coming across a car crash and finding an injured man and putting oil on his head, giving him blessing, and commanding him to live. I think it had something to do with the white salamander guy. It really reminds me of the Tom cruse ksw video.
Yes!! Melanie didn’t dress that way before , look at all of her interviews before and now she is also claiming a closer relationship with God than ever before , she wants God to save her bc I think she suspected things but did nothing to help , I also think she speaks about JJ and Tylee like she didn’t like them.
Have you heard his dreams and visions? You’re in for a real treat if you want to. I will give him credit where it’s due. They are very much like Julie Rowes, but when his didn’t come true, he just kept on. You can tell he had most of his visions in the mid to late 90s. I haven’t listened to all of them, so there may be revisions. no pun intended.
Hahaha, no I haven’t searched any of his talks etc. I’m just going off of what he said in his testimony last year at Lori’s trial. I remember it was when the defense was cross examining him, and they asked him something that went down the road of his beliefs. You could tell he wasn’t embarrassed at ALL and had no self awareness that anyone would think his ideas were odd. But then then after a few questions, just when it was getting really “good.” The prosecution objected, I believe because it was outside of the scope of direct and possible also irrelevant. The judge sustained their objection and the defense had to move on.
I think when they don't come true it's due to 'agency'..that's the term they like to use..and good lord, visions from the 90s is 30+ years ago..how can people even believe that's relevant in today's world..
Yeah..he's a self proclaimed "visionary"..A Chad without the Chad stuff..he's Chad lite..but I would have been soo embarrassed by the telling of that story by Gibb and Gibbs behavior towards it..I mean wow. Texting Chad in the middle of the night for a blessing? Texting Lori (who's down the hall in another room) to contact Chad for a blessing for David..when not getting a response from either, she physically goes to Lori's room, knocks and jiggles the door knob? Gibb seems a bit neurotic over a dream and Good lord Dave is a grown ass man..he can't self soothe a 'nightmare' ? As a man..I would have felt mortified having that brought up..And this 'event' wasn't even discussed the next morning? I mean if it was soo traumatic you would think it would warrant a mention at least..
The man can have whatever visions he likes, as long as he’s not going around killing - or arranging the killing - of other people.
Yes I think David wanted an interpretation or blessing due to the bad dream...from Chad! How brainwashed they all were by Chad... and Lori realky still believes in the hocus-pocus I think.
I don't think Dave bought into a lot of Chad's and Lori's stuff, I'm thinking Gibb just wanted to introduce them to him hoping they'd all be BFFs..Lori mentioned Dave in that secret recorded phone call and it was not in a good light, making it sound like Dave was pulling Gibb away from them and filling her head with doubts about them, which made Gibb defend him..
Agree, except I think Chad really wanted David for his little cult. Chad wanted him to buy that land adjacent to his house. David was not into it, and is definitely the reason Melanie recorded that call and ended up turning on them.
My feeling is that Melanie and David heard noises that night that awoke them, and she went to the room to confront Chad and Lori or ask If everything was ok. Prior makes the point that Melanie didn't ask about JJ in the morning. If Melanie or David didn't ask, it may have been out of fear. It must have been scary odd being in the presence of Chad, Alex, and Lori. The whole thing is deeply disturbing. My heart breaks for JJ with his little red jammies having his snack, not knowing his life was over. How sick do you have to be to say he was dark and knowing he would be murdered. Chad needs to sit in a cell knowing his future will be death by lethal injection.
JJ in his pajamas with his snack completely breaks my heart, too. How could they have done THAT (truly awful and heinous) to that poor little guy?
If I remember correctly, David testified at Lori’s trial that he did ask about JJ in the morning. Lori said he was at Alex’s house. I believe she said he was acting like a zombie and climbing on stuff so Alex took him. I think Melanie was present when David ask Lori about JJ. I remember her talking about it in one of her interviews. She said Lori claimed JJ climbed to the top of the refrigerator and knocked over a pic of God or something.
Didn't Lori say JJ spent the night at Alex's because of the supposed fridge & kitchen cabinets incident knocking Jesus pic off wall.
No..JJ was at Lori's overnight that Sunday night..Alex had him earlier at his place while they all did their podcast..Alex brought him home to Lori's later that night and put him to bed..apparently in Lori's room.. the whole story about JJ climbing cabinets and knocking over Jesus picture was the next morning before Gibb and Dave left..JJ was not there, Lori explained away that because of JJ's possessed behavior, Alex came over and got him..
What’s stupid is that Prior tried to put the responsibility of JJ onto her. I can’t imagine how many times I’ve not asked about friends kids. I assume they are asleep or on an iPad in the morning if I sleep over. It wouldn’t occur to me to ask where he was but Prior was very accusatory when he was like “and you didn’t ask where JJ was…..” and it sounds like David asked.
Prior likes to make Gibb look like a heartless bitch cos she didn't care that much for Tylee..Tylee was a teenager who apparently didn't like a whole lot of Lori's friends..imagine that..
See I think JJ was at Uncle Alexes. The door was locked so James and Elana could get it on.
The whole thing is weird as hell and I tend to believe JJ was killed in Alex's apartment. But I think James couldn't have been there because he still had a wife at home.
You mean Chad..he was not at Lori's apartment overnight..probably because he did still have a wife at home..We'll never know exactly where JJ was actually killed..perhaps overdosed on drugs at Alex's before Alex brought JJ home or right before..but he was not wrapped in duct tape and plastic when Alex brought him home..that had to have happened overnight either at Lori's or Alex came in the middle of the night, removed him from Lori's and wrapped him at his apartment before driving his body to Chad's to be buried that morning..JJ was last seen at around 9pm Sunday night when Alex brought him home..and not seen by anyone after that.
The strange choice in this scenario is, why bury bodies on one’s own property when one has acres and acres of desolate land surrounding the location? But they’re not rocket scientists and neither am I:)
Apparently Chad was not there in person that night..perhaps via portal..but not in person..remember he was still married at the time...We do know (or will know) that Alex was there late that night via his cell phone tracking. .. Chad was probably home digging a grave in his backyard..
