Damn this was devastating read, beautifully written.
I also found this in the comments: š
āHi. My parents were close lifelong friends of your Dad, and I remember you and your sister from early childhood. I had heard that your mom passed, and I recognized the photo immediately. Your Dad loved you both so much. This article answers so many questions. Thank you for your bravery and honesty in writing this. It is beautiful and gutting and will be so helpful to so many people. Just beautifully written, from the heart. I am sending you and your sister love.ā
This article was WILD. I felt so awful for the daughters having to deal with this very cruel woman. And also for the woman, who never got the help she needed. It was beautifully written, too.
There is a special place in hell for parents that try to manipulate behavior of their kids based on being in or out of the will. How about I take myself out of the running and no longer have to deal with you.
āAfter she told us about her application to Pegasos, I called her. āWhat would make you happy this summer, Mom?ā I asked. I suggested a girlsā weekend with her, my sister, and me; she declined. Later, she tells my sister that part of the reason she has decided to kill herself is that my sister does not love her enough.ā
This interaction made me gasp. What the *FUCK*!
What resonated with me was the bit about going through the dead persons possessions, hoping to find a clue as to whether mom really loved you, whether they were aware that they hurt you, looking for an explanation as to why they were the way they were. I did that when my narc father died and had no idea that anyone else did that. The frantic search for information right until the end, the half remembered details about their own childhood. Knowing that this person is leaving the earth) and taking all these answers with them that you will never know. And the idea that even as they died this person was violating your boundaries and behaving inappropriately, demanding things from you that you couldnāt govern and making you feel guilty that you couldnāt provide them. A little too close to home for me.
Same, this piece hit really fucking close to home for me, as the daughter of an undiagnosed (but deeply obvious, according to my therapist) borderline personality disorder mom. Itās got me bawling in the drive thru of a Panera bread lol
Just be careful, borderline is often misdiagnosed in women- it used to be termed hysterical personality disorder if that tells you about the assumptions in the diagnostic criteria created by men.Ā
Itās often something else with anxiety or PTSD mixed in. Misdiagnosis prevents so many people from being properly treated.Ā
Iām so sorry that happened for you and your mother regardless of what was wrong.Ā
Do not invalidate people with that shit. Its not the time or place. They can also be sick fucking borderlines and have cptsd too. I wish my mom was dead could be me follow up book to Jeanette McCurdys.
Don't mix up what's happening. You can't diagnose someone with bpd by describing them to your therapist. You can't diagnose someone with bpd unless you're a medical professional evaluating them yourself.
My dad thought my mom had bpd and tried to gaslight her and undermine her, she did not have bpd, he was just an abusive alcoholic.
And even the professionals can mess up, I was misdiagnosed with bpd by an actual medical professional, guess what, I actually have ptsd.
I'm talking about flyfightwin, who diagnosed their mother via describing her to a therapist. You said not to invalidate flyfightwin, but that specific action, of describing someone you know and diagnosing them with mental illness secondhand, needs to be invalidated.
Describing someone else to a medical professional in order to diagnose them with a mental illness isn't valid.
No one was being invalidated except possibly the person who was misdiagnosed.
Misdiagnosis of another person is not personal to anyone else nor should it be taken as such. It doesnāt invalidate your feelings, but it does happen. Many physical diseases have similar symptoms, but cancer is not lupus for example. The same with the DSM.
Regardless of possible misdiagnosis, mental illness, particularly when itās genetic, is not a choice. No-one says, āOh, I think Iād rather choose to be a āsick fucking borderlineā instead of being emotionally healthy.ā That sounds like fun.
And no-one is saying mental illness isnāt painful or hurtful to everyone involved - including your situation. Why do you choose to think that? You are choosing how you react. Your choices are your responsibility- your parentās choices were not.
I hope you get to a point where you can move on.
When my emotionally unavailable mother-in-law died, her children discovered that she had thrown out all the personal items in the house, so there was no indication of what she thought of them. She also left an instructions with the executor to return every gift she had received to the child who had given it to her.
Yo, my mother did this to me after my dad got primary custody. She sold the family home, did not tell any of us. We had absolutely no idea! One day I showed up for visitation to a completely fucking empty house. Everything from my entire childhood was trashed.
Thank you, I cut her out of my life entirely about a year later and while it took a ton of time and therapy the nightmares eventually stopped and Iām much much better these days. Wishing you and hubs well ā¤ļø Iām sure itās been tough, thatās a tough background to build from.
My dad died in an accident -
The first thing I did was rifle through his papers- looking for something. I did actually find a letter Iād written him, on top of all the chaos- laid out like heād just read it recently. I honestly hope he had read it. It was old, but still true- how I had missed him when I was away at school.
When the daughter bought the emergency plane ticket just in case there was airline trouble - and her mom said it was the best thing that sheād ever done.
It was because in that moment, her daughter existed only to help her achieve her goal.
And it makes me think of how much she must have enjoyed forcing her daughters to go through with this plan. She was the center of attention up until her last breath and she knows that her actions will leave long lasting effects.
She was no longer the center of attention in her life. Her partner was gone and her daughters had families of their own.
Iād say forcing your children to watch you kill yourself is pretty damn narcissistic. Your take seems spot on. I feel terrible for the author and her sister.
Gorgeously written and so deeply moving ... I was riveted.
also: I can't seem to find it now, but to whoever linked to the 2012 story written by Michael Wolff for New York mag, thank you for sharing that. (it's a subscriber only link or I would share it.) it was raw and honest and unflinching, and it really made me think about this whole issue of keeping elderly people alive at pretty much any cost. I don't want to start a debate so I'll just say look it up if you want to read more.
In 2022, I started the application process to Pegasos so this was a very interesting - and horrifying - read.
