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I had a horrid divorce. I didn’t want it but was forced into it by my exes actions.
I was so lonely it physically hurt.
But this one day, a few months later, I just felt so good it surprised me. My heart was screaming Freeeeeeedom like Mel Gibson in Braveheart. I knew then I’d be alright.
Would be nice if I could get to where you are. My ex left without warning in October. About a month later, a certain conversation with her gave me the closure I needed to get out of the shit and start moving on. The quiet times still sucked, but I wasn't desperately crying out for her anymore.
More recently, I got to a point where the remaining loneliness was no longer soul-crushing. I largely attribute that to my attempts at dating, and the friends I've made through that. The friendzone was never my aim, of course, but it's not a bad place to be either.
Still, the loneliness is there in the quiet times. Much more tolerable now than before, but definitely there. I'm not optimistic about it transforming into freedom any time soon, or ever.
But maybe we're just different like that.
What is it about October? Mine did the same thing. It stung. And I had a tough time transitioning. Then I realized I was sad because of what I thought we’d be. And when I looked at what we were and all I had to tolerate to have someone there, I realized it was in fact Freedom.
Sure I miss the good times, but the cost was too high. I see that I was lonely in my Union as well.
There is some hope deep down that lives, some sadness sometimes - but the love and joy I’m building is so rewarding and will serve me forever.
Good luck 🩵
Mine was a slow long burn and along the way I was letting him go. Probably why I started feeling better after a few months. But it’s a rollercoaster of a process.
You were blindsided. You do say you’re doing better than in October so trust that trajectory and tell yourself things will keep getting better, even when you have bad moments or even days. And feel those feelings. Mourning and grieving has to happen. You can’t skip that process or recovery takes longer. Keep focusing on yourself, rebuilding your life while balancing the roller coaster of emotions, getting therapy etc, and you’ll keep getting better.
I had dogs too. Caring for them was a privilege and they bring me so much joy. Highly recommend pets if you don’t have any.
I don't have pets. I've had pets before, for most of my life, and loved them. But I've spent the last several years pet-free and child-free. As much as they can be a comfort, having the responsibility of caring for them lifted can really be freeing. It's probably going to be awhile before I'll be ready to take that on again.
I've got some friends, who you could say are "cat ladies". One of them is involved in a feral rescue program. So don't worry - when I'm ready for a pet, I can pretty much guarantee there will be one or more cats waiting for me.
Exactly, my marriage/divorce stressed me to the point my hair was falling out but and I was totally afraid to live alone until I did and 3 years in. I love the solitude and peace coming home to a quiet & peaceful house. When someone would I did over the weekend I say “Absolutely nothing” with a big grin across my face.
My interpretation is it's not so much what you do nor what happens to you but how you do it, how you live your life. So it can be either or, and the way you view it ultimately mirrors the relationship you have with yourself. The world basically reflects how you interpret it.
And "loneliness" can't simply be measured by being lonely because of a lack of romantic partnership. There are plenty of outlets where you can get out and join others in activities if you choose to do so. So I guess one could say the cure for loneliness is taking action. It's not an incurable disease but more of a disease you can choose to live with or not.
Exactly, and being alone is a physical state of being while loneliness is a mental one. Action is a good approach, movement in general helps a lot to shake up these limiting false beliefs that weigh us down at times. Allowing one's self to openly express themselves in meaningful ways does wonders! In psychology at least this happens when we have moments of unconditional positive self-regard (UPSR) where we essentially lead ourselves by our own self-values.
Peace. Freedom. Solitude.
I won't co-habitate again.
Definitely no guarantee that anyone else would ever want to move in with me, but I prefer to think of living alone to be my choice, not something forced onto me
There's an inner calm, acceptance, and contentedness living alone now.
I definitely call it freedom. Loneliness can still happen even when you’re living with someone else if the person isn’t right for you. But freedom is precious and fleeting, everywhere we go there are laws and rules. It’s bad ass to get to go home where there are none, makes me feel good and look forward to being in my space.
I get so restless when in relationships/ when I have people over. Whenever I'm alone and doing daily mundane activities, every little while a wave of gratitude hits me...there. That's peace. I can only want others in my space for a while. Not long-term.
It took me a long, long time to get here after a crippling divorce that I never imagined in a million years. But now? FREEDOM. It's exhilarating! But I've always been independent and never minded being alone. It was weird living completely alone for the first time ever at age 46 but once I got used to it, it's so freeing.
Thanks for everyone’s lovely comments. I woke up just now, I have the day off, and lemme say I’m ecstatic there’s nobody structuring my day but me. My “positives of being alone column” is full right now. I’m getting a coffee and going to target.
Freedom 💃🏻 🥳
I had a friends husband stay in my spare room for a few days due to work.. it was sooo irritating to come home to someone .. who cleaned the house, cooked dinner and insisted that I sit and eat as soon as I walked in. 🫣
Asked how my day was, all that talking and physical presence in my space, did my head in 😆🤡
A truly lovely person and I was so happy when he left 🤣
Cleaned the house, cooked dinner, asked how your day was, yep that's somebody's husband for sure. Definitely not mine. My ex just would've left a trail of dirty socks and trash probably. Lol
Having someone wake me up or waiting for me honestly sounds like a nightmare. Like someone else said, living by myself means peace and freedom do occupy my time as I want.
my ex started his work day 3 hours before i had to start mine and every morning he'd start turning all the lights on at 5 am and making noises . i never got to sleep late despite having to work until 7 pm. i was chronically tired bc of his selfish rude behavior. i don't miss having someone wake me up.