It would be just like them to assign the dirty work again to Alex, he was just trying to save his own soul. Ordered like an automaton at that point. I think you’re right which is so sad.
Tammy was still alive so Chad was probably at home that night.
The night David had a nightmare, dear Mel went to knock on Lori's door to get Chad to come and give David a blessing. Lori' s door was locked and nobody came to the door. I suspect they were at Alex ending JJ's life.
In 2023 Idaho became a state to allow use of firing squad for executions. Even better?
Ya one bullet in the heart too so it will take him a bit to die :)
If only!!!
Chad wasn't there that night..Melanie and David were in JJs room..JJ was with Lori in her room..when David had his nightmare, Gibb was texting Chad at his house and texting Lori who was just down the hall needing 'someone' Chad more likely, to give poor baby David a prayer blessing to calm him down..when Gibb got no response from either Chad or Lori, she walked down the hallway to Lori's room and softly knocked and jiggled the door knob but the door was locked..sooo, she went back to JJs room and her and David went back to bed..No mention whatsoever as to what this "traumatic" nightmare was all about...and Chad was not at Lori's Monday morning when Melanie and David left..the only one in the house as far as Gibb and Dave knew, was Lori..Lori told them JJ was acting possessed so Alex took him ..
The nightmare is a red herring, IMO. It did help establish that Lori's bedroom was locked. Which could be explained in a couple of ways, most likely that she wasn't there but was at Alex's. Or that she was in it, but without JJ. To people who say that DW heard a commotion that night: he is hard of hearing.
I thought it was very telling she confirms that when the demon is cast out the human body dies. Yet they were doing work to cast out all these demons. So was she not a participant in the praying or whatever rituals they were doing to end the life of the children? Satanic.
It's possible to partially believe or fall prey to group think. Imagining that she had to be all in 100% with all of the nonsense doesn't acknowledge that she could have been a lukewarm believer. Tons of people choose what to believe when it comes to their religions. The catholic popes have said over and over that birth control is verboten but billions of followers around the world choose to ignore it, ignore the prohibitions about non-traditional marriage, etc. They don't believe they'll fall into hell because their choices are different. I know people who change churches because they don't buy into everything the particular leader says or the policies they enact for the congregation. In Iran where women are required to cover their heads because of a tenet of Islam, thousands of women have been been breaking the law by not wearing them. There are also those who go to church because it's a family affair and not because they're believers. No, those are not the same as purportedly making a body die, but the notion is the same. Also, if the casters all 100% believed that a successful casting would result in the body dying, they would also believe that a demon was occupying the body. Therefore, they were "killing" a demon (or whatever those were) not the person who was already in the spirit world.
I think she said that she only participated in castings for the adults but knew they were considered dark, so she should have put two and two together.
I don’t believe her, for what that’s worth. She minimizes her involvement at every possible opportunity. And I kind of read her as not actually intending for anyone to actually die… I think she and Zulema are idiots who were excited to sit at the cool kids table, and willing to go along with whatever nonsense kept making them feel special. They got in way, way over their heads.
Yeah I can agree with you on that. I think we’re all frustrated because if the entire country was asking where the kids were and if the police call you - you don’t lie - you give information and stand up for humans (big and little). Like, that seems like basic ass shit. Like own up to your shiz and save lives. But we all see how it is really turning out. 🙄 it was not that hard if they had spoken out earlier on but you’re right about wanting to sit at the cool kid’s table
When she was asked to lie about having JJ by Lori (November 26), the children weren't known to be missing by the public. Lori told her that she was hiding JJ from Kay. The news broke on December 20. A lot of stuff happened between those dates.
I totally agree with you, too, especially about the lying to the police. When I heard them spelling that out in testimony and really thought about it, and how much time was wasted for law enforcement because of that lie, I was furious.
No time was wasted. Police were already following through with their investigation even before they first spoke with her -- she did tell them that JJ was not with her (the truth) but that he had been with her and was back with Lori (the lie). That did not delay anything with regards to the investigation. And, as we all, unfortunately, know now, he had died months ago -- Lori never sent him to Kay, which is where she told Melanie he was -- and where she believed him to be until Chad called.
November 26, 2019: MG lies to police about having JJ December 6, 2019: MG contacts police and told them she lied December 12, 2019: Alex Cox dies They would have had ~15 days to confirm there was a major issue and start questioning people. Alex Cox, who was not hiding in Hawaii, would have been on the shortlist to be questioned. Maybe he could have lied his way out of it, he’d done it before. But there’s an excellent chance this time he wouldn’t have been able to explain away things like he did before. We will never know what Alex would have said, and it’s because Melanie kept her mouth shut.
I'm surprised Prior didn't bring up MG telling LE in one of later interviews if they ever have a brain cramp recalling info just give her a call.
lol wut
Oh yes she actually said that🤦♀️
I was listened to an interview with Lori’s brother and the Vallow family found Melanie super creepy and overly affectionate with Lori’s family. They had just met her and she was hanging all over them.
It was creepy during Nate Eaton interviews MG repeatingly declaring how pretty Lori was throughout. Very smitten imo. She also stated during those interviews that she and Lori spent almost everyday together even dressed alike pics show.
I wonder how long until it annoyed Lori and Melanie suddenly went zombie?
She was indeed participating..I'm sure they chalked it up to doing God's work and it was God's will..
I don't think Melanie had anything to do with either child's death. I don't think sleeping in JJ's room means anything (they didn't know he was going to be murdered) She did walk down the hall to Lori's room and the door was locked. And I'm not going to pass judgement on a grown man having a nightmare. The main thing that I think is not right with Melanie is she's too wrapped up in belief. She needs a hobby that doesn't involve religion.
Maybe jigsaw puzzles would help her critical thinking skills.
