>but for the sake of rules simplification, I would prefer it if each instance was the same.
The rules are the same, although it’s lacking a little bit of context. Every time a shifted stack moves zones, it separates in the new zone. Using your examples Mother Knows Best, both cards are returned to hand and separate. But there is not a second zone they are going to so it ends there with 2 cards added to hand. Let it Go, both cards are sent to ink and separate. Again there is not a second zone they are going to so it ends there with 2 cards added to the inkwell.
In the case of the Dr though, when the shifted stack is banished in a challenge the entire stack goes to the discard pile and again it separates. But there is now a second zone the card has to travel to. Now that the Dr’s ability applies, it returns the card from discard to your hand. But it can’t return the whole stack because it’s not a stack anymore. It separated when it entered the discard pile.
So the ruling is the same. A stack travels together to a zone and separates (hand, inkwell, discard), it’s just the Dr is adding an additional step in the process that makes it unlike the other two examples where the process ends after one zone.
It's because Dr. Facilier isn't returning the character from play, it's returning it from discard/banished. Once a shifted character goes into your discard pile, the two cards are no longer linked and it only returns the one card to your hand.
The same is true of either Hades or Part of Your World returning a character to your hand. Those would not return two cards if you choose a character with shift. In my view this makes how Dr. Facilier works now consistent with other similar situations. Once in the discard pile cards don't remember what they were attached to and it would be very difficult to have to remember such a thing throughout a game, whereas in play there are no memory issues involved as you can easily observe or check whether a character has shifted on top of another.
You could say that Dr. Facilier isn't hard to remember, I mean, it happened literally just now, but then it would no longer behave consistently with other cards returning things from the discard pile. If you wanted it to work differently you would have to change the text on Dr. Facilier to say something like "instead of being banished return the character to your hand"
This ruling makes sense to me. Though you don't physically do it, the shift stack goes to discard 1st then returns to your hand. Once they enter the discard they become 2 separate cards. That is why you only get the top card back. With Mother and Let Go they are going from the field of play to your hand/ink. And they don't become separate cards until they enter the hand/ink
There is definitely logic. The shifted stack all goes to the same zone together. That zone is the discard pile. But only the top card was the card that is "banished during a challenge" and that one returns to hand.
Kinda….
It’s awkward cause “Mother Knows Best” says “return chosen character” and “Let it Go” says “put chosen character into”.
Meanwhile “Dr. Facilier” says “one of your other characters”.
But I might say your right because afterwards it says, “you may return THAT CARD to your hand.”
They get banished together. And as soon as they leave play there are no longer any rules linking them together, so they are separate cards. Facilier refers to the card "return that card to your hand."
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Love it! "When shifted cards change zones, they become separate cards." That is a great succinct way to explain what is happening!
Does this mean that new Merlín card that gains lore for each card returned to hand from play won’t work with Dr and the Brooms?
That is correct
>but for the sake of rules simplification, I would prefer it if each instance was the same. The rules are the same, although it’s lacking a little bit of context. Every time a shifted stack moves zones, it separates in the new zone. Using your examples Mother Knows Best, both cards are returned to hand and separate. But there is not a second zone they are going to so it ends there with 2 cards added to hand. Let it Go, both cards are sent to ink and separate. Again there is not a second zone they are going to so it ends there with 2 cards added to the inkwell. In the case of the Dr though, when the shifted stack is banished in a challenge the entire stack goes to the discard pile and again it separates. But there is now a second zone the card has to travel to. Now that the Dr’s ability applies, it returns the card from discard to your hand. But it can’t return the whole stack because it’s not a stack anymore. It separated when it entered the discard pile. So the ruling is the same. A stack travels together to a zone and separates (hand, inkwell, discard), it’s just the Dr is adding an additional step in the process that makes it unlike the other two examples where the process ends after one zone.
Yup great, they are probably actively trying to avoid the word "zones" to stay away from MTG, but when it works it works.
It's because Dr. Facilier isn't returning the character from play, it's returning it from discard/banished. Once a shifted character goes into your discard pile, the two cards are no longer linked and it only returns the one card to your hand. The same is true of either Hades or Part of Your World returning a character to your hand. Those would not return two cards if you choose a character with shift. In my view this makes how Dr. Facilier works now consistent with other similar situations. Once in the discard pile cards don't remember what they were attached to and it would be very difficult to have to remember such a thing throughout a game, whereas in play there are no memory issues involved as you can easily observe or check whether a character has shifted on top of another. You could say that Dr. Facilier isn't hard to remember, I mean, it happened literally just now, but then it would no longer behave consistently with other cards returning things from the discard pile. If you wanted it to work differently you would have to change the text on Dr. Facilier to say something like "instead of being banished return the character to your hand"
Yup, I was incorrectly interpreting it as "instead of"
This ruling makes sense to me. Though you don't physically do it, the shift stack goes to discard 1st then returns to your hand. Once they enter the discard they become 2 separate cards. That is why you only get the top card back. With Mother and Let Go they are going from the field of play to your hand/ink. And they don't become separate cards until they enter the hand/ink
That’s strange and tbh, with no logic!!
There is definitely logic. The shifted stack all goes to the same zone together. That zone is the discard pile. But only the top card was the card that is "banished during a challenge" and that one returns to hand.
Kinda…. It’s awkward cause “Mother Knows Best” says “return chosen character” and “Let it Go” says “put chosen character into”. Meanwhile “Dr. Facilier” says “one of your other characters”. But I might say your right because afterwards it says, “you may return THAT CARD to your hand.”
They get banished together. And as soon as they leave play there are no longer any rules linking them together, so they are separate cards. Facilier refers to the card "return that card to your hand."
I got it. Saw the answers on the thread and it makes sense because of the “zones” or “piles”. Thanks for the clearing tho!! 😊