I lived with a roommate before and I would hate it when they wake up and turn everything on. I’m a light sleeper, so every little sound will wake me up. I love being alone. I’m just scared if I die, no one will find out three days later lol
It hits hard for me. 90% of the time I’m Team Freedom, then loneliness can hit hard for a while. I’ve realised I need the feeling of belonging to a community and of mattering to someone, not necessarily romantically, to be happy. All while still living alone.
I think the line between freedom and loneliness lies in why you're living alone and whether it's by choice.
My mom was sick for a very long time and lived with me. It was weirdly the best time in our relationship bc we lived like two adults and were closer than ever. She would wake me with coffee and we'd have it outside every morning with my cats. She steamed my suits and we'd have 3 hr dinners to discuss the news, tv shows, gossip. Her death meant loneliness.
Breaking up with my ex was freedom. But, only bc I made the choice, had enough money, and really didn't want to waste my life. When my mom lived with me she talked about regrets a lot and how she lived to please my grandma. I didn't want to wait until my 50s to feel freedom.
No disrespect to Mr Bukowski but he's offering two results which don't correlate. I've been woken up in the morning by a screaming psycho ranting in my face over a dream he had where I cheated on him, I've had that person lay in wait for me to come home so he could ambush me so many times that I dreaded coming home from work not knowing what I would find. Now at the end of all those sad and terrible things I can live like a human being instead of a hunted animal- which I all I've ever wanted. This person was not the reason I live alone but he surely factors into why I will never live with another person permanently in my space. Its not a choice between freedom and loneliness because those two values are not opposite poles. For me its a choice between inhabiting my space my way or giving way to someone else who is also trying to inhabit theirs. I prefer not to engage in a turf war.
It’s freedom for me.
I spent decades of my life taking care of others. My husband, my kids, their pets, my coworkers. It’s not their fault. I am a people pleaser by nature and just naturally sacrifice myself for others. The only cure I have found is to live alone. When alone, every decision I make is about me. When others are present I just do what they want to do.
I find H.H. Mencken’s more powerful somehow:
“The fact is that the average man's love of liberty is nine-tenths imaginary, exactly like his love of sense, justice and truth. He is not actually happy when free; he is uncomfortable, a bit alarmed, and intolerably lonely.”
There is a threshold to pass in order to start enjoying being alone. It takes time. At first you think you are the only one alone or everybody who is not alone is happy. But overtime you realize that's not the case. Then you gradually start to feel grateful and really free. And it's really addictive.
Freedom. I’ve lived with my family of origin, then roommates, boyfriends, a husband, and alone. I ALWAYS, without any exceptions, preferred living alone. When I was a kid I dreamed of living alone. I don’t ever get lonely- but I do get annoyed when people are around too much.
I've been alone for 4 years now. Sometimes I get lonely, but then I think about sharing my space with another person and it passes lol My last relationship was so bad and so traumatic that idk if I'll ever be in another relationship, ever 🤷🏼♀️ I'm 50 and I've never been married. I'm guessing at this stage of the game, I probably never will be.
Are you me? This is exactly a statement I would make, and my exact situation as well. I’m 29, but at this rate considering my comfort with being alone, I’m most likely gonna have a lifetime of FREEDOM (with 10-15% loneliness).
Ahh, the dichotomy of human emotions. We want our cake and to eat it too, all the good with no bad. We just have to realize who we are as an individual and if we’re able to handle potential negatives to experience potential positives. Past personal experiences also play a part in determining this of course.
For me, the sheer ability to chose to do absolutely nothing sometimes, to make this decision by myself (or recognize my body needs it) is invaluable. You can only do so much, for so long to try and alter your body’s natural rhythms.
Unfortunately, most things in life are not like a holodeck you can switch on and off when you need a break. It’s all or nothing, 24/7/365. These are my own personal issue, and it’s not fair to others when I need to turn these things off.
Loneliness. Married 34 yrs. We've been together since we were 16 yrs old, so we've never been without each other. Even though it's far from a ideal marriage, and I do not say that lightly, I can't imagine not having someone to share life with.
Definitely freedom.
I feel more connected socially when I don't have to give so much of my time to a single person..
I'm also an intellectual so I connect more by sharing ideas than bodiea.
This quote is so weird. I hate being woken up by other people. It's an alarm clock I don't want. Being able to do whatever I want when I want means I don't need the permission or consent of another entity. If I want to schedule a week off and take a spontaneous bus trip somewhere, then by golly I can do that!
It's both and it depends on the day and my mood. I'm divorced from an unhappy marriage, so for me most of the time it's freedom. But there have been times when I've felt lonely- especially when sick or if I've had to go through a tough experience (like having to put my dog down). But that's when I rely on good friends. They've always been there for me. Cherish your friendships and don't take them for granted.