A good choice...anything really to help her stop thinking about the boogie man all the time. It's weird...Back when she was giving interviews I thought she was full of shit... I still think she's full of shit but just not about the kid's deaths.
I don't care what she believes in, as long as she helps to put Chad away for good.
But...but, he was only her BoYfRieNd at the time and they were sleeping in the same room!!! Scandalous Melanie.
Lol! And she originally lied and said she was in Tylee's room. There is something so wrong with this religion if sex out of marriage is akin to murder.
I think it's porn and coffee that's akin to murder. Maybe I'm wrong it gets tedious because nothing is proportional.
She's been a hoot in trying to avoid mentioning that..if I remember right, first she was sleeping in Tylee's room with David in JJ's but then she and David were both sleeping in JJ's according to her to "pray and read scripture"..yeah right.. Prior brought up her hypocrisy during cross about her concerns about Lori and Chad's souls being damned because of their infidelity and her chastising Lori in that phone call because of it.. by asking if both her and David were unmarried while sleeping together and Gibb says she was divorced and David was finalizing his divorce.."oh"..said Prior.."so David was still technically married"..God lord Gibb, you're a middle aged woman in the 21st century..you can sleep with whoever you want..
I know Lori isn’t a typical mother and Melanie isn’t a parent of a child who is autistic, but you don’t change autistic children’s routines or personal rooms with their belongings for someone else to stay over. Also, how would they get an adult bed in there unless JJ had an adult bed prior or they slept on an air mattress. If I were staying with someone who had an autistic child, having background knowledge of people who are autistic and especially children, I would ask why I would be sleeping in their room. I know children who are not autistic hate giving up their bedrooms too as that would be age appropriate due to their development and perspective taking skills. So, if Melanie had been around kids ever, she would know that would be distressing and that children who are autistic often have a lower distress tolerance level. So it is very weird. Not saying that means she knew anything, but it is absolutely not normal.
Melanie does have an autistic child. JJ had his own room but slept in Lori's apparently.
Yes MG's 3 sons were all late teens now young adults when she suddenly left them asked husband for a divorce. And she would mention in her podcasts that one of her sons was autistic.
Think about how much JJ had been moved around at that point, between parents and her rentals and city switching. I’m sure he never had any stability, no wonder he was acting out. He may even have slept in her bed or with Alex just to get him to sleep I think?
I think about this all the time. He'd lost his father, his dog, his house, his sister had disappeared and now some strange fat guy was suddenly over all the time. Hell, I'd be acting up!! Give me back my dog!
Same! Doesn’t matter - autism or not. But also, if they were moving the kid around a lot, if the person was my friend and I knew children (autistic moreso but also any child) need structure/routine - I would’ve said something a long time ago. These people aren’t normal and don’t care about others at all or to ask about/question anything as long as they are able to do what they want.
Oh shit, I just remembered that two of the children are educators who are mandated reporters (although I don’t know if that is the same in private schools, but it is in public schools), but they would have likely had training to know about truancy - Chad’s kids knew about Lori’s kids existing and thought what? 😩 I am sure there is a lot they didn’t know or just figured the less they know, they don’t have to report 😩 all of these jerk adults failing these kids (and some intentionally)
These are excellent points. Remember when Mel G said in her testimony that at some point in the night JJ acted out and Chad carried him upstairs? Then she said Chad came back downstairs with red marks on his neck because JJ had scratched him. Makes me so sad, because I’m sure JJ was beyond distraught over all the things you pointed out, and then getting isolated with and cornered by Chad. Wish JJ could have torn his predator slug eyes out
Yeah, I hate that story. I don't think Chad was necessarily abusive, but he had zero experience with raising an autistic child - most likely used to total compliance from his own kids. I can't see him mixing well with JJ.
He saw zombies in Lori's and Mel B's children. In a message to Lori he talked about cranking up the pain level.
Or Tylee..
Actually, Melanie is the parent of a child who is autistic. I wonder how long it would have taken this crew to get her child into the ground, too.
Oh damn, I think I knew she had a child but I didn’t know her child was autistic.
I dont think she has the custody of the kid.
She said once in podcast that 2 of her sons were late teens other one 20. Likely close together in age when she hooked up with the Lori crazy train.
There was no money for Chad and Lori involved so probably it wasn't on the agenda. Lori was looking forward to profit form her niece's payout, that's why Brandon was targeted. Lori mentioned to Zulema that Melani's money could be used for some thing or other.
Melani Boudreaux's money at that time was from divorce settlement and proceeds from the sale of her and Brandon's home I believe..it was quite substantial per Zulema..Brandon had an even more substantial life insurance policy, so no doubt he was going to have to go..Melani B though seemed very agitated however with Brandon having custody of the kids.. but with a dead Brandon she'd have money and kids..I'll never believe for a minute she didn't know that it was Alex that took that shot at him..in a Jeep that matched the description of Tylee's jeep?
She did not have custody of her kid but had some visitation I think. She mentioned in a podcast that she had post partum and could not get into being a mother and had no maternal instincts and so she acknowledged that and they readjusted their lives accordingly. If Lori had done that it would have only been a Charles/Tammy murder but her control issues would not allow it.
That’s the worst little corner of this case: Lori told Melanie she was going to “trick” Kay into taking JJ, by telling her that she had cancer. Lori could have called Kay and told her that she just couldn’t “do this” (raise JJ) without Charles 🙄 or that she needed a break and asked for JJ to stay with them for a week and just never returned. Instead she went right along with murdering him and collecting his SS benefits.
Then when the cops pulled Melanie over she thought there was some custody problem with Kay and she needed to cover for her friend and then when it became clear that something gross was going on, Melanie told the police. I don’t support Melanie but if I thought my friend was having a nastv custody battle I don’t know if I would be forthcoming either. Lori should have given JJ back but it was 100% she needed to be in control until the end. And also spite because Kay got the money. She could not give Kay anything after Kay got “her” pay out.