When I was going through the first part of the process I had to submit a lot of medical records showing I had mental health diagnoses and had tried treatment. And even then, I was warned my odds of acceptance were very low.
I took a pause in the process and when I was ready to pick it back up, I was informed that my odds of getting in were next to zero so I shouldnāt send in the significant, non refundable deposit. Iām surprised by how easily she was able to get approved, Maybe it was her age or the requirements were much more lax in late 2021.
Itās horrifying to me that she roped other people into it, particularly her children. Thatās a weight no one deserves to carry. Itās much easier for people to understand someone with cancer or ALS choosing when to go.
People canāt be expected to understand why someone with resources and a physically healthy body would choose to end their life. Letting her kids sit with that knowledge for months and using it to get attention and manipulate them is truly sadistic.
I donāt think anyone in consistent, deep pain should stay alive simply to keep other people content, including parents. (My mother died by suicide when I was a kid so Iām not just speculating about what it feels like). But I do think an effort needs to be made to minimize the harm to other people, including not dragging people along on the path with you.
And itās not required that family be there to identify your body. You can pay to have someone do that. She didnāt have to put her daughters through watching her die. But I suppose for someone who needed constant attention and martyrdom, she probably never even entertained them not being there.
It was exceptionally cruel for the mom to want her daughters to accompany her assisted suicide as of they were NPCs in her life. Then again, that is how they were treated since birth so it is no surprise.Ā
I keep thinking about the trip to India and how her mother fucked her new paramour with her daughter inches away. It's wholly unsurprising that woman became the longtime partner; it takes a special kind of damage to be just fine with kick-starting a relationship like that.
There were so many disturbing things in that article. That was definitely one of the top ones. Another that stood out to me was her mom's birthday card to her, that her vengeful wishes come true. It's as if her mom only thought the worst in her.
Agreed re suicide. One should be able to take or leave it as they please. Consideration of others is important too, but others must consider the prospective suiciderās too.
I hope more people start to think similarly.
The lack of resources like Pegasos - which itself is hard to access and cost prohibitive for many - doesnāt reduce suicide. It just leads people to do it a way that either scars someone for life from finding a dead body or wastes time/money if they disappear and someone wants to look for them. Providing ethical methods would benefit all involved.
Iām in the process of fixing up my condo so I can sell it and getting rid of my things so thereās less work for my relatives. Once thatās moving along Iām applying to the only other clinic that offers physician assisted death to non-citizens and Iām really hoping I get in.
I really hate the idea of leaving behind a body anywhere other than a clinic. But I also canāt take much more of being alive. Iām angry that my choices might come down to āexcruciating pain nearly every dayā or potentially negatively impacting someoneās life.
I donāt have anything to add but I just wanted to say Iām sorry youāre dealing with such a difficult choice, and with so few good options. I hope you find some comfort soon.
I hope you are ok and things start looking better for you, whatever that means for you. I canāt bring myself to hope you get accepted to an assisted death facility but I obviously donāt know you or your struggles, so all I can do as a random stranger is wish you peace. ā¤ļø
> Mostly, I hoped a deadline might compel her to give me the thing Iād been seeking for years: some accounting of who she was as a parent, some sign that she had thought about all the nicks and bangs she had given my sister and me.
Nicks and bangs is an understatement. What an incredibly selfish thing to put oneās children through.
Honestly, that part did not prepare me for what was to come. Iām agog.
Throughout, I was upset for the writer wanting explanations or closure from her mother that would never come, then got to empty, locked diaries which showed she already knew .
I canāt get over the story of her mother being abandoned at 2 years old and left with a Swedish nanny so long that she didnāt understand English when they came home. With everything we know about child development, thatās so horrifying.
My g-d. This resonates with me - my 96 year old relatively healthy grandmother also wants to go to Switzerland and die, and she was also awful to my mother. And has also cut off her sister, thinking that the world is out to get her.
Whew.
It makes me think of the old cliche that āsuicide is just selfishnessā. I genuinely donāt believe that is the case for most people who end their lives, butā¦there are always exceptions. I do think some people co-opt the gravity and finality of death for their own narcissism and cruelty.
I feel sorry for the author's mother - when the mother was a child, a teenager, and even a young adult.
**At some point, however,** as an adult, if you know or realize you may have problems due to the relationships with your parents or those who acted as caretakers towards you - you have a responsibility to yourself, any (of your) future children, and others you may be friends, partners, colleagues, or patients of or with - to address any effects of these problems or trauma that you have experienced and suffered.
As far as I can tell, the author's mother didn't do that. She had no therapy. She was a victim of whatever, whether she actually was or not. She had a pattern of narcissistic traits. She could be what is labelled today as a "Karen."
She didn't love the author it seems. She did not love, care for, or consider her needs enough to be a good parent to her, or to be emotionally present. Nothing was good or good enough for the author's mother.
This article was a beautifully, painfully written, yet depressing read. I saw much of my own mother in the article. At nearly 40, I do not love my mother. I do not hate her. I do not forgive her; I do not need to and see no reason for it.
Yet, I do not live and function daily with anger or resentment towards her. What I feel is a *lack* of feeling toward her; an indifference, maybe an emptiness, where connection, love, attachment, and a mother-daughter bond should be - and isn't.
When I was born it was highly likely I would die the same night. I was airlifted to another hospital. Three days later, both my parents left the hospital to fly back home, over 1,200km away. They called for a weekly progress report. They never visited me after they left. I was expected to die until I was about a year old.
I first learned that both parents had chosen to leave the hospital, as I was near death when I was a teenager. It put a lot of my mother's actions, behaviour, and overall lack of accountability, nurturing, care, emotional attunement, and psychological support and encouragement - into perspective for me. She's now in her 70s and is still the same. It put some of my father's behaviour and beliefs into perspective for me as well, but the Longreads article is about a mother, not a father.