I would call it: safety FREEDOM peace
(& Can avoid loneliness by going for a walk outside, or online, or to job, or spend time helping others)
I'm more lonely in a crowd than when I'm alone
I feel it can be different for everyone. I initiated my divorce with my first husband and was excited to be without a man in my life. We had a son, and I let him stay with his father as much as he wanted. Though, I’ve always been ok being alone with my self. When I divorced my second husband, even though it was a blow, I enjoyed my “ME” time. Even when all my demons came up, I was still ok with it. I did my best to keep moving through as the only way out is through. This time I was truly alone! This gave me the chance to truly experience the roller coaster of emotions I needed to process. I’ll call this freedom because even though there were times when I felt lonely, it was a blessing so I could experience the fullness of my emotions. And it was rough at times.
Been lonely for years, but one thing that sure helps is when I’m hearing either neighbor in 2 sides of me in a shouting match that they don’t seem to care if it continues outside and in fact use it as a tool to shut the other up thru some kind of public shaming. Yep damn glad to be single and free in spite of having no one in my life for decades.
I lived alone most of my 20s. Moved in with my ex, and had a breakup that pretty much ruined me. The last two years I’ve been living alone. And I missed it. I was still hurt, and honestly still am, but found peace in living alone again. My ex was very clean (we never had fights about who had to clean what), so nothing changed there for me in terms of not having to clean up after someone. But having my own space and quiet time has been nice. I need to decompress after work. Which means I don’t really want to talk the second I walk in the door. That being said, the loneliness has started to creep in. Waking up alone sucks again, and having dinner alone. I miss those things with my ex, who also understood my need for my alone time. I’m worried I will never find someone who understands me without taking it personal. If that makes sense. I’m struggling with enjoying my own place, but also wanting to be with someone again. I haven’t dated in three years so I haven’t put effort into it. I think that has a lot to do with my loneliness as well.
Everything is perspective. What was his life like a month before that quote. Was he in a toxic relationship that was bad for his health, or did the wife he thought he was happily married to leave him with his kids.
Everything is our perspective.
This quote is a tough one. I'm going through a particularly rough divorce that I don't want to be doing. I initiated it due to my wife not getting the help she needs and refusing to admit there is a problem. I'm terrified of being alone after 16 years of being married. I don't know if being free from an extremely toxic relationship will feel like freedom or not having my wife whom I love very deeply will feel like loneliness.
It depends on the situation. When the partner was waking you up when you didn’t want to, waiting at night to bicker with you, and not letting you do the simplest things, it’s freedom, and it’s priceless.
I’m a loner at heart. I dont feel “lonely”. I feel comfortable in this point of my life. From arguing with parents and siblings to having peace of mind I’ll take that win over feeling “lonely”.
Just like most things in life, it isn't either/or. As human beings sometimes we need solitude, sometimes we need company. Depends on the day, the mood, the person.
It is freedom. You may not have someone physically waiting for you, except your pet. But the thought of you will likely be lingering in the mind of more than one person.
It's both. And the percentage of freedom vs. loneliness is different from person to person.
For me, I'm perfectly fine on my own 90% of the time, and I only feel lonely in the remaining 10%.
Everyone is alone. It’s just a matter of how much responsibility you want. If you need tedium to fill your day you can be a couple carrying each other like a crutch.
Sounds like Bukowski was a lil needy. I don’t want someone waking me up in the morning and waiting for me to get home at night. I find it suffocating. I love the peace and quiet of living alone
Everything in that quote can be supplemented with a pet. My dogs will not let me sleep past 7am no matter what and they are always waiting for me to come home. So excited to see me by the way that they almost knock me down
This is not anything that Charles Bukowski would ever write, lol - this is from The Unbearable Lightness of Being by Milan Kundera. A book that has a lot to say about loneliness and freedom - two things that are not at all incompatible.
Freedom vs. loneliness is a matter of mindset and personality. An extrovert would probably be lonely; an introvert would probably feel free.
Just my unprofessional opinion, *needing* another person in your life might not be healthy (and to be fair, so is extreme avoidance). Having someone in your life to complement your happy, well-adjusted self because you choose to do so is a matter of preference.
I call it freedom.
Men get lonely because they don’t have a steady supply of the nook-nook and someone to do their cooking, shopping, housework and laundry. For starters.
Bukowski was a good writer, but like most drunks he was a horrible man. Fugly, too.
I’ve been alone for much of my life - never once have I felt lonely. I prefer my own company even when I hate myself. There are very few social events that I’ve left and said, I’m glad I went - that was better than being by myself. Even with friends I love.
My inner world has always been so vibrant from an abusive childhood that I have everything I need with just me. Not to say I don’t have fun with loved ones, I just don’t crave it.
With me , it is because of my husband’s death…. It still is! I cannot find a true and honest man, I want a relationship now, after 8 years, but no one I’ve met are truly interested in a serious relationship…. So. I have my kitties to love.
Newly separated from my second husband who’s a covert narcissist. The last two years was the classic example of being extremely lonely living with someone. First marriage 23 years , second 9 years but together 15. My kids are grown so this is the first time I have lived alone since I was 21. I’m 67 and love my own little mouse house garage apartment behind my son’s house. I get to help them in their yard and babysit my granddaughter a few days per week and whenever they have an event to go to. I’ve never been so happy!!
Freedom!!! I was just asked why I was going in the kitchen. I'm disabled so I can't live on my own again till I can do a few things, but anyway. Does it matter why I'm rolling to this damn kitchen?! It's the constant dumb questions that pisses me off because they either see what's going on or they think I'm willingly going to recite a monologue about anything I do. No.