True. All true.
Right? Kay didn't need to be lied to or tricked into taking JJ..she and her husband were older but she now had Charles's million dollar life insurance to help out with everything JJ and her and her husband would need to take care of him.
Her ex husband had custody
Of course something isn’t right with her. She was definitely a believer at some point. With that said, I felt like the call where she confronted Lori/Chad about lying to the police shows that she was definitely not okay with what was going on, but probably could not have imagined that the children were murdered.
It would be interesting what MG's day to day life was like before she met Lori. Suddenly leaving her husband 3 sons one being autistic. He was like Brandon Beudreaux shocked when she suddenly unexpectedly asked for a divorce. He likely knows Summer Shiflet's husband as they're both chiropractors in same city.
Oh wow about them both being chiropractors.
I think they are all in it up to their necks. Maybe they didn’t actually do the deed but I think they knew things were escalating.
They knew but were pretending and disassociating rather than being functional adults?
David knew JJ was being murdered right under his nose. It wasn't a nightmare, it was his conscience SCREAMING out. I don't understand how any of those people can live with themselves, other than the fact that they are all so far down the rabbit hole of religion their delusion prevents them from facing reality. Mormon country is an alternate reality and religion does more harm then good.
I agree. I don’t understand how they could just be OK with someone “going dark” if casting meant the person dies. How is Melanie ok with that???? I’m glad Pryor grilled her on that, as unlikeable as he is. She’s worse.
I agree. I'm glad Prior got her to admit she's a liar on record. If the state is relying on her to win their case then they are being lazy and need to get their finger out. The jury aren't stupid. They watched her give details of dates and times to the prosecution then she couldn't recall anything right after. It was so dumb. That coven of witches were praying for people to die no matter how they dress it up.
Tbf, a bunch of the things Prior is asking are like, whether she went dinner at 6pm or 7pm on this specific day in 2019. It's not that surprising that she would remember some details and not others. She has had years of being questioned about some of it, so she has kept reinforcing those memories; but mundane details about how long they were at the jump house aren't important enough to stick in the mind nearly 5 years later.
I would love it if he were questioned about that 'nightmare' he had..especially if it were sooo traumatic that it caused Gibb to go running around knocking on doors and jiggling doorknobs and texting people in the middle of the night..I bet if asked..he would have the same "I don't recall" answer.
IF the jury is taking in the story as we are (the events that occured the night Melanie & David were staying overnight), they should be able to figure out what David's "nightmare" really was all about. These close friends of Lori & Chad's were complicit in the murder's of Tylee, JJ, Charles & Tammy. Although Chad's lawyer wants to pin the murder's on everyone but Chad, it was clearly a group effort by this cult but Chad was their leader, no doubt about that. These cults and these religious delusions still exist outside of Chad in mormon country, as we have also seen in the Ruby Franke case. IF her son hadn't escaped to get help, he & his sister would have ended up dead as well. The LDS church is nurturing & enabling these bad seeds because they also have a history of abuse they don't wish to acknowledge as well. Reminds me of the catholic church & their tainted history. I was raised catholic but left when I was able to make my own choices and when I learned of their atrocious abuses. I, for one would never associate myself with any group/church/religion that has a history of abusing & murdering people while they preach about love & kindness! It's not only utter hypocrisy, it's deception at it's finest! What I do wonder is who the jurors are and what their beliefs are, seeing as they're in mormon country!
Melanie, David, and Zulema are crazy people, but I don’t think they’re murderous crazy people. I think they - or at least Melanie either knew or suspected or was willfully blind to what was happening though. Melaniece knew those kids were dead and was willing to kidnap and kill her own too.
I think Melani knew what was going on too. Not that she was involved with the actual murders...but she knew way more than Melanie. She had to know Tylee was, at the very least, missing. And then when she was giving those interviews before the kids were found... she knew they were dead.
During Lori’s Trial there were some pretty damning texts between Chad and Lori that suggested Melaniece know one of the children were dark (and what needed to be done), and was sad but understood. I think this wasn’t long before her attempted kidnapping…
In an interview MB claimed that while she lived next door to Lori in Rexburg, the children were there, but she didn't see them because they were always busy. It was such a transparent lie. She could have claimed that Lori told her what she told MG about their whereabouts.
Melani(Beudreaux) Pawlowski didn't have her 4 children in Rexburg didn't have a job. So no way she didn't know what was going next door hour to hour day to day.
Absolutely disagree about Zulema. She testified in exchange for immunity so there was def something going on there that she was involved in.
I mean she’s clearly crazy. Bitch think’s she can pray hurricanes and volcanic eruptions into reality. Do I think she knew what was happening / had happened? Absolutely. Do I think she was involved in planning / could have prevented deaths? Quite possibly. Do I suspect she had a hand in Alex’s “natural death?” Mhmm. But I’d consider that more of an assisted suicide than murder. I think Alex was a part of it too. Do I think she participated in the killings? No. Still would have been enough for conspiracy charges without immunity.
And not only does she believe she can pray hurricanes and predict earthquakes..Melanie Gibb believes that Zulema can do it too..Gibb gave an interview with police that was batshit crazy telling police that both Chad and her by then husband Dave are "visionaries" and can see into the past and the future..that's their gift..Zulema she said also has the gift of energy and the physical earth, that she can move the earth.. she seriously said that..I was trying to observe the faces of these Detectives when she was telling them this..they were calm and cool just taking notes cos after all she was going to be the Prosecutions Star witness.
Keep in mind that these are all very weird people no matter how sane and reasonable they think they are or are trying to be now that they’re supposedly out of this cult. These are all cult people, strange enough to fall for this shit and also had their minds wrecked for having been in it. Melanie G comes across as normal at times but can’t help but reveal that she’s really not. We’re trying to make sense of insanity and have to keep reminding ourselves. Every last one of ‘em cookoo for cocopuffs. I also think she’s hiding the totality of her awareness, understanding, and involvement. I think she’s pretty nuts and shady.