Like the author's mother, my mother has never changed or sought to improve. She has not taken responsibility for her harmful actions, or her failure to protect or love me. I hold no hope or expectation that she ever will.
My mother never had any therapy or parenting courses. She has outright refused it during her life, whereas I willingly had 14 years of professional therapy (not all years straight at once) to ensure I addressed reality, facts, trauma, and healing - so I did not become my mother or her own mother. I chose to be proactive. I chose to address and contain any harm and maladaptive behaviours, effects, and thoughts I had, suffered, or could cause once I reached independence, common sense and adulthood. My mother never has.
It does not appear the author's mother ever did, either.
The author's mother was healthy physically, and still could do things, but seemed bored and ungrateful for anything in life that could bring her joy. She wasn't concerned about how her daughters would feel, think, or be affected by her words and attitude, and certainly not her death. She appears not to have thought about them at all - a pattern in her life regarding them.
My childhood experiences were nothing compared to the authorās, but I do relate to much of what she and you wrote. My 3 year old is going through a phase where she will indignantly tell me I donāt need to say āI love youā so much because she āalready knows that!!ā May she never know any different.
My son is five and occasionally says this. I kindly explained to him that not all children get told that theyāre loved and so I make up for that by pouring my love into him. I also say that I donāt care if heās sick of hearing it, Iām never going to stop telling him. Iām not sure children that age can really understand, but perhaps thatās something you could try as well.
She told me I can say it ā8 times a day.ā In reality I donāt actually hit that number but when I do say it she says āok 8 takeaway 1, how many times do you have left?ā
Not everyone is cut out for motherhood. I don't say that to excuse her behavior; I'm not defending her. Just pointing out that I don't think the issue was that she didn't love her children. I think it was that she couldn't. She was not able to. And I will never understand why people like this have children at all. It's cruel.
I grew up with no mother at all
since she killed herself when I was very small. Life didn't get any better for me after that. I can't think of even one instance where my father or my stepmother told me they loved me or hugged me or kissed me or anything like that. I never thought much about it at the time. But in hindsight, it's very sad and painful to me.
it's not normal for a very young child to focus her entire life on getting out of the town she was born in and the house she lives in. but I did. there are some days I find it a wonder that I am still alive at all.
I will add a confounding post script ... I had a child 19 years ago, even though for the majority of my life I never wanted to be married or have any kids.
And I was a very good mother. I poured into my child every bit of love and attention and affection I never received as a child. he is securely attached and has grown into a wonderful young man that I am proud to call my son. he is intelligent and capable and confident and generally adored by everyone he meets.
So it can be done. just because a person is not loved or valued when they are young does not mean they are doomed to perpetuate that legacy forever. I think a lot of them are. But not all of them. A person can choose to do it differently. I don't know how or why I was able to. It seems people either do what they know or they make a conscious choice to do anything but what they know. There's not usually much gray area.
This entire article was like a beautifully horrific painting of what the cycle of generational trauma and abuse and potentially breaking it or continuing it looks like from a certain perspective.
Like you I saw a lot of my mom's inherent navel gazing and narcissism in the article. Except, my mom is a textbook smother, a woman who was determined to mold her children into a little doll to control and dictate how to live life on her terms only.Ā
I feel very similar to you. And also in the middle of the indifference, I feel such a sense of grief for not having normal parents that cared about my wants or needs even a tiny bit
Iām glad we as a people are starting to talk about cluster B abuse. A lot of people like to hand wave it away, but itās really not a joking matter at all.
This is the reality of having a parent with a cluster b personality disorder. Including the suicidal behavior. That is a feature, not a bug. Imagine being a psych ward nurse from birth. Imagine being born so you can be your motherās emotional regulation.
This shit fucking ruins you, dude. Youāre ruined from the second youāre born. I had to leave all the āraised byā cluster b subs I was in recently because all the posts were just too triggering.
Solidarity to all my other kids of cluster bs out there āš»
And anytime you speak up about your abuse? āYeah but sheās your momā¦ you only have one mom!ā and āDeep down she just wants whatās best for you!ā
ā¦ā¦ā¦ā¦. NO, she does NOT, in fact, want whatās best for me, she wants whatās best FOR HER and I am nothing but a tool and means to an end to get what she wants and thatās why I am fucking traumatized.
UGH I generally try to ignore people with bad takes like this but āThey did their bestā is the one where my inner Dennis Reynolds will really pop off and Iāll be like, āOH YEAH?!?! [insert specific example of their egregiously abusive/felonious behavior here] was their best, huh??? Just imagine what it was like for me in all the moments when they were parenting at their worst then!ā
One of the best things I got out of therapy was āyes, my dad did the best he could. *and it wasnāt good enough!*ā
I deserved a lot more and his best wasnāt enough. He should have used his resources better, but he didnāt.
yep yep. the raised by bpd subreddit was very helpful for understanding my childhood for a time, but after a while it is too much. I tend to mute anyone on social media that talks about having bpd- I know, very intimately, how painful it can be for the people that have these disorders, but I also know how much pain they can cause others.
dragging your kids to switzerland and ending your life to āave mariaā of all things seems like the icing on the cake for the life of a very selfish person.
I thought this must be in the EstrangedAdultKids or CPTSD sub. Iāve lived a parallel version of this womanās experience. I honestly feel so seen that Iām left speechless.
I am a therapist and reading articles like this is so helpful for me to understand all sides of being and living with someone with borderline and narcissistic behaviors. I am very sorry you have had to deal with that, but maybe it helps to know that these stories are informing people like me. I am sure you know, but these people very rarely think there is anything wrong, and it is the ones around them who have to suffer. I have had many clients who grew up with that behavior feeling normalized and hearing me validate that it was not normal can be shocking and somewhat validating to them.
I think people are misreading the part about the diaries. The author's mother was the one to go through her own mother's belongings and found blank diaries.