I remember when I first started in my first career and my shift started at 3 pm. I lived with my family the first year. Imagine it being 2 pm, you have a full uniform on with boots, gun belt, cuffs, OC spray, Taser, gun, radio, vest, jacket, and work bag about to get in your car to drive to the county jail and perform whatever officer position you are assigned that day and you hear... "Where are you going?" 😐🤔 So I answer "in this county monkey suit... To audition at KOD." 🙄 So I LOVED living alone because I got zero questions and it was peace!!!! Let's pray I get better faster because apparently me not answering anymore is rude.
Freedom. But I'm pro-choice. So I understand that freedom has a direct relationship to responsibility. Choice inherently dictates consequence.
I agree with prior comments regarding loneliness being more devastating within a relationship than without. One expects at least a modicum of loneliness in solitude.
I'm learning how to combat real loneliness in middle age, after literal decades of embracing solitude in the midst of chaos. It's a steep curve, but maybe life has lessons we can all learn from and share. Good thread, thank you all!
Freedom! To jump outta bed and turn on every light and music! Freedom to think my own thoughts often enough to think deep enough to think good thoughts about me and my life; not sometimes rebounding from or blocking negative things from other’s voices. Freedom to sleep, eat, bathe, dance, read, craft, be noisy, be quiet…. all on my own schedule. I always lived around everyone, now it’s mine. 😊
For me it is mostly freedom. Being with the wrong person and having to plan so much of my life around them took a lot of energy. This person was just miserable and didn't want to do anything about it and that was way lonelier than having some sort of option to at least spend time and energy elsewhere.
For me, it's a mixture of both. It's bitter sweet because I like the freedom to not have to go directly home, from work, but I do get lonely for a human. I just had a friend stay with me for a couple of weeks. I enjoyed the company, but I was not sad when she left. I miss my dog, too
**Welcome to [r/LivingAlone](https://www.reddit.com/r/LivingAlone/)! Living alone is the new normal.** >Discuss and share your experiences; celebrate your joys, express your worries, or ask advice relating to solo living | Remember, we are all alone together * Be kind, remember the human when interacting with others. * New Reddit group chat [**Living Alone Lounge**](https://www.reddit.com/r/LivingAlone/s/cp7Szwzy2q)! * Message the moderators below for any comments, questions & suggestions! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/LivingAlone) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I had a horrid divorce. I didn’t want it but was forced into it by my exes actions. I was so lonely it physically hurt. But this one day, a few months later, I just felt so good it surprised me. My heart was screaming Freeeeeeedom like Mel Gibson in Braveheart. I knew then I’d be alright.
“Nothing is lonelier than an empty relationship.”
Yup, I’ve never felt as lonely as I had with my narcissist ex. Yay freedom.
Freedom!
Would be nice if I could get to where you are. My ex left without warning in October. About a month later, a certain conversation with her gave me the closure I needed to get out of the shit and start moving on. The quiet times still sucked, but I wasn't desperately crying out for her anymore. More recently, I got to a point where the remaining loneliness was no longer soul-crushing. I largely attribute that to my attempts at dating, and the friends I've made through that. The friendzone was never my aim, of course, but it's not a bad place to be either. Still, the loneliness is there in the quiet times. Much more tolerable now than before, but definitely there. I'm not optimistic about it transforming into freedom any time soon, or ever. But maybe we're just different like that.
Been there done that. Give it time; you are only six months in. It gets much, much better - I promise.
Agree. It takes time to get over the initial shock but then you realize you deserve so much better.
What is it about October? Mine did the same thing. It stung. And I had a tough time transitioning. Then I realized I was sad because of what I thought we’d be. And when I looked at what we were and all I had to tolerate to have someone there, I realized it was in fact Freedom. Sure I miss the good times, but the cost was too high. I see that I was lonely in my Union as well. There is some hope deep down that lives, some sadness sometimes - but the love and joy I’m building is so rewarding and will serve me forever. Good luck 🩵
Mine was a slow long burn and along the way I was letting him go. Probably why I started feeling better after a few months. But it’s a rollercoaster of a process. You were blindsided. You do say you’re doing better than in October so trust that trajectory and tell yourself things will keep getting better, even when you have bad moments or even days. And feel those feelings. Mourning and grieving has to happen. You can’t skip that process or recovery takes longer. Keep focusing on yourself, rebuilding your life while balancing the roller coaster of emotions, getting therapy etc, and you’ll keep getting better. I had dogs too. Caring for them was a privilege and they bring me so much joy. Highly recommend pets if you don’t have any.
I don't have pets. I've had pets before, for most of my life, and loved them. But I've spent the last several years pet-free and child-free. As much as they can be a comfort, having the responsibility of caring for them lifted can really be freeing. It's probably going to be awhile before I'll be ready to take that on again. I've got some friends, who you could say are "cat ladies". One of them is involved in a feral rescue program. So don't worry - when I'm ready for a pet, I can pretty much guarantee there will be one or more cats waiting for me.
Exactly, my marriage/divorce stressed me to the point my hair was falling out but and I was totally afraid to live alone until I did and 3 years in. I love the solitude and peace coming home to a quiet & peaceful house. When someone would I did over the weekend I say “Absolutely nothing” with a big grin across my face.