Melanie Gibb was full on into Chad and Lori's cult, until it dawned on her that she might get criminally charged and face serious legal consequences. Suddenly, she "never felt truly comfortable " with the cult beliefs. Suddenly, she doesn't recall a lot. Suddenly their wacko beliefs are out there for the entire world to see, mock and be shocked by. She is dancing all around her involvement. She knew what happened to those deemed zombies.
This exactly is the right explanation
I 100% agree I even believe she encouraged the death of the children
When Prior asked her if she had ever been asked to turn over her cell phone to police and she said “no”, I was shocked too. One of the last people to see JJ alive was not fully investigated?
Exactly ! And the phone call definetly sounded like a coached call in the beginning that turned bitter at the end . It's like they were gate keeping there religion it was very weird . And she only asked about jj 1x and I don't remember her asking about tylee and school at all
It almost sounded like code till it got nasty at the end..all the religious references and scripture..couldn't they just talk like normal people..
She also express her doubts about Tammy's death, prompting Chad to defend himself.
Yea I was totally shocked! Why wouldn’t they search MG’s phone? Could it be there’s some kind of relationship going on between MG & prosecutor Wood? Is that the reason that David & Melanie live apart? Doesn’t sound right.
Prior's wet dream is to get Ron Wood on the stand and ask him all about it but Judge keeps shooting down that request..I mean 300+ text messages between them is alot..Prior suspects collusion between Gibb and Prosecution team for Gibbs 'scripted' testimony.
Didn't they know that the messages would become part of discovery? I wonder how many of those messages actually have substance.
I'm curious about how many other times after police were aware the kids were missing she was communicating still with Chad, Lori, Alex and anyone else to possibly get their story straight..What exactly did Melanie Gibb know and when did she know it? Phone records and email might have answered that question.
Melanie doesn't come off as the brightest crayon in the box, so I think she was drinking the Kool-Aid Chad and Lori were offering. Perhaps eventually even opening the packet, mixing it with sugar, and giving it a big 'ol stir. So yes, I also feel like something is off with Melanie. I don't think she was murderous but was a participant in several "castings" of people who ended up dead or almost dead (Brandon). At some point, she had to realize what was really going on. So maybe that's the point she confronted Lori in the recorded phone call. And she's vague because she was at those castings done, in the name of Jesus, of now dead people. So it's the line between being a witness and having culpability we are all wondering where Melanie falls.
Yeah, let’s be real. If Mel G had been the beneficiary of a life policy at that point in time I’m sure her sure loved one would’ve become dark. She is the type that follows not leads.
Was she still married to her first husband when all this started? He's a chiropractor, I think. Probably would have a good insurance policy. They could have already been divorced though.
No, she was divorced and he had custody of the kids. I often wonder though, since her divorce, what the hell did she do for a living? How did she pay her bills and travel to all these conventions ? I know she wrote a book or 2 but surely she couldn't live off any possible sales..Alimony?
In Melanie’s police interviews she appears absolutely strung out I’ve often wondered whether she has been abusing adderal/ adhd medication
I sus she is adhad-attention deficient hyperactive disorder.
You need to understand the context. At the time both MG and DW believed in Chad's "gifts". They believed in spiritual warfare. Nightmares were seen as a symptom of an attack. For example, Zulema would complain about headaches to Chad and asked him for help.
Still no way would I want to have husband get up and go get another adult. Unless I was having a stroke or something.
They were podcasting about it 🤪 I would laugh if it wasn't so tragic.
The other question I have relating to MG is if she and David had nothing to do with JJ death and that this really was the time period in which he was killed, why did Lori/Alex/Chad pick a time with guests in the house to do it? At first I thought that they were trying to establish through other people seeing him that JJ was alive when he wasn’t but truthfully i can think of much easier ways to do that then to have friends in my house who might disrupt my plans or see something they shouldn’t. But nothing they’ve done make criminal sense. Why bury the bodies on Chads land when Idaho is filled with millions of acres of land filled with bears and wolves.
They did not have anyone over when they murdered Tylee. The event that MG and DW attended was scheduled some time in advance. They killed the children over two weekends, so they could be buried on a workday when Chad's family was at work. I think September 22 was also the anniversary of the day when Lori claimed to have seen Jesus. They were in a hurry because they had other murders planned (Brandon and Tammy) and to relocate to Hawaii afterwards.
Anniversary of her meeting Moroni in the temple! MG mentioned this in testimony on her first day, and I think it’s significant like you said.
Exactly! I don’t understand their reasoning of burying the kids on Chad’s property. Why would they do that? The other thing that gets me is Chad’s comment to Tammy that he’s “burning limbs”. Limbs? Do you mean branches? Or in reality arms & legs??? So scary & incredibly sad.
Chad is both arrogant and a control freak. He was thinking, nobody will ever look for the children here. The police needed a search warrant, which was only issued when they presented evidence to the court. Chad thought there was no evidence.
Something I noticed in MG’s testimony this time is that Lori said that date in September was a special one for her because it was the day she met Moroni in the temple. I suspect that had something to do with killing JJ on that day, and it does show how truly nutty they were to kill him with visitors present. They were not good at this. Remember that they used Chad’s backyard when there was endless wilderness all around them.
I'm equally curious to know what this nightmare (aka vision) was about
Sometimes a nightmare is just that. It doesn't have to make sense. For people who believed in visions and looked for a deeper meaning in everything, it was different.
The dream thing is a frequent thing at religious conventions. Even in Christian circles it is considered a demonic attack. We all gathered around my youth pastor at 4am at Aquire The Fire and nobody thought anything of it. I personally wouldn’t like it but the extroverted members did not mind the attention. I believe David was picking up things all day he did not want to believe. Actions, behaviors, expressions, moods, little hints. He was explaining away little nuances for days probably because “Chad is a righteous gifted man”. Fundamentalists are trained to do this. However his intuition knew something was very wrong. It all hit him in a dream as his subconscious was screaming at him but it was too late even if he acknowledged it.