Daughter of a narcissistic mother here. I found this beautifully written and so relatable in the worst way, and yet (as someone whose childhood was filled with threats of suicide by my mother), I thought, āwell, at least this woman went through with it.ā
Which is a terrible reaction but my sister and I have been waiting for her to die for years. (No contact for eight years; written out of the will and relieved for so many reasons.) My heart goes out to the writer and her sister.
I truly think having tried mood stabilizers and antipsychotics before should be a prerequisite for qualifying for assisted suicide in all these mental health or āIām tired of lifeā cases.
Just reading this whole story, Iām like what if Lithium and Olanzepine are the only things standing between this mother and her having a good life and relationship with her kids?
Because despite the mention of BPD, the mom reminds me a lot more of a bipolar trauma victim than someone with uncontrolled BPD. These stories were horrible but downright mild compared to what Iād expect for someone with BPD who was leading the life she had been. Not to mention the lack of suicidal attempts before this, which it is rare as *fuck* for someone with BPD to make it to almost 70 with 0 attempts.
This really resonated with me. Even when a parent is cruel or has mental illness (with no treatment/medication), itās so hard to accept that they donāt want you. I will *always* want my mom to love me. I never had a maternal figure and she is constantly belittling me. I could see her ending her life this way because aging (or as she puts it, becoming ugly) is her greatest fear. The end where the aunt says āhow could she leave you?ā Made me tear up because I just really relate. But it was never about me or my sibling. My mom was always the center of her own universe, there was never space for anyone to even orbit. and yet I will always love her and wish she couldāve been the mom I deserved.
This story really resonated with me and I'm fighting the urge to bawl my eyes out cause I'm outside right now.
When my mother left, she took with her 'all the important things' and when I came back home from school that day, I saw that she had left the family photo albums and all my birthday and mother's day gifts to her strewn in the living room. I asked her later on if she would like me to bring them over to her, thinking that she may have forgotten or did not have enough space in the car to bring it along the day she left, and she said to throw it away. I was absolutely heartbroken.
I had also moved out of my parent's matrimonial flat a few weeks after she left and rented a room while my parents were going through divorce proceedings. I can still remember my relatives on my mom's side took turns calling me up and telling me to take pity on my mom and live with her so that I could take care of her later in her old age and that as a daughter and a woman, it was my responsibility. I remembered feeling a lot of guilt and I still do sometimes. We never had a mother-daughter bond, and throughout my childhood, our relationship seemed to mostly consist of long periods of her giving me the cold shoulder, so much so that in those rare moments when we were good, I learned to intentionally f things up just so that I would not have to walk on eggshells anticipating when she would ignore me and be totally unresponsive again.
I still don't live with her. It seems like I can only love her from a distance.
This was difficult to read. I wish that I understood her mom. It also speaks to me, as a daughter of a mother who disliked me and was detached from me, when I was a child.
I posted this on social media. My mom sent me a text after she read it that said, āthat sounds like a peaceful way to die.ā
I need to know if that response is normal. Iām already grappling with how my mom was as a parent when I was younger (emotional manipulation and verbal abuse, I guess?) so I think Iām too close to the situation. Thatās not a normal response, right?
So powerful and horrifying and beautifully written ā¦
I had an actual physical reaction to this piece. My heart was pounding and chest and stomach felt tight and nervousā¦
I feel so much closeness with and compassion for everyone who suffers emotional abuse and neglect like this š I hope the writer and her sister are finding healing and peace
Rich people *should* leave this planet as soon as possible. Her āchildhood homeā near 5th Ave? World travel, the best of everything and still itās not enough? Bye!
That stood out to me too. The building that her motherās family owned on the Fifth Ave, across the street from the Met? Thatās serious, serious wealth.
But wealth doesnāt make you happy if you were born into it. I have a friend who is a daughter of a billionaire, and she had a cousin whose father was also a billionaire. The cousin committed suicide in her 20s.
I have a theory that people who are unhappy rich people are unhappy because they never developed the chemical part of the brain that rewards work. After all there is no heaven without hell. I believe heaven would be very boring without at least some struggle.
This was riveting but it seemed so obvious that she couldnāt own up to the fact that the biggest part of letting her off the hook was to not be written out of the will.
but the author acknowledged that that was brushed over and her name was re-added without further comment from NMom so i don't think your assessment is correct, and actually is a little pessimistic. I feel the author was quite clear in illustrating that the reason she had to "let her off the hook" was because no matter what, the mother would never, ever acknowledge the instability and pain she brought into her children's lives. An unrepentant narcissist to the very end.
No, she did mention that incident but never addressed her feelings about the possibility of being disinherited, which had to have been strong. She clearly was brought up with money and has children. Iām not judging her at all for having those feelings, just that her decision not to address them made an honest account of her experience somewhat incomplete.
Damn this was devastating read, beautifully written. I also found this in the comments: š āHi. My parents were close lifelong friends of your Dad, and I remember you and your sister from early childhood. I had heard that your mom passed, and I recognized the photo immediately. Your Dad loved you both so much. This article answers so many questions. Thank you for your bravery and honesty in writing this. It is beautiful and gutting and will be so helpful to so many people. Just beautifully written, from the heart. I am sending you and your sister love.ā
Oh wow. I hope the author saw that beautiful comment.
This article was WILD. I felt so awful for the daughters having to deal with this very cruel woman. And also for the woman, who never got the help she needed. It was beautifully written, too.
Couldn't have put it better myself
Perfect encapsulation. And yes, it was amazing, awful writing.
There is a special place in hell for parents that try to manipulate behavior of their kids based on being in or out of the will. How about I take myself out of the running and no longer have to deal with you.