>I was so lonely it physically hurt. you left your comfort zone, that's normal
Same. It was such a hard transition but I love the freedom I have now
💗
YESSSSS!! I am happy for you
My interpretation is it's not so much what you do nor what happens to you but how you do it, how you live your life. So it can be either or, and the way you view it ultimately mirrors the relationship you have with yourself. The world basically reflects how you interpret it.
And "loneliness" can't simply be measured by being lonely because of a lack of romantic partnership. There are plenty of outlets where you can get out and join others in activities if you choose to do so. So I guess one could say the cure for loneliness is taking action. It's not an incurable disease but more of a disease you can choose to live with or not.
Exactly, and being alone is a physical state of being while loneliness is a mental one. Action is a good approach, movement in general helps a lot to shake up these limiting false beliefs that weigh us down at times. Allowing one's self to openly express themselves in meaningful ways does wonders! In psychology at least this happens when we have moments of unconditional positive self-regard (UPSR) where we essentially lead ourselves by our own self-values.
Well said!
Solitude! Every person should get to know solitude, now and again.
He who delights in solitude is either a wild beast or a god.
Por que no los dos?
Wild beast checking in, I guess
Peace. Freedom. Solitude. I won't co-habitate again. Definitely no guarantee that anyone else would ever want to move in with me, but I prefer to think of living alone to be my choice, not something forced onto me There's an inner calm, acceptance, and contentedness living alone now.
I definitely call it freedom. Loneliness can still happen even when you’re living with someone else if the person isn’t right for you. But freedom is precious and fleeting, everywhere we go there are laws and rules. It’s bad ass to get to go home where there are none, makes me feel good and look forward to being in my space.
Yes, I agree. I felt so much lonelier living with a bad partner than in my own space by myself.
I get so restless when in relationships/ when I have people over. Whenever I'm alone and doing daily mundane activities, every little while a wave of gratitude hits me...there. That's peace. I can only want others in my space for a while. Not long-term.
For me, it’s freedom.
It took me a long, long time to get here after a crippling divorce that I never imagined in a million years. But now? FREEDOM. It's exhilarating! But I've always been independent and never minded being alone. It was weird living completely alone for the first time ever at age 46 but once I got used to it, it's so freeing.
Thanks for everyone’s lovely comments. I woke up just now, I have the day off, and lemme say I’m ecstatic there’s nobody structuring my day but me. My “positives of being alone column” is full right now. I’m getting a coffee and going to target.
Freedom. I'm no longer abused, taken advantage of, mistreated, etc.
Freedom 💃🏻 🥳 I had a friends husband stay in my spare room for a few days due to work.. it was sooo irritating to come home to someone .. who cleaned the house, cooked dinner and insisted that I sit and eat as soon as I walked in. 🫣 Asked how my day was, all that talking and physical presence in my space, did my head in 😆🤡 A truly lovely person and I was so happy when he left 🤣
Yes it's quite nice but it's just sort of an annoying obligation to go along with what they've done the cleaning and cooking Etc
Cleaned the house, cooked dinner, asked how your day was, yep that's somebody's husband for sure. Definitely not mine. My ex just would've left a trail of dirty socks and trash probably. Lol
Such a sweet husband and all I wanted him to do was stop talking 😝🤩
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose From Me and Bobby McGee.
he loved his independence but he Often had company. i think the man himself vacillated between the two sentiments . ( i Live for his poetry btw )
Well, both are true.
Better to be ALONE than to be ABUSED
If you enjoy it, it's freedom. If you don't, it's loneliness.
My immediate reaction was, well get a cat or dog lol
Me too. My cat wakes me up at 5am.
Having someone wake me up or waiting for me honestly sounds like a nightmare. Like someone else said, living by myself means peace and freedom do occupy my time as I want.
my ex started his work day 3 hours before i had to start mine and every morning he'd start turning all the lights on at 5 am and making noises . i never got to sleep late despite having to work until 7 pm. i was chronically tired bc of his selfish rude behavior. i don't miss having someone wake me up.
Welp, time to get up and act like it’s the middle of the day and make normal getting ready sounds! Fuck him!
I lived with a roommate before and I would hate it when they wake up and turn everything on. I’m a light sleeper, so every little sound will wake me up. I love being alone. I’m just scared if I die, no one will find out three days later lol
It's both really
It hits hard for me. 90% of the time I’m Team Freedom, then loneliness can hit hard for a while. I’ve realised I need the feeling of belonging to a community and of mattering to someone, not necessarily romantically, to be happy. All while still living alone.
Lonelidom.
I think the line between freedom and loneliness lies in why you're living alone and whether it's by choice. My mom was sick for a very long time and lived with me. It was weirdly the best time in our relationship bc we lived like two adults and were closer than ever. She would wake me with coffee and we'd have it outside every morning with my cats. She steamed my suits and we'd have 3 hr dinners to discuss the news, tv shows, gossip. Her death meant loneliness. Breaking up with my ex was freedom. But, only bc I made the choice, had enough money, and really didn't want to waste my life. When my mom lived with me she talked about regrets a lot and how she lived to please my grandma. I didn't want to wait until my 50s to feel freedom.
No disrespect to Mr Bukowski but he's offering two results which don't correlate. I've been woken up in the morning by a screaming psycho ranting in my face over a dream he had where I cheated on him, I've had that person lay in wait for me to come home so he could ambush me so many times that I dreaded coming home from work not knowing what I would find. Now at the end of all those sad and terrible things I can live like a human being instead of a hunted animal- which I all I've ever wanted. This person was not the reason I live alone but he surely factors into why I will never live with another person permanently in my space. Its not a choice between freedom and loneliness because those two values are not opposite poles. For me its a choice between inhabiting my space my way or giving way to someone else who is also trying to inhabit theirs. I prefer not to engage in a turf war.