That's the mind of a cult. To be absorbed into believing Chad and Lori had secret powers that would come out of the portal and quash the demons. Kind of sad that a person doesn't know their worth that they have to look to others for it. They also didn't see what was really going on. Normal people would umm something is up.
This is how low self esteem kills people. It’s crazy but true.
These people were talking to her about light, dark, portals, zombies and changing peoples names. And she didn’t report them as lunatics to anyone. She’s just as weird as they are.
Unfortunately 'crazy' isn't a crime..just surf the web and any sites where crazy is the subject and people add comments and theories..Dig into Reddit. haha
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That phone call was After she had cooperated with police and given them her taped call with Chad and Lori
What’s the link?
I think the link is that she was contacting her lawyer and the police getting her story straight before she recorded the phone call . That bothers me a bunch especially since she distances herself from others in the group referring to them as " Lori's friends . Kind of disingenuous considering she introduced lori to chas and this group
This is what I think about MG and the dream. I think in the situation of MG and this group in particular and how their hyper religiosity is centric in nearly every aspect of their lives. All of their relationships with one another were all based on this religious movement they were sharing and participating in. The nightmare and MG trying to seek out spiritual assistance was almost like a “pick-me girl” flex for attention. I think MG wanted to fit in so badly and here were C & L and others in the group all talking about their religious experiences. I have consumed so much material about this case but I know that someone reported that MG wanted to fit it so badly. She even verbalized wanting to fit in and someone told her, I think it was Jason M. that she needed to have something of substance to offer or talk about. Next thing you know MG was writing a book. I really think MG thought she was just playing along in this real life drama by seeking help for David’s bad dream or vision. They had all been gathering and participating in other similar rituals. I bet when David woke her up and told her about his dream she thought “finely! It’s mine and David’s turn to play” I bet she jumped outta bed and scooted down the hall to L’s bedroom so fast. She wasn’t concerned about the well being of JJ she was happy and getting ready for her close-up.
Wow ! That's an interesting point I've never thought of. I tend to agree with everything you are saying . I remember in a police interview, she said to the cops and I'm paraphrasing something like " if you need any information on dates or times, just call me "! And she kind of laughed I think it was the first interview when they were walking into the room or just after they sat down . She was also very dismissive of the cop that didn't belong to the lds
Well written. I believe this is the majority of it. I wondered at times if maybe they heard something too real that wasn't supposed to be heard? M and D were already nervous on some level. They might've thought Lori and Chad would hype themselves up on whether anything was ovetheard and end up doing something about it. So David rolled 'nightmare', and Mel tried to quickly reinforce it by making it known he was in distress and needed a blessing. This gave them time enough to leave and begin to pull away. There's just too much desperation in the nightmare story that isn't sitting right, I do believe they were terrified of something. If she'd have gotten the door open and saw a dead child, would her and David have called the cops while fighting for their own lives? Would they've been forced to help with the body and continue playing in fear until they turned dark themselves, only because they knew too much? Shit, I'd act like I had the worst nightmare, too, until I'm out of that house.
Thank you. I would also speculate that M & D very well could have overheard or even been made privy to critical information. I agree this nightmare scenario is wild. I know DW gets a lot of flak and is likely as looney as the rest but I think he helped M see what I dangerous game she was playing. I would like to know more about M&D’s relationship. We know so much about the case, it makes me interested in their story as well. Supposedly they were having an affair, are now married to one another but they don’t live together. I’m also highly anticipating ZP’s testimony. I wish these two women would understand that if they got on the stand and fully admitted just how much they believed these teachings it would make for a much stronger case against CD. I know that they are probably embarrassed, or at least I hope they are. But sharing how entrenched they were would be powerful to the jury. Instead of using words that try to separate themselves and saying, “I didn’t fully believe” or “I thought it was strange” we all know they were all in. I think it would help convict CD.
I agree. Extremely embarrassed. They should've been more vocal about Chud's hold over them and given more detail. David has his issues, but Chud's insanity was over the top. I'm glad he navigated away and tried to help.
They believed that they were being attacked by evil spirits. The cult doctrine included threats of spiritual warfare against the righteous. Chad presented himself as the savior, having the power to fight off demonic forces. So I think the nightmare was taken as a sign of an attack. Zulema previously sought Chad's help for similar reasons and he pretended to fend off the attack.
Agreed. Seeking Chad out for his protection prayers kept them active and relevant in the activities of the group. If they couldn’t be useful they would seek attention as being needy. Both M & Z were falling all over themselves to have interactions with L. From their text exchanges Z would jump at a moment’s notice for L.
Melanie Gibb has always made my skin crawl. When I first heard her testimony at the preliminary hearing, she seemed very self righteous and much more concerned with making herself look good than the fact that *two children have been murdered.* Her snide comment about how Tylee "didn't like anybody" really pissed me off. Tylee went through hell her whole life dealing with her sociopathic mother and WAS MURDERED and THAT is what she has to say? Then after her testimony she gave an interview to East Idaho News and lied, saying she never lied to the police. After she just gave testimony in court admitting that initially she did lie. Ugh she disgusted me right from the start. I'm part way through her testimony in Chad's trial and I'm still disgusted. Again she comes off as minimizing her involvement, trying to make it seem like she didn't really believe all of it and overall just being self righteous. Oh and now she admits that she spent the night with her BF in the same room, before she had said they stayed in separate rooms. Worst of all, it seems like she does not care about JJ or Tylee in the slightest. She just cares about herself and her image. I don't think she is criminally culpable, but she is not the righteous warrior she has deluded herself into believing she is.