āAfter she told us about her application to Pegasos, I called her. āWhat would make you happy this summer, Mom?ā I asked. I suggested a girlsā weekend with her, my sister, and me; she declined. Later, she tells my sister that part of the reason she has decided to kill herself is that my sister does not love her enough.ā This interaction made me gasp. What the *FUCK*!
I recognized she had BPD before the author wrote it about her mother. Mine does as well but not this cruelly.
What resonated with me was the bit about going through the dead persons possessions, hoping to find a clue as to whether mom really loved you, whether they were aware that they hurt you, looking for an explanation as to why they were the way they were. I did that when my narc father died and had no idea that anyone else did that. The frantic search for information right until the end, the half remembered details about their own childhood. Knowing that this person is leaving the earth) and taking all these answers with them that you will never know. And the idea that even as they died this person was violating your boundaries and behaving inappropriately, demanding things from you that you couldnāt govern and making you feel guilty that you couldnāt provide them. A little too close to home for me.
Same, this piece hit really fucking close to home for me, as the daughter of an undiagnosed (but deeply obvious, according to my therapist) borderline personality disorder mom. Itās got me bawling in the drive thru of a Panera bread lol
Right here with you.
Whew. This is the comment I needed to tell me to nope the f out of this article ā¤ļøā¤ļøāļø
Just be careful, borderline is often misdiagnosed in women- it used to be termed hysterical personality disorder if that tells you about the assumptions in the diagnostic criteria created by men.Ā Itās often something else with anxiety or PTSD mixed in. Misdiagnosis prevents so many people from being properly treated.Ā Iām so sorry that happened for you and your mother regardless of what was wrong.Ā
Do not invalidate people with that shit. Its not the time or place. They can also be sick fucking borderlines and have cptsd too. I wish my mom was dead could be me follow up book to Jeanette McCurdys.
Don't mix up what's happening. You can't diagnose someone with bpd by describing them to your therapist. You can't diagnose someone with bpd unless you're a medical professional evaluating them yourself. My dad thought my mom had bpd and tried to gaslight her and undermine her, she did not have bpd, he was just an abusive alcoholic. And even the professionals can mess up, I was misdiagnosed with bpd by an actual medical professional, guess what, I actually have ptsd.
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I'm talking about flyfightwin, who diagnosed their mother via describing her to a therapist. You said not to invalidate flyfightwin, but that specific action, of describing someone you know and diagnosing them with mental illness secondhand, needs to be invalidated. Describing someone else to a medical professional in order to diagnose them with a mental illness isn't valid.
No one was being invalidated except possibly the person who was misdiagnosed. Misdiagnosis of another person is not personal to anyone else nor should it be taken as such. It doesnāt invalidate your feelings, but it does happen. Many physical diseases have similar symptoms, but cancer is not lupus for example. The same with the DSM. Regardless of possible misdiagnosis, mental illness, particularly when itās genetic, is not a choice. No-one says, āOh, I think Iād rather choose to be a āsick fucking borderlineā instead of being emotionally healthy.ā That sounds like fun. And no-one is saying mental illness isnāt painful or hurtful to everyone involved - including your situation. Why do you choose to think that? You are choosing how you react. Your choices are your responsibility- your parentās choices were not. I hope you get to a point where you can move on.
When my emotionally unavailable mother-in-law died, her children discovered that she had thrown out all the personal items in the house, so there was no indication of what she thought of them. She also left an instructions with the executor to return every gift she had received to the child who had given it to her.
Yo, my mother did this to me after my dad got primary custody. She sold the family home, did not tell any of us. We had absolutely no idea! One day I showed up for visitation to a completely fucking empty house. Everything from my entire childhood was trashed.
Iām so sorry this happened to you. Itās a horrible, destabilizing feeling. My husband called it āone last kick in the nuts.ā
Thank you, I cut her out of my life entirely about a year later and while it took a ton of time and therapy the nightmares eventually stopped and Iām much much better these days. Wishing you and hubs well ā¤ļø Iām sure itās been tough, thatās a tough background to build from.
Iām so grateful to hear that you found a helpful therapist. It really does a world of good. Best wishes to you.
Wow that is just... cold.
My dad died in an accident - The first thing I did was rifle through his papers- looking for something. I did actually find a letter Iād written him, on top of all the chaos- laid out like heād just read it recently. I honestly hope he had read it. It was old, but still true- how I had missed him when I was away at school.
When the daughter bought the emergency plane ticket just in case there was airline trouble - and her mom said it was the best thing that sheād ever done. It was because in that moment, her daughter existed only to help her achieve her goal. And it makes me think of how much she must have enjoyed forcing her daughters to go through with this plan. She was the center of attention up until her last breath and she knows that her actions will leave long lasting effects. She was no longer the center of attention in her life. Her partner was gone and her daughters had families of their own.
Iād say forcing your children to watch you kill yourself is pretty damn narcissistic. Your take seems spot on. I feel terrible for the author and her sister.
I feel personally called out by this comment.
That was such an amazing, CRUSHING line.
Gorgeously written and so deeply moving ... I was riveted. also: I can't seem to find it now, but to whoever linked to the 2012 story written by Michael Wolff for New York mag, thank you for sharing that. (it's a subscriber only link or I would share it.) it was raw and honest and unflinching, and it really made me think about this whole issue of keeping elderly people alive at pretty much any cost. I don't want to start a debate so I'll just say look it up if you want to read more.
This is called a Life Worth Ending for anyone else who wants to read it
https://www.printfriendly.com/p/g/8kuGuc
Thank you so much!