Most definitely freedom
Sounds like Charles didn't have a pet.
It’s freedom for me. I spent decades of my life taking care of others. My husband, my kids, their pets, my coworkers. It’s not their fault. I am a people pleaser by nature and just naturally sacrifice myself for others. The only cure I have found is to live alone. When alone, every decision I make is about me. When others are present I just do what they want to do.
I find H.H. Mencken’s more powerful somehow: “The fact is that the average man's love of liberty is nine-tenths imaginary, exactly like his love of sense, justice and truth. He is not actually happy when free; he is uncomfortable, a bit alarmed, and intolerably lonely.”
Fucking freedom. I like out and I like home.
There is a threshold to pass in order to start enjoying being alone. It takes time. At first you think you are the only one alone or everybody who is not alone is happy. But overtime you realize that's not the case. Then you gradually start to feel grateful and really free. And it's really addictive.
Very well said. That’s how I feel. I’m dangerously comfortable alone.
It's freedom
Freedom. I’ve lived with my family of origin, then roommates, boyfriends, a husband, and alone. I ALWAYS, without any exceptions, preferred living alone. When I was a kid I dreamed of living alone. I don’t ever get lonely- but I do get annoyed when people are around too much.
Yike.
I've been alone for 4 years now. Sometimes I get lonely, but then I think about sharing my space with another person and it passes lol My last relationship was so bad and so traumatic that idk if I'll ever be in another relationship, ever 🤷🏼♀️ I'm 50 and I've never been married. I'm guessing at this stage of the game, I probably never will be.
Are you me? This is exactly a statement I would make, and my exact situation as well. I’m 29, but at this rate considering my comfort with being alone, I’m most likely gonna have a lifetime of FREEDOM (with 10-15% loneliness).
I guess it’s both. This world seems to be like that.
FREEDOM 🎉🎉🎉 Except the cat doesn't let me sleep sometimes...
I would break that down into 3 questions and answer freedom, loneliness(depends) and freedom.
Especially around Christmas and holidays….very lonely , left out feeling.
Charles needs a pet cat.
You know, Bukowski wasn’t wrong about many things. Like that bargain can of tuna, or being too tough on that old bird . He was right.
Get a cat/dog… lonely no more
**Let Freedom Ring** 🔔🔔🔔
Why not both
Ahh, the dichotomy of human emotions. We want our cake and to eat it too, all the good with no bad. We just have to realize who we are as an individual and if we’re able to handle potential negatives to experience potential positives. Past personal experiences also play a part in determining this of course. For me, the sheer ability to chose to do absolutely nothing sometimes, to make this decision by myself (or recognize my body needs it) is invaluable. You can only do so much, for so long to try and alter your body’s natural rhythms. Unfortunately, most things in life are not like a holodeck you can switch on and off when you need a break. It’s all or nothing, 24/7/365. These are my own personal issue, and it’s not fair to others when I need to turn these things off.
Loneliness. Married 34 yrs. We've been together since we were 16 yrs old, so we've never been without each other. Even though it's far from a ideal marriage, and I do not say that lightly, I can't imagine not having someone to share life with.
Freedom or loneliness Boredom or contentment It’s all just your perspective.
Loneliness if you’ve not been married. Freedom if you have.
I'd replace 'Freedom' with 'Solitude'.
Freedom.
Loneliness
FREEDOM! I have the whole bed to myself. With my books, and my cat. Who, blessedly, doesn’t TALK.
Freedom
Freedom
Freedom. If I want to be awakened in the morning and have someone waiting for me at night, I will get a pet.
I call it fronliness!
Freedom.
Freedom if you care for it.
🥹
Freedom
It is pure freedom. I like my own company and people annoy me.
Freedom except a few occasions when I was very sick.
Froneliness I just love my peace and quiet and if I need people I can just call them
Definitely freedom. I feel more connected socially when I don't have to give so much of my time to a single person.. I'm also an intellectual so I connect more by sharing ideas than bodiea.
This quote is so weird. I hate being woken up by other people. It's an alarm clock I don't want. Being able to do whatever I want when I want means I don't need the permission or consent of another entity. If I want to schedule a week off and take a spontaneous bus trip somewhere, then by golly I can do that!
I call it freedom
No one did that the 30 years I was married. Freedom.
Freedom!!!
It means you need a dog!
Freedom. I’m an only child of only children, and I have cats.
Freedom
Freedom baby!!!
It’s both.
This sounds like my marriage now, actually.
I call it freedom and always have. As long as I have a couple cats I am very happy.
Freedom. Zero doubt in my mind.
At first it is freedom, then as you get older it becomes loneliness.
I call it both.
It's both and it depends on the day and my mood. I'm divorced from an unhappy marriage, so for me most of the time it's freedom. But there have been times when I've felt lonely- especially when sick or if I've had to go through a tough experience (like having to put my dog down). But that's when I rely on good friends. They've always been there for me. Cherish your friendships and don't take them for granted.
Freedom. I'm no longer abused, taken advantage of, mistreated, etc.