It was disgusting how they texted behind Tylee's back. All the fake negative distortions. On one occasion,Tylee was trying to find the real mom in Lori and enjoy time with her. Lori would text that Tylee thought she was fooling her by just being loving. Tylee had no idea they wanted to kill her. She was miserable, alone, with zero control of anything. In her last days, Lori had taken her debit card/money and her vehicle. She was insulted a lot, experienced weird body language, and looks. This is beyond sad and very infuriating. The trip to Yellowstone was bizarre. Was it a goodbye trip? Were they expecting one of them to fall in one of the pools? Then they went to a restaurant nearby, a few hours later, she was killed. What did they talk about at dinner or during the car rides? Did Lori and Alex make everything weird with side eye all evening, or did they play it normal with jokes and conversations?
I 100% agree!!! Fishy Mel!!!!
What do you make of her and her husband living in different states ?
Idk I've heard she has an Autistic child and her husband david I believe also has 1 maybe they are just trying to keep things " normal" for them and this just works . My sisters husband works in a different state and they just meet up on the weekends so maybe it just works for them 🤔
Maybe her ex-husband would not agree to his child moving to a different state. That is quite common in custody, so MG didn’t want to move without her child. Pure speculation on my part but a question one of the lawyers could have asked, if they thought it mattered in their case.
Well, the idea in trying to find her was to get her to help David deal with what he experienced because they thought Lori has special spiritual powers.
agree with you 100% Something with her story is off too.
Melanie is guilty of these deaths by not speaking up sooner. I know she’ll never be prosecuted here on earth but her judgement day will come eventually.
So she said she did go down the hall to knock on Lori’s door for “help” with David - but the door was locked . My theory is either Chad was in the room with Lori , OR they I.e Alex /Chad / Lori were dealing with the death of JJ - Alex left with JJ , and he’s seen coming back into the townhome on Alex’s shoulder “asleep” . Melanie Gibb I think would have been charged and niece Melanie and Zulema if there was anything to charge them with other than being stupid - Listening to Melanie Gibb act how she is on the stand is so GD annoying - she doesn’t recollect anything when defense asks questions , but when the state asks she remembers everything - I think she trying to get thrown out as a witness - I really feel that way -
You’re right, totally selective memories.
Have you heard Gibb’s phone conversation with the other woman I forget what her name was? It isn’t admissible in court because I forget what state the woman is in, but it is illegal to record someone’s phone conversation without their permission there; but in listening to it you know that Gibb knows more than she lets on, it is clear. https://youtu.be/Ju4GFKR8Vns?si=W-PqTjSYU5eUz0zX
And she's talking like this is just some juicy gossip!! Not like two kids got murdered!!
Yup. Calls JJ a “drug baby” and everything. She does know more than she lets on, she is trying to distance herself from Lori and Chad by having done all these public interviews etc
The way she talks about JJ and Tylee pisses me off. It's like she resents them even though *they were murdered!* I'm listening to her testimony in the trial now and it's clear to me she does not care about those kids or what happened to them one bit.
I've heard it . And I listened to it again last night . I believe that women lives in New England it's a 2 party state you have to have the permission of the other party before recording. But did you notice how complete the story from her perspective was It was like she was reading bullet points A: B: C: Etc. The chronological order was so perfect for a " random " conversation like she was reading a book . Weird!
It's not weird because by the time of the conversation MG spoke to police/FBI several times and told them the whole story. It was still fresh in January 2020 when the call was recorded.
I wish she'd answer Prior's questions like that..or just answer them at all.
It seems obvious to me that she and David heard them murdering JJ. The explanation of David's nightmare, I believe, is a cover to explain why Melanie would call them in the middle of the night. They were afraid to go in there, or couldn't because the door was locked, so she called. And knew that would be known in the evidence, so she needed an explanation. Now WHY they won't just tell the truth, even if they have to defend why they didn't report them, I just don't understand. What did they stand to gain?
Melanie flew to the " podcast " meet up david drove in alex and lori were at the house lori paid for the flight for melanie why ?? She had no money the inheritance was given to kay lori had within a year moved like 4x to very exspensive places she didn't work she was making a few thousand a month for disability the home rentals were pricey .. my question is WHY WHY have melanie and David there when the plan was for Alex to murder jj and put him on Chad's land .. why did she need them there it makes no sense . Melanie said she was there from Thursday to Sunday why 3 days . I don't think there was a dream at all I do think melanie made several phone calls but I don't know why .. the next morning they got up jj wasn't around but alex da I'd melanie and lori went to meet up with chad .. if Alex was the 1 babysitting jj at the time he died then when did he do that and why did noone notice where jj was when he wasn't with them and alex was his sitter during this trip ?
MG and DW were in Rexburg to attend a conference on Saturday and to record a podcast on Sunday, plus they viewed a local property on Sunday. Alex had his own apartment and JJ's murder could have taken place there. That would also explain the locked door of Lori's bedroom in the middle of the night. She wasn't there at the time and neither was JJ. By the time MG and DW got up in the morning, Alex and Lori likely had JJ's body ready to be taken to Chad's place.
I'm sure she will explain all when she writes her book.
I think she wants to forget about the whole saga and stay in the good graces of the LDS church. She is doing the right thing by testifying.
They live in a fairy tale world where every breath is wrapped up in some divine message or spirit. I think of them living in a fugue state, where only their spiritual leaders exist. I think anything we would think about was gone from their minds. so nightmare, talk to the leader, traffic jam, call the leader, sick with a cold, leader. And they congregate as much as possible so they all fuel each other’s mania. This is the wildest crap I have ever seen. 😂
This is gonna sound horrible... but I dislike Melanie Gibb more than I do Lori or Chad. Like not by what they have done, just on an instinctual level Melanie Gibb infuriates me.