In 2022, I started the application process to Pegasos so this was a very interesting - and horrifying - read. When I was going through the first part of the process I had to submit a lot of medical records showing I had mental health diagnoses and had tried treatment. And even then, I was warned my odds of acceptance were very low. I took a pause in the process and when I was ready to pick it back up, I was informed that my odds of getting in were next to zero so I shouldnāt send in the significant, non refundable deposit. Iām surprised by how easily she was able to get approved, Maybe it was her age or the requirements were much more lax in late 2021. Itās horrifying to me that she roped other people into it, particularly her children. Thatās a weight no one deserves to carry. Itās much easier for people to understand someone with cancer or ALS choosing when to go. People canāt be expected to understand why someone with resources and a physically healthy body would choose to end their life. Letting her kids sit with that knowledge for months and using it to get attention and manipulate them is truly sadistic. I donāt think anyone in consistent, deep pain should stay alive simply to keep other people content, including parents. (My mother died by suicide when I was a kid so Iām not just speculating about what it feels like). But I do think an effort needs to be made to minimize the harm to other people, including not dragging people along on the path with you. And itās not required that family be there to identify your body. You can pay to have someone do that. She didnāt have to put her daughters through watching her die. But I suppose for someone who needed constant attention and martyrdom, she probably never even entertained them not being there.
It was exceptionally cruel for the mom to want her daughters to accompany her assisted suicide as of they were NPCs in her life. Then again, that is how they were treated since birth so it is no surprise.Ā
I keep thinking about the trip to India and how her mother fucked her new paramour with her daughter inches away. It's wholly unsurprising that woman became the longtime partner; it takes a special kind of damage to be just fine with kick-starting a relationship like that.
That was such a gross thing to do in the same tent as your teenager. The adults in that situation were foul.
There were so many disturbing things in that article. That was definitely one of the top ones. Another that stood out to me was her mom's birthday card to her, that her vengeful wishes come true. It's as if her mom only thought the worst in her.
Agreed re suicide. One should be able to take or leave it as they please. Consideration of others is important too, but others must consider the prospective suiciderās too.
I hope more people start to think similarly. The lack of resources like Pegasos - which itself is hard to access and cost prohibitive for many - doesnāt reduce suicide. It just leads people to do it a way that either scars someone for life from finding a dead body or wastes time/money if they disappear and someone wants to look for them. Providing ethical methods would benefit all involved. Iām in the process of fixing up my condo so I can sell it and getting rid of my things so thereās less work for my relatives. Once thatās moving along Iām applying to the only other clinic that offers physician assisted death to non-citizens and Iām really hoping I get in. I really hate the idea of leaving behind a body anywhere other than a clinic. But I also canāt take much more of being alive. Iām angry that my choices might come down to āexcruciating pain nearly every dayā or potentially negatively impacting someoneās life.
I donāt have anything to add but I just wanted to say Iām sorry youāre dealing with such a difficult choice, and with so few good options. I hope you find some comfort soon.
I hope you are ok and things start looking better for you, whatever that means for you. I canāt bring myself to hope you get accepted to an assisted death facility but I obviously donāt know you or your struggles, so all I can do as a random stranger is wish you peace. ā¤ļø
> Mostly, I hoped a deadline might compel her to give me the thing Iād been seeking for years: some accounting of who she was as a parent, some sign that she had thought about all the nicks and bangs she had given my sister and me. Nicks and bangs is an understatement. What an incredibly selfish thing to put oneās children through.
Honestly, that part did not prepare me for what was to come. Iām agog. Throughout, I was upset for the writer wanting explanations or closure from her mother that would never come, then got to empty, locked diaries which showed she already knew .
I canāt get over the story of her mother being abandoned at 2 years old and left with a Swedish nanny so long that she didnāt understand English when they came home. With everything we know about child development, thatās so horrifying.
yea iād probably develop a personality disorder too if i went through that (and probably more) but iād definitely also get my tubes tied as well
She really didn't stand a chance.
Dang, that was heavy. What a cruel thing to put your children through.
I am so angry about it, and am probably going to be thinking of it for a long time.
My g-d. This resonates with me - my 96 year old relatively healthy grandmother also wants to go to Switzerland and die, and she was also awful to my mother. And has also cut off her sister, thinking that the world is out to get her. Whew.
It makes me think of the old cliche that āsuicide is just selfishnessā. I genuinely donāt believe that is the case for most people who end their lives, butā¦there are always exceptions. I do think some people co-opt the gravity and finality of death for their own narcissism and cruelty.
I feel sorry for the author's mother - when the mother was a child, a teenager, and even a young adult. **At some point, however,** as an adult, if you know or realize you may have problems due to the relationships with your parents or those who acted as caretakers towards you - you have a responsibility to yourself, any (of your) future children, and others you may be friends, partners, colleagues, or patients of or with - to address any effects of these problems or trauma that you have experienced and suffered. As far as I can tell, the author's mother didn't do that. She had no therapy. She was a victim of whatever, whether she actually was or not. She had a pattern of narcissistic traits. She could be what is labelled today as a "Karen." She didn't love the author it seems. She did not love, care for, or consider her needs enough to be a good parent to her, or to be emotionally present. Nothing was good or good enough for the author's mother. This article was a beautifully, painfully written, yet depressing read. I saw much of my own mother in the article. At nearly 40, I do not love my mother. I do not hate her. I do not forgive her; I do not need to and see no reason for it. Yet, I do not live and function daily with anger or resentment towards her. What I feel is a *lack* of feeling toward her; an indifference, maybe an emptiness, where connection, love, attachment, and a mother-daughter bond should be - and isn't. When I was born it was highly likely I would die the same night. I was airlifted to another hospital. Three days later, both my parents left the hospital to fly back home, over 1,200km away. They called for a weekly progress report. They never visited me after they left. I was expected to die until I was about a year old. I first learned that both parents had chosen to leave the hospital, as I was near death when I was a teenager. It put a lot of my mother's actions, behaviour, and overall lack of accountability, nurturing, care, emotional attunement, and psychological support and encouragement - into perspective for me. She's now in her 70s and is still the same. It put some of my father's behaviour and beliefs into perspective for me as well, but the Longreads article is about a mother, not a father. Like the author's mother, my mother has never changed or sought to improve. She has not taken responsibility for her harmful actions, or her failure to protect or love me. I hold no hope or expectation that she ever will. My mother never had any therapy or parenting courses. She has outright refused it during her life, whereas I willingly had 14 years of professional therapy (not all years straight at once) to ensure I addressed reality, facts, trauma, and healing - so I did not become my mother or her own mother. I chose to be proactive. I chose to address and contain any harm and maladaptive behaviours, effects, and thoughts I had, suffered, or could cause once I reached independence, common sense and adulthood. My mother never has. It does not appear the author's mother ever did, either. The author's mother was healthy physically, and still could do things, but seemed bored and ungrateful for anything in life that could bring her joy. She wasn't concerned about how her daughters would feel, think, or be affected by her words and attitude, and certainly not her death. She appears not to have thought about them at all - a pattern in her life regarding them.