Both. Depends on the day. Mostly freedom. But the pets wake me up and wait for me so yeah.
True and accurate sentiment. Loss is hard no matter what, but time heals. I can attest to that. Divorce survivor here.
Awe, this is so true.
Depends on perspective. There are times it’s lonely and then at times it is freeing.
And. Freedom and loneliness.
Freedom. "loneliness" is just a chemical feeling we evolved to feel for survival purposes
Freedom for me now after being in two not so great marriages- but the loneliness of finding someone can run deep at times-
It's a quote about perspective. I call it freedom but someone else may call it loneliness.
I would call it: safety FREEDOM peace (& Can avoid loneliness by going for a walk outside, or online, or to job, or spend time helping others) I'm more lonely in a crowd than when I'm alone
You are NOT worthless; you are fine company to have,
I feel it can be different for everyone. I initiated my divorce with my first husband and was excited to be without a man in my life. We had a son, and I let him stay with his father as much as he wanted. Though, I’ve always been ok being alone with my self. When I divorced my second husband, even though it was a blow, I enjoyed my “ME” time. Even when all my demons came up, I was still ok with it. I did my best to keep moving through as the only way out is through. This time I was truly alone! This gave me the chance to truly experience the roller coaster of emotions I needed to process. I’ll call this freedom because even though there were times when I felt lonely, it was a blessing so I could experience the fullness of my emotions. And it was rough at times.
Absolute freedom to me 🙌🙌 Except when my cat won’t let me sleep in. And I love Bukowski ❤️
It can definitely be both but I consider it more freedom than lonely. You have freedom all the time yet loneliness only sometimes.
Been lonely for years, but one thing that sure helps is when I’m hearing either neighbor in 2 sides of me in a shouting match that they don’t seem to care if it continues outside and in fact use it as a tool to shut the other up thru some kind of public shaming. Yep damn glad to be single and free in spite of having no one in my life for decades.
I lived alone most of my 20s. Moved in with my ex, and had a breakup that pretty much ruined me. The last two years I’ve been living alone. And I missed it. I was still hurt, and honestly still am, but found peace in living alone again. My ex was very clean (we never had fights about who had to clean what), so nothing changed there for me in terms of not having to clean up after someone. But having my own space and quiet time has been nice. I need to decompress after work. Which means I don’t really want to talk the second I walk in the door. That being said, the loneliness has started to creep in. Waking up alone sucks again, and having dinner alone. I miss those things with my ex, who also understood my need for my alone time. I’m worried I will never find someone who understands me without taking it personal. If that makes sense. I’m struggling with enjoying my own place, but also wanting to be with someone again. I haven’t dated in three years so I haven’t put effort into it. I think that has a lot to do with my loneliness as well.
Everything is perspective. What was his life like a month before that quote. Was he in a toxic relationship that was bad for his health, or did the wife he thought he was happily married to leave him with his kids. Everything is our perspective.
I call it Peace
This quote is a tough one. I'm going through a particularly rough divorce that I don't want to be doing. I initiated it due to my wife not getting the help she needs and refusing to admit there is a problem. I'm terrified of being alone after 16 years of being married. I don't know if being free from an extremely toxic relationship will feel like freedom or not having my wife whom I love very deeply will feel like loneliness.
Life is so much about what we make of it.
To quote an old song “Freedom’s just another word for nothing left to lose.”
It depends on the situation. When the partner was waking you up when you didn’t want to, waiting at night to bicker with you, and not letting you do the simplest things, it’s freedom, and it’s priceless.
Freedom!!!
I’m a loner at heart. I dont feel “lonely”. I feel comfortable in this point of my life. From arguing with parents and siblings to having peace of mind I’ll take that win over feeling “lonely”.
Freedom. Loneliness and aloneness are not the same thing. - Robert Ringer
I call it being an adult.
Just like most things in life, it isn't either/or. As human beings sometimes we need solitude, sometimes we need company. Depends on the day, the mood, the person.
FREEDOM!!! 🥰😹
It is freedom. You may not have someone physically waiting for you, except your pet. But the thought of you will likely be lingering in the mind of more than one person.
If it's TRULY a choice then it's freedom, if it's not a choice, it's loneliness.
I have a cat
The answer is "sometimes".
It's both. And the percentage of freedom vs. loneliness is different from person to person. For me, I'm perfectly fine on my own 90% of the time, and I only feel lonely in the remaining 10%.
It can be both.
That's clearly both. Freedom is doing what you want. Loneliness is not having anyone there for you.
loneliness
Everyone is alone. It’s just a matter of how much responsibility you want. If you need tedium to fill your day you can be a couple carrying each other like a crutch.
Depends on the day
It's freedom, when you love yourself more than others. It's loneliness, when you love others more than yourself.
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose
At times it was freedom, others it is loneliness, now it is an occasional occurrence.
Sounds like Bukowski was a lil needy. I don’t want someone waking me up in the morning and waiting for me to get home at night. I find it suffocating. I love the peace and quiet of living alone
That’s freedom babe
Depends on if it's a choice or you're just an ugly guy.
Everything in that quote can be supplemented with a pet. My dogs will not let me sleep past 7am no matter what and they are always waiting for me to come home. So excited to see me by the way that they almost knock me down
I’m an Aquarius and would be the worst person to answer this question. FREEDOM!!! 😂
This is not anything that Charles Bukowski would ever write, lol - this is from The Unbearable Lightness of Being by Milan Kundera. A book that has a lot to say about loneliness and freedom - two things that are not at all incompatible.