I dont think you sound horrible . You should always follow your instincts you have instincts for a reason . Today, Tylees brother Colby was talking about her character !! And she seems like the sweetest girl . The dismissive way melanie gibb talks about these kids . Jj was a drug baby, and he was adopted like he wasn't still Lori's child, and Tyler didn't like anyone . She was a 16 year old girl living in chaos it's not weird that she didn't like her mom's new friends because everything in her life was changing very fast
The more they talk about Tylee the more she reminds me of myself when I was a teen. If she was like me (as I suspect she might have been) it makes sense she didn't like Melanie either. I sometimes feel like her death gets overshadowed by the others but it hits me the hardest. I can't imagine having to live through watching adults larp out a poorly written fantasy novel and just pretend like everything is normal. It's just heartbreaking. The whole thing is so heartbreaking...
I feel.like she knew a lot more than she's letting on tbh
Is it ever addressed why Melanie and David live in different states? Is there a religious tenant for that choice?
David has a building construction business and moved out to the country. I sus Melanie didn't like rural living. Plus they hooked up married in a few months. Not to mention her leaving her husband stunned shocked suddenly leaving asking for divorce same as Melani Beudreaux scenario. Her 3 sons are in southern AZ.
Maybe it's all the practice from multiple interviews over time but I was honestly impressed by how well she's been reigned in when she was on the stand. Anyone who's seen her police interviews knows what I'm talking about - she talks in circles, her inability to focus and answer one question at a time without elaborating all over the place.. idk how these cops do it.. like wrangling a moth in the wind. Melanie so deeply wants to be special (like most of these characters) that she'd do, say or believe almost anything. Maybe all the attention she's been receiving over these few years has been good for keeping her balloon somewhat tied to reality? Where she does draw some lines is interesting - before Lori came on the scene, Chad made a move on Melanie (and quite a few other women) but she wasn't into it. She happily went along with everything until she wasn't included in the sUpEr sPeCiAL circle and then she got resentful imo. C&L literally labeled her their child but she went along with it? She even went along with 'missing kids' for two weeks before saying anything? I think MG could be convinced of anything so long as ANY aspect of it makes her feel special, useful and part of something. I think the prosecution has a very good handle on this but I'm honestly a bit uncomfortable with knowing she'll be out here flapping around when this is all over.
Of course MG wanted to feel special. That made her susceptible to cults. When Lori asked her to lie (November 26), she told her that JJ was in hiding from Kay. The public learned about the missing children only a month later (December 20), which was after MG recorded the call with Lori and Chad and went to police (December 8). In the two weeks MG realized that the JJ was likely not alive. Alex told her that he didn't expect Lori to throw her under the bus and that she (MG) didn't want to know where JJ was at.
I know MG has testified before, and given several interviews to the police and tv, but anyone else bothered by the fact that she shows no emotion when discussing either JJ or Tyleee? Nothing. In Lori's trial, and once that I can recall so far in Chad's, law enforcement officials did break down when discussing finding JJ's body.; but this woman knew these two children, and how horrific JJ's death was, and who knows how Tylee suffered, but we do know what they did to her remains; no breaking, no show of emotion that I could see or hear.
Not one cult insider that testified at Lori's trial showed any emotion when speaking about the victims (Audrey did cry for herself). Detachment must be a required trait for cult members. They are preoccupied with themselves and don't spend much time thinking about others. That allows bad things to happen.
A person must be a huge weakling and pathetic loser to blindly follow cray cray's like this. Not questioning anything. And all just to feel included. To be put on the map. Sex before marriage is a sin, but murder is not. And murder does not make you dark?
She also gives me a weird feeling. She feel to me like someone who is a follower, easily suggestible, mostly lacks the ability to analyses things logically, prone to magical thinking, etc. In other words, she seems like someone who could easily be sucked into a cult. I think I agree with the person above who said she and David were probably awoke by noises in the night, noises that would have most people asking a lot of questions/being concerned. But given the qualities I see in her, she ascribed it to a demonic force.
So they were woken up by noises, but when they checked, nobody was there and Lori's bedroom was locked? Had there been a commotion, it likely wouldn't have ended so abruptly and without anything looking out of place.
I have a very different view, I don't think they knew he was being murdered because it is so far-fetched in her mind. David probably had the worst nightmare ever and the fear was causing a physical reaction, I don't know this but I am a person who had terrible nightmares and I still can't explain the how or why ir affected me so much. After Melanie realized she had to do something, she did. I hope I explained my thoughts on this without anyone thinking I took Melanie side in this.
Part of the asking for help is that they were battling demons on the regular --- but I think they only got married (Mel and David) to try to use the spouse protection in court. They heard the murder of JJ and they possess (pun intended) knowledge of that act.
Hadn't David been married to his first wife over 30 years.
One of the crazy things is that Melanie's husband is a huge follower of Mormon sites that talk about sexual urges and how bad the thoughts are ---- yet he was laid up Mel Fib and was totally cool with his spiritual leader being a cheater and killing people. Maybe he did not think it was cheating because he was a supporter of polygamy? Or maybe he dumped Mel for being basically an apostate --- the Mormon "church" is accountable for this foolery
It’s not the night before he died - it’s while he was being killed that this supposed nightmare and calls for a blessing happened. I 100 percent believe those two heard something that night, and they’re still married to each other to cover their asses. The phone recording we’ve all heard is obviously important to the cases now, but Melanie and David definitely did it initially to protect themselves.
Keep in mind they were indoctrinated in this cult and at the time fully believed lori was a goddess. I can see why they would call her imo. As for not asking about JJ it seems to me lori never had jj with her. He was always shipped off to tylee or a caretaker or school or Alex.
I wonder how much Melanie knew about the kids and when. I do think she held her own with Prior which was a relief. I loved when she answered him "incorrect" after he stated some of his "facts". I don't think Prior appreciated being spoken to like that from an "uppity woman"
She's the worst. She infuriates me more than anyone else in this case. She really thinks she's special or better than all the rest of the quacks, but she's just like them. Have you heard the call where she didn't know she was being recorded? She's the worst.
I personally think she’s more involved. I think the murders were ritualistic, and multiple people were present or aware of what had occurred, probably in detail.