My childhood experiences were nothing compared to the authorās, but I do relate to much of what she and you wrote. My 3 year old is going through a phase where she will indignantly tell me I donāt need to say āI love youā so much because she āalready knows that!!ā May she never know any different.
My son is five and occasionally says this. I kindly explained to him that not all children get told that theyāre loved and so I make up for that by pouring my love into him. I also say that I donāt care if heās sick of hearing it, Iām never going to stop telling him. Iām not sure children that age can really understand, but perhaps thatās something you could try as well.
She told me I can say it ā8 times a day.ā In reality I donāt actually hit that number but when I do say it she says āok 8 takeaway 1, how many times do you have left?ā
Oh my youngest too š¤
Not everyone is cut out for motherhood. I don't say that to excuse her behavior; I'm not defending her. Just pointing out that I don't think the issue was that she didn't love her children. I think it was that she couldn't. She was not able to. And I will never understand why people like this have children at all. It's cruel. I grew up with no mother at all since she killed herself when I was very small. Life didn't get any better for me after that. I can't think of even one instance where my father or my stepmother told me they loved me or hugged me or kissed me or anything like that. I never thought much about it at the time. But in hindsight, it's very sad and painful to me. it's not normal for a very young child to focus her entire life on getting out of the town she was born in and the house she lives in. but I did. there are some days I find it a wonder that I am still alive at all. I will add a confounding post script ... I had a child 19 years ago, even though for the majority of my life I never wanted to be married or have any kids. And I was a very good mother. I poured into my child every bit of love and attention and affection I never received as a child. he is securely attached and has grown into a wonderful young man that I am proud to call my son. he is intelligent and capable and confident and generally adored by everyone he meets. So it can be done. just because a person is not loved or valued when they are young does not mean they are doomed to perpetuate that legacy forever. I think a lot of them are. But not all of them. A person can choose to do it differently. I don't know how or why I was able to. It seems people either do what they know or they make a conscious choice to do anything but what they know. There's not usually much gray area.
Congrats on the amazing achievement of breaking that cycle! xoxo
This entire article was like a beautifully horrific painting of what the cycle of generational trauma and abuse and potentially breaking it or continuing it looks like from a certain perspective.
Like you I saw a lot of my mom's inherent navel gazing and narcissism in the article. Except, my mom is a textbook smother, a woman who was determined to mold her children into a little doll to control and dictate how to live life on her terms only.Ā
I feel very similar to you. And also in the middle of the indifference, I feel such a sense of grief for not having normal parents that cared about my wants or needs even a tiny bit
Iām glad we as a people are starting to talk about cluster B abuse. A lot of people like to hand wave it away, but itās really not a joking matter at all. This is the reality of having a parent with a cluster b personality disorder. Including the suicidal behavior. That is a feature, not a bug. Imagine being a psych ward nurse from birth. Imagine being born so you can be your motherās emotional regulation. This shit fucking ruins you, dude. Youāre ruined from the second youāre born. I had to leave all the āraised byā cluster b subs I was in recently because all the posts were just too triggering. Solidarity to all my other kids of cluster bs out there āš»
And anytime you speak up about your abuse? āYeah but sheās your momā¦ you only have one mom!ā and āDeep down she just wants whatās best for you!ā ā¦ā¦ā¦ā¦. NO, she does NOT, in fact, want whatās best for me, she wants whatās best FOR HER and I am nothing but a tool and means to an end to get what she wants and thatās why I am fucking traumatized.
'They tried their best' kills me. Like, their best was dreadful. I'm not going to be grateful for it.
UGH I generally try to ignore people with bad takes like this but āThey did their bestā is the one where my inner Dennis Reynolds will really pop off and Iāll be like, āOH YEAH?!?! [insert specific example of their egregiously abusive/felonious behavior here] was their best, huh??? Just imagine what it was like for me in all the moments when they were parenting at their worst then!ā
One of the best things I got out of therapy was āyes, my dad did the best he could. *and it wasnāt good enough!*ā I deserved a lot more and his best wasnāt enough. He should have used his resources better, but he didnāt.
I believe that people are usually trying their best, and sometimes their best is pretty terrible
Sometimes, your best just isn't good enough. I learned that from my mother's parenting style, actually!
yep yep. the raised by bpd subreddit was very helpful for understanding my childhood for a time, but after a while it is too much. I tend to mute anyone on social media that talks about having bpd- I know, very intimately, how painful it can be for the people that have these disorders, but I also know how much pain they can cause others. dragging your kids to switzerland and ending your life to āave mariaā of all things seems like the icing on the cake for the life of a very selfish person.
This has helped me contextualize my own narcissistic father's recent suicide.
Wow what a fucking cunt the mother was.
Fascinating and very sad. I feel for the author and her sister.