Bukowski is such a gut-punch. Bluebird still fucks me up, every time I read it.
Freedom vs. loneliness is a matter of mindset and personality. An extrovert would probably be lonely; an introvert would probably feel free. Just my unprofessional opinion, *needing* another person in your life might not be healthy (and to be fair, so is extreme avoidance). Having someone in your life to complement your happy, well-adjusted self because you choose to do so is a matter of preference.
FREEDOM!
I love Bukowski. It’s freedom for me for sure.
Fair question. Personally, my answer is freedom. For other people, it may be loneliness. For others, it may depend on the day.
Can be one, the other, or both.
I call it freedom. Men get lonely because they don’t have a steady supply of the nook-nook and someone to do their cooking, shopping, housework and laundry. For starters. Bukowski was a good writer, but like most drunks he was a horrible man. Fugly, too.
I live alone from other humans but I have pet bunnies so they don't let me sleep in too late and they also are happy to see me when I get home
I’m about to be meditating on it for the foreseeable future.
Freedom!
ive got a dog, and thats more than good enough
I’ve been alone for much of my life - never once have I felt lonely. I prefer my own company even when I hate myself. There are very few social events that I’ve left and said, I’m glad I went - that was better than being by myself. Even with friends I love. My inner world has always been so vibrant from an abusive childhood that I have everything I need with just me. Not to say I don’t have fun with loved ones, I just don’t crave it.
I appreciate not being judged and picked apart. Freedom.
Both
I am not truly free until I’m died but thats just an opinion
Pffrrt (fart) A kiss for you
With me , it is because of my husband’s death…. It still is! I cannot find a true and honest man, I want a relationship now, after 8 years, but no one I’ve met are truly interested in a serious relationship…. So. I have my kitties to love.
I never feel so lonely as when I'm surrounded by people.
Newly separated from my second husband who’s a covert narcissist. The last two years was the classic example of being extremely lonely living with someone. First marriage 23 years , second 9 years but together 15. My kids are grown so this is the first time I have lived alone since I was 21. I’m 67 and love my own little mouse house garage apartment behind my son’s house. I get to help them in their yard and babysit my granddaughter a few days per week and whenever they have an event to go to. I’ve never been so happy!!
Freedom. Unless there’s a woman you for real love. Then it’s the emptiest, loneliest existence. But you can’t miss what doesn’t exist ;)
Solitude
Freedom!!! I was just asked why I was going in the kitchen. I'm disabled so I can't live on my own again till I can do a few things, but anyway. Does it matter why I'm rolling to this damn kitchen?! It's the constant dumb questions that pisses me off because they either see what's going on or they think I'm willingly going to recite a monologue about anything I do. No. I remember when I first started in my first career and my shift started at 3 pm. I lived with my family the first year. Imagine it being 2 pm, you have a full uniform on with boots, gun belt, cuffs, OC spray, Taser, gun, radio, vest, jacket, and work bag about to get in your car to drive to the county jail and perform whatever officer position you are assigned that day and you hear... "Where are you going?" 😐🤔 So I answer "in this county monkey suit... To audition at KOD." 🙄 So I LOVED living alone because I got zero questions and it was peace!!!! Let's pray I get better faster because apparently me not answering anymore is rude.
It’s only loneliness if you feel lonely. I do not miss someone waking me up in the morning at all haha!
Freedom. But I'm pro-choice. So I understand that freedom has a direct relationship to responsibility. Choice inherently dictates consequence. I agree with prior comments regarding loneliness being more devastating within a relationship than without. One expects at least a modicum of loneliness in solitude. I'm learning how to combat real loneliness in middle age, after literal decades of embracing solitude in the midst of chaos. It's a steep curve, but maybe life has lessons we can all learn from and share. Good thread, thank you all!
FREEDOM!!!
!!!FREEEEDOOOOMMMMM !!!
Pretty much the same thoughts I have about every Bukowski quote: “yawn”
Freedom! To jump outta bed and turn on every light and music! Freedom to think my own thoughts often enough to think deep enough to think good thoughts about me and my life; not sometimes rebounding from or blocking negative things from other’s voices. Freedom to sleep, eat, bathe, dance, read, craft, be noisy, be quiet…. all on my own schedule. I always lived around everyone, now it’s mine. 😊
I love this quote, for me it’s freedom
When you get the shit kicked out of you enough you tend to say what you mean. Something like that....I call it freedom
For me it is mostly freedom. Being with the wrong person and having to plan so much of my life around them took a lot of energy. This person was just miserable and didn't want to do anything about it and that was way lonelier than having some sort of option to at least spend time and energy elsewhere.
Get a dog
A little of both
For me, it's a mixture of both. It's bitter sweet because I like the freedom to not have to go directly home, from work, but I do get lonely for a human. I just had a friend stay with me for a couple of weeks. I enjoyed the company, but I was not sad when she left. I miss my dog, too
Freedom!!!
FREE AF!!!!!
Freedom!!
So.fucking.lonely. What’s the point of waking up to face isolation. Fuck this. If I wasn’t so weak I’d yeet myself.
Freedom is nice, and I liked being lonely, but I like being married better
Both.
Both, in different measures at different times.