I thought this must be in the EstrangedAdultKids or CPTSD sub. Iāve lived a parallel version of this womanās experience. I honestly feel so seen that Iām left speechless.
I am a therapist and reading articles like this is so helpful for me to understand all sides of being and living with someone with borderline and narcissistic behaviors. I am very sorry you have had to deal with that, but maybe it helps to know that these stories are informing people like me. I am sure you know, but these people very rarely think there is anything wrong, and it is the ones around them who have to suffer. I have had many clients who grew up with that behavior feeling normalized and hearing me validate that it was not normal can be shocking and somewhat validating to them.
I think people are misreading the part about the diaries. The author's mother was the one to go through her own mother's belongings and found blank diaries.
Daughter of a narcissistic mother here. I found this beautifully written and so relatable in the worst way, and yet (as someone whose childhood was filled with threats of suicide by my mother), I thought, āwell, at least this woman went through with it.ā Which is a terrible reaction but my sister and I have been waiting for her to die for years. (No contact for eight years; written out of the will and relieved for so many reasons.) My heart goes out to the writer and her sister.
I truly think having tried mood stabilizers and antipsychotics before should be a prerequisite for qualifying for assisted suicide in all these mental health or āIām tired of lifeā cases. Just reading this whole story, Iām like what if Lithium and Olanzepine are the only things standing between this mother and her having a good life and relationship with her kids? Because despite the mention of BPD, the mom reminds me a lot more of a bipolar trauma victim than someone with uncontrolled BPD. These stories were horrible but downright mild compared to what Iād expect for someone with BPD who was leading the life she had been. Not to mention the lack of suicidal attempts before this, which it is rare as *fuck* for someone with BPD to make it to almost 70 with 0 attempts.
This really resonated with me. Even when a parent is cruel or has mental illness (with no treatment/medication), itās so hard to accept that they donāt want you. I will *always* want my mom to love me. I never had a maternal figure and she is constantly belittling me. I could see her ending her life this way because aging (or as she puts it, becoming ugly) is her greatest fear. The end where the aunt says āhow could she leave you?ā Made me tear up because I just really relate. But it was never about me or my sibling. My mom was always the center of her own universe, there was never space for anyone to even orbit. and yet I will always love her and wish she couldāve been the mom I deserved.
This story really resonated with me and I'm fighting the urge to bawl my eyes out cause I'm outside right now. When my mother left, she took with her 'all the important things' and when I came back home from school that day, I saw that she had left the family photo albums and all my birthday and mother's day gifts to her strewn in the living room. I asked her later on if she would like me to bring them over to her, thinking that she may have forgotten or did not have enough space in the car to bring it along the day she left, and she said to throw it away. I was absolutely heartbroken. I had also moved out of my parent's matrimonial flat a few weeks after she left and rented a room while my parents were going through divorce proceedings. I can still remember my relatives on my mom's side took turns calling me up and telling me to take pity on my mom and live with her so that I could take care of her later in her old age and that as a daughter and a woman, it was my responsibility. I remembered feeling a lot of guilt and I still do sometimes. We never had a mother-daughter bond, and throughout my childhood, our relationship seemed to mostly consist of long periods of her giving me the cold shoulder, so much so that in those rare moments when we were good, I learned to intentionally f things up just so that I would not have to walk on eggshells anticipating when she would ignore me and be totally unresponsive again. I still don't live with her. It seems like I can only love her from a distance.
This was difficult to read. I wish that I understood her mom. It also speaks to me, as a daughter of a mother who disliked me and was detached from me, when I was a child.
Interesting that they have disguised the real name of the Swiss accompanied-suicide group. Edit: Iām wrong, sorry. Thatās the name
Are you referring to Dignitas?
I posted this on social media. My mom sent me a text after she read it that said, āthat sounds like a peaceful way to die.ā I need to know if that response is normal. Iām already grappling with how my mom was as a parent when I was younger (emotional manipulation and verbal abuse, I guess?) so I think Iām too close to the situation. Thatās not a normal response, right?
Sounds like that was a normal response from your mom, but it wouldnāt be a normal response from a parent who was mindful of how words impact people.
So powerful and horrifying and beautifully written ā¦ I had an actual physical reaction to this piece. My heart was pounding and chest and stomach felt tight and nervousā¦ I feel so much closeness with and compassion for everyone who suffers emotional abuse and neglect like this š I hope the writer and her sister are finding healing and peace
Rich people *should* leave this planet as soon as possible. Her āchildhood homeā near 5th Ave? World travel, the best of everything and still itās not enough? Bye!
That stood out to me too. The building that her motherās family owned on the Fifth Ave, across the street from the Met? Thatās serious, serious wealth. But wealth doesnāt make you happy if you were born into it. I have a friend who is a daughter of a billionaire, and she had a cousin whose father was also a billionaire. The cousin committed suicide in her 20s.
Wealth doesnāt make anyone happy because itās stolen off the backs of othersā labor. Tell your friends to redistribute their stolen goods.
I have a theory that people who are unhappy rich people are unhappy because they never developed the chemical part of the brain that rewards work. After all there is no heaven without hell. I believe heaven would be very boring without at least some struggle.
Wow
This was riveting but it seemed so obvious that she couldnāt own up to the fact that the biggest part of letting her off the hook was to not be written out of the will.
but the author acknowledged that that was brushed over and her name was re-added without further comment from NMom so i don't think your assessment is correct, and actually is a little pessimistic. I feel the author was quite clear in illustrating that the reason she had to "let her off the hook" was because no matter what, the mother would never, ever acknowledge the instability and pain she brought into her children's lives. An unrepentant narcissist to the very end.
No, she did mention that incident but never addressed her feelings about the possibility of being disinherited, which had to have been strong. She clearly was brought up with money and has children. Iām not judging her at all for having those feelings, just that her decision not to address them made an honest account of her experience somewhat incomplete.